Comments on: BAIC BE701 – a self-developed electric car?

By: squawk

squawk — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:21:24 +0000

Thanks for enlightening, Ciaran.

By: Ciaran Murphy

Ciaran Murphy — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:03:29 +0000

Patents are not a good way to count innovation/technology.

The rules are different in each country so you can not compare a German patent to an American patent.

In the US it is relatively easy and cheap to get a patent, but they are not very strong in court. You do not have to prove originality to get the patent. If someone then challenges the patent in court then the court will decide if the patent was valid/orginal in the first place. The American system makes it easy for large companies to apply for many patents that they do not deserve. They get a lot of money from people to licence the patent because a small guy will not take them to court.

In Germany (and most of Europe) you must prove that you idea is original first before they grant the patent.

So lets say I have a problem, and I come up with a clever solution. In Germany when you apply for the patent you must explain the problem that you were trying to solve. They give this problem to some experts in the same field with the same constraints as you. If there solution is even close to your solution then you don't get the patent! in the US no checking beforehand… only in court!

In Europe you are not allowed to patent software… only physical things or processes. So there is lots of invention in Europe that is not counted in patents.

If you see something clever and think "hey that clever, it might help me in my problem". Now your problem is totally separate and unrelated but what you saw gave you 'creative spark'. In the US your idea can be patented in Europe no… because you 'transferred' from an existing idea.

So unless you know how difficult the system is you can not compare. I have no idea how strict the Chinese patent system is… but I know the European system is far stricter than American

By: squawk

squawk — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:52:59 +0000

I don't doubt that there's still holes in their enforcement. But if you watch news from China, especially the provincial/state ones, you'll find that they're more vocal/open to expose or criticize the shortcomings of the local authorities/govt. And this is a communist country.

Actually, what I heard was from a buyer. They have no manufacturing presence in China. They go there to source for goods and were just clarifying that they're not there primarily because of the low cost as what is generally perceived.

By: Mohd

Mohd — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:12:28 +0000

squawk said,
November 18, 2009 @ 8:17 pm
'Thanks for the link, Mohd, though it’s for US patents and you’ve quoted pre 1995 figures.'

Uups, your absolutely right. I was in the wrong column…

Worlwide patents 2009:
1st Japan: 36679
2nd Germany: 10086
3rd Soth Korea: 8731

Taiwan: 7779
Hong Kong: 717
People's Republic of China: 1874

Still poor for a country with 1.4 billion, right ? Namely, if you compare tiny Malaysia's 168 worldwide patents in 2008.

Don't get me wrong: I honor the inventions of ancient China, but I still doubt that Europeans nowadays go there for technology and innovations. They simply go there, because they can throw their toxic production waste into the chinese Landscape without any government action. Even in the chinese press there are reports about it: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-02/24/con…

By: squawk

squawk — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:17:36 +0000

Thanks for the link, Mohd, though it's for US patents and you've quoted pre 1995 figures.

I made a mistake too. I quoted China domestic patents, not worldwide. But you can refer to this article – http://tvnz.co.nz/technology-news/china-lead-in-p…

Although ancient China is known for such inventions as the printing press, compass, gunpowder etc, a few years ago they had done a domestic survey and the 4 great modern inventions picked were – high yield hybrid rice (1970s), laser photocomposition system for Chinese character typesetting (1980s), complete synthesis of bovine insulin (1960s), compound artemether (malaria medicine, 1960s).

By: man

man — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:04:38 +0000

Looks like camry.

By: drgn86

drgn86 — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:40:57 +0000

Mohd, maybe you've never heard of fireworks, the earthquake-sensing device from ancient china, these are the examples, long before the west came along… so look properly before asking a lame question…

By: Mohd

Mohd — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:48:11 +0000

squawk said,
November 18, 2009 @ 1:11 pm
'Mohd, you obviously don’t read much. Go look up CapitalBio, a biotech co spun off from Tsinghua University.
In 2008, China was granted 200,000 patents. You don’t get that from copying.'

This information is wrong and (of course) without source.

Worldwide patents in 2008:
1st Japan: 260680
2nd Germany: 122171
3rd UK: 47503

Taiwan: 9217
Hong Kong: 1831

And now comes the technology advanced People's Republic of China: 377

In comarison: Liechtenstein, with a population of 34,761 (!) has 261..

Malaysia has 96, which is much better than China, as they have a population of 1.4 billion while Malaysia has a population of 26 million…

Source: http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/ido/oeip/taf/…

By: gie7

gie7 — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:30:33 +0000

terfikir plak camne perkembangan kerete proton yang usaha sama dengan detroit elektrik….ape cite skrang ni ar..China adalah negara yang bersedia sebelum membuka ekonominya…sekiranya ingin memasarkan kereta, pembuat kereta luar perlu melabur sebilangan amout…yang membuatkan hanya pembuat yang serius akan melabur dan bukan yang selepas abil faedah pelaburan, mereka lari…

By: squawk

squawk — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:11:18 +0000

Mohd, you obviously don't read much. Go look up CapitalBio, a biotech co spun off from Tsinghua University.

In 2008, China was granted 200,000 patents. You don't get that from copying.

By: NoNoP2

NoNoP2 — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:49:39 +0000

CHINA is indeed moving fast. But they're using reverse engineering. It may look good from the outside, but no one knows what the crash rating would be. Their market is bigger (biggest?) so that is another advantage why they're moving fast.

Anyway, this is just CLONING technology. They'll never stop cloning!

By: Head Hunter

Head Hunter — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 07:48:52 +0000

The name for this car is just too generic, there's no identity.

Toyota gets the name from its founder, Toyoda, Mercedes, embodiment of a pretty girl. Proton, well, subatomic particle with an electric charge of +1 elementary change (It sounds cool, you get the idea).

Hey, when you come to think of it, Proton should focus on making EVs since the name suggests electric charges and subatomic particles!

Anyway, this car, with that beautiful look, deserves a name that can be remembered.

That is the only way you can sell a car. Maybe AICHI or TAITON. Hehehe..

By: Mohd

Mohd — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:10:09 +0000

squawk said,

November 17, 2009 @ 3:57 pm

'This was heard from a European buyer – they (I assume him and his comrades) don’t go to China because of cheap things. They go to check out the technology and innovations.'

Maybe you didn't understand the European's sarcasm ?

Aha, European buyers go to China to check out technology and innovations ? What technology ? What innovations ? Tell me just ONE innovation or technology from China…

By: Voon

Voon — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:50:35 +0000

mkrafz said,

November 17, 2009 @ 9:57 am

learn from them?

r u out of yor mind?

please define ’self-develop’…

more to ’self-copying’ to me…

at glace, the front rip-off from toyota camry+hyndai equus

for them self-develop=copying the tech+fluid car design+really2 i’m mean really.. bad name.

comment?

yes…can you built one ??

Ask yourself…

comment?

By: ignas

ignas — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 22:45:22 +0000

why does P1 or P2 need to go thru hassle for self develop whereas they can just pay re-badged licenses with citizen's money? after all government is still protecting them, its a win win situation for them.

national issues aside, i do find generally china automakers' way of naming is quite communism and they don't have much design sense in cars' exterior. maybe they can build too fast till they don't have the time to study and build their own identity. well, that just me.

By: csv

csv — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:30:23 +0000

hey, its a pretty good looking car considering its birthplace, just change the grill and we got a winner. but still, someone has to be the guinea pig to test it out first.

By: squawk

squawk — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:43:02 +0000

So I luv Malaysia, even the VWs, Buicks, Audis in China are crap?

By: BW

BW — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:18:38 +0000

wow nice car… Hope its not a copy and paste thing again

By: I luv Malaysia

I luv Malaysia — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:06:12 +0000

even china has population bout 1.2 billions, but still they still couldnt built really good cars..so far all CHINA cars are craps and rubbish. At least malaysia with the population bout 27 millions could built not bad car so far. Proud to be Malaysian…Dont care what people wanna say about Proton but they are much2 better. Even though they didn't produce EV or what so ever yet. it doesnt matter. one day they will.

By: mystvearn

mystvearn — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:39:23 +0000

Proton should be very worried. If BAIC can make this concept car, they can make it. That car looks more like production model. And China can make it cheap,

By: squawk

squawk — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:57:53 +0000

This was heard from a European buyer – they (I assume him and his comrades) don't go to China because of cheap things. They go to check out the technology and innovations.

I've seen some China manufacturers' abilities and I know why US, Japan & Europe are afraid of them. All those Made in China things we get here are their low quality goods because the people who bring them in probably want bigger profit margin.

Made in China goods are ok. Made in China food…….

By: Mazda 3 MPS

Mazda 3 MPS — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:34:57 +0000

this is a nissan…..

By: azrai

azrai — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:53:36 +0000

This is the advantage of high population. Remember those days when Dr.M target 80million population of Malaysian.

By: alpha999

alpha999 — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:16:12 +0000

yes….China fast becoming the biggest, longest, top, no 1……in whatever field…….

also they have been a significant increase in China chinese students in US universities….

soon the smartest brains….CHINA

By: saki77

saki77 — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:04:59 +0000

BAIK BETOI…hehe,,nice….

By: dzulx

dzulx — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:49:23 +0000

Kim…

"Plus we are MALAYSIAN Chinese… NOT China Chinese. Why we must belittle our own country? "

I thought we are MALAYSIAN??

Cannot understand Malaysian Chinese, Malaysian Malay or Malaysian Indian…:D

Cheers…

BTW yeah… we must not belittle our own country..

But frankly China is so scary.. They r moving too fast.. Very impressive indeed..

Been living there for a while… and I have no doubt they will be the biggest player anytime soon…

By: scottloeb

scottloeb — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:49:22 +0000

Looks very much like the Hyundai Genesis, the ones Maradona ride to meet the FIFA officials few days ago.

By: Tito

Tito — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:03:57 +0000

It looks like Hyundai Equus….. 'copying' again? 0.0

By: NoNoP2

NoNoP2 — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:59:35 +0000

I think this car is a clone from Hyundai Genesis. Self-claimed made in China.

By: Kim

Kim — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:27:01 +0000

Plus we are MALAYSIAN Chinese… NOT China Chinese. Why we must belittle our own country?

Some people like in here are the problem why others are skeptical towards us in our own country, MALAYSIA.