http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=37515&IsPgd=0

4G63T – you are missing my point, I dont dispute that 100% gasoline has a higher energy contant than E85, however the higher octane of E85 allows a much higher compression ratio which leads to a much more effiecient burn of the fuel thus converting more of the potential energy into kinetic energy.
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Fair enough. So…..when are we getting variable compression engines like the SAAB concept like few years back?

Are they famous for making anything else? That’s what they are good at. So let them be. Let us continue making silicon wafers, integrated circuits, hard disks, solar panels, optoelectronic components, marine vessels, FPSOs, value added stuff that brings in more profit than assembling a car could ever make without having to intepret squiggly letters or desecrating more of our jungles.

Woohoo so Proton is the one stopping E85? That’s just a lie. Come on. E85 doesn’t need some miracle engines. You just need to replace certain parts like injectors and sensors. The companies that supply Proton with current parts can also supply those with E85 compliant parts – it’s not rocket science…

It’s the oil companies that need to invest a lot of money in their gas stations that you should look out for…

4G63T

Your statement abut E85 been less efficient is only party true. It is true in the case of an engine designied to be ‘flexi’ in that it can run on anthing from 100% petrol to E85. The compromise of compression ratios doesn’t allow E85 to operate at max efficiency.

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You will still need to burn MORE litres of E85 regardless if the vehicle is Flexfuel or 100% E85 due to E85’s energy content per litre. Which is less than gasoline.

BMW,
“what has a national car company got to do with govt. legislation? ”

It does, if the big wigs of such company are also involved in the running of the government. If this wasn’t true, it wont be in this sorry state now.. The government is more unlikely to legislate laws that are unfavourable to said company due to its “influence”

Many car companies already have Flexfuel engines and most can be deployed easily. Not having such an engine ready is situation that is disadvantage for such a company. I’m sure someone would be lobying in the background not to bring E85 until “they” are ready.

“I would not pay high expectation on E85 as there’s no formal encourangement from our gov yet.
I guess they just don’t want to let the national car end so fast…”

what has a national car company got to do with govt. legislation?

proton is a car company that does its own R&D, if E85 use is encouraged by our govt, proton will definitely launch a car to run on E85.. why will they “END” as you said?

“gonggok”, solar energry is still not feasible yet.. you need thousands of hectares of solar panels to generate the power of 1 regular oil burning refinery today.. and do you have so much land for that? unless of course we go nuclear….

The future will be small electric cars for daily commute and petrol powered MPV/SUV for weekends…

The answer is right in front of us. Don’t believe me? Play Sid Meir’s Civ IV!
Seriously, simple people think that an alternative fuel is the answer. Whether its H2, NGV or Biofuel. It’s the holy grail of power consumption. Sorry to bust your bubble buddy; its not. They are trying to solve the problem by creating more problems. Whatever fuel they are thinking is not self sustaining and are non renewable.

Everybody is trying to elude the fact that we need to be more efficient in handling our power resources. No matter what you say about electricity it is still more efficient to use it as a generator is efficient in making use of the power in a hydrocarbon and turning it into another form of power. No other form of transportation is viably more efficient in handling large amount of people other than an electric train. Well, you don’t expect people to board a ship to work do you?

but whatever it is, to blame our fuel problems on proton is definitely a new low. i suppose we can blame rising food prices, low min. wage, loss of batu puteh..etc. on proton as well while we’re at it if it makes us feel better.

what we need is a progressive govt, willing to make tough choices (painful or otherwise) that will benefit the country in the near future and after that. unfortunately for us, they are too embroiled in power and maintaining their way of life to realise what the rest of the world is doing.

in this respect, proton is doing much better. at least it realises it has no chance of surviving by concentrating too much on the domestic market, and now looks to exports for long term survival. If overseas markets push for E85 use, Im pretty sure there will be E85 running protons.

E85 can be part of a solution if the resources needed to source it is managed to prevent further loss of our natural resources.

Still, alternative power such as wind-sun-water is the real solution backed up with eletric power transportation.

Hybrids are a way to go especially in Thailand with their perpetual traffic jams. They are the one step towards full eletric power and money can then be invested into enhancing the power grid and alternative power sources. E85 may be truly more effective in combination and possibly more efficient – you still cant beat oil.

This will pave the way to a day where you drive to work and plug in your car at a roadside or carpark powerpoint. Or go to Starbucks and enjoy both free wifi and eletric charging.

The situation regarding food prices is more complicated then one portrayed above. Global climate change affecting crops, oil affecting transportation costs, shortsighted acceptance of biofuels and the movement of money into the commodities market from other securities (such as mortgages, stocks, bonds, monetary exchange) all contribute to the problem.

Biofuels do have an ecological and economic impact:

Even if we argue that the impact is not an immediate one, in the long term, it will be one. The crops needed to produce biofuels is the same crop used to feed people. Any expansion of agriculture is most often at the cost of forests – the primary, land-based and most significant carbon absorbers of our planet.

Biofuels are not the solution, its a problem:

In Brazil, ever greater amounts of the Amazon and other large rainforests have been cleared to fuel the country’s increasing demand for biofuel. The ecological and climate impact is doubled because forests are the primary carbon absorbers and E85 fuels still emit carbon besides being up to 30% poorer in fuel consumption on flex-fuel engines.

Worse, E85 has higher emissions of acetaldehyde – a toxic pollutant and possible carcinogen.

Someone above mention that 100% E85 engines are more efficient than Flex-fuel E85 engines – this is true, IN THEORY those engines would be more power efficient. But this does not mean it is more fuel efficient. Do show us a car that is 100% E85 and you’ll find a big mistake. When you take in the full impact of E85, it is simply less efficient than gasoline based on the ecological, economic and social impact.

Regarding Thailand:

Thailand’s attempt at promoting flex-fuel is mis-informed at least, foolish at worse. Where do they think they are going to get the flex fuel? Who is going to pay for the development of infrastructure (estimated at USD200,000 per petrol station in the US)?

Can you imagine? The Thai government is going to REDUCE their tax income from cars in order to SPEND MORE money to upgrade the petrol infrastructure and import E85 fuels! Where’s the sense in that? Who is going to pay?

Its the tax-payer. As if the price of food is so cheap these days.

Proton can adjust campro to run on E85, it’s not rocket science. But bio-fuels are a scam. We tried with bio-diesel – but the problem is that sugar/palm oil are getting too expensive. People talk like these things are free and unwanted. Why burn it in your car when you can sell it as food.

The answer to higher fuel prices is not some miracle technical holy grail, the answer is just to drive a smaller car…

if you see the example of brazil, their country is very serious in pushing for biofuel and they are indeed very successful because their govt was very serious about it and they have abundant of crops to produce ethanol. the fact that most of bazil’s petroleum reserves are in the deep water area (meaning it’s more expensive to produce and that made Petrobras the leader in deepwater) might also have something to do with the push for flex fuel…

i just hope our country can use what we have as an advantage and help us to rely less and less to oil….

Your statement abut E85 been less efficient is only party true. It is true in the case of an engine designied to be ‘flexi’ in that it can run on anthing from 100% petrol to E85. The compromise of compression ratios doesn’t allow E85 to operate at max efficiency.

On the other hand, if the engine is designed to run only on E85 then it becomes much more efficient than when in a flexi set up.

Since most cars than can use E85 to date are flexible on which fuel they use then yes they do burn less efficiently

Which means you will go less kms per L of E85. Which also means you will end up burning more of it if you maintain your daily mileage.

Biofuels leading to food shortage is definately a present and future worry as more farmland is converted to going fuel crops. However, biofuels can be made by many parts of plants that we can’t eat. The parts of the plant that we can’t eat can be used for biofuel. It really depends on management of these industries.

I’ve been useing “gasohol” for years (but only 10% ethanol content) and you can already notice the mileage loss. The good thing is, they have better pump octane rating which run great on tuned turbo cars.

As for us running biofuels. Good luck. Until proton comes up with a biodiesel or flexfuel engine, you can kiss this concept goodbye. Its pathetic that the entire automotive industry and the country itself is hindered by incompetents in the government and its GLCs