Paul,

Can VIVA use RON 95?

Thats my point of suara"ing" out my view.

Our petrol also no Euro (not even Euro 1 – if there is a euro 1 standard)!

Our petrol and diesel SHOULD be Euro 2 in Jan 2006 and Euro 4 by 2010+. This is the 'revised' commitment by the G, which was made earlier.

The original commitment?

To introduce (both diesel and petrol) Euro 2 in Jan 2006 and Euro 4 by Jan 2009.

Its March 2009 now and the G only give 'air-liur' commitment for Euro 2 diesel by Sept 2009. Wow.. that's almost 4 years delays. How about petrol Euro specification (beside the RON issue)? Silent saja…

When think about Euro 4… realistically (given G 'proven' track record), 2015 maybe?.. when its already Euro 7 everywhere? What's the point, huh?[/quote]

I think the main issue is money. Besides old lorry and commercial vehicle, a very small percentage of diesel user requires higher grade fuel and to change might (I'm assuming here) not be priority here besides providing cheaper rates of petrol. In Indonesia, the cheapest fuel is on the lowest rate and RON, keeping its economy competitive. In Thailand, Truck (pickup) and commercial vehicle/diesel user percentage is higher then petrol all across the country (not just in Bangkok) forcing the govt to follow the standard. Furthermore, the supplies is from Singapore, and it makes economic sense compared to us who have the refinery here and would require substantial amount of investment. But I believe the day we have the higher standard of diesel made available here (ULSD), on that moment we can see the Bluemotion Merc, Audi & VW being offered (but being classic Malaysian, diesel is for Taxi and Lorry, taukes & crony will snub it for sure)

Our petrol also no Euro (not even Euro 1 – if there is a euro 1 standard)!

Our petrol and diesel SHOULD be Euro 2 in Jan 2006 and Euro 4 by 2010+. This is the 'revised' commitment by the G, which was made earlier.

The original commitment?

To introduce (both diesel and petrol) Euro 2 in Jan 2006 and Euro 4 by Jan 2009.

Its March 2009 now and the G only give 'air-liur' commitment for Euro 2 diesel by Sept 2009. Wow.. that's almost 4 years delays. How about petrol Euro specification (beside the RON issue)? Silent saja…

When think about Euro 4… realistically (given G 'proven' track record), 2015 maybe?.. when its already Euro 7 everywhere? What's the point, huh?

Sulphur is not the cause of black smoke in diesel cars. Black smoke is caused by bad tuning or poor maintenence.

[/quote]

Bad tuning is 1 of the reasons, but if you went to tom yam land or Singapore. Their lorries, bus and pick-up trucks are as much the same as petrol cars. Their engine is almost the same as ours, but due to better quality diesel. Their maintenance cost are less, engine can last longer and cleaner emission due to better grade diesel.

I have met a neighbor son which married with a tom yam land girl and drive a T. Fortuner 3.0 Diesel from there. When he came back during last CNY, he complain a lot about our diesel quality as it emits a lot of smoke during acceleration and not very smooth (not powerful)… He cant complain much as our diesel price is cheaper, that why he said "the more you pay, the better you get." You can ask those people which travel a lot to Thai or Singapore with their 4X4, and i gonna bet they will tell you the diesel standard there is excellent! Is like Vpower diesel for them, and helps clean the carbon out (something like Caltex Techron)! That why i support for better grade of diesel.

Anyway if i not mistaken, Petrol also are categorize. What is our Petrol standard? I heard they also have something like Euro3/4 also..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur

Some details about fuel quality:

The focus is now on reducing the concentration of sulfur in diesel. Diesel engines produce smoke and sulfur dioxide, both of which are highly toxic pollutants. Reducing concentrations of sulfur in diesel is central to reducing diesel vehicle emissions, which is critical in the urban context as the population of diesel vehicles is growing faster than that of gasoline vehicles in Asian cities.

Another advantage of better quality diesel (with sulfur levels below 50 ppm) is it enables the use of advanced technology in after-treatment devices to reduce emissions. "You need to first take the smoke out of diesel, that can be done through reducing sulfur levels, and then work on trapping SPM," says Mexico's Director of Trafalgar SA de CV John Rogers.

I fully support diesel technology, as now in Europe have proven it is more fuel efficient and save cost compare to hybrid petrol technology.. Just go and check for Polo diesel blue motion VS Civic hybrid review.

ultimately, this cars will help reduce owners' expenditure (hence G fuel subsidy) and help reduce pollutants too.

The readiness and availability of Euro 4 diesel stock in ASEAN is there, as Singapore did refine and have this diesel in their oil market (which is the place to buy all kind of oil for most Far East Asia countries. even Australia buy most of their oil from S'pore).

To say we don't want to buy oil from S'pore is rubbish, because we have being buying from their oil market all this while. Just maybe their refinery capacity to support the sudden jump of demand for Euro 4 diesel from M'sia might not be there (and thus might push the price a bit).

Therefore, why can't Petronas and others transform theirs (albeit small capacity) local refinery in M'sia to support Euro 4 when there is time to do so? Impossible if they say they don't have money!

If the locally-operating oil companies can transform their delivery system & facilities to support euro 2M (due to current G directive and assuming they have to do something about it) why not euro 4 instead? why do double work (assuming we'll go to euro 4 later) when all we know and hear all the time is "Do it right the first time"?

Additionally, I do have a few questions here:

Firstly, what is the different in terms of cost in CAPEX & OPEX for oil companies and the station owners to upgrade their facilities to jump from no Euro to Euro 2M diesel versus from no Euro to Euro 4 diesel?

Secondly, it is possible for the G to use portion of the 2nd stimulus package to finance (soft loan?) the move (to Euro 4) instead of wasting time and effort with euro 2M (which aren't useful in today fuel-efficient and low-polluting diesel cars)?

Thirdly, why upgrade to Euro 2M diesel when there is no significant impact from it? I might be ignorant, but what are the benefits of euro 2M diesel beside slight reduction in exhaust pollutants? Please enlighten me. And while you are at it, what saving we might gained from this upgrade to euro 2M diesel? For the end consumers (vehicle owners) and the explaination must also taken into account the cost involved to upgrade the local facilities here (to accept euro 2M)?

Did what i've asked, doesn't make any sense to you, the G?

Sulphur is not the cause of black smoke in diesel cars. Black smoke is caused by bad tuning or poor maintenence.

I'm not looking forward to this, I have 2 cars that will do quite poorly running 95octane (both will need a slight timing detune to use 95 – both don't have knock sensors so I will have to do it manually).

If they do RON95 and maybe something higher than RON97, then I wouldn't mind the premium.. 97 is basically the equivalent of PON 92/93, which is just normal premium fuel for cars with higher compression…basically if your car has over 10:1 compression ratio, you will be more than likely using RON97 and up (which basically are almost all new cars nowadays) for full benefit of the engine.

Running RON92 on a high compression engine, while possible, will just not fully utilize the engine at its full potential/efficiency (ie, maximum timing advance). What saving will you end up with doing this? You will have to rev your engine up to reduce load per combustion stroke to get the same power..leading to more fuel use……fuel use calculation just got complicated for the average user.

Sometimes I wonder who advises our Datuk.

I think is time G need to implement Bio-Diesel or Bio-Petrol, as our country have a lot of Palm oil. If others can do it (Brazil, Germany, U.S..) why not us? Since the G mention that our oil is going to finish, why not invest in something that we have a lot? Bio-Diesel & Petrol have proven to be less pollution and more environment friendly.[/quote]

I believe the idea of biofuel did cause problems to food price all over the world (as we see last year). we have limited (fertile) land, and food might becoming scarce. I believe it is best not to depend on fossil fuel and alternative renewable energy such wind and solar will be very much helpful. Lets leave the edible palm oil to the maker of margarine and cooking oil, and focus on methane and others.[/quote]

But i think it's better to do it now since the crude palm oil also now low as Rm1k per tonne.[/quote]

I agree as US/EU starts to boycott the PO and force the usage of soy and sunflower. But we need political will, and most automaker don't really care (Toyota void warranty if you fill with biodiesel). Our lawmaker is weak, throwing toys out of the pram instead of doing real work in the parliament, accusing people and creating unfounded wealth. Only one man have the balls to do so, and he is the one who force us to drive Proton.

I think is time G need to implement Bio-Diesel or Bio-Petrol, as our country have a lot of Palm oil. If others can do it (Brazil, Germany, U.S..) why not us? Since the G mention that our oil is going to finish, why not invest in something that we have a lot? Bio-Diesel & Petrol have proven to be less pollution and more environment friendly.[/quote]

I believe the idea of biofuel did cause problems to food price all over the world (as we see last year). we have limited (fertile) land, and food might becoming scarce. I believe it is best not to depend on fossil fuel and alternative renewable energy such wind and solar will be very much helpful. Lets leave the edible palm oil to the maker of margarine and cooking oil, and focus on methane and others.[/quote]

But i think it's better to do it now since the crude palm oil also now low as Rm1k per tonne.

I think is time G need to implement Bio-Diesel or Bio-Petrol, as our country have a lot of Palm oil. If others can do it (Brazil, Germany, U.S..) why not us? Since the G mention that our oil is going to finish, why not invest in something that we have a lot? Bio-Diesel & Petrol have proven to be less pollution and more environment friendly.[/quote]

I believe the idea of biofuel did cause problems to food price all over the world (as we see last year). we have limited (fertile) land, and food might becoming scarce. I believe it is best not to depend on fossil fuel and alternative renewable energy such wind and solar will be very much helpful. Lets leave the edible palm oil to the maker of margarine and cooking oil, and focus on methane and others.

I think is time G need to implement Bio-Diesel or Bio-Petrol, as our country have a lot of Palm oil. If others can do it (Brazil, Germany, U.S..) why not us? Since the G mention that our oil is going to finish, why not invest in something that we have a lot? Bio-Diesel & Petrol have proven to be less pollution and more environment friendly.

if not sure i pokai liao.

actually all hydrocarbon fuel(petrol or diesel) will also give u ROUGHLY same amount of energy 44~ 47MJ/kg.

so if u turbocharge ur car in ur old engine, u might wanna use higher RON. why?

if higher RON put into old car(older engine), it also perform very bad because it cannot fully combust due to higher temperature input needed for higher RON. so the old engine will create a lot of unburn fuel (HC). or even older engine put higher RON, it think the engine won't even start.

i'm newbie here, first time post it over here…

Yes, but when we reach Euro 4, others could be at Euro 10 already. Now, some countries are already Euro 5. It won't be long before our neighbours north and south go that way. And the G complains that they come here to buy our cheaper diesels, which they can't even use on their cars.

My Myvi cannot consume RON92 because the the fuel nozzle for RON92 is slightly bigger to fit. So, RON97 is my only petrol choice.[/quote]

bro, which petrol station you go to? i can fill my myvi with ron92 fuel from esso, mobil, bhp and caltex stations, no problems.

anyway, most shell and petronas stations i see don't have ron92 fuel, only ron97…and they are the brands with the biggest network of stations in malaysia. could this be the reason why the deadline is extended? so that the stations' kiosks can be adapted/modified to deliver ron95 and ron97 fuel?

The govt should tell us why it is sooooo difficult to have euro4 at least.

EURO2 and RON are 2 different things. One is good for the environment and the other is for the car.

It still baffles me why the G want to even talk about RON97, it is just pure overkill for 99% of the cars. Even the RON95 is also an overkill for some cars. Mine only requires RON92. So, RON95 is more without any additional benefits.

Do you know what is your minimum RON number for your car?[/quote]

do you even know that most proton cars need at least RON95?[/quote]

[quote comment="223282"][quote comment="223222"]I think some of you better go read up on what is RON before you comment further. If they can keep prices down on RON95, it will be ok for 99% of the cars in Malaysia. The more pertinent question asked should be if they are going to include an acceptable additive package to the RON95.

EURO2 and RON are 2 different things. One is good for the environment and the other is for the car.

It still baffles me why the G want to even talk about RON97, it is just pure overkill for 99% of the cars. Even the RON95 is also an overkill for some cars. Mine only requires RON92. So, RON95 is more without any additional benefits.

Do you know what is your minimum RON number for your car?[/quote]

do you even know that most proton cars need at least RON95?[/quote]

That is why g is changing to ron95.so that existing proton can use it without modification. Minimum ron requirement is tuned by the manufacturer.perhaps newer proton can be tuned lower than ron95 to dispel the ignorant motorist. In indonesia, most cars are tuned to ron88. Again ron requirement has nothing to do with performance but only the minimum before the engine starts to knock.

whatever it is, wait till the policy is out, then we know what their up to.