While European automakers have gone the engine downsizing and forced induction route for an entire generation of cars now, Asian automakers such as Toyota, Honda and Mazda have not fully embraced the idea yet.
The only Asian carmaker that has announced a small displacement downsized engine that I can remember in the past year is Nissan with their MR16DDT 1.6 litre and H4Jt 1.4 litre inline-4 turbocharged engines, and i suspect even that is because of Renault influence. Honda dabbled with a turbocharged 2.3 litre i-VTEC turbo 4-potter for the US market but they’ve not announced a new internal combustion engine in a very long time, which is a little disappointing for a car company who used to be known for their engines. Their last major announcement was AVTEC and then nothing!
But with the latest round of Euro emission standards coming around we are starting to see this change as Toyota have just announced that it intends to increase the Toyota fleet’s fuel efficiency via turbochargers and direct fuel injection in smaller vehicles. According to Toyota executive vice president in charge of R&D Takeshi Uchiyamada, turbochargers and direct injection will soon be a regular feature in the entire Toyota line-up, including bread and butter models like the Corolla and the Camry.
The new 1.33 litre 1NR-FE featured in cars like the Euro market Auris, Yaris, iQ could be a prime candidate to receive this technology. It’s Toyota’s newest 4 cylinder engine family and features Dual VVT-i and auto start-stop technology. The high compression ratio of 11.5:1 would have to be brought down to something like 9.5:1 to 10.5:1 of course.
From the normally aspirated 101hp and 132Nm at a lowish 3,800rpm, we could see it brought up to something like 130hp-150hp and 180Nm-200Nm to replace the bigger engines in the Corolla.
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like 5-10 years later than european car. lol.
now they become follower instead of trend setter.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong about being a follower… Since the Asian manufacturers have always improved on whatever technology the European manufacturers introduce and make them more reliable and cost effective.
This is one thing the European manufacturers found it hard to emulate… Just look at the reliability index every year.
Just my 2 cents.
well, low tech stuff are usually long lasting. compare the old nokia and the iphone.
But if the plan for the number 1 car maker to step back and play safe, then i feel sorry about that.
well, we only heard about, the car with european handling, never before we heard about a car with jap handling. :) , and jap is trying hard to keep up with european brand. Hence the lexus and infinity.
simple, cheap and reliable, jap car. Flashy car, european car. :)
i guess you have never heard of the mazda miata roadster then.
I guess you never knew the miata’s “father” is an orang putih working with Proton now
miata is fun driving, not european handling. lol.
u saw ppl go to serious racetrack with miata? miata is for road driving.
its all fun about fun in miata.
Lotus elise is great handling, did ppl say lotus elise is fun? come on.
i heard now lotus ride and handling
and it’s undeniably superb!
excellent comment!
imagine if everyone is a follower, who will lead????
True in the sense that the Japs were merely innovators while the Europeans were the inventors.. but innovation has its merits..
It is of course, Toyota’s direction to do things the traditional way of ensuring the car is reliable before any new gizzmos are put in.
If tech is all you want then the EU’s are definitely there, but like what Gump said, there’s a price to pay. When it backfires, so does the reliable tests/surveys reveal.
Very good comments..
my comments is only
“Let’s invent A car like Flintstone”
More green and more efficient..
hahaha..
Err Nissan Juke has a 1.6 turbo that produces 190 bhp
nissan slogan: “swift” the future…
it SHIFT_the future
er, nissan has GTR 3.8 liter twin turbo somemore.
Thats my dear is a renault engine…their parent co…
I mean the 1.6 Turbo small engine in the Juke
They are waking up as the recent intention of Volkswagen taking no#1 place by 2018. Sometimes do wonder, the money we pay to Jap makes are technically many decade of the same technology, like torque converter has been around ages, they are just adding more speed/gear to it. Like variable valve, everyone is banging on it for so many years, Honda being the pioneer of variable valve technology is still doing the same thing, i see the VVTI, VTEC, DVVT, VVT…….the list goes, practically in every Jap and Korean car.
Correction mate, Fiat was the first to develop VVTI/VTEC and Alfa Romeo was the first to introduce it in production cars… Back in the 80s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_valve_timing
thanks for the correction, nothing against the japs but one replied that japs are innovators and not inventors, in which is true, what they have learned after WWII was just barely splitting the product up and do reverse engineering and making it better, but they are not inventing new stuff. just take camry for instance, what new technology is there? take vios, is that car worth that price? at least a city has better tech. also one replied that they are merely selling on the name in which many of my family member still do and stubbornly not looking into other make of cars, first thing that comes into mind of buying a car is toyota, toyota, toyota, toyota and toyota, nothing at the koreans or other makes.
even the servicing only now toyota goes for 10,000km interval, others like H or N still goes for 5,000km.
anyway this would go on forever.
That is the power of branding.
‘Coca-cola’ the brand itself worth 80billion USD. Which is 65% of the whole company value. Do you drink Coca-cola ? Sorry I have quitted, even for Mac Value Meal i change my coke for coffee.
And I dont understand about your service interval claim !? Do you know what is the service interval for a brand new C Class ?
Toyota’s VVT-I, Honda’s VTEC have proven to be reliable over these decade.
Introducing Turbos by them may not be a good thing.
Do read up about how “good” turbo engines are through online like forums . These ranges from BMW’s, Hyundai-Kia’s GDI,etc.
Just my 2 cents
all u guys talk about turbo here turbo there…nobody can prove how good and reliability all these new ‘hyped’ generations engines compared to those proven less horses engines.u dont need 300 more horses to send ur kids to school meh….lol
Europe already proven that turbocharged engine have less emission, besides that diesel turbocharged engine have better milleage compare to petrol. If they is no benefit, they is no point of manufacturer putting in 1 and sell it to public claming that it is less emission + better FC. Do mind you, that their inspection center are more advance compare to our puspakom and they do test the emission test seriously as it may involve emission tax or different insurance category..
The only drawback for modern turbocharged engine is that u need more attention to take care of the engine itself. A lot of forums even mechanics recommends that you need to install a auto turbo timer to prevent the turbo from over ‘cooked’ from high revving and cool down the engine before really turning it off.. If you are just a normal road user, i dont think all these will bother you also.
I have lost respect for Japanese car makers years ago. They have done absolutely nothing notable to move automotive technology forward. Their drivetrain technology has long been stagnant behind the Germans. The Koreans for all intents and purposes have over taken the Japanese. Look at Hyundai/Kia’s stonking 2.0 turbocharged engine, for example. VW’s CEO, Martin Winterkorn has the utmost respect for Hyundai and fears them more so than Toyota.
in 1990-2010, jap car basically continue their reliability effort( not entirely) and started the thing call hybrid car.
and they only live on their brand name.
now, they are in danger. VW and korean are coming!!
How could you forgotten that Hyundai-Kia already gotten their 2.0Turbo engine to replace their V6 in Sonata? Avante, Accent, Sonata, Forte, Optima are already equipped with GDI, have they embrace the idea?
But sadly bolehlander still like T&H no matter what.
Yes, they have, for the larger displacement engines. Sorry, when I was writing the story, I was thinking of smaller engines like 1.4 to 1.6 turbos to replace 2.0 to 2.4 normally aspirated engines.
Paul, Its about economics rather than size of engine. When the Germans do it the returns comes in fast as European have high buying power and as such a 1.8l CGI engine in the E class benz or 1.4l engine on a GOLF makes economic sense. But when Hyundai does it prices of the vehicle is not as high commanding as the European makes, as such it can only be justified to have the GDI turbo charged engines on vehicles which maker a higher margins e.g. Sonata 2.0 T GDI. rather than small engines for smaller vehicles which can’t command enough margins / premiums
Rhys.
Daihatsu already have quite a lot of small 660cc to 1300cc turbocharged engine.. I think they can also borrow some turbo tech from there also..
YES!! L200. Put in inside kancil and out run BMW 320.
i remember…. the 1985 Charade G11 turbo. and of course, the pocket rocket 1987 Charade G100 GTti.
japanese they focus more on cars that easy to live with. european brands are more passionate. but europeans do have down-to-earth cars for daily use like the Ford Fiesta 1.0. or BMW 518i. even japanese trying to adapt with Toyota Yaris 1.0 and Honda Fit 1.2.
eh? i always thought they had small <1Litre engines with turbocharging…..like in Daihatsu (which is owned by Toyota anyway).
Finally the Japs learns….Japs was allows known for their fantastic build quality but gutless engine.
At last Honda/Toyota/Japs’s engineers figure out that people don’t give a toss about F1 inspired, rev happy engines. For everyday use people want torque, at low revs. Turbo petrol or diesel with good FC (low rev = low FC).
Enthusiasts still love naturally aspirated engines that are rev happy. But I agree that for mass-produced cars, turbos are the way forward.
But, again people, stop bashing Toyota.
Yeap agreed…but we are talking about normal everyday usage. Unless u owned an oil refinery, those high revving natural aspirated I-Vtec/VVTi/watever… etc belong to the race track
Dissapointed with the Jap’s ?? Even P1 can’t come up with a decen 1.8/2.0it engine
after so much R&D .. why bother to rebadge the Lancer.
If the Europeans produce such good engines then what was DSZ
and his P1 mgnt. thinking during the twice failed merger with VW.
Self pride and ego ruled the day perhaps !!!
please read more
proton has turbocharged engine,
will fit into exora turbo
i wonder when the campro turbo will come out? now their inspira time, next is about proton hybric.
1.6 turbo engine can easily get the power of 1.8 or 2.0 NA engine
why bother with it?
and better torque at low rev…save fuel
Erm…
Mitsubishi also released turbos charged engines in their Evos series.
Same as Subaru in its STI series.
Mitsubishi also has its 1.8l turbo engine as a special edition of the previous generation of Mitsu Lancer.
Just my 2 cents
the article talks about turbo in everyday cars, not special versions, where turbos are used for efficiency rather than performance.
Adding turbos would probably meant improving the driving performance of the car. Because improving driving performance would probably mean it would probably be lesser fuel efficient as compared to the similar cc cylinder.
IMO, Its quite hard to find to find a balance in between fuel efficient and performance. One factor would probably to “sacrifice” for the other.
Bro…for easy ref, just compare the FC of the Polo 1.2 Turbo wt any Japs 1.5/1.6 ivtec/vvti/watever …..Polo have better Torque, power and FC
and more expensive..
STI and Evos are totally in different leagues.
Instead of fuel efficient,they are the fuel thirst drinking monster!!!
Not to mention high CO2 emission.
In my opinion of ECO car, the near future still belongs to force induction small displacement engine instead of Hybrid electrical cars, most ppl still won’t want to invest their money in Hybrid cars.
just hope more models shift to under 2.0 and still give the power :)
Policy’s a B**CH, in both good and bad way. The EU emission standard and Kyoto Protocol can help to reduce GHG thus slow down global warming.
On another hand, those car-makers which don’t jump into the bandwagon of diesel powered, EV, Hybrid, clean turbo-charged will not be able to sell cars in that continent.
really glad now toyota have return to turbo…………during 90s……..toyota is famous for its reliable and powerful sportscar with turbocharged engine …..such as celica gt-4 (2.0 turbo 3sgte) and supra (3.0 turbo 2zjgte )……
turbo engine have more parts and slightly less reliable compare to naturally aspirated…….but have much more power in mid and high rpm…………and with cheap modification will unleash a lot of power.
maybe several years from now we can hear loud blow-off valve sound from vios and altis………..hehehe
They were, but the Japanese are known to be followers of automotive tech rather then on the bleeding edge. (They take and idea, and make it better….)
If you want to know the inspiration of the legendary Toyota turbo monsters, it’s the Audi Quattro and the Lancia Delta Intergrale and the preceeding Group B monsters.
The Europeans have been running force fed engines in their cars for ages, and it was not reliability that killed it. It was emissions. Turbo diesels never fell out of favour with europeans.
Turbo engines are un-reliable is because of your “cheap modifications that unleash a lot of power”…and nothing more. You run something beyond its design specification and you’d shorten its lifespan. Simple.
I agree wiv you.
To add up,I feel that Turbo engines were not popular before might due to the reliability. Old days material engineering was not so advance thus material use for turbo charged engine might not up to date and tense to failed more often.
I’m sure old days they know there are good material that can take on the challenge, but then sure price is the main issue.
Japanese are basically producing cheaper cars old days, thus they did not venture in Turbo charged engine.
Just my opinion.
they go for turbo not for blow off thingy and super duper power car for racing… they go for turbo just for efficiency, better fuel consumption at small cc…
I wonder why some malaysians keep thinking that TURBO=RACING…
Then how about those pick-ups? Most of them are turbocharged also, does that mean they all are Racing pick-ups?!? LOL~!
By the way, as i still own a L502 turbo kancil, if you light foot on ur pedal below the max 0.6 boost (If can below 0.3 boost is the best). Turbo is quite fuel efficient compare to N/A! I have manage to fetch 4 adults driving up to genting without changing my stick on first & 2nd gear, mostly is from 3rd gear above! So imagine how much fuel u can save without high revving ur car all the time with all the torque u can get from turbo!
The fuel efficiency age is waiting for us. In the future I would like to drive a car which can go more than 1000 km with a single tank, possibly a plug in hybrid :].
In the future, I’d like to have superefficient solar panels on my car roof so I can pecut like crazy without needing fuel, and it also stores enough energy for night drive.
(Hey, if you’re gonna dream, dream big, right?)
LOL
The last generation VW Jetta (or Bora, Vento or whatever they call it here) already does 1000km per tank on its 1.9 TDI.
The future is already here….just not in Malaysia yet.
Ya it’s a realistic future we’ll have, thanks man :].
SPOT ON bro!…most modern diesel can easily do 1000km wt a full tank. But, we don’t have those modern diesel here….fyi, a Fiesta diesel 1.6 econetic use less fuel compared to the hybrid Prius…we really miss those high tech diesel here
Euro go for Diesel, Japanese goes for Hybrid & EV
reminds me of :
” its like investing billion for a pen that can writes underwater, Euro only uses pencil for the job…. “
Furthermore, the Japs will be further left behind once Euro started to produce Hybrid diesel….started already by Pug 3008 hybrid,….bigger car, more POWER & TORQUE wt FC equal to Prius…
Japs, u need to start embracing diesel or left behind…..Korean are already good wt diesel (eg..2.2 R series Diesel)…..
The Japanese may be a little behind, but I think they’ll be able to make up for it. They seem to excel more in reinnovation of existing tech, than creating new ones. Perhaps they’re a little cautious to see whether a certain type of tech works safely, is widely accepted, no big disadvantages, etc, before they work on it.
Hmm, this combined with Honda’s future ASIMO tech should prove interesting.
sad to see ASIMO fell few years ago…
recently there a news about a human like female robot…. with full face expression…
damn cool….
Go and ask your friends who study in Japan. Forget about those top universites. For any ciplak university in Japan….more than one hundred team would take part in their annual ROBOT competition. Robot whick make coffee, robot for typing, robot to clean your ass after you do your business…….. ect ect.
Long way for us to reach that level lah ! I remember a private college in KL bought a robotic arm years back and appear in the newspaper for advertisement :) My ex japanese company in shah alam has more than a thousand robotic arm which is more advance than this….all imported from japan
Lol… we have robot competition which held every year…
More than 50 teams participated in that competition… each team has minimum 3 to 5 robots…. that’s mean more than 150 robots produced by our college/uni students every year and this statistic only valid for this robot competition…. We have many robot competitions throughout a year (robot maze, etc etc)….
This translate that our guys are also capable… the only things that we are lack off is the thinking…. our people always think that our students are less capable…. thinking that the japs is the bestest people of all time…. Yes they are good but we also can be that good… we just need more time…
Oh really which university are you from, please tell everybody here. I will go and see what kind of robot you guys are making ?
there are many…
1st robot competition (robot contest/ROBOCON) which organised by ministry of higher education/SIRIM…. check out the latest robocon list of participated teams….
http://www.robofest.org.my/teamlist.asp
unfortunately, you need to try search in the internet for the pictures….. you can just type robocon at youtube and see how the games look like….
2nd robot gamez… or robot wars….
http://www.uniten.edu.my/newhome/content_list.asp?ContentID=3803
organised by uniten…. again need to search for the pictures…..
3rd robot maze…. this one i forgot which university organised…. but quite a number of teams participated in this contest…..
and there are many others….. but the biggest one is the robocon….. most of them were built for competition…. maybe government need to think about organizing an innovative robot competition so that these universities can participate with a robot that can type in a computer just like what the japanese does…..
sorry… i cant click reply at your comment… dunno why…
ViosUser…
Have you ever heard ROBOCON? If not… go and figure out…
Dont feel sorry zoro please, I am really interested to know what robots is that ! :)
hahaha please read this link poseted by zoro…..the highest raking university in Malaysia……Universiti Malaya —- 2 teams !
Look at this ciplak university world ranking 2329 (Much worst than UM), every year more than 100 teams participate in yheir university INTERNAL robot competition
http://www.micro.mse.kyutech.ac.jp/MM/EnglishNew/purport.html
You wanna tell me ALL the robots at Tanjung Malim are made in Malaysia ?
I really wanna salute you.
At– tention, SALUTE !
if i am not mistaken…. those inside the tanjung malim plan are not from the japanese…. they are from the germans, KUKA industrial robot… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KUKA.. but i am not sure… perhaps someone here can clarify this…
please try search it in youtube…. the team who win that competition will represent Malaysia in Asia robot competition… and if you wanna know, japan who are also in that competition has been crushed by vietnam or even malaysia… see this link… http://www.roboconegypt2010.com/game-results.pdf … the result of the latest robocon 2010 which held at cairo egypt… japan in the same team with malaysia… and malaysia went through the second round…. see what i mean…???? this is the final game between vietnam and china… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoNSw84SKO4
i am not saying that they are bad or anything…. i just wanna say that we also have this kind of competition…. lol… and we can also build robot… if you wanna brag, everything from the japan is good… then so be it…. ok…
the Actroid :) you should also go look for the Geminoid.
The ASIMO that I was talking about is the more recent one, they connected a device that reads impulses in your brain (basically a mind reader) with an ASIMO robot, so that it can be controlled by thought. Right now the tech is super bulky, but Honda hopes to utilize this device in everyday lifestyle (e.g., think it’s too hot, aircon auto on, think about the car boot, it auto pop open)
wish that robot will be launched soon, so to replace thousand of indon maid in Msia…
Come on “transformer”, they too have families to feed and most of them are force to work out of poverty. Try to think back at your side, would you want a robot to replace your work?
ok… this is a good move and alot of T fans will be delighted. however all the while we are been catergorized as 3rd world country by our own UMW by bring us striped down over-price models.
A similar 1.4 TSI camry hmm possible but not in malaysia….
if campro 1.6 turbo cvvt in the pipe line.
in order to be in the trend campro 1.3 also need to be turboed.
or turbo diesel is should be eyed for the hunger for cheap fuel consumption,
well be waiting
“The high compression ratio of 11.5:1 would have to be brought down to something like 9.5:1 to 10.5:1 of course. ”
Not necessary. If done properly with Direct injection, and more precise engine management system (especially spark timing and multipulse fuel injection systems) you can have high compression with force feeding. Way back 10 years ago, Mitsubishi’s 1.8 GDI Turbo is already running 10:1 (if not mistaken VWs EA113 Turbo runs 10.5:1 today).
I’m sure if there is anyone that can improve this, it would be the Japanese.
After all, dropping compression ratios down sacrifices efficiency over higher (upper rpm) power. Precicely disregarding the point of these small turbo engines.
With today’s highly efficient VGTs you don’t need to run a lot of boost, hence the ability to run higher compression to get more lower end response as compared to the days I ran 7.8:1 and almost 2 bars of boost….and having to deal with lag till nearly 4000rpm…..and a on/off turbo response.
I don’t think anyone runs boost on 11.5:1 from the factory right now, even with direct injection. I am aware that VW is using 10.5:1, and Renault-Nissan uses 9.5:1, hence I cited that example range.
Last I dynoed, my engine was running 0.8 bar on 10.2:1 compression, conventional port injection. But the engine only experiences 0.8 bar at redline… it’s not a turbo. I’ve added an intercooler now to reduce boost and cool charge temp. Haven’t dyno!
Currently yes, but i expect compression ratios to be much higher in the next generation of turbo-direct injection engines. Its certianly not impossible.
Turbo diesels run well over 30:1 and for petrol engines, its just how you position the intake charge to get most out of it….. on top of it, many new fuel blends contain ethanol mix, which makes for a higher octane number.
Didn’t Mercedes come up with the Diesotto (sp?) Petrol/Diesel hybrid? with some mad compression ratios?
Not long ago, a 10.2 compression engine was …..well..considered High even for a N/A. we were stuck on 8.5:1 for turbo engines for a good part of 10 years.
Interesting time to come indeed.
it’s about time…
I think somebody in our country knows what he was doing….and this company likes to use small displacements engines too….hmmm…
something like what proton is doing now . suddenly proton seems like heading tot he right path . lol .
‘…Toyota entire line-up,’ I guess what it means is in JDM, Europe and US.
Even the Camry 2.0L now is still the 4-speed auto, and the engines in Fortuner and Innova is just…
Let us hope this era come soon, and the cars with this new tech are not overpriced. Toyota are well known to put in old tech in their new cars, at least in Malaysia. Will it be that only the high-end models get the new tech, not the Vios/Avanza/Innova/Fortuner(3rd-world-country cars)?
The hot and high revving Campro engine will
not be able to withstand the heat generated by turbo chargers.
Just ditch the darn engine as it has also failed in the
emission controls dept.!!
its a bolt on turbo,
its all been reassest to take the turbo, like cooling system and thus.
proton is not producing a bolt on turbo to an NA engine.
atually its under pheonix project which they did revise the capability of the engine to take on the turbo, every aspect is designed to take the additional stress of the higher engine capacity alike.
I wanna dedicate Toni Braxton – Yesterday to the Japanese automakers. They are so “yesterday”. Even the Japanese themselves are moving to Continentals. The Japanese automaker should make more varieties of sporty cars with personality. and please, get rid of the 4-speed auto. They are so ancient.
Ancient? Personality? Tell that to P1 first.
Tell me which P1 car comes with a 6 speed gearbox?
Come-on! look at yourself b4 commenting on others.
we know toyota is the best car in the world.
but now we are talking about UMW toyota in malaysia.
inspira has 6 speed cvt auto tranny, you still don’t know?
“Tell me which P1 car comes with a 6 speed gearbox?”
The answer : inspira
thats from mitsubishi..
CONTI COPYCAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hahaha………of coz we can’t compare reliability of standard nat aspr engine to modified turbo one……….must compare both in factory stock condition lah………
which one less “masuk bengkel” after…..say 100,000km milage?
what ever it is, still a conti copycat for toyota in MY. sorry T owner, you’re just it. take it down your throat dearly okay?
Toyota have always been conservative. Look how long it took them to go from RWD to FWD. It seems to me that they like to ensure that new technology is reliable before they adopt it. The other thing I like about Toyotas is that they don’t insult our intelligence by making have space saving spare wheels. I think Japanese cars are the best and probably Toyotas, Subarus and Hondas are the best Japanese cars. It must be the Kaizen culture. Go Toyota! Love my new Auris.
Service interval, normally for euro cars it should be around 12,000km, VW now is 15,000km or 1 year.
jap makes should be moving towards these time frame as it will save us the hassle of calling up to make appointment every 3 months, like 4 times a year. for a person who drives more in a year, i do like 5 times in a year.
Toyota is already at 10,000km or 6 months which is a nice idea. other Jap makes should follow.