Haha, I think this threat has been out of topics. Don’t go too deep into politics. We are here talk about cars. I suggest that we better don’t use personal attack.

I hope that proton will improve their perdana to be up to standard..especially safety to target higher-end market. Proton should also publish the crash result of all car models to show us how safe is their models. We can’t judge just base on 1 model which is not the same spec with the one in the local market.
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if they publish all of their results no one will ever gonna buy potong again

I hope that proton will improve their perdana to be up to standard..especially safety to target higher-end market. Proton should also publish the crash result of all car models to show us how safe is their models. We can’t judge just base on 1 model which is not the same spec with the one in the local market.

How many ‘forumners’ can afford this car?normally the one who talk so much can’t afford….
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how but yourself? u only send 1 comment then u can afford kah…!
we are free to speak in public

The societies of the worked today are not built by pessimists.

We all strive for a better future for oursleves, and our future. How we achieve that will differ.

Pessimists like you only reap the benefits of the people that have layed thier future and their lives however big or small so all of us could enjoy a better future. You are doing a great disgrace to them that came before you so you can have the life you have now.

There are people who are just happy to scrounge up a living with scraps, there are equally that will never be satisfied. Please do not confuse the drive and motivation to make things better from being unhappy.

If people should always be happy with that they’d got, humanity would not have left the caves.

There is more to life than driving, spending money on an asset that depreciates in value and increases costs to run it. If you want a rush; do downhill mountain biking, try Fraser hill for starters.

A lot of anguish and bickering is spent on something that is not worth the effort. Here is a revelation for you; You can’t change the world. It’s a naive adolescent value. We thought we could. But we can’t. Seriously. Your boy scouts days are over. Take a reality pill dudes. Take it as it is and learn to live life to the fullest. Live and learn. All this negativity will bring you down. Be positive.

Happy New Year guys!

We’ve bloody heavy tax and this is a bloody true fact and the people here in http://paultan.org just can’t accept the fact.
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This is not the fact, I repeat and said it is not a FACT for fair price under free market, but it is a MANIPULATION & SQUEEZING of hard earn monies under crap NAP.

We can change for better, G to a certain extent can manipulate the supply-demand curve but ultimately G can’t control the people purchasing power!

I vote with my money. And next year, I will vote at the ballot box. Might not do shit but I can sleep well at night thinking I did something to change the country we live in.

Maybe you are fine just accepting the fact you can pay the rediculous tax on cars (and the “AP” premium). I’m not. And I’m sure not limited to the people in Paultan.org

In psychology we have a term called learnt helplessness. Unfortunately, that is the state of the car buying public. We are expected to take wahtever scraps gets handed down.

My friend, whether you would want to admit it or not, the tide is turning. Wonder why suddenly Proton is working hard on “new” models and better quality? Perhaps mr and mrs joe public isn’t buying them as much lately? Voting with thier money perhaps?

You seriously can’t think that Proton is doing us a favour releasing new cars.

(I use proton jsut as an example before I get jumped on by the defenders)

You may not see it, but it happens. A single person wont be able to do much. But as a collective, well educated consumers will always prevail.

No offence to those that spent money on expensive imports,…seriously, why should I work myself to death so I can pay someone for the AP that they get free?

Before you mis-read any more comments, read this again. Good safe cars should never be a price driven option.

“A Citroen C4 and Ford Focus racks up the same number of stars in the NCAP as the C and E class Mercedes’. The C4 and Focus both come with 6 airbags and come in at £10k and the C class, 2x as much and the E Class, 3x more.”

Anyone with a tidak apa attitude who only cares about whatever crumbs he can scrounge under the current system and attacks anyone who wants positive change CAN’T.

December 30, 2007 @ 10:54 am

Show me any sentences from my comments that I’m defending.
I”m just saying that ada duit beli masidis, takda duit pakai buatan malaysia.
We’ve bloody heavy tax and this is a bloody true fact and the people here in http://paultan.org just can’t accept the fact.
Before you are able to change this situation with your power, the comments made here, nothing much different from talk cock, sorry to say that.
My car has 6 airbags, without taxes I am able to get 10 airbags car with the same amount of money. But well, what can I say. Just work harder for the 10 airbags car and get it in the future.

Just like any products, be it building, toys, computer, etc, safety is the basic requirement, car no exception, it is not optional.

I’m sure if my salary was a 5x, a BMW would be clump change. I will be able to buy a new 3 series every year.

The truth is, protectionist policies and backhanded politically driven “money making schemes” has driven good safe cars out of reach of regular, honest hardworking people, yet making some individuals filthy rich.
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Well said, with our natural resources, we should do better than Sing and this what we should achieved.

The West’s working class mid income group like Manager level with income of USD 70 to 90K per annum can afford entry class sedan like BMW 3 seiries or C-Class.

For us in the same mid income bracket, with average income of around RM 60K, we can afford Vios or Waja only?

December 29, 2007 @ 11:37 pm

Can you make a difference?

4G63T DSM said,

December 29, 2007 @ 11:40 pm

How about you? Can you change anything other than getting victorious in some foolish argument?

A Citroen C4 and Ford Focus racks up the same number of stars in the NCAP as the C and E class Mercedes’. The C4 and Focus both come with 6 airbags and come in at £10k and the C class, 2x as much and the E Class, 3x more.

Your same logic would have Mercedes made the C class a 4 star, well, because you should have worked harder to afford an E class? Lol.

Right.

Whats wrong then? Because Pagani is smart enough not wanting to spend unnecessary money on engine development on such a low volumm car? Besides the 7.3L is bespoke to the Zonda.

Least you forget it has been MORE than 10 years Proton has been using other people’s engines. Even now its campro is technically only “half finished”.

If Proton would have used someone elses engine (ie Toyota) that can give us more performance, better fuel efficiency and reliability, I’d be a complete moron to even contemplate a compliant….

eh, why can’t I afford to drive a BMW or Mercedes?

1) Not BN government affiliated (you get the picture, I dont have to spell it out for you)
2) Not born with silver spoon in mouth
3) Smart enough not to finance a corrupt government with its APs and such.
4) I rather spend the money on tangible appreciating assets.

Why complain then? Maybe you were too young then to remember that before Proton even existed, cars were once affordable in the country. 20 years ago a civic was 21k. If you say that this is inflation, go ahead and interpolate the price trends. Your plate of economy rice will be $20, and our salary will be 5x what we are getting now.

I’m sure if my salary was a 5x, a BMW would be clump change. I will be able to buy a new 3 series every year.

The truth is, protectionist policies and backhanded politically driven “money making schemes” has driven good safe cars out of reach of regular, honest hardworking people, yet making some individuals filthy rich.

So Isaac, if you are indeed in catagory 1 and 2, you already forfieted your credibility to even say what you mentioned 2 posts up. And if you are not, and made your bread with only your ingenuity, then my hats off to you.

I make enough to live a comfortable life. But spending 250k on an entry level BMW will make me a laughing joke among my peers. Not very smart of me.

And why say people shouldn’t criticize Proton if they can’t afford BMW/Merc, what kind of retarded reasoning is that? I actually do own one thanks, but I still think Protons should be safe. Maybe other people’s lives don’t matter to you as long as you’re safe but I beg to differ. And if someone can only afford a Proton and wants to criticize, so what? They have every damn right to demand the most safety features possible for their money, which is totally not the case at the moment.

December 29, 2007 @ 9:31 pm
Pagani managed to create the Zonda in less than 10 years and he’s on par with Ferrari in terms of performance and quality

Pagani sourced their engine from Mercedes.

As for pedestrian safety, it all goes down to the design at the front. The height of bumper, size, angle of hood, etc. Soft bumpers will be safer for pedestrians but obviously, it won’t protect the driver better. So ask yourself… do you buy a car that’s safer for you? Or do you get a car that’s safer in case someone decided to commit suicide by jumping in front of your car? I certainly hope it’s not coz u have sudden urges to run down jaywalkers as they stroll across the street. And I’m with 4G63T about you guys running out of things to argue on.

Now, as for comparing with Proton, it has never interest me coz I never felt safe in one so I’ve never own any. The only Proton I’ve ever considered was the Putra and that was purely for its bang for buck performance. I merely wanted to highlight that the test was done on the UK SPEC IMPIAN and NOT WAJA. This might give the local Waja owners a false sense of security. As it is, everyone is already declaring it’s a WAJA. IMPIAN IS NOT A WAJA. It only looks like one.

I’m really tired of people who compare Proton with Honda & Toyota and said that Proton is still a very young company so should be given a chance to do better. Being young is not an excuse. Pagani managed to create the Zonda in less than 10 years and he’s on par with Ferrari in terms of performance and quality, with his own funding! Proton with the government’s billions can’t do well? WHY NOT??? Ask yourself.

Its simple for the government to just say, ok, all new cars must have these safety gear, or rate better than this crash rating by 2009..

I’m sure most of the imports (perhaps save the chinese cars) will be able to meet these safety standards with ease, which after all, they have to meet in the other markets they sell.

Don’t meet don’t sell.

Its simple, In Canada, VW themselves lost a full year of Diesel engined cars because they just missed the emissions standard for the year. Now wont safety be more important?

Now then, wont it be really embarassing that our jaguh kampungs can’t meet these standards?

So to be blunt, until the local marques get there, there wont be any better safety standards for the rest of us. All manufacturers will cheap out when then can, even local CKD Mercedes’ and BMWs.

As for the Pedestrian safety, that was obvious enough some certain people are running out of argumentative points….. but that is just stating the obvious. I got a good laugh though….

Then comparing a UK-spec Waja you can’t even get over here to the one of the worst minicompact cars in the world and saying everyone should be proud?

funnier still, when as someone else just noted, these are often the same people who are first to post snotty comments on any China car thread. Then complain Proton so young why expect so much!

Anyways, looks like a typical Proton safety thread. Got people saying airbags are dangerous killers omgz better not 2 have!!!, got people saying all Protons passed every single major safety test in the world when no documentation exists except for 1 car in EuroNCAP, got people bashing Perodua (lol), but the pedestrian impact rating argument is a new one!

Perhaps we can’t compare the Waja to the new C Class. But there are a host of cars that are smaller and cheaper (and dare say even older) yet perform better than the Waja.

Proton being the new kid on the block is no way justifiable to put your customers at risk because of your own incompetence. So people comparing brands are fair game. I’m sure you accuse the Chinese cars for being unsafe and shodily put together and I wont blame you for saying that. Whats the difference with proton? You are defending Proton for just the sake of it being a Malay(sian) company?

I hope people realise that the export versions come with better safety gear that is not available locally. Some of the toughest safty crash tests/regulations are in America.

I was in an accident which quite closely replicates the NCAP frontal offset crash. It was in a 1989 Mitsu Galant. 90kmh into a Ford winstar minivan (which is a softer “target” than the deformable concrete structure of the NCAP). The car is rated the equivalent to todays 4 star NCAP (back then it only had the north american IIHS test) and it shows just how well it held up in the crash. Doors opened and closed, windshield is intact and uncracked. Bear in mind that this is a 1989 model. Size wise its close to the Waja.

I fear to think I would be as well protected in a Waja/Gen2 and worst in a Wira…I dare not even think how it would be like in a Saga or a Kancil.

Even the bumpers in our cars are not close to international standard. My Galant had a 4 x 3″ high strenght steel beam behind the PU bumper cover (which is why it had such a big bumper). Our bumper is jsut the bumper cover. In the same crash above, the headlights and radiator remained undamanged. Imagine that for a sec. 90kmh crash. Now imagine the same crash in a Waja.

Perhaps it not so much of Proton not wanting to make safer cars ( bolting on more airbags will only do so much) but knowing how to. Many years of research went in to simulate of the entire chassis in a crash. Not quite sure Proton is up to that yet.

…and yes, I would put a roll cage in my satria if JPJ doens’t in all its wisdom deem it as an illegal modification. In north america, if you want a roll cage, its fair game.

And a tip for proton. Want for customers? make them safer…at least make like you care……more convincingly. There is always a demand for safety. I don’t know what were you doing (sleeping?) as the last few family members that decided to pass on Proton this time around, one of the reasons were safety (also reliability) ranked pretty high

December 28, 2007 @ 1:42 pm

BigFish pointed out correctly. 3 stars is for the UK Spec Impian, which comes with ABS, seatbelt pretentioners and side airbags. I don’t think the Waja has that.

Also note that Impian is classified as Large Family Car, same as C-Class and for a 2002 model, 3 stars is the lowest. The rest of the cars from 2001 onwards are 4 stars.

I think that for as long as there’s no demand for more safety devices, the local manufacturers will not include them as default in the interest of cost saving. Until then, our only choice is buy the car with the highest stars we can afford and drive carefully so we never have to sacrifice the car.
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KL-ATR, 2006 Chevrolet Aveo sedan only scored 1 star in frontal crash to deformable barrier/side and pole impact but scored better point in pedestrian protection that was 3 stars compare this 2007 C Class only scored 2 stars. Proton Impian 2002 scored 3 star and 1 star relatively. BMW 3 Series 2005 scored 1 star for pedestrian protection same as 2002 Impian. I’m not sure where you get the info that the rest of the cars from 2001 onwards are 4 stars. Always remember the EuroNCAP is only a guidelines for car manufacturers to follow as minimum requirements in new car assessment program. It doesn’t always mean the more stars means always safe. It only mean safer car.

Drive carefully…. yes but sometimes some other people drive carelessly or because of the road conditions or rainy days. One more is that in real life everything will be all deferent. EuroNCAP frontal test is only based on 64KM/h with 40% overlap of the width of the widest part of the car not including side mirror, side and rear 50KM/h and pole impact is 29KM/h. In real life this speed are much higher. High way more than 100KM/h. So just an example this C Class impact test scored 5 stars based on frontal, side and pole with the speed I mentioned above, in real life if this car drive at speed of over 100KM/h, do you think the occupants will still always safe? Besides that with what size of the car crashing will also different.

That’s way, in future bigger car such as those MPV and SUV will have a “softer” front design and for passenger cars will have “harder” front designs.

Please don’t always compare to Proton, try to the same world class manufacturer such as BMW, VW, Toyota, Honda and so only. Proton still a new player in automotive industries compare with those big brother.

Will, just my 2 cents.

ingolstadt said,
December 27, 2007 @ 10:44 pm

THERE ARE TONS OF SMALL CARS OUT THERE ACHIEVING 5 STARS. RESEARCH BEFORE YOU TALK.
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11 cars out of 70 mini class IS NOT A TON!

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tons of small cars mean thousands kg of small cars

Also note that Impian is classified as Large Family Car, same as C-Class and for a 2002 model, 3 stars is the lowest. The rest of the cars from 2001 onwards are 4 stars.

I think that for as long as there’s no demand for more safety devices, the local manufacturers will not include them as default in the interest of cost saving. Until then, our only choice is buy the car with the highest stars we can afford and drive carefully so we never have to sacrifice the car.