do u realize sumthing………more than 80% cars on the road are proton cars….how bad they are, the malaysian are continuosly support them…juz people like u'll damage the credibility of a giant company of m'sia. b +ve … if everyone giving ideas on better car design/engine instead of condem them, im sure ,they'll make better ……..

we, consumer, sometimes must be smart when choicing a car.

PROTON?? sorry man, i rather buy a second hand nissan.

juz sum time, proton is over protected by government.. & people become lazy & Quality control become worst.

maybe proton should merged with TOYOTA QC department in order to gain back their bussiness..

all they have to do is managed their 3Q, 3 quality of management, supplier quality chain & quality control on parts.

proton can't improved as long as 3Q not improved..

meanwhile for R & D side,proton should be independat already.. but still no improvement.

TOYOTA corp already become 1 of the major player in car industry coz their managed 3 Q well.

proton top management such as CEO, Director should resign & hired for the foreign CEO to saved proton again..

government should be free thinker that proton managing director suppose had the right key person & not just focussing on the managing director is just for the malaysians citizens only..

your discovery frm lowyat forum is so conflicting with this http://used-cars.autos.yahoo.com/consumerreports/…

so who is speaking the truth?

but based on total sales of toyota in EU, North America and Japan already the numbers speak for themselves. if its not reliable, i doubt consumers will go back like Pepsi motto 'Ask For More'.

Compare Toyota with P1? … Huh, huh, …….

Toyota have "steely jaw" vs. P1 has "soft crab shell"!

why u need to compare P1 and P2…???

P1 is car manufacturer..manufactured dan designed in P ..whereas P2 just assemble a japanese car……..u should compare P2 with naza or toyota assembly factory in Thailand… i believe toyota in thailand quality much better than perodua eventho both r under same Brand

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GlowJo said,

ICER! Go and pop up the hood, 1996 Wira used carburetor, 2000 used

injection system from Japan 2002 onward combination of local and Japan.

Read Toyota & Hyundai history, they are like P1 too being protected for more that 30 years. P1 has only begun their R&D in 1994. Their full fledge R&D only started after 1998. That was what I recalled from R&D open day last 2 years. And compare their manpowersize, they are 20 times bigger than P1, so that’s why P1 could not able to produce new model every year.

I have friends working with P2, they said P2 are not allowed to make major change. Like MyVi, look at the original design from Toyota Sirion/Daihatsu Boon. Their tailgate design much much better then MyVi. They are just like a slave la or prisoner…

________________________________________________________________________

To peYno & GlowJo,

Didn't you see I mention the quality of supplier?

P1, P2 even Naza, this 3 company using local supplier!

From the car their made, a big quality diferrence.

But Proton part quality is the worse among 3 company… Why their part quality can't improve? QC problem? like that so easy become QC of P1..

I also have friends wrk with P1, they said P1 QC very lose and easily pass the low quality part. => like that I better become supplier of P1 and easy earn money from P1.

Suddenly you compare P1 with Toyota & Hyundai …Haha. P1 & Toyota just look like nyamuk compare with gajah!

Please compare with local manufacture…P2 & Naza la…

If you want compare with Toyota.

Did P1 using any ISO? I say nope…. But if you refer Toyota System, TS:16949…Does P1 have a similary system as Toyota…?

The answer is Nope.

Because P1 mana ada good system same as Toyota. But did P1 willing to develop it? Already 20 years old liao… don't have good system meh.

P1 R&D begun 1994, mean P1 R&D have 10 years more experience..but what outcome from R&D..? Any new technology from P1 R&D? Campro engin only ar? Any development else? Can they develop?

Answer will be nope?

How can?

55 x 3.7854118 x .514 = 107.013591586 ???????

Adooooi, sorry have to give you F. You maths teacher must be sad. The way you calculate, are you sure the customs people songlap your money?

Jangan mare, have a cool weekend.

A simple google on "How many litrers per barrel etc" would return the following

I Petroleum Barrel = 42 US Gallons = 159 Litres

30 – 50% of crude can be refined into Gasoline = High price products

The rest are a lot cheaper, including base oil and tar etc = Low price products

Therefore I barrel = 159 liters

If I barrel of crude = USD60 x 3.6 = RM228

The crude alone costs 228/159 = RM1.43

So if you are the towkay and only 50% of the crude can result in petrol, how much do you think i litre of gasoline costs? Don't forget about refining, additives, transportation, evaporation etc cost and you will start to get the real picture.

As for me, I wouldn't settle for anything less than RM2.80

Have a nice and cool day.

Thanks Paul for your understanding.

January 27, 2007 @ 11:43 am

Government still protect Proton like protect baby who still learn to walk…

Already 20 years old, still don’t know how to walk smoothly… damm shame la.

Even P1 & P2 also use local supplier, why both quality difference a lot?

Is that P1 supplier is P1 own kar?

Now still can see New Proton WIra sell here… So funny…How many years Proton Wira sold till now.. The design & performance still unchange but can say also performance drop…

============================================

ICER! Go and pop up the hood, 1996 Wira used carburetor, 2000 used

injection system from Japan 2002 onward combination of local and Japan.

Read Toyota & Hyundai history, they are like P1 too being protected for more that 30 years. P1 has only begun their R&D in 1994. Their full fledge R&D only started after 1998. That was what I recalled from R&D open day last 2 years. And compare their manpowersize, they are 20 times bigger than P1, so that's why P1 could not able to produce new model every year.

I have friends working with P2, they said P2 are not allowed to make major change. Like MyVi, look at the original design from Toyota Sirion/Daihatsu Boon. Their tailgate design much much better then MyVi. They are just like a slave la or prisoner…

January 27, 2007 @ 11:43 am

Government still protect Proton like protect baby who still learn to walk…

Already 20 years old, still don’t know how to walk smoothly… damm shame la.

Even P1 & P2 also use local supplier, why both quality difference a lot?

Is that P1 supplier is P1 own kar?

Now still can see New Proton WIra sell here… So funny…How many years Proton Wira sold till now.. The design & performance still unchange but can say also performance drop…

====================================

why u need to compare P1 and P2…???

P1 is car manufacturer..manufactured dan designed in P ..whereas P2 just assemble a japanese car……..u should compare P2 with naza or toyota assembly factory in Thailand… i believe toyota in thailand quality much better than perodua eventho both r under same Brand

…tori tori avoided the problem?

Aiyo, you still don't my point

1) I did not post the calculation question

2) I scored "F" for my maths, F = FAIL

Anyway, below is the best I can put it to you and it is my personal

point of view ONLY, so anyone who read this please don't take my

words for it, it is just a layman comparion and I got "F" for maths.

Z is the number of farmers working in a farm, planting corns as food.

Mr.Boss, selling raw water to them so that they can survive by

watering their corns.

For each month, Mr.Boss sell a barrel of raw water digging from

own backyard with grade A fertilizer in it but it is not suitable

for plantation, so Mr.Boss sells it to overseas with the price of

X+Y value, then import another barrel of raw water with Y value

for distribution to Z farmers.

So, with my "F" maths, I got

X+Y – Y = X

So with this X value, Mr.Boss expand and develop it in other areas

like machineries, storage space, etc for good and to prepare well

in other sectors, just in case another downturn in business.

In the other hand, Z farmers still paying the same Y value for raw

water which some can't afford it because the price for fertilizer and

seeds to plant corns, food and other neccessity is also going up

at the same time too.

In other words, it is kind of out-of-balance situation and it is hard

for the farmers to carry-on daily life. That's why I said…

"the price can be lowered"

So Glowjo, Coolandy, ForestGump, Smartass Guy and Mentally

Challenged Guy it is just opinion, comments, keep down the temper,

forgive, forget and afterall we all farmers… hehehe

FYI what we argue here is not about the maths…it is about

basic sense and balance in life.

Cheers

I have been to 1st world countries, most of them are so called sincere in their daily business. Not like china laaa….

My stuff stuck at their custom yard, to get my stuff out I have to pay a quite so called handsome shake hand money…

I do not want our government turns to one more hungry government like C****.

Sorry once again to those who may concern.

Sincerely

"Smartass guy"

Already 20 years old, still don't know how to walk smoothly… damm shame la.

Even P1 & P2 also use local supplier, why both quality difference a lot?

Is that P1 supplier is P1 own kar?

Now still can see New Proton WIra sell here… So funny…How many years Proton Wira sold till now.. The design & performance still unchange but can say also performance drop…

1 US gallon = 3.7854118 liters

51.4% crude yield gasoline, the rest why don't we take count?

55 x 3.7854118 x .514 = 107.013591586 liters gasoline in a barrel.

and assume 51.4% the price of a barrel is the price of gasoline, thus

of course 48.6% percent of the barrel can be yield into other products

(refer california energy website)

0.514 x US60 = US30.84= RM111.024

So, RM111.024 divided by 107.013591586 is equal to

RM/liter = 1.0374756921486659054444942363398

In the rough calculation I have mentioned about processing fees which included the fees for additives etc etc.

That's why the rough figure should be around RM1.29 per liter.

And from the calculation, we could roughly figure out how much those companies in Malaysia has forked out profits with excessive margin.

comprendre?

Thank you

"Mentally challenged guy"

So GlowJo would not calculate and la tori tori avoided the problem? Hmmm. Forrest Gump would have googled allright and come up with the answers.

Here are the tips again.

1 USD = RM3.60

1 BBL = USD60

How many US gallons in a barrel?

How many liters in a US gallon?

How many % of crude yield gasoline?

Please don't tell me you all are mentally challenged!

Imagine this what do you say if u work in London with a salary 4000 pound and spend 400 pound for fuel? compared to working in malaysia with a salary 4000 ringgit and spend 300 pound for fuel?

Do your own calculation la tori tori bcoz u r smarter than me…

ok.. if proton still a newcomer on car manufacturer industry, then goverment should protect them… but.. almost 20years from now.. what had been done..

QC is worst.. supplier chain is even worst..

pls improved on these 2 fields before can produce goods cars.

i think proton shoulds change their supply chain .. should directly deal with the supplier without agents. Then they can cost down & compete..

if wan to survive just change the proton top management only..hehe

People hear Proton first thing they ask is power window. Power window is a very low tech item be a vendor or a non vendor item. Though vendors can be blamed but strictly speaking vendors whom contracted by Proton are considered Proton as well.

In oil and gas industries like Shell; even though offshore contractors are not Shell people, if one of the contractors got injured during offshore though it may be a contractor problem, Shell indicative performance factor will drop. Why is this? it is because contractors working for Shell are also considered Shell people.

Though it is abit off topic but the fact remains. Once bitten twice shy.

Proton will need to go alot further than just facelifting cars that is countlessly long overdue. It is still amazing to have a iswara from the 1985 chassis running till this day with countless facelifts so called upgrades.

At the end of the day sales figure will determine whether this will work or not. The Iswara used to be the cashcow. Will the Savvy be the next cashcow? They'll need to be in the next couple of months coz Perodua Viva rumoured to be launched in March to replace the Kancil and Kenari. 600cc, 800cc & 1000cc with airbags and motor flip side mirror.

EON these days don't just sale Proton. Nowadays they sell Isuzu's and Mitsubishi's. I think they see something that we don't.

I am not angry, you don't need to apologize and this is a public site,

so we agree and disagree with someone's opinion and we don't labeled

neither do we punish anyone here.

I don't even know who is "GlowJo" neither he/she knew me. I stand

where I stand and I don't care supporter or non-supporter because

he/she might been mislead, mis-calculate and anyone can comment

with respect and correct his/her comment in a polite way.

You don't need to be sad too, I DID NOT post the question and I got

"F" for my maths, that's why I keep quite. As you were saying "GlowJo"

got it wrong then you must have the correct answer to share, right?

Or, perhaps someone out there can shed some light.

We point out if there is an error (no obligation and free will) and what

I am saying we have our own "oil" in our soil (income) and I believe the

petrol we pump can be at lower price. This personal opinion is a very

simple analogy from a person like me which scored "F" for maths.

I guess "GlowJo" is a rakyat too, he got his/her rights to voice out but

maybe the calculation posted was wrong or he/she got it from somewhere

in the net that was misleading. Coupled with his/her unpolished words

I don't think he/she is spreading lies that is why in the footnote he/she said

"…Any government servant please answer this" and paultan.org required

registration to avoid anonymous post.

You too have a nice day ahead and

thanks for the cool input.

Peace

p/s Paul sorry for the off-topic. Thanks

I am sorry if I upset you. At the same time, it saddens me that you did not use the opportunity to give the correct answers. You seem more angry at the person pointing out the mistakes instead of person making the mistakes.

If it is subjective things like colors or styles, I can accept it but if someone talks about non-subjective things, they'd better be prepared.

Yes, redeem yourself. Don't let false and misleading info spread. OK, I withdraw the world idiot and hide my big fat cane. Please propose substitutes.

Have a nice and cool day