Nine speeds enough for transmissions, says ZF boss

Nine speeds enough for transmissions, says ZF boss

The nine-speed transmission might be where the race to add gears ends, ZF Friedrichshafen CEO Stefan Sommer said, according to a report by Automotive News Europe.

He deemed nine speeds the “natural limit” because surpassing that number would add weight and complexity that cannot be offset by gains in fuel efficiency.

“There is no hard line, but you have to consider the law of diminishing returns. The question is whether adding even more gears makes sense,” he told the Automobilwoche Congress in Berlin. Automobilwoche is Automotive News Europe’s German sister publication.

ZF is expecting big sales gains for next year because Chrysler Group is adopting the German company’s eight- and nine-speed transmissions (pictured above) for mass-market models.

There have been reports of General Motors’ and Ford’s collaboration on nine- and 10-speed transmissions, as well as of Hyundai developing a 10-speed gearbox.

In an earlier Automotive News report, ZF North America president Julio Caspari hinted that a “Can-you-top-this?” cog race may be driven by marketing considerations rather than fuel economy, explaining that there is only an 11% gap between the most efficient transmissions today and a theoretically perfect gearbox.

Next year, ZF will start production of its 9HP nine-speeder at a Greenville, South Carolina plant, while Chrysler will manufacture that and the existing ZF eight-speeder under license at its Kokomo, Indiana plant.

ZF says the nine-speed transmission, which is designed for transverse-mounted engines, is up to 16% more efficient than a conventional six-speed automatic.

Looking to sell your car? Sell it with Carro.

10% discount when you renew your car insurance

Compare prices between different insurer providers and use the promo code 'PAULTAN10' when you make your payment to save the most on your car insurance renewal compared to other competing services.

Car Insurance

Jonathan James Tan

While most dream of the future, Jonathan Tan dreams of the past, although he's never been there. Fantasises much too often about cruising down Treacher Road (Jalan Sultan Ismail) in a Triumph Stag that actually works, and hopes this stint here will snap him back to present reality.

 

Comments

  • Hello on Nov 07, 2012 at 10:56 am

    Cool stuff, how does it compare with cvt?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 6
    • The controls for a CVT are the same as an automatic: Two pedals (no clutch) and a P-R-N-D-L-style shift pattern. But while an automatic transmission has a set number of gear ratios (a.k.a. speeds), usually 4, 5 ,6,8, 9, the CVT can constantly change the relationship of engine speed to car speed. When driving a car with a CVT, you never hear or feel the transmission shift — it simply raises and lowers the engine speed as needed, calling up higher engine speeds (or RPMs) for better acceleration and lower RPMs for better fuel economy while cruising.
      What i think is that: whether it’s a 9 speed or even speed fixed gears, they still can’t match the fuel efficiency of the CVT because there’s a gap (power loss) while changing gears. But fixed gears transmission does provide better or more spirited drive than CVT..

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 33 Thumb down 6
      • NONICKNAME on Nov 07, 2012 at 5:14 pm

        Im still prefer oldskool 6 speeds torque converter gb. New torgue converter gb nowdays offer better acceleration than CVT. Have u drive any CVT’s before? CVT like a gay, pickup lembab. Just my 2 cents

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 19
        • nazri on Nov 08, 2012 at 3:27 pm

          not all people like to drive crazy like you, there are certain drivers more prefer fuel efficient rather than performance

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
      • So, is gearbox for cars in the future going have more and more speed based on the trend we see? my guess is: we will b going back to single speed gearbox in the future…when electric cars take over…

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
    • alldisc on Nov 07, 2012 at 1:48 pm

      CVT has no actual gears. all the ratios are made able virtually to make drivers feel as if there are actual gears.

      this is one simple reason why there are 6 speed CVT, or 7 speed CVT when they dont even have a pair of gear ratios.

      totally different thing.

      CVT was developed many decades back, but were not popular. in the 1980s it was brought back in cars like Fdrd Fiesta (europe) and Subaru Justy but without the electronics mimicking multiple gears like the on introduced by Honda in the Jazz and City some 10 years ago.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • koochai on Nov 07, 2012 at 11:24 am

    heck…who need 9?!

    many people are happy with ancient toyota 4-speeder…

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 100 Thumb down 9
    • kereta lembu on Nov 07, 2012 at 12:23 pm

      You must be a hardcore Japanese car fan aren’t you? While I do agree with you 9 gears is a lot, but 4 gears is enough to make you happy? No wonder Jap car manufacturers can get away with ancient tecnology and yet can sell their cars like hot cakes. I get it now, it doesn’t matter how poorly equipped the japanese cars are, as long as it has good resale value, that’s enough for certain people.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 78
      • Jilbaber on Nov 07, 2012 at 12:29 pm

        dude, I think the guy is just being sarcasm.. y so srs

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 48 Thumb down 2
      • tokmoh on Nov 07, 2012 at 12:41 pm

        Either you just got internet or you truly can’t smell the sarcasm…

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 55 Thumb down 1
      • VoidDance on Nov 07, 2012 at 1:13 pm

        He’s being sarcastic towards the people who keep buying all those 4-speed Japanese car for the sake of the brands. Haiya.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
      • someone did not get the SARCASM. having a bad day i see..

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
        • ….or haven’t get laid for a long time, that explain everything

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
      • Kalun on Nov 07, 2012 at 6:45 pm

        He is just sarcastic bro.

        Ok. As you can see, Toyota/Lexus is is years behind their competitor in Japan itself.
        For example: Lexus LFA sport car still using the ancient 6 speed gear box where as their counterpart like Nissan and Honda are using Twin/Multi plate gear box (Nissan GTR and the new Honda NSX).

        Only in Japan you can differentiate the differences. But in Malaysia, Tak Payah compare la. All still using the ancient tech. AD want more income mah!

        Rememeber: Compare it with Japanese Direct Market model.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4
        • alldisc on Nov 08, 2012 at 9:11 am

          golf GTI is 6 speeder bro.

          F1 drivers prefer 6 speeds too, except that some using 7th gear to achieve higher top speed.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
    • Xefron on Nov 07, 2012 at 1:07 pm

      this is trolling.LOL

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
    • frenzy on Nov 07, 2012 at 1:12 pm

      At japan, their camry AT LEAST get a cvt gearbox and muck nice looking front bumper..
      When come to Malaysia….
      I think it’s more like Malaysian 4 speed.
      Don’t blame the Japanese, blame UMW and TCE

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
    • woody on Nov 07, 2012 at 3:26 pm

      couldn’t agree more, a good four speed tranny is good enough for point a to point b working routine, reliability is the top priority here, as not everyone can afford a spare car while waiting weeks/months for their 9 speeder to be fixed/replaced in the workshop. bottom line is, cars here r not cheap, and majority ppl r not rich enough.lol thumb up ladies!!

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 33
    • Turboman on Nov 07, 2012 at 5:04 pm

      Koochai.

      My hats off to u.

      U r the MAN!!!! That is a well executed sniper shot to those ….

      Well, u know exactly who im talking abt.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3
    • tongi on Nov 07, 2012 at 8:00 pm

      U r right ,im using 4speed Toyota…VIOS which sell at 80K
      Cant Imagine 9 Speed Cost Us What Price >.<

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 7
      • typical on Nov 07, 2012 at 10:21 pm

        So the price is determined by the number of gears now?

        And to mention what you drive only baffles me more. Always something with “That” brand’s owners and fanboys. Can’t imagine how you people’s brains work..

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2
    • Sam Loo on Nov 09, 2012 at 10:37 pm

      Well, the 4 speeder on the Camty will not kwai tai like the tranny on kimchis and euros

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1
  • Anti-Fuel-Price on Nov 07, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    Haha just imagine if is “manual” the driver will be cursing ZF engineer :)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
    • 4G63T DSM on Nov 07, 2012 at 12:30 pm

      why? Not a problem with a manual, Trucks have a lot more gears.

      Seriously, for a passenger car, if they really needed that many gears, they could have used a simpler CVT.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 10
    • Head hunter on Nov 08, 2012 at 7:43 am

      I got my car stuck in 7th gear, tried to downshift to 6th, but it came back 4th, then i immediately shift up but it got jammed in reverse! Hahaha..

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • the greed toyolta on Nov 07, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    camry and dugong 4-speed SUPER ECT the best in the world!! advanced enough to be used up to year 2050!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 48 Thumb down 5
    • again on Nov 07, 2012 at 1:23 pm

      enough with the sarcasm. some people just don’t get it. just be straight to the point.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2
  • Jilbaber on Nov 07, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    Heck, I think 8 speeds is already too much for a car !

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 3
  • Black Dog on Nov 07, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    “The nine-speed transmission might be where the race to add gears ends”

    He’s afraid of the Hyundai 10 speed gears? He’s not the one to decide where it ends. Different companies have different technologies. Probably some for bragging rights but we can’t deny that more gears equals better fuel economy and smoother power delivery.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 14
    • So you know better than him when he says “surpassing that number would add weight and complexity that cannot be offset by gains in fuel efficiency”?

      And I don’t think he’s afraid of competition or that the number should not go any higher. He simply says 9-speed is enough for ZF. Read again. The article isn’t that long.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
      • let just see if he can tahan at gear 9 for how long :) maybe not even long than need to go down to 8..7…6…than send his car to hospital :D

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4
    • ZF is scared of hyundai? Are you kidding me? You must be very ignorant or plain stupid. Whoever uses hyundai transmission? Bmw, merc, audi, porsche and many more use ZF. If you dont know shit, just STFU.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1
    • Oh and by the way, toyota which is soooo loved by almost all malaysians for its reliability also uses ZF in its Lexus LS and IS F. So, if he says 9 is enuf, then it is.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 15
    • 4g63tdsm on Nov 07, 2012 at 8:14 pm

      Just wait and see who would be next to double that with a gearbox with 2 final drives…. And call it an 18 speeder.

      Anyone remember the old mitsubishi colt?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3
  • I dun care how many gears it have… As long it must be reliable….it is so obvious some 4 to 5 gears cars fuel efficiency is better then 6 to 7 gears cars…. R u buying the gears or fuel efficient.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 7
  • tokmoh on Nov 07, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Beech pleez

    CVT is infinite ‘gear’

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1
  • hmm..9 speed is advantage for high way…but for me 6 or 7 is more than enough…by the way, now lots of AES…so what for 9 speed hu? plus, city drive 5 speed and max 6 speed

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1
  • VoidDance on Nov 07, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    Noo…. I need an 18 speeds transmission because I’m jealous of them lorry drivers!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1
    • Expatriate VN on Nov 07, 2012 at 1:53 pm

      Why 18, why not 36 speeds?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4
      • Dahon Speed P8 on Nov 07, 2012 at 2:40 pm

        What 18 ? 36 speeds? sound like riding bicycle that you need to crank on go up hills.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
    • kerelbort on Nov 07, 2012 at 2:35 pm

      get a mountain bike.. u can get 21 speed… hoho

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
      • a Sachs 3×9 rear hub, with 3 chain rings will give you 3*9*3 = 81 gears. Plenty of gear overlap (so you can skip worn out ones) and some nice uphill/downhill gears at either end.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • c14man on Nov 07, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Naturally ppl will think more is better. But what most drivers need is a more intelligent transmission that can more accurately predict the driver’s intentions and road situations. Nothing beats the good ol stick shift.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
    • Get manual car. your head determine the transmission “IQ” level.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • Expatriate VN on Nov 07, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    With 36 speeds, everybody is “jealous” of you, and you are not “jealous” on everybody since u r the special ONE ……

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • dude reliability is the most important part to take into the consideration.. 9 speed or beyond that can u imagine the complexity? more gear ratios mean the gearbox needs to shift up and down more frequent n how long can it last? n yes camry still uses 4 speed super ect tranny bcz it is simply reliable n low maintenaince compared to those 6-7 speeders

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 25
    • ss427 on Nov 07, 2012 at 3:10 pm

      Can you provide doc proof that Toyota ancient 4AT is more reliable than any of these super high tech 6-9 speeders? :( And that reputable gearbox companies such as ZF, Borg Warner, Aisin Warner all invested millions of $$ only have their gearboxes break down at 1/2 yearly intervels right?
      If more gear ratios=less reliablity, then you should time warp back to the mid to late 50s in USA… back then most AT are TWO SPEEDERS only :) They should last a 100 yrs without any maint lor?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 1
    • the greed toyolta on Nov 07, 2012 at 3:57 pm

      yes….iswara 3-speed auto is the most reliable and low maintenance!

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 1
    • Love Camry on Nov 07, 2012 at 11:19 pm

      All other country launched new Camry 2.0 with 6speed gb
      Only malaysia version fitted with 4 speed ! LoL

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • 7 speed on Nov 07, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    Some fools say 4 speed is better or cvt is better just bcos its in their superb modern camry or dugong or city.
    Claim to be everlasting, lighter, shifts lesser than worn parts lower.
    What logic bcos their brain is a 4 speedster.
    If that is their argument than why do the modern cars move towards more gears, better tech, deal clutch, turbo engines/ twin charging etc etc.
    I don’t know alot abt cars but I bother to learn and appreciate new tech.
    Engineering is all abt improving what you already have.
    So toyo lovers..transplant your brains.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1
  • 7 speed on Nov 07, 2012 at 4:37 pm

    I admire what majority of you write above against the 4 speed idols. Otherwise most companies will throw their old stocks here to sell bcos they think Malaysians are fools, and price it highly.

    Look at the h article above abt crash test…seems like a big deal. Even a small fiesta has better ratings I guess

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
  • Mitsubishi INVECS II is pretty darn good. Efficient and smart. For this new tech, why not?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
  • DArkerMarker on Nov 07, 2012 at 6:50 pm

    hahahaha, say only 9 speed is enough. LAter the gearbox developer gonna eat their own word and coming out with 10 speed gb…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • Atoyot on Nov 07, 2012 at 6:58 pm

    Who says 9 speed is enough? 9 Speed is a complete waste.

    Toyota says 4 speed is already sufficient for the new Rm150K toyota camry.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 4
  • NISSpengAN on Nov 07, 2012 at 7:34 pm

    nissan xtronic cvt and their own 4 speed gearbox are the best in the world.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1
  • Love Camry on Nov 07, 2012 at 11:27 pm

    Bla bla bla…Who say Toyota Camry fitted with two airbag , 4speed, old engine, and do not need a vehicle Stabality Assist is good enough ?
    Other country getting Camry with 6speed gb, seven airbags, V S A is a must .
    Big con job here in Malaysia ! LoL

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
    • ss427 on Nov 08, 2012 at 10:07 am

      Correction Bro, Toyota didn’t just con Bolehland buyers, they conned buyers from the whole SE Asia too.
      SG spec ACV50 POS Camry specs is the same as yours. You need to get the Camry Hybrid if you want VSC/TC… and there’s no 6 airbags in ANY Camry variant no matter how much $$ you’re willing to pay.

      Yes our Sillypore POS Camry 2.5 has no VSC/TC.. the prev ACV40 Camry had it wor… !@#$ And the SE Asia market specific front/rear end looks so damn awful and dated. The US market ACV50 looks better, although I won’t call it a beauty either.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • nazri on Nov 08, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    ZF trying to do psycho other gearbox maker

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • silver on Nov 08, 2012 at 4:27 pm

    i think even 9 gears is way to much … it would probably feel more like a cvt.. might as well jsut have the cvt.. don’t even know if u will feel the gear shift.. if u actually feel it i would become rather annoying ..

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
    • Paul Tan on Nov 08, 2012 at 4:34 pm

      Actually I don’t think it will be too much. My previous car and current car has 8 speed automatic, I don’t feel that the gearbox shifts too frequently. You don’t even feel the shifts that much because it’s so smooth. In fact now when I go back to even a 6-speed, I feel like the gearbox drags the gears too long. No need to mention 4-speed auto! I love how the 8 speed gearbox manages to always keep the RPM very low, thus making the engine seem more quiet, and always in the sweet spot of the turbo engine’s torque curve for maximum fuel efficiency.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
  • Whynot on Nov 09, 2012 at 1:15 am

    No matter if it is nine gears, Hybrid,EV or Extended EV still is the best choice for the future. But sadly it is being monopolized and slow in its production!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • It is just not economical to have more gear ratio for passenger car. It is quite different from bicycle where there can be up to 11 speed! haha…

    Regarding CVT and rubberband effect. I’ve drove a Nissan Maxima before and it is actually very comfortable. Even when overtaking, it felt ready to move on without the crazy rubber-band effect. Moreover, you’ll always cruise at very low RPM that CVT can easily achieve.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
 

Add a comment

required

required