awieeeeeeee……………………………..

http://media.paultan.org/satrianeo/satrianeo_enginebay.jpg

how about retune the intake with something a bit smaller in diameter and a bit longer, intake trunking,
miiight shift the torque earlier bit, of course will sacrifice top end, but how often we reach 5000, 10% throughout the driving experience.

__________________________________________________________________________

Agreed with u on this. How often do we reach 5000rpm? We drive mostly in city areas.

(decend alternative to VIM)

sorry off topic a bit, look at the picture of a campro engine ,
–a huge opening intake trunk , ram air type (scooping air) , big air filter,
(higher rpm eagerness)–

apart from engine magement, or other setting, the above is partly contributed to torque and power band biased toward higher engine speed,

how about retune the intake with something a bit smaller in diameter and a bit longer, intake trunking,
miiight shift the torque earlier bit, of course will sacrifice top end, but how often we reach 5000, 10% throughout the driving experience.

(decend alternative to VIM)

The corolla price quoted is pretty believable as it is historically an aggressively discounted model. In the US most people actually pay much less than the listed price after negotiations, so even after adding tax and insurance the OTR prices are lower than what one might think.

thanks for the info of the price in aus. i know the price in uk, bcos my brother is looking for a car overthere. my dad and sis went overthere last year. as usual, my dad will test drive some cars overthere. imagine it if the price in aus or uk can be applied to malaysia, what would it happen? a rm85k of corolla instead of rm120k, or a camry2.4 rm105k-rm145k instead of rm170k? more wonderful was 525i could be sold at rm200k instead of rm400k. what will we choose between a waja1.6 rm60k and corolla1.8 rm85k? i guess lots of people won’t complaint much if the car prices is similar to uk or aus, moreover, we have mostly ckd make and our gdp is lower. do u agree? anyway, this new car around rm50k is an option, just consider it as one of the cheapest sedan overhere. and the name persona is ok too.

but ok, i admit that I made a small technical error. Internet prices are GENERALLY not OTR. Most proton critics with coffeeshop type arguments get their car prices from FOREIGN websites that ALMOST NEVER display OTR prices.

Satisfied?

OTR prices are usually about 25% higher than those that you see on car comparison websites. Again, this varies by country.

Bottom line: A ~1200kg small japanese sedan is about RM75k OTR in MOST COUNTRIES. A ~1200kg small proton sedan is about RM50k OTR (RM38k non-OTR). Not so technologically advanced, but still a car. It’s a budget car so dont expect too much. ***It is not overpriced***.

tec,
A mid-level trim 1.8L Corolla is about RM85k OTR in the United Kingdom. I doubt it would be too different in the States. Below RM60k is really a bargain by any standard for a current generation Corolla. Btw, a BMW5series is about RM200k OTR and a Camry2.4 is about roughly RM105-145k OTR here in australia (prices excluding insurance)…

i m just trying to point out that Alfa do produce boxer engine not boxter engine plus 147 is only in twin spark engine for malaysia market also for sure is less than 5 years old and Alfa do produce the Twin spark and V6 engine which is famous and most delicious 4 in line or v6 engine..

Well, i sure hope proton will realy commited with their own motto, “Dare to change”. It is time proton listen to Malaysia, not ‘syok sendiri’ any more. Proton better deliver cars that Malaysian want, not the cars that there think Malaysia want.

Good car should be consider as the whole, take Savvy for instant, the quality is good, handling is outstanding (i’d test drive it), but it doesn’t have good look! I means, too many people thought that it is ‘ugly’. (sorry, cannot find better word). May be proton should consider phasing it out.

Satria Neo was nice, it even look better the Gen-2, the only drawback was 3-doors arrangement.

Last time, Satria became best selling 3-door car. Unfortunately, market always changed. Needless to say, Malaysia have broader choice nowadays, causing less Satria Neo sighted on the road.

It time to change, why don’t Proton add up another doors to Neo, just like the Mazda RX8, it should add postive value to the car.

Proton, please consider my suggestion, others please comment…….:))

p/s : like it or not, Proton is Pride of Our Nation.

need not to argue, both of u have ur points. cars is just a machines only. lots of countries may not be able to have a corolla/civic at rm60k otr but not all. but then elantra/sentra? what about CKD or CBU make? anyhow, car prices in US is almost half the price in malaysia. check out US price, corolla 1.8 is below rm60k, so OTR? corolla 1.8 in malaysia is around rm120k OTR. but when my parents visited my aunt&uncle for a month last year . my dad and uncle test drove all sorts of cars of D-class, and end up with a camry 2.4. the price less than rm100k OTR is almost half the price in malaysia. but my dad asked why not a BMW525i since my uncle like it much and was less than rm200k. is no point arguing afterall in malaysia we have limited choice as a consumer.

Bigfish, this is the third time im gonna say this in this topic.

INTERNET PRICES ARE *NOT* _ON THE ROAD_ PRICES.
—————–
So, here again you are self-contradict by make a sweeping generalization statement, in which you “complaint” when other do the same. Be specific dude …..

But for me we can make generalization and specific as the situation is appropriate!

OK, the above posting by me shown your statement is applicable but yet again your argument that Civic can’t sell at around RM 55K in any part of the world is unacceptable since OTR price in UAE is RM 2,750 + drivearabia.com price range.

To be specific, below are link in internet that show OTR price for car: -

http://www.toyota.com.my/#

http://www.nissan.com.my/vehicles/lineup/index.html

Again, your sweeping generalization is not true for the above links since they published OTR price.

OTR prices are usually significantly higher.
————————
Check with my friend at Abu Dhabi regarding the price shown in the website: -

http://www.drivearabia.com/proton/

He commented: -

“The price shown not included the insurances, registration …etc . but just top up other around AED3,000++ will enough.

like Mitsubishi Lancer (old model) here just sale around 40k only.”

AED 3,000 ++ = RM 2,750++

So, include the insurances, registration …. etc is OTR price for car. Proton, therefore sell their car in UAE well below cost!

Your collective action by not supporting a fast sinking ship –guess who? (multiple by buyers nationwide) will determine that’ll put an end to wasting rakyat money thru EPF, end to ever-faulty cronies autoparts supplier, end to unwanted ugly problematic shameful car models, end of over-ambitious attitude that proved to be futile in the end.

_____________________________________________________________

again another rumour…where did you get you information that proton is getting thru EPF???

logic will answer you this…if proton were to take EPF money their account will not be on the red…maybe you might argue that proton need way much more than what they are earning to survive..but….

ok lets put it this way…if EPF were to give its money to proton…how will EPF pay back to people who is after 55??and they do pay back with additional interest….which is way much higher than a bank…so if they were to give out money simply to help proton…many would have complained for not getting their EPF…

conclusion is..you are the one having a third world mentality…how you would ask??….spreading rumours and accepting whatever people say and spreading the lie to the rest is how people with 3rd world mentality behave…

so what do expect from the rest??

proton car batter than the chinese car,

OTR prices are usually significantly higher.
———————-

Below are e-mail communication with my friend from Abu Dhabi, UAE: -
————————
Loo,

I saw in the UAE website showing the car prices is extra ordinary lowest.

For example: –

http://www.drivearabia.com/proton/

The price of Gen-2 is start from Dhs 32000 – 35000 (US$ 8700 – 9500).

Is this price is ON THE ROAD price?

or there are other not included, e.g. road tax, insurance, etc. If that is the case I would like to know the OTR price for car in UAE (just for my knowledge).

U can log in below to search for all models available in UAE market!

http://www.drivearabia.com/newvehicleguide.html

Thanks.

Hope you reply me on the above.
————————
Reply: –

The price shown not included the insurances, registration …etc . but just top up other around AED3,000++ will enough.

like Mitsubishi Lancer (old model) here just sale around 40k only.

————————

That means OTR price for small cars (e.g. A, B and C segment) is by top up RM 2,750 for insurances, registration, etc. But this monies is not part of selling price that go into Proton coffer. Therefore, this confirm Proton car sold at below cost in Middle East!!!!! So, what else you want to argue, or if you still have benefit of doubt on the above, you can log in below and make enquiry: -

http://www.drivearabia.com/email.html

1. So your statement that car such as Honda Civic can’t sell OTR at RM 55K in any part of the world is rejected.

2. To categorize car and compare them based on similar weight is very bias.

Proton is not a really bad car, Engine wise i would say it is more reliable than any other continental car, but in terms of interior and exterior quality, it is sucks. My had previous bad experience with a Satria and Iswara, power window malfunction are not uncommon thing, some silly sound from the back, central locking problem, and some cheap plastic on the dashboard.

But anyway, i wouldnt complain anything if those Proton model are selling at more reasonable price. People are complaining mainly because we paying too much for a low quality car.

Imagine a Waja selling at….(what is the price of waja currently selling at?i am sorry since 5 years ago i have never put my eye on Proton car so i dont know the exactly the price they are selling), do you think it is worth your money?one more thing as understand from my friend who currently driving a Wira Super Edition, his maintainance cost are higher than i am servicing my Camry!!!

eg.
gen2 RM36k OffRoad –> RM46k OTR.
In australia (fair tax. only 2.5% tariff on imports)
still, Corolla RM60k OffRoad –> ~RM73k OTR. (NON INCLUSIVE OF INSURANCE comprehensive cover will set you back another ~RM6500 a year depending on age of driver, suburb where parked at night etc.)

___________________________________________
mukhri88 said,
August 8, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
They also know that they cannot compete even with 2 yo companies from China. I believe they’ll figure out something, maybe even conduct a market research before producing a new model.

## I think most people will favour a Proton over a Chery…

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Max88 said,
2. 3rd world mentality buyer/No-brainer:
Accept anything for any value of your money, crappily speaking.

## Not true. The malaysian govt has been pretty fair to the average malaysian family. Slowly it has introduced some brands to ‘push’ the 20yr old company proton. eg. Naza and Perodua. Dont say their cars are expensive. They are not. Compare the OnTheRoad (OTR) prices of the proton cars and the OTR prices of similar cars overseas and you will see that they are actually pretty similar. It’s only when you compare the OTR price with Off-road prices in other countries (on the internet) that things seem very biased. Ask anyone who has purchased a car overseas in recent years if you dont believe me.

Even IF proton/NAP didnt exist, a Corolla/Civic would be around RM70k+ OTR. Proton is making a similar sized sedan for ~RM36k…~RM50k OTR. Sure, no high tech stuff…but how often does the average person rev to 4500rpm+ where DVVT/VTI starts to kick in?

Owh, and pls dont compare it to the RM55k City (a budget mini sedan based on the ~1000kg jazz platform) in Langkawi… It’s a different sized car alltogether – more suitably compared to Proton’s upcoming budget mini sedan based on the Savvy platform…that should be significantly cheaper than RM55k.

And Malaysians pay roughly 1/3rd the market price for petrol… and all the low prices of food and services as a result of that. The international price is about RM4 per litre currently for standard unleaded.

Ultimately, we are a 50yr old developing country. Our PPP is three to four times lower than that of developed nations – when working unskilled jobs (eg cashier. gardener) earns about RM40 an hour. So yeah… cars are more affordable, relatively, to people in developed countries.
—————————————–

Wong,
glad you like the movie soap opera.

Hi, alfa 147 only came out from the year of 2002 plus there is no 1.5L, in malaysia only had 1.6L manual or 2.0selespeed. Alfa only produce boxer engine, boxter is some others car modal. Please ensure before say it out loud.

==what u mentioned, alfa romeo twinspark or v6 jts engine is a boxer engine, are u sure of that?
by the way, this new sedan haven’t launch yet. so the name persona don’t know is confirmed or not.

Bigfish, this is the third time im gonna say this in this topic.

INTERNET PRICES ARE *NOT* _ON THE ROAD_ PRICES.
———————-

This is not OTR price then what price they are displaying? OK maybe plus RM 2K insurance????

They also know that they cannot compete even with 2 yo companies from China. I believe they’ll figure out something, maybe even conduct a market research before producing a new model.

Try something, if it doesn’t work, try something else. No idea is too crazy. It becomes bad when the trying stops.