The party days are over BOD of Proton….serve them right and so are the foreign car prices.

We'll see how it is going to perform under foreign ownership.

The current goverment rules !

Comparing NAP n Thailand's Auto Policy, its too early to comment. NAP is providing a long term solutions, whereesle Thai AP is just exist as a manufacturing base ( short term ), which easily been overtake by Vietnam, Laos or Philippines once their economy and political situation improvised in 2~3 years time.

Despite all the happenings up north ( Thai ), the manufacturers are still looking to English speaking countries to position their operations, Rnd and administration.

But opening the economy is a very interesting agenda to all of us msian. By then the corporations can really compete in providing the best products and services to consumer.

Merdeka Merdeka Merdeka…….Pajak Gadai bisnes ada……

Take in case of Malaysian entities that successfull in oversea like Jimmy Choo (London) and Zhang Toi (New York). Not forgeten my favourite local cartoon LAT with main theme of Kampong Boy even can penetrate international market that has its own nitche market if not rival Mickey Mouse.

Our countries are not lack of resources, talents and expertise to be world class players. Take the case of Maxis, Digi, Public Bank, IOI, Southern Bank, etc are among the best manage as survey doe by Asian Wall Street Journal. Even at least some these companies become regional player if not conquer the world. In strictly free economy perspective, they recognize the best player in it class but not tolerate inefficiency and malpractice. Free economy theritically are the proponent of wealth creation, not "white elephant" projects that drain the public coffer and create liability to the nation.

In the case of P1, it is not "national icon" but shameful and failure project that need to find foreign partner (just like Perodua) to turnaround its fortune, especially in acquiring technological know how. If P1 want to do it alone, then it have to pour in perhaps billion to set up design centre in Frankfurt, R & D in Silicon Valley to monitor and capture latest technology, or send Engineer to oversea for training and acquire auto engineering know how. Do P1 have the capacity and monetary resources to do so? What the "Centre of Excellency" at Shah Alam costing around RM 100 Million and R & D Centre at Tanjung Mlaim can produce? Can they become best centre of design like Frankfurt or best R & D centre like Silicon Valley? What they have at Shah Alam and Tanjung Malim plant at Bernam Valley that was previously part of "Hutan Simpanan".

Look at Merc, even their annual R & D budget is more than USD 3 Billion, but for P1 the R & D facilities & Research budget as shown in website is "peanut" RM 28 Million for year 02/03. So, it is a sensible move to tie up with foreign partner to overcome its weakness in this aspect. Nothing to lose (including so call "national pride") but everything to gain from this tie up. This is because P1 is not good. If P1 is good, then this shall not be the case. P1 should conquere the world market to bring back foreign currency to enrich our Bolehland. The naked sad fact for P1 export market is dumping RM at oversea market by selling better quality, higher specs and lower price at "subsidy" basis if taken into consideration CBU unit, logistic cost, etc.

For Thailand, they don't have "National car", yet they become ASEAN regional hub for automotive industry and can export more than 200,000 units annualy to earn foreign currency. In our countries, we have P1, P2, Naza even Inokom, yet most of it are rebadge cars but export is less than 20,000 units per annum! What a shameful crappy NAP protective policy.

DO remember, we must do it in order to make our fellow Malaysian consumer happy and satisfied with consumer's product.

I relly hope this will be a case study in future economic subject, whether the country's economy will lingkup or not if they sell their GLC.

Local Vs Foreign Partners/Operators…..Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka…….Semua Kasi Gadai La………

http://www.cheryglobal.com/Upcoming%20Products.ht…

Hopefully Proton can give us better quality cars, more safety and FUNCTIONAL features at an affordable price.

1) Developing R&D facilities

2) R&D spending

3) Developing own engine (Campro but without Cam Profiling System or Variable Length Intake Manifold)

4) Developing own cars – Waja, Gen2, Savvy

5) Sticking a big thundercat logo on Kenny Roberts GP bikes

6) Selling bicycles

Now they are going to just rebadge VW, PSA, Chery and Mitsubishi cars? Where were the Koreans in 1984 and where are they now? So, correct me if I'm wrong, now Proton is negotiating (with four parties) on how to rebadge cars like Perodua (rebadged Daihatsu) is doing now.

http://malaysia-today.net/blog2006/newsncom.php?i…

See whose writing is more consistent with it – I view this matter from free economics perspective whilst you look it from freak Protonomic point of view!

Even if VW were to buy 51% stake of proton, please abolish the NAP and protection for local car manufacturers, make Malaysia a level playing field for all car manufacturers. Let us the ordinary Malaysian have a right to choose the make and model of our choice not forced to choose with limited makes.

P1 once sold have to go for major makeover and rebranding (no more thunder cat logo). We all literally grew up with Proton being the spoiled child.

Why we in Malaysia have been paying alot more for a lousy QC Proton car when the foreigners have always been enjoying superior quality Proton at a cheaper cost than us? We are fed up of subsidising Proton for Mat Salleh's at our cost!

Its an implied understanding that export quality Proton is always better than the locally intended unit, Why this is so?

—————————

Joe Ooi, the key word here is being 51% control! That means the party (VW) in the event really take 51% control of P1. Look at the P1 website for investor relations section: -

http://www.proton.com/about_proton/investor_relat…

That means G will sale the 51% control stake that are likely come from Khazanah (38.32%), EPF (10.93%) and PNB (6.50%)! Further check shown that currently foreigner own 19.29% while Malaysian own 80.71% of P1 share.

In the event say VW take 51% controlling stake, that means total foreigner ownership of P1 share will increase to = 51% + 19.29% = 70.29%! and Malaysian left with 29.71%. So, there is no such thing as 51%:49% arrangement?

So what Xoomie said is highly credible and have a strong basis: -

“Xoomie said,

"Hold that orgasmic squerk !

This “news” was just to stimulate market share & Ploton itself.

There were no LOI, MOU and VW has not even responded to confirm this.”

“Sorry with my bro,Joe Ooi.Please dont take care too much about his comment.I dont know whats wrong with him…Sorry guys… “

—————————————

Ahemm, ……. another “personal attacked” – Joe Cole, look like you want and I will give you “bloody nose”.……………. Sorry to say the following:-

1. I have done medical check-up and carry out self-assess psychological test before. The doctor finding and certify that I am of sound mind and psychological test indicated that I have relatively “IQ level above average”. So, scientifically, I am of normal person and nothing wrong with me.

2. So, your statement clearly said that you don’t know what wrong with me …… BUT still “KNOW” to come up with “don’t take care too much about his comment” – A totally self-contradictory accusation.

3. So, nothing wrong with me as I clarified in item (1) above. Therefore, definitely something very wrong with you as mentioned in item (2).

CONCLUSION – Neither something wrong with me nor I am failed to convey my message in my comment. But something very wrong with you – your foul and dirty mouth cock talking on all rubbish ……… or Cantonese term it as “Sek-Si-Oo-Fan” (literally means “eating stinking faeces but shitting rice”). Sorry to you that I have to come out with this comment.

Back to topic – in the VW come in as new partner to P1, it is a blessing to all parties. Be it P1, consumers and the long-term growth for our auto industry as a whole. The only parties who are scare may include but not limited to those “dead wood” in P1 or the croc, AP king, cronies, etc.

check this out.

http://hsinyi82.multiply.com/video/item/4

http://hsinyi82.multiply.com/video/item/3

http://hsinyi82.multiply.com/video/item/2

joe ooi..even if ur comments r gud and full of fact plus complicated…the basic fact is none of our country products or government companies makes money unless u give them free way of makin money like petronas…

———————————

Joe Ooi,

So, below are quote from unanimous e-mail I received that may partly if not wholly answer your argument: -

Mathematics, Malaysian-style

"I find it most alarming that Malaysian schools teach our children the wrong things. I mean: can the children really apply what they are taught in school later in life? For example, can you imagine a mathematics question in a recent examination as follows?

"If an egg costs fifty Sen, and if you buy one-eighth of the egg, how much would you have to pay?" Who in heaven's name will want to buy one-eighth of an egg? The shopkeeper will probably think you are crazy and he will be equally stupid to break the egg and measure one-eighth for you. Yet, this is how they structure the questions in Malaysian schools. Why not pose questions that would be more useful later in life when you go out into the world to earn your living?

To help Malaysia's Ministry of Education bet to face the realities of life, we are suggesting some questions they could use in our classrooms.

QUESTION 1

If your "political related company is awarded a RM150 million government contract, and you make a 20% profit, how much profit would be at the end of the contract period?

ANSWER (Choose one)

1. I will not be making a 20% profit as I would have to pay the Minister 10% and Croc/crony 5%.

2. I would make 30% profit, which is the progress payment I receive, after which I will abandon the project and let the government call for a re-tender.

3. My company will not make any profit at all as I will siphon out all the profits and show a loss to avoid paying corporate tax.

QUESTION 2

If the national petroleum company, Petronas, pays a 5% royalty to Terengganu State and if the amount paid is RM800,000,000 per year, how much should Petronas have in the bank accumulated over the last 25 years?

ANSWER (Choose one)

1. Nobody is supposed to know as Petronas need not show its accounts to anyone except the Prime Minister and this information comes under the Official Secrets Act.

2. Petronas earns only 50% of its petroleum revenue from Terengganu so Petronas' total income accumulated in the banks over 25 years should be

RM800 billion.

3. Petronas has nothing accumulated in the bank as all the money has spent bailing out companies and finance mega projects.

"To be continued"

Perfect example to end all debate is Korea, take a look at Korea or even a trip to South Korea and see what cars are the majority on their roads. Korean cars make up I bet about 75% of the vehicles on the road, working class to the upper rich people drive a Korean car of some sorts and the question is why ?

I think they also have a scheme like here were their cars are protected but I heard its not that much cheaper than a foreign car. So it came down to choice they chose their own countries car because they are proud of it. They can rely on their own cars it and it was of a quality that can you believe was better than that of the export quality Korean cars. Drive a Proton in the UK or Australia and you wont kena all the nonsense like battery dying after one month or this or that leaking. The fact is they give us crap here and none of us are proud of Proton as a national vehicle. Its been a laughing stock inside and outside of Malaysia for years its about time it gets cleaned up.

This "news" was just to stimulate market share & Ploton itself.

There were no LOI, MOU and VW has not even responded to confirm this.

1. NOT every company or products in Malaysia is losing money. Don't make non-factual statements if you don't know what you're talking about.

2. Take a good look at Pagani and tell me how long it took this car company to make a world class car competing with Ferrari and Porsche? He didn't even have Government money to build his company! Or maybe you should have a close look at the Chinese manufacturers. How many years did it take them to scare the established makers? 25 years and Proton is still a laughing stock. I guess you're very proud of that… or maybe you're working there?

3. VW will NEVER let Proton build their cars UNTIL their manufacturing quality is up to par. That means you can only dream of a Proton/Golf after 2010. Their 1st task is to ensure the quality of the current range of cars are improved. Is that a bad thing?

4. Just because one person is not liked, we the Rakyat have to lose money? The reason why so many GLC companies are losing money is a open secret. However, don't think you know the full story. I don't claim to know all but having friends within the circle have provided me with more facts. Malaysia have been lagging behind in the global arena for the past few years, allowing Thailand to improve so much. If the Gov remain to be childish, continue to fight among themselves, Indonesia is gonna overtake us as well. When are you gonna wake up and open your mind? Don't take things at eye level.

with the information more freely accessible we can now judge how proton actually performs in international markets instead of getting fed bleached news and reports by local tv's and newspapers.

im already not proud of proton long time ago so whether it falls into semi foreign control would not affect my pride towards what i beleive is good to be proud of in malaysia. i beleive proton is rubbish just like lotus and some other companies that they bought so VW or whoever can share in the headache of reviving it. i do hope cherry takes over so both of them can go down together.

just because it's something done in msia doesnt mean we have to be proud of it. like the johor bahru port city thing to compete against singapore. come on, msia doesnt even have the most important basics to compete against singapore and that is talent. and u can be sure most of our good talent is already on singapore's side or elsewhere in the world. infrastructure anybody can have it as long as you're willing to pay for it. same case as proton. thats billions more down the drain. whatever happened to port klang, west port or watever?

dont know whether any of you from other states have been to JB before or not. well..good luck in improving that city.

Prem3377

not shame on us consumers. its shame on proton and those who made the choices in its management and business dealings.

foreingn company having 49% or 51% stake in proton doesnt mean squat to most msian citizens. proton profits you get nothing. the lose some money, you lose even more money. if giving them 2% more shares can help local manufacturers maintain a healthy long lasting profit then why not. that is if the parties invovled in proton parts and assembly are not solely owned by the same few people.

PRICE? say at the SAME class ,…….. coparetively ,made in thailand or surround is cheaper, so probally just look from my HONDA FREELOOK (2 wheeled)

PARTS, do no yet?

I think they are ment to SHIP…………WESTWARDDD!!!

There are many commentators have accused P1 of being tragic, weak, opportunist and totally lacking corporate social responsibility (CSR) toward consumers and tax payers is an open secret notoriously known to the market. P1 incapable of coming out with quality and competitively price cars are a matter of fact since its inception and roll out the first Saga in 1985.

P1 had indulged in laughable behavior over the past few months as they attempted to sign many LOIs and MOUs as try to present it as the future collaboration that will yield good future in term of make profit and come out with new model. But the true fact is P1 was being "pushed the every party who enter the MOU/LOI around" and that make P1 credibility has been “sorely damaged".

The big question is – If P1 pushed around this much before they even conduct feasibility study or demonstrate genuine intention on strategic partnership, what are P1 going to be like as an automotive player? Couple with crappy NAP to serve selfish interest, its have helped define the new automotive battleground which is in long term, has detrimental effect on the healthy long term growth for local market yet do not help P1 for the next that determine its long term survival – export market.

Recent MITI/NAP assault on foreigner (Geely) intend to set up assembly plant here with 20:80 (20% for local market and 80% for export) and not allowed to assemble 1.6L and below car drew an immediate response from the foreigner (FDI) to invest in other country (Indonesia). This policy (perhaps “dirty tactic”) was "vacuous and insubstantial" and construe as P1 could not stand for a fight in its own turf. This “stone age” steps risked potential confrontation when our products export to other country. Toyota van (Hiace) case with Thailand is a good example, our Minister from MITI who are complaining and calling for Thai to cuts tax in line with CEPT – 5% yet implement non-tariff measures like AP and slap ED up to 120% when ASEAN CKD units export to our country!

This minister tried "being pushed around everyone”. She told Thai to reduce CEPT to 5% but expected Thai cannot relate to the AP and ED in negotiation – “Utterly incredible one-way ticket” negotiation – treat and expected Thai side to accept what they said just like local consumers have to accept what NAP/P1 doing. "It just becoming international joke and laughing stock. Expect oversea people to think of P1 as being strong by adopting “pushed all over the place” tactic and expected other to extend leverage and give way!

She is exaggerating our P1 as “national icon” and it is tragic that P1 feels that in order to prove that they can make cars they wants and do it by sacrifice consumers well being. Worst is P1 making this up because they want to appear tough and that's a tragic approach. In true new spirit of corporate social responsibility (CSR), "G will never be able to help P1 just by passing more laws to protect it. P1 need a “revolution” in innovation, R & D, and social responsibility toward consumers and tax payers."

Just to ponder what future hold for P1? When P1 see challenges to overcome, they suppose do not just ask what government and consumer can do and be “patriotic” to protect it. P1 must ask what they can do, what they can contribute to the society. That is what we mean by corporate social responsibility. P1 is under pressure to buck up and truly improve to counter consumers’ perception that P1 is "all talk cock and no substance".

P1 should absolutely look into strategic partnership and overseas market as its long term survival – economic competitiveness. Current practice of implementing NAP and other protective measures was a great mistake. G should think again about current laws and counter productive measures in auto sector as it would look a complete imbecile, and in fact it does. This required the calls for ED and Sales Tax at least to be slashed so as in line with FTAs or “market rates” if not totally abolished.

Taxation is necessary to generate government revenue to implement fiscal policy and funding expenditure on public services. The government has the social obligations towards citizen and redistribution of wealth to help the poorest and give people a chance to climb up the ladder is absolutely right. However, the notion that current NAP and other protective measure was going to make P1 good, then P1 would have become world class player by now after more than 20 year? But the sad fact is P1 still in limbo and need citizens’ hard earn blood and sweat money to support it hullabaloo existence!

P1 will never improve and become world class player by asking G passing more protective laws! There is no lack of policies and out pouring of public fund in the past and present to help and nurture P1. But getting ready for competition is like building a house – “preparing the ground” by start from foundation to the roof. Unfortunately, P1 still tend to be vacuous and insubstantial in it adventure. The fastest P1 get out of business or taken over by foreigner is better. Because of the oldman brainchild idea gone so awry, it is better to bite the bullet, cut the losses from accumulating as it is economically not viable. We are developing country. We can’t afford to dump so much money (i.e. “subsidize” the price or dumping price) in developed country (e.g. UK and Australia) for the sake of P1 car saleable at the expanse of local consumer wellbeing but looking after rich country’s people welfare. This country is belong to future generation and we just “borrow” from them. We can’t left debt, liability and hopelessness to future generation but wealth, opportunity and bright future!

GOOD LUCK TO P1 FOR FINALLY OPEN THEIR EYE ON POSIBILITY OF FOREIGNER PARTICIPATION IN THE FORM OF MAJORITY SHARE IN AT LEAST MANUFACTURING ARM. LET PRAY HARD THAT THIS WILL COME TRUE SO THAT THE CONSUMERS CAN SEE THE LIGHT AT THE END OF TUNNEL – RE-CLAIM BACK THEIR RIGHT OF “FREE TO CHOOSE” UNDER OPEN MARKET RATHER THAN “FORCED TO CHOOSE” UNDER CRAPPY NAP.