More updates on the prices and grades of fuel in Malaysia – Datuk Shahrir Samad said RON97 would not be floated in July 2009 but instead it will have its priced increased by reducing subsidies. He said floating it would not be feasible at the moment as apparently by floating it, the price per litre would shoot up by 50 sen, which at current RM1.80 per litre rates would result in a new RM2.30 per litre price. RON95 will be introduced to replace RON92 but will be priced at a the same price as RON92 via extra subsidies redirected from RON97. He hopes this will make Malaysians use the cheaper RON95 fuel.
He told The Star that Singapore, Taiwan and Indonesia have been using RON95 grade fuel without any problems. The thing is, the difference between RON98 and RON95 in Singapore is less than S$0.10 at the moment. Dollar for dollar, that is a small difference, and people who find that they need RON98 can do so without causing much pain to their pockets. It sounds like in Malaysia the difference between RON97 and RON95 will be higher than the current 10 sen gap between RON97 and RON92.
I have actually written to him twice about how RON95 would sometimes be unsuitable for older high compression vehicles designed to run on RON95 as carbon deposits and other wear and tear would actually increase the engine’s RON requirements and cause the engine to knock when RON95 is used. These carbon deposits can heat up in a hot engine and cause pre-spark detonation.
Older cars/engines without a knock sensor to automatically adjust ignition to compensate for knocking are especially prone to damage, but the thing is for a knock sensor to do its job the engine actually has to start knocking first before the knock sensor can “sense” it so there is still some potential for damage!
This is bad for the engine! If you assume a typical reason that a person using an old car with an old engine because he or she is not very well to do and cannot afford something newer, I am sure you don’t want to put that person into a situation where he has to fork out more money in maintenance because of high temperature detonation damage!
If you want to look at it from the rakyat’s point of view, instead of pricing RON97 higher to encourage RON95 consumption, the government should think of ways to educate people about why they should just save their penny and use RON95 instead if their cars can take it. Tax the “premium” RON97 Shell V-Power as much as you want but leave the option open for decently-priced RON97 fuel for those who really need it. But then again you could also say we should all just learn to adjust to what some say are impending permanent high fuel prices and get on with a new “gaya hidup”.
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What is Research Octane Number (RON)
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yes, i absolutely agree with you, take off all subsidies from ron97
In a country that produces oil and not having subsidies?
C'mon people who uses 97RON already paid extra on road tax…
while 100% on cars is already a nuisance!
agree. the gomen just aren't spending their times to think proper/find better alternative other than taxing it.
take it from me , as long as thy are forcing us , means theres someone up there will make tons of money out of it….btw paul , any examples of cars that the engine will suffere in the long run using ron97??
waja , perdana,seg,ek6 ??
take off subsidies from RON97??!!!
i thought you already tax on it!!!!!
liar!!!
brutally ridiculous and cheating the public…
although i am oso ok to use RON95
telling rakyat that u remove subsidies while in fact u r taxing it is totally unacceptable for me
I couldn't agree less…
They'll find one way or the other to squeeze dry the ppl.
lying through their teeth. i find our politicians can undertake a lie dectector test and come out smelling like roses. really.
"Singapore, Taiwan and Indonesia have been using RON95 grade fuel without any problems."
why bother to compare with singapore and taiwan when they are not petroleum exporter .
and why bother to compare to indonesia which their petrol price is actually lower than malaysia ?
sorry to say this is one of the most stupid thing we got in 50plus years of independence .
we are still in the circle of keeping things running in the circle . what matters is the economy of the country must be strengthen , foreign investor already avoiding perak due to the politcal situation , and reports of investment in malaysia has been dropping for the past few months is something alarming .
this is like proton in the past , tax heavily on the imported cars just to make sure proton sell well . i dont mind if protom is ok , by in the past 4-5 years , proton basically came out with cars that doesn't seem to be working at all , thanks to tengku mahaleel , we got Juara , Arena , Gen2(which cant even replace proton wira), proton savvy …
Paul: I think the knock sensor 'sense' the pressure build up in the combustion chamber, which will lead to knocking and retards the fueling/ignition. Rather than 'the engine actually has to start knocking first' as you said.
With regards to older engine experiencing knocking even though rated for RON 95, I'm wondering whether there's any technical explanation on how this can happen?
My thoughts on this, better bump up from RON97 to RON98 for the reduced subsidise fuel. Cos most higher performance cars (Golf GTI, Swift Sport) really achieve their rated hp with RON98 at minimum. With RON95, hp/power is reduced due to retardation of fueling/ignition.
perplexing indeed…read in thestar quoted "if we float price for ron 97, the price would increase rm0.50 immediately"
i thought at the current oil rate we're paying tax for it..how come suddenly the price can shoot up? does that mean the govt would tax us even more?
[quote comment="212645"]take off subsidies from RON97??!!!
i thought you already tax on it!!!!!
liar!!!
brutally ridiculous and cheating the public…
although i am oso ok to use RON95
telling rakyat that u remove subsidies while in fact u r taxing it is totally unacceptable for me[/quote]
They expected us to be as forgetful as them…
AFTA by 2008… then they conveniently forget the deadline and target… Well, it year of the ox… so expect lots of bulls
[quote comment="212672"]"Singapore, Taiwan and Indonesia have been using RON95 grade fuel without any problems."
why bother to compare with singapore and taiwan when they are not petroleum exporter .
and why bother to compare to indonesia which their petrol price is actually lower than malaysia ?[/quote]
i think the petrol price in Indonesia is comparable to malaysia given the current rate. however, the highest grade you can find in indonesia is RON 95 as opposed to RON 97 here..
as for high compression engines using lower RON petrol, i have seen a lot of new mercs and bmws (and not restricted to lower end models) running on RON 88 petrol in Indonesia.. Sometimes i am perplexed on how their engines can withstand the fuel.
"Datuk Shahrir Samad said RON97 would not be floated in July 2009 but instead it will have its priced increased by reducing subsidies…"
three words: WHAT THE FUCK!
as i remembered correctly, we are actually paying tax to the gomen with our current fuel pump price.this is pure bullshit coming straight from his mouth!
[quote comment="212676"]Paul: I think the knock sensor 'sense' the pressure build up in the combustion chamber, which will lead to knocking and retards the fueling/ignition. Rather than 'the engine actually has to start knocking first' as you said.
[/quote]
Nope, it is like a microphone thing that detects the type of vibrations/sound that knocking makes AFTER it has already begun. Pressure builds up in combustion chambers all the time, its part of the compression phase.
Anyway check this link out, sometimes knock sensors can be confused too, very interesting.
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?…
I really wonder when will these 'people' see the logics behind subsidies and keeping the prices as low as possible. Malaysia is not EXACTLY the richest country around. We are just merely 'moderate'. In terms of living standards and what not.
But then again, SOME people UP there (not God obviously), just like to play God. Today they suggest this and then all of a sudden, due to some sudden midnight dream or something, the next day, they change their suggestions to that. So, to me, it looks like they are playing ping pong with the rakyat's welfare.
For an oil producing country, I really can't see why we must pay more instead of enjoying the benefits of an oil producing country. Oh! Wait a minute ! I smell CORRUPTION !!!!
face it, we can not feed off subsidies from the G forever, but pure lies straight to the face really pisses me off! this is not reducing subsidies, but actually making profit out of it!
well , that makes me wonder , why dont just abolish the system , let the petrol price float with the market ?
[quote comment="212683"][quote comment="212672"]"Singapore, Taiwan and Indonesia have been using RON95 grade fuel without any problems."
why bother to compare with singapore and taiwan when they are not petroleum exporter .
and why bother to compare to indonesia which their petrol price is actually lower than malaysia ?[/quote]
i think the petrol price in Indonesia is comparable to malaysia given the current rate. however, the highest grade you can find in indonesia is RON 95 as opposed to RON 97 here..
as for high compression engines using lower RON petrol, i have seen a lot of new mercs and bmws (and not restricted to lower end models) running on RON 88 petrol in Indonesia.. Sometimes i am perplexed on how their engines can withstand the fuel.[/quote]
nowaday , many new engine from big company can drink ron90, unlike the proton which its campro need to drink ron95 and above
shianghorng said,
February 20, 2009 @ 10:03 pm ·
In a country that produces oil and not having subsidies?
————————————-
Just because we produce oil doesn't mean we automatically get cheap fuel. Our net exported oil is pittance compared to the likes of the Sauds and Venezuela. Furthermore, we're fast becoming a net IMPORTER of oil, so…
maybe not a real wayout… but.. IF
all old car, can get 'easier process completion' for changing their engine. :D
image, an old toyota ke20 with new 1.3 engine in avanza. (oh comeon… not the camry engine lor..)
haha.. so the problem solve already.. yeah.. keep dreaming lor!
Well Paul, beside the issue of RON95 in older vehicle, I have an experience might want to share to you too.
I'm staying in Singapore right now and I'm frequently travel back to JB (by car) as my hometown in JB and business purposes as my company branch in JB (I'm not the boss okay, haha).
I owning a Sg car right now and to be frank my car always loaded with M'sia petrol, because I'm back to JB each of weekend and most of the time I left Sg with more than 3/4 tank due to less usage of car. BUT sometimes for some special case and having more tavel, I need to top up the petrol to 3/4 before I left Sg.
Now is the story, I found the performances of RON95 in Sg may equivalent to the V-power in Bolehland, I'm not kidding. I have compare few time in either my car or my company car. Most of the time I'm driving my company car, and once the tank with m'sia RON97 emptied and re-fill with Sg RON95, the performances is totally different. Sometime I will fill it with M'sia V-power and refill it to Sg Ron95 once it is emptied, and both performances is equal (=). I knew the grade of petrol in Bolehland is lower than Sg, but why Bolehland can't give M'sian a better grade of Petrol? For normal people they have idea on performances of RON95, RON98 or RON92 in terms of the digits shown, more higher number meant more power full, that's totally wrong. I'm afraid once the RON95 implemented, ppl will find out the RON95 will give under power to their car as most ppl get use to RON97…..
I hate BN!
Guyz……
Please….. DON'T TRUST THEM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are bleedy liars………….
Its gonna be the same scenario as wad happened last time !!! They always give a specific time to implement it but ended up implementing it way too earlier !!!! So, i dont think so they gonna implement it exactly on July….. It will be somewhere around the corner…. Learn from the past…. REMEMBER !!!! Dont trust their words !!!!! So guyz. enjoy the cheaper Ron 97 from now itself for a better power….
[quote comment="212676"]Paul: I think the knock sensor 'sense' the pressure build up in the combustion chamber, which will lead to knocking and retards the fueling/ignition. Rather than 'the engine actually has to start knocking first' as you said." qoute]
Nope Paul is right. Engine management systems will only retard timing once they get a "knock" signal from the knock sensors. FWIW, knock sensors do get "sensitized" over time and tend to "knock" more. We term it "phantom knock". Your timing gets pulled and you get a power loss but not due to real knocking, but due to a faulty knock sensor.
Engines experience pre-detonations of various degrees of severity all the time. It is the serious ones that will kill your engine (like ones when you use the wrong grade petrol in a non-knock sensor equipped car).
—-[quote comment="212672"]"Singapore, Taiwan and Indonesia have been using RON95 grade fuel without any problems."
quote]
THey also have a newer "installed" base of cars that can take lower octane fuel. We dont. Stupid Gomen
[quote comment="212699"]maybe not a real wayout… but.. IF
all old car, can get 'easier process completion' for changing their engine. :D
image, an old toyota ke20 with new 1.3 engine in avanza. (oh comeon… not the camry engine lor..)
haha.. so the problem solve already.. yeah.. keep dreaming lor![/quote]
haha…if you were driving a KE20, you'd think you can afford a swap an engine that is 5x the cost of your car? lol….
betul ke semua kat cni bayar tax!! claiming pay tax wtf…maybe only 10% us paying tax here..very fishy yo
sagax said,
February 21, 2009
from my previous comment
not the petrol tax ok..but personal tax
Wow, dont even underestimate old car.. I have seen a few KE20 with AE86 engine inside… Bloody hell…
I know why this G dont want to float coz they know Ron97 may even cheaper than Ron95, if implemented floting price and ppl may complain.. Their days are going to end, just see for the next GE.
They have been enjoying fuel tax so much that it was went into their heads that they are "subsidizing" our fuel. Fuel price to go up when float? What's the logic here? Aren't they marking up WAY above the market price for their fuel tax?
I agree with Paul, they should educate instead of hiking price up to promote lower RON petrol. Another thought, since many petrol stations aren't pro-active in offering multi petrol options (RON92 / RON97), are all stations ready to provide RON95?
"unsuitable for older high compression vehicles designed to run on RON95 as carbon deposits and other wear and tear would actually increase the engine’s RON requirements and cause the engine to knock when RON95 is used"
for sure, it ll be chaos for wira, iswara saga owners…
jz imagine.. by using ron97 edi so much of pinging and knocking… >.<
then what will happen in the next Pilihan Raya
macam zaman inggeris dlu2 lak..
I think now is the best time to get rid of the subsidies because the oil price cheaper. But, I also think something is not rite..when petrol price RM1.92, the crude oil was USD70. But now around USD40, price is RM1.80. I guess gomen is recovering the RM625 given to car owner. Anyway, just an opinion, no actual facts. For whatever reason, I think gomen knows that how expensive it is, people will still use. Otherwise, go to work naik basikal.
WTF !!!
We r selling the most expensive petrol in the world and now they say wanna reduce subsidie ??
Fuck you BN !!
[quote comment="212995"]WTF !!!
We r selling the most expensive petrol in the world and now they say wanna reduce subsidie ??
Fuck you BN !![/quote]
Hey, who say most expensive. Our gomen always says still cheaper than other country what..In japan it's ~100 – 110yen, equal to ~RM4/liter. But they never revealed that their salary also 4x higher than our country. So actually the comparison that our gomen made is not normalised, so takleh pakai!
not fair la… wth!!~
WTH!!
did they ever think with their brain or what?
plss dont change the system and make it worse.what we have now already suck.i dont even care about ron 92/95 as long ron97 is still reasonable to paid for.and now they want replace ron92 to ron95 which is good improvement,but why they want to increase ron97 and call it reducing subsidies?if want to open market just do it and why u want to tax it.open market my ass!!!
a fresh grad engineer in japan will receive ~210,000yen (~rm8,000) salary. a car in japan as cheap as 1,000,000yen (rm40,000). so u can calculate urself with simple normalization.
They all came from the same school. Great actors and liars. When pushed, they claim that the rakyat is being taxed, now they say reduce subsidy. Talk nonsense.
Next time for great actors award, don't watch the Oscars, Just go to the parliament.
[quote comment="213018"]kkkkll!~[/quote]
The Minister should be given a full medical check up..Who knows their IQ has dropped below 50, they can't believe the fuel price system they introduced last year wasn't acting like they expected. Then we should send the Minister back to primary school to learn abc and 123 again….
Let Ron-97 be at the current price and let Ron-92 be available for those who really needs it.
Go to hell shahrir, you are really a MALAYSIAN IDIOT !!!
better change goverment
talk so many also no use.
earn so many already still want earn more.
Just sell the 95 ron alone. it will work. Less infrastructure development for petrol station. Whoever use old cars, JPJ should do something on this. Maybe a 'tonic' to boost the octane number which can be obtained from the Puspakom using coupuns maybe?
I haven't prepare to fix my car if it does not suit Ron95..
[quote comment="212787"]betul ke semua kat cni bayar tax!! claiming pay tax wtf…maybe only 10% us paying tax here..very fishy yo[/quote]
hmm ader ke atesen minyak jual 2 jenis petrol atau diesel?.. one untuk without tax punya petrol, one more is taxed petrol.. Very unwise to say that.. think first before saying man!! now we are discussing about the petrol price….
almostl all cars can run on RON95 where on a precaution side, all car owners advised to a pay visit to their friendly mechanic to retune their ignition timing, if required, and everything would be okay…
[quote comment="212676"]Paul: I think the knock sensor 'sense' the pressure build up in the combustion chamber, which will lead to knocking and retards the fueling/ignition. Rather than 'the engine actually has to start knocking first' as you said.
With regards to older engine experiencing knocking even though rated for RON 95, I'm wondering whether there's any technical explanation on how this can happen?
My thoughts on this, better bump up from RON97 to RON98 for the reduced subsidise fuel. Cos most higher performance cars (Golf GTI, Swift Sport) really achieve their rated hp with RON98 at minimum. With RON95, hp/power is reduced due to retardation of fueling/ignition.[/quote]
RON stands for Research Octane Number. For typical gasoline engine, the number of octane is required to be high up until a certain number, so that the fuel can only be combusted using spark ignition. If lower octane number is used, lower activation energy required for the fuel to burn. In this case a certain pressure inside combustion chamber that high enough to overcome the activation energy will produce combustion even BEFORE THE SPARK PLUG PRODUCE SPARK, this will create knocking. For example, for newer gasoline engine (without the knocking sensor-we remove the sensor as study purposes), let say the cylinder 2 and cylinder 3 has already produce combustion even cylinder 1 and 4 haven't reach the lowest point their piston can go, cylinder 1 and 4 will be force to move up. As you already know, the crankshaft works in rotation, supposedly if the pistons if forced to go upward before the intended time, it will surely damage the engine.
[quote comment="212711"]I hate BN![/quote]
I hate PR