Thailand has implemented a new policy that encourages the use of E85-capable cars. Both the excise tax on E85 fuel as well as the cars that burn them have been cut. E85 excise tax has been dropped from 3.65 baht per litre to 2.75 baht per litre, and excise duty for CBU vehicles that are E85-capable have been dropped between 25% to 35%, depending on engine displacement.
You may be thinking – since when are E85 vehicles popular in Thailand? That’s the thing, they aren’t. This new policy thinks forward and is an attempt to encourage the next generation of Thai motorists to prefer E85-fueled products.
The Thai Energy Ministry will meet up with refineries, petrol kiosks and car manufacturers later this week to promote the use and supply of E85. Car manufacturers reported to be interested in bringing in CBU E85 vehicles in the next 3 to 5 months include GM, Ford and Volvo. In fact, Volvo already sells E85-capable cars in Thailand, and is the only manufacturer to do so.
CKD production of E85 vehicles will begin in 18 months. We may end up seeing Thailand become the manufacturing base for E85 vehicles for the region, as more and more countries look towards alternative fuels such as E85 in face of rising crude prices.
A litre of E85 fuel is 10 baht cheaper in Thailand compared to a litre of RON95 gasoline. The ethanol in Thailand’s E85 comes from sugarcane or tapioca. Thailand is aiming for its national fuel consumption to consist of 60% E85 fuel by 2011.
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i’m not quite sure about the sustainability of using ethanol for fuel in this region though. i mean it would definitely increase the price of sugar cane and tapioca but would we be able to provide enough to convert to fuel? so far only brazil has been successful but hey, maybe it’s a good move after all but we’ll see
but anyway, as usual with my skepticism, i don’t we’ll be implementing this anytime soon as our country’s “pride and joy” are way behind in technology and i don’t think they’ll be able to develop any flex fuel vehicle anytime soon :)
Think of Malaysia. Think of Proton. Think of Proton. Think of Campro. Think of Campro. Questions comes, do Campro support to use this fuel? Since this is a so call Malaysian FIRST engine. I don’t think they’ll sacrifice it if it doesn’t run the new fuel. Perhaps, some tweak n tune may make it work?
i dun wan to be negative but i think this move will make the food crisis more worst…since sugarcane is used to make sugar and tapioca can be use to make flour…poor to the hungry african children…i think the best solution as an alternative fuel rite now is CNG or NGV.Our country still have lot of reserve on natural gas..if i not mistaken for another 50 years of reserve….this can give adequate time for scientist and engineer to develop new type of renewable resource.let say nuclear power vehicle…or at least more efficient biofuel from palm tree.other solution that is hard to be implement is stop war at iraq…stop US scum from provoke iran…they is the culprit that make us suffer from rocketing oil prices….
najibest….dun think only proton can make engine la…plzz be more open. at malaysia there a lot of uni research n develope new kind of engine, hybrid and electric, sola and biofuel…its just need time to make sure the consumer get the best without any fault ( i consider this impossible but let say it more efficient and less prob)…and for your information at my uni there is a bus that run on biodiesel made from waste cooking oil!!!
I agree with chap_de_x , Biofuel which at first seemed as god send is contributing to the world food crisis… while we here argue about fuel subsidies getting less, crap cars… there are countries(Haiti) whos governments have been toppled over directly due to hunger. Till countries solve the 890million people now living in hunger i feel its kinda morally wrong to take food and turn it into bio fuel. I do hope thailand are sure of what they are doing… Cause just like our gov they tend to act on the spur of the moment… usually turns out sour after a few years of doing so. Good example is their idea of a rice cartel like opac… yea starve the world while they argue how much a bag of rice cost….
chap_de_x is correct.
Agriculture land will have to make way for bioethanol crops. There was a news documentary 1 month back on BBC showing what happens when a nation relies so much on biofuel that food crops are not planted anymore to make way for this one
don’t be mistaken. do your own research. you will find that the price increase in food isn’t caused by biofuels. OIL is the largest contributor to the cost of a calorie of food. yes, TRANSPORTATION COSTS. so you are essentially “eating” oil.
the folks who are telling us otherwise are either ignorant or trying to detract us from the facts.
however, this is given current conditions. what some of the posters have mentioned above may come true when biofuels become widely accepted and there is huge demand for it.
The other problem on E85 that no one has bothered to mention is its lower energy content per mol.
Which means you will go less kms per L of E85. Which also means you will end up burning more of it if you maintain your daily mileage.
Biofuels leading to food shortage is definately a present and future worry as more farmland is converted to going fuel crops. However, biofuels can be made by many parts of plants that we can’t eat. The parts of the plant that we can’t eat can be used for biofuel. It really depends on management of these industries.
I’ve been useing “gasohol” for years (but only 10% ethanol content) and you can already notice the mileage loss. The good thing is, they have better pump octane rating which run great on tuned turbo cars.
As for us running biofuels. Good luck. Until proton comes up with a biodiesel or flexfuel engine, you can kiss this concept goodbye. Its pathetic that the entire automotive industry and the country itself is hindered by incompetents in the government and its GLCs
4G63T
Your statement abut E85 been less efficient is only party true. It is true in the case of an engine designied to be ‘flexi’ in that it can run on anthing from 100% petrol to E85. The compromise of compression ratios doesn’t allow E85 to operate at max efficiency.
On the other hand, if the engine is designed to run only on E85 then it becomes much more efficient than when in a flexi set up.
Since most cars than can use E85 to date are flexible on which fuel they use then yes they do burn less efficiently
chap de x, no i’m not being negative here. i didn’t by all means say that we would never get to use biofuel, but i’m just saying that it won’t be anytime soon seeing how things are going around here right now i mean just look at NGV which was hailed to be the next major thing, we have lots of gas and it’s the best temporary solution, but still after how many years, we still only see mostly taxis using it and refueling NGV is a pain in the a**.
if you see the example of brazil, their country is very serious in pushing for biofuel and they are indeed very successful because their govt was very serious about it and they have abundant of crops to produce ethanol. the fact that most of bazil’s petroleum reserves are in the deep water area (meaning it’s more expensive to produce and that made Petrobras the leader in deepwater) might also have something to do with the push for flex fuel…
i just hope our country can use what we have as an advantage and help us to rely less and less to oil….
on a totally different not, Fifth Gear tonight had a section of the show where they drove an old Merc diesel across the UK using nothing but waste cooking oil! It worked perfectly too
Easy target drag Proton into it some more, ha ha…
Proton can adjust campro to run on E85, it’s not rocket science. But bio-fuels are a scam. We tried with bio-diesel – but the problem is that sugar/palm oil are getting too expensive. People talk like these things are free and unwanted. Why burn it in your car when you can sell it as food.
The answer to higher fuel prices is not some miracle technical holy grail, the answer is just to drive a smaller car…
Bravo to Thailand…..Long term positive implications on the environment, economy, social, etc…unlike our Government run by a bunch of monkeys.
Regarding Food Prices and E85:
The situation regarding food prices is more complicated then one portrayed above. Global climate change affecting crops, oil affecting transportation costs, shortsighted acceptance of biofuels and the movement of money into the commodities market from other securities (such as mortgages, stocks, bonds, monetary exchange) all contribute to the problem.
Biofuels do have an ecological and economic impact:
Even if we argue that the impact is not an immediate one, in the long term, it will be one. The crops needed to produce biofuels is the same crop used to feed people. Any expansion of agriculture is most often at the cost of forests – the primary, land-based and most significant carbon absorbers of our planet.
Biofuels are not the solution, its a problem:
In Brazil, ever greater amounts of the Amazon and other large rainforests have been cleared to fuel the country’s increasing demand for biofuel. The ecological and climate impact is doubled because forests are the primary carbon absorbers and E85 fuels still emit carbon besides being up to 30% poorer in fuel consumption on flex-fuel engines.
Worse, E85 has higher emissions of acetaldehyde – a toxic pollutant and possible carcinogen.
Someone above mention that 100% E85 engines are more efficient than Flex-fuel E85 engines – this is true, IN THEORY those engines would be more power efficient. But this does not mean it is more fuel efficient. Do show us a car that is 100% E85 and you’ll find a big mistake. When you take in the full impact of E85, it is simply less efficient than gasoline based on the ecological, economic and social impact.
Regarding Thailand:
Thailand’s attempt at promoting flex-fuel is mis-informed at least, foolish at worse. Where do they think they are going to get the flex fuel? Who is going to pay for the development of infrastructure (estimated at USD200,000 per petrol station in the US)?
Can you imagine? The Thai government is going to REDUCE their tax income from cars in order to SPEND MORE money to upgrade the petrol infrastructure and import E85 fuels! Where’s the sense in that? Who is going to pay?
Its the tax-payer. As if the price of food is so cheap these days.
I wrote above that E85 is a problem. This is misrepresented.
E85 can be part of a solution if the resources needed to source it is managed to prevent further loss of our natural resources.
Still, alternative power such as wind-sun-water is the real solution backed up with eletric power transportation.
Hybrids are a way to go especially in Thailand with their perpetual traffic jams. They are the one step towards full eletric power and money can then be invested into enhancing the power grid and alternative power sources. E85 may be truly more effective in combination and possibly more efficient – you still cant beat oil.
This will pave the way to a day where you drive to work and plug in your car at a roadside or carpark powerpoint. Or go to Starbucks and enjoy both free wifi and eletric charging.
They really think ahead this time around. Still it is food source they turn into energy. Food for human turn for food for motorvehicle. Sigh. Do they really need this? Samak is already being push to step down right now. Maybe after this he don’t even have food to cook. turn it into biofuel.
I don’t get all this hype about biofuel. In the US it has cost corn to go up by about 300% and that it’s still as expensive as petrol if you count in E85’s inefficiencies and so on. And it was researched that using this so biofuel is contributes more towards global warming if you count in the ramifications of clearing jungles for more land in order to cope with the rising demands of biofuel and also for food. I think the solution is very obvious, make a freaking electric car. Technologies exist but due to patent restrictions we’ll have to make do with different batteries. The thing is that if the Malaysian government were smart, they would use proton and pour R&D money into producing decent electric cars. Even crappy cars like Zap are winning awards!
leedehao – the electric car sound very nice doesnt it, just plus it an and drive ff and it has zero emmissions and pollution right? But, what do you think is used to create that electricity? Still to this day most of the worlds electric power comes from buring coal, which is equally as bad for the environment than buringing oil
not smart = “R&D money into producing decent electric cars”
but whatever it is, to blame our fuel problems on proton is definitely a new low. i suppose we can blame rising food prices, low min. wage, loss of batu puteh..etc. on proton as well while we’re at it if it makes us feel better.
what we need is a progressive govt, willing to make tough choices (painful or otherwise) that will benefit the country in the near future and after that. unfortunately for us, they are too embroiled in power and maintaining their way of life to realise what the rest of the world is doing.
in this respect, proton is doing much better. at least it realises it has no chance of surviving by concentrating too much on the domestic market, and now looks to exports for long term survival. If overseas markets push for E85 use, Im pretty sure there will be E85 running protons.
Guys! let’s face it, regardless of any fuel that plan to be used. We still need to pay that amount of money to use it.
It doesn’t save us much, before a new type of fuel was created. We just paying that amount of money for researches on testings this new type of fuel. High tech fuel = High fuel price.
I would not pay high expectation on E85 as there’s no formal encourangement from our gov yet.
I guess they just don’t want to let the national car end so fast…
Improve public transportation system.
Cire is right.
The answer is right in front of us. Don’t believe me? Play Sid Meir’s Civ IV! :)
Seriously, simple people think that an alternative fuel is the answer. Whether its H2, NGV or Biofuel. It’s the holy grail of power consumption. Sorry to bust your bubble buddy; its not. They are trying to solve the problem by creating more problems. Whatever fuel they are thinking is not self sustaining and are non renewable.
Everybody is trying to elude the fact that we need to be more efficient in handling our power resources. No matter what you say about electricity it is still more efficient to use it as a generator is efficient in making use of the power in a hydrocarbon and turning it into another form of power. No other form of transportation is viably more efficient in handling large amount of people other than an electric train. Well, you don’t expect people to board a ship to work do you?
I read about the USA subsidizing corn planting in order to produce alternative bio-fuel(ethanol mainly). Large acres of farmland have been converted into corn farms and the farmers are raking in millions of Dollars. As in Thailand, they are much far sighted than us, partly because they have to import petroleum and this has eroded a big chunk of their reserves, unlike Malaysia where Petronas is making a fortune. Planting tapioca to produce ethanol should be a good move in Malaysia. The Bolehland has lost out to Thailand in terms of automobile Industry producing capacity where the major world class car makers have invested billions of dollars and it has become the Detroit of the East. While the Bolehland Guomen is always short sighted. The Great Mahafiraun comes up with brilliant idea to produce so-called low-quality national cars, and thus engulfing billions of litres of petrol yearly. The hard working rakyat’s blood and sweat money have been utilised to pay up expensive car loans with unreasonably high interest , enriching the greedy financial institutions. I wonder why the Guomen never bother to use the 4.4 Billions saved from the petroleum subsidy to improve the public transport system which they have promised (may be purposely in order to force Bolehland people to purchase national cars). The Great Mahafiraun also came out with an AP system and hence making a few selected ones to become multi-millionaires, the so-called successful entrepreneurs. What a rot and what kind of policy makers are these? Hopefully the Bolehland Federal Guomen can come out with a bold and far-sighted move to produce petrol like the E85 as reported by Paul in the above post. We have plenty of idle land and plenty of jobless graduates. The Guomen should provide land and fund for those who are interested (like what the US Guomen did to help the corn planters) to become tapioca planters and set up factory to produce ethanol and hence the E85.
By the way, the Toyota and Honda have come out with hybrid cars that use electricity and petrol. The Toyota Prius is a very successful model but the car is too expensive. Why don’t the BN Guomen negotiate with Toyota and Honda in order to set up factories in Malaysia to produce these cars? The people will be benefited and we can even export them to other countries. Then the problem of ethanol causing environmental hazards and food prices to escalate can be minimized.
Don’t worry, electric cars are coming, batteries are almost ready, big players like Nissan and VW have announced all electric cars. Electricity? Solar panel prices are coming down with new players coming in.
The future will be small electric cars for daily commute and petrol powered MPV/SUV for weekends…
Well I am not sure whether u guys have read the first few copy of Topgear that writes about environment stuff, Ethanol or alcohol based Biofuel does not need to be made of sugarcane. There is a fruit, not edible i supposed, can be used to produce bio ethanol fuel, i hope this information helps.
mokkf82, frankly, i find your statement unnecessary, and ridiculous
“I would not pay high expectation on E85 as there’s no formal encourangement from our gov yet.
I guess they just don’t want to let the national car end so fast…”
what has a national car company got to do with govt. legislation?
proton is a car company that does its own R&D, if E85 use is encouraged by our govt, proton will definitely launch a car to run on E85.. why will they “END” as you said?
“gonggok”, solar energry is still not feasible yet.. you need thousands of hectares of solar panels to generate the power of 1 regular oil burning refinery today.. and do you have so much land for that? unless of course we go nuclear….
mattyboy said,
June 3, 2008 @ 10:52 pm
4G63T
Your statement abut E85 been less efficient is only party true. It is true in the case of an engine designied to be ‘flexi’ in that it can run on anthing from 100% petrol to E85. The compromise of compression ratios doesn’t allow E85 to operate at max efficiency.
———
You will still need to burn MORE litres of E85 regardless if the vehicle is Flexfuel or 100% E85 due to E85’s energy content per litre. Which is less than gasoline.
BMW,
“what has a national car company got to do with govt. legislation? ”
It does, if the big wigs of such company are also involved in the running of the government. If this wasn’t true, it wont be in this sorry state now.. The government is more unlikely to legislate laws that are unfavourable to said company due to its “influence”
Many car companies already have Flexfuel engines and most can be deployed easily. Not having such an engine ready is situation that is disadvantage for such a company. I’m sure someone would be lobying in the background not to bring E85 until “they” are ready.
Not saying solar will replace everything but it just might recharge your car. Look at the solar car racers solar panels maybe 10 by 10 say 100 sq feet. Replace your normal terrace house roof with solar panels say 20 by 50 – thats 1000 sq feet. That should be more than enough to charge your electric car and some for home use. Remember the car won’t be running to whole day – but the sun will. Solar panels generate electricity even during cloudy days – just less of it.
Woohoo so Proton is the one stopping E85? That’s just a lie. Come on. E85 doesn’t need some miracle engines. You just need to replace certain parts like injectors and sensors. The companies that supply Proton with current parts can also supply those with E85 compliant parts – it’s not rocket science…
It’s the oil companies that need to invest a lot of money in their gas stations that you should look out for…
yearh put all the blame at proton in every post…so lame…this post not evens not state anything about proton…n to say that proton is in sorry state rite now is a statement that come from a frustrated person that cannot buy a imported so called branded car at cheaper price…its a fact that p1 is improving…n they started to do well overseas…back to the topic…yup it not rocket science to produce flex fuel engine..the efficiencies of the fuel is the problem…many r&d must be done to get the right formula especially to make the production of fuel in mass quantity without affecting to much to surrounding and environment…its take time…food change to oil is not a good idea…find something else..
does toyota sells e85-capable cars ? toyota are more popular in thailand..
4G63T – you are missing my point, I dont dispute that 100% gasoline has a higher energy contant than E85, however the higher octane of E85 allows a much higher compression ratio which leads to a much more effiecient burn of the fuel thus converting more of the potential energy into kinetic energy. This is only the case for an engine designed ONLY for E85 though, if you fueled it with petrol it would knock under compression. This more efficient burn negates the lower energy content giving roughly equal fuel economy – the arugment is largely academic as most cars are not going to be optomised to run only on E85 but on a mix, which gives the very lower economy you rightly mention.
Oh how I do enjoy a good old heated debate :)
Some idiot is trying to blame the current government for all this high prices and loss of investment. Thinking that all that matters in an economy is the auto industry. Comparing with Thailand which only has 3 sources of foreign exchange; rice, cars and the oldest profession in the world.
Are they famous for making anything else? That’s what they are good at. So let them be. Let us continue making silicon wafers, integrated circuits, hard disks, solar panels, optoelectronic components, marine vessels, FPSOs, value added stuff that brings in more profit than assembling a car could ever make without having to intepret squiggly letters or desecrating more of our jungles.
Not really. Malaysia may lead in electronics on foreign inverstment is because of the instability that Thailand always experience (country of coup). But they are now slowly catching up. Takes time, but they will over take us in time. They are today know at Detroit of Asia. We were used to be know as silicon valley of asia, producing most electronics, chips, etc outside the United States (More then Taiwan and Japan) but not anymore. Honestly, Thailands foreign investment policies are behind singapores with us being 3rd. The introduction of E85 in Thailand is most probably the first step in making Thailand the hub for ethonol producing country (with foreign investors coming in) in south east asia.
mattyboy said,
June 4, 2008 @ 5:22 pm
4G63T – you are missing my point, I dont dispute that 100% gasoline has a higher energy contant than E85, however the higher octane of E85 allows a much higher compression ratio which leads to a much more effiecient burn of the fuel thus converting more of the potential energy into kinetic energy.
—–
Fair enough. So…..when are we getting variable compression engines like the SAAB concept like few years back? :)
then the G should open up the auto market?? dont let this Auto market hold us back.
Fuel types: the pros and cons
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=37515&IsPgd=0