Comments on: Funke & Will Yes! Roadster http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/ Paul Tan on the Automotive Industry Fri, 25 May 2012 04:57:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Deodorant http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-53466 Deodorant Mon, 16 Oct 2006 09:51:07 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-53466 I recall reading somewhere about R3 saying that the break-even sales point for a limited-edition mod of an <i>existing</i> car was 2,000 units. Even if you assume Proton goes the "modifying an existing Lotus" route, I don't see them selling 2,000 units ... R3 for example took quite a while to sell off 150 SR3s, and those cost only 70-something thousand. I recall reading somewhere about R3 saying that the break-even sales point for a limited-edition mod of an existing car was 2,000 units. Even if you assume Proton goes the "modifying an existing Lotus" route, I don't see them selling 2,000 units … R3 for example took quite a while to sell off 150 SR3s, and those cost only 70-something thousand.

]]> By: tbcheese http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52956 tbcheese Mon, 09 Oct 2006 17:52:22 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52956 Why does it always have to be about Proton... Why does it always have to be about Proton…

]]> By: maibatsu_thunder http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52899 maibatsu_thunder Mon, 09 Oct 2006 05:22:16 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52899 Exodust, IMHO you're totally wrong. a) I say development of a small volume car will NOT reach 'hundreds of millions', not even ONE hundred million Pounds Sterling, US Dollars or Euros. However you say 'DEFINITELY'. Where did you get such a figure anyway? What's your point of reference for development cost? b) Why is it 'highly irrational' about Proton making a car in this category? Is it then rational to make a 5+2 minivan (Juara), an aluminium crossover MUV or a pickup (Arena)? Explain the rationality or irrationality of positioning such a product. c) What's the point you're trying to make? I don't think you've justified anything or made any point so far. You tried to post in a very authoritative manner to contradict my suggestion but failed to give any convincing reasons or evidence. On the hundred million bit, I doubt Funke & Will ever spent that much even in ringgit 'definitely' as you said, but I perhaps Proton spent that much in RM or close to it for the shelved aluminium MPV project. But the bottom line is you posted as if you were sure, but you have no basis to say what you said. Exodust, IMHO you're totally wrong.

a) I say development of a small volume car will NOT reach 'hundreds of millions', not even ONE hundred million Pounds Sterling, US Dollars or Euros. However you say 'DEFINITELY'. Where did you get such a figure anyway? What's your point of reference for development cost?

b) Why is it 'highly irrational' about Proton making a car in this category? Is it then rational to make a 5+2 minivan (Juara), an aluminium crossover MUV or a pickup (Arena)? Explain the rationality or irrationality of positioning such a product.

c) What's the point you're trying to make? I don't think you've justified anything or made any point so far. You tried to post in a very authoritative manner to contradict my suggestion but failed to give any convincing reasons or evidence.

On the hundred million bit, I doubt Funke & Will ever spent that much even in ringgit 'definitely' as you said, but I perhaps Proton spent that much in RM or close to it for the shelved aluminium MPV project. But the bottom line is you posted as if you were sure, but you have no basis to say what you said.

]]> By: exodust http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52898 exodust Mon, 09 Oct 2006 04:36:38 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52898 Okay, I'll admit it probably wouldnt reach it in pound currency, but definitely in most other currencies. However, the point I was trying to make here was that it is highly irrational to expect proton should make a car in this category, if you are so desperate in need to find any excuse to win an arguement then here you go, I made a mistake about the development costs, but my main point has already been made ages ago and that was my main objective. Okay, I'll admit it probably wouldnt reach it in pound currency, but definitely in most other currencies. However, the point I was trying to make here was that it is highly irrational to expect proton should make a car in this category, if you are so desperate in need to find any excuse to win an arguement then here you go, I made a mistake about the development costs, but my main point has already been made ages ago and that was my main objective.

]]> By: tbcheese http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52895 tbcheese Mon, 09 Oct 2006 01:58:56 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52895 err Paul do you know if they completely dumped the 1.8T version or if they're selling them side by side? err Paul do you know if they completely dumped the 1.8T version or if they're selling them side by side?

]]> By: tbcheese http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52894 tbcheese Mon, 09 Oct 2006 01:55:47 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52894 Maybe hundreds of millions of pounds sterling might be overstated but its not entirely unlikely. Consider this, in their petition for exemption from airbag laws in the US they stated that they spent over 3 million USD to make the car design compliant with US regulations. This is excluding the airbag. Development of a standard airbag would cost 630k USD and further development into an advanced airbag system required by US regulations at an additional 1.1 million USD. 4.7 million USD just to make it compliant with US standards. I wonder how much would the initial development cost be? Additionally, they are a startup company, not an established company. So they'd need to finance a manufacturing facility and the required tooling. Aluminum isn't as cheap to work with compared to steel too. Although they do receive subsidies in the manufacturing facility as the regional government of Lower Saxony where they're based has a stake in the company as well. The petition can be found here <a href="http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jan20061800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/2006/pdf/E6-14252.pdf#search=%22funke%20and%20will%20finance%22" rel="nofollow">http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jan2006...</a> I might have interpreted it wrong so please do feel free to correct me if it is so. Maybe hundreds of millions of pounds sterling might be overstated but its not entirely unlikely. Consider this, in their petition for exemption from airbag laws in the US they stated that they spent over 3 million USD to make the car design compliant with US regulations. This is excluding the airbag. Development of a standard airbag would cost 630k USD and further development into an advanced airbag system required by US regulations at an additional 1.1 million USD.

4.7 million USD just to make it compliant with US standards. I wonder how much would the initial development cost be? Additionally, they are a startup company, not an established company. So they'd need to finance a manufacturing facility and the required tooling. Aluminum isn't as cheap to work with compared to steel too. Although they do receive subsidies in the manufacturing facility as the regional government of Lower Saxony where they're based has a stake in the company as well.

The petition can be found here

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jan2006…

I might have interpreted it wrong so please do feel free to correct me if it is so.

]]> By: maibatsu_thunder http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52877 maibatsu_thunder Sun, 08 Oct 2006 22:24:15 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52877 Exodust, what is ur proof or basis of stating that development cost for this Funke and Will Roadster will run into the hundreds of millions of pounds sterling? Exodust, what is ur proof or basis of stating that development cost for this Funke and Will Roadster will run into the hundreds of millions of pounds sterling?

]]> By: szw http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52863 szw Sun, 08 Oct 2006 21:12:41 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52863 weird... weird…

]]> By: tbcheese http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52839 tbcheese Sun, 08 Oct 2006 17:55:43 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52839 aksMs here you go <a href="http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publish/Features/article_1242.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publish/Features/a...</a> Its part of a series of articles about VW AG powered cars <a href="http://www.fourtitude.com/features/special_features/specialty_week.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.fourtitude.com/features/special_featur...</a> Their design has certainly matured. I can imagine this looking very nice as a coupe. aksMs here you go

http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publish/Features/a…

Its part of a series of articles about VW AG powered cars

http://www.fourtitude.com/features/special_featur…

Their design has certainly matured. I can imagine this looking very nice as a coupe.

]]> By: exodust http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52830 exodust Sun, 08 Oct 2006 17:04:05 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52830 I said that the costs of development will reach that mark, read my post properly. I think that isnt such a hard task, even for someone of your level of IQ. And I said money doesnt grow on trees, what's so childish about that? The only childishness I've seen is the one shown by people saying "Proton should make this, make that" when these people never thought if they'd even buy the car if proton made it. As with those Proton models, they assumed that there would be a market for it. Producing this kind of car on the other hand, obviously there isnt a market for it. Who among us is willing to spend a lot of money buying a Proton sports car? I said that the costs of development will reach that mark, read my post properly. I think that isnt such a hard task, even for someone of your level of IQ. And I said money doesnt grow on trees, what's so childish about that? The only childishness I've seen is the one shown by people saying "Proton should make this, make that" when these people never thought if they'd even buy the car if proton made it. As with those Proton models, they assumed that there would be a market for it. Producing this kind of car on the other hand, obviously there isnt a market for it. Who among us is willing to spend a lot of money buying a Proton sports car?

]]> By: aksMs http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52811 aksMs Sun, 08 Oct 2006 12:54:23 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52811 tbcheese said, October 7, 2006 @ 8:54 pm --------------------------- Bro, where did you get that one? So, you're saying that it was all started with a Diploma thesis? Makes me shudder though. In some other place, they go an extra mile in supporting the young and bright. Herbert Funke and Philipp Will were probably lucky enough to hit the right place at the right time. Without a bit of luck, no matter how solid or feasible their thesis were, this lightweight roadster wouldn't be materialize at all. I could be totally wrong about them. Here in Malaysia, if you do the same, it's either your letter got lost in the way, or you'll be the laughing stock of the board members at their tea brake. How sad... Back to the car, a 3.2 litre on feather weight chasis is really...they must be out of their mind. Added a turbo some more? If they send it here and let our 'mesti boleh punye' pomen fiddle with it in try and error way, I'm sure they could've squeeze out some 400 horses easily....without the safety factor, of course! Hehe.... Just a thought, I wonder, if our local mechanic can manage to mount a B16A into a Kancil for a drag race, I wonder what else they could do. If you give them some financial aid and the right tools, to build up a proper race machine from scratch, say, using a Kancil chasis, what would be the outcome? tbcheese said,

October 7, 2006 @ 8:54 pm

—————————

Bro, where did you get that one? So, you're saying that it was all started with a Diploma thesis? Makes me shudder though. In some other place, they go an extra mile in supporting the young and bright. Herbert Funke and Philipp Will were probably lucky enough to hit the right place at the right time. Without a bit of luck, no matter how solid or feasible their thesis were, this lightweight roadster wouldn't be materialize at all. I could be totally wrong about them. Here in Malaysia, if you do the same, it's either your letter got lost in the way, or you'll be the laughing stock of the board members at their tea brake. How sad…

Back to the car, a 3.2 litre on feather weight chasis is really…they must be out of their mind. Added a turbo some more? If they send it here and let our 'mesti boleh punye' pomen fiddle with it in try and error way, I'm sure they could've squeeze out some 400 horses easily….without the safety factor, of course! Hehe….

Just a thought, I wonder, if our local mechanic can manage to mount a B16A into a Kancil for a drag race, I wonder what else they could do. If you give them some financial aid and the right tools, to build up a proper race machine from scratch, say, using a Kancil chasis, what would be the outcome?

]]> By: tanasi http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52803 tanasi Sun, 08 Oct 2006 10:53:01 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52803 part of the Proton stable are the vehicles from Lotus. Even the Mk1 is not doing well here locally. And that's probably about the cheapest no-holds-barred type of roadster. So, its true then, that there's simply not enough demand here to develop from scratch a lightweight, performance vehicle. part of the Proton stable are the vehicles from Lotus.

Even the Mk1 is not doing well here locally. And that's probably about the cheapest no-holds-barred type of roadster. So, its true then, that there's simply not enough demand here to develop from scratch a lightweight, performance vehicle.

]]> By: maibatsu_thunder http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52790 maibatsu_thunder Sun, 08 Oct 2006 02:52:28 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52790 So, Exodust, you're saying the Funke & Will roadster costs at least a hundred million pounds sterling? Where did you get such a figure? Money doesn't grow on trees. No need to be childish. Proton spent a lot on the Juara, Arena, APV, Prodrive Putra, etc. and not many people bought those. Not enough to justify development, at least so I'd say they're pretty brave in the risk department. So, Exodust, you're saying the Funke & Will roadster costs at least a hundred million pounds sterling? Where did you get such a figure?

Money doesn't grow on trees. No need to be childish.

Proton spent a lot on the Juara, Arena, APV, Prodrive Putra, etc. and not many people bought those. Not enough to justify development, at least so I'd say they're pretty brave in the risk department.

]]> By: exodust http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52789 exodust Sun, 08 Oct 2006 02:31:58 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52789 @maibatsu_thunder: In case you forgot, money doesnt grow on trees. Proton cant risk spending that much money on something and not have anyone buy it. Funke & Will can do it because they have already established a reputation in Germany, a place where there is a market for this kind of cars. Malaysia, on the other hand, has people that ask for these kind of cars but in truth they probably wouldnt buy it or cant afford it. And about currency, I meant it'll reach at least in the hundred millions of any currency, even if we were talking about it in pounds. @maibatsu_thunder: In case you forgot, money doesnt grow on trees. Proton cant risk spending that much money on something and not have anyone buy it. Funke & Will can do it because they have already established a reputation in Germany, a place where there is a market for this kind of cars. Malaysia, on the other hand, has people that ask for these kind of cars but in truth they probably wouldnt buy it or cant afford it. And about currency, I meant it'll reach at least in the hundred millions of any currency, even if we were talking about it in pounds.

]]> By: maibatsu_thunder http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52785 maibatsu_thunder Sun, 08 Oct 2006 00:58:17 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52785 Exodust, nah I didn't know Funke & Will spent hundreds of millions, so whats stopping some carmaker from blowing a hundred million? BTW hundreds of millions of what? RM? Pounds? USD? Yen? Exodust, nah I didn't know Funke & Will spent hundreds of millions, so whats stopping some carmaker from blowing a hundred million? BTW hundreds of millions of what? RM? Pounds? USD? Yen?

]]> By: raybrig85 http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52775 raybrig85 Sat, 07 Oct 2006 22:39:17 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52775 owh...sorry...maybe my mistake... owh…sorry…maybe my mistake…

]]> By: tbcheese http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52765 tbcheese Sat, 07 Oct 2006 20:54:00 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52765 This version looks much better than the first one. That design was just too extreme. This came from somewhere else and might interest you. <em> Why a VWAG engine? We asked Funke & Will’s Jens-Uwe Viehrig this very question, and he told us, “When Herbert Funke and Philipp Will wanted to realize their diploma thesis in the form of a prototype, they contacted thirty-six boards of directors of German automobile companies and asked for support. Thirty-two of them offered their help and so our company founders received services, material and of course financial support. VWAG was very liberal and offered many parts which flow into the production of the YES!. </em> This version looks much better than the first one. That design was just too extreme.

This came from somewhere else and might interest you.

Why a VWAG engine? We asked Funke & Will’s Jens-Uwe Viehrig this very question, and he told us, “When Herbert Funke and Philipp Will wanted to realize their diploma thesis in the form of a prototype, they contacted thirty-six boards of directors of German automobile companies and asked for support. Thirty-two of them offered their help and so our company founders received services, material and of course financial support. VWAG was very liberal and offered many parts which flow into the production of the YES!.

]]> By: exodust http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52763 exodust Sat, 07 Oct 2006 20:08:18 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52763 @raybrig85: Where in the world did you get that idea?? Honda was not mentioned even once in the article! Did you even bother reading the article?? Else you would have realised that its a roadster by Funke & Will, not Honda. @raybrig85: Where in the world did you get that idea?? Honda was not mentioned even once in the article! Did you even bother reading the article?? Else you would have realised that its a roadster by Funke & Will, not Honda.

]]> By: SatriaGuy http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52754 SatriaGuy Sat, 07 Oct 2006 17:02:58 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52754 The Yes is based on the Nissan 350Z. But just look at how the Germans made it look even better! The Yes is based on the Nissan 350Z.

But just look at how the Germans made it look even better!

]]> By: raybrig85 http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52750 raybrig85 Sat, 07 Oct 2006 16:29:26 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52750 izit replacement 4 s2000?? izit replacement 4 s2000??

]]> By: Gallardo1988 http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52746 Gallardo1988 Sat, 07 Oct 2006 15:07:29 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52746 I'd settle for the atom.. =).. haha.. its WILD.. it goes like MAD.. and hell yeah.. It looks better.. =).. but it would be totally madness to drive it here.. By the time u reach your destination, you'd be a few shades darker.. SAD... and ud probably smell like exhaust fumes.. Wonder what would happen if they shove this 3.2 litre engine into the ariel.. I'd settle for the atom.. =).. haha.. its WILD.. it goes like MAD.. and hell yeah.. It looks better.. =).. but it would be totally madness to drive it here.. By the time u reach your destination, you'd be a few shades darker.. SAD… and ud probably smell like exhaust fumes.. Wonder what would happen if they shove this 3.2 litre engine into the ariel..

]]> By: DtG http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52739 DtG Sat, 07 Oct 2006 14:01:25 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52739 looks like they used the bmw z4 as a platform..... looks like they used the bmw z4 as a platform…..

]]> By: mitlanevo http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52734 mitlanevo Sat, 07 Oct 2006 13:07:41 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52734 Great car, but I prefer NO..... If I want a convertible, BMW 645Ci will be my car. But somehow, did u guys notice that the taillights are similar to Mitsubishi Eclipse's? Great car, but I prefer NO…..

If I want a convertible, BMW 645Ci will be my car.

But somehow, did u guys notice that the taillights are similar to Mitsubishi Eclipse's?

]]> By: e-nabilll http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52733 e-nabilll Sat, 07 Oct 2006 13:05:23 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52733 wat a name ! sound like a comedy show! wat a name ! sound like a comedy show!

]]> By: exodust http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52728 exodust Sat, 07 Oct 2006 12:25:22 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52728 @maibatsu_thunder: In case you didn't know, the costs of creating masterpieces like these are at least in the hundred millions. I don't think there is a carmaker out there who wouldn't want to make a car that only has one sole pupose, that is to race. @maibatsu_thunder: In case you didn't know, the costs of creating masterpieces like these are at least in the hundred millions. I don't think there is a carmaker out there who wouldn't want to make a car that only has one sole pupose, that is to race.

]]> By: aesthari http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52715 aesthari Sat, 07 Oct 2006 11:08:58 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52715 Nice, the styling is subtle for performance car like it. Nice, the styling is subtle for performance car like it.

]]> By: maibatsu_thunder http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52714 maibatsu_thunder Sat, 07 Oct 2006 11:03:15 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52714 I'd rather go for the Tommy Kaira ZZ, now being built as the Leading Edge 240RT, 29,355 pounds sterling for the 240horse version, 22,995 for the 160 horse version. But if weatherproofing isn't a concern - why not just go for an Ariel Atom, Strathcarron SC5A or a Brooke 200/260/300 Double R or the good old Caterham Seven? I really wonder why no 'carmaker' in Malaysia has the stones to do something even remotely like this. Lightweight, respectable power, good handling. I'd rather go for the Tommy Kaira ZZ, now being built as the Leading Edge 240RT, 29,355 pounds sterling for the 240horse version, 22,995 for the 160 horse version. But if weatherproofing isn't a concern – why not just go for an Ariel Atom, Strathcarron SC5A or a Brooke 200/260/300 Double R or the good old Caterham Seven?

I really wonder why no 'carmaker' in Malaysia has the stones to do something even remotely like this. Lightweight, respectable power, good handling.

]]> By: Charger http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52713 Charger Sat, 07 Oct 2006 10:53:10 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52713 Lotus Exige FTW! Lotus Exige FTW!

]]> By: armandd http://paultan.org/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52700 armandd Sat, 07 Oct 2006 06:40:01 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/07/funke-will-yes-roadster/#comment-52700 a civilised version of the ariel atom. a civilised version of the ariel atom.

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