Comments on: Proton Cars Get Some International Attention http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/ Paul Tan on the Automotive Industry Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:11:59 +0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: pavithran http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-84548 pavithran Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:06:47 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-84548 I really wonder what Jeremy Clarkson has to say about this! Haha! I really wonder what Jeremy Clarkson has to say about this! Haha!

]]> By: concoursfinish http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-81384 concoursfinish Mon, 09 Apr 2007 15:33:51 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-81384 Hi All Whats going on...are the Protons you get on the home market poorer quality than here in the UK We have owned Protons for the last 8 years, the first being a 1.8 Coupe or Putra the second being a Coupe Evolution (UK only) these being tweaked by Lotus and Harry Hockley Motorsport and now we have a Gen2. Okay they are a bit rough round the edges but very rarley do they break down and when I say rarley I mean never, but it seems there are a great deal of people on here complaining. Im not saying you are wrong but from my experience and your comments it seems your cars are coming a different factory....or is quality control different for home market cars. I recently drove a new Micra when my Gen2 was in for a service and it was horendous, we bought our 1.6GSX as an ex demo with 44 miles on the clock for £6800, the micra would have cost us that and I know which car I would prefare to drive every day and its not the Micra Im interested in your comments Regards John Hi All

Whats going on…are the Protons you get on the home market poorer quality than here in the UK

We have owned Protons for the last 8 years, the first being a 1.8 Coupe or Putra the second being a Coupe Evolution (UK only) these being tweaked by Lotus and Harry Hockley Motorsport and now we have a Gen2.

Okay they are a bit rough round the edges but very rarley do they break down and when I say rarley I mean never, but it seems there are a great deal of people on here complaining.

Im not saying you are wrong but from my experience and your comments it seems your cars are coming a different factory….or is quality control different for home market cars.

I recently drove a new Micra when my Gen2 was in for a service and it was horendous, we bought our 1.6GSX as an ex demo with 44 miles on the clock
for £6800, the micra would have cost us that and I know which car I would prefare to drive every day and its not the Micra

Im interested in your comments

Regards

John

]]> By: Dogster http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74994 Dogster Thu, 22 Mar 2007 01:15:19 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74994 mrshaharin GO HAVE Alook at the new post http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/21/proton-satria-neo5/#comments and tell me whether u prefer the larger one or smaller one? Obviously no doubt that the larger headlamp and slightly bigger bonnet looks better than the original!!!. mrshaharin
GO HAVE Alook at the new post
http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/21/proton-satria-neo5/#comments
and tell me whether u prefer the larger one or smaller one?
Obviously no doubt that the larger headlamp and slightly bigger bonnet looks better than the original!!!.

]]> By: szw http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74818 szw Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:42:44 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74818 now at least proton cars are built from ground up. not like some other company who adopt other company's technology and rebrand it. well, that's not going to work when selling overseas. now at least proton cars are built from ground up.
not like some other company who adopt other company’s technology and rebrand it.
well, that’s not going to work when selling overseas.

]]> By: fadlee http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74646 fadlee Wed, 21 Mar 2007 08:55:19 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74646 hahahahah u people are just fuk-ing crap.. stop being such a pussy.. dont say anything u dont even know thats a dumb statement.. you guys are like some old grandma complaining all the time.. do some productive thing rather than bashing all the time.. we all know about proton just stop complaining i hate fuk-ing sissy.. get a life.. proton is our national pride just give some hope.. can we just discuss something intelectual rather bashing like stupid kids? how old are you guys? hahahahah u people are just fuk-ing crap.. stop being such a pussy.. dont say anything u dont even know thats a dumb statement.. you guys are like some old grandma complaining all the time.. do some productive thing rather than bashing all the time.. we all know about proton just stop complaining i hate fuk-ing sissy.. get a life.. proton is our national pride just give some hope.. can we just discuss something intelectual rather bashing like stupid kids? how old are you guys?

]]> By: mycar_stolen http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74594 mycar_stolen Wed, 21 Mar 2007 04:09:55 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74594 the oldman is a good PM, but Proton sucks,my guess is Proton paying money to be part of the japan show, logical thinking why on earth is japan super motor industry need proton there? vw faster la buy the proton, and make the name disappear asap, I dont care and other malaysian also no need to care, BECAUSE PROTON NEVER CARE ABOUT RAKYAT. p/s tell me which nation have their own national car NOw? the oldman is a good PM, but Proton sucks,my guess is Proton paying money to be part of the japan show, logical thinking why on earth is japan super motor industry need proton there?

vw faster la buy the proton, and make the name disappear asap, I dont care and other malaysian also no need to care, BECAUSE PROTON NEVER CARE ABOUT RAKYAT.

p/s tell me which nation have their own national car NOw?

]]> By: 707 http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74473 707 Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:35:20 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74473 i hope they wont issue protons for govt officials to drive home after sake nights out i hope they wont issue protons for govt officials to drive home after sake nights out

]]> By: Driven2020 http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74383 Driven2020 Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:54:01 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74383 Nevermind. Be it true or not we'll just see. Results speak alot louder than just fancy wordings. Here's some insights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_(company)#Drop_of_sales http://thoughtsintangents.blogspot.com/2007/01/proton-saga-ongoing-example-of-analysis_11.html M'sia complain P1 like crazy already but Japs are a whole lot tougher cookie to chew on. Biased or not biased my money won't be on P1's table. Period. Nevermind. Be it true or not we’ll just see. Results speak alot louder than just fancy wordings.

Here’s some insights

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_(company)#Drop_of_sales

http://thoughtsintangents.blogspot.com/2007/01/proton-saga-ongoing-example-of-analysis_11.html

M’sia complain P1 like crazy already but Japs are a whole lot tougher cookie to chew on.

Biased or not biased my money won’t be on P1’s table. Period.

]]> By: mystvearn http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74368 mystvearn Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:40:43 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74368 you sure this time japanese don't want to cekup some of the ideas? I read somewhere about an open letter from Proton saying last time when designed the wira, japs stole it for their Mitsu. I think that thread link is still in lowyat's fast and furious you sure this time japanese don’t want to cekup some of the ideas? I read somewhere about an open letter from Proton saying last time when designed the wira, japs stole it for their Mitsu. I think that thread link is still in lowyat’s fast and furious

]]> By: ckengyo http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74235 ckengyo Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:36:05 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74235 talk about afta, p1 started 2 slash their saga 2 27K with tone down edition. the excuse is 2 celebrate our 50 anniversary of independent. rumors said now waja is 40+k & perdana is 80+k. i guess they can't postpone it anymore so they have 2 clear the old stocks asap & ready 4 p1vw hybrid model so that they can have new model in their show room on 1st of jan 2008. talk about afta, p1 started 2 slash their saga 2 27K with tone down edition. the excuse is 2 celebrate our 50 anniversary of independent. rumors said now waja is 40+k & perdana is 80+k. i guess they can’t postpone it anymore so they have 2 clear the old stocks asap & ready 4 p1vw hybrid model so that they can have new model in their show room on 1st of jan 2008.

]]> By: ckengyo http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74230 ckengyo Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:23:30 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74230 # NiceCar said, March 20, 2007 @ 7:42 am Proton always having more high quality, good material, more features, cheaper prices and good service for those cars to export. So we should not get shock why the foreigner satisfy with Porton cars.. Btw, the main objective to develope the nation car is to bring advantages to its country citizen, but Proton not.. it just try to suck ours’ blood so they can compensate the investment at foreign country… Malaysia Boleh!!! 100% agree with that. i think p1 & p2 also have different assembly line just distinguish by export & local. very easy. that is y some of u can get uk spec p1 & p2 car. the theory works like this. the export order may b 500 car. but the export line may b produce 502 or 503. so the extra units r not going 2 export but distribute it 2 p1 & p2 show room. in the past sale men will charge u premium 4 that but the actual cost r same as the local 1. but not sure whether this tricks is still works or not. btw, i think if p1 really sell our current model there, i think p1 will 100% have 2 replace the campro engine by some other brand. Renault perhaps? & as our ex-pm said selling our car so under cost off shore is 1 of the marketing tricks practice by car industry. the diff in value can b subsidize in the a/c as marketing cost. #
NiceCar said,

March 20, 2007 @ 7:42 am

Proton always having more high quality, good material, more features, cheaper prices and good service for those cars to export.
So we should not get shock why the foreigner satisfy with Porton cars..

Btw, the main objective to develope the nation car is to bring advantages to its country citizen, but Proton not.. it just try to suck ours’ blood so they can compensate the investment at foreign country…

Malaysia Boleh!!!

100% agree with that. i think p1 & p2 also have different assembly line just distinguish by export & local. very easy. that is y some of u can get uk spec p1 & p2 car.
the theory works like this. the export order may b 500 car. but the export line may b produce 502 or 503. so the extra units r not going 2 export but distribute it 2 p1 & p2 show room.
in the past sale men will charge u premium 4 that but the actual cost r same as the local 1. but not sure whether this tricks is still works or not.
btw, i think if p1 really sell our current model there, i think p1 will 100% have 2 replace the campro engine by some other brand. Renault perhaps?
& as our ex-pm said selling our car so under cost off shore is 1 of the marketing tricks practice by car industry. the diff in value can b subsidize in the a/c as marketing cost.

]]> By: raffendi http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74174 raffendi Tue, 20 Mar 2007 09:32:17 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74174 It shows good sign to me. One of the reason VW want Proton because of the FTA we had with Japan. We've read this before. So, now Proton is making the first step to enter Japan market. This is VW want isn't it.. Entering Japanese market. It shows good sign to me.
One of the reason VW want Proton because
of the FTA we had with Japan.
We’ve read this before.
So, now Proton is making the first step to enter
Japan market.
This is VW want isn’t it..
Entering Japanese market.

]]> By: Joe Ooi http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74151 Joe Ooi Tue, 20 Mar 2007 09:08:00 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74151 Invited by Japanese motorshow, got enquiry, then "over-excited" already if there are one or two good feedback! Even if we bring Tongkat Ali to display overthere, I think it got much more response from the Japs!!!!!!! Stil remain "potential market". Indeed it is a dream market! Invited by Japanese motorshow, got enquiry, then “over-excited” already if there are one or two good feedback! Even if we bring Tongkat Ali to display overthere, I think it got much more response from the Japs!!!!!!!

Stil remain “potential market”. Indeed it is a dream market!

]]> By: BrakeFader http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74095 BrakeFader Tue, 20 Mar 2007 07:35:39 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74095 honda_driver: Yes, indeed the Japanese started to utilise more plastics into their trim compared to continentals. Atleast their plastics have a much durable feel. But Proton took a step further and REDEFINED the meaning of plasticky feeling interior! Take example of the Satria Neo, I feel that the old Satria although its quite old now but the interior dash feels more premium than Neo. honda_driver: Yes, indeed the Japanese started to utilise more plastics into their trim compared to continentals. Atleast their plastics have a much durable feel. But Proton took a step further and REDEFINED the meaning of plasticky feeling interior! Take example of the Satria Neo, I feel that the old Satria although its quite old now but the interior dash feels more premium than Neo.

]]> By: adrian http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74094 adrian Tue, 20 Mar 2007 07:22:56 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74094 "Japanese consumers are not only looking at good design but also other factors like delivery and customer satisfaction". derivery, no probrem customer satisfaction? BIG PROBREM! HAITT!! “Japanese consumers are not only looking at good design but also other factors like delivery and customer satisfaction”.

derivery, no probrem

customer satisfaction? BIG PROBREM! HAITT!!

]]> By: kei9 http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74084 kei9 Tue, 20 Mar 2007 06:10:46 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74084 nice....it would not be a problem if some of the japs is not that tall. well nice try! nice….it would not be a problem if some of the japs is not that tall. well nice try!

]]> By: pausch http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74080 pausch Tue, 20 Mar 2007 05:59:32 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74080 IMHO: Satria Neo - nice design except for the seat height..unless u're less 5ft 5 in Gen.2 - i think the headlights are just a bit too fussy...if only it can be simplified a bit..the rear tail lights are even more fussier with the "crop circle" design..and no glove box..and if only it can be made slightly longer IMHO:
Satria Neo – nice design except for the seat height..unless u’re less 5ft 5 in
Gen.2 – i think the headlights are just a bit too fussy…if only it can be simplified a bit..the rear tail lights are even more fussier with the “crop circle” design..and no glove box..and if only it can be made slightly longer

]]> By: proton GL http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74075 proton GL Tue, 20 Mar 2007 04:53:07 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74075 design wise its a simple and attractive europenans in mind, lotus ride gives some impct to the appearence of the proton as a whole, justa a bit attention to, material inside and technology under the bonnet, it really boost the potential of proton, design wise its a simple and attractive europenans in mind, lotus ride gives some impct to the appearence of the proton as a whole,

justa a bit attention to, material inside and technology under the bonnet, it really boost the potential of proton,

]]> By: Mb_321 http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74068 Mb_321 Tue, 20 Mar 2007 04:25:27 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74068 haha....... nxt time we can buy proton half cut..!! btw good anyway if there's a company interested in bringing proton there, cool..! haha……. nxt time we can buy proton half cut..!! btw good anyway if there’s a company interested in bringing proton there, cool..!

]]> By: Mb_321 http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74067 Mb_321 Tue, 20 Mar 2007 04:24:08 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74067 haha....... nxt time we can buy protons half cut..!! btw good anyway if there's a company interested in bringing proton there, cool..! haha……. nxt time we can buy protons half cut..!! btw good anyway if there’s a company interested in bringing proton there, cool..!

]]> By: bobtahar http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74054 bobtahar Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:49:13 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74054 Japanese also like us kutuk giler they own cars and puji melambung other people cars... thats why they praise Gen-2 like we praise Vios. Japanese also like us kutuk giler they own cars and puji melambung other people cars… thats why they praise Gen-2 like we praise Vios.

]]> By: mrshaharin http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74053 mrshaharin Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:47:17 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74053 dogster said-But then the front of neo is just hopeless. The front light size is so small that its disproportion to the size of the whole body. That is called good styling? If the front lights are slightly bigger or very big, this car would be a winner. And also please make the front grill bigger.Hardly noticeable from the front. Please la proton use your brains in the correct way or risk being disolved…- i dont agree with u saying the neo front is hopeless....the front light and grille is to complement the neo low like, sporty looks...the problem with proton is actually the QC,QA and some management issues... dogster said-But then the front of neo is just hopeless. The front light size is so small that its disproportion to the size of the whole body. That is called good styling? If the front lights are slightly bigger or very big, this car would be a winner. And also please make the front grill bigger.Hardly noticeable from the front. Please la proton use your brains in the correct way or risk being disolved…-

i dont agree with u saying the neo front is hopeless….the front light and grille is to complement the neo low like, sporty looks…the problem with proton is actually the QC,QA and some management issues…

]]> By: schdmitz http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74049 schdmitz Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:36:59 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74049 i think the japanese just make fun of the car!!!!if he compare withe cheapest car and design from Japan......teruk kena bantai by japanese especially those experts....the design is not bad but the quality of the material .....teruk...look at Jin's too interior....the plastic....the front seats....and door hander....after used for a period of time the paint came offfffffffffffffffff....one thing....minyak tidak tahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnn...anybody? i think the japanese just make fun of the car!!!!if he compare withe cheapest car and design from Japan……teruk kena bantai by japanese especially those experts….the design is not bad but the quality of the material …..teruk…look at Jin’s too interior….the plastic….the front seats….and door hander….after used for a period of time the paint came offfffffffffffffffff….one thing….minyak tidak tahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnn…anybody?

]]> By: aesthari http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74036 aesthari Tue, 20 Mar 2007 02:47:23 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74036 Good design and styling for Satria NEO? Yes, Gen.2? Well, quite nice, and the Savvy? Ditto. But good quality? Huh? They serious? Maybe Proton sent some extra high quality versions over to Japan hahaha. Good design and styling for Satria NEO? Yes, Gen.2? Well, quite nice, and the Savvy? Ditto. But good quality? Huh? They serious? Maybe Proton sent some extra high quality versions over to Japan hahaha.

]]> By: BigCar http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74021 BigCar Tue, 20 Mar 2007 02:21:45 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74021 What i know about proton is they have different spec between export and local.For export spec dia canggih compare with yang ada in malaysia. That why kat luar proton dapat pujian. What i know about proton is they have different spec between export and local.For export spec dia canggih compare with yang ada in malaysia. That why kat luar proton dapat pujian.

]]> By: Dogster http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74019 Dogster Tue, 20 Mar 2007 02:20:47 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-74019 Please la. good styling for Gen 2? Did the reporter bribe them? The butt for gen 2 is an eye sore to look at. But credit must be given for the satria neo's butt, its the best we have seen for sometime. But then the front of neo is just hopeless. The front light size is so small that its disproportion to the size of the whole body. That is called good styling? If the front lights are slightly bigger or very big, this car would be a winner. And also please make the front grill bigger.Hardly noticeable from the front. Please la proton use your brains in the correct way or risk being disolved... Please la. good styling for Gen 2? Did the reporter bribe them?
The butt for gen 2 is an eye sore to look at. But credit must be given for the satria neo’s butt, its the best we have seen for sometime.
But then the front of neo is just hopeless. The front light size is so small that its disproportion to the size of the whole body. That is called good styling? If the front lights are slightly bigger or very big, this car would be a winner. And also please make the front grill bigger.Hardly noticeable from the front. Please la proton use your brains in the correct way or risk being disolved…

]]> By: masterx1100 http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-73994 masterx1100 Tue, 20 Mar 2007 01:40:21 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-73994 satria neo..good design by proton.. 3 star... satria neo..good design by proton..
3 star…

]]> By: mofo http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-73993 mofo Tue, 20 Mar 2007 01:39:13 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-73993 No doubt that Satria Neo have a good design, overall its good car. Awareness of the quality from P1 still unclear. Ppl still having doubts on it on local market. Hmm.. P1 get into Japan Market, can they compete ? Concern will be how long P1 need to take to produce new model ? Every 4 years ? No doubt that Satria Neo have a good design, overall its good car. Awareness of the quality from P1 still unclear. Ppl still having doubts on it on local market.

Hmm.. P1 get into Japan Market, can they compete ? Concern will be how long P1 need to take to produce new model ? Every 4 years ?

]]> By: honda_driver http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-73971 honda_driver Tue, 20 Mar 2007 01:02:06 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-73971 BrakeFader, the japanese are the ones who pioneered the whole idea of cheap plastics in cars.. and till today, their budget range of cars still feature acres of dressed up cheap plastic. BrakeFader, the japanese are the ones who pioneered the whole idea of cheap plastics in cars.. and till today, their budget range of cars still feature acres of dressed up cheap plastic.

]]> By: gonggok http://paultan.org/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-73970 gonggok Tue, 20 Mar 2007 01:00:06 +0000 http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/20/proton-cars-get-some-international-attention/#comment-73970 Proton export models are now the same as local models - who has the time to change meterials? Come on, I have a sister with a Vios and a brother with a Gen-2, and I notice how much hard toy-like plastic is in the Vios... Proton export models are now the same as local models – who has the time to change meterials?

Come on, I have a sister with a Vios and a brother with a Gen-2, and I notice how much hard toy-like plastic is in the Vios…

]]>