That ad tussle between BMW and Audi in South Africa back in 2006 is nothing compared to this latest feud, this time between Porsche and Nissan. What Porsche is doing right now is basically accusing the makers of the Nissan GT-R of cheating with the infamous 7 minutes 29 seconds lap time around the Nurburgring earlier this year.
Porsche purchased a Nissan GT-R and tried it out on the Nurburgring driven by one of Porsche’s chassis development engineers who they claim is an expert with the Nurburgring. According to Porsche, they only managed to get a lap time of 7 minutes and 54 seconds. On the same day, Porsche says the 911 Turbo managed 7 minutes and 38 seconds while the 911 GT2 managed 7 minutes and 34 seconds.
“This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car. For us, it’s not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres such as a semi-slick race-style tyre and not standard road tyres. The Nissan is a good car. I don’t want to make anything bad with my words. It’s a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo. For us it has been clearly the result. This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other (Nissan’s) numbers we had problems understanding it,” said Porsche’s product chief for the 911, August Achleitner.
Nissan has come out to defend itself, in a cheeky manner too! They say the tyres used during the Nissan GT-R’s 7 minute and 29 seconds lap driven by former F1 driver Toshio Suzuki are the standard Dunlop SP Sport 600 DSST CTT tyres that come with the car. In fact, the company still has the very same tyres used on the run and will be happy to exhibit the tyres along with the lap footage shot by the Japanese magazine Best Motoring.
But it’s worthwhile to note that in certain regions the car also comes with Bridgestone Potenza RE070R tyres, which so happens to be the tyres fitted on the GT-R that Porsche bought. Based on this, can we conclude that the Dunlop SP Sport 600 DSST CTT are better tyres than the Bridgestone Potenza RE070R?
The Japanese automaker added that it was pointless for Nissan to conduct tests using non-standard equipment as the GT-R was designed from the start to be a supercar that could be driven anywhere, anytime and by anyone so it is much more relevant and meaningful to test the car using standard production specification. In fact, the lap car was carrying an additional 50kg of equipment that was used for lap data logging and could have gone even faster without that equipment.
Nissan said Porsche’s inability to match their lap times could be because of improper run-in procedures and cheekily, “lack of driver skill”.
“We are aware that several auto makers have purchased the GT-R for their own testing and evaluation. Like all GT-R customers, we recommend that any auto maker buying a GT-R should follow the recommended run-in procedures, service schedules and maintenance to ensure the maximum performance from their car. In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R,” they said, probably while trying hard to suppress a snigger.
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what the? I can’t believe they are fighting over this. go back to making better cars, BOTH OF YOU! :)
The DUNLOP is an optional tire that needs to pay more.
hehehe, maybe nissan guys know that Porsche’s team is buying that car for testing, so they use the gps-180kmh-limiter system around the Nurburgring :) no wonder la ‘slower’..
The GTR engine is a handmade machine in a hermetically sealed factory, even the gearbox is specially mated to that specific engine ONLY. The horsepower is undetermined.
Porsche might be unlucky to get a less powerfull one. OR they’re just too jealous to believe how much a Datsun 120Y have evolute into. When they can’t be as fast.. they start saying them cheating. RIGHT they have the best eye in the world that NOBODY would’ve notice until they do the lap with thier own car.
On what purpose nissan would cheat. They’re not trying to make the fastest car in the world anyway. I support Datsun this time.
Some of the foreign car magazine people suspect that the GT-R is actually closer to 520 hp rather than 480 hp, that will account for it beating the production Ferrari and the Porsche while still being heavier.
droll said,
October 10, 2008 @ 10:01 am
what the? I can’t believe they are fighting over this. go back to making better cars, BOTH OF YOU!
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they fight each other because of to defend the reputation to be the best in what they believe in. they want to prove to the world they can provide among the best. i wish that a malaysia have very compatative automaker like them.
Rich kids game..Conclusion is, Nissan get to sold 1more GT-R, but Porche not.
And the winner of all? Dunlop and Bridgestone, they got advertised freely.
this is all marketing manuevers.. I dont think their reaction has anything to do with “porsche: i cant believe a japanese company beat me”. Porsche is trying to play mindgames with nissan. its no secret that when nissan started developing this car, they mentioned the 911 as their benchmark. For a start, thats a good thing for porsche, as it shows that nissan acknowledged them as the car to beat and the bad part for them is, it now seems that nissan has achieved that. This is more a battle for ‘bragging rights’ than anything else.
But also, this is partly thanks to Lotus engineering as well, although not acknowledged, it appears that this new GTR had its ride & handling tuned by the boys in hethel.
but at the end of the day, i dont even see them competing for the same target market. i believe the people who will buy porsches, will continue to do so, and likewise the GTR. the cars represent totally different attitudes and concepts imho.
Porsche are being… well… Porsche…
Anyone remember the Porsche vs BMW ALMS debacle?
Wonder why Porsche would bash Nissan for their GTR. It’s both a different market. Jappy cow with an European beef. I may feel Porsche drag down their own brand by comparing themselves with Nissan. Even Lambo, Ferrari, McLaren etc etc are not comparing themselves with Jappy.
Freakin sore loosers Porsche, just admit defeat…the GTR has beaten/match Turbos and GT3s on any road or track tests everywhere u see, how do they explain that? and even if it’s slower that the Turbo, can they justify why it cost over double the price of a GTR? the germans must be having sleepless nights with Nissan as the title of their nightmare…
sour grapes!!
These tussles are pretty common these days, just as how the GM group accused Ford and Honda of beefing up their performance figures a couple of years’ back.
The GT-R is fast, but on the track, i believe the 911 turbo might just nick it with its stupendous grip and low rev boost. The GT3 is definitely out of the question here, but if i had a choice, i’d gor the GT3 over the 911 turbo and the plain GT-R.
it still makes good entertainment for us all ;) so i hope they dont stop so soon with all this.
Here we go again….. whenever Jap beat Conti…. all the excuses come out.
Why cant they give credit where due…. Same for Datsun and same for Lexus….
They just cant handle the truth that Jap have caught up so fast that now conti cars are like dinasour. The hard lesson here is Reliability and easy to drive is key to any supercar. Anyway this is sad truth….many rest on their badge to sell car and not “Kaisen”.
Get Walter Rohl to do it. He developed the Carerra GT on the ‘Ring, should be able to do the same with GTR.
Actually, it is quiet something for a manufacturer like Porsche to come out and say they bought a competitor’s car to test and study. Although they tot they had the uphand when the GTR didn’t perform, what they didn’t expect was a big hearted reply from the Nissan boys. Each has its point as rightly pointed out, each GTR engine is hand made to different outputs and the different tyres in different continent may produce different results. Would Porsche now care to change their tyres? Or would Nissan do so?
Either way kudos to Nissan. Only goes to show the kind of ppl working on GTR and the opposite working on Porsche.
usually car makers will put their highest horsepower from the crank as spec instead from the wheels as this time nissan is being humble beat them square and fair. and as for the porsche, sry, they are being cheap baskets.
bragging rights are so important…porsche boring already….gtr is freash…i wd giv it to the gtr…give me to test !
ape susah2 sgt?
just give 1 driver to fully familiarize with the cars &
let the same driver above to drive both car on the same track..
ok..more variables input: dry track, wind velocity, humidity…
quoting:
“Nissan said Porsche’s inability to match their lap times could be because of improper run-in procedures and cheekily, “lack of driver skill”.”
hmm…interesting..where can we get to know how Nissan do the “proper run-in”?
This argument is only about lap times. The GT R has beaten Porsche in other tests done by motor magazines and the result have always been the same: Nissan 1, Porsche 0 . They tested not only the Nissan, but a host of others, like the Ariel Atom, Lotus, Lambo, etc and the bad news for all these cars is that Nissan always wins. Instead of griping, it would be better for Porsche to improve their cars, to match Nissan.
fight fight fight
this is getting more interesting.. (eating popcorn)..
oh yeah, and the GT-R is cheaper than the Porsche by a mile…… Nissan 2, Porsche 0.
Nissan pwned Porsche…
Now all Porsche can do is:
– find a driver who can do better then 7:29
– add 30kg weight in the 911 and do better then 7:29
No matter what, Nissan still can do 7:29 and if you want to do that as well, join their performance driving lesson and follow maintenance schedule.
Nissan still pwned Porsche…
Even though a Porsche 911 costs much more than a Nissan Skyline GT-R, their acceleration and speed prowess seem rathre similar.
It’s just like using the Mitsubishi Evolution to chase a Lamborghini Murcielago. The Evo can easily match the Lambo’s speed! :D
HAHA! nice one nissan!
lack of driver skills.
pass it to sabine schmitz la. she’s the queen of the nurburing.
no one likes porsches. not even their parent company Audi/VW. hahahaha.
loveless child.
Porsche should stop whinning and built cars like Datsun…
But there are those who are blinded by personal biase and still wiill say porsche is better cos of brand… not the actual physical car.
Yes if you are into playboy image go for porsche but if you want real driver cars with technology to boot the datsun is the answer.
Thought of the day : Japs have come this far now imagine where they will be in another 10 years.. all I can say is the conti better adopt kaisen….. and not blantantly sell substandard cars based on a badge………this joke is getting old. I dont like to think one day I will be able to buy conti cars.
Uuuuuuuuuuuuuu….someone is angry! Heh heh! :-) Grow up la Porsche…built better and faster car to beat the GTR. We all know you can’t beat the GTR on it’s price, so stop the bickering and get to work! Ooorrr…are you (Porsche) jealous that Renault owning Nissan while you buying all those VW, Lambo, Audi, etc and etc? Regret leh never took over Nissan, hehehe! Cheers Porsche…don’t worry, I’m still a big fan of your GT2, GT3 and also the cool Gemballa Avalanche!
p/s: Ceh! Macam la orang Porsche nak baca komen aku nih! :-P
i am abit skeptical about the lap time myself when it was first released. But anyways….c’mon porsche…we know your factory fitted bridgestones are different in compound then those sold to the masses.
The dunlop is equipped in the lower spec, while the potenza is in the black spec. It’s just plain stupid. Everyone knows that GTR has beaten porsche in lap timing in EVERYWHERE! I couldnt care less the engine output is a lie. With a curb of 1800++ and beaten all the supercars. You may not like because it is a jappy, but it makes history. Just give credit when it is due.
ouch! Porsche got pwned! The Germans are jealous of the GTR performance anyway… great defense from Nissan too! Would love to see more drama from both of them… lolzzz!
i like porsches and dislike the gtr….but by beating the porsche turbo alone i think nissan (and Ghosn) have achieved the unachievable by doing what the porsche turbo has done to the rest of the competition for the past few years. being an affordable easy to drive supercar that beats all the competition. GT2 doesnt count because its a special model and its already lost its ‘face’ by being only 4 secs faster than the turbo despite having more power and costs significantly more.
with this result i think nissan even has all the japs beaten already and you can see they are trying very hard to tune thier cars to beat that time but still fall short as they almost certainly cant beat the gtr’s price. lexus lfa, future nsxR, RX7 replacement all no chance.
Car and Driver has a lighting lap every year.this year the GTR was almost at the top of the table,beaten by a whisker by the ferrari 430 scuderia,viper acr and mosler.A fine achievement for a car in that price range,from Japan, and can be used as an everyday car.Hooray for Asia. What about the mighty porsche? they decided not to compete this year as they lost to cheaper rivals last year.
But a car can’t be judged just by how fast it goes,it’s also the feeling that you get when you are behind the wheel,the stares,the oohs and aahs…..and that’s what you get for your money if you can afford a porsche,ferrari or lambo.
Each GT-R has a different engine, all hand made and different gear boxes tailor made for the car. Porche got a “weak” GT-R?
i think the Porsche engineers purposely drive the GTR as slow as possible, think about it, what will they tell their boss in the post test meeting if they were to conceed that their car’s slower…no bonus for them this year…u must always make yourself look good at work!
hehe..lets wait till the new nsx-R come out..see wat porsche gonna complaint later..
An Interesting view on the conflict
http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/
Marketing guys started this mess :)
By admitting they bought a GTR to test themselves just shows how insecure Porsche is with their own product.
Nissan doesn’t have to say anything because they know their GTR is perhaps the only car, other manafacturers had to literally buy to test for themselves, it’s that unsettling to them.
So Porsche has effectively made a fool of themselves.
it is normal for car manufacturer’s to buy their competitiors product and strip it. Nissan did the same when they were engineering the R35. Nothing new.
Maybe Porsche puts the suspension in comfort mode and they didn’t switch off the VDC…
s60t said,
October 10, 2008 @ 9:09 pm
Car and Driver has a lighting lap every year.this year the GTR was almost at the top of the table,beaten by a whisker by the ferrari 430 scuderia,viper acr and mosler.
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All the more impressive. One is a street car, the others, all limited edition lightweight tack focused cars….and all cost more.
csv said,
October 10, 2008 @ 4:14 pm
HAHA! nice one nissan!
lack of driver skills.
pass it to sabine schmitz la. she’s the queen of the nurburing.
no one likes porsches. not even their parent company Audi/VW. hahahaha.
loveless child.
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sorry mate… you got that one wrong…
actually Porsche AG is own by… guess who? Porsche… and Piëch families.
and Porsche have some share (30.9%) in the VW Group, which own VW, Audi, Lamborghini, Seat to name a few…
sorry…. it should be 35.79%.. not 30.9%
its great if top gear team (of coz jeremy clarkson) can give ‘his own personal comments’ and the stig can test this both cars
sure it ll be big bang in supercar segment hehehe
Too many 911 vs GT-R on the media these days. Would be very interesting if GT-R could be pitted against Ferrari F430 & Lambo Gallardo.Only then will make it a complete supercar challenger.
“lack of driver skills”
ya lorr..
how on earth do they think a chassis engineer can compete with an ex F1 driver from japan in terms of faster driving??? gila ka..?
if not..the chassis engineer must be stupid enough not to compete as an F1 driver if he does think that he can outrun even an ex F1 driver…
LOL ;p
even the Gallardo is slower than GT-R in 0-100-0mph run….
just because the Porsche is much expensive doesnt mean that it is faster on track than the GT-R….
the gt-r can accelerate faster but in the long run the porsche is still faster
The last paragraph is a good one, Nissan recommend and advise other manufactures how best to look after their GTR purchase…..how about how to avoid trasmmision blow ups, fuel economy and also saying Porsche drivers need training. I thuoght to get the best out of a Porsche Turbo or GT3's and 2's you need to be a very switched on driver and hear the grannies can drive a Nissan.
Lol