The Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi says the government has not decided yet whether to allow management control of Proton by Volkswagen AG. He cited Volkswagen’s insistence on wanting to be very certain of everything – you could call it cautiousness – as one of the reasons why the deal is taking some time to be finalised.
“We want as soon as possible but we cant force them to hurry up,†added Abdullah. Apparently Volkswagen is just waiting for a nod from the government in regards to the management control.
Looking to sell your car? Sell it with Carro.
after all that long……….long………long talk.
it all boils down to 1 thing…..management control.
come on hurry up…..celebrate ur raya and decide on it…..cheers!
Give chance laahhhh to Pak Lah, as the nation’s first angkasawan, Pak Lah still has lots of adventures in the outer space between his two ears…… Sorry Dr Sheikh!
To our government,
Please be sure your decision is going to be right one. It is not easy to build a car industry to the level of achievement of PROTON today. If you not sure P1 will exist after the participation of VW, then better to create PEROTIGA for VW involvement in producing new car models as national car, like P2.
Yes, all of malaysian want to have quality and affordable car. But if the participation of VW in P1 could not reach that mission, then might as well invite company like TATA from India to give P1 some tips on cost saving.
If we just want to save our face with participation of VW, so our car industry will still viable after 2009 when AFTA be fully implemented, then we seem have not much choice but to sell our P1 to them.
But I still hope P1 will continue his mission as the leader, and not as a follower…as nothing great achievement i can find in P2.
scorpicore: I’m touched by your post. Thats the price of globalisation. After Sh Muzaphar, our next challenge is to have an ISS in orbit…….Malaysia Bolehhhh!!!!!
Pak Lah, Pak Lah……………stilll sleeping kah? VW is WAITING FOR YOU, not YOU WAITING FOR THEM. Sigh……….
… digging the grave deeper and deeper …
No ending…….TALK only mAH!
It’s alright. Take your time. No need to rush…
ask yourself, who wants to buy that kind of lost, moreover it’s not lost for only a year, but in next three years! Please be more realistic when come to bussiness…
I’m with scorpicore on this. But err, Perutiga?
The keyword or play game is still “waiting …………………”!
stop waiting lar , stupid government.
Wake uplah Lah, we consumers can’t wait for a rebadged Golf (nay, probably not), SEAT or SKODA to come out. I promise to be a good boy and buy one Proton car after this!
tommy73 are you sure, that u will buy P1 car?
How about the hardcore basher? Do you still wanna continue bashing P1??
In my opinion, VW will do the same as Skoda or Seat, they come and conquer then they leave when P1 is cleaned from mold, snails, cows and donkeys. What VW need is a factory for this region since Thailand is mainly conquered by Japanese, of course VW need to try another place. Indonesia is politically unstable, Singapore has limited space and China is controlled by Ah-Long’s & Ah Cows…
If they want Proton to survive… pls give full control to VW. I seriously don’t think VW will f***ed it up because they are pumping some money into the company/JV.
However, if they do f***ed it up… there is always Perodua or Inokom around.
Glowjo, I don’t give a sh*t who own Proton. If Proton can come out with cars with the right quality at the right price, I will support them. If they still can’t compete with the Japanese, or even the Korean after more than 20 years, better tapao bungkus. I hate loser, don’t waste my time and my tax money, fire yourself and get lost.
Just hope we not going to give another 20 years to proton…again…
It is globalisation after all, you don’t go to them ,but it come to you…
Be prepare for the tougher competitions from other Asean countries…
if proton continues to make cars that sell wells like persona then go jual mahal la.
im not worry
Coz u not worry laa.. coz Proton is not ur company maa… U just a forumner…
If u are 1 of those louzy cronies working for proton, i think u are the one that worries… Coz for sure VW will kick out those overpaid guys either for cronies or officers working in Proton.. Remember the audit report? I bet proton cronies will be worried like hell if sell to VW.
Cronies! kick their ass…………….
Waite here waite there, talk here and talk there – pi mai pi mai tang tu jugak.
morning guys…
I dont know why some people always think negative about proton… come on la malaysian, have u seen what happened to the iranian people… all of them try to support all of their domestic industries, do u know why.. one day if japan, us, uk, korea dont want to sell their car or spare part to our country.. all of u pergi kerja jalan kaki la!!! it happened to iran when one contry decided to stop supplying aircraft spareparts because they dont like iran.. Did u think they really love malaysia?… forget it la. for me i always support proton and hope that malaysian government will think deeply before making any decision…. love my country… and love all of u… wake up guy!!!
emon said,
dont know why some people always think negative about proton… come on la malaysian, have u seen what happened to the iranian people… all of them try to support all of their domestic industries, do u know why.. one day if japan, us, uk, korea dont want to sell their car or spare part to our country.. all of u pergi kerja jalan kaki la!!! it happened to iran when one contry decided to stop supplying aircraft spareparts because they dont like iran.. Did u think they really love malaysia?… forget it la. for me i always support proton and hope that malaysian government will think deeply before making any decision…. love my country… and love all of u… wake up guy!!!
————————————————————-
you are so funny la. you think car sparepart like aircraft spare part ke? need get through stringent test. if there’s any problem you think malaysian cannot produce their own spare part ke?. this topic talks about VW-proton partnership la. don’t talk about until that stage la.
Hidup emon!! Brilliant comment. Anyway Selamat Hari Raya and tommy73!! go back to your kampung… count how many Malaysian can afford to buy cheap and yet safer car than kancil..
Peace~
aku rs individu2 gomen yg involve with decision making (whether to give or not to give) have to solat istikharah ( solat minta petunjuk). as 4 myself, God always right. the logic is, after u try to negotiate, but to no avail, ask God to help u. ni bkn ceramah pagi, tp nk ingtkn gomen je:)
Viel Glück!
oversight.. u said i’m so funny… thank u… that jokes only for u.. other people will think different from u..
emon said,
October 11, 2007 @ 7:34 am
hahaha, dude,
if japan, us, uk and korea don’t supply parts to us. still got under neighbouring country, singapore also got lots of parts, thailand, phillipines and indonesia also do manufactures parts for vehicles.
dude, every citizens love their own countries but always supporting own makes is totally a different issue. we consumers must be wise choosing and buying. quality built is very important indeed. think again please. happy holiday and selamat hari raya.
This kind of stupid lousy proton company better close up, this type of fcuk car get accident confirm die inside. for those who still driving proton car becareful, one day you get minor accident confirm die if you scare then better sell it the stupid no safety design proton car. Hari raya comming should be a lot accident, sooner it will become hari mati-raya day. so becareful on driving this type of most dangerous proton car in world. MALAYSIA BOLEH ! boleh what ? in auto industries just think how to make money and profit, does not care saferty, production control and part using simple replace low quality. MALAYSIA TAK BOLEH !!! MALAYSIA TAK BOLEH!!! MALAYSIA TIDAK BOLEH !!! MALAYSIA TIDAK BOLEH !!! in car industries. Proton please safe malaysian life don’t product car, please close shop! please close up! PROTON PLEASE GO TO HELL ! DON’T LET MALAYSIAN LIFE GO TO HELL !!!
emon said,
October 11, 2007 @ 10:46 am
oversight.. u said i’m so funny… thank u… that jokes only for u.. other people will think different from u..
—————————————————————-
you think our Goverment can simply let things happen until to the stage like you mention above? they know what they’re doing except for some issue. they know better than you la. who do you think you are? a visionary? when people talk about Proton-VW agreement, just talk about that thing la. talk about spare part pulak……
“Apparently Volkswagen is just waiting for a nod from the government in regards to the management control.”
_______________________________________
It’s all about VW wanna get rid of bloodsuckin’ cronies faulty autoparts suppliers.
Of course Pak Lah will sleepy zzzz on VW request.
khengyi82 said,
October 11, 2007 @ 11:24 am
This kind of stupid lousy proton company better close up, this type of fcuk car get accident confirm die inside. for those who still driving proton car becareful, one day you get minor accident confirm die if you scare then better sell it the stupid no safety design proton car.
-Aiya…last monday 5 people killed in accident….using Toyota Harrier, so what’s the big deal…
I will never think of buying a Proton car until they seriously improve their quality…although I do like the look of a Perdana!
And I think partnering with VW will help Proton in making quality cars, they don’t have to compete with perodua that way. Proton can produce higher quality cars and Perodua affordable cars, so both have different markets. I support the Proton-VW partnership in other words. As long as the price of the cars after that don’t overhike.
VW just want a “nod” from the gov? wow….
When G send one astronout , you said “he only tourist astronout”.
When G try to a make our own car, u said “stupid lousy car company ”
Believe me ,you could translate this in proper way,,, some forumer here too rude… no need your hell word, just give your info so we could get/share some knowledge here and read good review.
-About Iran comment, i think it is good point. I read that it also happen to Iraq in 1990, but in telecommunication tech. It good to be prepare. Our southern neighbour also always have military training.why they have it? “just to be prepare” even we are good neighbour.
-so my point , who ever get P1 share, make sure design center still in malaysia.not in europe!!! at least for malaysian car market
emon said,
October 11, 2007 @ 7:34 am
morning guys…
do u know why.. one day if japan, us, uk, korea dont want to sell their car or spare part to our country.. all of u pergi kerja jalan kaki la!!! it happened to iran when one contry decided to stop supplying aircraft spareparts because they dont like iran.. Did u think they really love malaysia?… forget it la. for me i always support proton and hope that malaysian government will think deeply before making any decision…. love my country… and love all of u… wake up guy!!!
———-
This is the wildest imagination, car spare parts mainly supplied by developing country. You just order from China, what part you want also can get!
By same moron imagination, if they really stop supply spare part, do you think we still can drive Proton and not jalan kaki.
1. Perdana – rebadge from Mit Eterna – uk, japan, etc stop supplying means Perdana may left with locally make seat, steering or the tiger head badge only. The whole body and engine import from Japan.
2. Same to Savvy, if Renault stop supply engine, then you have to drive Savvy like flinstone stoneage car power by your two leg.
3. It is even same thing happen to Persona, Gen-2, Waja using Campro, piston also supply by Australia, so the engine not working as well.
Don’t make unnecessary imagination, Iran case is more on military equipments!
Thank u for all respond & comments… selamat hari raya and maaf zahir batin….
Selamat hari raya to emon and all who celebrate Aidil Fitri.
– Bulan Ramadan bulan yang mulia, malam jumaat malam buat anak!
volkswagen pls close down proton
Guys, in the spirit of Hari Raya, I would like to wish all Muslim Malaysian Selamat Hari Raya, Maaf Zahir Batin. If I have offended anybody in the course of commenting on Paul’s blogs, I ask for your forgiveness. Malaysia can only improve with sound thinking Malaysians giving challenges and supports when it calls for. Cheers!
I have to agree with julien on this. I think Proton has to be shut-down. What’s the use of haiving such a pathetic company? VW should re-sell it to the Geely at; let’s say RM100,000. Why?
Simple let’s say RM100 miilion (net assets) less RM90 million (badwill not goodwill) = RM100, 000
(Proton’s unsual practices had resulted in MIA introducing a new Accounting term for it.)
Let see what happened when P1 tapau or bungkus…Are those people who always wanted P1 to closed & give a negative comment is not Malaysian?Proud to be Malaysian beb…selamat hari raya!!!
khengyi82, what the hell are you talking about? maybe you need help…
khengyi82, seriously you need to contact the nearest psychiatrist man!
To the rest of you, Selamat Hari Raya Aildilfitri. Careful driving and enjoy during Raya :D
khengyi82 has given us an accurate account of what malaysia feels about Proton. Bravo khengyi82..
khengyi82, Proton close up will major affect our Malaysia Economics Growth… THIS IS FACT! later you wanna buy foreign car will more Expensive than now! You dislike proton then don’t buy it… don’t crap about what “proton go hell” that type of nonsence….
Selamat Hari Raya Aildilfitri, have joy in this Raya…. Most Important – Drive Safely and carefully during raya!! :)
kengyi82, after reading your comments,..I think it’s better you go ahead and go to hell…dont worry about others..
Quality and safety issues?
from a layman thinking………
Qty + safety = prices (high prices)!
Malaysian rakyat? income, can afford??
VW(proton) = quality & safe car, price maintained??? surely NOT!!!
Cheaper VWProton = ‘zero’ qty/safety
Result = Malaysian rakyat, cannot afford new VWProton. Cannot selling local, for export, VW huge profit, Malaysian rakyat nothing!!!
VW – laughing
M’sian rakyat – crying (lost pride and joy, buy secondhand)
Rich M’sian – buy imports, couldn’t care less!!!
Suggestion – DO NOT SELL!!! COLLABORATE
‘Selamat hari raya Aidilftri’
M’sian rakyat – crying (lost life and $$$…accident, parts failure), happy (buy secondhand Japaneses car which have better technology compare to proton new car…). Why must buy new car if proton continued to be protected in an unfair business environment? If i want to buy new car, i would wait until fully open market then see proton how to survive… Sure later discount that, discount here, 5 years warranty free… Even now discount 11k perdana lolz…
Today, i am quite confuse why a new Gen.2 user not more then 1 year can burn the engine by the roadside… The owner claim that he service the car just last week in Proton SC & now the SC don’t want warranty him… So kesian… Another burnt Campro… Hope persona don’t get burn, if kena mati loo…
LittleFire85, is it a true story or you’re just making it up? Engine burning, what colour is the flame, blue, red, yellow???
how many have burnt, 150 cars since 3 years,
how about other campros on waja and neo? should have burnt too by now
some old escort with intake and exhaust on the same side might be fire hazardous, or stucked starter might spark some fire, well… electrical do as well,
There are still protonomic mindset out there argue Malaysian can’t afford new quality car at affordable price in the event VW take over Proton! Sigh, what a poor kind of thinking that assume VW can’t produce economical car!
Go to Langkawi and has one day tour to all car dealers for all brands. Those blind defenders will find out the naked truth of NAP!
Look at link below: –
http://www.proton.com/about_proton/proton_world/proton_malaysia.php
For VW, the best part and most meaty to feast on Proton Tanjong Malim Sdn Bhd, the other five is outdated and outmoded liability!
VW management control is purely biz plan to secure their investment and maintain their reputation – and of course implement total change to Proton – free from cronies vendors and low end products.
TheDuck said,
October 11, 2007 @ 5:54 pm
khengyi82 has given us an accurate account of what malaysia feels about Proton. Bravo khengyi82..
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he represents the whole of Malaysia?..wow…
lol proton bashers out in vengeance typical….
Look VW does not give a shit about national pride or making proton a better car company. They want proton for producing vw cars for export. Proton will be the same shitty car as it is now. Think about it la why would vw spend millions to fix and tidy up proton when they can make millions from day one? The people will still have to buy proton anyway… so its still a win win situation for VW, and the cronies…. ALSO dont forget VW isnt really the most clean handed ppl in the automotive industry. Paul did cover this article bfr http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=12772
Your definitely deluding yourselves on that fantasy vw buying proton will make it better. And for the cronies they will be fine just move on to another gov. link corporate co to screw over. The NAP will be still be the same crap policy which makes ppl like naza bloody rich, and you the same bashers on this forum for many years more.
The only true losers are the people.
Hei that why VW come to Malaysia… All corrupted by $$$, Sex & power… Haiz… Paxter u r very good!
People want to able to drive cheaper car, vw will not bring hope to proton, how about let proton become the assembly plant for other companies and
no more protection, people can buy cheaper car, more car factories can build in malaysia, more jobs, more income for gov and people, it is win win situation…
biasalah paxtar, if matsalleh/japs do curruption acceptable, if local people do corruption ,unacceptable. Our typical minded :) Malaysian alway jealous to Malaysian, to make sure we all the same level, no one richer then us :P
Do you all think that when VW come to malaysia, so car get damn much more quality? To me P1 want good high class car to replace Perdana. New pesona will survive another 15 years(same goes to wira). And VW to conquer Malysia market using G policy.
mits27, i rather suggest P1 to slit to two, manufacturer and car design owner.i think ur idea about VW want assemble plant is TOTALLY right,.. but i dont think P1 will let other company totally design ALL part of their car.instead P1 want to hijack VW good model ,that proton policy. To share assemble plant with VW is good idea, but it not give oppurtunity to hijack ( plz dont get me wrong,i not fire u, i give my opinion)
eh i don’t get it. abdullah is saying “we want them to hurry up” but vw is waiting for abdullah to give a nod? HUH? you’re delaying them and yet you want them to hurry up?
ZZzzz… Pak Lah is sleeping again…
leonardliew said,
October 11, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
khengyi82, Proton close up will major affect our Malaysia Economics Growth… THIS IS FACT! later you wanna buy foreign car will more Expensive than now! You dislike proton then don’t buy it… don’t crap about what “proton go hell†that type of nonsence….
——————————————
You’re one of the few fellas here who thinks that without Proton, cars will actually be more expensive and you even say THIS IS FACT. Can you please share your FACT to substantiate your claim? I want to see how much you understand about economics… and how you can explain their yearly losses of hundreds of millions actually help Malaysia’s economy. Thank you.
Proton. Please LIQUIDATE
Let’s protect our future generation by ending the Proton menace now. It’s done NOTHING to our country but providing AVERAGE malaysian’s with pathetic cars. It’s irresponsible for anyone to even contemplate Proton’s benefit to our society.
Sigh. People are still as confused as ever. Don’t forget that it is not the Proton management who goes to the nego table with VW; it’s the Khazanah people!
And Proton is a public listed company — it’s here to stay whether you like it or not.
Like it or not Proton forms the fabric of our economy. If you don’t try to be part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. If you really hate anything Malaysian and seriously looking forward to close down entities that don’t perform up to your world standard, then close down the RTD or the Police force or the Kementrian Pendidikan, UMNO or MCA backed Along institution, etc. These are more injurious to the health of ordinary Malaysians than Proton.
leonardliew said,
October 11, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
khengyi82, Proton close up will major affect our Malaysia Economics Growth…
———————–
KL-ATR, this fella even don’t have the most basic economic understanding – Supply and Demand curve behavior. In free market demand curve only can affect the economic growth, supply is in response to demand. Proton is supplier of products, if Proton or any supplier closed down, there are still plenty of other suppliers to fill the void!
Pity this poor fella perhaps katak just jump out from the well!
Selamat Hari Raya to all Proton Supporter and Basher. Also to blind defender and basher.
In my opinion, I think that since a lot of you are complaining about the fact that proton is such a terrible car maker, i say why not give VW a try? I mean, at least with VW, we stand ‘a chance’ to produce better quality cars, if it doesn’t happen then tough luck! It’s better than proton hanging there right now going no where. And i think you can throw the ‘Close Down Proton’ subject out of the window, the government will never let it happen, so let’s stop talking about closing down proton la…it’s pointless.
On the matter of prices going up for cars made by VW-Proton, so does the quality right? If the price goes up, the quality has to as well, or else who’s gonna buy it? If for example a ‘waja’ category car costs around 60k now, it might costs 75k after the improvement made by VW-Proton…that would put it in the same category as the likes of Vios and City but this time with more quality. If that’s the case, i believe it will be able to compete against the likes of those car makes. It might not outsell them but the point is that it can compete against them and that would be a step forward for proton even if their sales might decrease, it establishes proton as a higher quality car maker in the long run. I mean let’s forget about proton beating the toyotas and the hondas, after all toyota is the largest selling car maker in the world now… let’s just look at proton improving for now…re-establishing their brand first in Malaysia, then step by step at a bigger scale.
I’d love to hear some replys…please be polite in replies, i’d appreciate that, it’s just opinions after all… : )
If Waja 75k should compete wif Atis & Civic not vios & city… Coz altis 1.6L in Langkawi is between that price… Waja can consider as proper family sedan..
I think is the Persona who should fight Vios & City coz without tax i think is between RM50k.. If u want to know how Malaysia will do if car no tax.. Go to Langkawi & Labuan and see and count how many perodua & proton cars can u see on the road today…
If 1 day i can see Langkawi full wif Proton, then i can say bravo! Proton u done it!
i have a small request for those who say proton should close, deal? give me reasons, with explanations and facts behind ur hypothesis. not just nap, n other fantasies u guys fantasizing.
another trivia questions for those who tot they are smart n pro efficient in economic. any1 know how korea get out from 1997 economic downfall? with facts and reference to back u up! not just typing in thin air, thx.
free speech comes with responsibilities, if u cant take the responsibility, u arent even free speech-ing, its fantasizing in ur own world
another thing is, when ur so called tax free environment really achieved, ur T & H brand will not have the same kind of interest rate as now, tat also affect proton, n in d end, banks will not earn as much ;) haha another conspiracy spread by me
Nicely said, BMWfan. Giving VW the management control might sound better cos we believe with the involvement of the aforementioned established manufacturer, things would look up better for Proton especially quality wise. On the other hand, it might be a hard decision to come to for Proton for their own reasons. Any decision that the government comes up with, it is not guaranteed that most of the publics would agree with. Each one of us may have our own beefs but in the end, there’s nothing much we can do but to see how the matter turns up in the end. Being a consumer, of course we’d like the best for our hard earned money even if it means buying other brand over Proton. You gotta give some credits though, from the day Proton was born and grew up to what it is before this Proton and VW issue.
Being what it is for the past few yeas for Proton, I’d say, Proton, whatever you do, don’t screw it up.
fastcx, since you are at least implied that you are disagree with close shop and agree with NAP. Then put forward 101 facts and 1001 strong argument as to why Proton have ot continue open under NAP.
Free talk and ask other to proof something is easy! Now the ball is kick back to you and see how you handle it!
fastcx, don’t come out with pathetic protonomic and crap-triotic arguments as to why Proton need to open shop under NAP with steady flow of tax payer monies!
BMW fan argument reflect the reality of Proton long term survival!
LittleFire85 give the naked fact on the ground!
:) bigfish, u r living in d big fact world now, do i hv to put out any other fact? gv us a few reason to support all ur speeches, no need to redirect to me when u cnt answer it
littlefire85, the last time I was in Langkawi,around 8 years ago,I do see a lot of Protons and Peroduas, full of it ?..well not sure..can’t remember..but I do remember driving my friend’s Saga and a Kancil,..have a lot of friends there, maybe I can ask them…..Selamat Hari Raya to all..happy and carefull driving…
KL-ATR said,
October 12, 2007 @ 9:26 am
leonardliew said,
October 11, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
khengyi82, Proton close up will major affect our Malaysia Economics Growth… THIS IS FACT! later you wanna buy foreign car will more Expensive than now! You dislike proton then don’t buy it… don’t crap about what “proton go hell†that type of nonsence….
——————————————
You’re one of the few fellas here who thinks that without Proton, cars will actually be more expensive and you even say THIS IS FACT. Can you please share your FACT to substantiate your claim? I want to see how much you understand about economics… and how you can explain their yearly losses of hundreds of millions actually help Malaysia’s economy. Thank you.
_________________________________________________________________
KL-ATR,
yearly losses of hundreds of million wont help malaysia’s economy but i dont see malaysians gaining anything if proton were to close down..first we will loose a national carmaker,secondly we have to rely on foreign carmakers,then we wont have a vision for the future..what i mean is if we dont have proton our talented engineers,designers,technician and etc will not have a proving ground and a stepping stone..we have to go outside the country to look for jobs..and our automotive R& D development will be next to NOTHING,foreign car makers will have control over the price of their car since the dont have competition/competitiors..so they can raise or drop their price as they wish..you dont need to learn economics to understand all situation..just assume Muthu and Keong has a minimarket in town and only both of them cater the entire town…when muthu sells at 20 cents per egg keong will want to sell atleast at the same price to be competitive..if muthu is selfish and want to make extra profit and sells at 30 cents per egg..and if keong is equally selfish..people in the town have no choice buying it at 30 cents…u might say if one of these guys sell it at cheaper price and by selling more they can make more profit..but the town is not big and people dont eat egg everyday..so pricing it higher will help them make more profit in shorter time..so we need new people like ahmad in town who buys directly frm the farm and sell it at 18 cents per egg so that muthu and Keong will atleast try to sell eggs as low as they can since they are well establish in the town they still can make some profit from their daily customer who trust them…
hope you get what i meant with the short story..we dont buy millions of cars per year,we are not a big as china,india,US or Europe..so making extra profit and selling lesser cars here would not harm large car makers like toyota or honda..so if proton stays here in this country prices will be low and much more competitive plus you will get more value for your money..
and one last factor i dont want proton to close down is this forum will be boring and blind bashers will not be able to make a joke out of themselves…
selamat hari raya…drive safely and put your seatbelts on…
another important FACT is..proton is not the only automotive company which is losing money right now…many others..even automotive giants like ford,chrysler, and etc is losing money too..even VW is not doing so well…so we cant just blame proton for doing bad business but we can see the industry is doing badly..so we can safely say this is one of the factor why proton is losing money but entirely not because of the this reason…i still have hope on proton,some days they will produce world class cars,they will be sold around the world..they will be the pride of the nation..hope the day will come soon…
what i dont want to hear someday someone saying malaysians are driving rebadged cars and not fruit of their labour and any country can do it..like how people are talking about our space programme..i will be more proud if we built our own spacecraft/rocket and reach outerspace rather than being a passenger of someone’s effort…i bet many malaysians want the same…for that we still NEED proton!!
fastcx, I don’t shift the burden of proof to you to proof what other people said close shop is wrog, but just “kick back the ball” for you to proof what you said is right.
Selamat Hari Raya.
Prem3377
..we have to go outside the country to look for jobs..and our automotive R& D development will be next to NOTHING,foreign car makers will have control over the price of their car since the dont have competition/competitiors..so they can raise or drop their price as they wish..you dont need to learn economics to understand all situation..
——–
This is Protonomic talk …………..
Prem3377
..i will be more proud if we built our own spacecraft/rocket and reach outerspace rather than being a passenger of someone’s effort…
———–
This is 101 year Mat Jenin day dreaming talk – so rebadge Astronaut, Cosmonaut or Taikonaut …….
Prem3377
bet many malaysians want the same…for that we still NEED proton!!
———-
This is crap-triotic talk, without Proton, PT forum is very boring as there is no crony, blind defender, protonomic make joke out of this forum!
Actually without Proton, if Toyota and Honda corner 70% of our market. PT blog are very lifely and entertaining since most of the comments are more focus on the enjoyment of owner a car, rather than currently more on complaint on high price crap quality car.
Prem3377,
========================
yearly losses of hundreds of million wont help malaysia’s economy but i dont see malaysians gaining anything if proton were to close down..first we will loose a national carmaker,secondly we have to rely on foreign carmakers,then we wont have a vision for the future..what i mean is if we dont have proton our talented engineers,designers,technician and etc will not have a proving ground and a stepping stone..we have to go outside the country to look for jobs..and our automotive R& D development will be next to NOTHING,foreign car makers will have control over the price of their car since the dont have competition/competitiors
———————————-
1) Did you ever see me crying for Proton to close down? Maybe you misread my comment but really, all I wanted was to understand how the heck khengyi82 can so loudly proclaim that he has FACTS that Proton closing down will affect Malaysia Economy in a bad way.
2) I don’t care if Proton close or not but I want the GOVERNMENT to get out of money losing businesses that THEY SHOULDN’T BE DOING IN THE 1ST PLACE. Any business the G is involved in means they USE RAKYAT’S TAX MONEY.
3) So a loss making company is a good vision for our future? Wow… what future are you looking at?
4) There are plenty of other companies that has platforms for our talents. I have a friend in the Petronas Sauber engineering team, designing engines in Austria.
5) “foreign car makers will have control over the price of their car since the dont have competition/competitiors” ??? Huh? Firstly, which car maker is currently competing with Proton? Secondly, with just City and Vios alone, they’re already competing like mad. What gave you the illusion that Proton promotes competition? They don’t pay the same amount of taxes like others. What competition?
Prem3377,
=================
hope you get what i meant with the short story..we dont buy millions of cars per year,we are not a big as china,india,US or Europe..so making extra profit and selling lesser cars here would not harm large car makers like toyota or honda..so if proton stays here in this country prices will be low and much more competitive plus you will get more value for your money..
another important FACT is..proton is not the only automotive company which is losing money right now…many others..even automotive giants like ford,chrysler, and etc is losing money too..even VW is not doing so well…so we cant just blame proton for doing bad business but we can see the industry is doing badly..so we can safely say this is one of the factor why proton is losing money but entirely not because of the this reason…i still have hope on proton,some days they will produce world class cars,they will be sold around the world..they will be the pride of the nation..hope the day will come soon…
————————–
6) Prem, we’re living in a globalisation time, borderless world, 21st century. You’re using eggs in a small town for comparison? Have you realised how many automotive manufacturers we have out there? And many more springing out of China? Malaysia may not sell millions but we’re the largest market in ASEAN and we sell way more than Thailand. Can you please explain WHY is Thailand CHEAPER if their market is smaller? To whomever el smarto who claims that without Proton, cars will be more expensive, can you please explain HOW Thailand without a Prothai can sell cars cheaper by 20%?
7) Prem my dear boy, to be a profitable auto manufacturer, WE WANT TO SELL CARS, not buy them. It’s plain economics. Everyone in this market knows that Proton can never be competitive coz they cannot sell enough cars to bring the cost down. Malaysia market is too small to sustain an auto manufacturer. Why did Proton only started to sell their cars now in Indonesia and Thailand? They should have done it 10 years ago!
8) Indeed, not all manufacturers are profitable but can you PLEASE SHOW ME WHICH GOVERNMENT IS DUMPING MONEY into a manufacturer to help sustain them? Tax payer’s money that I believe have exceeded RM3 Billion by now? When Nissan was losing money for 2 straight years, they were almost bankrupt and Renault rescued them. Oh wait, you thought the Japanese government bailed them out?
9) I have family members in the automotive industry even before I was born. I know friends who not only supplied components and parts to Proton but also provided IT services so I know a lot more than most of you think. If not because of the meddling hands of politicians in Proton, they can be profitable. They can produce high quality cars. So, if you want someone to blame for the mess in Proton, who do you look at???
Khazanah, just liquidate all your shares and get out of Proton.
fastcx,
how old are you? seriously, you have a problem, you know that? Why can’t you be more polite in the forum? I suppose you think that you know a lot of the car industry? Then why not run for Transport Minister?? Everytime I read your comments, I find them very mean and its as if somehow someone must have insulted you badly or maybe you’re just naturally a mean person!
“another trivia questions for those who tot they are smart n pro efficient in economic. any1 know how korea get out from 1997 economic downfall? with facts and reference to back u up! not just typing in thin air, thx.
free speech comes with responsibilities, if u cant take the responsibility, u arent even free speech-ing, its fantasizing in ur own world” (fastcx, October 12th)
First of all, I sincerely applaud to your extend of knowledge of knowing how Korea got out from 1997 economics downfall but must you really bring that up here in PT? Why don’t you read your own comment and consider this, what does it make of you? The greatest economist in Malaysia? fastcx, that paragraph practically challenges everyone here and to further shame yourself, it made you sounded like you’re the only one who knew the answer to your so-called trivia!
You got one thing right there though. Free speech do comes with great responsibilities! This implies to the rest of you! I don’t see why any of you should get so heated up in this forum. Isn’t forum a place for discussion? A peaceful and friendly thoughts sharing? If you don’t agree with a person’s comment, reply in a polite manner! Otherwise, laugh it off yourself and ignore it. Do you know how ridiculous this forum is with all these silly heated arguments? The only person I find making lots of senses here is KL-ATR.
Damn, I hate it when I’ve typed a long comment and it doesn’t appear after I submit and I have to type all over again!!! And this is not the 1st time.
Prem3377,
==============
hope you get what i meant with the short story..we dont buy millions of cars per year,we are not a big as china,india,US or Europe..so making extra profit and selling lesser cars here would not harm large car makers like toyota or honda..so if proton stays here in this country prices will be low and much more competitive plus you will get more value for your money..
another important FACT is..proton is not the only automotive company which is losing money right now…many others..even automotive giants like ford,chrysler, and etc is losing money too..even VW is not doing so well…so we cant just blame proton for doing bad business but we can see the industry is doing badly..so we can safely say this is one of the factor why proton is losing money but entirely not because of the this reason…i still have hope on proton,some days they will produce world class cars,they will be sold around the world..they will be the pride of the nation..hope the day will come soon…
———————————–
6) Prem, we’re in the globalisation era, borderless world, 21st century. You’re using eggs in a small town for comparison? Are you using dial-up access? Even then, you can order eggs online if you don’t want to buy from keong or muthu.
7) When you’re a manufacturer, you wanna SELL, not buy. TDM knew very well Malaysians can’t buy so many so obviously he had the export market in mind. We all know how well it went, hence the issue of high cost due to low production problem. And when I say high cost, I mean against other manufacturers in an OPEN market, not protected like Malaysia. Please don’t ask me to explain this… do your research online.
8) Do you understand the meaning of Economies of Scale? The reason why Toyota got to be no. 1 is coz they manufacture large volume. When they purchase raw materials at high quantity, they get it cheaper. So they kept cost low, maintain high quality and that is what makes everyone buy their cars. High quality materials means high reliability but it also costs more. At the end it’s worth paying for. Have you ever think that if Proton were to get high quality materials, their cars will cost another 20-30% more?
9) I still don’t understand how you can say that Proton promotes competition. Who are competing with them at the same price range and engine class? Look at Thailand. They don’t have a ProThai but their cars are 20% cheaper. So how they manage to compete and be cheaper than Malaysia? I want to hear you explain this part.
10) Oh sure, other manufacturers are also losing money but WHICH ONE has their GOVERNMENT BAILING THEM OUT? Do you see the difference now? Or are you blinded by all the nationalistic hoohah to even realise who ultimately is screwed? Khazanah should just liquidate their shares and stay out of Proton. Then we can see some light. Otherwise, they will just continue to drain all our tax payer’s money.
KL-ATR,
in business there is always a risk..you can be making good profit one moment and the next moment you loose so money..you cant be making money daily through share market daily can you??some day you loose sum and sum day u gain..that how proton is because its a business..
proton is a public listed company..so its not entirely tax payers money…and like MAS,TNB,TM and all major companies in malaysia did loose money..but effort has been taken to improve the situation and all those companies are in the black again..so why such a fuss when its proton??and proton is not sitting down doing nothing..they are trying their best to turn the situation..so why G should even consider closing proton where there is a bright future ahead for the company??and automotive industry is one of the largest industry in the world..so investing tax payers money in such industry is one of the best G move till today..and from there other motorsport activities in malaysia begun to bloom..from AH BENG modified cars till R3 are because of the motor industry…so can u suggest a better business the G can venture into with the tax payers money and business which will never loose money??if there is such business then i agree with you that the G is wasting our money on proton!!
about the competition..its not an illusion..cars are compared according to class mainly and not price..but even with cars similar class and price proton is still doing well for example naza suria and proton savvy,proton savvy and inokom atos, hyundai elantra and proton persona/gen2..proton is doing much better than the koreas in our market even when they are priced closely..so what you call this if its not competition??
ad being a national car proton is doing what it was planned to do..provide cheap and value of money cars…if you compare vios price in thailand..which is priced similarly with proton persona..i think proton persona looks a better bargain,more powerful engine,similar FC,similar space,better ride and handling,better basic accessories..and a better looking car..so why you think proton is not a competitor??honda and toyota does not have sales numbers anywhere near proton..so vios and city is no match in term of sales with proton persona,and gen2..but i do admit its due to the unfair NAP rates..lets look at it a simple way..why toyota and honda priced the YARIS and JAZZ at some crazy price..almost similar to altis and civic??are they really worth so much??just for a 1.5 mini hatch??they are mechnically same as vios and city..even interior they share alot..but why there is baout rm20000 difference??because they do not need to compete with any cars here..i mean national cars…so they can price it as much as they like and competitor do follow the trend,suzuki swift started at almost rm 80000, even kia rio followed with a starting price at 72000 for a 1.4 car!!because they dont have to compete with similar hatch from proton because proton dont have any!!
if proton were to produce similar class cars,i bet toyota and honda will atleast try to bring the price down around the same price as vios and city…that why i feel proton has an influence in the pricing of foreign makes…but i cant prove it to you..and you cant prove me wrong either…so basically its just my opinion on this matter…
cars manufacturer has the control over the price,do you notice that mitsubishi grandis is now priced similar to toyota wish and honda stream??how can they slash rm 50000 of the price??so were they selling it at first rm 50k profit or now they are now losing RM50000 per car??and they monitor their competitors closely..
you might rule out proton as a competitor because of unfair competition..but that the benefit of being in the home ground…and sales figures are important…if 2 million people wants to buy car this year…and half of them are forced to buy a proton or myvi because of cheaper price…toyota,honda,kia,hyundai,suzuki and etc will have to fight for the other half…how much can they sell??and people in this country now mostly taking 7 years of loan..so this 2 million people might not plan to change cars for the next 5 to 7 years…so pricing it right will obvious be very important factor for attracting ppl..and make people feel toyota vios and honda city is within reach..and who will they compare with??proton m i right??so why this can be called a competition??
BigFish said,
October 13, 2007 @ 8:45 am
Prem3377
..i will be more proud if we built our own spacecraft/rocket and reach outerspace rather than being a passenger of someone’s effort…
———–
This is 101 year Mat Jenin day dreaming talk – so rebadge Astronaut, Cosmonaut or Taikonaut …….
_______________________________________________________
i said I will be proud(read the word I again if you dont get it!!)…its not day dreaming…maybe it is for someone like you..but i am ambitious…and have high hopes of achieving/creating/inventing things that can do us proud…maybe people like you dont have such vision..i cant help it…
BigFish said,
October 13, 2007 @ 8:42 am
Prem3377
..we have to go outside the country to look for jobs..and our automotive R& D development will be next to NOTHING,foreign car makers will have control over the price of their car since the dont have competition/competitiors..so they can raise or drop their price as they wish..you dont need to learn economics to understand all situation..
——–
This is Protonomic talk …………..
______________________________________________________
dear MR PERFECT@BigFish,
let it be a protonomic talk..if you feel its wrong what i said why dont you give clear picture and correct me??i dont see you gaining anything by just saying i am protonomic!!and i dont gain anything too..so can you please explain in non protonomic way please?!!?
whether proton is around does not affect car prices in malaysia in anyway. once the market is fair then prices will fall to thier lowest. with proton around setting standard (a very low one at that) then the target market of other car makes will have to be shifted to a different target demographic i.e the richer class. effectively allowing them to raise prices since they are already cut off from the big piece of the pie after being taxed.
what i’d like to see is proton and VW team up and the government promote a fair car market.
proton achieves a monopoly on the car market….proton-vw tie will also do the same. which effectively means no benefit for the country.
Please be REALISTIC, with the level of disaster that PROTON is today, it is lucky to find VW. Cure our hungry stomach first before saving your face.
Another 25 years to protect PROTON will cause everybody to suffer (except few who have pocket enough).
Investors run away to Thailand & Indon, citizens driving inferiors & overpriced product, insurance premiums increase because accidents increased, etc.
i dont understand why some of you just wanna jump head first into a bottle by wanting to rush this sort of stuff…. its not buying Nike trainers here guys, this is big stuff, they cant afford to make mistakes, lest people like U bashers lashing at them …again…
Prem3377 said,
October 14, 2007 @ 4:52 am
A) so why G should even consider closing proton where there is a bright future ahead for the company??
B) so can u suggest a better business the G can venture into with the tax payers money and business which will never loose money??if there is such business then i agree with you that the G is wasting our money on proton!!
C) why toyota and honda priced the YARIS and JAZZ at some crazy price..almost similar to altis and civic??are they really worth so much??just for a 1.5 mini hatch??they are mechnically same as vios and city..even interior they share alot..but why there is baout rm20000 difference??because they do not need to compete with any cars here..i mean national cars…
if proton were to produce similar class cars,i bet toyota and honda will atleast try to bring the price down around the same price as vios and city…that why i feel proton has an influence in the pricing of foreign makes…but i cant prove it to you..and you cant prove me wrong either…so basically its just my opinion on this matter…
————————————-
A) PREM, I HAVE ALREADY SAID IT MANY TIMES. I THINK I NEED TO SHOUT FOR YOU TO READ PROPERLY. I NEVER ASKED FOR PROTON TO CLOSE DOWN. NEVER. GET IT? IF YOU DON’T READ PROPERLY AND ARGUE OBJECTIVELY, DON’T WASTE ME AND ALL THE READER’S TIME HERE.
B) What is a Government suppose to do? GOVERN THE COUNTRY!!! What the hell are they doing running businesses all over the place? Manufacture car, steel, built war ships to sell back to themself, what else? You still don’t get it do you?
C) Man, if you don’t know why Yaris and Jazz cost so much, you’re really wating all our time arguing here. PLEASE GO TO THEIR OUTLET AND GET THEIR PRICE LIST AND SEE HOW MUCH TAX THEY PAY. Then compare with Proton’s price list. ENOUGH PROOF? If you don’t know the difference in tax for CKD and CBU, stop rabbling here.
Prem, if you don’t want to open your EYES AND MIND to SEE THE REALITY, I FEEL VERY, VERY SORRY FOR YOU. Some choose to ignore the truth and refuse to believe that it’s happening. You have all the rights to do so. Good luck. There are some who just cannot learn.
http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/10/15/proton-volkswagen-deal-a-buyers-market/
Most German analysts see the comments made by Malaysian Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi as providing clues to Proton’s future survival. Abdullah said recently that Volkswagen was studying Proton for a possible strategic deal that could help “save†the Malaysian carmaker.
The word “save†is the keyword here as it implies, according to German industry experts, that Proton faces a gradual corporate death if it is not quickly resuscitated by someone with the financial muscle of VW.
Make no mistake everyone knows the situation Proton is facing so dont keep lying to yourself that this company is not in deep deep poo poo. And they are making improvements and good cars.
Prem3377
why toyota and honda priced the YARIS and JAZZ at some crazy price..
if proton were to produce similar class cars,i bet toyota and honda will atleast try to bring the price down around the same price as vios and city…that why i feel proton has an influence in the pricing of foreign makes…but i cant prove it to you..and you cant prove me wrong either…so basically its just my opinion on this matter…
——————–
Log on below to find out naked truth and fact;
http://www.toyota.com.my/
OTR price for
Langkawi = RM 55,198.78 (Individual Private)
Labuan = RM 55,840.58 (Individual Private)
So the above proof you are totally wrong to say Proton can bring down imported car if they make similar class/model. The true facts is, NAP will jack up any imported models with blood sucking tax that become direct competitor to Proton’s models. If that is not enough, Non trade barrier like AP is imposed to set quotat in order to limit the nos of the models allowed to be import! This is WTO free market explanation, if you has Protonomics mentality still can’t understand or in denial syndrom, then I am sorry for your low mentality problems!
The abov erpices is refer to Toyota Yaris!
This is quote from the LKS blog provided by Kaboda: –
But VW, according to Winterkorn, would like to see the risks minimised and is also interested in Proton’s extensive network of dealers and agents.
But he also emphasised in the interview that VW was “nowhere even near a due diligenceâ€. He would first see what concessions Malaysia had to offer.
However, German industry pundits said that VW could afford the luxury of waiting longer while the Malaysian side could not.
Indeed, VW will insist that the Malaysian government provides a “soft landing†cushion to compensate it against any losses at Proton for, at least, three years.
—————–
Look like VW looking for “lucrative concessions” form our G just like any other GLC or highway concessionaires!
Among other hypotheses are in the event VW hold 20% share or less than 50% without management control with local politician head honco in driver seat: –
1. If the profits is less than projected, then our G have to use tax payer monies to compensate them.
2. If not allowed them have a free hand to kick the ass out of cronies vendors supply crap parts, G have to use tax payer monies to compensate them.
3. If losing monies for the sake of do not achieve certain sales figure under Proton brands, then G again have to use tax payer monies to compensate them.
4. If losing monies, G also have to use tax payer monies to compensate them.
5. If they make huge profits, then all go into their pocket!
Talk so much about Protonomics under NAP-mania!
Once FTAs free market come in and let market demand determine the fair price as the case in the computer sector. Then the reality is Proton need partnership. Big world class player even like Toyota also “consolidate” previously, by acquired Hino and Daihatsu. What Proton have or can offer in the market that they are just like what Maurino described as “the special one” to be stand alone?
VW have the “luxury” of time, technology and financial resources, Proton is running out of time, losing monies and need capital injection and technological partner to turnaround its long term survival! There is no alternative route to this.
KL-ATR said,
B) What is a Government suppose to do? GOVERN THE COUNTRY!!! What the hell are they doing running businesses all over the place? Manufacture car, steel, built war ships to sell back to themself, what else? You still don’t get it do you?
______________________________________________________________________
you should understand how the G govern the country first…you are not answering my ques…and your answer dont make sense..Government should govern the country rite??the why were you bothered at first about using tax payers money to venture/invest into money losing business/company(proton)…and its impossible to run the country with money frm tax payers alone…so these kinda bussiness are run to get more revenue and further develop the country…and if the Government dont fund us..who will??even giving out loans is a form of business…so PTPTN is also a sort of investment and business…by just governing the country..and government around the world wouldnt survive..developing countries need government support the most…almost every government has theisr business and companies..brunei is entirely supported by its government run businesses..please dont try to ans question this way so u can run from away from the existing question…
C) Man, if you don’t know why Yaris and Jazz cost so much, you’re really wating all our time arguing here. PLEASE GO TO THEIR OUTLET AND GET THEIR PRICE LIST AND SEE HOW MUCH TAX THEY PAY. Then compare with Proton’s price list. ENOUGH PROOF? If you don’t know the difference in tax for CKD and CBU, stop rabbling here
__________________________________________________________________
i do know whats the difference between CBU and CKD..but you dont get the point man…even vios is not a CKD here..the tax doesnt matter here..and why would honda and toyota invest in building facilities CKD/CBU here in this region for cars like vios and city when their mechanicals twin brought in from japan as CBU…thats my question……i am not asking you why they are expensive…my question are why its not as cheap as vios and city here….when basically bout yaris and jazz are the same car with just diferent outer skin…GET IT NOW????again dont run away from the question GET the ANSWER thats all…………
and THAT BARKING FISH still doing personal attack to peoples here and doing clumsy..
always in his narrow minded and hopeless = “If proton close and no tax, he can get cheaper car”.. Stop dreaming barking fish! this is bolehland!”
if i were toyota owner.. i won’t let down and decrease my car price in any way!.. even malaysia tax cutted all!.. i just make them love to hell of my dvvvvvvt3 , they sure will buy mine… even more proton is no more.. ;)
KL-ATR said,
October 15, 2007 @ 10:40 am
Prem, if you don’t want to open your EYES AND MIND to SEE THE REALITY, I FEEL VERY, VERY SORRY FOR YOU. Some choose to ignore the truth and refuse to believe that it’s happening. You have all the rights to do so. Good luck. There are some who just cannot learn.
___________________________________________________________
the topic between us is what affect proton has when it close down and its influence on other car manufacturers prices..it has nothing to do with NAP..because NAP is basically to help proton and its not worth talking bout it..because its like constant in an equation and its a well known fact the our tax structure is favouring proton by elemenating competition…but that doesnt stop other car manufacturers from stop selling or people from buying non proton car.. m i correct??so the next question is which cars are the closest rival in term or class…vios and city falls into this category..and thats why honda and toyota tried their best to price their car as cheap as possible to help sales…and my question to u KL-ATR, was why is that so??is it influence by proton??as simple as that….the same effort is not shown to its closest sibling the jazz which sells as well as city and yaris the compact version of the new vios…why dont CKD them and bring the price down??or atleast bulid in thailand and bring them here…why its not getting the same treatment like vios and city…do you get my point??same goes to u big fish…its nothing to do with you famous NAP argument where u so often bring is the LANGKAWI price list…..again the QUESTION IS WHY TOYOTA AND HONDA PUT SO MUCH EFFORT IN TO LOWER DOWN THE PRICE OF VIOS AND CITY??IS IT BECAUSE IT FALL INTO THE SAME CLASS OF PROTON??MAYBE PROTON HAS AN INFLUENCE IT THE PRICING OF THE BOTH CARS IF NOT..WHY VIOS AND CITY MECHANICAL SIBLINGS THE YARIS AND JAZZ ARE CBU UNITS FROM JAPAN AND NOT CKD NOR BUILT IN THAILAND??
i think you should open EYES AND MIND to SEE THE REALITY, I FEEL VERY, VERY SORRY FOR YOU KL-ATR!!you ont even get the point of argument..but already answer..haha..
agree with prem.
of course there’s another story of umw toyota. :D
they do business.. they dont even care about cheaper car for us.
wth giving malaysian cheapest car? do they only enough in 1-3K profit per car? so.. they just forced you to buy more expensive car in the name of technology? (that’s only 1% change? = so what’s technology for? for more money?)
imagine if there’s no more ‘internal feed / figther’..
i don’t think in any way you can got a single chance.. cheaper car?
prtfhhhhh (borrow someone style here)…
“money’s always smell good”
BigFish said,
October 15, 2007 @ 9:45 pm
Prem3377
why toyota and honda priced the YARIS and JAZZ at some crazy price..
if proton were to produce similar class cars,i bet toyota and honda will atleast try to bring the price down around the same price as vios and city…that why i feel proton has an influence in the pricing of foreign makes…but i cant prove it to you..and you cant prove me wrong either…so basically its just my opinion on this matter…
——————–
Log on below to find out naked truth and fact;
http://www.toyota.com.my/
OTR price for
Langkawi = RM 55,198.78 (Individual Private)
Labuan = RM 55,840.58 (Individual Private)
So the above proof you are totally wrong to say Proton can bring down imported car if they make similar class/model. The true facts is, NAP will jack up any imported models with blood sucking tax that become direct competitor to Proton’s models. If that is not enough, Non trade barrier like AP is imposed to set quotat in order to limit the nos of the models allowed to be import! This is WTO free market explanation, if you has Protonomics mentality still can’t understand or in denial syndrom, then I am sorry for your low mentality problems!
_____________________________________________________________________
bigfish…this again your trying to act smart syndrom…sorry for you…read again what i told…why do you have to bring langkawi price into the pic??did i mention anything about NAP??we know NAP exist and proton is protected..thats not the point…
to prove you a point…and using your favourite langkawi pricing to help you understand..and hoping you will get my point and get out of your act smart syndrome..
honda city 1.5 vtec,
Price List for Langkawi RM
Selling Price 55,863.50
Price List for Peninsular Malaysia RM
Selling Price 83,116.50
honda jazz 1.5 vtec,
Price List for Langkawi RM
Selling Price 65,573.50
Price List for Peninsular Malaysia RM
Selling Price 103,454.50
so my question is..why in langkawi honda jazz is only rm 10 K more expensive that city but with NAP and etc is rm 20k more expensive…and wait…thats not my question yet…why honda wants to price city so competitive with CKD version and why not jazz??so that jazz can be affordable as well??why bring jazz from japan??you may say city is designed for this region..but..every market is equally important for car manufacturers..and when the almost share 95% mechanically…the economic scale of both being ckd models is even better idea…but why no effort from honda to build a CKD version of JAZZ?? and it sells in number here…then only reason i can find is there is no CHEAPER altenatives here from proton..so why bother bringing down the price mentallity from honda maybe…there might be another and which i dont know..and need to know..and that what i been asking…not argument of NAP or protonomic…..and in dont want your bigfishnomic and as well…
bmpower,
yah bmpower you got a point as well..money matters…
For crying out loud, give P1 a break. Whenever paul updates any post relating to P1, it begins to have a virus out-break and gets out of hand and then becomes very ugly. Come on guys, simply put this way, the root to the falling apart of P1 is not entirely P1 by all itself, even if it has some to blame for. The invisible hand or some prefered to call it political-linked cronies, are the culprit behind the deteriorating of today’s P1. Spare me for not providing any evidences of this conspiracy theory but look at our country today, we are being silently sucked by GLCs and hard core fans still backing these monsterous and treacherous politicians yet and again. Next 1/1/2008, 10% raise for tolled highway, almost all basic needs are raising prices, even for controlled items. I awalys doubt the CPI announced, is it really 4%? I don’t know, you tell me. Like the space programme we have recently, is it worth while spending RM20 million or even more for it. I don’t know when even our local universities can’t even make it to top 100, what’s the point? You think by building the tallest building in the wold or making the biggest roti canai in the world makes us famous? I don’t know. I am a practical man with practical and decent man. When we can’t even improve on public services efficiencies, education level, public transport system, general security and nation’s competitive advantages against others, we are still struggling very hard to survive, even a decent basic meals, shelter and transport. Think about it.
Let’s place my argument into perspective.
Why Proton should close down?
A very obvious reason to any simple minded person. It’s an economic failure. (UNCOMPETITIVE, UNPRODUCTIVE, LAZY AND INCOMPETENT)
And YES! I speak on behalf of ALL current Proton-owning MALAYSIANS.
Sometimes such remarks can be rude and crude, how can we deny such an accusation?
Thinks about it guys?
sp error. think and not thinks. harap maaf.
bmpower said,
October 16, 2007 @ 1:15 am
and THAT BARKING FISH still doing personal attack to peoples here and doing clumsy..
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The above crap talk is the 100% proof you are the one that carry out personal attack!
2 wrongs doesn’t make it right, and if someone treat me nasty, then equal or more filthy response he will receive. Of course we shall engage in civilize manner, but when we see THIS BIG MOUTH POWER rantling about personal matter, then it is below the belt mentality cocky parrot talk! Anything you gain from this personal stinking attack?
Prem3377
to prove you a point…and using your favourite langkawi pricing to help you understand..and hoping you will get my point and get out of your act smart syndrome..
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OK look at your explanation, indeed good clarification as to why Jazz and Yaris sales with higher price + perhaps with greater margin compare to City and Vios.
Higher price for Jazz and Yaris may influence by the following factors: –
1. Jazz and Yaris is CBU from Japan, there is different between CBU and CKD (Vios and City) tax structure.
2. City and Vios are basic sub-compact entry level sedan for regional market target at lower income demography in this part of the world. Or Toyota term it as “local best”. Other models like Altis, Camry, Harrier, etc are all “global best”.
3. Jazz and Yaris is nitch market that do not sold as many as City or Vios, therefore their margin per uniy may be higher to justify the higher cost per unit to bring in the models. It is nitch market (small volume) vs mass market (big volume) that bring down to the lowest the prices for City or Vios.
4. Another factor is as what you said, they make more money per unit (higher % profit) for Jazz and Yaris compare to City and Vios (either influence by item 3 above or they maximize profit as what you assume). But at least Langkawi price show that under FTA-compliant free market environment, they offer the lowest price for Jazz and Yaris. This is not only happen to this 2 models under NAP-compliant prohibitive tax structure, but happen to many imported models. Look at CKD or rebadge models like Ria (Carnival), Caren, etc, all prices drop tremendously!
My point here is that it is therefore, NOT because of Proton do not produce similar model/class that make Honda and Toyota price the Jazz or Yaris at higher price and make bigger profit margin. But It is likely because of items 1 to 3 as above-mentioned.
Practically and historically, in market reality, if Proton make any models/class, other competitors similar models/class – NAP will whack prohibitive tax to make it prices sky high to protect Proton!
The above is my view and you can always disagree with it – be it because of your protonomic mindset or for a reason that best known to you!
bmpower said,
October 16, 2007 @ 1:15 am
if i were toyota owner.. i won’t let down and decrease my car price in any way!.. even malaysia tax cutted all!.. i just make them love to hell of my dvvvvvvt3 , they sure will buy mine… even more proton is no more..
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Not enough with personal attack, it comprise Bad Mouth Prrrrtthhh ……. some more. The above is the most shitty chimerical don quitoxe cocky parrot
free talk.
Toyota make tonne of monies all over the globe and become biggest car maker in the world just because of one reason with “5 ingredients” = volume + lowest price + quality + technology + innovation.
Prem3377
I know the answer… as to why YARIS and JAZZ sell so high.
That’s bcos Toyota and Honda are freaking hungry for profits and wanted to chop 20k for each unit they sell.
Even if proton or perodua din exists and NAP din exist.. they will still sell at very high price bcos all they want is to have 20k profits for 1 unit even there are not many people buying it.
1 sales can get 20k is enuf for them. That’s business model they are following now for Toyota and Honda.
They don care bout Malaysian.. they don love malaysian… that’s y proton exist to save our belove malaysian… by selling cars that is so so cheap which proton are making loss each year for the country…
That’s the answer all the protonian are looking for guys… no point argue. Just let them know proton is the “superhero” saving malaysian n they will stop argue with u.
Prem3377
My question now is.. why do we Malaysian need to protect Proton?
Ultimately let VW take over management control and let them run as truely biz entity!
As to why G so worry about Proton? It is not community based or welfare project!
bmpower said,
October 16, 2007 @ 1:22 am
prtfhhhhh (borrow someone style here)…
“money’s always smell goodâ€
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Easy money smell too good! That why G prolong the time VW take over Proton so that more monies can be make at last minute under NAP and AP by the cronies and their beneficiaries!
NoToLowQuality,
i dont know why proton is STILL protected and i am always against it..and also the NAP policies..but our country is small with only 23 million people and not all can drive nor buy a car..unlike JAPAN,US and EUROPE..even cars like volvo from sweden couldnt survive on their own because the population is too small and even capturing 100% of their market will not help them..same goes to proton..
but in proton’s case they just rely on the protection too much and was hoping it will help them all they way…they should have increase R & D and product better product and start think about capturing the asia market and then go to Europe..but the targeted european and australia market 1st and made situation harder because both this continents are extremely demanding and if its from asia..they do think twice…even up 1990’s honda and toyota had hard time selling cars in numbers in europe…
and when the fat lady started giving out APs and let naza product licensed national cars…proton was strugling even more and now they really needed the protection even more than before…even perodua was giving proton a hard time…the company should not exist at the 1st place and should have leave it to proton to produce compact car like kancil and kelisa so they can conquer the market shares…now proton savvy is trying to kill viva and persona trying to stop people from buying myvi…why should we compete among each other at all??so this are the reason for proton’s downfall..but its never too late…help is always on the way..and i hope the G will reduce the protection on national cars step by step…so that proton will not rely on that anymore…
If u can’t beat them….join them…I talking about Proton here..
If Proton can’t beat them ……. then G/NAP whack them … I am talking about Proton here in domestic market right now …….
bigfish, you talk as if what your saying is gospel truth, why dont you provide hard proof, coz if you cant prove it, its just as good as sedition.
‘Sedition’, is this word applicable in Paultan.org? Considering that all the remarks mentioned above are unsubstantiated (in any form).
Secondly, how can BigFish incite others when we are already incited by the fact that Proton is still operating under a lame ‘protectionist’ system.
Now, that’s the gospel truth.
shooter, ha, ha, ha, ……… sedition?
Log on below: –
http://www.askoxford.com/results/?view=dict&freesearch=sedition&branch=13842570&textsearchtype=exact
sedition
• noun conduct or speech inciting rebellion against the authority of a state or monarch.
So, by the above meaning provided by Oxford, Is that Proton is authority of a state or monarch? Your question with “sedition” is false in the first place and how do you expect other provide facts?
The facts is Proton just purely a biz entity majority own by G and they do not have any authority or royal blood? Perhaps “defamation” is more appropriate!
Anyway, every body entitle to their opinion.
“bigfish, you talk as if what your saying is gospel truth, why dont you provide hard proof, coz if you cant prove it, its just as good as sedition.”
waa… someone can even protect proton up to this level… i wonder what has proton done to deserve this treament?
hi prem3377,
mate, u still hv a lot to polish up about automotive industries, from ur comments i hv read. no offends. hahaha. we should enjoy more on cars.
missed out a lot lately overhere. been busy studying lorries and bus specs on my new project. interesting too. hahahaha
Prem, I give up on you. People try to explain to you but you just don’t get it.
QUESTION IS WHY TOYOTA AND HONDA PUT SO MUCH EFFORT IN TO LOWER DOWN THE PRICE OF VIOS AND CITY??IS IT BECAUSE IT FALL INTO THE SAME CLASS OF PROTON??MAYBE PROTON HAS AN INFLUENCE IT THE PRICING OF THE BOTH CARS IF NOT..WHY VIOS AND CITY MECHANICAL SIBLINGS THE YARIS AND JAZZ ARE CBU UNITS FROM JAPAN AND NOT CKD NOR BUILT IN THAILAND??
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Under new ASEAN agreement, cars manufactured in ASEAN gets lower tax, that’s WHY VIOS AND CITY IS CHEAPER. Factory in Thailand and Malacca.
Yaris and Jazz are fully imported from outside of ASEAN, hence full tax. This is why they’re cheap in Langkawi coz they enjoy tax free. If you still can’t process this info, sorry lah.
Is this simple enough for you to understand? If you look at their price list, you will see that the main difference in cost is TAX!!! So, it’s the G that’s making it 20k more! GET IT? Anyway, your question itself is proof of HOW LITTLE you know about the industry and taxation.
And don’t bother answering to my comment coz I’m not going to entertain people who don’t use their gray matter to study and understand before shooting down others with their limited knowledge.
ok, I stand corrected, how about defamation? and yes everybody knows about P1’s peculiar position in this market (read: protected) and how it has affected the market as a whole. that said, i never said I disagreed with the creation of P1, nor do I blindly defend it. I am however an opponent of the NAP. And yes, No to LowQuality and The Duck, i question too the need to protect P1. But hey, the Koreans imposed some kind of protection for their industry since the 60’s as well as the Americans in the 80’s-90’s, so what gives? Let me get one thing clear, I do not condone mediocrity in any form especially from those who are to lead and govern us.so yes, i do have my fair share of grievances with the ruling parties, but in my book that dont make them the devil….I grew up when the Pg bridge project was mooted, and the were voices saying it was an utter waste of public funds. fast forward to the present, the same voices fell silent with the announcement of the future second link (apparently the current bridge cannot sustain the traffic volume), guess who’s having the last laugh now? my point is we’re all on the outside looking in. unless someone here( read: blind bashers, prophets of doom, P1 sympathizers and fanatics) knows exactly what is being spoken behind closed doors and can, without a shadow of a doubt, substantiate what you’re/ they’re saying with proof , i’d say mind your language, please.
shooter said,
October 17, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
shooter – ok, I stand corrected, how about defamation?
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Better ask lawyer for legal advice!
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shooter – unless someone here( read: blind bashers, prophets of doom, P1 sympathizers and fanatics) knows exactly what is being spoken behind closed doors and can, without a shadow of a doubt, substantiate what you’re/ they’re saying with proof , i’d say mind your language, please.
You sound like put the burden of proof to “victims” rather than the “perpetrators”!
shooter – so next time the bank is rob by the thief. The thief can walk away free and you will query the bank manager for not having duty of care or “negligient” in safety aspect that merit for him at least being fire from his job or get jail term.
hey big fish, man, you’re shootin your self in the foot……the burden of the proof is on the one making the accusations, like you people saying this and that, but no proof………
“Easy money smell too good! That why G prolong the time VW take over Proton so that more monies can be make at last minute under NAP and AP by the cronies and their beneficiaries!”- PROVE IT…
“Look like VW looking for “lucrative concessions†form our G just like any other GLC or highway concessionaires!
Among other hypotheses are in the event VW hold 20% share or less than 50% without management control with local politician head honco in driver seat: –
1. If the profits is less than projected, then our G have to use tax payer monies to compensate them.
2. If not allowed them have a free hand to kick the ass out of cronies vendors supply crap parts, G have to use tax payer monies to compensate them.
3. If losing monies for the sake of do not achieve certain sales figure under Proton brands, then G again have to use tax payer monies to compensate them.
4. If losing monies, G also have to use tax payer monies to compensate them.
5. If they make huge profits, then all go into their pocket!”-PROVE IT
-“fastcx, don’t come out with pathetic protonomic and crap-triotic arguments as to why Proton need to open shop under NAP with steady flow of tax payer monies!”- PROVE IT…
tell you what, I’ll concede. you’re right and everybody else is wrong, thats why you dont have to prove nothing…..coz you got nothin….
shooter, you are right that “the bank manager after give the explanantion on the events of robbery, he need to proof that the event is not his negligent. Again the thief walk away free”!
shooter, this is PT blog, forum for cars and everybody entitle to their opinion(s). And it is not necessary every statements here is “accusations” as alleged by you.
This is not court proceeding and forumers here (they are not plaintif) don’t engage lawyer to submit statement of claim that people like you (you are not defendant) also do not not engage lawyer to make statement of reply. In anyway you don’t have the right to demand for proof from other “without a shadow of a doubt, substantiate what you’re/ they’re saying with proof”!
Look at their opinion, it is your right to disagree or agree – “leave it or take it”.
Remember there are 3 billion website and 70 million blogs out there in the borderless cyberworld! You expected everything is true! Ha, ha, ha, …… be more realistic!
Anyway go to PT search engine to look for archives, key in keyword like NAP, Geely, Proton, etc, you will find out a lot of truth!