The nine-speed transmission might be where the race to add gears ends, ZF Friedrichshafen CEO Stefan Sommer said, according to a report by Automotive News Europe.
He deemed nine speeds the “natural limit” because surpassing that number would add weight and complexity that cannot be offset by gains in fuel efficiency.
“There is no hard line, but you have to consider the law of diminishing returns. The question is whether adding even more gears makes sense,” he told the Automobilwoche Congress in Berlin. Automobilwoche is Automotive News Europe’s German sister publication.
ZF is expecting big sales gains for next year because Chrysler Group is adopting the German company’s eight- and nine-speed transmissions (pictured above) for mass-market models.
There have been reports of General Motors’ and Ford’s collaboration on nine- and 10-speed transmissions, as well as of Hyundai developing a 10-speed gearbox.
In an earlier Automotive News report, ZF North America president Julio Caspari hinted that a “Can-you-top-this?” cog race may be driven by marketing considerations rather than fuel economy, explaining that there is only an 11% gap between the most efficient transmissions today and a theoretically perfect gearbox.
Next year, ZF will start production of its 9HP nine-speeder at a Greenville, South Carolina plant, while Chrysler will manufacture that and the existing ZF eight-speeder under license at its Kokomo, Indiana plant.
ZF says the nine-speed transmission, which is designed for transverse-mounted engines, is up to 16% more efficient than a conventional six-speed automatic.
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Cool stuff, how does it compare with cvt?
The controls for a CVT are the same as an automatic: Two pedals (no clutch) and a P-R-N-D-L-style shift pattern. But while an automatic transmission has a set number of gear ratios (a.k.a. speeds), usually 4, 5 ,6,8, 9, the CVT can constantly change the relationship of engine speed to car speed. When driving a car with a CVT, you never hear or feel the transmission shift — it simply raises and lowers the engine speed as needed, calling up higher engine speeds (or RPMs) for better acceleration and lower RPMs for better fuel economy while cruising.
What i think is that: whether it’s a 9 speed or even speed fixed gears, they still can’t match the fuel efficiency of the CVT because there’s a gap (power loss) while changing gears. But fixed gears transmission does provide better or more spirited drive than CVT..
Im still prefer oldskool 6 speeds torque converter gb. New torgue converter gb nowdays offer better acceleration than CVT. Have u drive any CVT’s before? CVT like a gay, pickup lembab. Just my 2 cents
not all people like to drive crazy like you, there are certain drivers more prefer fuel efficient rather than performance
So, is gearbox for cars in the future going have more and more speed based on the trend we see? my guess is: we will b going back to single speed gearbox in the future…when electric cars take over…
CVT has no actual gears. all the ratios are made able virtually to make drivers feel as if there are actual gears.
this is one simple reason why there are 6 speed CVT, or 7 speed CVT when they dont even have a pair of gear ratios.
totally different thing.
CVT was developed many decades back, but were not popular. in the 1980s it was brought back in cars like Fdrd Fiesta (europe) and Subaru Justy but without the electronics mimicking multiple gears like the on introduced by Honda in the Jazz and City some 10 years ago.
heck…who need 9?!
many people are happy with ancient toyota 4-speeder…
You must be a hardcore Japanese car fan aren’t you? While I do agree with you 9 gears is a lot, but 4 gears is enough to make you happy? No wonder Jap car manufacturers can get away with ancient tecnology and yet can sell their cars like hot cakes. I get it now, it doesn’t matter how poorly equipped the japanese cars are, as long as it has good resale value, that’s enough for certain people.
dude, I think the guy is just being sarcasm.. y so srs
Either you just got internet or you truly can’t smell the sarcasm…
He’s being sarcastic towards the people who keep buying all those 4-speed Japanese car for the sake of the brands. Haiya.
someone did not get the SARCASM. having a bad day i see..
….or haven’t get laid for a long time, that explain everything
He is just sarcastic bro.
Ok. As you can see, Toyota/Lexus is is years behind their competitor in Japan itself.
For example: Lexus LFA sport car still using the ancient 6 speed gear box where as their counterpart like Nissan and Honda are using Twin/Multi plate gear box (Nissan GTR and the new Honda NSX).
Only in Japan you can differentiate the differences. But in Malaysia, Tak Payah compare la. All still using the ancient tech. AD want more income mah!
Rememeber: Compare it with Japanese Direct Market model.
golf GTI is 6 speeder bro.
F1 drivers prefer 6 speeds too, except that some using 7th gear to achieve higher top speed.
this is trolling.LOL
At japan, their camry AT LEAST get a cvt gearbox and muck nice looking front bumper..
When come to Malaysia….
I think it’s more like Malaysian 4 speed.
Don’t blame the Japanese, blame UMW and TCE
Couldn’t agree more. Damn UMW & ETCM!
Don’t forget HM as well.
couldn’t agree more, a good four speed tranny is good enough for point a to point b working routine, reliability is the top priority here, as not everyone can afford a spare car while waiting weeks/months for their 9 speeder to be fixed/replaced in the workshop. bottom line is, cars here r not cheap, and majority ppl r not rich enough.lol thumb up ladies!!
Koochai.
My hats off to u.
U r the MAN!!!! That is a well executed sniper shot to those ….
Well, u know exactly who im talking abt.
U r right ,im using 4speed Toyota…VIOS which sell at 80K
Cant Imagine 9 Speed Cost Us What Price >.<
So the price is determined by the number of gears now?
And to mention what you drive only baffles me more. Always something with “That” brand’s owners and fanboys. Can’t imagine how you people’s brains work..
he is being sarcastic lah bro.
Well, the 4 speeder on the Camty will not kwai tai like the tranny on kimchis and euros
Haha just imagine if is “manual” the driver will be cursing ZF engineer :)
why? Not a problem with a manual, Trucks have a lot more gears.
Seriously, for a passenger car, if they really needed that many gears, they could have used a simpler CVT.
I got my car stuck in 7th gear, tried to downshift to 6th, but it came back 4th, then i immediately shift up but it got jammed in reverse! Hahaha..
camry and dugong 4-speed SUPER ECT the best in the world!! advanced enough to be used up to year 2050!
enough with the sarcasm. some people just don’t get it. just be straight to the point.
Heck, I think 8 speeds is already too much for a car !
“The nine-speed transmission might be where the race to add gears ends”
He’s afraid of the Hyundai 10 speed gears? He’s not the one to decide where it ends. Different companies have different technologies. Probably some for bragging rights but we can’t deny that more gears equals better fuel economy and smoother power delivery.
So you know better than him when he says “surpassing that number would add weight and complexity that cannot be offset by gains in fuel efficiency”?
And I don’t think he’s afraid of competition or that the number should not go any higher. He simply says 9-speed is enough for ZF. Read again. The article isn’t that long.
let just see if he can tahan at gear 9 for how long :) maybe not even long than need to go down to 8..7…6…than send his car to hospital :D
ZF is scared of hyundai? Are you kidding me? You must be very ignorant or plain stupid. Whoever uses hyundai transmission? Bmw, merc, audi, porsche and many more use ZF. If you dont know shit, just STFU.
Oh and by the way, toyota which is soooo loved by almost all malaysians for its reliability also uses ZF in its Lexus LS and IS F. So, if he says 9 is enuf, then it is.
Lexus uses Aisin gearboxes, not ZF.
which is collaborating with Borg Warner? hence the aisin Warner gearbox in some Volvos?
Apply cold water to the affected, burned, scalded area.
Just wait and see who would be next to double that with a gearbox with 2 final drives…. And call it an 18 speeder.
Anyone remember the old mitsubishi colt?
I dun care how many gears it have… As long it must be reliable….it is so obvious some 4 to 5 gears cars fuel efficiency is better then 6 to 7 gears cars…. R u buying the gears or fuel efficient.
we are buying cars.. not gear or fuel efficiency
Beech pleez
CVT is infinite ‘gear’
hmm..9 speed is advantage for high way…but for me 6 or 7 is more than enough…by the way, now lots of AES…so what for 9 speed hu? plus, city drive 5 speed and max 6 speed
Noo…. I need an 18 speeds transmission because I’m jealous of them lorry drivers!
Why 18, why not 36 speeds?
What 18 ? 36 speeds? sound like riding bicycle that you need to crank on go up hills.
get a mountain bike.. u can get 21 speed… hoho
a Sachs 3×9 rear hub, with 3 chain rings will give you 3*9*3 = 81 gears. Plenty of gear overlap (so you can skip worn out ones) and some nice uphill/downhill gears at either end.
Naturally ppl will think more is better. But what most drivers need is a more intelligent transmission that can more accurately predict the driver’s intentions and road situations. Nothing beats the good ol stick shift.
Get manual car. your head determine the transmission “IQ” level.
With 36 speeds, everybody is “jealous” of you, and you are not “jealous” on everybody since u r the special ONE ……
dude reliability is the most important part to take into the consideration.. 9 speed or beyond that can u imagine the complexity? more gear ratios mean the gearbox needs to shift up and down more frequent n how long can it last? n yes camry still uses 4 speed super ect tranny bcz it is simply reliable n low maintenaince compared to those 6-7 speeders
Can you provide doc proof that Toyota ancient 4AT is more reliable than any of these super high tech 6-9 speeders? :( And that reputable gearbox companies such as ZF, Borg Warner, Aisin Warner all invested millions of $$ only have their gearboxes break down at 1/2 yearly intervels right?
If more gear ratios=less reliablity, then you should time warp back to the mid to late 50s in USA… back then most AT are TWO SPEEDERS only :) They should last a 100 yrs without any maint lor?
yes….iswara 3-speed auto is the most reliable and low maintenance!
All other country launched new Camry 2.0 with 6speed gb
Only malaysia version fitted with 4 speed ! LoL
Some fools say 4 speed is better or cvt is better just bcos its in their superb modern camry or dugong or city.
Claim to be everlasting, lighter, shifts lesser than worn parts lower.
What logic bcos their brain is a 4 speedster.
If that is their argument than why do the modern cars move towards more gears, better tech, deal clutch, turbo engines/ twin charging etc etc.
I don’t know alot abt cars but I bother to learn and appreciate new tech.
Engineering is all abt improving what you already have.
So toyo lovers..transplant your brains.
I admire what majority of you write above against the 4 speed idols. Otherwise most companies will throw their old stocks here to sell bcos they think Malaysians are fools, and price it highly.
Look at the h article above abt crash test…seems like a big deal. Even a small fiesta has better ratings I guess
Mitsubishi INVECS II is pretty darn good. Efficient and smart. For this new tech, why not?
hahahaha, say only 9 speed is enough. LAter the gearbox developer gonna eat their own word and coming out with 10 speed gb…
Who says 9 speed is enough? 9 Speed is a complete waste.
Toyota says 4 speed is already sufficient for the new Rm150K toyota camry.
nissan xtronic cvt and their own 4 speed gearbox are the best in the world.
Bla bla bla…Who say Toyota Camry fitted with two airbag , 4speed, old engine, and do not need a vehicle Stabality Assist is good enough ?
Other country getting Camry with 6speed gb, seven airbags, V S A is a must .
Big con job here in Malaysia ! LoL
Correction Bro, Toyota didn’t just con Bolehland buyers, they conned buyers from the whole SE Asia too.
SG spec ACV50 POS Camry specs is the same as yours. You need to get the Camry Hybrid if you want VSC/TC… and there’s no 6 airbags in ANY Camry variant no matter how much $$ you’re willing to pay.
Yes our Sillypore POS Camry 2.5 has no VSC/TC.. the prev ACV40 Camry had it wor… !@#$ And the SE Asia market specific front/rear end looks so damn awful and dated. The US market ACV50 looks better, although I won’t call it a beauty either.
ZF trying to do psycho other gearbox maker
i think even 9 gears is way to much … it would probably feel more like a cvt.. might as well jsut have the cvt.. don’t even know if u will feel the gear shift.. if u actually feel it i would become rather annoying ..
Actually I don’t think it will be too much. My previous car and current car has 8 speed automatic, I don’t feel that the gearbox shifts too frequently. You don’t even feel the shifts that much because it’s so smooth. In fact now when I go back to even a 6-speed, I feel like the gearbox drags the gears too long. No need to mention 4-speed auto! I love how the 8 speed gearbox manages to always keep the RPM very low, thus making the engine seem more quiet, and always in the sweet spot of the turbo engine’s torque curve for maximum fuel efficiency.
No matter if it is nine gears, Hybrid,EV or Extended EV still is the best choice for the future. But sadly it is being monopolized and slow in its production!
It is just not economical to have more gear ratio for passenger car. It is quite different from bicycle where there can be up to 11 speed! haha…
Regarding CVT and rubberband effect. I’ve drove a Nissan Maxima before and it is actually very comfortable. Even when overtaking, it felt ready to move on without the crazy rubber-band effect. Moreover, you’ll always cruise at very low RPM that CVT can easily achieve.