When news broke that Group Lotus was buying into the Renault F1 Team, one of the more popular questions was why couldn’t they just invest in Tony Fernandes’ Team Lotus. Wouldn’t that have solved the issue of a Lotus vs Lotus battle on next year’s Formula 1 grid and in the courts? Group Lotus CEO Dany Bahar shed some light on the matter at a media lunch in London.
Apparently, there were such moves, but the other side made it too difficult, and too costly for Group Lotus. “A question that has come up many times was why did you not find an amicable solution with Tony Fernandes? Well we tried,” he said.
“Let me just say when the counter proposals are so ridiculous and absurd, it makes no sense to continue these discussions. And if you can go with a top five team that is maybe one third of the cost that was asked by the other side, then that makes sense.
“We do not have the financial resources, and we don’t have the time to invest in a newly formed team that really deserves respect. By buying into an existing one which is well financed, which has the right partners in there, it was just the more conservative approach and we just wanted to fight at the top end of the grid. And that should not sound disrespectful to anyone, but we have such an ambitious plan ahead of us, we don’t want to lose time and we want to support the brand out there”.
What were the hurdles? “We were not afraid of partnering with Mr Fernandes, but as I said, there is one way that Lotus does business – and this is getting involved and not just putting the logo on the car. We need to be involved in the management. We need to take decisions together. We need to fund it together as well, which is fine, but it cannot just be that we are seen as a sponsor, we pay the cheque and everything else is run by someone else. That is something that we will never do. And even if it is a public perception, it will never happen,” Bahar clarified.
On the many arrows that are flying his way, the ex-Ferrari employee said: “Although the public perception is I am the bad guy and I am doing everything I can to sabotage them, this is complete nonsense. You cannot imagine that Dany Bahar can influence prime ministers, the board of Lotus, the board of Proton, the shareholders. There are so many people involved and it would not make sense!”
Looking to sell your car? Sell it with Carro.
This time TF cannot make money from lotus… hahahahhaha…after this the fare to fly will increase…. hahahhahahaha
well, Dany Bahar hit the right spot!!
It’s good to hear that.
how much tony ask for money from PROTON haaa?
hopefully everybody can fly.. kesian tony kesian tony
Must slap this Tony Kaw Kaw lah, dont ever think he can do everything, the airasia ground crew is the worse, LOTUS is from proton, not from this call Tony Fer…., must give him a lession.
now the pieces all coming together bit by bit to solve the puzzle… to feed the general public with the truth & overall ‘picture’ of the whole story…. as i said it earlier, Bahar & Group Lotus are NOT the BAD guys here, just that some ppl didn’t see or have the right resouces to make reasonable judgement…
Really? That is the story? I have my reservation. Half told, I think.
I agree! Was it actually Bahar’s decision to make? Actually the decision is entirely Proton’s and from what I understand it has NOTHING to do with F1 per se! From what I gather, Proton is actually interested to enter into a strategic partnership with Renault; and with it Nissan; to produce road going cars. One of the conditions set by Renault for this partnership is that Proton must buy a majority share in Renault F1. So this is simply a matter of Proton fulfilling that condition. Why drag Tony Fernandes or Team Lotus into this?
What’s the source of your story?
he is renault owner.no wonder he knows.
They have Mitsubishi engines without going into a race with them.
All I know is that Renault sold their shares to Genii Cap. Group Lotus bought those shares from Genii. Proton’s been using Renault since Savvy days. They have been doing races in Renault ever since BTCC. Then IRC on Super2000 specs. The relationship (and the tech know how) has been there for years. Its a natural progression. One which Danny says as ‘conservative’.
Extractly, where your sources?
Anyhow I have a feeling Proton will join the Renault-Nissan alliance which is logical and good for Proton.
It was splashed in the Business Pages of the major Malaysian Newspapers recently! As for Mitsubishi, their strategic partnership ended years ago! The Inspira was a one-off thing!
Proton only used Renault’s engines for their Savvy and Waja 1.8. There was no alliance between them. They have been using their own Campro engines since!
As for Proton buying Renault F1 shares from Genii Cap., and not directly from Renault … well there are several ways to skin a cat.
Of course Proton will be entering into a Strategic Alliance with the Renault-Nissan Group! Otherwise do you think they would have fulfilled Renault’s main condition of acquiring a majority share in Renault F1?
Skin the cat with a black & gold finishing…
Msian newspaper might be biased to make it sound like Proton is doing extremely well, thus adding credits to Najib’s approval rating.
Years ago? Hmmm… I’m not sure if I can agree with u as it is quite recent they wanted to make platforms and small fuel-efficient city car together and blabla, but they have been surprisingly quiet… We no longer hear about Mitsu wanting to rebadge Exora and Persona anymore, so I wonder if that will still happen…
But then again, don’t think TF is that clean… he had his fair share of dodgy moves that makes me a bit sceptical, but who knows, time will tell…
hope that proton will really entering into strategic alliances with the Renault-Nissan group. Then all the lotus cars will be power by Renault engine instead of Toyota…
Actually Reanualt sold its entire shares to genii. So no more Renault-proton JV. reanult only supply the engine. It’s Genii potential which may exploited by proton since it is the provider of brake system, KERS system, engine software management, and it has a good networking in Russia for proton to penetrate Central European amrket. No Reanualt-Nissan-proton alliance ma. haiya…No read still want to comment.
Harry, are you the board directors of proton/GL and involved in the meeting? If otherwise, please prove your source.
he just make up story bro…
I do not know TFpersonally nor did I say he is honest of otherwise; I do not own a Renault; I drive a Proton, am proud of it might I add; I have no connection whatsoever with Proton and I have no interest whatsoever in whomever is right or wrong; who is telling the truth and who is not; so do not get uptight with what I have written.
You can deduce from what I have written of my neutral stand in this matter. I have only given my personal opinion based on what I read and I have already declared that my source are the mainstream Malaysian Newspapers; if in doubt, go check yourself!
I don’t care whether TF’s team wins or DB’s team wins because in F1 I support M’Claren!
Only time will tell who is right and who is wrong and who is telling the truth. One thing though I do wish the strategic partnership between Renault-Nissan and Proton will materialise! I was very disappointed when negotiations towards a V W / Proton partnership fell through because I was looking forward to buying a V W Passat rebadged Proton Perdana!
Yes, exactly. He said the deal cost them 1/3 compare of what TF asked. 1/3 bought them 30% of the share. There is a talk saying that they want to take over the whole team from current ownership. Does that mean they have to pour another 2/3 (i think more than 2/3) to buy the rest of the share?
The real fact is this;
“We need to be involved in the management. We need to take decisions together. We need to fund it together as well, which is fine, but it cannot just be that we are seen as a sponsor, we pay the cheque and everything else is run by someone else. That is something that we will never do. And even if it is a public perception, it will never happen”
They you go. Dany want to have a say in the team. Never in the history of Team Lotus that Group Lotus have anything to say in the team. They runs as separated entities.
I don’t care if people start to bash me. Read your history.
frossonice, in my humble opinion, i think im you’re only half right on your posting.
“Never in the history of Team Lotus that Group Lotus have anything to say in the team. They runs as separated entities.”
dont forget, when team lotus was running, colin chapman ran both the team and group lotus at the same time. He made both as separate entities because it made running the race team easier from an operational standpoint as one of the main reasons.
i suspect he is implying that by buying into Tony’s team, Lotus does not have any management decision power, but merely as an investor/sponsor..etc.
of course Group Lotus historically never had any say in Team Lotus….but back then the 2 entities were run by the same people, Collin Chapman and after his death the Chapman family until they went down and bought out….how hard is it to comprehend that? he basically run both companies according to his philosophy….
and despite being 2 separate entities, Collin Chapman has long used Team Lotus involvement in F1 as 1 of the selling point for Lotus cars including launching special edition cars with JPS colors and quoting Team Lotus victories…..besides the current Team Lotus owned by David Hunt and now TF has lost all it’s IP for Team Lotus except for something so called “advertisement for services all related to F1 excluding pre recorded tapes” you can read about it in UK IP office rulings….
this is what Group Lotus now wanted to do as the current owner of the Lotus brand name….they want to have a say in car carrying Lotus name in F1 as well since Lotus works the same way as Ferrari and to McLaren somewhat, all started as F1 team and wants their cars to be associated with their achievement in F1…
You don’t have to wholly own a team, just becoming a major shareholder is sufficient to gain control. 25% seems enough for Renault, but who knows how many % it takes to become a major for TF’s team…
Plus, if this indeed paves way for greater co-operation between Proton and Renault-Nissan, it’ll be a huge benefit… already, Renault gets the prestige as the engine provider for champion Red Bull Racing.
I definitely would agree with the deal between Proton dan Renault for a greater cooperation. It sounds really delicious to think what will come out from it.
I still reserve my opinion on Lotus-Renault cooperation in F1.
“25% seems enough for Renault”.
if i’m not mistaken, under british law, if you have 25% of share, you’ll have a say and can prevent the company being sold. it’s not something enough for renault not enough for tony.
the fraction now
Lotus-Renault in Enstone , 75% Genii, 25% Group Lotus, 0% Renault
Renault Sport in viry chatillon , 100% Renault
Well said on Dany’s side… Finally the truth is out.
The truth..?
this only half the story. Tony denied it.
Quote from James Allen : But Tony Fernandes has denied this, “Complete rubbish,” he said. ” We never ever talked about numbers. Proton paid us US$ 1 million in sponsorship. I offered him to be joint venture partners, I offered share swap, we did everything. if he gave use $20 million (believed to be the level of the Lotus sponsorship of Renault) he could have got so much out of it. He would be in Norfolk, sponsoring a team that own Team Lotus. He would have Clive Chapman down the road and together we could all have worked together to bring Lotus to greater heights in three years.”
so you believe Tony’s story??? the side that said Group Lotus want to ‘hijack’ their idea on 2011 car livery??? good choice… LOL
i didn’t say tony was right, dany was wrong. neither did i say the other way around. i don’t want to judge as we don’t really know what actually happened between them.
Bravo, there are indeed mature Malaysians out there!
it will always be “two sides of story”. you dont know who is wrong and who is right. it’s either you with this side or that side. i dont want to attack TF but before this 1mf1 thingy, he actually want to buy West Ham United football club but the project goes down the drain. what he said then was he has passion for football since forever. now he also said he has passion about f1 since kid. what, he passion for everything? what i can see he his passion is toward business/profit. well, im respect him as successful businessman but this f1 we talking about.
quote “i offered share swap”…..swapping what share with what share here? Proton’s share with Airasia share? Proton’s share in Lotus with Team Lotus’s share?
TF is what race btw…
they are always like that la..
corner here corner there…still ppl can know la
agreed…its very ridicules..and this is just about name of ‘LOTUS’ ..they are fighting
Ego vs Ego = Everybody will loss…..
A little confused with Bahar’s statements. In this similar report in autosport
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88708 he claims that Group Lotus does not wish to claim to be Team Lotus or claim any of its race heritage yet Group Lotus has been parading the successes of Team Lotus and claiming as their own. Just look at the photo of the Type 72 above and various Group Lotus’ marketing materials.
The Team Lotus mentioned in that report is the one with Chapman at the head, with Graham Hill, Jim Clark and the old crew. Those were the days when cars were designed on a napkin in a pub. Even today, that has been the inventor’s creedo. Nobody can be that Team Lotus. Heritage cannot be bought for whatever amount of money.
…and especially without Senna as driver or equivalent talent.
…and especially without Senna or equivalent talent as the driver .
prior to 1990’s team lotus (F1) still belong to lotus cars, only after 1990’s does the team lotus being sold to other parties.. so its their right to parade any heritage prior to 1990’s as it is and still belong to them…
Sorry nope! From sometime mid 80s both Team Lotus and Group Lotus were owned by different owners. Group Lotus was sold to Romano Artioli I believe also to GM I think and eventually to Proton. While Group Lotus left the Chapman family, Team Lotus remained under the family for several more years before being sold to parties unrelated to Group Lotus owners. Peter Collins owned it before it went into administration.
Your first sentence itself is not correct. Group Lotus including Lotus Cars NEVER owned Team Lotus at any time. Chapman was the common owner. Group Lotus(Lotus Cars+Lotus Engineering) and Team Lotus were sister companies before they were sold off. One did not own the other.
Thus they have no right to parade the rights of another company without permission.
ferruccio, Danny is not saying that exactly. he only says lotus is not interested in the name and brand of “Team Lotus” as bought by Tony and group. if you read on, he goes on to say further, that you cannot change the fact Lotus group has the right over the name “lotus”. whether an f1 car, or lotus car. that of course includes the championship victories of the past under team lotus, because the F1 car is a lotus. That gives Lotus the right to use the 7 championship wins. i think he is being very clear with that.
Excerpt from the autosport link I gave earlier:
“We do not crave to be Team Lotus. We do not want to be Team Lotus. We do not want to change our name to Team Lotus. That is not us. It was a glorious past.”
“The Lotus Group was a separate company, but it is part of Mr Chapman’s empire if you want. We see it as part of the car manufacturer, whether it was used to support sales or to raise money – it was under one umbrella and they were two different companies. Maybe some formalities will confirm that.”
Bahar and his company has clearly been passing off as Team Lotus by mentioning things like 7 championship wins in their marketing and using products of Team Lotus at events.
He cannot stake a claim to those rights and its clearly he is trying to now distance himself from that.
Bahar’s further quote from Autosport:
“They achieved a lot and they should rest in peace. We as Group Lotus and Chapman himself used Lotus to promote the cars, and we will be doing the same. We are not doing anything wrong; it is what the brand has always done. We see it as a marketing tool.”
This is absolutely misleading. I don’t understand how a man of his intelligence could say such a thing in public.
Only Colin Chapman can allow Group Lotus to take credit of Team Lotus heritage to sell road cars. Why? because he owned BOTH parties. Bahar CANNOT do the same.
I now don’t trust Bahar because his statements have been contradictory, twisted and said out of convenience. Maybe he simply said the wrong things in public and should have consulted his team first but he is supposed to be a PR man.
Ferrucioa,
True, colin chapman used to own both team lotus, and lotus group/cars. but today, colin chapman is no longer around. and neither is his family in any form or part of the lotus car business. the team lotus “name” only was bought by tony and co, and proton owns lotus group/cars who btw, still designs, builds and sell lotus cars.
I totally agree with what bahar says. let team lotus rest. Group lotus has no intention of taking credit for “Team Lotus” as he says in his quote. But you cannot take away the fact that the cars raced were lotus cars. Lotus group/cars still have 100% right over any car branded “Lotus”. So yes, they can claim the 7 championship wins, because they were won by Lotus cars.
I don’t think you grasped my point. The mess is not ABOUT Colin Chapman. Its about the structures of the two companies and their associated legalities and rights which continues after Colin’s death. His death did not affect the rights of the companies. Think of how a Sdn Bhd works unlike an ‘Enterprise’.
For better under understanding of whats been going on google ‘saveteamlotus’
promoting Team Lotus F1 cars as a selling point for Lotus cars has been going on ever since Collin Chapman started selling Lotus cars…so what is wrong with that? do you think only when Proton bought the company they suddenly pasted Team Lotus F1 successful involvement in their car brochures?
Like I said, under Colin Chapman it was possible because both companies were owned by him but were separate entities. Lets call them company GL and TL. This was how the two companies were structured. Colin essentially wore two hats. One one hat was written ‘Owner of GL’ and the other ‘Owner of TL’
When GL saw that what TL did could benefit GL’s sales, GL went to their boss (Colin) and asked “Could you ask the owner of TL to let us use their rights?”
Colin, wearing the hat as GL boss naturally said “certainly. I’ll ask the owner of TL”. He looked in the mirror and said , “Old handsome chap, would mind letting us use your racing rights to help us sell more cars?”
Now what he does next is very crucial…. pay attention.. *drum roll*
Colin slowly takes off his ‘Boss of GL’ hat and dons his ‘Boss of TL’ hat. Then he mutters “certainly! go ahead”
Thats why it seems “promoting Team Lotus F1 cars as a selling point for Lotus cars has been going on ever since Collin Chapman started selling Lotus cars”
But since the two companies today are owned by two different owners (a fact that GL is trying to challenge but are likely to fail), it is not as simple as ‘switching hats’
The line differentiating the rights of both companies was there even when Colin was around. Just ‘blurred’ because he owned both. He did not need to call a board meeting to make such a decision. He simply switched hats.
you’re right about Collin Chapman wearing 2 hats while running the 2 companies…but like i said, the practice of using Team Lotus pass success in F1 has been going on for like forever but yet no action has been taken against GL by David Hunt for its use even after he bought TL out of liquidation….so the main question is, does he has the rights to block GL use of TL pass success?
i understand that he has the rights to use TL name in F1 competition, which is now is in court from GL revocation request as the trade mark has been in a state of non use for more than 5 years, but from what I understand in UK IP office rulings, he has lots rights to the TL name in everything outside F1 competition…but 1 side note is that David Hunt also lost the rights to TL name and trade mark in Pre Recorded tapes…could this mean that all promotional videos (and pictures maybe) of old TL successes no longer belong to David Hunt thus GL can freely use them? i do personally think so
He was trying to court Proton/GL throughout 90s and suing them would have been counterproductive though he did make issues known. Do read that ‘saveteamlotus’ site. On the rest of what you’re saying.. thats why all parties involved are eager for the court judgement
Can’t wait to see a black car on the grid next season!!!! You Go Lotus-Renault Team!!!
it’s Lotus Renault GP… the other one is Team Lotus-Renault… if the court or FIA give the green light…
Tony = Greedy
Seriously why he need lotus name ? just to bring in more value to his team, attract more sponsor…for new sponsor of all 3 new team, lotus make more sense for the heritage
Shame on Tony , you are not and will never be a true lotus…what true lotus you have ? you dont build car, you dont have racing heritage…u only buy name..
then to attract govt and local company, you put in ambition of moving to sepang, bring in local boy as test driver…but have you ever make any attempt to really develop that boy ? other than asking him to drive once in a while…obviously he cant perform…then the sepang…come on, you just want govt to invest on you the way you force them to build LCCT…all using kepentingan rakyat as alasan…
Proton and Lotus – straight to the point, it is all business. They are the real lotus, and they want to make money through marketing, and partnership…It is an honest intentention. And like i said before the move is the best thing for lotus…Danny want to build 5 car but he dont have 5 great engine…by 2012 with the new engine regulation, he can simulate the F1 car on his car by getting renault engine…then proton also can work with renault, can also work with genii to expand the market, the possibilities is endless here for proton…
Greedy Tony…that is what he is…and come on…mike gascoyne…the guy has been everywhere with his antique…there is no loyalty on him, for him “I am mike and i kick ass…the rest is just bunch of idiot”….not many people can tolerate working with him…well he is cool and that…but how many employee he had la…he is not andrian newey…he is not ross brawn…he is mike gascoyne…half work, almost there and fired…always…bad luck ? more of bad attitude i guess…so Tony and Mikey..make good couple…and that riad boy…so now you are in F1 circus…walk tall and proud…hey dont you work for proton before…dont proton pay you so you could build your name in motorsport management….if ever proton never help you before would you be on tony’s radar….not in million year dear boy…so once in a while…lets be a true malay….be gratefull…ada masa kena balas budi….jgn la sombong sangat
Dont get me wrong, i like the team…i support them …but not if they have that lotus name with them…3 malaysian team is something i would cheer on…but not two lotus team….
Petronas vs Lotus Renault vs Team Lotus …
3 Malaysian company better… total 6 car to challenge in F1 next season!!!
but which one will play our national anthem when they win? none?
yup, none… for constructor’s anthem there will be Germany, France & British… unless there’s a Malaysian driver winning a race with any of those 3 teams..
i only will be proud when malaysia driver win and they play our national anthem… not a foreign driver win and they play our national anthem….
i’ve said it once and i’ll said it again.. my main money’s on petronas… probably a little backup in LR GP… and maybe a penny or two in TL (did u see the odds of heiki getting pole? 1:1001!!!)
Lotus Renault actually Proton Renault…
Still remember SAVVY using Renault engine what…. this is a good collaboration..
This year i think at least 1 car from this 3 Malaysian companies can get a podium!!
well said bro!
actually i dont really like TF..
it will destroy what he already had.. slowly
Yes, Dany and Co. are the real Lotus. But they are not the real Team Lotus. Team Lotus and Group Lotus has been separated by Colin Chapman since day 1. Group Lotus never race in F1, Team Lotus did.
The only claims that TF have on this is that he bought the rights of Team Lotus from David Hunt and he has every right to use it. That does not make him the true Team Lotus either. Original Team Lotus was long dead and what Tony does was using the name on a new team. It is like what Bernie did on Brabham.
…But we can rewrite the history as it should be. Lotus (the brand car name) excel in motorsport and bring back Lotus name in sports car arena. Not break off on saperate ways as in the past.
yada yada…..the real team is DEAD!!!
not gonna happen yo….
senna is DEAD too…he is not gonna make history anymore..but he is history to all in motorsport now…
so live with it !!
haiyoo.. what are you rambling on and on ’round-about’? You don’t know what you’re talking about. Just from reading the long post an the way you wote I gerenti you know nothing and don’t work in the automotive industry, you don’t work in the motorsport industry, and certainly don’t work in any of the industries Tony is involved in, let alone know him directly or indirectly. Just love to bash public figure just because he has a proven track record and you’re miserable at the work place.
Yes he is so greedy that he and his partners equally spent a whopping £75m into the team this season. That’s a lot of ‘profit’ isn’t it. This is info is available online. Everybody know that money came from their own pockets.
The money come from my pocket also coz i fly with air asia… after this maybe they charge when we use their toilet in the plane…. hahahhaha
…and also for oxygen mask if cabin pressure drop eh? what about life-jacket then?
big investment = high risk, but of coz offer big returns…. don’t say that Tony & Co doing it just for passion, he’s a businessman for goodness sake, he’ll get back (& more) what he ‘throw’…
bro, TF is being sponsored by somebody. Do u think he has all the money to buy Air Asia in the first place? Its AK whos behind the scene. TF is just a puppet.
Another clueless soul speculating via connecting imaginary dots. Certainly not from within the industry
i like it
Why even bother to explain when all the decisions have already bee done for?
There will always be difficulty in partnerships, this one didn’t work out, that’s all.
Paying 1/3 but asking for 2/3 control….that is also not fair.
Might as well break-up before season starts. Malu if fight after start new season.
This is good for people with different targets n agenda.
“Paying 1/3 but asking for 2/3 control….that is also not fair.”
but if Dany can get it, then he’s smart. who cares about unfair.
i thk Genii capital won’t miskin than proton…they wont simply sold to other unless they no longer interested in F1 business then may be will sold to Group Lotus if F1 cannot give them high profit enough…in the end F1 mean Business….high risk, high return….that why Mclaren, ferrari, Mercedes even red bull inject so much in their super high budget to get champion title to win the 1st prize profit… untung gila still can cover all your high cost car development even can give profit sharing to all their employees paid out as bonus like Red Bull did…red bull owner dah sangat kaya sekarang lagi kaya do F1 business…
if nobody explain,
then dumb bashers will barking here and there..
hmmmm…..now a different picture emerges on who was trying to con the rakyat’s money…….??
Group Lotus are now in a front running team for 1/3 the cost…..
paultan readers are so gullible believe everything they read. can draw full conclusion just reading from one side
realist? why is this one-sided? so far, its only tony and co thats been talking and talking and talking.. now we get to hear Lotus and danny’s side of the story. i think thats pretty fair.
Buddy it ain’t about who says what how many times. It’s about what YOU believe and how YOU arrived at your position. Most people are too lazy to dig and just swallow what is fed by the PR machine
Like i said in previous Paultan’s related post, its Tony Fernandes the man with monetary intention. He already calculated his move but unfortunately he found a really good match, Dany Bahar. Why would he established an F1 team with Lotus name other than to sell it back to Group Lotus at a premium price. He is trying to make Proton pay (in return will cost us as tax payer). But fortunately his scheme backfired. We should not forget his antics when he wanted to build his own airport and why AirAsia is paying a really low landing fees when it shared the same runaway as other airlines? People establish an F1 team with passion for motor racing not with the intention to make more money out of it. Resurrecting Team Lotus serve no benefit to his business. One would question if he really into motor racing legacy then there are many other dead teams that will not create conflicts like Tyrrell, Surtees, Shadow, March and etc…
He should have done what Branson did with Virgin and Dietrich Mateschitz with Red Bull….
And the best story of all, he let go Fairuz Fauzy after much of fairy tales of having supporting malaysian driver bla bla bla…
well said.. from the start of 1M F1 team to a British-fake-wannabe “legacy” team.
it’s all just for money, tricked Proton/Lotus into the game & buy the “heritage” for single millions & maybe then try to sell it off soon at the nice bucks.
shame on such person, now the truth is out. 1/3 from the cost into TLF1Team is better than being conned by others.
i can’t agree more… :)
Yah i agree, and 1Malaysia Racing team is just used to con our govt and rakyat money to get approval and support from govt.
say wanna benefit malaysian, say wanna built malaysia into a regional motorsports hub, SAY ONLY TONY!! Talk is loud…
Where’s the wind tunnel in sepang?? Where’s all the facility you promise you will build?
I guess thats good enough reason for us to rally behind the other team who will be spending from the govt coffers then eh?
This is getting more interesting. Its either:
TF: His real side is starting to show off. TF wanted to use this opportunity to actually sell off team Lotus to the highest bidder since he will make the most money of it. Well cant blame him since he is actually still a businessman at heart rather than a boy who grow up watching team lotus on F1 back to its glory days. In which TF claimed he is a Lotus fan since a child although we don’t know that if its true.
I recalled TF initially has no intention to stay in F1 and will pass on the team manager role when he found the correct person. Looks like his very into this F1 business and there no turning back. Either involve more and in the same time promote his Air asia and tune business or sell it at the highest bidder. Looks like the later one has failed.
TF’s advantage is he has the heart of most Lotus fans aboard and he has the support of Bernie and FIA. The UK court is in favour of him and he has invested up to 100 million pounds or more into Lotus racing. TF cant turn back now.
DB: I’m have to say initially I abit worried about him when his ambitious plans is seriously causing Proton and our gov to cough almost billions of ringgit to their plans. Not only by developing 6 ambitious new models to challenge Porsche and become the next ferrari and forgo their roots as affordable sportscar maker (which seriously cant make them money), but also poaching talents from Ferrari, Porsche, Audi and so on to join their new management team.
Actually their plans is started to bear fruit. Their new Evora S has improved performance and QC control thanks to some talents poached from Porsche and the writer at Autocar UK prefers the Evora S over Porsche. The Lotus T125 Exos F1 lookalike track only car did well and sold 17 out of 25 in 3 months as written in Top Gear magazine.
Lotus plans to involve into GT racing as a supplier is a smart move so they can make money by selling their GT ready cars to racing teams since the era of works team is pretty much ended in motorsports. Hopefully by 2011 we can see Evora GT3 and GT4 into European GT racers. His plans into Indy car racing and Le Mans remains to be seen in 2011.
Still, his plans is very risky and if everything fails, he will get bailout money from, well no price for guessing from who. If then every 30 million Malaysians will hunt him down!!
Btw, I do found Dany Bahar is extremely good looking chap!
1-“there is one way that Lotus does business – and this is getting involved and not just putting the logo on the car.”
2-You cannot imagine that Dany Bahar can influence prime ministers, the board of Lotus, the board of Proton, the shareholders. There are so many people involved and it would not make sense!”
u absolutely right mr.bahar…i agree 110% with it….
Like Prost and Senna back in the day, rivalry makes the racing all the more interesting, for all we know The two Lotuses are simply making drama to engrave that Lotus name onto your cranium so you’d pay more attention to the Upcoming 5 new Lotus road cars…
everybody’s in for the profit F1 can offer and give them
there’s no one damn soul enter F1 scene for the sake of charity in this modern era
the question is; who’s really gonna make profit at the end of the day; especially Group lotus because we all know who’s gonna bail them out if their F1 endeavor going downward spiral.
and now we’ve hear both side of the story. Let’s wait for 2011 season
this is not healthy…like two teenagers stabbing each other at the back…thy should jus both stop this nonsence and get on with their job…i can see foreign press having a lough at us…
in business, any advertisement is a good advertisement. it’s depend on you whether you grab the opportunity or not. when 3 f1 teams from our country compete in next year it suggest that malaysian is mad about automotive and all eyes will be on us, malaysian (well maybe some).
what i can see, the most beneficial from this situation will be proton even though it’s lotus name will be display on the car because nowadays if someone said about lotus, it will automatically link to proton somehow. next year will be de factor year for proton either they capable to grab the opportunity or just watching the chance slowly pass by them. i dont see 1mf1 team can hold up any longer than 2 years with TF see it more as business rather than passion.
when you talk about next year, it is a year proton go global. well, at least in their schedule. time will tell then.
Good Job Danny,
Next. spend your time wisely,
F1, that 5 news line up luxury sports car and don’t forget your automotive consultancy business as well.
If you flop in any 1 of these, lotus will be in really deep shit.
Keep it up!!
Proton/Lotus did the right move in buying into Renault F1 team, with that they can tap into their expertise and technology like engine etc etc. That will add value for Lotus as they are a sportscar manufacturer, likewise it will Proton will benefit from the tecnology advancement as what top car manufactures put into their road cars today. Look at Petronas today with their Synthium brand.
As for TF and his so called F1 vision, he is just a businessman who wants to do a quick flip and make lots of money. Pity SM Nasamudin for getting involved with TF , he must have lost lots of money financing his team. SM should have put the money into our local motorsport scene. Mike Gascoyne is pick from the dumps as he was jobless, Toyota F1 team with a huge budget can’t even do well with MG, he thinks he is the best in the business and look at the 2010 Lotus racing car, a copycat of the defunct toyota 2009 car. No brainer.
To sum it all up, TF and Kamaruddin will look for a buyer soon. I think SM Nasa is feeling the pinch and wriggle his way out of this mess. Please do SM before you get burnt.
SM get conned by TF and geng for sure..
no worry… almost everyone get conned by TF & co… LOL
i like this kontroversi… make them popular ..hehe… everyone talk about them
Lookin at the way comments are posted here, I feel like many people are simply bashing TF with some personal grudge (for watever reason). I’m not a fan of either TF or DB here, but just tryin to make sense of all the personalized attacks on the two figures. Both are businessmen and are tryin their best to improve their business, and as long it doesnt involve the peoples (malaysian) money (hopefully…), I’m happy. Competition is heating up between them, which is good. F1 just got more interesting for Malaysians (good for sepang). and let the best man (or team) win. THEN ALL THE BASHERS can talk. Till then lets keep the personalized attacks to a side and lets focus on the true spirit of competition.
You guys have a right to choose a favorite team here, not no right to condemn the other unless u have some personal interest at stake (like u own Lotus cars and u are concerned about its image). I’m not happy with proton due to the fact that we are payin HIGH price for cars in Msia coz of them. To all proton supporters, pls dun blindly support it coz YOU also stand to gain if the car prices can come down when the market opens up for competition!
And since proton is doing kinda well and willing to invest peoples money into F1, i think government should reduce the taxes on foreign cars. Let competition to bring out the best in proton and finally give malaysians some fair deal. Most malaysians are just tired of paying huge sums of their income for artificially high priced vehicles in Malaysia. The money definitely can be used for other better purposes. Well I think this matters the most to all of us, including DB (proton and lotus car owners) of TF (lotus F1 team) fans. Peace!
paultan commenters have basically 0 knowledge of F1 and its history. Thats why.
Especially those Lotus-Renault and Bahar supporters.
THEY PROTON FANBOYS JUST SIMPLY BASH COZ PROTON NOW WITH RENAULT AND NOT SUPPORTING tf F1. I AGREE, THEY KNOW NUTS ABOUT F1.
what a BIG FAT LIAR… if 0 knowledge in F1, how come they know ‘Lotus’ name was once in F1? that fact alone give more than 0 knowledge… typical TF’s lover… LOL
Razor, what ia yr knowledge about this then, can u share with us?
This is a discussion about GL vs TL/TF, not about the merits or otherwise of protectionism for our domestic car industry.
I am a Malaysian and I disagree with your views on the price of Malaysian cars….but lets save that discussion for another time in the appropriate forum…
Our govt is too reliant of the income from the high taxes of cars. Even if proton cease to exist, they will NOT lower the taxes (reduce income).
So instead of wishful thinking and hoping price will come down, be like singaporeans, work smarter earn more and make our economy stronger so we can buy cars cheaper.
mmm… just a side note…
if the car market in malaysia “open up”… the price WONT come down…
its a big income for the goverment.. malaysian will be taxed one way or the other…
if the car price come down.. then there goes our free healthcare and free education
Finally! someone in touch of reality. Thank you ‘gun’
Bashing is immature. Be it on TF or DB. Even more stupid when it’s not based on real world facts and just hearsay
Similar problem face by Petronas… the sponsorship deal with Mercedese GP cheaper than Lotus Racing… source from Petronas personel that I knew.
i do personally think that would be the case…mercedes GP PETRONAS is owned by Mercedes and some cash rich middle eastern investors. so the money PETRONAS needs to cough in won’t be nearly as big but would generate huge exposure for the brand since it’s prominent on the car and name…
That y TF were frustated when petronas sponsored mercedes team… he lost opportunity to make money….. hahahahhaa
whatever..i just hope the proton-renault partnership will enable proton to produce a new satria with the quality of the megane 250 cup. it should be cheap too. wishfull thinking??yeah,i know.but one can always hope,right?? ;)
Can’t wait for 2011 season to start so we can see who eats humble pie.
Lotus Renault GP will be in front while Team Lotus at the back end… no, i don’t know the future.. it’s common sense + statistic + looking at financial & technical backing on 2011 cars + recent track records..
If you say LRGP will likely be ahead of TL. I would agree. TL at the ‘back end’ is less certain and you would have to define ‘back end’. TL is expected to dice around with Sauber, STR, Williams and all 3 are struggling financially.
There are even doubts over LRGP’s future financial stability. They have lost support of Renault-Nissan and their resources are expected to shrink. The money GL is supposed to pump in though big, isn’t immense by F1 standards. It is also said that the team has debts to pay off as well. Thus looking unlikely that they would be able to continue with the development momentum seen this season.
I don’t think LRGP will drop behind their competitors but I doubt they will get ahead either
If TL can dice with Williams & Sauber consistently (not on the basis of a fluke result) then i will jump off the Twin Towers immediately.
Gascoyne talks a good race but there is nothing he has done in the past, or shown this year that indicates that his car will perform any better than this year.
Have you been to Williams F1 factory? Have u seen the Sauber facilities at Hinwil? U must be joking to think LR/TL can ever be close to that.
Gascoyne had a limitless budget and 1st class facilities at Toyota and achieved squat. With what he has now…….hmmmm i just dont see any great surpises around the corner. I mean they dont even have KERS for the first few races next year……
Not being rude, just real…..
Jordan finished 3rd in the championship in ’99 I think. No one disputes the credit given to Gascoyne for Jordan’s turnaround.
Money is everything in F1. You can have great facilities but you still need money and lots of it, to run it.
Hope you wear a chute when you jump off the Twin Towers ;)
I somewhat agree with paultantoo. Gascoyne started off at McLaren and even spent some time in Sauber. There’s no doubt that he contributed to Jordan’s 3rd place success but he couldn’t repeat it the next season. He also had success at Renault. No disrespect but I think that’s where it seemed to have ended for him.
Unlike Newey, he hasn’t been able to replicate his past success. I don’t think development budget’s an issue at Toyota. Maybe it was the staff.
whatever..everybody got their own interest..i’m just hoping that the proton-renault venture will produce something like a new satria with the same quality & performance as the megane 250 cup. i’m not a purist. so add a dual clutch gear box to that car too while you’re at it….wishful thinking?yeah. but dat’s my right ;p
Finally someone exposed Tony’s greed.
Again, he’s AirAsia CEO so he should stick to Airlines and his marketing gimmicks. F1 is a high-tech, high dedication sport. No room for whiners, marketers and greed.
Tony, get out.
lol
no room for whiners, marketeers and greed? and GREED?
well i guess Dany bahar is super pious now to all proton worshippers
:D
well i think dany bahar is much more handsome than tony.
and his name sounds good too.. dany bahar.. it is quite familiar.. dont u think so?
well… it’s up to your queer eye meh
LOL
:D
TELL THAT TO RICHARD BRANSON THEN!
and Vijay Mallya too
lol
:D
“Finally someone exposed Tony’s greed.”
Yes and I’m sure what he says is holy because he is opposing Tony. Like I said. how gullible we are.
The same applies if Tony says something bad about Bahar.
There is a reason why we have TWO ears, and divided by that lump of grey matter..
Mr realist,
u sound so high and mighty, belittling almost everyone here for being gullible whatsoever…
Did you seriously expect people to just “Oh well, let’s get along, then congratulate each other gentlemanly when the championship ends.”? Harhar. This is just like Proton vs Perodua/Toyota, fanboy-ism is expected.
So what’s your take? Who’s the devil here? If you have no idea or anything to offer but insults, I suggest you cut down that tone as if you are know-it-all while others have been taken for a ride… and start sharing some helpful tangible information that you have. Paultan.org does NOT need a troll.
I don’t sound high and mighty. I AM high and mighty :)
silly season is coming next year…
we’ll see…we’ll see
let’s just be clear here…if want to advertise your brand, would you advertise it with team which have proven to be successful or with an unproven new team? if you can pay less or even the same amount of money but get better exposure would you do it? if you can enter into a partnership in which your partner would open up access to an almost untapped market for your product would you do it?
in today’s modern and competitive world, passion and legacy plays a minute part of you business…else Ferrari, Porsche, Cray Supercomputers and many more companies would have remain independent and profitable….
hey guys, come on. We only heard one side of the story and that’s from DB.
anyone hear what our Uncle Tony have to say or will he not?.. whatever the case,
we’ll see what happens next season, as long alex yoong don’t drive for LT in any case!
Lotus is owned by Proton dan Danny is the CEO of Group Lotus. Just curious which CEO are getting higher salary between him and Syed Zainal since Danny was coming from Ferrari…this is nothing to do with this article btw…:)
As mentioned earlier this Turk is a con-man.
Don’t believe what this Bahar view only cos
we have yet to hear TF’s side of the story.
He can twist and turn his words and yet we think
he is the good guy and TF the bad guy.
Let’s see what TF has to say on this matter.
let’s see why the current teams are in F1:
1. Red Bull – to promote the RB brand as the ultimate sports drink brand (quite successfull in that i would say)
2. Ferrari – for Fiat group to promote the Ferrari brand
3. Mclaren – They used to be in it solely for racing, but branched out with Automobiles as well with the McLaren F1 and the new MP4-12C. not to mention various high performance cars they help develop for Mercedes…they’re even using their own engine in the MP4-12C and might be developing their own engine for F1 in the future when they parted ways with Merc in 2015
4. Mercedes – well isn’t it obvious that they’re promoting the Mercedes brand
5. Renault – same thing here, associating the Renault brand with ultimate performance
6. Williams – same as McLaren, used to be in only for racing but now branching out into automotive components as well.. they supplied the KERS unit to Porche in the car recently
7. Force India – used by Vijay to promote his Kingfisher airlines brand and bring up Indian interest in F1
8. Sauber – the private team with a lot of interest in racing. entered various classes of racing and was considered by Mercedes to be their platform in F1. cooperated with PETRONAS to develop the EO1 engine and building the FP1 superbike. bought over by BMW, now sold again and Peter Sauber is interested to sell his team
9. Torro Rosso – junior team of Red Bull…same explanation as red bull
10. Lotus – to promote???????
11. HRT F1 – was the campos team until bought over and changed to HRT to reflect their operation base in Spain
12. Virgin – obviously to promote the Virgin brand. RB goes into almost all type of businesses we can think of with the virgin brand. he even want to send people into suborbit with Virgin Galactic
Toyota and Honda was in the sport to promote their automotive brands but while Honda met some success, Toyota just couldn’t go it alone and both bowed out though Honda has been coming in and out of F1 at various time in history and has powered championship winning cars before.
i still remember honda cars advertisement quoting their success in F1 through the years. even on their cars they put a small sticker about their F1 winning technology….though that was back in 1990’s….i mean Honda do aggressively promote their cars with their involvement in F1 back then though most of the time they’re just engine suppliers….
so back to the question, what is the Lotus Racing team in F1 promoting again? and why is there so many negative comments about Lotus cars wanting to be in F1 to promote their cars….if Lotus Racing became so successful and they branched out into automotive industry like McLaren and Williams, wouldn’t that be a direct competition with group Lotus? they definitely can’t do so since they don’t have trade mark of Lotus outside F1 and thus would have to market their product as something else which defeats the purpose….
LOL
F1 is not just about promoting stuff
F1 is for promoting stuff, the days of privateers racing for passion has long pass….
True man… no more personal, it’s just business. BUSINESS. You know, like how those rich people play golf to create networks and make deals? Well, just replace golf with F1 cuz that’s what F1 is about today.
From a logical point of view, Lotus-Renault has a better long-term prospect beyond F1 than Team Lotus… unless Naza is really, REALLLLLY serious. But… seriously? Naza-designed engine? Brakes? Suspensions? hohohohohoho
DON’T WORRY, THEY CAN RENAME “TEAM KIA” LATER
If people questioning who owns the real Lotus, i would chose group lotus instead of TF’s so called Team Lotus.
It is true that Colin Chapman separated Team Lotus and Group Lotus to protect the car manufacturer and the racing team from dragging down each other if one of them going bust.
Group Lotus prevailed and still standing to these days. Team Lotus fold in 1994 and the right to its name is brought by a bloke named Whatever Hunt.
If Tony insist that his team is the genuine Team Lotus, he shouldn’t forget, despite the two entities being separate, they share the common man in Colin Chapman.
So it’s only natural to link the Team Lotus to Group Lotus.
But Dany Bahar, being a gentleman or playing reverse psychology, said it’s okay to have 4 Lotuses on the grid next year, but people will judge the real Lotus car, which gonna carry the proud Lotus emblem, not just the name.
So how Tony gonna claim the famous Team Lotus if his cars doest feature the famous Lotus logo?
Tony’s cars will have the famous Team Lotus logos on it obviously
A car manufacturer sponsor other car manufacturer in F1? And called themselves Lotus?
That’s not the spirit of Colin Chapman’s Lotus. He built the team from ground. Something other team share with.
so whats the difference from building a team from scratch but using other manufacturer’s engine and whatnots, because as far as i know, the original team lotus never had their own engine and also known to have history with renault.
in the age of consolidation, i would say building from scratch is not a smart move anymore, so are we disputing the fact that mercedes is not the original mercedes because they bought over brawn which is formerly honda?
In the old days, a mechanic or farmer’s boy can race in F1 too. Can they do that now? Times have changed.
Lets put more salt into this five-star issue (only fictional, so dont sue me): for all you know, the gov called proton and tony and laid out this plan: “ok tony, u’ve adored f1 since your childhood, so here’s your chance: find your own dough to start this LR. Then somewhere near the end of the season, you announce the TL name to create this ownership issue, then GL stand up and form a stronger new team, then you two fight and have fun…. and here’s the solution to the name and branding rights. After one year, proton, you’ll get your milage before even starting f1, and tony, you’ll get to maintain your new toy. And to all malaysian and f1 fans, last few seasons were pretty dull, so next year, sit tight, watch and have fun.
…again, this is just fictional ;)
AND I’M HAPPY to let them use my money for this purpose!! …hah!