The Intake Air Fuel Module for the Proton Campro engine is now ready, and is only awaiting Proton’s green light to begin production. This new IAFM is a basically a variable geometry intake system, developed under a joint fast track programme which began in April 2005 by EPMB, Bosch and Proton.
We first heard of it back in October 2006 where it was still in advanced tooling stages, and ever since then everyone has been eagerly awaiting for the first Campros to roll out with the new air fuel module. The IAFM varies intake manifold length to suit different engine conditions – a short runner length for high revs and a long and narrower runner length for low revs.
If designed properly, this can enhance an engine’s torque curve and also help improve the combustion process, making the engine more fuel efficient. This is much-needed with the current Campro engine, which has rather relatively low torque at low to medium engine speeds. The IAFM can be fitted to both Campro 1.3 litre and 1.6 litre engines. The new intake manifold is made of reinforced high thermal plastic which is lighter than the current Campro’s aluminium intake manifold.
“Variable air intake is nothing new to current engine technology. It is present in many engines from other carmakers. We are just happy to be able to bring similar advancement to the Proton Campro engine. This is a team effort with our EPMB staff, Proton engineers, Bosch from Stuttgart and Melbourne and our Korean toolmakers,” said EPMB director of research and development, Zulkefli Baharuddin.
On a side note, the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace (LIMA) exhibition to be held this December from the 4th to 8th will feature a locally manufactured hovercraft powered by a Proton engine.
Related Posts:
New air-fuel module for Campro
Looking to sell your car? Sell it with Carro.
Good. This will fix the big dip in the torque curve that ‘Lotus Engineering’ built into the Campro when they delivered it to Proton. They (Proton R&D or Lotus?) are STILL working on the CPS (Cam Profiling System) till now!??
We like to see more practical enhancements here in Proton.
“The new intake manifold is made of reinforced high thermal plastic……”
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Plastic component need so many parties involvement and take so many years to materialize? Anyway, it is still snail pace and peanut catch-up with competitior in this respect (i.e. “no improvement” in the market as they don’t offer something new tech).
Big Fish, maybe you should join Proton. I am sure your experience as a big fish and years of years of armchair expertise will be very valuable in speeding things up in Proton, since they are, as you know, being run by little fish who don’t know peanuts from bolts and nuts. Need an application form?
I wonder why it taking Proton so long to do this. Its not exacly new tech and not exacly difficult to make. Its just a plastic dual runner manifold and secondary throttle butterfy(ies) with a vacumm or solenoid based actuator working one a signal from the ECU that calculates the opening from TPS and rpm data
My 1991 4G63T “cyclone” had the dual runner setup and I’m sure its been done an even longer time ago.
It will definately increase the low end response of the Campro (ie. smaller, longer runners for low rpm, and larger , shorter runners for High RPM). Perhaps they can tune the cams for even slightly better high rpm performance if they didn’t have to worry about low end torque as much.
gosh, proton , no eye see
maybe the CPS need a team-size double of the this, and it takes another “double-years” for production ready…..
Proton just like kura-kura, read Paul others post about Hyundai Thetta II engine…..they advanced so fast & now their 2.0L engine can beat Civic 2.0L engine interm of HP….
Proton come-on……it’s all bcoz of a GLC where every decision need a “kepala-besar” to approve then their cronies won’t miss out on this “big-fruits”
so wait.. does it mean this enhancement can be “bolted” on to current 2004 – 2007 model of campro base on the last few paragraph? care to confirm on that?
hiii…i dah test benda tuuu..hehehe
Proton BLM will come with this upgraded Campro + IAFM first.
Congrats Proton.
At least we are seeing slight progress in Proton ‘introducing’ new technologies. Unlike back in 1990s under you know who?
I still dont know why an old simple technology which is used by many others manufacturer will need more then 2 years to finish researching on Campro engine?!? Proton always so slow in producing new technology in his own cars… Even CPS until now not even come out official… How about the Kleemann Supercharge? Also no news… In this globalization, technology like this should be fast to implement and sell, not wasting 2 years in doing researching which are already wasting time & money on those researchers… Why not push it to 1 year and sell it another year, sure this will earn more money right?
What i want to point out is that Proton need to speed things up, not wait until Open market than cemas-cemas came out all of it. Coz at that time, maybe other manufacturer will come out even better such like Honda A-VTEC. I am waiting to see that A-VTEC engine work compare to Proton CPS+VIM… So pls speed things up!
Just my ‘gut’ feeling. When Proton introduces something new, it’s best we take a wait & see approach. Let all the foolish buyers ‘test-out’ the rides first.
I mean , we wouldn’t want to be part of the LEMON batch right? (i.e. the Gen2 and Waja )
Paul Tan said;
On a side note, the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace (LIMA) exhibition to be held this December from the 4th to 8th will feature a locally manufactured hovercraft powered by a Proton engine.
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Can I have one?
Proton is more careful these days. thats why they need more time to make sure everything is perfect before launch it. Wise move but 2 yrs maybe a little bit too long for this type of R&D. looking forward to see more improvement from Proton R&D team. if they dont progress then pls dont blame Malaysian to look down on Proton. anybody here works for Proton? maybe we will get a clearer picture on how Proton R&D team works.
Personal suggestion: Proton should look at MPV segmant already. They should have advantage in malaysia market. but make sure it has good quality.
Actually is not only 2 years… if u all read the Berita Harian today, they already started since 2003 wif bosch…
its funny how some malaysians mindset is always negative in everything that come out from their own yard even if it is a good one..its like its permanently programmed in their brain..if you have an engineering background maybe you’ll know how difficult a particular technology can be realised on our own.its not as simple as copy and paste in your Paint..
I don’t think it is a simple bolt-on as u may have to reprogram the ECU or worse, replace it.
It seems Proton rather bundle it with new cars. Most likely 2008 or 2009 models.
Bare in mind, all new cars are electronically controlled and any upgrade to intake usually requires a new ECU or a new software update. This is not like old carbie cars where u can replace the carb and re tune the air fuel mixture with a spanner.
Even reprogramme ECU need take 1 year? I dont see those sport car wif heavy modification in tuning center changing to new racing ECU need take 1 month also? Some even 1 day can finish tuning and setting the new mapping in ECU… And this is just add a VIM need take so long? This is about the efficiency of the current management.. I felt like kura-kura is working in the R&D..
haha… of course it would take that long… dun forget this project have spanned 2 CEOs in proton. So the project would have been on-off-on-off when management changed.
to the people in the know… Are Proton-employed engineer equipped with the skillsets to remap the ECU in their cars? Or are they dependent on 3rd party vendors to do it for them. look there may be some brilliant engineers that were trained last time, but i heard many of them have left for greener pastures. So what’s left? fresh IPTA grads helmed by left-over engineers who arent that good to leave for greener pastures?
It sure is a helluva task to turn such a company around when you have such heavy saddle bags.
A little bit of Nissan-Ghosn type blitzkerig is what VW may need when they come in. (if they do come in)
memmmm.. ready to roll… hope not another two or three years to be on road.. :D
hmm… a good move… hope its a success… should fit into the car asap… probably they should do some interior work after that… stuffs like better quality n functionality… at least those basic needs in a car… prob they should install the dashboard of the new persona into that of gen 2… i think it will be better coz got glovebox…
jeriey said,
November 14, 2007 @ 9:15 am
hiii…i dah test benda tuuu..hehehe
_________________________________________
Care to share the feeling if having one in the engine??
i wonder if persona will get this installed..will proton sell it in the market if the current campro engine user want to install it?
proton’s topic will invite more comment and reader.so paul, post more news on proton and your blog will become more and more popular.
I personally think this is good news to all Malaysians. If we make a comparison between P1 cars in the market now with older generation, we can see a lot of improvement in term of quality and design. And with the new management team who concern and understand the “right pricing” concept, Malaysian generally still have the capability to but a new car rather than 2nd hand one. But still with the recent problem of high petrol price, the concern towards producing car with more effective fuel consumption should be given encouragements. Anyway, even other cars can have better technologies in that but their price are still high compared with our average income. But i do hope the introduction of Intake Air Fuel Module for the Proton Campro engine will be implemented fast (not with the reasons of the component of current Campro’s aluminium intake manifold still plenty in stocks!). Remember that kind of reason given when introduced persona with rear lights like Gen-2.
Can this be fitted to the current Neo? Hope so..
To me.. i guess they’re taking their time to make sure good working quality products are being produced.. plus you must know they joined up wit other companies to produce the Intake Air Fuel Module… could be “the other companies” who were slowing down the process… anywayz… its still a good thing to hear that improvements have been made eventhough it was slow…. better safe than sorry.. =) …all the best Proton..
like Chanel said, Proton is Kura-Kura. Well, i do agree this title since it is slower than other Car Co… eventhough there is not a new or latest technology which installed in the Campro, but Proton have shown it’s affort… hope that the new Campro engine will be alocated in new coming model….
Dont let us wait so long time….hehe
What’s the big deal of this ‘technology’ when it’s just another common car feature(on global standard now)? So proud as if Proton were invented the wheels, just like Al Gore claimed himself for inventing the internet. Yet, it took donkey years for Proton to develop it.
What’s next? Develop Campro to be run on juice from ketum leaves?
Maybe Proton can do it so as to increase global ketum leaves price, provide jobs to those mat rempits, lazy kampung punks, jobless graduates to plant more ketum leaves.
so compare to honda…
CPS is equivalent to VTEC?
VIM is equivalent to honda’s ????
or honda vtec car no VIM?
Excellent!!!
Hope this new IAFM will give a ‘good’ improvement
to the Campro engine in performance. Can’t wait
to have a track experience on it, technically.
Agreed with darren82my, Proton technological advancement is move at snail pace!
So folks, will everyone wait for the thing to be installed into the production line. Everyone don’t buy Proton yet? In terms of HP, is there any increment?
Is there a retrofit option? Those who already purchase protons campro vehicles will be pissed, won’t they? Well those who care..
when when ?
Tunggu, tunggu, …………………. lah! Sabar sikit
tanasi said,
November 14, 2007 @ 8:51 am
Big Fish, maybe you should join Proton. I am sure your experience as a big fish and years of years of armchair expertise will be very valuable in speeding things up in Proton, since they are, as you know, being run by little fish who don’t know peanuts from bolts and nuts. Need an application form?
—————-
Application to open restaurant for armchair talk OK lah
its a good move 2 me.. better late than nvr..
wit enhanced tech, i think it wil b easier for proton 2 position their cars too.. like for entry level budget 1.3 BLM tat comes w/out VIM, CPS etc.. perhaps top of d range BLM r3 wit VIM CPS.. neo r3 wit VIM n twin/tri-stage CPS? then waja wil share d same powerplant as neo r3.. hehe.. not really familiar wit them tho.. d point is d gap between categories wil b more obvious..
besides, hope dis thing doesnt only work nicely on paper.. hope it delivers on d road as well as new proton really nice chassis tho.. better performance wil match wit it nicely i feel..
goodluck! n dun let us wait too long..
vim, variable intake, intake resonance, are not actually something to be prefixed at the reat bonnet, even vvt not to be badged, for some makes,
but nothing is wrong there,
vim or simmilar tech are used by honda, volvo, alfa, porsche, as well,
only if some of the engine like some bmw or honda,
like valvetronic or honda A vtech , or i vtech E or 3 stage vtech, doesnt need it, as long as the 16valve engine can actively optimising intake by any kind of actuator like having a very low lift at lower end (a vtech or valvetronic equevalent), or capable to disable one of two intake valve like in 3 staged v tech, the variable intake not needed,
if a normal v tech or non variable 16valve engine, variable intake is very useful in trimming a batter lower end,
anyway this simple tech is good for who likes short shifting economical drive,
no matter how good the engine is, car enthusiasts will change the engine anyway…. mitsubishi engine la… daihatsu engine la… do u see anyone driving toyota or nissan with a proton engine? hee!
Nice progress i think….just wanna say something about someone that feel engineering is a easy thing to do..just have to take 2-3 month and u get new tech.Malaysia now is still young in engineering…there is a shortage of engineer everywhere..more critically on automotive engineering…plzz research how many universities offering automotives engineering at malaysia if u dont believe me. To make a new tech is not like eat a peanut or wutever u wanna to describe it…new tech need 5-10 years of RND even reverse engineering process like VIM mention above need years to make it perfect…more worst our country is shortage of experience engineer especially in automotive.Other motor co have thousand of engineer in their rnd department.that why u see them progress quickly then us…but i believe this will be solve for about 5-10 years more from what i can see…so as a conclusion it was a 3rd world mind of thinking if you said engineering is an easy thing like eating peanut.
Today cartoon are not drawn in paper anymore, because there are a thing called Software! With so many computer aided software today, from designing, engineering, tooling design, simulation to manufacturing, i think it took Proton too long…
Car are just merely a product of mechanical + electronic.
All these can be easily simulated before start initial testing(save time and cost).
And these software has high accuracy until even Medical industries are utilizing them. And what its the difficulties for few micron accuracy(tolerance) when medical industry already fully mapped human DNA. Even a little net company can mapped almost the whole earth with satellite and offered it free for all, Google Earth.
In 80’s, a car will took about 5 years to R&D till launch but todate, 2007, only 16 months are required for normal car(low-mid segment). Because of Information technology, we step forward quicker than before. In 1980’s, a CPU clocked at 4.77Mhz, todate 3.2Ghz(thats 3200Mhz) basic till topend quadcore(four cpu in one). The advancement are so quantum and limitted not at clock speed only, its overall processing power had increase tremendously with early Math-co processor, MMX, SSE3 till quadcore.
I would guess the main issue with Bosch and Proton are “pricing” !
i agree with transformer..but how good the software and computer..it still need real test in real working condition.if vim good in computer simulation,not mean that when it will also good in real world.so real test still important to make sure that thing dont have any problem after it was use for long time..
@chap_de_x
Yes, engineering is not easy, but this isn’t exactly new tech.
Why does proton want to re-invent the wheel when the technical knowhow is already available? They are working with Bosch right? And you think those german blokes dont know engineering?
In engineering nowadays you have computers. A little hint, they do simulations real fast. I know fellow ex-classmates that write their own powertrain management software, MAF/MAP translators, remap thier own stock ECU’s fuel, timing, ignition maps, and even build Solar racecars (Even I am involved in a bit of that, and I’m no engineer).
I don’t know how far off the local Uni grads are off, but it can’t be that bad…..can it? This is assuming that Proton only hire local grades……
Seriously how difficult can it be to just tell the solenoid/stepper motor just how many degrees to open based/corresponding to your load/rpm tables? Any student with a fair grasp of fluid dynamics with the proper software can simulate what is the best shape/size of your manifold runners. Besides most VIM systems only have a vacumm operated soleniod/valve – open or close. Thats it.
I’m with Transformer. It not technology that Proton is getting snagged at. Its the “other” factors. Perhaps vendors? …just a guess….
yup i agree with u 4G63T DSM….simulation can do many things…i also use simulation on my study…but simulation have their own weakness which is without input how the output can come out in those simulation…and that is engineer job…without proper knowledge and experience, how the input can be inserted…yup those german know engineering…but every knowledge come with price and those were not cheap…this is what p1 dont have very much…so what solution that we have…local talent right… and this take time…maybe VIM is old tech, and p1 is deliver it so late…but if very detail RND is in progress(CPS and VIM) i think its worth to wait for the sake of knowledge we can get from those old tech…for further future improvement… so we just not have to copy and paste again.
I hope we can see this new Intake Air Fuel Module will be used on new
1.3L BLM or the Persona, at least it wil some helps the low to mid torque, which is biggest problem of campro engine. Just saw the new info about the new Hyundai Theta engine, I do agree proton should implement this IAFM asap, they are slow and waste too much time on R&D, time is money…
If dah test benda tu, how about posting some figures
simple only! no need engineering explanation….
no testing very fast.=aiya!!! apala proton bikin product takda testing..pikir untung saja….sini rosak sana rosak…tiap2 minggu mau pergi service center!
careful long time testing = aiya !!! why so long to put that technology ha….that technology existed ages ago!!! apa la proton lembab mcm kura2
I am fed up with unconstructive talk…..
Walaupun Gen.2 Campro engine testing banyak, saya nampak ada yang rosak di tepi jalan jugak…
Mercedes pun rosak tepi jalan ma……
littlefire, you just have to stop making comments like this la.
“Walaupun Gen.2 Campro engine testing banyak, saya nampak ada yang rosak di tepi jalan jugak…”
if what you say is true, does that mean mercedes, or bmw or toyota who spends probably 5-10 times more money on development and testing of engines than proton, will never suffer a breakdown?
Mr benjo…agree wif u..its hard to satisfy us malaysian..
Littlefire..i just saw a japs car stalled in the mid of the road on my way to work this morning..
4G63T DSM…we must remember that we have intelectual rights that we need to consider..we wouldnt want proton to be sued by some german autoco like our chinese counterparts right???that would be a bigger disgrace for the country..talk about software..the price itself is an issue including licenses etc..and the price is not the same as the one sold in low yat…maybe thats why proton is doing collabs with other comp since it will reduce costs and also time..imagine if we are to develop all the softwares,testings etc from ground up all by ourselves, how much time will it take??…
Transformer..i disagree with u saying ” Car are just MERELY a product of mechanical + electronic”…if theres a rumbling sound in our car’s hood..is it possible for us to pinpoint exactly where the root cause is at?its a COMPLEX product of mechanical + electronics to be exact…and its not as simple as we think it is..
20 YEARs old merc rosak at highway, is normal
20 DAYs old Gen2 rosak at highway, is also normal
In short, Proton is in need of new technology. Desperate case or dying state, the technology above is a PLUS point !
can it be fitted onto current campro engine based cars??hope proton will replace the old model campros
Yang cakap banyak .. If you’re really so talented, please go help Proton.
Typing and talk big, it’s so easy.
I just saw a new Vios being towed few days ago….repossessed by finance?..I don’t think so because it’s brand new…breakdown? Cannot be,It’s a brand new Toyota….accident? Don’t think so…hey maybe the owner is doing it for fun…(positive thinking)…..
@yippi33
Obviously, I’m not suggesting Proton copies other people’s technology (don’t see how you managed that conclusion from my comments).
In these sort of cut throat world, do you seriously think any company just discovers new technology? You Sir, simply do not have the time.
Quite far from that, most buy it, license it. Even the big manufacturers. Maybe Proton’s insistance to do it on thier own has more to do with pride than anything, and you know what they say about pride….
2 years to come out with a VIM system, it takes less time for the big players to develop a whole new car/platform.
Seriously, this isn’t even about national pride….what happened to the rather impressive engine (on paper at least) of Petronas’ E01? Why not use in a local car? Selling the licensing rights to the Chinese? That was nearly 10 (TEN!!) years ago when they first fired up the engine. And proton is still struggling with VIM, let alone CPS?
Bear with me on this, if you are the big boss of your own company and your technical R&D is waaaaaay behind the rest, would you not think twice to get better engineers? especially if its your money…. no wait. Wrong notion…ahh..thats why….not thier own money…….riiight….
Have you all read in newspaper (metro) on last Saturday. One mercedes just bought for three months burned during driving..
4G63T DSM, sarcasm becomes you. Kesian all those Proton techies and engineers reading this forum, cowering away. Everyone is either sarcastic or just coming back with Proton bashing again, which is no longer the trend here.
We know they’re reading this, so everyone come up with ide bernas je. Bear in mind, E01 is developed with F1 tech – read expensive. Put it in a Proton, where to sell? Folks at Top Gear said we’re a car manufacturer working in a clearing in the jungle.
We need to get the message clear – Proton must keep up with the flow. Old tech not used yet in Protons, just replicate. Put R&D for new tech, the cutting edge stuff. Dont worry about cars breaking down. Alfas do it ALL THE TIME.
very good mukhri …even ferrari is not reliable as everyday car even thought it cost millions…italians very famous for their unreliability ….that petronas engine is high cost product…u want the perdana cost 200k ker….and i dont think people at proton are stupid….because they dont just have spm ok many of them studying overseas……so dont act like u r better in engineering than them
slow, but at least in the right direction…
That’s the best quote of the day.
no doubt proton will be cps-ed
wait
Ok guys but just a “quick†(or so to speak) comment here on those who love to diss on P1 harshly and all. But let me just tell you, those comments have no effect on p1 whatsoever. Let’s just go through all your comments, some of you hate on the products, quality and even the local hiring of engineers. I don’t want to say that any of those are right or wrong but if you look at things from a broader perspective rather than a one-sided point of view and hearsay or peer pressure or whatever, think about it this way, ‘hey at least their trying to survive in this harsh market environment by bringing something’, do not get me wrong, yes I do believe that it is rather slow coming out with all these technologies and all but have you ever thought of other variables that are obstructing the way of the company? For a company that has stopped buying engines from other companies because they want to reduce the cost for citizens of Malaysia to buy affordable cars with mid-range expectation engines I think should be decent enough to accept. And some of you also blame proton because of the high tax rates imposed to foreign cars. Well think about it for awhile, if the G had not done that before hand, do you think Proton’s sales would have been able to cope with such an aggressive market till today? Let’s say we had no high tax rates for foreign cars at all and let’s say the price of a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord is equivalent to the price of a Gen-2. Which would you choose? My fellow forumers, there is no arguing with the fact that car taxes are high in Malaysia whether you like it or not, but complaining against proton would not help you, the company or the G. Unless one of us, or probably anyone out there in Malaysia is able to reform the G laws, remove the taxes and let the foreign automobile market flow into Malaysia leaving proton to dissolve immediately. But for the moment we’re still under heavy taxing no matter what anyone says, technology is slow but so what? Its old but so what? Are you going to buy a Proton car in the end after hearing all kinds of rumours and bad news about the company, wouldn’t you rather go for a Perodua? Isn’t having something better than having nothing at all? We can’t argue with the fact that many of us here want better cars, to suit our ever-increasing wants, but if there is no constructive reasoning or major action to bring the company down why bother smashing it with critical comments that serve no suggestive aid at all? Anyway don’t get me wrong but I’m no supporter of any car company because to me, it is the appeal that the final product brings itself and not because of what the company has done. Anyway hope Proton comes out with the CPS soon!
Jom bash proton :
My makcik new personak defect :
1- Alarm on whenever it like. stuuuupiddd…..
2-Rear right door lock cant unlock. stuupiiddd…..
This happen just 2 days of after take new car from showroom….
Proton..listen here dude: STOP MAKING CAR !!! go open sardine factory je.
Then malaysian have sardine what so called engineer,tech,QC,hahaaa.
Thank you,paul.
2st dik how old are you?
i got question for u,
the vw beetle 1969 rear wheel centre hub lock nut, to unscrew it, is it to turn it clock wise or anti clock wise,?
2ST..aiya..just go to proton center..tell the problem and ask them to replace the defect part..new car ma..that why they give warranty..
sudah lama dengar!!!!dengar tangga berbunyi tetapi tiada org turun!!!Since G2 launched……better take volks R32 Engine and put in their persona….
neoracing87 said,
November 15, 2007 @ 6:29 pm
For a company that has stopped buying engines from other companies because they want to reduce the cost for citizens of Malaysia to buy affordable cars with mid-range expectation engines I think should be decent enough to accept
——
How about Savvy and Perdana?
Damn blind defender on protonomic ……..
2ST, true or not, do your MAKCIK know how to handle alarm and door lock? He, he, he, ……….
proton GL said,
November 15, 2007 @ 7:52 pm
2st dik how old are you?
i got question for u,
the vw beetle 1969 rear wheel centre hub lock nut, to unscrew it, is it to turn it clock wise or anti clock wise,?
———–
Aiyo, I as uncle also can’t answer.
2ST, sorry to ask you, how old is your makcik?, not nice to say stupid here…didn’t you know that if you have problems with proton,it’s actually given as standard features…try this, if you’re late for appointments,just say your proton brokedown,sure they’ll believe you…got it?
Hey BigFish,
thanks for pointing that out but sorry to tell you, the blind one here is not me but you, what i suggest you do is scroll all the way back up to the beginning of this page and read what the topic is about and scroll back down here and read that sentence again and apply it to your very basic understanding of things, my blind friend, or perhaps you would like me to highlight the topic for you? but i’m sure you can comprehend enough to do that on your own i believe?
Obviously you have nothing else to argue on but the errors of my english which i believe is a hundred times much more complete than yours. Because let me tell you, from my observation yours isn’t anywhere near perfect either, In fact its far from even acceptable.
So i suggest you drop the ad hominem, grow up and accept the fact that you throw around blind accusations without understanding the context of an issue. because honestly, you’re making a damn big fool of yourself, please… stop embarrassing me with your childish sense of what an argument is, it only brings shame to what others see of your mentality by making irrelevant fallacies.
the world would do better with smarter people, unlike yourself
last comment on this issue, so no point to retaliate even if you cry about it. sorry my blind friend, go get a diploma on critical reasoning, because you are in desperate need for it.
Just hope they can implement the Intake Air Fuel Module on the coming models asap, it will help the torque of current campro engine, which is is biggest problem of campro engine. Btw, I don’t like duty tax either, RM40k for a car still expensive if compare the salary in malaysia, I just hope they can provide the better quality car, better engine, and better service with much much lower price…
Perdana is an old model waiting to be phased out la bigfish
savvy uses renault engine because campro cannot be fit into the savvy
they still dont have smaller engine….aiya bigfish sudah lama sini tada belajar2 ka….
neoracing87
Neither me comment on your English nor saying that what I mentioned is related to the topic. What I highlighted was I disagreed with your general statement that Prootn make their own engine will make their car more affordable to buyers.
Do you think the local engine with old tech and don’t reach economy of scale will reduce the overall cost of the car? Do your math and economic reasoning again! How about the “extra” maintenance and fuel?
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MisterBenjo
I know exactly what you said, the only thing I want to highlighted was to debunk neoracing 87 statement about local engine to make the car more affordable to buyers!
The Campro itself is mooted what back to earlier 2000s, Prootn shall come out with more new engine with latest tech to meet market expectation rather than “talk-this-improvement-talk-that-improvement on small component” that to other car manufacturer, already use it for 2 or 3 generation in their car.
@mukhri88
Fair enough, if you think my comments are sarcastic, so be it. But read carefully, there is the difference between a critique and a blind bash. Please dont be like some of the Proton supporters here, which views every negative comment as a bash.
I’m merely stating the fact that in this day and age, if you progress too slowly, you are going to get smootherd, especially if Proton wants to have an inkling of hope to make it out in the big world when the barriers are lifted.
Companies buy technology from each other all the time. No need to reinvent the wheel. If you are big like Toyota with its almost unlimited R&D budget, fair enough, go ahead and try to reinvent the wheel, but what matters in a small manufacturer is to get products out quick, get a foothold. Perhaps Proton thinks they are big in Malaysia and need to do things differently, but in the global scale, they are just babies. They DO NOT have the economies of scare to warrant time and finances lost on R&D.
Those that said the E01 is expensive, how do you know? Its not even a production spec engine. Once the engine goes into volumm production, the cost per unit goes down. The E01 would have cost Petronas millions to develop, of course if you only made 5 units the cost will be high.
Besides, the E01 is quite far from being an F1 engine (lol to those that think so)…its just an engineering study based on technology learnt from F1. If you look at what it is, its not much different than that of a Honda VTEC (which incidentally, is also “based” on F1 technology)….. “F1” is just marketing speak for the gullible. Plenty of things on our current cars are based on Motorsports grounds (F1 or not). Traction control, Stability control, ABS, AWD, fuel injection, turbocharging (first used on aircraft engines)…
I suspect the lowend torque hole with the Campro is due to it being an “unfinished” product. CPS and VIM is supposed to boost up the lower powerband. However, that not being ready and Proton needed an engine, the Campro was probably rushed into production status.
Of course Proton could re-tune the ignition and change the cams for low rpm performance, but that would sacrifice your peak hp. Knowing how most buyers perceive power output, it must be seen as a negative by proton marketing. Fact it, they could have fixed the torque hole, and increase drivability and fuel economy but chose not to.
not pening2 laa…bila dah kuar nanti try laa..tak suka jgn beli…suka pakai…ok ker?
yippi33 said,
November 15, 2007 @ 12:03 pm
Transformer..i disagree with u saying †Car are just MERELY a product of mechanical + electronicâ€â€¦if theres a rumbling sound in our car’s hood..is it possible for us to pinpoint exactly where the root cause is at?its a COMPLEX product of mechanical + electronics to be exact…and its not as simple as we think it is..
Don’t kid me its “that” complex!
Engine making its still meassured in mm and not even micron or nano!
How complex will a Campro be if compare with an old GA16DE(>10years in Sentra) ?
Todate it takes 1.5years to Develope till Launch NEW CAR!!
WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD!
4G63T, you’re merely reflecting my point of view. As for ur sarcasm, I meant it in a good way. Proton execs reading this whole discussion will be rethinking their strategies and not waste money (who’s money is it again?) and time. I even suspect the marketing research folks are taking notes (IF they even conduct market research).
Can’t you see, the E01 issue is my form of sarcasm towards Proton. Your reply is exactly what the Proton execs are thinking(reverse psychology la konon), and probably they will consider Petronas’s offer. If that happens, we’ll remember this discussion as the turning point. And yes, I’m bashing the bashers, and true, negative remarks are good too. See, most of us here are on the same track, except for the bashers and dudes like jeriey who’s not interested in discussing anything.
I see some extremely bright people here, some technical side , others business, some even both, which is rare, the place you work for is very lucky.
yippi33 said,
November 14, 2007 @ 10:13 am
its funny how some malaysians mindset is always negative in everything that come out from their own yard even if it is a good one..its like its permanently programmed in their brain..if you have an engineering background maybe you’ll know how difficult a particular technology can be realised on our own.its not as simple as copy and paste in your Paint..
–hahaha, might be negative mindset. but then is not really permanently programmed dude.. look at the outside world and the advancement of nowadays technologies. moreover human improvement and move forward very fast. if we can’t catch up, consider left out. don’t u agreed? for examples, last two years we buy vcd, then dvd 5, dvd 9 and later dvd with divX. i hope proton better speed things up for production in order not to be much far behind. hahaha.
chap_de_x said,
November 14, 2007 @ 8:57 pm
hahaha, shortage of automotive engineers in malaysia? hahahahaha, some of my friends studied it and can’t get job overhere, have no choice but to change the profession to do sales. some hv to work in overseas too. i guess there employed wrong professionals. don’t believe? go and check out. hahaha.
Everybody’s worried, local automotive industry not progressing as quickly as other industries. Relax, tak apa.. 13 years to go. Once we reach developed country status, then la we produce machines with developed country quality. For now, we make cars with developing country quality la. Proton execs angry oredi or not?
To design a new system in the powertrain, it is not as simple as “pokokceri” workshop stuff. Yes im sure the proton guys can program an ecu for high performance in a day, but for production, you need to design it to conform with european ECE regulations regarding emissions (heard the Euro2,3,4 regulations?). You must also design it to have an acceptable fuel efficiancy. Then you must make sure that it works the same in every region of the world, weather it is tropical, desert or icy cold. All of those need to be tested in real world conditions. The system must also be tested so that it is reliable to last to a set standards. for intake manifolds it should last as long as the car. You have to design it to a price, and you must design it so that it is easy for the production to install it in the production line. that all takes time and experience.
As for automotive engineers, i know alot of so called automotive graduates are good only on paper and doesnt know even a simple function of the engine like how does the engine starter functions. in automotive you need passionate people to get the best results.
So to all fellow paultan readers, i can assure you, automotive R&D is not as simple as you think it is.
By the way, i dont work for proton, and has never worked there before. But i know what they have gone through in developing cars and engines…
tec96248
hmmm in how many of your friend dont get engineering job 10, 100. is it because of no work for them as engineer or no body want them because they only good on their paper but practically they r zero…dont even want to touch any lubricant oil…only want to work at office and ask high starting salary…i talking about fact…and u should research first b4 u talking about only what u saw & heard…go to human resource ministry web page…and learn about how many engineer shortage and future demand towards engineer profession at malaysia then if u still wanna laugh at me i can accept it. at this particular time i am laughing at your statement…so 3rd world class minded
Transformer said..
Engine making its still meassured in mm and not even micron or nano!
Yes engine DIMENSIONS are measured in mm but whats the units for air intake flows, valve lift time, torque, exhaust temperature, air to fuel ratio to name a few???well be seeing more than just the letter M in mm…
yippi33, if Proton still selling Iswara milo tin on the road for the last 22 years++, it is better for them to venture into other biz.
chap_de_x said,
November 16, 2007 @ 2:58 pm
hahaha, yes indeed i m laughing. i m just mentioning they r some only. hmm…u mentioned shortage of engineers, so shouldn’t be no work for them as engineer. how can u said that nobody want them, meaning all fresh graduate can’t get jobs because mostly they don’t hv practicals. something not right.?? where do u learn that engineering must hv to touch lubricant oils? i see ur information was from webpage. no wonder ur replied was so ignorant. ur fact is lousy. hmm……engineering and transportation is part of my bread and butter, previously was in automotives and manufacturing, i also wanted to know where to get clean engineering jobs. care to let me know? by the way, r u an engineer? hahaha, i m laughing at u indeed. don’t worry, u r no better than 3rd world, because u and me r in malaysia. hahahaha.
i read before in berita harian, proton will come out the mpv segment in 2009
tec96248..
is there any problem my facts is from web pages even its from relevant web pages…lousy fact from a government pages huh…very good fact from…if those is not enough fact for you…try read some info at BEM & IEM pages…plus journal at any web page about future trend in engineering profession…that one also will be consider lousy fact huh…engineer or no engineer am i, but u as an engineer should learn how to respect other people opinion on this great blog and if u dont agree with others opinion dont start your comment on others with “hahaha”. learn some ethics and manners even you r so good in wutever u r doing …may b i am no engineer yet but i think i have enough knowledge and experience to give some opinion on this topic…peace
Just shut up! If u r an Proton engineer working in R&D like now, i bet not enough one year work with Japanese automotive u r fired… Why? Coz the competitive is strong there! And time is real money! This is about efficiency, better technology and not a totally new invention! Just face the fact this technology is used for a long time in this automobile industry! U already have a basic Campro, u just add it in the manifold n test it! Even u use trial & error u also no need 2 year to finish right?!? Even the direct injection Campro invented by some UKM lecturer + students also no need 1 year to finish!
http://www.ukm.my/english/News/berita_enjin.html
“A total of two CNGDI engines have been assembled in September 2006 for further testing and installed in the car. As a result, two cars using the CNGDI engine prototypes have been successfully produced.”
By 2007 they already win gold medal in ITEX 2006 in Kuala Lumpur as well as gold medal and special award for new invention technology in Eureka 2006 in Brussels. As for the CNGDI engine itself, it has won gold medal in ITEX 2007 in Kuala Lumpur.
Even UKM student + lecturer can finish a Direct injection car by less then a year and win so many awards. But why a simple technology like VIM need take more then 2 years to implement? Funny izzit? With such a large investment by Proton i dont think they should be worse then the UKM people right? Just think about it…
U got a point LittleFire85, even Toyota need less than 2 years to design new car from the scratch!
er BigFish, show me example Toyota’s “less than 2 years to design new car from the scratch”, they share platform with previous gen toyotas’, dont give us comment like that like u worship toyota. get your facts right or else SCRATCH my ass! even their engine nt developed in 2 yrs! scratch? u r really big water fish
chap_de_x said,
November 16, 2007 @ 11:28 pm
IEM or BEM? what about others? facts, updated or not? doesn’t matter anyway. talking about ethics, manners and respecting others especially for an engineer? respecting others supposely for all, not just specially for an engineer, dude. u didn’t learn it in school? using ‘hahaha’ consider good enough on u. infact u don’t deserve it or being respected from others. because u might not an engineer yet already started insulting others with ‘ 3rd world minded’. so inmature, my goodness. ask urself why not others but u!
4G63T DSM said,
Honda VTEC (which incidentally, is also “based†on F1 technology)…
VTEC is actualy superbike powertrain tech, no connections with F1 whatsoever.
if you ever see some of the hondas late 80s (recon) and early90s, pgmf1 is popular in honda, said to be an f1 derived engine ignition magement system,
LittleFire85 & BigFish really love ‘talking’ bout cars
i just buy a proton pesona last year but only used 1 month the AIFM had problem and proton servis centre had changed it with taken more than 1 month. they also said many owner had claim about it.
my friend also buy new proton pesona SE last 2 months but the AIFM that also had proton. Why that AIFM alway breakdown? Every car or part must pass the QA/QC, it is the QA/QC not do their job? or AIFM had used by proton is not quality?
In case anyone wondered in MY (or Proton City) if the fitting of IAFM would really make any difference to Proton's sales, I can confirm it did in my case and my new IAFM-equipped Persona auto will be arriving next month.
I live in the UK and the fact that Proton has finaly fixed the low-end torque problem of the Campro engine helped seal them a sale away from Renault.
Although not perfect, I feel that Proton has at last fixed enough of the issues of the GEN-2 and the car, (at least the Persona) is now properly 'finished' and I expect many years of good service from my new car without any major trouble.
This will be my first Proton after owning many other European/Asian makes of car, so it will be interesting to see how it performs.