not all people think the same. just remember that. said it once and thats it.. but now u kept repeating the same sentiment of hard bashing and brushing aside other people's point of view like u own the world or some shit like that.

who are u to influence me/other people? dont get too far dude. try to chill down or u really should consider committing suicide for world peace.

disel car is the best for budget consumer. able to drive bigger car instead of driving an unsafe kelisa simply to save pocket, just a bit of trade off on r tax , but once a year,

performance a bit let down, but 3000 rpm capable of 140 0r 160. batter init rather than the buzzing 4500s .more with td.

a cup of disel please….

give it a rest lar. if u dislike a particular brand/person, then laugh it off or top it off once and for all and move on. its not the end of the world. but if u kept barking on the same issue over and over again…

its annoying.

"Lastly, moving forward, ………………."

"This is KelvC, signing out."

—————-

Joe Ooi,

If moving forward, why "signing out"? Or straight to the point – "Shift Out" 0r "KO-Knock Out"?

A determine guy and righteous person even DOWN but never OUT! Still have to climb up, that is so call struggle in our life. Talk a little bit in Paul Tan Blog "signing out" already – very "small air"! Do you hear Westerner said – "If can't beat them joint them". That a few word for you.

Ahemmmm…….., anyway I am just like you a visitor to PT Blog, and Paul Tan never authorized or consented to me to act or talk on behalf of him. But I strongly believe, and always believe in the event you decided to make a comeback, Paul Tan as a landlord always welcome you……..

Lastly, just to let you know that if I want to pries open on your last post like you’re guessing on P1 car market in UK, it just like open up a Pandora box – "all-hell-get-loose". Believe me or not ……. it is very and 100% constructive – why you proposed something with 99% risk that may need to do it under hot sun – likely get water canon from FRU and doesn't reflect our peace loving people attitude.

Some more want to bring in CNN, BBC, Al-Jazeera and others! Very funny, is that say "power window failured" in Joe Ooi's Waja car has any newsworthy in international event? Just wonder this kind of nitty-gritty issue can attract how many international audiences and/or how much income can generate to them? Very un-realistic talking.

Anyway, I can propose a very constructive yet peace of mind with at most 1% risk to overcome this. Just to borrow from Martin Luther King famous phrase – "I have a dream" – One day (2010) I have a dream I will take back my consumers right of "free to choose" under FTA rather than currently "force to choose" under NAP by just do a very basic and conscience "DIY" action from the comfort of sofa in aircond living in my house – STOP THE BUYING!

Why need to approach assembly man, P1, MITI or sleeping MP – Shout about "Mer-De-Ka", they are sleeping. Shout about "Mau-Duit-Kah", mata terbuka!!!!!!!!!!!

You mentioned “if not shut up”, so I interprete it as far as Savvy power window not fail, I will “shut-up” (indeed I never condemn about Savvy window). So I still reserved my right to “shout” on other aspects of Savvy or other models within P1 product inventory."

————–

asimo said,

“u not own savvy and can make a conclusion that savvy also a power window problem..haiya…….."

————–

So, the above is my statement but below is your conclusion, not mine as my statement is self-explanantory – I never condemn about Savvy power window failure. So the burden is on you to retract or remedy your statement…….. Good luck to you asimo……..

"mycar_stolen , do you know that savvy use the same Renault Quickshift5 gearbox and engine with the Renault Clio which is very sucessful in Europe?"

———————

mycar_stolen said,

"Savvy is Proton and Clio is Renault it is a total different thing. One is a car with award winning engine, formula one champion constructor and the other one is only “milo tin on wheels” or “coffin car” not to play role as a car or transportation but only to give big money to the G."

———————

Joe Cole said,

"a nother BLIND BASHER…………..never test or drive savvy and condem easyly….

why aa jealous lol??the imort thing is savvy is no more tin milo…your car is tin milo thats why your car is stolen lol….for use as besi buruk….

wah…………the important thing is savvy is generated by renault engine..that is the truth…”DO YOU THINK RENAULT ENGINEER WILL AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY SHARING”if no why the give the akses?hahhaha…crazy statement ……dude….it is a good colabration between proton and renault…a 1.2 engine can go up to 170kmh with a good stability!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!."

————————-

Joe Ooi said,

The Renault Clio III using latest engine (3-door model) was launched in UK market on 15th October 2005, and 5-door was introduced in Jan 2006. Clio II model fitted with DF4 engine was introduced in 1998 and cease production in 2005. The D4F engine is acquired by P1 to be fitted into it Savvy model. P1 procures this outdated Renault engine to be “re-cycled”, re-package and re-launched it in 8th June 2005 by dump this junk into Malaysian market and claim as a “brand new product fitted with new engine”.

So, Savvy use outdated Clio II engine ………… Use latest Clio III engine! maybe in future waite another 8 year until Clio IV out……….

people who loves car and appreciate cars within their capapacity its an enjoyable hobby,

but yes we hope for a change, time can tell, wheather the tiger will perish,

…………still like that tiger.

why aa jealous lol??the imort thing is savvy is no more tin milo…your car is tin milo thats why your car is stolen lol….for use as besi buruk….

wah…………the important thing is savvy is generated by renault engine..that is the truth…"DO YOU THINK RENAULT ENGINEER WILL AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY SHARING"if no why the give the akses?hahhaha…crazy statement ……dude….it is a good colabration between proton and renault…a 1.2 engine can go up to 170kmh with a good stability!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

October 16, 2006 @ 2:04 pm

mycar_stolen , do you know that savvy use the same Renault Quickshift5 gearbox and engine with the Renault Clio which is very sucessful in Europe?

Savvy is Proton and Clio is Renault it is a total different thing. One is a car with award winning engine, formula one champion constructor and the other one is only "milo tin on wheels" or "coffin car" not to play role as a car or transportation but only to give big money to the G.

If you drive Renault you have the right to be at F1 races, if you drive Proton go away… you are making the race cheap..because that is what you are..cheap overprice metal on wheels that make masian life no price…

errrr DO YOU THINK RENAULT ENGINEER WILL AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY SHARING. A BIG NO…this rojak Proton will not do any good…but keep posting I just dont like to see the tiger head emblem…look stupid and useless

STOP BUYING PROTON…no more new PROTON TO BE REGISTERED

this video show how good savvy it is..enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXcCxhht-y4

Joe Ooi said,

October 13, 2006 @ 11:36 pm

asimo said, “u aready test or own savvy??is it u having a power window problem with savvy?if not just shut up!!!!”

————-

Joe oiii said

aiyoyo, I experience it for Iswara and Waja models, and test the freaking power window failuresssssssss (not plural, but 1001-ral) bad experience. About Savvy, never own and also never heard Savvy owners complaint about it but ask me to teest or own it definitely big NO NO as even the good power also won’t influence me to buy it simply because this car design is SUCK …… especially turtle shape backside. You mentioned “if not shut up”, so I interprete it as as far as Savvy power window not fail, I will “shut-up” (indeed I never condemn about Savvy window). So I still reserved my right to “shout” on other aspects of Savvy or other models within P1 product inventory.

By the same principle look at yous previous post at 2007 Daihatsu Materia as shown below: -

http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/08/2007-daiha…

asimo said, October 8, 2006 @ 8:16 pm

“kereta mayat ooooooooooooooooooooooo”

“u aready test or own Daihatsu Materia?? is it u having a power window problem with Materia? if not just shut up!!!!

Or, since you “shout out” without test or own Materia, I also can comment as follow: – O O kereta mayat ah? This small size kereta mayat just nice to fit in dwaft 1.20 Meter SHORT robot !!!!!!!!!!!!

_____________________________________________

Hello MR Joe Oii

So u not own a new batch of proton,(Savvy Or Neo) then u complain about the power window..yes,u not inform what type of the proton car…we are talking about savvy here…so when u talking about proton cars,it also reflecte to proton…this is what u said…."So failed P1 “power window”! spoiled absorber, etc? "u not own savvy and can make a conclusion that savvy also a power window problem..haiya……..

another think,i comment about that daihatsu car about the design,not the power window problem or absober problem or etc…i just condem the suck design from them,which like a kereta mayat……u know kereta mayat??

ok bye bye Joe Oii..Take Care…..luv u…na na na na…..

Like many others, both you and I drives a Proton, therefore I anxiously wait for new updates from this manufacturer be it officially or just word of mouth. Everytime you post a Proton update naturally I would read that post first before venturing to the other materials. The news you have posted earlier regarding the possibility of Proton joint venturing with Petronas and Volkswagen (of course others too) raised my interest further of the possibility that this “son” of ours may make good after all. Despite the collapse in talk by these parties, it has been a good updates from you and many others too.

There has been many comments on Proton doesn’t hear the commentors feedbacks hence venting anger in the forums but truly how many of us really provide the right feedback to the right channels? To date, I have not seen a concerted effort to bring Proton and the Ministry of Transport to the fore and ensure they receive the word of the majority that we want (1) safe, (2) secure, and (3) affordable mode of transportation (if this is without Proton then so be it!). Have any of us actually written to Proton, the Cabinet or even the press to voice your dissatisfaction? Write to your State Assemblymen Representative, or anyone else for the matter, afterall General Election could be near so what better time to have this raised and squeezed!

Alternatively, if you have zero confidence on your reps and to ensure that your views are brought to the fore, the most effective way would be picketing in front of the Proton HQ and the Parliament simultaneously with the major news network invited. Forget about the local news network, bring in CNN, BBC, AlJazeera and others! I am sure many other motorists by the thousands (more than the recent Black Sunday at KLCC) would wave their flags and raise the banners the moment organizers put the word out. I am sure someone here might take up the challenge, let us know where and when and we’ll be there too!

Like many Proton owners out there, I too have my own problems with my car but that doesn’t mean I should or could burn my car like JClackson because I would have to think of the cause/effect too; i.e. environment, my wallet, neighbors, local authorities, etc.

Lastly, moving forward, I would like to suggest putting up a “do-and-cannot-do-on-the-Forum” to maintain civility and at least everyone has a chance to provide feedbacks within civilized boundaries. The flaming and bashing here is just too …… deconstructive.

This is KelvC, signing out.

———-

Aiya, still bark a wrong tree with a wrong reason. P1 do the shitting, you can't blame rakyat make noise on the stinking smell, but have to ask P1 clear the shit!

1. "nobody said proton is the best. in every business, in every product, in any country.. there’s problem.

2. all we have to do is chill down a little on issues and move on."

————–

Totally agree with you 200% on the 1st point. Anywhere and anything got problems, and man made problems (P1) shall come with solutions, not cover it and ask other party (rakyat) to take the burden and suffer as a result of this manmade (P1) problems.

Not only Proton is not the best, even BMW, Mercs or Toyota also not the best and can't claim the best of the best trophy (at least this is still 3 horse race). But the sad truth about P1 is despite rakyat support and use of tax payer money, it make the problems from bad to become worst! Again your 2nd statement on "we have to do is chill down a little on issues and move on" demonstrate you bark a wrong tree with a wrong reasons. The right tree with a right reason for you to bark is if P1 is good enough (but not perfect or the best), NAP have to be dismantled, P1 have to improve quality and to be competitive enough to fight in oversea market to bring back Euro, GBP, USD, Yen,Yuan, Rupee, Rupiah, Baht, Peso, Sing Dollar, etc to enrich our nation. Not suck RM like nobody biz to sustain its existence! Think of what P1 can do in corporate social responsibility by contribute to the nation wealth and protect rakyat welfare! THIS IS THE REAL DEAL DUDE!

theres no point yapping about the same topic over and over again without considering other aspect in growth and progress. dont just look on the down side of the matter. be neutral.

talk about good cars.. then talk about the high end brand from the world class makers. even honda and toyota took years to get to what it is now, so dont expect proton or perodua to have the same build quality or same top of the range performance. perdana is no camry and neo is no jazz.

again, all we need to do is stop the senseless bashing and move on and have some respect of others in making your voice heard.

cheers.

October 14, 2006 @ 12:34 am

"I had enough of this mindless bashing, ………………..

—————————————-

Joe Ooi – O O, "self confession" ah, ah, aaaah ……. See-see and look-look who is the real mindless guy in this blog with self confession c/w evident.

—————————————-

KelvC said, October 12, 2006 @ 10:55 pm

The fact here is Proton UK could not dictate the designing of the core car hence they would have to market it according to the UK market environment. The diversity of the UK market environment allows the marketers to pick and position their product offering in accordance to the available market segment. My best guess is they’re targeting the following groups:

1. Migrant community as mentioned earlier.

2. Pensioners – limited funding however require private transportation (similar to the group #1, especially if living in the rural areas therefore the AMT sounds good here)

3. Whoever wants to look for car OTR £6k-£8k cash.

4. Modders who needs “low entry cost” vehicle and write off later.

In every sports or even movies I’ve always cheered for the underdogs, having said that, I’m not giving my lunch box away.

—————————————————–

Joe Ooi,

Look at The CIA World Factbook

The CIA World Factbook is one of the best geographic resources on the Internet. It is a collection of maps, flags, and comprehensive geographic information for every country and territory in the world (over 270 entries).

Click on: http://geography.about.com/library/cia/blcindex.h…

MALAYSIA

GDP (Purchasing Power Parity): USD 229.3 billion (2004 est.)

GDP – real growth GDP growth rate: 7.1% (2004 est.)

GDP per capita: USD 9,700 (2004 est.)

UNITED KINGDOM (UK)

GDP (Purchasing Power Parity): USD 1,782 billion (2004 est.)

GDP – real growth GDP growth rate: 3.2% (2004 est.)

GDP per capita: USD 29,600 (2004 est.)

Now look at entry level car for Proton’s cars selling price:

1. Savvy: 1.2 Street = £5,995 (MT), 1.2 Style £6,995 (MT); £7,695 (AMT)

2. The exchange rate is £ 1 = USD 1.85560 = RM 6.8247

(Source: http://www.xe.com/ucc/ )

The following are “realistic” assumption: –

Say Savvy is the economic sub-compact car entry level target at the low income group.

Malaysian motorist on average use approximately 30% of their income to acquire car for the reason best known to them or suite their budget.

So, GDP per capita: USD 9,700 (2004 est.) x 30% = USD 2,910 (RM 10,767) or RM 897.25 per month for installment, petrol, insurance, maintenance, etc. which is consider conservative estimate.

Say based on same percentage, UK consumers on average spent 30% of their income on car.

So, GDP per capita: USD 29,600 (2004 est.) x 30% = USD 8,880 (RM 32,560) or RM 2,713 per month. Same that this figure is consider “conservative”.

Therefore, the ratio on Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) for UK and Malaysia motorist is 3:1. Since Savvy selling price is approximately same in Malaysia and UK market, but when factor in the PPP the level of affordability in UK is approximately 3 times more than Malaysia. So in UK, the same level of “affordability” when factor in the PPP = RM 40,000.00 x 3 = RM 120,000.00.

Therefore, any car price up to RM 120,000.00 (£ 17,600.00) in UK is considered “entry level” and/or economical car targeted at low income group. So, by UK standard, the car considered “entry level” and “affordable” (below £ 17,600.00) may include but not necessary limited to the following: -

Source: http://cds.virtual-showroom.co.uk/scripts/newVehi…

1. BMW – 116I Hatchback 5d 1596 cc (£ 15,250)

2. Daihatsu Sirion – 1.3 Hatchback 5d 1295 cc (£ 7,952)

3. Honda Jazz – 1.2i – DSI S Hatchback 5d 1246cc (£ 8,112)

4. Honda Civic – 1.8i – VTEC ES Hatchback 5d 1798 cc (£ 14,987)

5. Hyundai Accent – 1.3 GSi Hatchback 5d 1341 cc (£ 8,134)

6. Hyundai Getz – 1.1 GSi Hatchback 5d 1086 cc (£ 8,134)

7. Kia Picanto – 1.0 S Hatchback 5d 999 cc (£ 5,307)

8. Renault Clio – 1.2 16v 75 Authentique Hatchback 5d 1149 cc (£ 9,087)

9. Toyota Aygo – 1.0 VVT-I Hatchback 5d 998 cc (£ 6,372)

10. Toyota Yaris – 1.0 VVT-I Ion Hatchback 5d 998 cc (£ 7,827)

Now look at your statements and my comment on your opinions: -

1. Migrant community – they are mostly from Indian sub-continent especially Pakistan but to a lesser extent Africa whose body built is on average big frame. Even if they are the target, but they have plenty of choice given that the “entry level” and “affordable” car in UK are those prices below GBP 18,000 (including BMW 1 series). Furthermore, the migrants profile over there is different from Malaysia. In our country, most of the migrants are Indon low skills and low educated people mostly involved in construction, plantation and other manual job categories. In UK, those migrants are mostly well educated and professional workforce with high income only welcome and permitted to be PR or citizen of UK. So your guess will remain a guessing – perhaps P1 marketing guy also don’t have this kind of guessing without basis.

2. Pensioners – remembered that Savvy is classified as low entry with economic fuel consumption car design for city driving (perhaps they has add advantage on “lotus handling”). So, this type of car should be targeted at students, lady, second car or third car owner. Talk about pensioner perhaps it is valid through observation in 1990s. Although Proton Saga is intended to appeal to low budget car at large, but it happen to be attracted and majority of the owners of Saga is pensioners, just like Satria GTI attracted considerable number of lady and young driver. So you mentioned P1 car like Savvy, Gen-2, Impian are all mass production car (suppose for general market) with market aim of pensioners? It is just “co-incident” that unfortunately it attracted a “fraction” of the buyers as mentioned above. That is why the % sold in UK is negligible (i.e. 0.12 %).

3. Whoever want to look for car OTR £ 6 to £ 8 k cash. First the range given is not valid (shall be below £18k) and second even with this range UK’s consumers have plenty of choice offered by competitors.

4.Modders who needs “low entry cost” vehicle and write off later. Modders! I interpreted it as those who want to modify their car for reason(s) best known and suite to their “taste”. It can be for drifting, illegal racing, for show off, to be different from other owners, etc. But fairly to said not for top speed or more than 200 km/h given the size of the car and engine. Since Savvy is good in handling, so drifting is one of the possibility. If this is the case, I don’t think it is the choice of UK guys to mod Savvy for this purpose given their deep pocket and choices available. Even back home, our “drifting king”, non other than the son of former CEO of P1, Tengku Djan did not chose the Savvy but cling to his trusty 22 year old Toyota Trueno. For his opinion, drifting does not required powerful engine or “lotus handling” but “to stay in control” of the car.

Normally good marketing planning and strategy might encompass but not necessary limited to the following factors: -

1. Matrix on products & geographical area – Can be existing product at existing or new location, or new products at existing or new locations.

2. Pricing strategic – (a) low entry cost to acquire the product like “£ 1” offer. (b) lowest/competitive pricing. (c) give out “freebies” or the like to entice potential buyers, etc.

3. Based on demography, age group, income range, buyer’s budget, “affordability”, single, family, etc.

4. Market preferences and expectation in term of type of vehicle (sedan, SUV, Truck, MPV, etc), quality, specs, design, styling, pricing, trend and attractive features.

5. Segmentation – mass market at large with lowest price or niche market with premium price.

6. Market environment like competitive “market price”, interest rates, percentage of loan allowed (i.e. up to 90%) and tenure (repayment period).

7. Good sales after service or second hand value of the products.

So, if this “constructive solutions for marketing plan” as forwarded by you if ever reach to the top management of P1. MD SZ will straightaway shoot down this guessing and throw it into dust bin! You can say what you want including always cheered for the underdogs, but having taken into consideration all aspects, who ever accept your opinions or ideas, he will go no where or always a loser!

"…. and tahat joe oi still talking about power window in any proton topic..

what a pity basher. good news still bad news for then.. even worse.. they had a bad stinky mouth and black heart.."

Simply can't agree with you because talk about "power window failured" is a fact that I experience for approximately 10 years out of using 12 year P1 car. Do you think talk about power window failure tantamount to and constitute as "bad stinky mouth and black heart". I can't agree with you 200%, but if you want to continue talk like that, don't "bark at the wrong tree with wrong reasons". The "right tree and right reason" for you to bark is the power window vendor who make the lousy component. Why shoot at me alone as there are hundred of thousand out there who talk about this? And why target and select me only? Perhaps your own statement applicable to you.

what a pity basher. good news still bad news for then.. even worse.. they had a bad stinky mouth and black heart..

i give credit on proton.. how hard the way Syed Zainal handle that hot seat.

Gud luck proton.. wish next year the Neo will make next hit record again in UK. The car that some people claim 'tak cukup tinggi' for them those 5.9ft something.. err but do they knew ferrari also 'not enough tinggi space?, even any other sportcar out there?'.

Oh.. that's typically BASHERS as well.. nmind

October 14, 2006 @ 12:34 am

"I had enough of this mindless bashing, as much as I would like to abandon this “son” of ours but, like reality, we’re stuck through thick and thin. If you’re a parent, go figure how to reeducate this unfilial “son” of yours too."

Joe Ooi – Easy and simple only, to re-educate this unfilial "son" is stop spoon feeding and unnecessary protection. Throw and dump far away from home this grown-up son. When this unfilial son find out no-automatic feeding (local consumer), home protection and take away crutches (NAP), as the case in UK, then he know how to think of survival by doing a good job – give best quality at low price. That very simple mah, what a big fuse, the only irritating is he give his energy to look after other country wellbeing, which forget that he growth up by eating and shitting at Bolehland. Anak kera dihutan disusukan, anak sendiri mati kebuluran dirumah – so this unfilial son not deserve the title of "national icon" or be given "national car status"!

———————-

The difference about bickering amongst in-laws is the verbal diarrhea which will go with the wind and never kept to heart. Whereas online, it is permanently recorded like a sore record forever blemished with no redeeming value.

Joe Ooi – What you mean by "no redeeming value" since it is a burden, liability and cost a lot of tax payer money!

The fastest P1 get out of business is better because this is the biggest parasite ever found in Bolehland that keep on sucking blood. It is better to bite the bullet, cut the losses from accumulating as it is economically not viable. We are developing country. We can’t afford to dump so much money (i.e. “subsidize” the price or dumping price) in developed country (e.g. UK and Australia) for the sake of P1 car saleable at the expanse of local consumer wellbeing but looking after rich country’s people welfare. This country is belong to future generation and we just “borrow” from them. We can’t left debt, liability and hopelessness to future generation but wealth, opportunity and bright future!

————–

Lastly, I drive an Iswara ‘98 daily which requires major overhaul so don’t lecture me about Proton. I too am waiting for 2010 like everyone else. I’m gonna enjoy watching Nanny tonight on Hallmark.

Joe Ooi – So, don't lecture you about P1, enjoy kah with your 98 Iswara? I believed you talk thing definitely not based on your Iswara experience! So what is your real agenda, better watching Nanny and enjoy it rather than your Iswara. But don't come out with "I had enough of this mindless bashing" by employ "blame-shifting" dirty tactic as try to "cover out your foul mouth and seal-off your stinking @@$hole" yet let other P1's victims to bear the burden on pay high price, low quality yet unsafe car that put the their life very "cheap" on the road. Remembered you are one of the victim as well since you drive 98 Iswara – "Milo-Tin-On-The-Wheel".