Proton managing director Datuk Hj Syed Zainal says Proton is in very preliminary talks with Renault on a technical collaboration, which sources in the company say are centered around the supply of a diesel engine for Proton. Proton is also toying with the idea of a Laguna-based Perdana but this is just one of the many options that are being looked at including one based on the SAIC-owned Rover 75 platform.
Renault currently has various diesel engines ranging from 1.5 litres to 2.2 litres including the M9R 2.0L diesel, which comes from the same family as the MR petrol engines found locally in the Nissan Grand Livina and Nissan Sylphy.
These talks between manufacturers happen all the time and could range from a simple supplier and customer relationship to a technical collaboration, and this happens even more often these days due to the pressure on manufacturers to reduce costs, increase sales and improve profits.
Proton says an equity sale is not being considered in these talks.
Looking to sell your car? Sell it with Carro.
What about the 1.5 diesel? :)
At least they are focusing more on their customers, at the end of the day.. profits will roll-in eventually but after they tighten up on things like product quality and customer service.
so, the intention is the diesel engine? :)
agree
colloboration is the way to go. period.
Enough with renault. Please talk to VAG (1.4 TDi & TDSi)
the exora's bcm comes from them.
I think Proton better plan properly, and have a strategy. We heard long time they going to talk with Mitsubishi back, then GM, and now Renault…Proton will become a global re-badge then instead of the Proton spirit (but after 20years, it proof that its hard to BUILD something from scratch to compete openly). The electrical car initiative is very good, so that is one achievement. Now they gota firm the direction of building from scratch or re-badge (like perodua). In the newspaper, also read asking the Gov to consolidate ALL national cars (which include NAZA surprisingly). I think the once-proud national car is finally moving into re-badge direction in day-1. 20 years just gone like that without having a single unit car to compete successfully in the outside market. If re-badge all those partners, check out the GM Fusion from the north america (if they have righ-hand drive). Very fuel efficient, driving from LA-Vegas round trip cost $60 only. Cant imagine that.
good. then for sure savvy wont be extinct!
I think .. for diesel engine, they better go with Japanese car maker. Instead of mitsubishi, try smaller company like Isuzu (D-max is a good engine btw), or nissan (but nissan's now owned by renault right? am i? sorry not very sure).
Beside of the technology itself.. it's about maintenance factor.. ie:
Japan engine = cheap parts/spare part and might be upgrade parts.
Renault or other continental (VW etc) oso good, but the parts price may very very different.
proton should be sold off
I asked this question a few times but no one seems bother to answer to put in wrting honestly and frankly. If we compare year to year achievement with the Korean and China car manufacturers. Where do we stand once we step outside our comfort zone ? Buy an air ticket to fly out of here to check out what is it like out there. Albeit, we have many handicaps given as a form of R&D, massive tax preferencial treatment, (i believe these play a pivotal sales here !) , etc, you name it. But, we are even behind Thailand and Vietnam in terms of economy achievement. Investors flood these two countries. Rayong ? Detroit of the East ? Thailand export their productions to worldwide. Look at Thailand's car industry, how vibrant they are. It has provided much economy of scale anytime compares to ours here ie employment foremost, learning opportunities, R&D. Our local vendors' cost is more than 100% expensive in compararison with the Japanese vendors there. But, quality wise ? What have we achieved since 1985 in terms of technology ? Still can't build a proper gearbox let alone an engine. Still running on timing where others already decades ago using timing chain (for eg Nissan Sentra back in 1995). Wassalam.
Renault currently has various diesel engines ranging from 1.5 liters to 2.2 liters including the M9R 2.0L diesel, which comes from the same family as the MR petrol engines found locally in the Nissan Grand Livina and Nissan Sylphy.
—————————————————————-
One of the reason Savvy is not popular is becouse the engine is from Renault. A lot of negative talks about the engine. If they want to use Renault diesel engine, then try to associate the engine with Nissan. Perhap this way, people are more receptive with the engine.
"Same engine with Nissan, madam, very reliable one"
The European built diesel engines are the one of the best and reliable in the world. 70% of their vehicles run on diesel engines. That was since decades ago. Buy an air ticket and explore yourself what are ppl's achievements.
P1 mpv will benefit having a turbodiesel engine to move all thise weight. Renault/peugeot have good range of DCi/HDi engine and suitable for mpv.(currently used by their renault espace/citroen c8..etc)
[quote comment="228557"]I think .. for diesel engine, they better go with Japanese car maker. Instead of mitsubishi, try smaller company like Isuzu (D-max is a good engine btw), or nissan (but nissan's now owned by renault right? am i? sorry not very sure).
Beside of the technology itself.. it's about maintenance factor.. ie:
Japan engine = cheap parts/spare part and might be upgrade parts.
Renault or other continental (VW etc) oso good, but the parts price may very very different.[/quote]
I don't think so…… Japanese diesel engines aren't as good as the Continental ones…… And I dun think Exora can fit in the 3.0 diesel from Isuzu…
It would've been cool if Proton can get VW's diesel, bt with their sour history, I guess that won't happen. So I guess goin with Renault's is fine.
[quote comment="228551"]the exora's bcm comes from them.[/quote]
Proof?
[quote comment="228563"]The European built diesel engines are the one of the best and reliable in the world. 70% of their vehicles run on diesel engines. That was since decades ago. Buy an air ticket and explore yourself what are ppl's achievements.[/quote]
No need air ticket la… ever heard this thing called INTERNET??
Clean up our sulfur content first in our local diesel supply.
Nissan & Renault engine parts are almost the same.. But some engine such like those Euro4 engine are made by Renault due to higher standard in Europe. If i not mistaken currently most of Nissan Diesel engine is design and built by Renault, while the petrol engines such like V6 or MR engine are made by the Japs. Is a win-win situation as Japanese are famous for their petrol engine, while Europeans are diesel engine.. Anyway not all Renault petrol engine are available for Nissan as different standard or class…
1 question… Since now most of Renault diesel engine need at least Euro3/4 to run. Are we going to get those outdated engine again?!?
[quote comment="228568"][quote comment="228551"]the exora's bcm comes from them.[/quote]
Proof?
No need air ticket la… ever heard this thing called INTERNET??[/quote]
Thinking,
Internet ok. Sometimes, it is better to see them ourselves. Seeing is believing ma. Wassalam.
Talking about proof of the bcm, I used to drive a Renault cbu back in 1997, my ride has most of the functions back to back with the bcm. Go check out the Scenic and Laguna, Espace and you shall find them there. Nothing new, old technology even the Japs have them for some time.
[quote comment="228551"]the exora's bcm comes from them.[/quote]
Exora BCM is from Continental AG.
Paul,
Thanks. Meaning from Audi ?
What Audi???
what's Continental AG ?
Continental brand tyres ?
[quote comment="228562"]Renault currently has various diesel engines ranging from 1.5 liters to 2.2 liters including the M9R 2.0L diesel, which comes from the same family as the MR petrol engines found locally in the Nissan Grand Livina and Nissan Sylphy.
—————————————————————-
One of the reason Savvy is not popular is becouse the engine is from Renault. A lot of negative talks about the engine. If they want to use Renault diesel engine, then try to associate the engine with Nissan. Perhap this way, people are more receptive with the engine.
"Same engine with Nissan, madam, very reliable one"[/quote]
Its not a problem with the engines… Its just some plastic components that get hardened over few years…
The biggest problem is we have many halfcuts from Japan or at least Japanese cars that are totalled/wrecked easily, but not from European makes… and we dont have OEM products for european makes as well… most of us service our cars at unauthorised workshops as its much cheaper, but they get their parts from spare parts shops/dealer/chop shops, which also supplies OEM products which could be much cheaper than original imported parts (made in japan or europe etc)…
So the cost of ownership for these engines are not low… but if we can get a lot of them on the road on a big scale, surely some of them will be wrecked and become halfcuts… and spare part dealers will see the economy of scale to import parts cheaply… and OEM products will slowly come…
And not to mention, these diesel engines are far superior than our fuel… and our fuel is controlled by the govt… and the govt looks over proton's interest… so the only reasonable way forward is proton to have big economy of scale and have these diesel engines in their car… then we will have improved diesel fuel + latest diesel engines + better power to weight ratio for proton cars + more economical proton cars… and slowly more modern trucks/buses to take advantage of the diesel… and a cleaner and more efficient transport industry…
Lol arise…. do you even know how to use internet properly?
no offence =p
i heard sometimes ago, Petronas Chairman said Malaysian oil produce more diesel then petrol..strangely we have a very poor diesel in our market and the usage is also very low..
maybe this is to protect P1 as they have no diesel engine ? hurm..
if this news sure, realy good.. because in turkey the renault diesel are very very very popular, so this will be a good sales argument for proton becuase people want cars with no parts problem.. so in turkey there is everywhere a renault service.. just in very little towns, too..
i posted proton 5days before a e-mail like this topic, so i hope good news will arrive us…
if not then proton must search or create a diesel engine…
not to mention… the latest renault laguna is really really nice…
its also nice in both sedan and stationwagon form…
and being a renault… the cockpit is excellent… for me, its like an airplane… love all the electronic stuff, digital controls for cruise control, individual stalk for audio controls…
Continental AG is a big supplier that goes beyond tyres. Try MAS website to buy a ticket to Germany and look for yourself and arise from your ignorance and from the comfort of your armchair expertise.
When it comes to Malaysians doing something its always seen in the negative. Why?
[quote comment="228592"]Continental AG is a big supplier that goes beyond tyres. Try MAS website to buy a ticket to Germany and look for yourself and arise from your ignorance and from the comfort of your armchair expertise.
When it comes to Malaysians doing something its always seen in the negative. Why?[/quote]
I knew it is coming sooner or later. Wassalam.
[quote comment="228592"]Continental AG is a big supplier that goes beyond tyres. Try MAS website to buy a ticket to Germany and look for yourself and arise from your ignorance and from the comfort of your armchair expertise.
When it comes to Malaysians doing something its always seen in the negative. Why?[/quote]
Not an expert, the truth is out there. Just dun live in denial that's all. If you guys think I talk nonsense and/or something not real here from my statement, then please forgive me. Keep on ignoring them.
[quote comment="228589"]i heard sometimes ago, Petronas Chairman said Malaysian oil produce more diesel then petrol..strangely we have a very poor diesel in our market and the usage is also very low..
maybe this is to protect P1 as they have no diesel engine ? hurm..[/quote]
could it even occur to you that petronas exports the majority of their high quality product overseas to get huge profits rather than sell in malaysia?
just to say that coz proton has no diesel engine is really stretching it.. perodua doesnt have a diesel.. likewise naza..etc.
if one were to actually study the malaysian market properly, you would know that diesels in passenger cars are still shunned by consumers.. who cares if more than 50% of cars sold in europe today are diesel? our market is different. which explains why many manufacturers do not bring in diesels. these companies have done lots of research and product planning to ensure they get the right product in. There is nothing stopping them from bringing in diesel cars if the market are ready to buy them in large enough numbers.
[quote comment="228599"]
Not an expert, the truth is out there. Just dun live in denial that's all. If you guys think I talk nonsense and/or something not real here from my statement, then please forgive me. Keep on ignoring them.[/quote]
err.. x-files?? what truth is out there?
you've said so many things, i've actually lost touch with what exactly are you referring to at the moment.
We should ourselves why diesel quality here is questionable. Can't even implement Euro 1 properly. Could that shun diesel from being introduced by others to us here ? Diesel Engines runs more efficiently and cleaner compares to petrol but why this is not realised here ? What's the reason after all we have the best diesel in the world ? Why then Europe advocate on diesel successfully ? Ask ourselves honestly again.
Arise, those countries at least think of doing an industry for the blue collar workers…in this country, the business/industry is for certain group of Cron people only, so the motive, and the result is sure different. Our expenses in car are better compare to those 2 so people sit on it comfortably, and next AP comes out like collecting money in sure do…so in an uncompetitive environment, the industries wont improve. It is the give fish to eat and learn to fish scenario from day1 since 20 years ago. In uncompetitive environment, NO ONE will improve, so wait till the competitive edge gone, and die off naturally, while those already collected $$ to spend 3 rounds of generation, but blue collar workers? well…generation by generation continue to woes.
[quote comment="228608"]We should ourselves why diesel quality here is questionable. Can't even implement Euro 1 properly. Could that shun diesel from being introduced by others to us here ? Diesel Engines runs more efficiently and cleaner compares to petrol but why this is not realised here ? What's the reason after all we have the best diesel in the world ? Why then Europe advocate on diesel successfully ? Ask ourselves honestly again.[/quote]
i gave a reason just above your posting thats known very much among the people in the motoring industry.. people in malaysia generally still shun diesels in passenger cars.
my other theory is..i believe the govt is trying to keep the cost of diesel as low as possible, as our industries rely a lot on vehicles, boats..etc. etc. that still run on cheap poor quality diesel. if euro 1 or 2 comes in, its definitely going to cost more. plus, the industry players dont need that.. and people buying a few thousand high-tech diesel cars is not going to help our local industry and economy as much as low priced diesel, albeit poorer quality.
Hey, Malaysia major profits come from Petronas. And Petronas was ranking in 8th world's most profitable company last year. But bad news is 6 more years to go our petroleum going to … dries, no income for our country. What else profit we can get from? Our tax? Come on dont just rely on Petronas. We should hope for Proton can improve and improve in this 6 years and spread its brand name to the world. They shouldn't just seek for new partner, but to change all of our brain first to think Proton is a good value quality car regardless what technology they used. Not just Proton, hope for our other car manufacturer can do it also…
Guys… Jangan gaduh2. Dulu ramai yang nak enjin diesel dari proton, tapi nak buat macam mana kalau tak ada kepakaran nak buat enjin diesel. Sekarang Proton sedang usahakan sesuatu. Mungkin enjin piawaian EURO4 sebab banyak yang dah ada dalam pasaran. Pasal minyak pulak, dah permintaan untuk kenderaan berenjin diesel peribadi agak kurang, jadi kurang kouta pengeluaran adalah sederhana sahaja. Kita tau yang minyak kita kualiti elok. Jadi diexport keluar, Duit masuk. Minyak yang tadi diproses bersama kualiti sederhana (Dari UAE). Tapi jangan takut, kualiti yang kita pakai kat sini masih 20% lebih bagus dari negara jiran. Sapa nak Exora, incoming Waja & Perdana Replacment pakai enjin 1.8L & 2.0L Diesel. Balas YES cepat.
proton first of all train their employees at service centres to do a good n proactive job…then talk bout getting good engines…
some idiot decides to unscrew my savvy's gearbox oil plug at the bottom of the pan n it has been leaking ever since…. the oil should be sucked out not drained… IDIOT. n this is at mutiara damansara SC…platinum konon…
oh ya it also happened to my frens savvy at the same SC. way to go..
[quote comment="228625"]Hey, Malaysia major profits come from Petronas. And Petronas was ranking in 8th world's most profitable company last year. But bad news is 6 more years to go our petroleum going to … dries, no income for our country. What else profit we can get from? Our tax? Come on dont just rely on Petronas. We should hope for Proton can improve and improve in this 6 years and spread its brand name to the world. They shouldn't just seek for new partner, but to change all of our brain first to think Proton is a good value quality car regardless what technology they used. Not just Proton, hope for our other car manufacturer can do it also…[/quote]
Kau tak tau ke yang Petronas dah lama buat cari gali kat luar negara ?. Dah bertahun dah tau. Yang dikatakan tu adalah berdasarkan telaga minyak yang ada sekarang. Berdasarkan data, masih ada lagi telaga minyak yang belum ditemui & diterokai. Tapi beralih kepada tenaga elektrik atau kinetik adalah lebih baik. Tapi teknologi tu masih dalam pembangunan.
No need to argue long long. Simple fact is Proton needs a diesel engine, and need it fast. So go out there and buy lah. Simple as that. And since Europe is where all the diesel technology is, I think they are looking in the right direction. Its only a matter of whether its VW group (maybe not on talking terms anymore), Renault or Peugeot. Or you prefer Fiat, BMW or Benz? Take your pick. And when the new diesel technology is here in Msia, I am sure the oil companies repond immediately with the required fuel. Cheers
NO to Renault.
There are only ten manufacturers in the world. There are pros and cons to all of them. Look for signals on how manufacturers work together previously. Case study shows all tech-transfer from Renault has failed in Malaysia. They (the French) short-change us and take us for fools on Tiara and WAJA 1.8. Compared to Mitsu (WIRA), you can see the significant differences. The engineers in Proton should know this as they went through hell trying to cope with Proton's management oversight.
Diesel is not the way to go either. It's not the tech of the future. It's a sunset tech. We should plan for the future. Not react and acquire tech just because it has worked for others. Proton should focus on biofuel and electric cars. Capacity building is the essence of developing the auto industry in Malaysia. Thanks to Lotus we now can build our own top class chassis. We can even build our own engine now but still not cost effective due to low volume. And because of volume we can't afford to develop our own transmission.
We should partner manufacturers that adds strength to our drawback. Make the electric car our very own success for example. Not just manufacture for Detroit Electric Motor's technology. In 10 years time when the whole world runs out of fuel, every manufacturer out there is ready because they plan for the future. Here we are making decisions and considerations with the green grass syndrome. Because someone has it so should we? Because nobody else wants to be our partner so we should accept Renault?
between diesel and petrol..
what ever 'what' it is, is till prefer petrol.
even when you ask 100 person. I bet 99 of them still choose petrol.
So what?
Why only proton has to go to diesel?
why not p2 that already had mofo company T & D not implement one in their machine? Perodua Myvi Diesel. Lol! Hahahaha…. i bet it gonna damn good sell.. hahahaha and lol and hahahaha again..
Sorry.. i just can't imagine a diesel of them.
But yes, for export, proton has to do diesel engine.. but what about export p2? no diesel? ask their mofo!.. Hahahaha, viva diesel.. lol hahaha…
Proton exora MPV diesel, hot cakes in turkey and UK.. wow!!! ;D
Again.. viva diesel? ahahahaha..
Aiya, argue oso no use lah… diesel quality vs. buyer of diesel cars. Like chicken and egg – give good diesel get better more efficent, less servicing costs, more mpg mah!
Right now, our diesel smell same as rotten eggs, so how to buy decent diesel car? Cannot even get chicken from that rotten egg!
So priority should be clean euro3-4 diesel and change 'rotten egg' mentality by temporary tax relief for diesel engines.
Otherwise, how to market decent Pronault cars huh?
But you think gomen care ah? If they let in euro4 diesel, tax until mampus…
Renault is ok oso. Last time Tiara used Citroen tech, not renot, so pls get fact right first. Waja 1.8 oso use renault engine and I think it is ok os. Renault has been partnering with nissan and they are doing fine. Their tech is good and has been supplying proton with excellenct engine for savvy.
every one want improved petrol.. but later when petrol improve then complain school bus fee increase also..
good laa proton want to get diesel engine. But no need bising bising laa coz who said proton want to sell the engine to you? Maybe proton want diesel engine for diesel market?
by the way, what happen to pertronas engine? they hide it because they afraid the petrol become finish even faster aa?
buy an air ticket laa and explore the thing called INTERNET EXPLORER.
After that Seeing is believing and then reading and sleeping.
[quote comment="228560"]I asked this question a few times but no one seems bother to answer to put in wrting honestly and frankly. If we compare year to year achievement with the Korean and China car manufacturers. Where do we stand once we step outside our comfort zone ? (1) Buy an air ticket to fly out of here to check out what is it like out there. Albeit, we have many handicaps given as a form of R&D, (2)massive tax preferencial treatment, (i believe these play a pivotal sales here !) , etc, you name it. But, we are even behind Thailand and Vietnam in terms of economy achievement. Investors flood these two countries. Rayong ? Detroit of the East ? Thailand export their productions to worldwide. Look at Thailand's car industry, how vibrant they are. It has provided much economy of scale anytime compares to ours here ie employment foremost, learning opportunities, R&D. (3) Our local vendors' cost is more than 100% expensive in compararison with the Japanese vendors there. But, quality wise ? (4) What have we achieved since 1985 in terms of technology ? Still can't build a proper gearbox let alone an engine. Still running on timing where others already decades ago using timing chain (for eg Nissan Sentra back in 1995). Wassalam.[/quote]
(1) Then you should know an accord or camry is more expensive OTR in Thailand than malaysia.
(2) Massive? Ask anyone who has bought a NEW car in another country. At the end of the day, the ON THE ROAD price of cars in other countries is only about 10-25% less than in malaysia for the same make/model*. Disregard internet prices.
(3) Where did that 100% come from?
(4) Believe it or not, Proton isnt that slow in development as many people think. They arent fast, but they arent slow either. Hyundai (est. 1940's) and Kia (a little later) took similar timeframes to develop their own engine. Proton is just over 20 years old ya know.
*sub 2.0L common people's cars. Yeah, 6.0L cars are a few hundred percent more pricey in malaysia.
Macam yang i kata, this all teknologi nie berguna jugak kat sesuatu tempat atau kawasan. Ambik contoh Proton rival, toyota ada pelbagai jenis enjin. Cakap aje nak jenis enjin apa diaorang ada. Tapi yang jual kat malaysia & kawasan sekitar asia jenis yang diaorang x nak pakai dah. tu yang rakyat kat sini terutama indon, Thai, philiphine & sebahagian ?.. rakyat malaysia suka ????. Tapi walau ada enjin tapi cuma upgrade aje tahun demi tahun. Cuma kodkan kod baru jadi enjin baru. ;) . Erkk… Tenaga elektrik kita berlebihan tapi kita kekurangan teknologi. Biofuel, pakai minyak sawit ?. lupakanlah… nanti tak cukup minyak nak goreng ikan kat rumah. Hydrofuel, dapat tentangan sebab ada yang kata nanti enjin cepat rosak, senang karat dll. Last sekali kita berbalah balik pasal enjin petrol x cukup power… hmmm… sendiri pilih. :>
[quote comment="228640"]Renault is ok oso. Last time Tiara used Citroen tech, not renot, so pls get fact right first. Waja 1.8 oso use renault engine and I think it is ok os. Renault has been partnering with nissan and they are doing fine. Their tech is good and has been supplying proton with excellenct engine for savvy.[/quote]
ya… thats correct. Savvy do study renault clio williams to built his platform. Please open nissan GL hood version Diesel. Technology Renault. Satu lagi CEO Nissan tu pun CEO Renault gak. Kerjasama develope teknologi tak salah. Yang tak kena tu kalau rebadge aje.
Maybe proton can get better deal from Renault as its not as big as the germans and the french government are happy to fund their automotive industry as well?
So same situation as proton
[quote comment="228636"]between diesel and petrol..
what ever 'what' it is, is till prefer petrol.
even when you ask 100 person. I bet 99 of them still choose petrol.
So what?
Why only proton has to go to diesel?
why not p2 that already had mofo company T & D not implement one in their machine? Perodua Myvi Diesel. Lol! Hahahaha…. i bet it gonna damn good sell.. hahahaha and lol and hahahaha again..
Sorry.. i just can't imagine a diesel of them.
But yes, for export, proton has to do diesel engine.. but what about export p2? no diesel? ask their mofo!.. Hahahaha, viva diesel.. lol hahaha…
Proton exora MPV diesel, hot cakes in turkey and UK.. wow!!! ;D
Again.. viva diesel? ahahahaha..[/quote]
well diesel technology need to have some education on the public… this blog's traffic shows how many young ppl out there which are tech-savvy and gets the latest news of the automotive industry…
i have driven a renault clio 1.5dci before… just pump full tank 40 liters… and u have a minimum of 800km range… and a crusing range of over 1000km… of course u need to drive sedately to get that figures, but with diesel prices slightly lower than petrol all over the world… diesel FC can be on par with the latest hybrid cars in terms of FC… there is still an ongoing case which the Prius claims that its the most economical cars are being challenged by VW wif its diesel car in Europe?
[quote comment="228679"][quote comment="228636"]between diesel and petrol..
what ever 'what' it is, is till prefer petrol.
even when you ask 100 person. I bet 99 of them still choose petrol.
So what?
Why only proton has to go to diesel?
why not p2 that already had mofo company T & D not implement one in their machine? Perodua Myvi Diesel. Lol! Hahahaha…. i bet it gonna damn good sell.. hahahaha and lol and hahahaha again..
Sorry.. i just can't imagine a diesel of them.
But yes, for export, proton has to do diesel engine.. but what about export p2? no diesel? ask their mofo!.. Hahahaha, viva diesel.. lol hahaha…
Proton exora MPV diesel, hot cakes in turkey and UK.. wow!!! ;D
Again.. viva diesel? ahahahaha..[/quote]
well diesel technology need to have some education on the public… this blog's traffic shows how many young ppl out there which are tech-savvy and gets the latest news of the automotive industry…
i have driven a renault clio 1.5dci before… just pump full tank 40 liters… and u have a minimum of 800km range… and a crusing range of over 1000km… of course u need to drive sedately to get that figures, but with diesel prices slightly lower than petrol all over the world… diesel FC can be on par with the latest hybrid cars in terms of FC… there is still an ongoing case which the Prius claims that its the most economical cars are being challenged by VW wif its diesel car in Europe?[/quote]
sori… 55 liters full tank actually…
i like reading all the comment given here… all giving opinions but none giving any ideas.. I'm working in the line that I know how many parents sent their children studying abroad ( they said good education… there is a customer of mine know how many bulding in her campus in UK… why go to uk to count building) in all majors… why don't some of us rich people open a company and create or develope our own diesel engine… if saying getting enjin from renult will be the old version why not create our own.. but the problem with malaysian.. when we create our own enjin… bashing everywhere… (bak kata melayu.. cakap tak serupa bikin)… I'm a proud owner of campro's engine car and doing my own project to make the engine more reliable.. If I from local gradute can do it.. why not all of us… so lets give ways to improve rather then empty comments
happy driving
future savvy sedan?
ex proton employee told me that campro engine REALLY eaten up their cash reserve..
way to go!!
what wrong with cronyism….if same one is good to do job why not but if do bad job that the problem..i do the same thing i prefer him/her that i know n do a good job than other that i do not know whether him/her is better or not..this cronyism rite.do i m wrong here? opposition do the gov also do, my friend do n i thing u do also so who's wrong here? or the person who accuse? or none wrong?
sorry out off topic..my 0.0000001cent
hope those equipment in the car wont fall off after 1 year ..
[quote comment="228685"]what wrong with cronyism….if same one is good to do job why not but if do bad job that the problem..i do the same thing i prefer him/her that i know n do a good job than other that i do not know whether him/her is better or not..this cronyism rite.do i m wrong here? opposition do the gov also do, my friend do n i thing u do also so who's wrong here? or the person who accuse? or none wrong?
sorry out off topic..my 0.0000001cent[/quote]
u still don't get it aa? The problem is when the so called cronies produce sub standard products and create problems for masses. People won't give a damn about which company produce the power window, but if itgive problems on and on, people cannot tahan anymore la
good decision, but whether it will be fruitful or not depends on time.
the nissan renault alliance is pretty sweet btw, both ways benefitting from each other. wonder when will proton become like this with volkswagen. lol.
Previously it was about a fully electric car, now its about diesel engine. All the best.
Renault's mechanical is a bit suspect, but their structural engineering is top notch, the crash worthiness of their cars are consistently among the best. Proton should get body structural engineering tech transfer from Renault
Guys, no need 2 b excited…our diesel quality sucks and we don't have the infrastructure…..
Nice topic here…Proton is Asian car maker continental-oriented..so better for them to JV with Renault…
Guys, I heard next week launched EXORA have problem regarding its drive shaft.. I don't know what exactly problem since I curi2 dengar from Proton's engineer…Sifu any comments??????
Arise,
I am neither blind basher nor freaking protonian.
I read with great interest your argument on the state of our auto industry, especially related to Proton.
1. NAP is design not to give competitive advantage (i.e. extensive R & D incentive, attract FDI in auto sector, etc), but protective exclusive policy by manipulate the pricing of the car, e.g. imposed high tax on imported car. This policy does not see the trees in the forest but one deadwood!
2. Imposing AP – It is a policy to restrict certain movement of goods and services by set quota on it. AP is design to restrict the nos. of car to be imported, thus create superficial shortage and lead to "over demand", thus drive the price up. This lead to either the buyer can't afford it, or get other brand. Since AP given out free, thus creating AP Kings/Queens and creating instant maggie mee billionaire.
3. From Protonomic perspective, the above main policies enable them to survive not because of high quality and competitively price product. But absolute tech and relatively low in safety. To argue this with Protonian, it is like argue until cow come home. They always come out with congratulatory statements like "good job", "well done", create job, outflow of monies if purchase import mades, "small player can't compare with T or H", etc. everytime new models come out!
What the hack, the naked truth is if we compare to Thailand's Rayong, ours Tg Malim auto hub is just peanut. Take the following e.g.
1. Thai export more than 1 million cars, and the domestic volume is similar to us.
Say the average one car is 50K x 1 Million = 50 Billion turnover.
Say profit is 5% = 2.5 Billion
Japs and Conti FDI tax contribute to Thai G @ 28% = 700 Million – "BIG FISH AND PRAWN.
For domestic, say 300K car supposed is local made compare to Malaysia, therefore loss due to no local product = 300K x 50K x 5% = 750 Million turnover. Tax contribute to G 750 Million x 28% = 210 Million
Net Gain for Open Policy vis-a-vis NAP = 700 M – 210 M = 490 Million
2. Malaysia P1 & P2 export around 50K car per annum.
Say 50K x 50K = 250 Million
Say profits (that consider lucky) is 10% = 25 Million,
Tax contribute to Malaysian G @ 28% = 2 Million – PEANUT
The naked reality are:
1. Thai Open Policy earn the G = 490 Million in foreign income from export
2. Malaysia NAP earn the G = 2 Million in foreign income from export
3. This does not include domestic benefits like more job opportunity created in Thai for making more car. Our NAP is total failure in term of earning foreign income and benefit the rakyat in term of good quality and affordable price car.
Yup, although bodohland seems to post this in the wrong section. But i agree it…
I already long seen the effects of NAP which chase away a lot of foreign companies from investing in our country. The only thing that the certain "Bumi" are happy coz their pocket is full of money due to AP and croni of some dealership. The G dont care about country economics, if the G are good in math and economics, we are sure more better compare to Singapore or even Brunei… But still until today we are still losing to both of them and Thailand & Indonesia is climbing up to catch our butt… Time to wake up Malaysian!
Just throw away diesel engine or just buy from renault, you don't have to develope one.
Keep advancing Electric Vehicle.
It's the future.
there goes again Nap, crony,racist crap again….
Bodohland…just want to ask u a simple question….what happen if all T,H,or what soever leave thailand when their business case not feasible anymore due to higher operation cost, labour n so on?….investor can come and go…the main important thing is to sustain the economy for long term period….Japan is full with small medium company that wholly owned by the japanese. that why their economy is stable, and money not easily flown out of the country….That why our country is late to get affected to receive impact on economy downturn on two economic crisis…not like our neighbour….
and to you littlefire please stop your racist insult…i warn you…i just wondering why u are so confident saying bumi is granted all the business related to government and GLC because i am in that business where by i can see that almost 60% of the vendor is non bumi….dont talk like you know everything because you read it on the net…because it show how ignorant you are….
Bodohland said:
1. Thai Open Policy earn the G = 490 Million in foreign income from export
2. Malaysia NAP earn the G = 2 Million in foreign income from export
But the Malaysian G got billions in income from imports… (import taxes, duty, and roadtax)
assuming 500k vehicle sold in Malaysia yearly, if 1/3 CKD or fully imported, we got 150k. if in average each car got tax of 10k, we got RM1.5 billion of taxes…
It is not "foreign income", but most of the money stays in the country. — means less deficit.
Who is smarter?.
[quote comment="228822"]there goes again Nap, crony,racist crap again….
Bodohland…just want to ask u a simple question….what happen if all T,H,or what soever leave thailand when their business case not feasible anymore due to higher operation cost, labour n so on?….investor can come and go…the main important thing is to sustain the economy for long term period….Japan is full with small medium company that wholly owned by the japanese. that why their economy is stable, and money not easily flown out of the country….That why our country is late to get affected to receive impact on economy downturn on two economic crisis…not like our neighbour….
and to you littlefire please stop your racist insult…i warn you…i just wondering why u are so confident saying bumi is granted all the business related to government and GLC because i am in that business where by i can see that almost 60% of the vendor is non bumi….dont talk like you know everything because you read it on the net…because it show how ignorant you are….[/quote]
i almost certianly think littlefire is commenting about the way AP is being distributed… we all know the NAP is limiting the movement of goods like what bodohland has said… but APs being given away to certain people within the society is not right… who has the right to determine who gets the AP? why not us? why not open tender? who wants to import cars, they buy the AP directly from govt… why not? u got RM2 mil cash and wanna buy a lamborghini, RM1mil for lamborghini and RM1 mil for AP… thats a profit of RM1 mil for our govt, and I am sure these ppl can afford the RM2mil… or u can buy APs in bulk if u wanna be a dealer… it creates business opportunities for business-minded ppl…
In Singapore Renault turbodiesel commercial vehicles are very popular thus the parts are getting less expensive.Renault engine is more reliable with asian climate due to collaboration with Nissan.Fist thing first the govt need to reduce the diesel tax imposed on private cars then we can talk more on the diesel cars.Turbodiesel is very reliable,Fuel efficient and more affordable than petrol ones.I dun mind if there's plan for Saga 1.5 turbodiesel or Perdana 2.2TDI.The acceleration is much more quicker w/o compromising much on your FC.
for long term benefit…i support G to protect proton. we need our own car industry. not just making for others company. but our OWN company. n for diesel engine, i support proton if they decide to learn/transfer tech rather than just buy it. Buy diesel engine or follow thai footstep may benefit our country for certain period. Y take thai as example? y dont we take japan?.
The most simple logic is..
1) proton providing more jobs to the workers than a H/T hub? It provide more suppliers to use low quality product to earn much of course, but the real workers who can benefit? or isnt that the aim of an industry?
2) isnt the G says they want to help to public? the policy is not helping the public at all, but benefits a group of ppl.
3) Proton is a very good initiative of a national product, but shld be on the expenses of tax payer money nor consumer rights. After 20years, if managed by the aim of target to give the public a robust car with competitive price, we wont even have this argument. We need to look forward, not backward but imposing unfair policies to the consumers.
[quote comment="228822"]there goes again Nap, crony,racist crap again….
Bodohland…just want to ask u a simple question….what happen if all T,H,or what soever leave thailand when their business case not feasible anymore due to higher operation cost, labour n so on?….investor can come and go…the main important thing is to sustain the economy for long term period….Japan is full with small medium company that wholly owned by the japanese. that why their economy is stable, and money not easily flown out of the country….That why our country is late to get affected to receive impact on economy downturn on two economic crisis…not like our neighbour….
and to you littlefire please stop your racist insult…i warn you…i just wondering why u are so confident saying bumi is granted all the business related to government and GLC because i am in that business where by i can see that almost 60% of the vendor is non bumi….dont talk like you know everything because you read it on the net…because it show how ignorant you are….[/quote]
I second that…In SG non majority will act like the poet says"If you're in tiger den then behave like a tiger".That's why even we're in 2nd or third class we still survive and still earn a bit.
i agrees with chap on the gov contractors…most of them arent bumi…i can definitely say im not malay :P im really disappointed at chinese in malaysia, if u guys still thinks v r suprior? go out n look at our youngsters…u call that future?
For those who often complain about Proton this and Proton that, I recommend reading The Honda Myth about Honda. You'll see the progression of Honda from old to today. They were just like Proton in their early days! One of their Keicars was considered a death-trap! Old Hondas were rustbuckets! It took them more than 20 years to get to where they are today!
tiadaid .honda a rustbucket I second that…. own one,rusting at every body panel. ketuk here this month another one next month.
what to do to import lamborghoni :
1) contact automobili lamborghini s.p.a in Italy for distributership/agent status
2) open up showroom to sell cars
3) find partners for your company (30% bumi)
4) approach G for AP (with evidence of agent/distributorship status, infrastructure) for how many cars that you want to bring in. A will be given based on the number that you estimate to sell.
If you want to buy for private use then it will be different.
[quote comment="228582"]what's Continental AG ?[/quote]
speak like u know all, but none…
[quote comment="228723"]Renault's mechanical is a bit suspect, but their structural engineering is top notch, the crash worthiness of their cars are consistently among the best. Proton should get body structural engineering tech transfer from Renault[/quote]
why should?
we have lotus for it… its enough i think…
Yeah… can dream of replacing the Satria CamPro CPS with Satria R26 edi… go go go proton
chap-de-x,
You make a hypothetical yet unsubstantiate assumption! Why don't make assumption how about Tsunami hit Shah Alam & Tg Malim and brought down P1 car factories? Close shop and everything finish!
RT,
Who is smart,
——————–
Thailand is smart come out with open policy that earn foreign income.
NAP is mentally challenged policy design to suck dry the rakyat by imposing prohibitive tax.
Unfortunately, you argument is the stupidity of highest order! "Give me all your monies, because the monies is still inside Malaysia!!!!!!!!"
[quote comment="228989"]tiadaid .honda a rustbucket I second that…. own one,rusting at every body panel. ketuk here this month another one next month.
what to do to import lamborghoni :
1) contact automobili lamborghini s.p.a in Italy for distributership/agent status
2) open up showroom to sell cars
3) find partners for your company (30% bumi)
4) approach G for AP (with evidence of agent/distributorship status, infrastructure) for how many cars that you want to bring in. A will be given based on the number that you estimate to sell.
If you want to buy for private use then it will be different.[/quote]
u kno why only certain ppl got AP? because they manage to do item no. 1 said by biggie.
dcwhz83, item 2,3 & 4 is quite easy to do. ok mebbe not no 4.. but then item 1 is the most important… u have to get the contract to sell their cars. U have to convince those luxury car manufacturer to get the contract / dealership…. and remind you.. not all ppl can do that…..
Hey Paul
any news about proton and perodua merger?
thanks!
Hello basher,
If u feel u r good pls apply this USA Green Card Lottery
www.usagcls.com. Hope u can find peace here. waka kaa kaa
If Proton need diesel engines fast, then buy Renault engines, after all Renault now owns Nissan. If Proton have more time, then can make own diesel engines, collaborating with Ricardo Engineering in Sussex UK.