Comments on: Proton and Perodua vendors push for higher excise duty for MPVs and SUVs http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/ Paul Tan on the Automotive Industry Sun, 27 May 2012 01:55:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: kingbrutal http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175809 kingbrutal Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:44:08 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175809 people... people... :D the proposal is still a proposal, albiet done in a bad taste. and the people that is making the proposal is the PVA and KVP, not Proton and Perodua. (indirectly maybe but who knows?) so we should cry foul to PVA and KVP for being insensitive to the plight of rakyat now. it's like they go shitting everywhere and ask others to clean up for them. enough is enough, if they want to succeed, bring up the quality and reduced cost, then fight head-on with foreign brand, show how Malaysia Boleh they are. Or they just want to cry foul before competing because they know their product is kaput? Proton and Perodua should screen their vendors, removed all the parasites and retain those who perform. so what if a few hundred or thousand lose their job, it's not giving them job if their output is like that. for the good of a thousand or for the good of 30millions? I'll choose the later. people… people… :D

the proposal is still a proposal, albiet done in a bad taste. and the people that is making the proposal is the PVA and KVP, not Proton and Perodua. (indirectly maybe but who knows?) so we should cry foul to PVA and KVP for being insensitive to the plight of rakyat now. it’s like they go shitting everywhere and ask others to clean up for them. enough is enough, if they want to succeed, bring up the quality and reduced cost, then fight head-on with foreign brand, show how Malaysia Boleh they are. Or they just want to cry foul before competing because they know their product is kaput? Proton and Perodua should screen their vendors, removed all the parasites and retain those who perform. so what if a few hundred or thousand lose their job, it’s not giving them job if their output is like that. for the good of a thousand or for the good of 30millions? I’ll choose the later.

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]]> By: tebuan http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175760 tebuan Wed, 13 Aug 2008 09:16:45 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175760 trustgtr, Your point on decision which is not beneficiary to proton as per part price is more on political and economical bias. Imported automotive as you said is cheaper and much more high quality compared to local made but if proton a pure private company, that what they should do, import it as it is much cheaper and higher quality. One must remember Proton exist to spur the heavy industrial industries and to create bigger and higher value chain. Why did proton wasted they money on developing vendors and create their own supply chain? Easy answer, that is what government want proton to do. Proton is to withhold Government policy especially the creation of local SME and vendor. Proton had created more vendor and developed local supplier (which most of them really take for granted the opportunity given). This in the bigger picture will create more economic activities and some small number of this vendor efficient and become a major player in the automotive industries. Look at bigger pictures my friend, although proton making less profit with local part which cost higher, the benefit to overall economy is undeniable. Yeah, the price of car is too high but at least our economy is still moving and more and more are invested internally. FDI is good but internal or domestic investment is also good. Our economy are much more diversified. If you are government you will look at the bigger pictures rather than few point of view (ie, the net profit of proton or price of car). The bigger pictures is to promote and encourage economic growth by spurring economic activities especially on automotive part via vendor programme which will bring economic growth as a whole. How many percent of economic growth is their main concern. Cheaper and higher quality car doesn’t mean high standard of living, reduced in poverty, low unemployment rate, increase in GDP or PPP, low inflation rate, distribution of wealth and so on.. Like your parent when you are child, they think about your overall wellbeing rather than pleasing your specific need. Get what I mean folks? Having said that i would agree with the point that the vendor need to buckle up and increase quality. trustgtr,
Your point on decision which is not beneficiary to proton as per part price is more on political and economical bias. Imported automotive as you said is cheaper and much more high quality compared to local made but if proton a pure private company, that what they should do, import it as it is much cheaper and higher quality. One must remember Proton exist to spur the heavy industrial industries and to create bigger and higher value chain. Why did proton wasted they money on developing vendors and create their own supply chain? Easy answer, that is what government want proton to do. Proton is to withhold Government policy especially the creation of local SME and vendor. Proton had created more vendor and developed local supplier (which most of them really take for granted the opportunity given). This in the bigger picture will create more economic activities and some small number of this vendor efficient and become a major player in the automotive industries.
Look at bigger pictures my friend, although proton making less profit with local part which cost higher, the benefit to overall economy is undeniable. Yeah, the price of car is too high but at least our economy is still moving and more and more are invested internally. FDI is good but internal or domestic investment is also good. Our economy are much more diversified.
If you are government you will look at the bigger pictures rather than few point of view (ie, the net profit of proton or price of car). The bigger pictures is to promote and encourage economic growth by spurring economic activities especially on automotive part via vendor programme which will bring economic growth as a whole. How many percent of economic growth is their main concern. Cheaper and higher quality car doesn’t mean high standard of living, reduced in poverty, low unemployment rate, increase in GDP or PPP, low inflation rate, distribution of wealth and so on.. Like your parent when you are child, they think about your overall wellbeing rather than pleasing your specific need. Get what I mean folks?
Having said that i would agree with the point that the vendor need to buckle up and increase quality.

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]]> By: 3S http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175758 3S Wed, 13 Aug 2008 09:06:13 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175758 i have nothing to say or talk about P1 and P2... i juz can wish good luck to those who already bought P1 and P2. i juz wonder if P1 and P2 never exist ...the no of ppl died in car accident in Malaysia whether can be reduce or not.....? think about it..!! i have nothing to say or talk about P1 and P2…
i juz can wish good luck to those who already bought P1 and P2.

i juz wonder if P1 and P2 never exist …the no of ppl died in car accident in Malaysia whether can be reduce or not…..?
think about it..!!

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]]> By: shaif http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175755 shaif Wed, 13 Aug 2008 08:30:16 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175755 Actually my praise to Proton to be one of car manufacturer in the world. Not every country could do that for some reason, but Proton is said to be a catalyst to propel Malaysia to industrial nation. However, along that line, quality of Proton become jeorpadised because of the bad vendor. Of course they are good vendor but as whole, Prton image has been tarnished by this bad apple. So mr tebuan, its true that Proton give jobs to many malaysian either directly or indirectly. It is a fact that Proton helps the country economically. But it must not neglect the very basic foundation of customer support here. I bet some of the first owner of Proton when facing some product quality issue with Proton, they will change their preferences to T or H model which even it higher prices but it comes with peace of mind. Having said that, I want to buy next model of Proton, but somehow their waja CPS still lacking of good fit and finish...the gap is like 6 years ago...so what R&D, management and vendor do all this time....kira duit kah.. Wake up Proton, be fair with Malaysian who spend money on car priced on par with low cost housing scheme. Except that house hold and appreviate their value..Proton...nothing to say.! Actually my praise to Proton to be one of car manufacturer in the world. Not every country could do that for some reason, but Proton is said to be a catalyst to propel Malaysia to industrial nation.
However, along that line, quality of Proton become jeorpadised because of the bad vendor. Of course they are good vendor but as whole, Prton image has been tarnished by this bad apple.
So mr tebuan, its true that Proton give jobs to many malaysian either directly or indirectly. It is a fact that Proton helps the country economically. But it must not neglect the very basic foundation of customer support here. I bet some of the first owner of Proton when facing some product quality issue with Proton, they will change their preferences to T or H model which even it higher prices but it comes with peace of mind.
Having said that, I want to buy next model of Proton, but somehow their waja CPS still lacking of good fit and finish…the gap is like 6 years ago…so what R&D, management and vendor do all this time….kira duit kah..
Wake up Proton, be fair with Malaysian who spend money on car priced on par with low cost housing scheme. Except that house hold and appreviate their value..Proton…nothing to say.!

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]]> By: ignas http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175751 ignas Wed, 13 Aug 2008 06:49:57 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175751 well i know we OVER-paid our national cars, and most of the profit single channeled to cronies. so i suppose its good in a way because it ended up to our malaysian so they can spend lavishly overseas, right? thou i have no actual proven facts to back this. well i know we OVER-paid our national cars, and most of the profit single channeled to cronies. so i suppose its good in a way because it ended up to our malaysian so they can spend lavishly overseas, right? thou i have no actual proven facts to back this.

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]]> By: Roti Naan http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175733 Roti Naan Wed, 13 Aug 2008 01:55:47 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175733 Thumbs up to OpenMind Thumbs up to

OpenMind

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]]> By: tebuan http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175730 tebuan Wed, 13 Aug 2008 01:42:23 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175730 Sorry to comment on those car lover who are over quality product. There is point by protecting P1, government is simply denying everybody choise. Looking at the bigger picture, maybe we are being oppressed with artificially high price of imported car but car is just one part of our life. Talking on economic point of view which is obviously affect everybody 100%, in extreme example,would you driving 40k Toyota Altis with high price of economic good and high inflation and high price of fuel? For those who said, protecting P1 is harming the country in long run, please do give me reason why. Economically??. How in God earth a company which spend million and billion on capital expenditure (plant,machinery, r&d and so on) will bring negative effect to economy as a whole. The company who employ 8k direct and another 100k indirectly working for proton in this country. Proton one of the biggest investor in capital expenditure. One question could everybody drive BM, altis and accord by today if proton never exist? Are our economy and standard of living will be the same if proton never exist before? Sorry to comment on those car lover who are over quality product. There is point by protecting P1, government is simply denying everybody choise. Looking at the bigger picture, maybe we are being oppressed with artificially high price of imported car but car is just one part of our life. Talking on economic point of view which is obviously affect everybody 100%, in extreme example,would you driving 40k Toyota Altis with high price of economic good and high inflation and high price of fuel? For those who said, protecting P1 is harming the country in long run, please do give me reason why. Economically??. How in God earth a company which spend million and billion on capital expenditure (plant,machinery, r&d and so on) will bring negative effect to economy as a whole. The company who employ 8k direct and another 100k indirectly working for proton in this country. Proton one of the biggest investor in capital expenditure. One question could everybody drive BM, altis and accord by today if proton never exist? Are our economy and standard of living will be the same if proton never exist before?

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]]> By: tebuan http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175726 tebuan Wed, 13 Aug 2008 01:11:33 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175726 Sorry Open minded, i would have disagree on the 3rd point. Where you said more local component for local car doesn’t mean better economic cycles. Basic economic principle said capital expenditure bring in the multiplier effect. Less local component mean less capital used for machinery which is synonym with capital expenditure. How are you going to explain imported part bring in the same result as local component used as obviously there will be no investment on the capital or machinery itself. Exported automotive parts which mean more money going out and that is obviously hurt the cash flow and somehow affect the currency itself. Then there is factor of trade balance which obviously brings in more negative effect. Producing local component although it seem it is not bring any sense especially on competitive advantage theory but looking at the macro aspect of it, it will bring more jobs opportunity, better cash flow cycles and more economic activities. I don’t know where did you study your economy but your theory are obviously flawed. Example Spending RM 1,000 on capital expenditure (ie machinery and plant) will bring back about RM 7,000 back into the economy (i.e our multiplier effect are said to be at 6 to 7 times). Spending 1,000.00 for labour (ie, staff working in foreign company) will never bring the same result as spending same amount on machinery and plant for production of local component. Get what i mean? Sorry Open minded,
i would have disagree on the 3rd point. Where you said more local component for local car doesn’t mean better economic cycles. Basic economic principle said capital expenditure bring in the multiplier effect. Less local component mean less capital used for machinery which is synonym with capital expenditure. How are you going to explain imported part bring in the same result as local component used as obviously there will be no investment on the capital or machinery itself. Exported automotive parts which mean more money going out and that is obviously hurt the cash flow and somehow affect the currency itself. Then there is factor of trade balance which obviously brings in more negative effect. Producing local component although it seem it is not bring any sense especially on competitive advantage theory but looking at the macro aspect of it, it will bring more jobs opportunity, better cash flow cycles and more economic activities. I don’t know where did you study your economy but your theory are obviously flawed. Example Spending RM 1,000 on capital expenditure (ie machinery and plant) will bring back about RM 7,000 back into the economy (i.e our multiplier effect are said to be at 6 to 7 times). Spending 1,000.00 for labour (ie, staff working in foreign company) will never bring the same result as spending same amount on machinery and plant for production of local component. Get what i mean?

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]]> By: noactiontalkonly http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175695 noactiontalkonly Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:24:31 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175695 bmpower said, August 12, 2008 @ 3:45 pm Vios 2004 vs vios dugong 2008. Use the same Engine!!! ----------------------------------------------------------------but at least toyota don't 'force' you to buy their products! bmpower said,
August 12, 2008 @ 3:45 pm

Vios 2004 vs vios dugong 2008.
Use the same Engine!!!
—————————————————————-but at least toyota don’t ‘force’ you to buy their products!

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]]> By: kody http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175694 kody Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:14:59 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175694 wahlaueh... 'The Proton Vendors Association (PVA) and Kelab Vendor Perodua (KVP)' again i believe frm... the Pa La la la la....cronies... wahlaueh…

‘The Proton Vendors Association (PVA) and Kelab Vendor Perodua (KVP)’ again i believe frm… the Pa La la la la….cronies…

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]]> By: ckcheong http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175693 ckcheong Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:01:52 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175693 My opinion is that all malaysian deserves to enjoy better quality product. By pricing protecting P1, the government is simply denying everyone the choice. If P1 product is competitive, good quality and reliable, then I believe most malaysian will receive it with an open heart. But contrary, it is the other way around. By protecting P1 is actually harming it in the long run. At the end of the day, the rakyat loses and P1 loses. I don't see any win situations for the past 20 plus year of P1 operations. We are not talking about the desire to own luxury cars like Merc or BMs. Regular toyata, honda and etc are just normal family sedan in other countries, but in malaysia, these are priced so high due to exhorbitant taxes and duties until almost the same as price of buying a house. Fair? People buying proton during the early years of its operations due to support for local product, I believe, but when P1 loses badly in quality, innovation and this has made a majority of consumers lost faith in the brand. There after, people buy P1 because of no choice as other brands are out of regular rakyat's affordability. My opinion is that all malaysian deserves to enjoy better quality product. By pricing protecting P1, the government is simply denying everyone the choice. If P1 product is competitive, good quality and reliable, then I believe most malaysian will receive it with an open heart. But contrary, it is the other way around. By protecting P1 is actually harming it in the long run. At the end of the day, the rakyat loses and P1 loses. I don’t see any win situations for the past 20 plus year of P1 operations. We are not talking about the desire to own luxury cars like Merc or BMs. Regular toyata, honda and etc are just normal family sedan in other countries, but in malaysia, these are priced so high due to exhorbitant taxes and duties until almost the same as price of buying a house. Fair? People buying proton during the early years of its operations due to support for local product, I believe, but when P1 loses badly in quality, innovation and this has made a majority of consumers lost faith in the brand. There after, people buy P1 because of no choice as other brands are out of regular rakyat’s affordability.

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]]> By: ignas http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175690 ignas Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:19:44 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175690 well said OpenMind. well said OpenMind.

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]]> By: OpenMind http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175688 OpenMind Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:36:57 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175688 Some did mentioned about giving them chances and argue that this is a better move from the economic perspective for Malaysia. I dont think so, firstly, expensive car indirectly forced longer lifespan among user (unwillingly since cannot afford a new one so frequently). Thus, having lower cost car (with less duty) might trigger shorter lifespan of car (better for the environment). Secondly, you can only grow if you are in serious competition, increasing the duty for MPV/SUV will of course scare away some potential foreign car buyer but that doesn't mean they will buy P1/P2 car. Thirdly, even we have more local components for local car, but that doesn't mean better economic cycle internally. This is not a direct reflection of how economy principles are working. Just on the human resource perspective, most if not all of the people working in Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Kia, Hyundai, etc are pure Malaysia who are paying good amount of tax to the Government. If P1 or P2 is more successful then you will expect more people from foreign car dealer, service, salesman crossing over to P1/P2. So the effect is rather neutralized. Also, all the supporting industry still survive or undergo minor restructuring. Bare in mind, this is gloabl economy, without the scale, no company can survive, and pls calculate how many company can survive by just supplying to P1 or P2 with competition cost structure (that would benefits P1 or P2). A lot of people argue that P1 and P2 are product reasonable car and I am not going to argue about this. But, let me post another question, giving the price difference is lesser than 2k-3k (if not same price) between a Persona 1.6 HL and a Toyota Vios 1.5G or a Hondy City 1.5 or a Nissan Latio 1.6, guess how many would end up buying the Persona. YOu may argue that perception is wrong, branding is not strong, etc..etc....BUT this is reality. So, meaning to say that over the years, P1 and P2 have not been able to convince people about their unique selling point, be it the service availability, the performance, the quality, the brand, the whatever..... Some did mentioned about giving them chances and argue that this is a better move from the economic perspective for Malaysia. I dont think so, firstly, expensive car indirectly forced longer lifespan among user (unwillingly since cannot afford a new one so frequently). Thus, having lower cost car (with less duty) might trigger shorter lifespan of car (better for the environment).

Secondly, you can only grow if you are in serious competition, increasing the duty for MPV/SUV will of course scare away some potential foreign car buyer but that doesn’t mean they will buy P1/P2 car.

Thirdly, even we have more local components for local car, but that doesn’t mean better economic cycle internally. This is not a direct reflection of how economy principles are working. Just on the human resource perspective, most if not all of the people working in Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Kia, Hyundai, etc are pure Malaysia who are paying good amount of tax to the Government. If P1 or P2 is more successful then you will expect more people from foreign car dealer, service, salesman crossing over to P1/P2. So the effect is rather neutralized. Also, all the supporting industry still survive or undergo minor restructuring. Bare in mind, this is gloabl economy, without the scale, no company can survive, and pls calculate how many company can survive by just supplying to P1 or P2 with competition cost structure (that would benefits P1 or P2).

A lot of people argue that P1 and P2 are product reasonable car and I am not going to argue about this. But, let me post another question, giving the price difference is lesser than 2k-3k (if not same price) between a Persona 1.6 HL and a Toyota Vios 1.5G or a Hondy City 1.5 or a Nissan Latio 1.6, guess how many would end up buying the Persona. YOu may argue that perception is wrong, branding is not strong, etc..etc….BUT this is reality. So, meaning to say that over the years, P1 and P2 have not been able to convince people about their unique selling point, be it the service availability, the performance, the quality, the brand, the whatever…..

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]]> By: ignas http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175683 ignas Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:06:29 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175683 thanks torque. now i wonder what does those proton supporters have to say now. its very obvious that majority of us are being cornered and conned. @#$& Proton and those fat maggots in the G, parasites of the malay land. thanks torque. now i wonder what does those proton supporters have to say now. its very obvious that majority of us are being cornered and conned. @#$& Proton and those fat maggots in the G, parasites of the malay land.

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]]> By: Maddy-Kun http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175679 Maddy-Kun Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:11:23 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175679 satria neo?? u forget 1 satria neo?? u forget 1

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]]> By: tikus http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175674 tikus Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:47:42 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175674 P1 and P2 go fly kite. Danm cheapo P1 and P2 go fly kite. Danm cheapo

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]]> By: osh_kosh http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175667 osh_kosh Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:19:12 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175667 it's nicer if we all can stop buying P1 & P2 car.. choose a 2nd hand foreign car instead of new P1 or P2.. if this proposal get aproval then screw them, i've decided, enuff is enuff.. sick of all this bullshit decision.. fuck them.. fuck G.. it’s nicer if we all can stop buying P1 & P2 car.. choose a 2nd hand foreign car instead of new P1 or P2.. if this proposal get aproval then screw them, i’ve decided, enuff is enuff.. sick of all this bullshit decision.. fuck them.. fuck G..

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]]> By: Huz http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175666 Huz Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:07:48 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175666 Jie : what to do..no more peace of mind. Jie : what to do..no more peace of mind.

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]]> By: Jie http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175657 Jie Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:52:19 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175657 Shit, will this then affect the prices of Stream and Wish? Does that mean I should buy them asap? I thought I wanted to wait until Proton MPV's launch before deciding which one to buy. Shit, will this then affect the prices of Stream and Wish? Does that mean I should buy them asap?

I thought I wanted to wait until Proton MPV’s launch before deciding which one to buy.

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]]> By: ALPINA BMW http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175654 ALPINA BMW Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:50:21 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175654 fuck off proton fuck off proton

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]]> By: bmpower http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175647 bmpower Tue, 12 Aug 2008 07:45:04 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175647 *** 4. Persona - a little too late, a car that should have been built back in ‘04..carries the poor image from the gen2 where it is based..Engines can be a lot better, a decent car nevertheless.. *** Vios 2004 vs vios dugong 2008. Use the same Engine!!! ***
4. Persona – a little too late, a car that should have been built back in ‘04..carries the poor image from the gen2 where it is based..Engines can be a lot better, a decent car nevertheless..
***

Vios 2004 vs vios dugong 2008.
Use the same Engine!!!

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]]> By: Huz http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175643 Huz Tue, 12 Aug 2008 07:20:15 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175643 torque : thnks mate :p Im just so pissed of that our G seems to manipulate us like this. I dont mind paying for taxes and craps. Everyone pays them. But with the things that they are doing, I feel more like being robbed. Anyway, the saying goes with "Malaysia Boleh". And to BMW's new boss : "Welcome to BolehLand!" torque : thnks mate :p Im just so pissed of that our G seems to manipulate us like this. I dont mind paying for taxes and craps. Everyone pays them. But with the things that they are doing, I feel more like being robbed. Anyway, the saying goes with “Malaysia Boleh”.

And to BMW’s new boss : “Welcome to BolehLand!”

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]]> By: trustgtr http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175640 trustgtr Tue, 12 Aug 2008 06:56:15 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175640 back in '96, i was part of a team which did a study and proposed that proton would be given the freedom to source components from suppliers from all over the world. We felt the G cannot build a automotive manufacturing and automotive vendors at the same time, proton should concentrate on engineering and assembling cars and buy components outside which are 50% cheaper and high quality until it has enough volume, until then a localized vendor program would be feasible. For example, components such as the water pump which was brought in from India by Autolec was 50% costlier than if proton were to buy from Aisin (japan) which makes millions of many sort of pumps for the auto industry plus at higher quality,power window components from Korea which are more than 60 % percent cheaper. However this went to deaf ears and proton went around spending it cash reserves into which deemed unnecessary instead of putting money into technological development locally,proton could even hire the best engineers and management team from japan or germany and push through some programs to develop itself with local engineers, but instead decided to spend for all the wrong reasons..today proton has a engineering team which are limited in their capabilities and still dependant on on other manufacturers to provide know how..here's a list of proton models that it has to offer and supposedly able to compete with other manufaturers.. 1. Savvy - engine and wiring harness from renault- maybe the only car reasonably built proton. 2. Saga - structure engineering ok but engines and drivetrain somehow a generation behind competitors..not as efficient as it should be. 3. Gen2 - Image destroyed by it poor build quality and low tech engine, even after several improvements the damage to its reputation is done. 4. Persona - a little too late, a car that should have been built back in '04..carries the poor image from the gen2 where it is based..Engines can be a lot better, a decent car nevertheless.. 5. Waja - 8 year old car which has only improve a little and suffer from poor fit and finish, again the campro should be better plus the latest facelift made the car looks worst..very dated model and should be replaced yesterday. 6. Perdana - a rebadge discontinued mitsu and considered absolete...sweet V6 though.. Campro engine - only engine that proton has..lotus developed twin cam 16 valve design is quite reliable however it machine which is a little rough at the edges..requires a leap in technology for increased efficiency and refinement.. Proton has ran out of time and do not have a proper lineup to compete and the rakyat has ran out of patience as well especially with the increase in price of essential goods which includes cars as well..we need to get rid of unnecessary burden and sacrificing for proton is no longer affordable.. back in ’96, i was part of a team which did a study and proposed that proton would be given the freedom to source components from suppliers from all over the world. We felt the G cannot build a automotive manufacturing and automotive vendors at the same time, proton should concentrate on engineering and assembling cars and buy components outside which are 50% cheaper and high quality until it has enough volume, until then a localized vendor program would be feasible. For example, components such as the water pump which was brought in from India by Autolec was 50% costlier than if proton were to buy from Aisin (japan) which makes millions of many sort of pumps for the auto industry plus at higher quality,power window components from Korea which are more than 60 % percent cheaper. However this went to deaf ears and proton went around spending it cash reserves into which deemed unnecessary instead of putting money into technological development locally,proton could even hire the best engineers and management team from japan or germany and push through some programs to develop itself with local engineers, but instead decided to spend for all the wrong reasons..today proton has a engineering team which are limited in their capabilities and still dependant on on other manufacturers to provide know how..here’s a list of proton models that it has to offer and supposedly able to compete with other manufaturers..

1. Savvy – engine and wiring harness from renault- maybe the only car reasonably built proton.

2. Saga – structure engineering ok but engines and drivetrain somehow a generation behind competitors..not as efficient as it should be.

3. Gen2 – Image destroyed by it poor build quality and low tech engine, even after several improvements the damage to its reputation is done.

4. Persona – a little too late, a car that should have been built back in ’04..carries the poor image from the gen2 where it is based..Engines can be a lot better, a decent car nevertheless..

5. Waja – 8 year old car which has only improve a little and suffer from poor fit and finish, again the campro should be better plus the latest facelift made the car looks worst..very dated model and should be replaced yesterday.

6. Perdana – a rebadge discontinued mitsu and considered absolete…sweet V6 though..

Campro engine – only engine that proton has..lotus developed twin cam 16 valve design is quite reliable however it machine which is a little rough at the edges..requires a leap in technology for increased efficiency and refinement..

Proton has ran out of time and do not have a proper lineup to compete and the rakyat has ran out of patience as well especially with the increase in price of essential goods which includes cars as well..we need to get rid of unnecessary burden and sacrificing for proton is no longer affordable..

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]]> By: osh_kosh http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175631 osh_kosh Tue, 12 Aug 2008 06:07:43 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175631 this is sickening... G promise to give money to them to improve & now this? check this --> http://paultan.org/archives/2008/04/18/rm400-million-for-proton-vendor-development/ now they r helping G --> "They say the government will benefit from such a move because of higher excise duty income, and the related authorities will also benefit from the simplicity of multiple vehicles being assigned a single tax category." very HELPFULL toward each other... both news with same conclusion, we'll screwed at the end this is sickening… G promise to give money to them to improve & now this?

check this –> http://paultan.org/archives/2008/04/18/rm400-million-for-proton-vendor-development/

now they r helping G –> “They say the government will benefit from such a move because of higher excise duty income, and the related authorities will also benefit from the simplicity of multiple vehicles being assigned a single tax category.”

very HELPFULL toward each other… both news with same conclusion, we’ll screwed at the end

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]]> By: Maddy-Kun http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175630 Maddy-Kun Tue, 12 Aug 2008 05:54:06 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175630 hurmm true true.. hurmm true true..

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]]> By: torque http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175626 torque Tue, 12 Aug 2008 05:22:51 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175626 I like it when you point out, “Kalau nak barang bagus, pegi la beli yang mahal punya!”. That is what we always hear in Malaysia. Towards Proton, it's not that we hate it but after more than 20 years...it's time for them to fight fair and give to the people the very best of quality. If they still need more years to be protected, then they simply will NEVER learn... I like it when you point out, “Kalau nak barang bagus, pegi la beli yang mahal punya!”. That is what we always hear in Malaysia. Towards Proton, it’s not that we hate it but after more than 20 years…it’s time for them to fight fair and give to the people the very best of quality. If they still need more years to be protected, then they simply will NEVER learn…

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]]> By: torque http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175624 torque Tue, 12 Aug 2008 05:15:25 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175624 To Huz, That's a very, very good comments! To Huz,

That’s a very, very good comments!

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]]> By: torque http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175623 torque Tue, 12 Aug 2008 05:12:37 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175623 After reading the news and few comments in this post, I GOT to agree with Ignas, Trustgtr, Dodgeviper88, Kingbrutal, Blaze, Shaif and others who thinks that such implementation WOULD ACTUALLY benefit some party (the cronies) rather then the whole Malaysian. To some like Maddy-Kun, I understand your view by seeing in different perspective when facing certain issue but don't you think the Malaysian people should HAVE their very own rights on what to do or purchase with their hard earn cash? Maddy-Kun, some of the voices here don't actually expresses their HATE towards Proton or Perodua but more of their FRUSTRATION towards the government's system which is by human rights...IS NOT FAIR!! Maddy-Kun, every country in this God given world had impose certain tax duty on any import cars but ONLY Malaysia have the world's most ridiculous cars tax ever been made!! Trustgtr point out the core problem in our automotive industries when he stated that the BMW's new boss commented "how surprised he was with our car prices and never seen anything like this anywhere else in the world". Maddy-Kun, I believe that God gave us a ONE chance to live in this world...to live the very best by doing good towards others and also to enjoy and experience the very best that the world have to offer. So, answer me this...doesn't we DESERVE the very best the world had to offer? OpenMind says it best with, "even the MP and Government Servant want to spend tax payer money to buy Merz E200, Camry, Accord, X-trial, etc at such pricing (after the tax)…."! If they could spend what is not theirs, doesn't we the Malaysian citizens have MORE rights to buy a better cars with OUR own money? As far as I can see...this 'higher excise duty' scheme will only benefit to ONE party and that is not...US! A merely citizen two cents...peace! :-) After reading the news and few comments in this post, I GOT to agree with Ignas, Trustgtr, Dodgeviper88, Kingbrutal, Blaze, Shaif and others who thinks that such implementation WOULD ACTUALLY benefit some party (the cronies) rather then the whole Malaysian. To some like Maddy-Kun, I understand your view by seeing in different perspective when facing certain issue but don’t you think the Malaysian people should HAVE their very own rights on what to do or purchase with their hard earn cash? Maddy-Kun, some of the voices here don’t actually expresses their HATE towards Proton or Perodua but more of their FRUSTRATION towards the government’s system which is by human rights…IS NOT FAIR!! Maddy-Kun, every country in this God given world had impose certain tax duty on any import cars but ONLY Malaysia have the world’s most ridiculous cars tax ever been made!! Trustgtr point out the core problem in our automotive industries when he stated that the BMW’s new boss commented “how surprised he was with our car prices and never seen anything like this anywhere else in the world”. Maddy-Kun, I believe that God gave us a ONE chance to live in this world…to live the very best by doing good towards others and also to enjoy and experience the very best that the world have to offer. So, answer me this…doesn’t we DESERVE the very best the world had to offer?

OpenMind says it best with, “even the MP and Government Servant want to spend tax payer money to buy Merz E200, Camry, Accord, X-trial, etc at such pricing (after the tax)….”! If they could spend what is not theirs, doesn’t we the Malaysian citizens have MORE rights to buy a better cars with OUR own money? As far as I can see…this ‘higher excise duty’ scheme will only benefit to ONE party and that is not…US! A merely citizen two cents…peace! :-)

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]]> By: trustgtr http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175622 trustgtr Tue, 12 Aug 2008 05:05:22 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175622 I actually believed in temporarily protecting our industry so that proton would have a chance to develop our own automotive technology to world standards. however, after a few years involvement in the process personally i found that proton was a place where excessive milking by several well connected people and was not a place where they were real technological development was happening. Quality got worse, most development jobs were subcontracted, proton got more and more distant from understanding consumer needs a and arrogance set in. For the first 20 years, Proton had no real focus, even their distribution system which are suppose to be their front line against foreign players were in disarray, competing each other instead of competitors..today, despite being better focused in its direction, proton seems to be playing catchup plus facing poor image problem from its own biggest market and supporters..the malaysian motorist. so much time and money has been lost through poor management and lack of direction and with free trade agreements implemented, M'sia as a country is affected badly through its failure to attract FDI in regards to automotive development to thailand whom are exporting millions of cars every year. M'sian's today are paying more than a third of their salary and up to nine years for a car just for the sake of proton..with fuel prices up, how much more does the rakyat need to sacrifice just to save a few?? I actually believed in temporarily protecting our industry so that proton would have a chance to develop our own automotive technology to world standards. however, after a few years involvement in the process personally i found that proton was a place where excessive milking by several well connected people and was not a place where they were real technological development was happening. Quality got worse, most development jobs were subcontracted, proton got more and more distant from understanding consumer needs a and arrogance set in. For the first 20 years, Proton had no real focus, even their distribution system which are suppose to be their front line against foreign players were in disarray, competing each other instead of competitors..today, despite being better focused in its direction, proton seems to be playing catchup plus facing poor image problem from its own biggest market and supporters..the malaysian motorist. so much time and money has been lost through poor management and lack of direction and with free trade agreements implemented, M’sia as a country is affected badly through its failure to attract FDI in regards to automotive development to thailand whom are exporting millions of cars every year. M’sian’s today are paying more than a third of their salary and up to nine years for a car just for the sake of proton..with fuel prices up, how much more does the rakyat need to sacrifice just to save a few??

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]]> By: alwayswishingforabettercar http://paultan.org/2008/08/11/proton-and-perodua-vendors-push-for-higher-excise-duty-for-mpv-and-suv/#comment-175615 alwayswishingforabettercar Tue, 12 Aug 2008 04:27:42 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=7132#comment-175615 ridiculous move. but not unexpected. put entire families in substandard suvs & mpvs and wait for the carnage to ensue! i really wouldn't mind it if i was paying the prices they ask and give me their export standard model. then i'd know it's a car i'd be able to rely on (like the humberside police force who sing nothing but praises). but the ones here? give me a 10 year old civic anytime! a ridiculous move. but not unexpected. put entire families in substandard suvs & mpvs and wait for the carnage to ensue!

i really wouldn’t mind it if i was paying the prices they ask and give me their export standard model. then i’d know it’s a car i’d be able to rely on (like the humberside police force who sing nothing but praises).

but the ones here? give me a 10 year old civic anytime!

a

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