Comments on: BMW working on vehicle heat management to help reduce fuel consumption and CO2 emissions http://paultan.org/2009/10/21/bmw-working-on-vehicle-heat-management-to-help-reduce-fuel-consumption-and-co2-emissions/ Paul Tan on the Automotive Industry Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:25:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: icyd http://paultan.org/2009/10/21/bmw-working-on-vehicle-heat-management-to-help-reduce-fuel-consumption-and-co2-emissions/#comment-272066 icyd Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:04:16 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=16759#comment-272066 we need extra cooling here.not contain more heat we need extra cooling here.not contain more heat

]]> By: Jimmy Dean http://paultan.org/2009/10/21/bmw-working-on-vehicle-heat-management-to-help-reduce-fuel-consumption-and-co2-emissions/#comment-268167 Jimmy Dean Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:51:01 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=16759#comment-268167 It is not pointless as the exhaust engine temperature is really in the range of several hundreds degrees celcius compared with relatively low outside air temperature range between 0 and maybe high around 50 deg C. So the temperature diffrence might be around 300 deg C in winter and just 250 deg C in summer or in middle east. The material used is typically special type of alloy which has p-n junction (electron rich on one side and electron deprived on the other side). When heated the electrons jump into higher energy level and move accross the p-n junction and you have electricity. Typical type of alloy used is bismuth telluride. The tricky part is not the heat source but how to maintain high temperature difference to get maximum current output accross the p-n junction. Typically water jacket and small radiator system is used to carry the heat away from the thermoelectric chip. One possible use of the peltier chip is to power up a blower fan over the barbecued satay, heat source from the satay fire. It is not pointless as the exhaust engine temperature is really in the range of several hundreds degrees celcius compared with relatively low outside air temperature range between 0 and maybe high around 50 deg C. So the temperature diffrence might be around 300 deg C in winter and just 250 deg C in summer or in middle east. The material used is typically special type of alloy which has p-n junction (electron rich on one side and electron deprived on the other side). When heated the electrons jump into higher energy level and move accross the p-n junction and you have electricity. Typical type of alloy used is bismuth telluride. The tricky part is not the heat source but how to maintain high temperature difference to get maximum current output accross the p-n junction. Typically water jacket and small radiator system is used to carry the heat away from the thermoelectric chip.

One possible use of the peltier chip is to power up a blower fan over the barbecued satay, heat source from the satay fire.

]]> By: azrai http://paultan.org/2009/10/21/bmw-working-on-vehicle-heat-management-to-help-reduce-fuel-consumption-and-co2-emissions/#comment-268132 azrai Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:47:50 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=16759#comment-268132 Even cows release so many CO2. Haha. Even cows release so many CO2. Haha.

]]> By: Netz http://paultan.org/2009/10/21/bmw-working-on-vehicle-heat-management-to-help-reduce-fuel-consumption-and-co2-emissions/#comment-268063 Netz Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:33:05 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=16759#comment-268063 Great idea for cold countries.... how about the people in South East Asia.... were heat is one of the cause of engine & transmission failure. Is BMW going to install aircon in the engine compartment. Ha ha ha..... Anyway were just small revenue channel for BMW AG so we are not priority. cheers.... Great idea for cold countries…. how about the people in South East Asia….
were heat is one of the cause of engine & transmission failure. Is BMW going to install aircon in the engine compartment. Ha ha ha….. Anyway were just small revenue channel for BMW AG so we are not priority. cheers….

]]> By: duka http://paultan.org/2009/10/21/bmw-working-on-vehicle-heat-management-to-help-reduce-fuel-consumption-and-co2-emissions/#comment-268025 duka Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:37:30 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=16759#comment-268025 overheating? overheating?

]]> By: binarumah.com http://paultan.org/2009/10/21/bmw-working-on-vehicle-heat-management-to-help-reduce-fuel-consumption-and-co2-emissions/#comment-268012 binarumah.com Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:56:43 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=16759#comment-268012 This is what I like about the Germans. They keep on thinking of other possible opportunities to make things better. Hmm..but big company like BMW of course la can do this kind of research. This is what I like about the Germans. They keep on thinking of other possible opportunities to make things better. Hmm..but big company like BMW of course la can do this kind of research.

]]> By: mystvearn http://paultan.org/2009/10/21/bmw-working-on-vehicle-heat-management-to-help-reduce-fuel-consumption-and-co2-emissions/#comment-268009 mystvearn Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:11:18 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=16759#comment-268009 Looks like what BMW is doing is placing their engines in one big thermos, then when you need it, the heat is still there. Not so sure about the heat to electricity part as the heat is conserved to warm the engine right. So how will the same system work to generate electricity? Also, I think that kind of technology will be a bit pointless in Malaysia since its always hot... Looks like what BMW is doing is placing their engines in one big thermos, then when you need it, the heat is still there. Not so sure about the heat to electricity part as the heat is conserved to warm the engine right. So how will the same system work to generate electricity? Also, I think that kind of technology will be a bit pointless in Malaysia since its always hot…

]]> By: bobdbilder http://paultan.org/2009/10/21/bmw-working-on-vehicle-heat-management-to-help-reduce-fuel-consumption-and-co2-emissions/#comment-267994 bobdbilder Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:11:55 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=16759#comment-267994 I mean the heat management stuff. Some Czech guy already has a patent in the 90s to actually convert heat to assist the engine. I mean the heat management stuff. Some Czech guy already has a patent in the 90s to actually convert heat to assist the engine.

]]> By: bobdbilder http://paultan.org/2009/10/21/bmw-working-on-vehicle-heat-management-to-help-reduce-fuel-consumption-and-co2-emissions/#comment-267993 bobdbilder Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:08:16 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=16759#comment-267993 Try making the car lighter and you reduce the need for more power. All BMW wants is to put more value added USPs to the car, and ends up putting more weight to the car. I wonder if it had tried using light alloys for the chassis. Or a 2 stroke engine? You know, less moving parts, less friction... All those expensive developments would not benefit us in the tropics though Try making the car lighter and you reduce the need for more power. All BMW wants is to put more value added USPs to the car, and ends up putting more weight to the car. I wonder if it had tried using light alloys for the chassis. Or a 2 stroke engine? You know, less moving parts, less friction…

All those expensive developments would not benefit us in the tropics though

]]> By: shawal http://paultan.org/2009/10/21/bmw-working-on-vehicle-heat-management-to-help-reduce-fuel-consumption-and-co2-emissions/#comment-267992 shawal Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:08:14 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=16759#comment-267992 Daihatsu is working on a 2 cylinder turbo engine on a small car that prolly can go 100mpg, y not combine that engine plus 2 extra cylinder more (lightweight), sort of on-demand power, when more ppl are inside the car, going uphill to genting... and the computer wizadry to calculate all the power needed is powered by this BMW technology. I'm from KL and a big car is pointless, however, My zippy (RM40 a week on fuel) savvy does feel very2 sluggish when more than 2 ppl on-board. The future is still petrol! Daihatsu is working on a 2 cylinder turbo engine on a small car that prolly can go 100mpg, y not combine that engine plus 2 extra cylinder more (lightweight), sort of on-demand power, when more ppl are inside the car, going uphill to genting… and the computer wizadry to calculate all the power needed is powered by this BMW technology. I’m from KL and a big car is pointless, however, My zippy (RM40 a week on fuel) savvy does feel very2 sluggish when more than 2 ppl on-board. The future is still petrol!

]]> By: Jimmy Dean http://paultan.org/2009/10/21/bmw-working-on-vehicle-heat-management-to-help-reduce-fuel-consumption-and-co2-emissions/#comment-267984 Jimmy Dean Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:14:00 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=16759#comment-267984 High temperature peltier chip used as thermoelectric generator is a good idea. However, at present the maximum energy conversion efficiency is about 8% and you have to maintain a really large temperature difference accross the thin peltier chip. If let say 30% of the energy is loss as heat through the exhaust gas and we can recover only 8% of that. For a 150 kW engine, 30% is 45 kW and if let say we can only recover a fraction, maybe 20% of the theoretically possible 8% efficiency (you can't cover the whole engine and the exhaust with peltier chips). So perhaps we can recover: 20% x 8% x 45 kW = 720 Watt from the exhaust gas waste heat. Perhaps enough to provide additional power for the entertainment systems or GPS or some other things. High temperature peltier chip used as thermoelectric generator is a good idea. However, at present the maximum energy conversion efficiency is about 8% and you have to maintain a really large temperature difference accross the thin peltier chip. If let say 30% of the energy is loss as heat through the exhaust gas and we can recover only 8% of that. For a 150 kW engine, 30% is 45 kW and if let say we can only recover a fraction, maybe 20% of the theoretically possible 8% efficiency (you can’t cover the whole engine and the exhaust with peltier chips). So perhaps we can recover: 20% x 8% x 45 kW = 720 Watt from the exhaust gas waste heat. Perhaps enough to provide additional power for the entertainment systems or GPS or some other things.

]]> By: scanzew http://paultan.org/2009/10/21/bmw-working-on-vehicle-heat-management-to-help-reduce-fuel-consumption-and-co2-emissions/#comment-267973 scanzew Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:33:10 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=16759#comment-267973 bmw 320d...nice 0-100km/h at 8 sec....haha just refer column besides bmw 320d…nice 0-100km/h at 8 sec….haha just refer column besides

]]> By: scanzew http://paultan.org/2009/10/21/bmw-working-on-vehicle-heat-management-to-help-reduce-fuel-consumption-and-co2-emissions/#comment-267972 scanzew Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:31:30 +0000 http://paultan.org/?p=16759#comment-267972 my dream car!!!!white colour huhu my dream car!!!!white colour huhu

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