I’m sure many of you who have been following the whole Proton-Volkwagen strategic tie-up soap opera are wondering, “What’s with the rather unexpected end result?”.
After all, it was only slightly more than a week ago that two financial papers reported of an imminent positive end result within a matter of weeks. All of a sudden, this bombshell, and naturally people are starting to believe the whole show was in fact an act, or a game even, to manipulate Proton share prices for the benefit of those with insider information.
In reality, things were actually looking positive – although nothing was confirmed – until last Friday or so. Sources reveal a meeting was held – one of the few final ones before the whole deal was to have been given the solid green light — so all parties involved could look at the big picture.
But sometime before this meeting, Proton’s management had a meeting with the government to appeal against this strategic alliance plan. Proton presented a road map of current achievements and future goals.
Somehow they managed to convince the government not to go ahead with the agreement, and to give them a second chance to turn around Proton, which they believed was already on the verge of a turn-around because of recent achievements such as the Proton Persona and export deals with China and Iran. The China deal was especially sweet: 30,000 completely built up Proton GEN2s in a rebadging deal with 80,000 to be assembled there by 2012 – a deal worth RM4 billion.
Convincing the government was not that difficult a thing to do considering they were not completely happy with the terms that Volkswagen had put down on the table in the first place. The people on the street — including you and me — will never know what exactly was in these terms and conditions – all we know are little bits and pieces regarding the formation of a new company that is majority held and controlled by Volkswagen and have core Proton businesses injected into it.
The terms and conditions apparently were completely skewed towards Volkswagen’s benefit and we really cannot blame them as Proton in its current state really doesn’t have much to offer other than a plant in which to build Volkswagen cars in and a few car platforms. Its dealer network is not one of the best around — too many dealers and the salesmen do not actually know how to sell cars. It would also be interesting to find out why some engineering consultancy jobs are given to LG CNS instead of Lotus Engineering. [Source]
So it was decided that Proton could still hold on and fight for the moment and any strategic tie-up should only happen when Proton is in a stronger position to negotiate. In its current weak position, anything that happens with a foreign partner would be more of a foreign takeover rather than a mutually beneficial strategic tie-up. Proton has presented a roadmap to the government on how it plans to achieve that stronger position, and they have been given strict performance targets according to the road map. If Proton succeeds, good – if not, the whole soap opera will likely start again. This is a second chance of sorts given to Proton by its majority stakeholder as per request from Proton’s management themselves.
We should give them the benefit of the doubt for the moment, considering we can now see a genuine desire to improve and positive results have come out of this desire. Proton has to improve the competitiveness of Proton cars in the international market – it cannot sell cars based on pure cheaper pricing without any other advantages forever. The Koreans are also starting to raise their prices, and Hyundai has even started to move upmarket with the RWD V8 Hyundai Genesis. This requires Proton cars to be up to date with the rest of the world in terms of technology and quality.
We are still making what are considered to be barebones plain vanilla cars. Building modern cars requires R&D. R&D requires money. Money requires more profit per car, and that is achieved with better economies of scale which reduces cost of making the car. Economies of scale requires more sales, which is one of the reasons why a tie-up with a foreign partner was seen as necessary — for reasons like sharing of key parts which improves economies of scale.
For now the decision has been made, and those who are crying over their shattered dreams of cheap Proton-badged Golfs to drive cannot really do anything about it. The next thing to look forward to from Proton is the new BLM in 2008 which is the long awaited new Proton Saga, an improved Campro engine with variable intake and CPS cam profiling, and a people carrier model expected in 2009.
After dabbling for years in the IT industry, Paul Tan initially began this site as a general blog covering various topics of personal interest. With an increasing number of readers paying rapt attention to the motoring stories, one thing led to another and the rest, as they say, is history. An avid electronic gadget aficionado as well as big-time coffee lover, he's also the executive producer of the Driven motoring TV programme.
Hmm…
Proton better proves it right this time…
bring out the cps + vim in the next model.. (come on, we know you’ve completed it…can’t wait any longer maa..)
People need more options in various segments..with right pricing and better quality..that’s it!
now paul is talking,
well i do have that feeling too,
I am getting the feeling of the Protection in NAP will be longer and longer be in the hands of the G and the cronies… I think they will delay the open market by 2010? Since they already mention they still time to turn around by 2009… Even they came of VIM+CPS, how about other manufacturer technology? I think honda will come out A-Vtec, Toyota Dual VVT-i wif Direct Injection or the valvematic engine and others… Even proton don’t have a basic turbo diesel engine to invate the Europe… Please remember, without protection do u think ur Persona will sell?
If Proton get screw again next time, i think we will see the big news in new’s paper that RM1 selling! Lelong Lelong…
Oh.. another thing want to remember that the fuel price is reaching US$99 a barrel today.. Hopefully Proton new engine can coupe wif the new high sky price petrol… Good luck!
while i understand the reasoning, i still believe that we should not severe all means of negotiations just yet. we got be honest to ourselves, we are waaayyy behind on technology part.. investing money in RND just may be too costly, too time consuming.. and i hate to admit it, we’re not to that level just yet.. or ever, without external help.
i applaud their optimism, while i do believe proton shall do well within this decade. i cant really say this latest develoment is wise for Proton’s long-term goals and survival.. i seriously doubt it, i foresee another soap opera in the making
Does anybody or anyone inside PROTON learned ANYTHING for the past 20 years( or more )…? For me,successful carmakers are the ones that KNOW what the people wants,not what the makers want!!!! Must know when to come out with a variety of new models,not “re-issue” old models by so called “offers”……
Hopefully….PROTON must “get it ” right this time…Produce more varieties,Full power ahead with R&D.Then at last many Malaysians will proudly admit themselves to be “PROTONIANS”….see?…Simple…( i think…)
Btw…does PROTON ever considered coming out with Diesel engines…? Since our govt is so “hot” talking abt Bio-Diesels…It will be very much welcomed if PROTON can accept the challenge to produce green diesel engines..say,..1500c.c to 2500c.c…?
Thank god! What a relief
Go Proton Go !!
Like the french car makers comes to realise, they need to make cars that people want, and not shoving it down the consumers’ throat due to a lack of alternatives.
This time around, the Pesona model hit pay dirt for proton as it was competitively priced, and positioned at the family segment, which is currently make up the biggest portion of msian. But nevertheless, the issue of quality still lingers on for the man in the street, as quality is not something that could be advertised and shout about, but gained only thru years of experiencing good quality.
Lets hope proton will be more sensible now, and start looking for more viable and credible partners and vendors, and to discard the blood sucking vendors. Otherwise, this good performance would only be a mirage on a hot sunny msian weather.
Paul’s points are read and taken seriously. 2008 is right around the corner and 2009 is not not far from it. 3 years is the time limit or does our beloved G going to extend AFTA for another term? Who knows! For God sake, leave P1 alone. I’m not really convinced by the sayings in turning around P1, inflation is climbing and more to come, one would ponder the management (or some rather to name it as cronies) must be in desperate to squeeze the every possible nickle from every patriotic Malaysian. In order to protect the interest of minority priviledged (you know how I’m referring to), we are sacrificing the wealth of majority to cater for their needs. I’m sorry, am I using too strong words here? Do we really need “to-be-proud-of-national-car” or rather we are in desperate need of more FDI and reducing deficit or having increasing deficit budget? More fundamental problems and issues are not addressed, instead we spend RM0.1 billion to send a fella to outer space. At the end, 23 million of us get what? Malaysia Boleh, he? Something is very wrong with us, either it is us or the administration. To view P1 positively, one would be required to trust the P1 blindly and hope for miracle instead. Again, commercial not being done commercially is destined failure, where it comes with great price and in due course. One point I wish to emphasize, By 2010 or so, when Malaysia turns from net oil exporter to importer, does anyone here care to comment? Paul? P1, please spare my life.
Why not make a deal or tie-up with local auto conglomerates to form a dedicated R&D company and develop some common platforms for future cars. In this way money will not be a big issue. By than, apart from Proton, we will be able to see varieties of real Malaysian cars made by Malaysian companies, and not just rebadged foreign makes.
I got an idea, y don’t Proton make mass-produced stock NGVs, and Petronas put NGV refilling stations nationwide. There’s practically no downside to the plan..lol…sometimes I think I should run the country..AHAHAH!!
gov is making decisions for Proton,..weird..what do they know about car technology….
at lease no more talk…..
Brave decision. All the best ..
Today Proton SHARE PRICE DROP 19% !!!
I dont think this is overselling, this is price correction….further correction to the downside is possible….
my last time post
After VW and Proton signed the paper, are there will be more VW cars on the road with cheaper price or more proton car with better quality?
when the story come to this moment…perhaps no more cheaper VW cars in malaysia (unless VW set up their assembly plant in bolehland) and poorer quality P cars continue on the road….sigh!!! but maybe it is good for Proton.
Proton still can decide what they want to do, not being controlled by VW, continue come out with “truely” proton car – to prevent to lost their identity.
proton go to hell
Volkswagen, the biggest European carmaker, is looking for a new Asian partner and is focusing on Indonesia and Thailand after talks with the Malaysian group Proton broke down, a press report said on Wednesday.
November 21, 2007, 6.17 pm (Singapore time)
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/latest/story/0,4574,257487,00.html?
Congratz to our G on the Protection, another big company will go to our neighbor country to built or share factory wif others and help them gain more economy… Newer think of this country future…
Good luck!!
Its not so much on whether there will be cheaper Vws on the msian road or not.
Its abt injection of much needed fund into the country, and the G capitalising on taxes that it will gain from the huge volume of cars to be exported each month. VW is serious in making a foothole in SEA, as it see a vast potential of market for its cars in this region.
Perhaps it may be beneficial too to Proton as it could also tag along with VW cars to enter new markets in the SEA.
Whether its significant or not, the technology injection into Proton could jump
start Proton’s technology know-how in quantum leaps and bounds rather than snailing thru trial and errors with indefinite time frames, using repeated slogans to convince the rakyat that it will try better next time around.
Technology in building EU specced cars will open up market opportunities for Proton itself.
Having re-badged gen2 for china does not come as a free meal.
By allowing msian products into its country, china made products will also enjoy some privileges to come into the msian market. Perhaps some day, we will find Geely or FeiYang finally make a come back into the msian market..churning out al-cheapor cars that will further push proton to a tighter corner in terms of affordability,volume and perhaps quality.
Whatever it is now, lets hope Proton have some cards hidden in its sleeves that could be used to propel it forward or at least sustain its momentum for at least another 2-3 quarters to come.
why dont Proton collaborate with Petronas to develop car engine’s? E01e is a great 2L engine eventho it is a bit expensive, maybe they can use it as the high-line or sport version of Proton car like the GTI? and also they can develop diesel powered engine together.
i think Proton merely thought out new ways to bleed Malaysian’s money dry through more bail-outs.
Who cares if they have some sales here and there. It’s bleeding us dry. Either by us paying horendous price for any cars we buy (inc. Protons) or bail outs through our EPF money, by coming out with models after models of failure. Sure Persona looks good, but is it a good car? Now that we’re sure VW not coming in, sales will plummet.
JUST WATCH.
Good bye sweetheart….sayonara. See you in German in 5 year times from now…
#
ys said,
November 21, 2007 @ 6:50 pm
at least no more talk…..
**************************************************
Haha you’re damn right dude. It makes me feel better now.
Remember some days ago, it was raised in teh papers regarding concerns that some of the current P1 vendors could get the axe if VW venture went ahead. So, something had to be done to protect these crony vendors, else what would happen? Moreover, election is coming. If don’t take care of cronnies, could end up losing some votes!
Recent achievements such as the Proton Persona is because of our unfair duty structure. Our gov, please give proton a fair competition wif other car manufacturers.Let proton know how achievements they r….
in stead of become an alliance, and VW now turns up to be another competitor, can not imaging how proton wants to fight for international market?
when the gov, makes a decision, it ought to be done in the best interests of the people….sadly i dunt believe this decision is done in that spirit…
In the present context of skyhigh oil prices, carmakers that are going to make it to the next decade are going to require a quantum leap in technology to either build extremely fuel efficient cars or cars that run on alternative energy. Do we honestly think Proton is one company that can make this leap? Considering we have limited influx of foreign talent, virtually non-existent R&D culture in university or public sector, no meritocratic culture, and continued protection of crony interest, I would say the odds are very very bleak. Not just proton but any tech company in Msia.
For the gov to make a bet on behalf on the people:
1. on a company with limited technology capability
2. which is heavily dependent on its home market for profits and margins
3. against a backdrop of rising oil prices(where the rakyat should really be moving away from cars and more to public transport)
seems a very very poor bet almost a reckless one.
(Can people see the dilemma of points 2 and 3?)
i hav a feeling that in an indirect way..the G will Suport proton in their R&Ds from now on….probably the management convinved the G of their road map and new strategy provided the G wil absorb abit of their R&D Costs….bt its a brave move…if thy succeed thy be the one to folow,bt if thy fail…..all hel is gona break loose…..
e-nabilll said,
November 21, 2007 @ 8:19 pm
i hav a feeling that in an indirect way..the G will Suport proton in their R&Ds from now on…probably the management convinved the G of their road map and new strategy provided the G wil absorb abit of their R&D Costs
Damn it, our hard earned money will be used for this! Sigh~ consider doing charity will help us feel better, if this does happen, lets hope they’ll take this chance and really produce something instead of diverting money into their personal bank accounts
Campro technology is one thing. Direct injection and force induction technology that VAG has to offer can drastically improve our engine technology by producing smaller powerplants with higher specific power (BHP per liter) and better fuel consumption. They’re admittedly one of the best in these two technologies. Campro isn’t even there yet. There’s a lot to catch up on with these technologies as well. Honda and Toyota already hold patents to better variable valve phasing and lifting. We’re waay behind folks.. way behind..
National interest (and the ignorant government officials) can go kiss their stoinky behinds. They’re not serving the rakyats interest.
But sometime before this meeting, Proton’s management had a meeting with the government to appeal against this strategic alliance plan. Proton presented a road map of current achievements and future goals.
——————
What road map the management can show and in what way the G can understand it?
One thing very good and save some tax payer money is as what ys said –
at least no more talk…..
This goreng saham news will stop certain parties from making fast buck from this P1-VW talk sandiwara.
Look like the good effect of this decision is the talk show end, thus save tax payer monies to finance their talk show.
Good for Proton.
But seriously I dont see why Proton is so optimistic about its future. If they say the persona sales are good, it probably coming in the expense of the Gen2, Waja and Wira sales, which is not really gaining much market share. The myvi is still out selling the Persona by a fair margin….somethign like 2000 more per month.
For export markets, the only thing concrete is the Chinese deal, I dont think the iranian deal is firm as of yet. Only time will tell if Proton will succeed.
Of course the government will help proton. The GE being this near.
But probably the most sad part will be a loss of a chance to have technology transfer from a far more superior partner, positve FDI gains, and better cars fo everyone.
Nxt bit of news will be VW openign shop in Thailand. Good job Malaysian Gov.
ive realize malaysian prefer super mini car with alot head room and just nice leg fit, proton need to get on this, also proton need to make a rwd ,4wd car cause here alot drift fan who mostly cant afford that kind of car,finally proton need to join the show and game buisness.
malaysians are doomed to drive shit cars
4G63T DSM said,
November 21, 2007 @ 9:34 pm
Good for Proton.
But seriously I dont see why Proton is so optimistic about its future.
——————————————
What I can see is maybe after new Proton CEO replace form Mahalel. Possible?
x abis2…dok bising…
this particular article really disappoint.
“Somehow they managed to convince the government not to go ahead with the agreement, and to give them a second chance to turn around Proton”.
All the mgmt team could show is presentation slide with figures, bar and graph on all but FORECAST figures. bijak.. bijak… what solid basis that make their forecast figures near bullet-proof? upcoming BLM, MPV , not-so-new VIM, the never there yet CPS?
.. and effectively start the latest vicious cycle of car ownership nightmare for all Malaysian (not potong owners only) for at least 5 years until their plan clearly fail again.. then .. foreign partnership talk.. then G give another chance to the mgmt and so on and so forth.
even if potong managed to straight up.. by the time they did.. “Elvis had left the building” already..
anyway the engine vim in combination with cps makes a very good engine,
if we re talking valve throtteling , its rather sophisticated, while the above is good enough,
well.. next step is DI , and diesel/TD is actually in demand, for a more flexible market,
But Err… If Proton is so bulletproof, why he so takut kalah.. should open market de and fight like a man and not a chicken who want more protection… Haiz, really funny these days.. just becoz today is good doesn’t mean the next 5 years u will be good…
Anywayz good luck Proton coz Malaysian Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi on Wednesday rejected a bailout for carmaker Proton as its shares crashed 18.6 per cent after it ditched alliance talks with Germany’s Volkswagen.
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/latest/story/0,4574,257490,00.html?
Hope u can survive by what u did… Haiz… really hopeless now… Proton now share value at 4.02, CIMB analyze it will drop until 3.50 if without G help.. Hoho, i think this will be great to see Proton without G help if Pak Lah kept his words…
Personally I have given Proton many times the benefit of doubt, over the years I thought Proton could really compete and be independent in global as well as local automotive market. But I have been disappointed many times over. I say it’s personal because I drive a Proton. I say I’m disappointed because it has given me way too many problems that a car should give. And I’m angry because Proton creates an unfair competition in the domestic automotive market. Nothing ever turns out right from our supposed ‘pride of the nation’ carmaker. I think it has to grow out of the phase ‘National car’, because they’re taking things too spiritually rather than commercially.
I cant believe it!!
im ashamed to be malaysian because of proton
Hahaha. This is M Night Shyamalan stuff. Builds up on something then goes completely the other way.
So when we going to see cheaper car, how long we rakyat have to protect proton, after so many years, we were tired. Do you think if all malaysia cars are selling the price in Langkawi, do you think Persona will still the hot item anymore. Protec, protec, protec, so tired about it. Look at Thailand, how much FDI they have, how much FDI we have, they have already beat us, please open eye, we are too slow, our neighbors are moving too fast…
G has brought the Proton’s roadmap and future goals…that interesting .. with Proton partnership with China Youngman Automobile Group Ltd Co and this company announced a joint venture with ZAP (ZAP is developing a high-performance crossover SUV electric car concept called ZAP-X engineered by Lotus Engineering) lately.
Do we see Proton SUV developed made in China export here…by Youngman because the Mr. Albert Lam ex-CEO of Lotus Engineering is board director of ZAP and he was responsible for bringing Youngman, ZAP and Lotus Engineering together.
Is this reasons that G has brought this Proton’s roadmap and future goals.?
i’m deeply saddened.
one thing we should all learn that it is not the Company that drives the country’s economy, it’s the consumers’ buying power.
when consumers buys a product, it will generate wealth for the company, and the country’s economy. so giving what the consumers want, with the quality and service, consumers can be loyal.
To know consumer wants, delivering quality and first class service comes from market competitveness, not complacency that comes from protection.
think about it.
The only way to get more profit from a car is to be like toyota. Cars like lego. Take out boot from a fortuner and put a platform, you get a hilux. Same with the sedans as well. What Proton needs is actually a design which is beautiful and multipurpose which can be used on different products without being stale. Wait next financial quarter to start mocking…like malaysians all do
paul said:
‘We should give them the benefit of the doubt for the moment, considering we can now see a genuine desire to improve and positive results have come out of this desire. Proton has to improve the competitiveness of Proton cars in the international market – it cannot sell cars based on pure cheaper pricing without any other advantages forever. The Koreans are also starting to raise their prices, and Hyundai has even started to move upmarket with the RWD V8 Hyundai Genesis. This requires Proton cars to be up to date with the rest of the world in terms of technology and quality.’
so be it, if there is ‘genuine desire’ to better themselves, they had better get it right, all the time, every time. and since
‘This is a second chance of sorts given to Proton by its majority stakeholder as per request from Proton’s management themselves.’ ;
i/ we, as stake holders, expect nothing but the best effort on their part- no concesions and no exceptions. this kinda reminice of Harley- Davidson during the AMF years and its rebirth in the hands of Willie G. Davidson- in this case P1 in Syed Zainal’s……if they want my support, they have it- but they better not betray it!
The about turn from very positive news of a MOI only days ago. Pity minority shareholders who must have accumulated shares of Proton running up to the announcement of deal being struck. We’ll never know what really went down now would we? But I wouldn’t discount some big shark ala VK Lingam making “the” call at the 11th hour.
Seriously guys, don’t take things personally. If you don’t like Proton, don’t buy them. Work harder or settle with our P2. After time I realized how ranting is affecting my daily mood. And BTW, I’d really like our fuel price to go up, it’s so cheap that there are more getaway cars and mat rempits (or freedom fighters as I like to call them). Seriously, if you guys want Proton not to be protected, then it’s the same as telling yourselves to pay fuel without subsidies. Warmest Regards
Dear razor_clawzz,
Agree your point to certain extend. Lifting fuel subsidies and excessive import tax does to certain extend mitigate the troubles and messes brought about by P1. However, most of us, I mean those poor folks working hard to afford a decent car, cannot afford such luxury. Yes, car might be cheaper but paying fuel price at doubel or even triple at current price is like massive suicidal in short. We have enough financial burden with car insurance, repait & maintenance (in the event of accident), ever rising tolls, monthly car loan instalment + interest (the longer you loan, the more your pay) and not to mention your proposed free-market, supply-demand determined fuel costs. I’m not siding anybody but speaking on the edge of fence. What we need are not cheaper car, better technology-driven engine, more comfortable seats, superb interior design adn etc. What we need is more efficient public transport system, more secured or safer society to walk or travel around, less abuse or misuse of resources (aka corruption) and each sectors run by its professions, not by politicians. As a thumb of economy principle, natural resources are limited, we cannot manufacture oil, it’s digged out from earth. Instead of arguing on car price or fuel price, why not we look at the better picture where we are in fact running out of oil reserves? Btw, for your info, yesterday, oil price hit record-high of USD99 per barrel and USD100 is not too far from it. Seriously, everyone here give a thought.
Well, it’s all bad for Proton it seems judging from the replies here.. i too have weighed in more negatives than positives from such a move… now lads and gents, let’s fold our arms and see what they can do now…
In the car industries, there have been many stories of temporary stop in decline of uncompetitive companies. None of them survived on their for long. What Proton is doing, doing fleet sales, improving inventory, quicken the launch of new but not great models, all are standard defense mechanism. They don’t improve long run competitiveness. Of all the things they have done, the signing of the fleet deal with China is the smartest depending on how its done because in the end, China RMB will appreciate and they will be inclined to order over the long run especially if the deal is in US$ but fleet business is lousy because its all about financing. If Indian makers can offer better financing, they will lose the business in the long run too. My bet is the deal has no cost increase provision due to faling US$.
Proton is still dead. All this does is give management a chance to make their resume look better. How many want to bet that as soon as Proton make a profit, the current CEO and top managers will move on, after collecting a few deals for themselves first of course…
VW want the 51% stake in proton from khazanah which we cannot do that.it just like giving a space in your house to outsider.proton needs someone who really know about automotive industry,really understand their core business and aware about the automotive technology.
If they make persona first in the first place we won’t even need to go thru these soap opera…
All business is gamble in some way, and proton has bet malaysian in this game.
If this is what proton wants, then they will have their change to prove or disprove themself.
i think proton nowday like 30 year old OLD BABY, in future still need gov to take care on it, maybe KWSB pump in money again or else, btw, if proton jv with VW, at least can learn more technology from others, no need 10-20 years also lunch the same model or add something on previous model like persona…frankly…too bad.
skoda also a company which JV with VW ..if not mistake…
Sudden changes in government policy will threathen other foreign direct investment. today G can call-off this “Mega” 20percent share acquisition, tomorrow G can kick Toyata or Handa out….we dont wan proton still under protected by G..we wan fair and square competition and we wan quality cars in lower price (we wan toyata in lower price, not proton)
we wan VW
Well, take out all the diplomatic speech, the true fact is the vw will cut out all the useless hanky panky suppliers and the lazy smoking workers, they of course complain to govt, and the govt of course with the election coming must obey to their demand. Sell all your proton shares, if you hav any, otherwise you will die together with the company!!!
Proton and the Government can do what they want to do,,Me?,,i,ll never buy a Proton car..
JULIANLEE2 shaddap man…
pathetic comments..
what a sad news.
they potong should invent hybrid car as fuel price is going up.
hybrid car should be a good market provided they sell cheaper lar.
and dont mount a washing machine motor at the rear wheel axle larr………..
:p
Hi neo2, thanks for the info! Yeah, it hit US$100 already. To make it short, there are lots and lots of shallow people especially in rural areas and this ‘massive’ subsidies are making the rakyat taking their beloved G for granted, and all ills will just grow exponentially. Don’t you see? All these financial burdens (car insurance, repair & maintenance (in the event of accident), ever rising tolls, monthly car loan instalment + interest) are proportional to the subsidies. It’s kinda transparent so it’s very hard to put into constructive words :s By right, our annual income does suggest we cannot even afford to drive cars and maintain our ‘average’ lifestyle. So practically we want minimal crony interference and more deligent manpower at Proton
I agree that Proton should fight and set its own path to success. The only thing that I’m not sure is how Proton could be on its own, purely, from a carmaker perspective, i.e able to chart its direction as a business entity without much intervention.
If really Proton has seen the light at the end of the tunnel, this is the best time to work on its brand value which is way left behind. Technology is another aspect Proton should now concentrate though I know will incur huge investment. Also the ability to introduce wide range of model could strengthen the market share – I can simply say that many are looking forward to an introduction of Proton MPV.
Good luck!
its a good decision and a brave one too but is it a wise decision?i may not prefer proton going into the hands of foreigners but when they have no choice i dont think they have another better option and on what basis the second chance given??up coming BLM?2009 MPV? or good sales record of PERSONA??as many said above its too early to trust persona’s sales number because its not selling or start selling well outside the country where there is no malaysian NAP?so how did they convinced the G??and the G should explain the real roadmap to us!!we form the G and we have every rights to know!!!
we can buy technology nowadays and thats shouldnt be a problem if our car is date now.siemens,bosch and many other companies are available and they will help do R&D..but can we sell enough cars to make proton profitable and strong enough to sustain for any future losses??and i wonder how perodua can just sustain an entire company with just 3 main models and makes good profit??their export numbers are poor too..
proton should come up with more innovative products..plug in electric cars,super compact car like SMART and sporty hatch with diesel or bio diesel to penetrate the market like india and china is the best way to go..dont take risk by selling car in europe where people like jeremy clarkson with his biased and stupid reviews of asian cars still alive and its almost useless with what we are capable off..we should see what near us..thinking big is good..but big thinking must be the first step..india,china,philipines and indonesia is the best market to target..we can sell dated cars there at a bargain price..for now that is..when we are strong enough we can share platform and etc with automotive giants and can demand the exchange of technology…but proton should do all this fast before the chinese car makers learn and improve and before the india market start making their own modern cars fo the world….its never too late but please dont make the same mistake by having dream of selling cars in europe,australia and etc..please have proper planning and make specific model that is sellable and desirable…and i believe proton will be able to do it…and make full use of lotus please!!!
I am supporting government decision partly. First of all, P1 is just like family business to Malaysia, since major stacks controlled by Khazanah. If i am a businessman, i would like to have joint venture with others when i am financially strong, at the best priced in share market, at least at a value equal to the assets of the company. But in P1 situation, with the drop in sales, and the share been priced low, for sure any deal with any new partners especially with big players in automotives industry will not to the advantage of the company. No one know what kind of deal exactly, but for sure P1 will not gain from it. Just look back at joint venture the mitsu, and currently daihatsu-P2, none of those ensure that local company to gain latest tech. I think, if one day daihatsu going to leave P2 alone, P2 will not have the capability to build their own car!. (as for me P2 is still a car assembler rather manufacturer, like Naza etc)
So the best time is have joint venture is when you are at a better shape, Government and P1 management team think they are improving and will be able to get better deal later.
But how long can we wait, nobody can be sure if this can be achieved. Now VW is looking for strategic partner elsewhere…..within ASEAN. And eventually after AFTA, they will penetrate our market and SEA market in general, and they will not be knocking at P1 door again.
Anyhow, even if P1 will be successful or not in the future, becoming profitable GLC or not is not so important, as long government is willing to support them financially..
Definitely a brave decision. I do feel that VW was bullying Proton, since they know Proton needed them more than they needed them. I think the issues are more centeralised on shares (51% demanded by VW- hence total management control), technology sharing or transfer , and the status of Lotus. With what had happened with MG (rover and Mini), there are possibilities that VW are only interested in acquiring Lotus.. Again, brave decision and good luck..
If people think this decision was largely business they are dead wrong. This was firstly about a management that knows it would be finished career wise after Proton is sold AND then its about the election coming. They can’t sign a deal now or it will be major fodder for the opposition.
True Proton has breathing room but its no reason to end the negotiation with Volkswagen. If they disagree on terms, they can always negotiate the terms.
No this is about politics and the need to look good mostly both for the Malaysian leaders and managers that run Proton.
It’s time for PROTON to LIQUIDATE.
1. R&D $ – GONE. (maybe additional taxpayers $ helps)
2. Attitude of the workers – INCOMPETENT
3. Management – FOOLS; trained by a pathetic protectionist system that has no idea what ‘fair competition’ is all about.
Sometimes, we have to admint Julianlee has a good point. We are doomed! Our children are cursed with PROTON ECONOMICs !
Pro-tong Poh-tong Harga
“But as usual this is a GLC (a.k.a. Gomen Linked Company a.k.a. bumiputra company a.k.a. who cares what the market says). So they dont really use much common sense in their strategies. This is just a stop-gap measure to safeguard Proton’s KPIs so that their overpaid executives can keep their jobs and keep Volkswagen at bay. So the cheap pricing of the Pesona makes little commercial sense.”
http://www.malaysia-today.net/nuc2006/letter.php?itemid=454
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So, 2nd chance for turn around plan or to keep the over paid but under perform executive. There are so many “congratulation” by blind defenders up there. Sheesh…….., pathetic and ill informed frogs under coconut shell!
This is how protonomic argument in talking with VW: -
1. Talk on – need oversea market penetration and technology transfer.
2. Talk off – need 2nd chance to turn around, as the sales for Persona is good, already show some inprovement, etc.
These 2 argument will be use alternately depend whether the talk is “ON” or “OFF”.
TheDucks,
Continued,
4. Stone age technology.
5. No economies of scale – volume to achieve competitive price.
6. Infested by cronies vendors supplying sub-standard component.
7. Nee Sugar Dady (G-tax payer monies) and Sugar Mummy (NAP) to continue its existence.
8. bla, bla, bla, ………
Can’t really comment as don’t really know what VW offered but it’s just common sense not to try and sell your house when it’s on fire. Better to wait until the fires out and you fix it up.
Anyway a little bird told me the dealers were shown the completed BLM yesterday – hope somebody post some pics just like during the Persona presentation…
sugar_glider, not as pathethic as you
well they managed to get their share prices up with all the VW saga… but to be honest, with the “supposed” said terms by VW… it doesnt seem all a good deal for proton but we really cant blame VW considering the quality of cars rolling out from the proton factories..
Well.. as said in the previous blog entry.. time will tell!!
The silly thinking of not needing a strategic partner merely based on a few months of Persona sales and a little export deals were indications of how short the vision of G and those running P.
How is P going to compete? Do P have the technology platform to compete, or any innovative product to offer?
In a highly competitive market, even big players like Ford, Jaguar to name a few are struggling and losing money. P is not even qualified to be called a competitor if placed along the big names in the auto industry.
Government can now continue to protect P and spoilt it. Very well done…
Have u guys heard of VW Bluemotion Polo? It costs 11k pounds and uses a 1.4 TDI engine..wats so great about it? VW claims it can travel 700 MILES with ONE full tank! Imagine the technologies they have, can proton do this? Not in another 5 years mayb…so sad
seem like the intension of selling is still there…just want a better terms. Don’t make shows laa.. later whole world think u all play2… next time will not have international partner already. You have to sell for 1 euro.
Look at the sky and hope to fly….
talk r&d.. but still haven’t come out any engine…
maybe its still on paper…
its always look nice when we have plans… bigger the better….
when doing it… and it fails.. and there is always many reason… dont talk about that story again looo.
build car is now what our best… cuti-cuti malaysia is our best laaa.
Now you still sell expensive… later after AFTA… don’t know how you going to sell, as no body want buy one. Buy 1 free 1?
have to put politic out of this…
a company is aim for profit and growth…
go ahead with new car launch…
go ahead pay all your loses…
go ahead remove the G protection/advantage…
go ahead with AFTA….
go ahead HONDA city sell 50k…
i fast fast go buy honda looo.
open the eye… without tax.. camry is selling about 70k…
the price of waja?? erm.. still need to choose?
You really think in 1 year time, waja can turn into camry?
you sure? you betul betul betul sure?
on paper sure laaa… contract is write like that.
borrow $ many many first… pay back 20 years.
everything also put profit at the last consideration…
then we rugi a lot laaa….
siapa pay?
Those who compare Proton to other car companies particularly Toyota and Honda makes more of a point then they realize. Why? Because there is no unlimited choice of when to do a partnership. At best Proton have a couple of years before all the major car companies have decided on their operating base in South East Asia. Volkswagen will built a plant either in Thailand, Indonesia or Vietnam and the partnership is dead for sure.
The assumption that there is more time to decide is not exactly true. It does not depend on Proton performance but other car companies. At this point no one is going to trust Malaysia to do a deal anymore and if there is still another car company that wants to do deal with Proton, they are not going to hold up any plans to do a deal with Proton.
Regardless, the chance of Proton getting a better deal? Not much.. Volkswagen knew that…
Let see Proton bleed to death. Nobody should ever offer any help to this fella again.
should ask the demi-gods from the ivory towers of klcc as to why they cock it up in the negotiations….
this situation will have repercussion across all types of business and industry in malaysia.
i beleive they have already made thier choice on thai or indo. if not they will go china or india.
the persistance in keeping proton alive is killing the country. better kill the brand now.
sell proton as tut-tut in thai…low cost of investment, fast turn around and BE point…absurdly high ROCE….once you get thailand to become the cash cow of proton, plough the cash into proton’s R&D…good idea eh?…
everybody, we should boycott proton, teach them a lesson not to be so big headed, but still, many ppl require cars as cars are so bloody expensive here, we should overthrow the goverment like thailand
Not overthrow la. Let’s give our G, a few more chances. The people working in G departments are very slow. We must give them time. macam ‘kura kura’.
Boycott PROTON = Yes. It’s our responsibility to do that as a MALAYSIAN.
It takes years to win customers confidence in a product, but just a moment to ruin it. Frankly speaking P has let down so many rakyat with it poor quality and reliability.
I won’t be buying a P. The Satria Neo and Persona shows improvements over previous P models, but as it carries the P badge, I have no confidence already. Wait another ten years when the confidence is restored, maybe I will consider buying.
in ten years, i’ll be fully setlled down in the uk, but the congestion charge , tax is killing me, considering going to germany
proton is protected by the G. if only the G allow non-political, undistrubed competition between the car manufacturers then proton will die off like yesterdays fly. IMO if VW took over Proton, i might consider of going to the showroom in 5 years or so after VW transfered technology and improve quality. In this case, may it just die off and close so that we can get cheap, HIGHER quality foreign cars.
thats why, proton thinks just becos thier persona did a bit well selling, they think we like it and think its good, pooi
the persona is just only a toy for a moment. after that they will continue to make lousy cars. so dun get cheated by them!!!
STOP THE BUYING, STOP THE SCUKING!!!
to me, the persona isnt even bad, its awful
all potong cars should featured in every smashing car movies
destroy all potong cars, dun let them get away!
potong to the hell…!!!
it should be in a special edition of jermey clarkson’s heaven and hell: malaysia potong cars