who will support our industry if malaysian are just thinking bout others mat salleh's technologies or japanese….be in mind that all of those developed nation has start way too long ago…I believe all you guys still eating belacan too…like me..think positive..n rational…mustang not come out yesterday…monaco circuit not built at 99…corolla ae86 not just launched yesterday….do we expect lotus F1 team operation match with toyota or ferrari? If you don;t like to embrace your nationality, better go berambus to japan..

what is that savvy light commercial vehicle? any interesting pics?

i think we dun have it in malaysia?

buat suspen lagi…..

jiwa merana woooooo

as i mentioned earlier, u cannot judge whether p1 had made improvement or not for their pw because u did it outside p1 sc.

i'm not denying previously p1 had a bad image on quality, but it has been largely improved and i never said that it is already perfect. u cannot compare p1 when they produced their second car gen2, with the newer products, it is like judge 2 years child to behave like 7 years old child rite mate .

tq everyone for their opinions. highly appreciated. yeah, it is good to prepare for the future but p1 must consider the most suitable gb for their engine. not all 6 at is suitable for all engines,sometimes 4 at perform better than 6 at, try to drive the new cruze 1.6 with 6 at,then u will understand what i mean. For bigger output engine, 6 at will suit them better .em, i think better u wait n see what p1 will offer to u in the future and what is the tech behind it. and please dont compare the time when p1 make its campro engine with p1 capability nowadays. even previously it takes more than 2 years to produce waja and now its only take 18 month to produce exora (including create a new platform). p1 is now progressing at a faster pace compare to before.

the only thing that i can said that next year and onwards, there are many exiting products will come out from p1 and some are quite a suprised even for some unlicensed "Malaysian Automotive Engineer" out there . prepare to be amaze…ha…ha…adios amigos…

less sporty character.

it purposely to mantain the sweet spot of torque band, without having to work hard like higher HP car,

so it floats within torque.

if turbo campro, its less likely to use CVT. i think..

for example honda city 1.5 idsi,

8 valve (considerably low hp)

8 valve (good torque)

intelligent double sequential ignition (at low end it burn the fuel thoroghly to extract more)

correct me , just my view.

For the new transmission, my personal preference would be a 6-speed auto (I don't like CVT) for the Exora, and a 6-speed Manual for Proton's 2-door hatch.

Im not whether u r one of the engineer, but IMO you should skip 5AT.

Go to 6AT directly. Phoenix project is until 2011. First model to feature this engine might be launched around 2012.. It is like 3 more years to go. And knowing proton, u might want to capitalize this over 5 6 years or maybe more. which means until 2017 or 2018.

Dont you think 5AT is a little bit too outdated by that time? Heck even new myvi may have 5 AT already by that time. Dont afraid to be diff.. Think about the lifespan of the engine. If you r too cost conscious now, you might loose competition at the later half of the lifespan..

Look for campro for instance, u design cps to be fitted with campro but somehow cps was not there from the very first beginning. After u fitted cps.. the mechanism is already outdated. Perodua even have the same mechanism if not better.

Dont forget proton does not have capacity nor the scale to keep developing engine every 3 years. Once u guys decided to do so… use the latest technology that will still be fresh over the time… 6AT might be expensive now but do you know how will it be by end 2011? it might become more mainstream and hence cheaper. Same goes to twinclucth. Even now the boring Ford sedan has it. Consider the future and the relevance in ur current design.

CVT no comment. Ever wonder why CVT model not selling like hot cake.. I dont know why too… even lancer gt people keep saying if not CVT I would buy..

As u involve in the industry, u might want to do some market research and see why CVT does not really doing as expected (or may be it does.. i dont know)… Sometime engineer think it is good but the consumers dont want it. what to do?

btw 2011 is long way to go… Fill the gap with new and exciting offerings.. Maybe waja maybe perdana?? or else consumer will not have the patient to wait that long..

October 20, 2009 @ 9:47 pm

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True story, my wife gen2 replace pwr window at 2 years warranty time almost remain 2 months before expiry. After 3 months, which warranty already expired it broke again. if i go to SC at that time, would they replace it FOC for me? somemore need make booking + 4hrs fixing time? I've already calculated the cost and it will cheaper to replace it at accesories shop and i did it. Does it make sense for you if you were me at that time?

Actually is not only pwr window but too many problem for my wife gen2 i can't remember all. 1. 1 week after delivery-front suspension noise tak tak tak replace after 3 times went to SC. (1st and 2nd time SC fix by tighten underbody bolt). 2. Steering miss-align. 4 times went to SC (not solved) went to under tree mechanic solved by insert bush made by mineral water bottle to steering column. 3rd Transmission lever light burn. replace at SC by 2 times visit. waiting part 3 weeks. 4. RR door lock jammed-replace under warranty at SC. 5. FR door handle broken. 6 Acclerator pedal sensor problem. replace at SC. 7. pwr window problem replace at SC but broken again. 8. Air cond not cold. replace at SC air control unit 1 set-OK. many-many more..now pwr window switch stuck, pwr window rr problem 3rd time not yet fixed. HVAC flap noise. That's why i'm very pain now. Can i get i-care caring after 4 years of ownership??

October 20, 2009 @ 1:41 pm

To Automotive_Critics,

Please change your name to “I don’t know Automotive” TQ

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Thekang, you're not fair to me. Automotive can be meaning a lot not only restricted to engineering and technology only. There is a lot of people in Research house e.g Kenanga, Maybank securities etc is working flat out in order to safeguard the total automotive industry chain in Malaysia even they do not know what on earth is CPS mechanism meaning. Believe or not, they are also in automotive industry.

If you're in the automotive industry, please look in wider view and you may learn to respect others. I admit my comment is mostly out of topic but i think paul doesn't restrict such comment as long as there is no racial or provocative comment. err..you're theking or really thekang? confuse.

……………………………………………………………………………………………..

Tq for ur constructive comments to p1, it is highly appreciated

…………………………………………………………………………………………….

For my wife Gen2 pwr window, i don’t want to go to SC again since the 2nd time problem required 4hrs to be fixed. I had repair it at accesories shop cost abt RM100. Pls ask your i-care to investigate why replacement part broke again after 3 months. That job would be meaningful rather than promoting their services. Thanks.

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firstly, i'm not promoting the i-care. it is the right procedure to report. it is normal for every car company in the world if the owner itself do a report to the right channel. maybe what happened to ur pw car is an isolated case or under ppm and its already being checked by p1 but nobody perfect, we may unnoticed it and there are many PERHAPS and MAYBE since u send it outside but since it still cover under warranty, why u go to outside workshops and waste ur money. if it cannot be repaired, p1 will replace a new unit for u. since u do a repair job outside, u shud not blame p1 for that.

which p sc do u go, is it p1 branch sc or authorised sc? or is it eon sc or eon authorised sc? previously there are no centralised computer system and it is not easy to trace the problems except the sc report back the repeated problems. thats why I-CARE exist to help owners to report back to p1. EON and P1 also using different centralised system. That's why i asked u to report. u have to use the right channel. example, if ur car has been stolen, u have to lodged report to the police before u claim ur insurrance. u cannot just ask the insurance to pay back to u without any official report including report number and the matter need to be investigate before verify and claim being process. u cannot just ask one policeman, ask him to write report for u or just told the insurance company to payback to you or just talk and talk in the forum and blame the insurance company even u dont lodge any report. be real man. thats why u need to keep ur official receipt when u buy something.

are u clear with procedure? but since u repair it using outside workshop but u continue to blame p1, so you are being unfair to p1. u shud blame ur self. thats why u dont see any improvement of the pw mechanism since u do ur car outside but when u talk it seems that ur being in p1 sc every year and every time. what about service? do u continue service in p1 sc or outside? if u service ouside,when do u start service outside?what year and how many kilometres that u have covered when u start service outside?

Don't be mad at me, i just want u to understand that not to just assuming or forecasting something that u r not sure and being a fortune teller.

but still really appreciate ur comments and recommendations and now i know that another cased that customer change parts/repairs outside but blamming p1. please remembered that parts sell outside maybe being label the parts original but actually is not original.thanks for the info.

and this is for all of p1 users, please lodged report if u r not satisfied with the service, problems or parts and even the salesman. please stated their name, branch and receipt number if needed. p1 really need every feedback from the users. tq.

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em, tq for kuchiki,awak,faghmee,intermilan and etc opinions on the gb. relly appreciated ur opinions. maybe some will meet ur suggestions, some may not , but rest assure, p1 and the partners are in working perfecting the pheonix. maybe 6mt/5at/cvt will serve u well in the future with cuting edge technology Ha…ha…who knows what is coming…….;-). hope fully we are clear lads….adios amigos…240nmore to go…

i agree proton varies the campro, in several satges for designated model and purpose.

but with the vvt come in,

iafm and vim will certainly phased out. because vvt (if it continous type) is more precision and torque is more instant, iafm or vim is 2 stage tune might be something a bit behind.

and anyway vvt can incorprate with cps for the advantage of higher peak torque and horsepower.

for the gearbox we hope 2500rpm at 100kmh. in other word, relax torquey engine,

Please change your name to "I don't know Automotive" TQ.

I don’t see any wrong with my nickname. It just justify myself.

…

__________________________

You might wanna drop the S if you're just you alone though

October 19, 2009 @ 10:53 pm

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360, keep Proton development on track and don't forget design aspect also. Current Proton design language should be totally refresh. Sorry for my (harsh?) comment but it should be constructive to you.

For my wife Gen2 pwr window, i don't want to go to SC again since the 2nd time problem required 4hrs to be fixed. I had repair it at accesories shop cost abt RM100. Pls ask your i-care to investigate why replacement part broke again after 3 months. That job would be meaningful rather than promoting their services. Thanks.

i would suggest that proton make a clear line between economy & performance.

for economy

1. campro vvt with iafm+, matched with cvt.

model: saga sedan & saga hatchbk, persona, savvy replacement.

for slightly-above-economy

2. campro vvt with iafm+ or cps, match with 6mt or 6at.

model: exora, persona & persona hatchbk (gen2), neo, savvy replacement.

for "performance".

3. campro turbo, match with 6mt or 6at.

model: exora se, persona se & persona hatchbk se (gen2 se), neo gti.

for safety features, std: rigid chassis & stability, abs, ebd, dual-airbags.

for fit&finish: continuous checking.

for SC: send those mechanics for training.

for marketing: do marketing!

October 20, 2009 @ 9:09 am

To Automotive_Critics,

Please change your name to Non Automotive_Critics! TQ

—————-

I don't see any wrong with my nickname. It just justify myself. If my nick is Automotive_Engineer then i admit. I don't see any of my comments could mislead others but some comment can consider constructive to Proton if they want to accept but if not then i do it for charity or else as Paul is not restricting.

Please change your name to Non Automotive_Critics! TQ.

maybe i could join next teh tarik session haha…

actually i really concern on this phoenix project, especially powertrain related part…

knowledge sharing is important, so people will be convinced with p1 capabilities right?

i admit cvt might not the best solution for auto t/m but we better try than do nothing…

turbo engine also need time to fix calibration, emission, testing etc…

similar to transmission, development and validation is still required…

to all forum members, just wait until 2011, let the development continues…

no one will buy to our product if we made it like kuih raya…

"quoted from acritics This is simple. Because it’s product planning. The vios feels so ergonomics with centre console mounted meter and flat rear floor with good driving position. Plus good exterior design gives it best for both world (stylish and comfort). The Lexus is more driver oriented luxury cars and should be design as what they are positioned in."

so thats ur answer if toyota made, but what happened if it is p1 …but i dont still understand on Lexus be driver oriented, according toyota, the centre console is better for driver than conventional meter console, so if lexus is driver oriented, it supposed to have centre console rite .

it doesnt matter, it is ur own opinion, i respect that. i just want to rectify some misinformation on p1, thats all. whether auto, cvt, manual or be it amt, it has its own pro and cons, so dont just said that some makes better than others if they are simply the same (I mean the same segment cars and same category such as gen2, persona, vios and honda city). every car has its won pro and cons, just dont belittle p1 because it is made in malaysia, p1 also has its own quality that the other makes doesnt have.

i admit that previously, p1 had a bad track record, the new ceo just joining p1 in 2005, so it just 4 years, give him time, there are still a lot of room of improvement. u must remember, is not easy to change everything in a day because it involve contracts and agreements that old management had make. just tell me the truth whether u have seen any improvement from year 2006 until now or not???

I believe in 5 more years time stating next year, u will see many colors of p1 that u have never seen before. and how's ur gen2, have lodged the report that i've told u before and which sc actually u change ur pwindows? maybe ur info can help others so they will not be scam by the irresponsible sc before its been investigate due to your official report.

cvt is good becoz it has better torque transfer from low rpm compare to conventional auto, but it doesnt have that special feeling that conventional transmission give u, and if u change any cvt cars mufler to sporty one, the sound will be flat and retiring, if u know what i'm talking about. so both have pro and cons. but for me, because of the importance of fc in our life nowadays, it is the better choice in the future (because dual clutch is quite expensive to produce).

ok, adios amigos, love to hear more opinions on p1 future transmission whether 5/6 speed manual, 5/6 speed auto and cvt. just for fun k .

the gears in CVT determined by gap of the drive or driven pulley…

this gap will be adjusted by a variator that gets input from tcu…

push belt will transfer input rotation from engine to output shaft…

then from output shaft, it goes to differential and lastly to driveshaft…

actually, the pulley surface is smooth, no physical gear…

that is why cvt is special, you can set up to 10 ratios if you want to…

but normally calibration team will set optimum ratio selection for best performance…

mitsubishi lancer got 6 in sport mode, previous honda city got 7 in shift button mode…

p/s: push belt in cvt is not made from rubber, it is still metal…so cvt suppliers have their own secret technology to ensure durability of contact surface of metals (push belt and pulley)…

October 19, 2009 @ 7:59 pm

conclusion, Auto critics is stupid about technical and like to talk and act like a pro…lol..his comment about cvt this show who he really are..lol auto critic have u ever thinking to do homework/googling about cvt..lol

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Don't judge the book by it's cover..sometimes, some people is working undercover. They might know and might not.

October 19, 2009 @ 7:56 pm

Automotive_Critics,

CVT does not have gears except for differential…

CVT is using pulleys, drive pulley on input shaft and driven pulley on output shaft…

connecting those two pulleys is push belt, this kind of T/M had been introduced long time ago by Honda, if i am not wrong…

latest update, Nissan uses CVT with chain belt, not push belt anymore…

too advance lol…

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Kichiki, thanks for your explanation. My understanding was it doesn't have mechanical gear at all means that how the belt pulls the shaft. So it does has gear to transfer the rotational force generated between gears.