PEDA (Proton Edar Dealers Association Malaysia) has a new request for Bank Negara: remove the ceiling for hire purchase commission. PEDA wants the commission to be determined by market forces instead, so that the Proton Edar dealers could possibly earn more from each Proton car sold through hire purchase commissions. A dealer gets a hire purchase commission when a hire purchase loan for a sold car is processed and approved through the dealer.
PEDA’s arguement for this: the whole idea of the commission was to help Proton dealers in the first place. It was introduced in the 80s to compensate for low Proton car sales margins. Later, it was extended to all car dealers until 2001. “The origins of the hire purchase commission, to support the low car margin of Proton dealers, were forgotten and neglected and the Proton car margin was never revised since,” said PEDA deputy president Armin Baniaz Pahamin.
Armin also continued to stress on it’s previous request for banks to have a minimum quota of Proton loans to approve. “This will allay banks’ fears of poor KPI due to Proton customers’ profile. This is a normal practice in other developed countries such as South Korea to ensure the survival of their national car,” he said.
I am rather puzzled about one thing. How will a minimum amount of Proton loans approved allay the banks’ fears of Proton car non-performing loans? All it merely does is force the bank to approve a certain number of loans, but the banks will have to continue worrying about those loans. The only thing that will change is the banks will not be able to refuse the risky loan. Indirectly forcing the bank to worry, instead of letting the bank NOT worry by rejecting the loan.
Is there something wrong here or am I just stupid and not able to comprehend?
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Too bad…the whole idea will never get approve.
The things they must understand…..there's too much risk involved…asking bank to release money to high risk group is like signing your own death warrant.
Bankers are laughing at the stupidity of the whole issue which shouldn't be brought up in the first place. Btw this is not Korea and yester years scenario are different from what it is now.
To solve the problems should starts from the roots.
Looks like Proton is going to hell with their agents…..it is good for consumers who have more choices and bad for our government and Proton.
Encik Armin suruh semua yg kerja kat poton beli potonlah..tunjuklah patriotism sikit..nanti suruhlah gomen ikut…
What is needed now in Malaysia is a CCRIS check AT DEALER POINT. Sales Manager can just key in persons name and Salesman can see if it is worth continuing the sales process. If credit rating is bad, Salesman can just say, "Sorry Sir, you have a bad credit rating. Please come back when it gets better. Right now your car loan application just won't be approved. Thank you.".
Saves time for everyone right?
Its a pointless argument.
Like many has brought up in the previous threads, the problems that PEDA faces are not the banks. With cars depreciating faster now, banks will even be a little more caucious on facilitating loans, especially to those that are questionable.
PEDAs problems are from poor Principle support and product leading to consumer dissatisfaction, consumer "vengence" due to questionable past practices (10 years on, there are still people that are sore than we had to pay for useless and ugly stickers and mandatory accesories, didn;t get the colour we wanted, etc), possible over population of dealerships, and the general high prices of cars across the board.
Wonder if these guys actually use root cause analysis.
Other carmaker dealers are also having same problems with getting their potential buyers approved of their loans so that they can sell off their cars. Why is PEDA put the blame on Banks? Banks do not discrimate buyers and the brand of the new car that the applicant is buying is not the main factor/consideration for loan approval. Its the credit worthiness of the buyers. Don't blame the banks when their potential buyers are not qualified due to bad credit rating. This is an open economy, how backwards are PEDA going to with that kind of politically motivated & protective measures?
maibatsu_thunder, CCRIS is governed by Bank Negara, and is only for use within the banking institutions/creditors. The information from the database is very confidential, which at some extent some people may manipulate its use to benefit themselves. Its not like bloomberg where everyone in the market can get hands on the information.
This is crazy. Asking for quota is totally baseless. So lets say a bank has a quota of 500 units of Proton per month to honour. In the final days of the month, if they could only secure loan for 400 units with credible financial standings, are they saying that Proton should blindly approve 100 more units just to meet the quota regardless of financial status? That's nuts!
I hear that accessing CCRIS isn't free. So if a bank checks, it will bear the cost. But obviously that cost is worth spending if it can save the bank from making a bad money losing decision of approving loan of a bad credit customers. Another thing about CCRIS, banks can even check and see if a person record has been access by any other banks. So if a customer has been checked several times by other banks, the bank would be unlikely to take this customer (thinking this customers must have tried to apply loan in so many banks but can't get approval, this must be bad).
On PEDA, they are so many issues hampering the auto market, but whinning about bank quotas and spoon feeding rights isn't gonna get them anywhere.
On 2nd thought, go ahead! Ask for quota! Then after getting so many NPL loans, the banks might have to cease doing business to Proton dealers. As a result, Protons can't sell due to loan issues and might have to drop price to affordable levels for cash & carry purchase. They are just destroying their own product.
No Paul, you are not stupid and there is nothing wrong there.
For more than 20 years, those making a living out of Proton believe that they can do no wrong and Proton is the best product the automotive world ever produce. Heck… even Proton even claim that they can sell Waja at RM80k++ and still will sell…!!!
This PEDA guy is starting to replace the old M as a source of joke when it come to Proton. This fella is juz a by-product of years of consumer abuse by Proton. Instead of blaming others, why not look at themselves…??? In Klang town alone, i counted no less than 5 Proton dealership. If you include Port Klang its even more….!!! Do we really need so many Proton showroom around our neighborhood???
PEDA should look into consolidating their dealership to make them more efficient instead of making stupid statement.
I know banks are but legalized loan sharks and deserve all the shit they get, but in this case won't it be a better idea if PEDA were to go cause trouble for PROTON instead?
How about going to Proton and saying "Your product is inferior and your customer service is so bad nobody is buying. Please give us something better to sell?"
[sarcasm]Now that's an idea right?[sarcasm]
wahlaueh…
This is like stupid PEDA saying : ' I am robbing you, when you get killed it's your problem because you come to approach my knife!!' PEDA just want to change to bigger knife, may be sword to make easier killing…
Poor brainless PEDA people… born with no brain…
This is a typical effects of over protective from our G, PEDA is too selffish to think about their own pockets…
PEDA are clutching at straws now. It wouldn't surprise me if they come up with more ridiculous ideas.
Wow, 20 years+ big baby is asking to be spoon-fed. It isn't much different from telling the bank to walk slowly towards the edge of a cliff, slow but definite death. Bah, just die alone, PEDA, don't drag the banks into this, our economy is bad enough already as it is.
Another last ditch attempt to save their own asses..
Oi!!! PEDA you dogs are barking up the wrong tree…. you should go bark at the manufacturer and ask them where did all the $$$ go to when times were good.. as it should have been reinvested into R&D and better product quality..
this is textbook protectionist policy. somebody should make this into a case study. haha proton just die lah. i remember how you screwed me with your dumb compulsory accessories package that i didn't need.. your lousy overcharging service centres…. what goes around come around.
This time you will die… without your dark knight TDM… nobody will give a shit about proton. New boss has got other babies to take care of… and hes not playing surrogate father to somebody elses kid..
And to all those PROTON DEALERS out there… i would be surprised if they haven't thought about Proton impending doom, of course they wont mention it to anyone coz its bad for biz… but look around, most of these dealers are exiting PROTON slowly…. come one guys, be realistic, there are much more better marquees to be associated with other than PROTON… no more milk lah this PROTON CASH COW….
PROTON… leave while you still can… have a conscience and stop wasting tax payers money, if you leave now… you will always be a legacy. If not, the whole house of cards will fall and everybody malu.. BYE BYE PROTON! won't be missing you.
i thinl the PEDA people should pegi daa,la
wahlaueh…
PEDA… please stop your jokes around… haha…. :)
promote proton 2 civil servants lar
gv CRAZY discounts.
then change all d government cars to proton.
if u cant sell 2 'we-are-not-that-dumb-anymore' rakyat, at least can sell 2 goverment deparment.
Paul, if you are stupid, then we're all stupid. PEDA still thinks they're in the 80's and dreaming. Dream on PEDA.
There are several issues here.
First, it looks as if Proton has too many dealers. It started with Tengku Mahaleel throwing tantrums and he went to Tun M to have a new network, instead of selling only through EON. He felt that EON was getting commissions for not even trying, as sales of Proton was very good at that time.
The second issue is the question of HP commission. The commission is paid by the finance company, so limiting the amount to the dealers mean that Proton is pocketing the difference! In other words, if the finance company pays 1%, and the dealer gets , say, only half of that, it means that there is an 'understanding' between the finance company and Proton that the difference goes to Proton. EON could have refused to that arrangement and that was why Proton Edar was formed. I may be wrong, but that's how I look at it.
Thirdly, EON should never have been formed in the first place , as Proton could have sold it's cars on it's own or form a wholly owned subsidiary to sell and finance the sales. But in Malaysia, we have too many bright sparks who decide on something, and turn away when the s**t hits the fan.
LJ
root of the problem, is to stop beating around the bush. the real problem is not only for proton but as of the entire local car industry. crudely breaking it down for you (please ponder upon it) : –
1)Local Car Industry Dying (new cars)
because cars are not selling (and why)
because consumers dont want to buy (and why)
because they are afraid of uncertain car prices next year (and why)
because our government are not making it clear about the policy, which would you as a consumer buy a car this year and lose 20% of the value next and still under hire purchase. (most people would not, because 20% is around an average income earneds 6month of wages.)
2)Local Car Industry Dying (used car)
blaming interest rates. which is not the real cause because 2%-4% difference in a the rates between new cars and used isn't the cause.
NAP reduction on the 2nd time is. suddenly all the stocks in their hand gone down in 10%-20% in value. one would consider that a loss.
to make it up the press the prices of the next trade in value down, and try to sell them in an orderly price (because they control the market)
but consumer wise, knowing they buy in that value and sell to you at a much higher value (feeling of not worth) e.g. you bring your 01 perdana v6 to a used car, he will tell you, "aiya not much value nowadays, i can only give you 30k for the car." then you negotiate for higher. then he will say "best price 31k cause nobody wants this car" and then resells this car for 40k – 42k.
and whats the point you ask? they try to make back the money lost from the NAP which was bluntly lashed out like that. and who they try to make it from?
the consumer. which so happens to be me and you.
finaly question, who's to blame?
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proton issues, its not about the commission. simple fact. they have been losing money and government pre-afta acts are not properly taught out. since everybody in the industry is losing money, it kind of magnify them. as market leader 20% reduction on sales is huge. imagine 70% of the pie belongs to proton and losing 20% of the value (its like ripping the teeth out with a plier). and the real problem is as stated before (consumer is not buying).
final point. 'root of the problem, not beating around the bush as they always do.'
Is it really so bad that banks are discriminating against proton cars or the truth really is that no one is buying proton cars anymore. Too much stock too many dealers around.
With a quota naturally the number of non performing loans will increas which will bring about more repossessed cars onto the market and we are back to square one again,as now banks are not prepared to give loans for second hand cars also.Flooding the market will just cause the price of cars to drop even further making things worse for PEDA as nobody will buy a new car again.
i used to remember back in the days when proton used to rule malaysian roads.. back then EON is the sole distributor of proton cars and as usual, as a monopoly the dealers are mostly arrogant and treat customers badly. i mean heck, they asked my dad rm3k duit kopi so that he can get his proton iswara on time, else the delivery would be repeatedly delayed… but then time changed, proton edar popped out suddenly and the economy was on a downturn, dealers everywhere are now begging for people to buy their cars….EON was so badly hurt (both by the formation of proton edar and the downturn) that they now are focussing elsewhere than just selling proton cars.. i guess they learnt their lesson already.. but now the economy is good, people are buying cars like crazy and some are just avoiding proton cars, proton edar dealerships are literally everywhere and now they're asking for the government's help for a problem that they themselves created, having too many dealers in the 1st place…. i mean a dealership is just a business, nothing is certain, profit is not a certain thing.. if having a proton edar dealership means constant and guaranteed profit, i'll jump in the bandwagon rigth away and start a dealership.. why can't those PEDA people understand that IT'S A BUSINESS for god sake, stop asking for G's help and start acting like u're running a business..
by doing all this, proton is juz trashing its already trashed reputation….showing tat it is weak and cannot survive on its own……..sad sad….
Same story. " Help me to make some money from others –you all owe me that !"
Hidup umpama roda. Ada kala di atas, ada kala di bawah. Before this,Proton's dealer already at the above of the wheels. Now it's their turn under the wheel.
It goes to show how desperate for a change of fortune since now proton cars are just clod fish as bad as some continental cars :) Cant pull a fast one on the ppl coz in the age of interweb, news travels fast, opinions are quickly shared, facts are easily given and truth is clear and made available to all. Good luck PEDA time to sell other things then. Cheers!
suggest PEDA to sell 'roti canai'… instead of proton cars, if no people buy, they can eat all the roti….hahaa :) No need to shame itself & others to ask for helps…
Well, there is an easy solution to it.
If in your opinion that commercial banks are not helping your cause or discriminating against you, FORM YOUR OWN BANK/CREDIT FACILITY for your own cars.
Talk is cheap….
was about to post the same thing as 4G63T DSM.
offer your own financing… sure the buyers will queue up from all over the country. If it works out well, then you deserve the profits and success.
only worrisome thing is that these fellas find some lobang to use EPF aka rakyat money instead pulak to start their financing. or worse still ask EPF to bail em out when it all goes wrong.
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4G63T DSM said,
FORM YOUR OWN BANK/CREDIT FACILITY for your own cars.
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Hi bro, i am sure they will ask G to supply $$ to backup them to setup the bank…haha…
Aren't our G just blindly supply P1 RM50 millions to help P1 dealership networks improvement lately?? I think it must be already go into someone's pockets…
the same old story………..very tired to hear this kind of SHIT……
Pak Armin…….cut down the number of proton dealer…….or just c who can survive till the end…….stop talking nonsense………if the proton's quality is good, sure the proton is selling good…….
bah, i m just waiting for Proton to die.
quote – Pak Lah during NEO launch " saya takkan biarkan Proton ditutup"
There does not seem to be any urgency to look into the problems at Proton. The PM wants to decide but he has not even met VW. I doubt if he would be refused if he wants to meet, and decide once and for all about VW. He procrastinates, without realising that Proton is suffering, dealers are suffering, parts suppliers are suffering, and those holding Proton shares are suffering! I think he thinks he lives in a different world where everything revolves around him and he can take his own sweet time to think and think and think.
firstly proton have to remove the old boys. try to hire new boys cos proton needs new idea new concept and new management.. just changing the head make not much different where they need to change the whole team..
No one is buying P1 cars now. All going myvi.
Proton and those concern,
To summarise things……..rakyat already sick and tired with all those issue which have been around for so many years.
So better close shop as consumer confidence already gone.
Ha, ha, ha,ha …………
All this while, they are good in everything about creating procedures, policies or institute regulations to enable certain party to make easy money!
Now the reality is BACKLASH!
STOP THE BUYING, STOP THE SUCKING!
proton.com said,
May 7, 2007 @ 3:19 pm
quote – Pak Lah during NEO launch †saya takkan biarkan Proton ditutupâ€
——————————————————-
Hm….that's probably the oni thing we noe the gahmen will do. All else, zzz……….
Actually I love Pak Lah…..he is nice and try to make M'sia better with all those mess left behind for him to clear.
The quote…..Pak Lah sure must give face mah…to public.
Because he knows and we knows…the public will close it for them
proton.com said,
May 7, 2007 @ 3:19 pm
quote – Pak Lah during NEO launch †saya takkan biarkan Proton ditutupâ€
——————————————————————————————
Of course Proton will not closed shop. Those basher out there please remember, proton will not closed, but Pak Lah never said " I will not sell proton share to VW or GM"
sooner or later Proton will kaput without back up from other giant Auto company. too many political interuption during nego. with these giant will send Proton straight to Museum Negara.
They never learn…when gov think they help proton, but actually it has destroyed the proton…after 20 years, still the same mindset…
the other way around,
theres a speculation that proton car will picking up their sale (if the price is good for the product availabled ), so someone prepare to catch more fish,
PEDA wheres your …'MALAYSIAN' in mind,?
It is depressing that an association like PEDA can stoop this low and make known to everyone that they require the protective cloud of the G to make them a viable entity. If the G uses its political will to resuscitate the dealers and throws in our money to save them, this can turn into a highly explosive issue that can reveberate into the next GE. It is known fact that a GLC will be saved for the benefit of the minority whilst the common people like us suffer in silence. However, such a business will eventually die as the mindset of the people that run it is not driven towards excellence in the long term but mainly to make a quick buck in the short term. This debacle has gone on for too long but the G hasn't made any decisive decision yet. This is obvious because there is no face saving way out for Proton or PEDA.
Even if the economy improves and we all have the means to buy a new car, would we actually buy a Proton car for the sake of national pride? Very unlikely as the market is very competitive and most of us are still sore from our previous experiences with Proton.
Certainly Proton needs to improve their quality but to change their image will be even more difficult. The comments made in this forum is not bashing nor hating Proton, it is likely that our national pride have been hurt by a flailing and floundering company. Honestly, Malaysians are proud people and Proton had the potential to be successfull. Instead, it is now a misery best forgotten…. Unfortunately IMO
This PEDA thingy is not "biz mind" entity to compete in the market just like P1 but expected government implemented certain policy/rules to let them make easy money at the expense of Rakyat pocket.
They don't need to improve in quality (products) and after sales service. Sooner, they may exhausted all idea and the "last shot" may ask G to incorporate "Sales Commission" into selling price of the car! Apart from make normal proift from selling car.
Nothing can be done to save P1 if they themselve are interested to make easy money only by not taking effort to save themselve – worst is expected G to be the "white knight" using tax payer money.
Time for BACKLASH, take back our consumers right to buy car at competitive/market price under open market. NAP is crap and suck!
STOP THE BUYING, STOP THE SUCKING! For Malaysian with a better tomorrow! We doesn't want to see our next generation can only afford to buy stone age milo tin on the wheel!
How bout all of us SMS to NST CBT about this issue… stating what Joe Ooi said, stop the buying, stop the sucking, boycot P1. And perhaps P2 also if they start to become complacent & lousy like P1. They also have started to price their cars higher than what they should be.
shame on you armin.
u think u are helping yr boys?? no sir. you are wrong, you are just another idiot who think malaysian are dump.
i still remember when my dad bought a wira during mid of 90's, the dealer showed my dad his pay slip.. RM20k per month for the commission.
and now u make less money then try to "bp g
if u wanna be patriotic, there's lots of ways to do it.
by not buying proton, doesnt mean ure unpatriotic.
ive stopped buying proton due to so many reasons.
expensive service charges, very bad customer sevice, the list goes on.
we even have a merdeka motto…
"bebaskan diri anda dari proton."
keep it down yall……..dont wanna get into any conflict here……agree? if wanna comment, comment nicely.=)
I think most malaysian will accept proton and other national car "quality" if they can sell the car relatively cheap. (like in UK price), so we the rakyat jelata can save some money for saving, investing in share or ASB,ASW etc. buy some properties and get good life. sigh
I am sure everyone has points that r valid against Proton. But one must realise that the Proton issue is considered a "hot potato " issue wherby even the most seasoned politician must thread with extreme caution. A mistake has been made of extreme propotions & not one day i wish we were in Thialand's shoes in terms of our auto industry but alas we also must realise that the world is not made up of black and white areas but " GREY " and this is the area that Proton has fallen into since its very first day of birth. So since we r going to have to live with it i guess we have no choice but to try to give constructive feedback………..& its not in our hands to determine anyones fate but ourselves.
One thing I am sure everyone works hard for MONEY………and we deserve something better to be exact.
We determine our fate which I totally agree……..but this is not the scenario.
Money don't drop from the the sky. In order to make a living we ought to strive harder to make the day……the recipe of success depends what you do and a lot of luck.
BUT you just don't go out there and ask to get protected from your PAPA and MUMMY just because you can't make your day ! I guess that individual gotta be ashame of him/herself.
If PAPA and MUMMY continue to protect you, so when you are gonna grow up ?
The whole truth….is this matter should not be debated now, it should be because with so many years ahead of so many car manufacturers beside japan which are not yet establish….WE SHOULD ALREADY HAVE A HEAD START and should be EXPORTING CARS BY NOW rather still sucking $$$ from locals and asking to be protected from various parties just because you can't make it.
I guess this is NAIVE and should be kicking yourself by now.
agreed with qwertyman. i have a few points to add:
1. lousy and inefficient public transport
Even the whole network link of public tranport is poorly connected given the already poorly designed and built township of KL, Klang & other part of Selangor like PJ, Puchong. despite the fact, G is pushing rapidkl, most still find it problematic, one have to change few buses to get to destination.
2. lack of safety
Most of Myvi drivers are female, why? Working ladies, for those capable of affording a car, prefer to drive to work although knowing that KL & all nearby areas are filed with massive traffic jam and yet new cars are still seen on the road, not the other way round, i.e. become less. Why? Because the security in KL, klang or PJ is no less notorious than JB. You got snached, wounded, paralyzed or even killed by mat rempit (no offence), sorry after you spent hours lodging police report, does it really help the overall safety on the road, alone, female?
3. lifting fuel subsidy to compensate import duty
It sounds a good deal for Malaysian but will it going to happen? Let me guess. First, G uplifts fuel subsidy bit by bit and at the same consoling Malaysian that import duty will be revised from time to time. Second, by testing the tolerence level of us, i.e. how much we could cope with fuel price increase until a certain level that import duty still remains the same as today but fuel price increases unless G losses its majority in election. It's win situation for G but lose situation for us. Why? P1 is at large and it won't fail, not with current G still protecting it. Imagine the political consequences if P1 fails, many loss their easy money, i mean those cronies.
4. let there be hope
With the rising of P2, it proves that strategic partnership with foreign car maker works, especially those big boys. Sorry to say P1 + Lotus doesn't work when even the basic quality control is a total mess. Procurement is predominant with discriminative policies makes it kills P1 itself slowly and it becomes apparently worst during 2000's lately. P1 can TUV certifies on Savvy, why not roll out on all models? P1 is in dilemma of continuing existing model mass production or adapting a more flexible manufacturing in comng with new models and reinfored with new R&D, i.e. new powerful and fuel efficient engine, applied modern management policies, such as TQM, and of course reshuffle/retrench existing staff for qualified recruits. It definitely will be painful but P1 now needs a electrocuted shock, not a panadol (G recently just pumped in RM50 million into P1, which I think is useless).
To bring back the glory and fame of national car industry, Malaysia has a long route to marathon …. let there be hope, for us …
Well i think half the RM50 million is in the high rank officer pocket already… What R & D… Even pumping so many money to lotus n P1 still rugi these few years… Well i heard the Perdana will use mitsubishi galant model to replace.. still got a bit partnership, even Gen.2, satria and waja gearbox still using mitshibishi. R & D so much on that campro engine.. I think these money must be doing in licensing the technology, coz CPS and variable intake manifold technology is not totally new or design by Lotus..
"Well i think half the RM50 million is in the high rank officer pocket already…" I've like these words from LittleFire85…
even minimun loan quota provided, then HP commission ceiling removed come true, something new will still come along, it will never end…