So P1 come first, NAP come later but it become today very “unfair equation” in our auto industry. We don’t get value for money cars for what ever brands (P1, P2 or imported) in our market
…………………………………………………………………..

We don’t get fair treatment either in outside market ! To send cars to others we need to pass so many tests which none here. Cars sent here not same specs as theirs. They said they reduce tax but actually they protect theirs by imposing so many regulations. Be positive and fair to our own land.

Appreciate your comments but if too long, cannot read all. When write, keep it KISS.. ‘keep it short and simple stupid’. That’s why when we mumbling too much, people fed up to listen, they will take things at the end only as conclusion… if they want to listen. Remember that… KISS

As “unhappy P1 customer” and as tax payer, u must always looking at today. Of course I was the lucky P1 customer and I’ve also the right to say the “unhappy foreigner customer”. After getting my money, they don’t listen to my complaint. At least Joe Ooi comments… somebody look at it.

NAP actually not fair to our national industry and more benefit to foreigners. If good to P1, they will make more profit but NAZA, Toyota, Honda getting more. P1 car specs actually not like Toyota specs, they are here and abroad. If u compare P1 price and Asian made Toyota, u cannot! Not fair in terms of features and more important our safety!!!! Safety need investment and money my dear. If u blame about quality of P1, u r right in some aspects but please buy other car and then do yr own bmark.
G must do many things to upgrade our standard of car selling here. U cannot simply make us on par with Indon, Siam or Philipine in terms of safety. With the specs they sent us, Avanza, Unser Innova etc of course should price as Iswara or Kancil because same safety standard. They are making more money not because of tax but dear my friend pls check how they calculate the OTR. Dia olang untung gila ma… agent Msia untung, agent Indon untung and tole besar kat Jepun lagi untung…. so u calculate la.

I hate all this rather than hantam P1 or P2 our own industry and vendors..

yup…peugeot is quite ok…maybe u didnt hear thier achievement on f1 but…they really damn good in rally since 80s and won many awards….for a french carmaker…peugeot is on the top alongside renault…actually…both of this carmaker is similar….conti car is very solid…i dare all of u…if u once drive the conti car…ull never turning back to jap cars…cause of the solidness,driving experience…it feels good compare to jap car…ive own the honda civic once…but then i tried the conti cars…which is fiat brava then many contis including peugeot,alfa romeo etc…the driving experience is really good….the feels is far better than the japs….the solidness…till now i stick to conti cars…:)…and actually the maintenance is ok…not like what we expecting…mahal…susah nak dapat spare part…actually ok…but u hv to know the rite workshop to go…that is important for u to join the forum…like local alfa,fiat,peugeot forum and etc…ull get more info there…

Joe Ooi – Let me get your perspective rights on me, I send messages/comments to Paul Tan for around 3 months only. With due respect to Paul Tan as a host, me as a layman visit this weblog with the following objectives/principles.

1. To learn and find out more truth from consumers perspective on our auto industry with specific reference to P1/NAP.

2. I talking on the “capacity” as consumers (especially “loyal” but “frustrated” P1 customer) and as a loyal tax payer citizen. So on this basis, I am in the opinion Paul Tan site give me a good opportunity to criticize “without fear and favor”. This is personal forum, and all our view can be discuss and argue. You go to mainstream media, “WHO ARE YOU?” “Where you come from?” You got Datokship or not? “Who know who” connection? Which “crocs species” you belong to? The list will go on and on whom I belong to, so don’t expect they pay attention to your view. Luckily internet gives us an opportunity to organize our own personal forum.

3. The basic principle when come to argument may include but not limited to the following: -
- On certain occasion have to “learn to agree on disagree”.
- I still respect your rights of opinion even though I may disagree with what you say.
- To accommodate differences of opinion – “all same black hair but million mind with billion thinking”.

So this is my perspective, no point to make or try to interpret your statement on me as the above statements are self-explanatory.

——————————————–

Ichiban – “I used P1 many times but no prob like yours. Maybe God give to you cos u have more times hantam P1.”

Joe Ooi – You may be “one in thousand” lucky P1 customer and good luck to you. But I strongly disagree with you that god give to me more times hantam P1. God give everybody 24 hours a day regardless of who you are or where you come from – god very fair! I allocate more time to learn and in search of truth, hantam P1? P1 deserved it for it is used tax payer money to set up and sales lousy car to customers like me with the help of NAP, which deny me the opportunity to choose other car with the same amount of money. As mentioned above, I am talking on the capacity of “unhappy P1 customer” and as tax payer.

——————————————–

Ichiban – “I just 1 to be fair to P1 and also P2.”

Joe Ooi – Who and which customers (me and you no exception) in this Bolehland is not fair to P1 and P2. The sad truth is P1 is not fair and blood sucking on rakyats for the last 20 years ++!

———————————————

Ichiban – “My Toyota also got problem. Chip mtrl use and easily rusty. Eek okk sound there like pig everywhere. Commented to service ctr but muka toya one. But no other MPV I can afford, beli aja ma.. P1 no need MPV, wasting time and money. Small market.”

Joe Ooi – The car you purchased is supposing to target at low income group or less wealthy nations within ASEAN. Relatively we are still better off than most of them, the main culprit are P1/NAP. Just imaging, without P1/NAP, with Avanza pricing of around RM 65K, in US with a little bit more you can buy Camry 2.4L and with al little bit less in Thailand, you can buy Corrola Altis (this is because the OTR price in Thai is included one-off road tax payment). We can squarely blame and hantam on P1/NAP!

———————————————

Ichiban – “With P1 & P2 exist now G realized many models sent here all low spec. Who check safety level. You go and check ka? Why Avanza Unser Innova City Vios not in Europe… all no std one, NCAP crash also not pass. M’sian people life very chip one esp u. Janji people buy one. Langgar sikit mati katak. Chinba car like sutera coming who check? Go and ask JPJ how many many many non compliances??? But still can approve to sell here. Who check their China abag. Who check their safety level like other ctry check imported car. My Toyota built in Indon than come here… what specs they used? Indon spec la…”

Joe Ooi – this is the direct consequences of P1/NAP. If government implements NCAP test or stringent safety standard on par with Europe or US, Perhaps at least 80% (say compulsory airbag requirement alone) of P1 car have to be off the road, P2 car may face the same consequences. But all can get through for simple reasons of commercial interest and as a source of suck more money from rakyat.

Toyota philosophy for products innovation is “Local Best” and “World Best”. For Avanza, Unser, Innova and Vios design and producing by Toyota, they classified it as “Local Best”. For Yaris/Vitz, Harrier, Camry, Avalon, Lexus, Corrola Altis, RAV4 etc are classified as “World Best”. So Toyota’s “Local Best” are targeted at certain region only. Even Toyota also producing cars specifically cater to the US market only (i.e. Avalon big luxury saloon).

You see Toyota is innovative and very smart in doing biz, in developed nation like US where there are many “rich and famous”, their “local best” product is high class luxury cars. In developing countries like ASEAN where most of us are “poor and ugly” (In Bolehland, P1/NAP make us “MOST poorest and ugliest”), they produce low end budget cars in their respective segment (cars, MPV, 4WD, etc) to cater to our market. So, your comment on the quality is valid. Toyota knows what is “local best/world best” to cater to all segment of customers from poor to rich with rights mixed of products in any part of the world. That why Toyota is so successful world class player and their cars are always selling like hot cake (under free market) for any models produce by them. See more info in Toyota Motor Corporation website. Same thing with Honda’s City model also cater to this part of region. So, if you looking for Toyota cars with better quality, look for “World Best” categories. Hmmmmm, sorry lah P1/NAP make it unaffordable to most of us …………………….. so that we are “forced” to buy below par “Bolehland Best”).

Unfortunately, P1/NAP makes even all Toyota “Local Best” car look like of high class cars (with perception of “imported mentality”). P1 don’t need to mentioned lol, don’t talk about “Local Best”, to do “Bolehland Best” also cannot already, even lost to P2/P3.

—————————————-

Ichiban – “Let P1 there and at least they pay tax more than you. Others buy foreign car and send 80% money go oversea like me must think hard. You no need.”

Joe Ooi – Of course P1 pay more tax than me because P1 is GLC and I just an individual. But on MACRO view, consumers and/or tax payer have to paid in total aggregate of say RM 8.9 billion extra tax in 2004 alone (my estimate based on: up to 300% tax – up to 5% tax X total nos. of cars sold). How about 20 years ++, so perhaps more than RM 100 billion? How much P1 paid tax to G for the same period? Maybe less than RM 5 billion, but tax payer money to sustain P1 is definitely more than this figure apart from the “more than RM 100 billion” figures as mentioned above.

Be more objective in making comparison! Also have to look at “cost-benefits” analysis. In P1 case, more rakyat money is pouring in compare to profits make by P1 (in this case P1 2005 profits around 28 million only)! In other word, P1 overall do not create wealth to nation but is a liability to rakyat.

—————————————–

Ichiban – “Anyway.. P1 or P2 maybe appreciate people like u cos at least there’s somebody try to kill them and they are here. Not like me, since Toyota in Japan, I complaint nobody want to here… salesman muka toya.. hampeh”

Joe Ooi – Look back on my objectives/principles, in no way and at all material time I have the capacity, intention or resources which is capable to kill P1/P2. So, I strongly disagree with your statement. I am just layman and unhappy P1 customer only rave’s and rant’s on this weblog! About your complaint to Toyota, and nobody want to hear you … this I believe is not reflect the policy or attitude of Toyota, but perhaps isolated individual salesman bad attitude problems.

Just to share with you my experience. I mean sometime there are certain staff in company action or behavior which is against the company policy just like I face problems with my off-line Streamyx for more than 2 months with repeated complaints to toll free call centre and email to customer care – but nobody care. So, what I can do, since official complaint to “front/bottom-line” staffs but they put up “monkey show” then just write complain letter directly to top management to Group CEO Dato’ Wahid, wah very effecient. All the monkeys start calling me and attend and settle within 48 hours, WTF teach them a lesson, even one of them told me “your complaint letter will be discuss in weekly management meeting”? For me I don’t care, what I want is their service before asking me to pay the bill. See all big company have a lot of office politics. I believe Toyota is no exception!

Cheers to you ……, no offend, no malicious intention, no hostility, but there may be “hard talk direct to the point(s)” approach, which have a high propensity to become “enmity”.

Lastly, tired also writing this “long air” comments but sorry lol out of topic yet take so much Paul Tan space……….

Note – Back to biz, Proton actually make lost but insurance claim of around RM 80 million put P1 on black again.

Proton make profit because we pay high price for potong car lah!! It’s because all the excise duty we pay goto to subsidize potonglah!! Then the share of potong rise, benefit who??? you knowlah ??? ….. poor rakyat Malaysia

Dear PGlang,
I believe u know how much P1 built car cost. Pls tell everybody so that we know the actual cost G kebas.
I bought Toyota, Honda more expensive, where the money go? To Japan la..
We got what… besi buruk. Tauke juga kaya. Who said Msian r poor?
Naza lagi kaya… drive difference.. badge… with lowest quality of Sutera.

NAP is useless, drop down few thousand but increase interest rate, lower trade-in, how to buy new car. Better stick to old horse
………..

I’m with u.

The way you talk is worst than P1, where the statement come from? From your “smelly and stinking septic tank” big mouth?
My message is not demonstrate hostility toward you. But the burden is on you to remedy it by say admit your mistake or more “diplomatic”, retract your statement!

Maybe joe ooi got angry to me, sending two times reply.
My mouth not that big. Very busy time to always look at you and reply long long way. Many other things to do.
I used P1 many times but no prob like yours. Maybe God give to you cos u have more times hantam P1. I just 1 to be fair to P1 and also P2. My Toyota also got problem. Chip mtrl use and easily rusty. Eek okk sound there like pig everywhere. Commented to service ctr but muka toya one. But no other MPV I can afford, beli aja ma.. P1 no need MPV, wasting time and money. Small market.
With P1 & P2 exist now G realised many models sent here all low spec. Who check safety level. You go and check ka? Why Avanza Unser Innova City Vios not in Europe… all no std one, NCAP crash also not pass. M’sian people life very chip one esp u.
Janji people buy one. Langgar sikit mati katak. Chinba car like sutera coming who check? Go and ask JPJ how many many many non compliances??? But still can approve to sell here. Who check their China abag. Who check their safety level like other ctry check imported car.
My Toyota built in Indon than come here… what specs they used? Indon spec la…
Let P1 there and at least they pay tax more than you. Others buy foreign car and send 80% money go oversea like me must think hard. You no need.

Anyway.. P1 or P2 maybe appreciate people like u cos at least there’s somebody try to kill them and they are here. Not like me, since Toyota in Japan, I complaint nobody want to here… salesman muka toya.. hampeh

Nice writing to you..

“Joe Ooi, Why so angry with potong maa…Potong make car not for you.

One more question by you but I give you TWO answers: -
1. “Potong make car not for you”. Yes is truth if there is no P1/NAP in this Bolehland so that with the same amount of money I can afford other cars with better quality and safety features, just like you. Imported some more and P1 car already lower down my standard and status, huh,……..

2. So today reality is P1/NAP still exist. How dare you come out with statement like “Potong make car not for you” toward me. As I mentioned above, the only cars I ever bought until today are Iswara and Waja. These are not kereta potong or curi but perfectly new and legal at the time of purchased. The car ownership is legally under my name as recored in JPJ registration card! Where you got this statement, I believe P1 also never said that or “blacklist my name”, or I never said that I won’t buy P1 cars (at least for my Iswara and Waja, in future perhaps yes). WTF. I can prove that your statement is a big liar but anyway the burden of prove is on you to justify your statement, as the case maybe!

The way you talk is worst than P1, where the statement come from? From your “smelly and stinking septic tank” big mouth?

My message is not demonstrate hostility toward you. But the burden is on you to remedy it by say admit your mistake or more “diplomatic”, retract your statement!

- AMAZED,
THOSE POTONG SPOKEMEN
ARE TO BE ON JAIL
FOR LIES

Peugeot Denies It’s Planning an Alliance With Malaysia’s Proton

Updated : 01-06-2006
Media : Bloomberg
Story By : Alan Katz
via http://www.biznewsdb.com
Mail this story or page to friend(s).

June 1 (Bloomberg) — PSA Peugeot Citroen, Europe’s No. 2 carmaker, denied
that it has any plan to form an alliance with Proton Holdings Bhd.,
Malaysia’s biggest automaker.

The company did hold talks with Proton, as it does with all carmakers, but
reached no agreement with the company, Jean-Hugues Duban, a Peugeot
spokesman, said. He also denied that any shares might be exchanged.

“We are the champions of this type of cooperation, so we talk with
everybody all the time, but there is no project with Proton,Չ۪ he said.

- THAT IS HOW CERTAIN PARTIES,
WITH THE BLESSING” OF G-GANGS,
DOING BUSINESS HERE,
AND SCREW UP
AND RAP
THIS BEAUTIFUL LAND AROUND..
…..LIKE THIRD WORKD- GHANA…ETC

DISGRACES…
….HELL ACTS…

Updated : 01-06-2006
Media : Bloomberg
Story By : Alan Katz
via http://www.biznewsdb.com
Mail this story or page to friend(s).

June 1 (Bloomberg) — PSA Peugeot Citroen, Europe’s No. 2 carmaker, denied
that it has any plan to form an alliance with Proton Holdings Bhd.,
Malaysia’s biggest automaker.

The company did hold talks with Proton, as it does with all carmakers, but
reached no agreement with the company, Jean-Hugues Duban, a Peugeot
spokesman, said. He also denied that any shares might be exchanged.

“We are the champions of this type of cooperation, so we talk with
everybody all the time, but there is no project with Proton,” he said.
The Financial Times reported yesterday that Peugeot was in talks with
Proton and that the talks might result in the French carmaker having a
stake in Proton.

Proton will unveil a model jointly developed with Mitsubishi Motors Corp.,
a former shareholder, by the end of the year or early 2007, Managing
Director Zainal Abidin Syed Mohd Tahir said on May 30. The company on
April 5 said it may sell shares to another carmaker in exchange for
technical expertise and to help it become more competitive.

Talks with Volkswagen AG about a stake sale ended in January after the two
sides couldn’t agree on issues including control of the Malaysian company
and its future strategy.

http://www.biznewsdb.com/english/newspage/newspage.asp?ID=6060190&file1=6&bulan=06&kw=wwqq

ichiban said, June 1, 2006 @ 2:08 pm

“Joe Ooi, Why so angry with potong maa…Potong make car not for you. Me better, dont like P1 I buy Toyota. Pity to my friend if P1 close. Where to work. You can give job?”

ichiban, why me so angry with potong maa ….. simply on the following reasons: -

1. I used Iswara 1.3 for 7 years, give me all kind of headaches for as long as I used the car like power window jam, lousy absorber (change not less than 4 time), water pump “kong” within 2 months (luckily under warranty) but make me no face bcos at that time pretty girl beside me! Huh WTF. Make me worry all the time when driving at highway because of drum break and unstabil when drive at more than 100 Km/H.

2. Later, former CEO, TM talk cock and brag about first fully made in malaysia car fine tuning by Lotus, the WAJA. Still have trust with P1, later change to WAJA for 3 years ++, very unfortunately “P1 freak gene in Iswara still carry over to Waja” like failed power window and lousy absorber until out of mechanic recommendation, I have to change and used Honda recond absorber which is at least 3-4 years at a time of fixing and now use around 2 years still very comfortable (now the Honda absorber at least 5 years ++) compared to Waja “ORIGINAL” absorber lasted for 1 year ++ only. WTF!

3. Talk about power window failured, my Iswara change many time on motor but still failed, come to Waja forget about change it. Even before broke down, dare not to press button frequently for fear of jam halfway especially I experience it even during rainy day, you just imaging the suffering and hokkien called it very “TULAN” (angry).

4. So I have to put up the “routine inconvenient” which is now become part of my “normal practice” have to open/close the door when collect ticket and paid for tol, collect ticket and paid for parking at shopping complexes, office building, etc, etc, etc. I “practicing and carrying out this routine” for almost 10 years and sometime I drive other non-P1 car (belong to friends) but I so get use to open/close door and do the same damn stupid “normal practice” until they “KETAWA MONYET @ ka, ka, ka, ka, …..” at me. No face lol some of them are ladies!………. WTF, this is what I got for support P1 and yet make “patriotic contribution”

5. How much “patriotic contribution” I sacrifice my scarce income to P1. Say Lancer 2.0L sell at US, check with MSN website is around RM 40K (USD 10K ++) and my friend told me Iswara 1.5L export version to UK (last time) is around RM 19K ++, so the fair selling price might be around RM 25K. I purchased Waja 1.6L around RM 65K (2003) and Iswara around RM 37K (1996). So the “patriotic contribution” to P1 at least = (RM 65K – RM 40K) + (RM 37K – RM 25K) = RM 25K + RM 12K = RM 37K over 10 years ++ or approx. paid extra RM 3.6K per year or RM 300 per month. This RM 300 per month is at least enough to pay for 80% if not sufficient to cover my monthly fuel bill. WT Big F, really suck blood yet give “lansai” (lousy) product?

So, this is the tip of the iceberg and I strongly believe I am not alone facing this calamity as a DIRECT result of P1/NAP.

Of course not everybody can afford to buy Toyota like you. So you said “Pity to my friend if P1 close. Where to work. You can give job?”

At least your statement try to defend your friend if yourself is not come from P1. You still dare to come out with statement tainted by “P1 freak gene”? WTF, so you expected rakyat to pay RM billion annually to keep your friend few RM K job? This is your selfish thinking, but anyway this is your right of opinion although I strongly disagreed with you! You futher ask “where to work. You can give job?” Your statement is intoned “anak kerbau tak kenal harimau”! WTF, if no P1 and NAP, there are more car manufacturers come to Bolehland to set up plants like Thailand which create perhap ten fold job opportunities. Even me non-automotif layman also can find job in auto industry, so you don’t even need to mention your friend can’t find job!

So if I “responsive” and also “tainted by P1 freak gene” to your argument, then ask approximately 8,000 P1 staffs to make “pathetic contribution” amounting to RM 1.00 per person or RM 8K per month (which is very afforble compare to my “patriotic ocntribution” of RM 37 K to P1) and give it to my pocket so that without work I also can enjoy my life? Luckily I don’t behave in that manner! ………

Please be informed that at all material time, I love our country whole-heartedly but I am very angry (”TULAN”) on the way P1/NAP treat us like “fat cow which can be milked to the last drop of SUSU”. So I love and like this beautiful country. Don’t you ever come out with another “BN freak gene” statement that “dislike of this P1/NAP policy” = dislike of this country. Then later on come out with “if you don’t like than migrate to other country” just like the behaviour of one of the MP from northern state! (in fact same state with me, but my “near physically” but “abroad mentally” neighbour!

So Kendo you want to know where is the money go,……. hhmmmmmm………
go to crocs, cronies, AP King, P1 or other GLCs. Out of 15 GLCs, 11 are making lose, so more rakyat money will be use as so call “salvage unfloatable boat” which is become the breeding ground for BIG and FAT crocs, etc.

So J, not only EPF other like Petronas also cannot escape and more G policy or law will be implemented and design to suck more blood from rakyat jut like recently electricity 12% hike. Look at newspaper, TNB “misrepresent” on the “actual figure” as shown in STAR. The pie chart for 59% doest not affected by the hike is represent the USERS”, but what is more important is the turnover or total billing. The 59% users’ (shall be low income group) billing might constitute less than 20% of total billing, and the 41% users (may be factories, commercials or high income group) might have to bear the brunt of paying at least 80% of the total bill, which eventually will pass the cost to consumers as in the case of factory, is form part of their cost. Please take note here is “assumption” only and the more accurate info is in the hand of TNB! you want to know more detail, go to look after TNB, see how much extra collection TNB can make.

Motorhead – talk about P1 Tanjong Malim capacity, previously in the press P1 mentioned the initial capacity is 300,000 units per years, which can increase to 1 million full capacity. According to Proton Berhad website, Gen-2 assemble at Tg Malim sold in 2005 is 29,739 units. Savvy recorded sales of 6,172 units in 2005. Total sales for all models were 152,845 units in 2005. WTF, Putra sold 24 units in 2005 and sold 448 units for the last 5 years (409+6+3+6+24 units, 2001 – 2005) still don’t want to discontinue the production?
See http://www.proton.com/about_proton/facts_figures/car_sales.php

So, perhaps the 50% under utilize capacity is 152,845/300,000 including production from Shah Alam plant take into consideration (or P1 plug the % from the sky”). If we purely tabulate Gen-2 production at Tg Malim, perhap it is 90% under utilize?