Posted by develangel on the Autoworld forums.
I was in a taxi, two days ago, at night. The taxi was from Sunlight with ID No. 12XX (in case you think I fabricated this). The taxi driver was a Indian/Malay man.
We got to talking about the traffic, which route to take and etc. There is a rather annoying sound coming from the car, a whirring and revving sound far louder than normal. I saw that his speedometer is not moving. He proceeded to explain “Hey, sorry ah sir. My car is very noisy. This “eng, eng, eng whrrrr” is very irritating one. The cable for the speedometer lah. It is broken already.” The speedometer cable attached to the car is broken. It is still spinning but the speedo indicator is stationary.
And he went on to say, he drove a cab for 11 years already. Then I asked, “Is Proton a good car?” He replied “Proton is cheap to maintain.” The speedometer cable, is RM10.00 for one, and installation is RM8.00. He asked me, “Do you know how many times I have to change the cable for the last 5 years?” I said I don’t know. He said “10 times!!” Oh my goodness.
He was driving a Toyota Corrola as his taxi before the damn Govt changed its policy and made it compulsory for all cabs to be the national junk. He said, he drove the Corrola for 6 years and he said, he didn’t have to change the cable at all. But, he did it once, because at the end of the 6 years, the cable was a little thin, so he changed it voluntarily. Cost, RM30.00. Then he said “Proton cheap ah? 5 years change 10 times. 10 times RM18.00 is how much already? The Toyota need to change 1 time only! And the cable, not even broken! I change because it is Halus already!” Man, what the ***** is proton doing?
He said that people keep buying protons because most people have no choice. If you look at a normal guy, earning around RM2000.00 a month, he cannot afford a Toyota, Honda when the monthly instalment payment is RM1000.00 per month. He is forced to buy a Proton because the monthly instalment is only RM500.00 or so a month, be it a Wira, Iswara or whatever. If he buys a Toyota, he cannot survive with RM1000.00 per month considering his wife, girlfriend or whatever. He concluded, if he has money, he will NEVER buy a Proton, not even a Gen.2. I just listened.
As I got nearer to my house, he continued to talk about Proton. 5 years ago, 2 weeks after he got delivery of his taxi, Proton Iswara from EON, the gear would not shift into 2nd (manual car). He got bloody pissed and went back to EON SC. The guys there changed his gearbox oil and serviced the gearbox. Gave him a bill for RM50.00. He screwed the ***** at the SC and said “OI! You gilakah? I baru ambil kereta 2 minggu, bukan dalam warranti kah???!!! You bagi bill kepada saya punya boss. I tak akan bayar!” Warranty was for 3 years, apparently does not cover gearbox oil replacement due to gearbox problem caused by manufacturer fault. “I told the people there, give the bill to my boss, I won’t pay! What warranty? All bohong punya. Government bluff people only.”
Well, I got to my house. I paid him some tips and got off.
As you can read, this IS a true account of a real everday malaysian, using a Proton Iswara. A man, making ends meet with his taxi, live or die with his taxi. Makes you wana ditch that piece of shite called Proton and walk right?
Proton owners, anything to say? I am sure your loyalty is undying and completely bomb proof. Kinda silly ain’t it?
After dabbling for years in the IT industry, Paul Tan initially began this site as a general blog covering various topics of personal interest. With an increasing number of readers paying rapt attention to the motoring stories, one thing led to another and the rest, as they say, is history. An avid electronic gadget aficionado as well as big-time coffee lover, he's also the executive producer of the Driven motoring TV programme.
yeah, that uncle taxi was right on Proton.
if you can afford, just take honda or toyota. though the one time service is kinda expensive, but least, it's realiable
just my 2 cent
peace!
Yeah we all know how Proton's like. Anyways like you guys said, when there's enough money don't buy Proton.
Seen the way they treat customer's cars in EON in Glen Marie, saw two mechanics taking it for a spin and almost had a head on collision. I'm like "WTF?!?!" The manager had the nerve to say it's normal!!
Al least nothing happened. A few years ago, my friend’ sent his 2 week old wira aeroback and the mechanics actually crashed the car somewhere. My friend insisted on a new car but end of the day free repair only.
We all should burn down both the proton factories in Tangjung Malim & Shah Alam as well. I just can't see the Mahaleel keparat face. A face that you want to slap right away.
hahahahaahahah..
oh proton 20 years already past….. quality zerooo.
Proton cars…the quality is cheaper than its price…..
I drive a proton wira myself. 2 years down the road, all sorts of farking sound is coming out from the engine. And it's getting louder everyday. Would definitely sell off and get an imported brand in a year or so. Proton……. you damn loosers lah. Sponsoring Norwich city konon.
yeah!i fully agree of what the taxi driver said and all the comments posted by all fellows frens. I just bought a satria special edition 1.3M, the first day i took the car from the show room, very unlucky i found that the car audio cant function properly, and some more my car steering senget a bit (camber problem kua….or may b alignment).i asked the eon sales person about the audio problem, do u know wat the F**King sales representative told me?he asked me to change the audio system at the normal accesorries shop as he said:"just change the thing lar, if u want the good quality one, just buy imported car lah!" what the f**K!how dare he talked like this to customer, especially those local made car supporter like me!!! in addition, talking about my steering, that f**king sales man asked me to go to eon sc to fix it.just imagine that how u r gonna to drive a new car where the steering is senget one!!!!f**k!!the worst thing is, when i drove my car to eon sc, they help me to fix it, but they charged me for RM100 for camber adjustment!!!in my opinion, dont care eon or proton edar, all the same!!low quality in service, low efficiency, but high price!!!!what i want to summarize here is that i am deeply disapointed with malaysia local made car dealer/ sc, malaysia boleh?konon!!! f**k!!!
i 200% agree with all of above, proton car and perodua very low quality my brother last time want to buy kancil but the salesman is very good one (bcause he is myfather good friend) told we wait for 3rd or 4th bacth, you know mah when new car buy a new one 24hr masuk kilang balik…
same thing when change to V6 must wait for later bacth but still have little problem.
Came out of the Seremban Commuter Train. Got into an Iswara Teksi. The taxi driver said, this is a good car, very robust, good space, large booth. I have used it for a year and has travel to as far as Johor Bahru and Kedah (now almost 90,000 km). No problems at all. The price of Iswara is cheaper for teksi owners to buy. This is my own car. Moral side of story… sometimes you get bad apple. I told the teksi driver I use to own an Iswara for 7 years… trouble free… only change engine oil and filter…. not even the gear oil.
I have owned 3 Proton cars consecutively over a period of twenty years, surprisingly the one that gave the least problem was the 1st one, that was a proton saga 1.3S, as Proton grows into adulthood (20 yr old) the quality gets worse..
My last Proton car was an Iswara 1.3 Aeroback full Spec. 2004 model. I just sold it off cheap (losing RM 12K) one week ago, the reason ? I cannot stand it anymore !!! because I have to send the car back to Proton Edar for fixing defective part many times .. lost count how many times already.
Among the problems:
Squeeking noise
Plastic trimming dropped off
Dash board vibrating when idle.
Power windows died
Air con switch died
Hand brake lever died.
Battery Died
Alternator died
To rub salt into injury, the Mechanics at the Proton Edar service center said to me "BIASA LAH INI PROTON !!"
Each time I sent my car bak to Proton Edar to fix the problem, they said "Sekarang tak ada spare part lah, ini kena order" and I have to send the car back a few days later to fix the problem.
I do not know about the quality of other Proton models, to those of you who is interested in Proton Iswara, BEWARE !!! You buy at the risk of having mental torture of having to deal with the stupid problems.
//seebau
I own a wira 1.5 auto year 2002. It is my first proton. So far no problem. Maybe it is just luck.
I drive a 13 year old Proton Saga… extremely reliable, never had any sort of problems… except for the alarm system, so we disabled it… maybe my usage is very low compared to City Taxi.
I just bought Savvy 2 months ago.Recently the air-cond is not functioning. Dont tell me a new car can give aircond problem.I think proton have to improve, then only we can say 'malaysia boleh'.Sorry for malaysia cars
i,ve being driving iswara 1.3 manual for 6 years now.it's O.K. low fuel consumption and low price spareparts( don,t go to proton servicelah).
Happy driving..bye
Find some of your comments rather amusing. I've been driving a 20-year-old Proton Saga 1.5 for almost two years now. I detest the car at first coz’ it is a manual car and does not have power steering but gradually learns to love it. It's beginning to give me problems and everyone is asking me to sell it. I wanted to but I find the current Proton models rather unsightly. Someone mentioned earlier that without enough dough, one would be forced to get a locally made car. Unfortunately, I fall in the same category. Any suggestions on what car to buy?
Saya pernah bawa teksi Iswara. Memang speedometer nya senang putus sebab cable speedometer kereta Iswara ini tak tahan kalau kita reverse jauh2 sikit. Setiap kali saya hantar passenger yang rumahnya terletak dalam lorong yang agak sempit, saya kena reverse keluar balik, masa tu lah cable nya akan putus. Percaya tak, saya pernah ganti 3 cable dalam masa 2 minggu. Mula2 suruh mekanik, lama2 saya pandai buat sendiri.
Bad apple? It's a by-product of poor quality control. Period.
I bought my Iswara Aeroback in April 1997, full speck 38K. Very low maintenance …. less than RM100 for normal service (lubrican shell helix, oil filter, air filter, spark plug, transmission oil). Spare parts easy to find engine very reliable, just follow service mantenance handbook. The alarm still work, but the power window out of order, wireing problem. Squeek noise from back seat can be eliminate using loy tape, just wrap the metal lock 2 or 3 times. Up hill pick-up not so good untill I install SURBO… well it cost me RM170 for extra RPM. Maybe it is just luck.
Proton????? what a pity, malaysian including me have to put up with a very poor quality cars. Now only they start to panic as they are losing more and more every year. they should have think about improving their product years ago. I'm as a malaysian is very disappointed and ashamed of Proton. People just get smarter and start to realise the price of buying cheap car like proton (not so cheap actually compare to the quality) and maintaining such a s**t car is the same of buying imported car. the government keep on capaining for us to buy malaysian product, jow can we support such low quality product. improve the quality and lower the price, and i believe malaysian will start supporting our product.
haiz to make a cheap and good quality car is not easy dont just simply say.you know research cost more then 500million then not all people pay the car monthly installment imagine the losest there.you think japanese make car is cheaper at japan you are truely wrong you want to know i suggest go read a book about buisness.
Actually the matter is not coming from the proton manufacturing, its coming from the vendor. If vendor supply a good quality parts, then matter will not be happen, so dont blame proton b4 u know the situation..
the proton should accept the high quality vendor and NOT a junk vendor!
understand!
Develangle is talking about a TAXI and is using ONE taxi to make a generalised statement. Not vey good for statisticians.They are high milage and badly maintained, especially if the taxi is rented. The driver don’t care about the condition, as long as it is running he will use it for 10 hours or so and return the taxi. To be fair there are also many Saga taxi which is well maintained and in good condition.
my last Iswara engine last month, used for years from 1993 to 2009….now i used cyclone 12 valve engine (beli at kedai potong)
whatever is old engine much better than now cos the originality.
If vendor is not good,why Proton not search the other vendor?
I drive a gen 2 in uk no problems at all cheap to run other people with Ford or German cars have more problems. Know of a taxi driver who had a Wira and did over 250,000miles no major probs. Under-rated I think.
saya baru buy proton iswara 1.3 dlam julai 2008 yang lalu..
2nd laa..dpt murah..engine bagus..senyap je..tapi dalam senyap 2,3 bulan lepas tu kipas aircond wat hal..rosak terus, kesan sini cari part kat kadai potong..nasib ada..kena pasang sendiri plaktu..mmm..pastu smpai skrg okla..xdepe masalh lg..xtau plak lpsni..satu je lagi maslah..knp minyak kuat? mmm..asik tuang minyak je keje..ape problem ek?
Just watch 5th gear 08JUN2009 episode, they review the Proton 1.5SE triplevalve, (Its Proton Saga 1.5I Megavalve here) and the presenter likes it. Maybe this blig host could place a link to that video?
i'm driving proton iswara model 1993, bought 2nd hand.
on 2009 i do newly paint, change engine, new rims….now just do maintain some little problem…so far this car is good for….easy to handle. not much major problem…but cost i spend for this car in year 11 Jan 2008 to 11 Jun 2009 its RM8832.40 sen….wow!!!
renegade said,
June 2, 2009 @ 3:40 pm
If vendor is not good,why Proton not search the other vendor?
———————–
we all know proton is forced to use these low quality vendors. syed zainal is having a hard time trying to reduce this. if only he has full authority to reject them.
saya ada iswara 1.5 model tahun 1993(2nd),so far minyak jimat ,gearbox ok,tp power window pandai buat hal,meter minyak kadang ok kadang tidak,pintu driver dari dalam rosak…engin ok(engin mitsubishi),tp dalaman 2 tidak…sory proton bukan saya tak support tp mcmna..kualiti tak ada kalo ada niat nak beli kereta lain kali?i prefer buy import,tak kisah la 1st ka 2nd..janji berkualiti
Simple as it is… Proton Sucks Big Time… owned a Gen2… 8 consecutive weeks back to the SC in 1st 2 months… blady power window…
after 6 months… engine starts squeeking and rumbling… mechanics knows s%#t… look here look there and got nothing done. some people called it Feng Shui car… Feng means wind… cause you can feel winds blowing in the car even when all windows shut… Shui means water… cause you will start seeing water goes in from here and there… Bad or Good Feng Shui… you imagine… cheapest of 1.6… definitely the cheapest quality too… proton will be out of my choice of my next new car. Rather go for the korean if can't afford the japanese.. now selling the car is also worst and cheapest…
First started using proton saga in 1989. No problem.
2nd car – proton iswara sedan 1995 – noticed quality not as good but still manageable
3rd car – proton wira SE – disastrous. From water seeping into car during rain and car wash, power window not functioning, central locking works only as and when it likes to numerous engine problem, I swear this will be the last proton for me. Still can't afford to change to another car yet because the resale value is sooo.. bad that after paying for about 5 years, the resale value cannot cover my loan amount. What a shame!
Second hand value of Myvi and Kelisa much better than Proton.
Buck up Proton !! Just because we cannot afford a more expensive car doesnt mean we have to put up with inferior quality.
I just retired my Wire of 15 years old (bought in late 95).
anyway, my experience
1. simple car, has 4 wheels + a steering. Easy to maintain as mentioned by the taxi drive.
2. took advise from my foreman – never fail to change the engine oil and filter every 5000km. Luck on my side, it has work pretty well and only have to call a toll truck once in 15 years.
failure accounts:
1. fail on the road – 1x (no joke). Top radiator cover cracked. Changed the radiator cover at bottom before it totally failed. Still ori radiator.
2. speedometer cable – 1x
3. other gauges fail – temp, speedometer (the speed meter itself), oil (so, basically, all gauges has given up)
4. AC compressor – still running.
5. AC coil – 3x or 4x, forgot
6. AC fan – 1x, still running but change before fail
7. Alternator – 1x
8. power windor – 2 or 3x each side
9. Engine fan – 1x, still running but change before fail
10. Engine itself – start to "eat" engine oil a bit, but overall still running well.
11. Clutch system – 1x
12. Brake system (pump system) – 1x
13. Gear system – no trouble so far. Oil change every 15,000km.
14. Paint – 2x. Because of rusting. This one really sucks!
15. teething sound – surprisingly little to complaint
16. Automatic rear winshield sunshade – failed after few years. Didn't bother to replace.
17. Air bag – never fail. Dont have any actually.
18. ABS – never fail also.
19. Stereo system – still running
20. timing belt – every 70,000km.
Total mileage = 300,000km.
In summary, if u are looking for a dependable car, this "could be" your answer. But in Quality Assurance, those that can consistently deliver good product wins. This is an area that Proton has not been very convincing…the challenge will not be easy, just look at how Toyota has messed up their rapport built over all these years.
Forgot to mention,
I am not saying Proton is a great car company.
When u deal with inconsistency in quality, what it means in layman term is u need to have luck on your side.
So the question is, how many of the 1st time Proton buyer will go back for second?
Before the luck runs out.
and last note..
this car is for sale.
has 2 new front tyre that was 1 month old.
Anyone interested?
Got my 2003 Proton Iswara SE 2nd hand..
1st time got the car..fuse wasnt working..my headlamp, rear lamp and also reverse lamp all not working..and i found out during night time..wth..tat was dangerous driving without light and rush back home..when to the seller they fix it for me FOC by replacing other iswara fuse to my car..so 1. Light Fuse..
So, the next thing i realized is that when i was idle and with my aircond on, then engine start to vibrate like crazy and is like its going to died soon..so soon find out it was the aircond control faulty.. 2. Aircond Control..
Juz after few weeks, i heard some noise coming out from the front engine..something like “something hitting on something” so i went to ask mechanic..found out it was from the radiator fan motor..damn it..didnt know fan motor can make sound like this..he suggested me to change to half cut..so i agree..he modded a denso radiator fan motor from a toyota car to mine..work 100% fine without noise..and the same day my aircond fan motor broke down too..fuk..replace it too..3. Radiator fan motor and AC fan motor..
Next thing is this stupid Exhaust..noisy like shit..cant even listen to my music..change it to silent ori type..change to CD player too..original player is shit anyway..”proton wat the hell u think we live in cave ah? Cassette player??”
Next, engine eat engine oil like mad..within a month half of it gone – -” and even once one of my spark plug fail to spark due to oily surface..rush back home and the car sound like have a shotgun boom boom boom all the way back..call mech for help..so it was the valve seal broken..replace all..and cost me RM500+ wat the fuk..
then wiper arm fail to hold on tight..change the arm i think..$$ gone..Sound “kon kon kon” when going over humps..mech said is the join rubber wear off..change tat too..now central lock sometimes working sometimes not, power window going to kong soon..meter kong..it wont hold still, at 1st thought was the cable, change it problem still exist..so it was the meter..not changing..cost a bomb..RM1XX and its a shit meter anyway..even a 1980s Mitsubishi meter still kicking and running..what a shame on proton..Quality like crap..yet still cost like shit..pretty more problem..squeaking sound is the most unbearable..i guess gonna stick with this shit for awhile cuz resale value like 0..so cant cover my loan..
From wat i see here..is a shame though..we Malaysian, still stuck with a car tat is running on Carb engine from 80s? which i think in US and rest of the world wont cost a cent? And yet we still have to pay like 14k for a shit juz to get to work and goes around..and wit this quality i think i will be fixing this shit for some time..
its been 6 years since the first comment on this page. Many things had change since, but proton still remain fucking useless shit.
so many complaint and dissatisfied about proton’s car..thou its a good info, its just make me ashame of proton that we all know so-called national car-bullshit..been 20++ years and nothing changes..i always thought if i’m going to buy a car, its like i have no choices other than proton (if u ask me bout money-affordable)..sighhh…
my father have a ’96 Saga. still kicking and running although now its just 4 tires and a steering…lol….seems dependable if ur just go here and there. go hantr bini keje…anyhow…now he’s using 2005 Waja…now end up in workshop due to the whole engine fall apart. why? because my father forgot to seal off the radiator….
1 or 2 days later, cannot start anymore. so send to workshop, pomen said need to change new engine that costs 6K….now already changed but still stuck in the shit hole because of wiring-or-some-shit problem…sighhhhh again…
its just give me real trauma on proton’s car…
can anyone tell me will this proton-shit will be over?
I’m still using my iswara with no major problems….
My Iswara A/B is a 1999 model, way before the “Kereta Kebal” model. The car is a hand-me-down from my mom. Well I can’t say it has been fun, but this car got me home every time without fail for the past 7 years, even once with faulty clutch at night from yong peng all the way to seremban. Just repaint it last week, with 340k++ mileage (with more to go hopefully), still going strong. It is a workhorse though, not a show horse…..
Hi
just had a fault with my 1999 persona but this is the first time it has let me down in 3 years ownership. I am in England and free to buy whatever I can afford, and yes it is not as good as the Japanese cars I had before but it seems just as good if not better than most other cars available (European or American). and because it does not cost as much I am very happy
Lol… all the comments are really soo… violent… lol…
My LMST only give me 3 problem… compressor kong, RM600++ for recon compressor. radiator fan motor must ketuk then only jalan RM150… and that squeaky annoying noise… 100k km already… no major overhauls… 5 years old… Still young i guess… TOUCH WOOD!
im dissappointed with the compressor… haizzz…
my father proton dah masuk 20 tahun…everything still fine…cuma dah sampai masa untuk top overhaul….dah karat sana sini but can be easily repair ….I love the spacious of proton saga…even Vios not so spacious…. body can be refurbished at around 2-3 K price tag with new paint…top overhaul its just around RM 800…what the taxi driver said its nasib tak baik laa…not all proton is like that…he crazy..if proton not cheaper to maintain why use proton for taxi? becoz its still cheap…easily maintain,fuel economy and its engine its realiable…banyak cakap laa…becoz he so boring drive a proton for taxi…
I’m using ’99 iswara aeroback 1.5 Auto till now.. so far no major problems, last time when I use 4G15, the engine worked perfectly. Have no major issue with the engine. The auto gearbox is a major drawback somehow, it only have 3 speeds. One of the alternative is try to get a 4G91 carburetor auto gearbox which have 4 speeds. The power window has been working without fault.The power window switch for the auto model is on the door panel, and I have no issue even though it’s been exposed to rain water.
The car never broke down even once.. I follow the mantainence schedule strictly and never got late. I check the engine weekly to see if there is any fluid coming out.. the power steering got no problems, I haven’t changed any components for the power steering.
After I’m bored with 1.5 Auto, I changed the engine to 4g93 with manual tranny, and there is where the problem started.. hehe..
well, to conclude my review, what I can say is, iswara is a good car for low budget people and students.. It is easy to mantain (got lots of spare parts), have good gas milage, a big boot space, and quite safe compared to kancil (but don’t go more than 140kph if you don’t have the proper upgrades, it’s still a flying coffin)..
Owned a Proton Wira 1.5 auto 2005. Gearbox failed twice. RM900 for first replacement and RM1500 for second as the mechanic told me that the gearbox price has gone up. Throttle body also failed twice. Heard that the first Wira injection model (1999-2003) using the Mitsi’s TB having this problem. Proton didn’t bother to fix it and yet changed to Siemen’s to all Wira’s from 2004 onwards. Brake discs jammed twice and both event happened during Raya festival. Engine oil leaking, white smoke, high temperature when climbing (mechanic could not solved it-radiator changed, water pump changed, top-overhauled, gasket changed, temp sensor and dash temp meter changed). I am just waiting for the right time to trade this Proton. This will be my first and last Proton!!!!!
Hahaha…. I was looking for replacement part no. for my so-call Saga2 4G13, come to this side, then decided to spit something….
Bought this car in 2004, because of 4G13 reliability, this junky accompany me travel north, south and central. Now rated 400K and still going.
So many part was changed until I know how to DIY.
1. Oil change, piece of cake. Problem is, you have to keep a full 4liter of used oil then pass to you mech, sure they will like it as they send the used oil for recycle where they can get cash.
2. Absorber, local kayaba and APM is good, but not our road condition. Every year I have to change full set.
3. Wheel bearing, this one need help from metal / mech shop to pump out the bearing. Guess what, I noticed the manufacturing plant just simply grease it, despite the proper way is u must use you hand and rub the bearing with grease lot of time to make sure the grease went into the bearing.
4. Front disc pad, I love this part.
5. Flush brake system, need a fren to help you pump the brake to make sure no air trap inside.
6. Radiator part changing. Proton famous defect! Change until I dulan and modify Toyota motor into it.
7. Hazard light console. The hazard light switch always fail me. Well, screw it and mod it to another independent switch. Damn sad.
8. Water leaking! Hahaha… trace until I dulan, simply use silicon for construction to seal it.
9. Fogging in tail lamp. Drill a hole on the bottom of the lamp seems to be the ultimate solution.
10. Mo**** F***k** proton replace the air cond compressor to a cheaper and smaller one. Didn’t know that until I do some research online. No wonder it was so warm when trap in jam compare to my mother’s old 97 iswara.
11. The idiotic power window switch design. Trust me, you will replacing it every 2 month if you are using highway and you don’t have a smart tag. I think I have changed more than 15 switch through out the years. The cost is RM12, you do the calculation.
Piss off and pull it out, mod it to the wira type switch according to the old iswara wiring. Althou it work like a charm, but I still waiting to see when it will short circuit and burn the whole car. (TOUCH WOOD!)
12. Mabuk that time, bang front and rear bumper, all cracked but body no dent. Self-replace, cost me less than RM150, but no paint and it’s a god-damn fragile fiberglass.
So far, only the engine part didn’t fail me. Overhaul once, by my mech, of cos. Bought it for almost 38k that time, now 2nd hand value is RM10K and trade in is around 7k. Sad case. Still the first and last proton for me.
Anyone of you thinking to get this proton saga. Think twice. If merely for transport point A to point B, is ok. But for comfort and the long run, think triple. I rather get a old Toyota SEG.