1. “we pay our lives to die on the roads, we did everything to protect our very fragile pieces of junk metal.”

2. “so i suppose if you drive any other make of car, you are guranteed to walk away even if a 747 landed on your head?”
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Your statement is equally ignorant if not most freaking. If you are in the opinion that other statement is inappropriate, then it doesn’t mean you have right to response it with equally wrong approach? In mathematic, – - = + but in doing thing or give opinion, 2 wrongs doesn’t make it right. You may just aggravate the situation…………. If let me to comment on both 1 & 2, I am more agree with 1st statement as it is with certain basis (maybe “weak”), but in no way I can find any logic or good reasoning for 2nd statement.

VTEC more advanced n better than VVTi? eehh… u first gotta understand wat is VTEC n vvti… ones a cam CHANGER , the other is a cam PHASER.

if we talk apple-to-apple comparison, then it would be i-vtec (the kseries stuff) and VVTLi engine. notice the L, meaning the vvti mechanism has a valve lift adjustment as well. i dont know which is better, but i tihnk VVTLi came out first, in the celica engine/ lotus exige. and read somewhere its tuned by yamaha.

http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/vvt_31.htm

“we pay our lives to die on the roads, we did everything to protect our very fragile pieces of junk metal.”

so i suppose if you drive any other make of car, you are guranteed to walk away even if a 747 landed on your head?

it sounds like they just reprogrammed the VTEC so that it locks and unlocks the high lift cams more often thats all. must get WongKN from TOVA to write it up, his write up on the L15 city vtec is really good.

http://asia.vtec.net/Engines/K20Z/index.html he just wrote some good stuff on the 8g civic engines… read on …rather than to compare proton n honda

I still remembered back to approx 10 year ago, when Proton want to built it Tg Malim plant, P1 (Datok Salleh Sulong) mentioned that this plant implementation is to achieve world class player, but now the sad reality is it is according to Proton, under capacity by 40%. Current Tg Malim plant capacity is around 300K. If we look at P1 website, Gen-2 sold around 30K units in 2005 and Savvy around 7K unit. Therefore, actual under capacity is more than 80%? Perhaps they lump Shah Alam and Tg Malim output together to arrive at 40%!

“This is the most expensive proud the Malaysians have ever paid. We pay money to buy the junk, we pay our lives to die on the roads, we did everything to protect our very fragile pieces of junk metal. I am sorry but I just can’t help it. Only will I be proud one day if Proton is on the par with the global car makers. Just like our national football team, the day they longed to step into the pitch of stadium for World Cup. It will never happens, at least for the rest of my life. I am a Malaysian, with a simplistic Malaysian attitude. Credit is given where it’s due. I am sorry.”

Please do not get me wrong when i try to substantiate why people can be proud of Proton. In fact I thoroughly share your sentiment hence my questions posed on the standard of the car and the engine whilst i try to be as positive as possible with my comments on Proton. Maybe Pride is the better word?

But in my opinion, there is always a glimmer of hope (that I am not clinging to) which is the partnership with a global conglomerate, the big boys. My example in question, Skoda, a Czech brand but now owned by Audi, is doing well and has even reached our shores with decent cars. Whilst I understand that my example has not produced class leading cars like BMW or Mercedes or the likes, atleast my suggestion can lead to better product and ultimately benefits the consumer or something that can raise its head against global car makers. A more realistic view perhaps? If Mr Khairy is suggesting to set the bar that Proton would be on par with BMW or Mercedes, leading a certain class, then i am afraid I also share your sentiments on Proton.

You are right, Proton did adopt a wrong strategy. Then again, if you want to blame, the biggest culprit here would be the government. They are the one that implement the high tax rate which practically brought up the whole car prices. Also, if you want to talk more about strategy, the agreement with mitsu was a mistake. A very wrong placed strategy that made proton where it is now. Technology transference/sharing was slow (non-existence even) and for each car proton sold, a substantial amount is gone to Mitsu. That is why 20 yr old technology car is still being sold!

But what’s done is done. At current moment with current circumstances I believe Proton is doing a good thing by improving it’s quality and standard with its new cars. If you disagree, I have nothing to say.

It’s always good to benchmark with leaders in the industry. BUT before you do that, you must look at where you stand. Proton can’t even play with those in it’s class yet (the Koreans) and you are asking to aim for the world class leaders? It’s practically suicide. I don’t have the exact figure but I won’t be surprised if the volume of sales of Honda vs Proton is more than 10x and that’s what counts. Volume brings down car prices, parts and increases money for R&D. No volume, no money.

Realistically, the only way I see things changing now… Proton needs a big major player to backup.

I think all those who compare proton with any other manufacturer should be forgiven to think so for the simple reason that it is suppose to be our national pride. But how proud can we be when clearly the cars that come out are below par? How proud can we be when others have move on to AVtec and yet our campro still doesn’t have variable valve timing?
Another reason is that we all can’t deny that Proton is our national car and we want to be proud of it, warts and all.

Whilst i am not suggesting that Proton doesn’t need to buckle up (and indeed a thorough restructuring is needed to succeed, and cheekly if I may suggest a partnership?) the bottom line is we are all Malaysian and Proton is a Malaysian car. Comments and criticism are only for the better and the recipient should take it objectively and not resort to patriotism to sell products. If indeed that is the case, it would be very sad day for Malaysians.”

This is the most expensive proud the Malaysians have ever paid. We pay money to buy the junk, we pay our lives to die on the roads, we did everything to protect our very fragile pieces of junk metal. I am sorry but I just can’t help it. Only will I be proud one day if Proton is on the par with the global car makers. Just like our national football team, the day they longed to step into the pitch of stadium for World Cup. It will never happens, at least for the rest of my life. I am a Malaysian, with a simplistic Malaysian attitude. Credit is given where it’s due. I am sorry.

porsche’s engines in my book are of course better. very reliable.

the new type r civic seems like a dissapointment. but cant wait to see the reviews.

nice job Honda

Is this AVTEC engine the same one as the i-VTEC-i which combined the conventional i-VTEC with GDI technology?

Just don’t know what would be the different between Honda AVTEC with Nissan CVTC or maybe Toyota VVTL-i or maybe Toyota DUAL VVT-i ?

Nissan have 1.6l CVTC Sunny in S’pore(http://www.nissan.com.sg/lookfor/sunny/sunny_spec.cfm). Which is similar to our Sentra but in M’sia got VTC only. Nevertheless In M’sia TanChong is offering Serena and X-Trail that c/w CVTC engine (http://www.nissan.com.my/vehicles/serena/specifications.html).

As for Toyota, all we had is VVT-i engine.
In Japan, other than VVT-i, Toyota is offering VVTL-i(Variable Valve Timing and Lift-intelligent) and BEAMS(Breakthrough Engine with Advanced Mechanism System) engine. (http://toyota.jp/corollarunx/dynamism/engin/index.html)

Click the link to find out more….

Dear, Paul
Any comment on this ?

Whilst i am not suggesting that Proton doesn’t need to buckle up (and indeed a thorough restructuring is needed to succeed, and cheekly if I may suggest a partnership?) the bottom line is we are all Malaysian and Proton is a Malaysian car. Comments and criticism are only for the better and the recipient should take it objectively and not resort to patriotism to sell products. If indeed that is the case, it would be very sad day for Malaysians.

“I am not a pro-Proton person. I own a 4 yr old Proton AND a 15 yr old Honda. I know the diff in quality. But before we go bashing up and down, we should look at the facts. And for once, think if we were in their shoes, what would we do? It’s always easy to find fault of others, but when we are in their place… would we have done the same?”

Below is my previous post, hope you read the fact and find out who really don’t know economy: –

Joe Ooi said,
September 14, 2006 @ 12:07 pm

What most of the comments complaint/disagree are as follow: -

P1 adopt very bad biz model as below: -

1. Local market – selling at relatively high price but with low specs car – that is the root of local consumer “dianak-tirikan”.

2. Export Market – selling at relatively low price but with high specs car – that is also the root of consumer perception that P1 subsidize export market by squeeze local consumer? Means suck local RM to dump at oversea for every car export.

Currently, most of P1 car is “expensive” yet make the owner live so “cheap” on the road.

The above bad biz shall discard and P1 shall act “patriotic” as responsible corporate citizen, protect local consumer and take care of people welfare including built safe car so that less probability of people will die on the road in the event of accident.

So, good biz for P1 are:
1. Local market – sell at relatively lowest price with best specs car.

2. Export market – sell at relatively competitive price with high specs car in its class.

This shall be the case so that the more car export by P1, then it will make more money to bring back USD, GBP, Yen, Yuen, Dinar, Rupiah, Aus D, Sing D, etc, etc, to enrich Bolehland.

No one including you are ignorant – the real culprit is P1 and the funniest is also P1 – big joker in Bolehland ……….

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Ricc said, September 26, 2006 @ 10:46 am

To v0ice,

“I wonder who’s the plain ignorant 1.. Our G did everything to protect proton (i.e : high tax for non-local car) to boost proton sales. Proton have the money to do better RnD, ended up? Piece of junk.. All low and lousy quality parts.”

So the “VERDICT” is P1 is the plain ignorant and vOice, you “voice” out inappropriate statement………

If P1 want to be world class player, then it should be benchmarking against the world best players like Toyota, Honda, Mercs, VW, etc, etc, ……. if think this as not make an “apple-to-apple” comparison – then better close shop!

It is “not wrong” as far as we make “benchmarking” on whatever endeavor carried out by any party so as we can assess how good are they in the market!

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Whopper said, Well that’s a good improvement. But wondering whether it can be translated in real world traffic conditions like the dreaded Federal Highway and Jln Tun Razak?

Joe Ooi – I believed this saving of 13% is compare to exisitng engine and it should be under similar road condition, either super smooth highway at top speed or as you mentioned the crawling at super jam Federal Highway. If two car with i-VTEC and AVTEC engine run at the same road condition (jam or not jam), AVTEC shall have saving of 13% fuel!