Dual-clutch transmissions: dry clutch on the way out?

Dual-clutch transmissions: dry clutch on the way out?

Ah, the dual-clutch transmission. There was once a time where upon hearing that a car was to be equipped with one, motorheads would speculate on whether it would deliver incredibly quick shift times made famous by Volkswagen’s DSG, enhancing a car’s ‘fun to drive’ factor. Things have certainly changed since then – now when a car buyer hears that a car is equipped with an advanced dual-clutch transmission, they ask whether it is a wet clutch or dry clutch system and what the failure rate of the ‘box is.

Although we’ve heard of issues with both types of dual-clutch transmissions, it’s the general belief that dry clutch versions of the transmission are far more problematic. Wet clutches run in an oil bath, and are generally used for higher torque applications, where there is more energy and heat to handle and the oil helps cool the gearbox down. However, as a downside, wet clutch gearboxes have higher parasitic losses because the oil has to be pumped through the gearbox to cool the clutches.

As an example, in Malaysia the six-speed DSG in the Volkswagen Golf GTI as well as the seven-speed S-Tronic units in Audis are wet clutch units. The last-generation Ford Focus TDCI, as well as the current Ford Mondeo and Ford S-MAX, also use wet clutch versions of dual-clutch transmission technology. There’s of course the higher performance applications of the form, like Porsche’s PDK and as found on the likes of the BMW M3 and M5, Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG as well as the grey market Nissan GT-R.

volkswagen-recalling-16-million-cars-globally-to-fix-dsg-gearboxes-71053_1

Dry clutch transmissions are said to be more efficient because of the reduced volume of oil being pumped through the system. This is because the torque capacity of these models are designed to be lower. Volkswagen’s seven-speed gearbox – paired to its 1.4 litre TSI engines – is a dry clutch variant, and so are the dual-clutch gearboxes found on the current generation Ford Fiesta and Ford Focus.

Let’s make one thing clear – no car company intentionally puts out a product into the market that it doesn’t think will last the lifespan of the car. The definition of lifespan is not forever of course, but an acceptable service lifespan that differs between manufacturers or products, usually at least 10 years onwards. Technology is tested extensively with all kinds of use cases to try to identify and predict issues that might arise. However, sometimes things slip through.

Swapping out additional cooling that was considered not needed in exchange for additional efficiency proved to have issues. Last year, Volkswagen announced that it would be swapping the synthetic oil in its DQ200 seven-speed dry dual-clutch transmission with mineral oil – essentially, the switch was to rectify a problem where electric malfunctions could occur in the gearbox power supply if synthetic gearbox oil was used, particularly if the vehicle is subject to a hot and humid climate, coupled with a high proportion of stop & go driving. Sounds like Malaysian roads for sure. Recently, Fiat recalled 19,500 units of the Fiat 500L because of dry-clutch DCT issues, and Honda recalled over 80,000 cars that were fitted with its DCT gearbox.

Because of these issues, some gearbox manufacturers are already moving away from dry dual-clutch transmissions for entry level cars. Getrag’s latest – the new 6DCT150 dual-clutch transmission – uses wet clutch technology instead of a dry clutch layout despite being an entry-level gearbox designed to handle loads of up to 170 Nm. As a comparison, the older 6DCT250 currently found in the Fiesta and Focus is rated up to between 240 Nm to 280 Nm, and uses dry clutch technology.

According to Getrag CTO Didier Lexa in an interview with DrivelineNEWS.com, these small engines and dry clutch gearboxes are often coupled with relatively heavy vehicles. When a small engine accelerates a large mass, the gearbox needs a longer synchronising time, which generates more heat. And even when installed in small vehicles, the thermal constraints on these small cars (which have smaller engine bays) are even greater than on C-segment or D-segment cars.

So in the end, it looks like a wet clutch is needed not just for powerful sporty cars but small engines in big cars as well. A dry clutch system only works well in an area in the middle of those two extremes; however, with advancements in oil pump technology, the difference in terms of efficiency between wet and dry clutch has been minimised. So is there really a point for dry clutch technology now?

getrag-dct-roadmap

Indeed, Getrag’s recently announced dual-clutch products all use wet clutch technology – no dry clutch in sight. Other than the new 6DCT150, there’s also a new seven-speed 7DCT300 and a hybrid 7HDT300, designed to pair a combustion engine with an electric motor. However, the existing 6DCT250 will live on for another six to eight years before it is retired.

With these new learnings, car manufacturers should pick and choose wisely before deciding on which gearbox to implement. For example, while Ford has opted to pair the Getrag PowerShift 6DCT250 with the 1.0 litre Ecoboost engine in the Ford Fiesta, the same 1.0 litre Ecoboost unit is paired with a Ford-GM torque converter six-speed automatic, the 6F, in the larger Focus in Europe. Volvo, a PowerShift user and which has a model line-up starting from C-segment (Focus-sized V40) onwards, has moved away from the 6DCT250, replacing it with an Aisin eight-speed torque converter auto in the latest generation of its cars.

Others are also trying to innovate dual-clutch transmissions in other ways. Both GM and Honda are experimenting with dual-clutch transmissions that have a torque converter to help smoothen out stop-and-go situations. Could that be the right path to work out the final few kinks from dual-clutch technology?

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Paul Tan

After dabbling for years in the IT industry, Paul Tan initially began this site as a general blog covering various topics of personal interest. With an increasing number of readers paying rapt attention to the motoring stories, one thing led to another and the rest, as they say, is history.

 

Comments

  • DSG is as crap as AMT gearbox in Proton Savvy….

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 52 Thumb down 41
    • No. My AMT clutch pack last 5-7 years. Most DSG clutch pack here: 2+ years only lol

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 106 Thumb down 7
      • Stay away Dual Clutch or Dry Clutch on Mar 17, 2014 at 3:28 pm

        I think 99% Malaysians, no matter how rich or how poor, the want cars with minimal problems. If a car is at high risk of giving problems because of the dry clutch or dual clutch, I think Malaysians will stay away from such car.

        In the past, many bought dry or dual clutch cars because we were all ignorant and thought is was the latest technology despite it being problematic.

        Malaysians are now a very practical lot. Even the super rich, don’t like to be irritated with hundreds of visits to the service center. Even if you have a driver to send your car for repair and wait there, it is still irritating for the boss.

        Also, even if you are super rich also, if you get stuck in some deserted highway, what is going to happen?

        If you are average of wealth, it is still a big burden to have your car breakdown. If you have 3 kids, a baby, and a wife in the car, what to do if you breakdown in hot sun? As we know, waiting for tow truck is a few hour affair. So, what the baby in the car going to do?

        I think it will be wise for us, as good consumers, to stay away from dual clutch or dry clutch. All the news, forum discussions, are full of complaints. Problem after problem. Companies selling dual clutch or dry clutch must also give customers minimum 10 year warranty for peace of mind.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 152 Thumb down 3
        • Bataman on Mar 17, 2014 at 5:36 pm

          Not only irratation…it’s SAFETY CONCERN.

          Imagine your gearbox fails while driving on highway…with that menacing 2 ton bus hot on your tail…the bus is not going to brake in time….

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 42 Thumb down 3
        • Paul Tan's Influence on Mar 17, 2014 at 5:58 pm

          Paul tan’s article got lots of power and influence in Malaysia. The last major piece he wrote on VSC, after that, everybody who wanted to buy a car insisted on VSC. No VSC, No talk. That is why Korean sales jumped because most Korean cars got VSC. Altis and Civic jatuh so much after that article.

          I won’t be surprised from today onwards, all dual clutch cars will be taboo.

          Never underestimate Paul Tan’s articles and influence. People actually quote him as bible reference when discussing on cars. People use him as citation.

          I think dual clutch will be really taboo

          Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 82 Thumb down 19
          • SamTheDaiLanNgong on Mar 17, 2014 at 6:22 pm

            Well, not really. It was not only caused of the VSC thingy, but also the new technology, gearbox, accessories, the LOOK of it. It is time to move on. Being an ignorant to think about RV and buying a 40k 2nd vios doesnt upgrade your status.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 4
          • sutrak on Mar 18, 2014 at 10:02 am

            really? wow, companies like great wall should hire paul tan to write great stuff about their vehicles.. then suddenly the whole m’sia will buy great wall.

            utter bollocks.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 7
          • Wet Dual Clutch Problematic on Mar 18, 2014 at 10:12 am

            I tried to trade in my Ford Focus 2013 but they guy want to give me RM$60k. I could not believe my ears. I ask him to repeat. He said again, RM60$k. Then he said about dual clutch, volkswagen, DSG and how it is junk status now.

            I think all Ford Focus, Fiesta and all VW DSG cars RV has plumetted so much. Should have bought Jap!

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 24 Thumb down 13
          • wow! i just learnt something new today – that paul tan is actually god! shall i start praying to paul tan now?

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 15
          • Green on Mar 18, 2014 at 10:36 am

            I beg to differ.

            U say Civic and Altis Sales drop alot.

            Is there any Rise in Ford or Kia Or Hyundai Sales? VW sales??

            I think you are expecting RM100k+ car to be sell as good as myvi.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 5
      • VGM = Torino Motors (FIAT) on Mar 18, 2014 at 11:52 am

        I think better VGM close shop in Malaysia because 90% of their cars are dry clutch. Better just call it a day and become like Torino Motors. No Malaysian look at Fiat now.

        Just tutup kedai. As for VW and Ford owners, sorry lah, your RV is going to become like either Lada or Daewoo in Malaysia.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 10
      • Jonathan on Nov 06, 2014 at 12:46 am

        My Savvy AMT also. 5 years no problem. Still going strong.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
    • kzm (Member) on Mar 17, 2014 at 2:14 pm

      Gud article n info for people like me… I can not comment more since im not technical type of guy.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 6
    • TeresaCockCNYClown on Mar 17, 2014 at 3:51 pm

      Automatic gearbox equipped by Proton in my Wira 1.5 is still going strong without any problem even though at its age of nearly 17 years.

      But the mistake was when Proton also used it in their Wira 1.6 and Perdana V6 whereby the gearbox obviously can’t take the load of the bigger displacements.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 28 Thumb down 4
      • Perdana V6 has very different gearbox and has INVECS-I fuzzy logic TCU. The main problem is the gearbox cooling system – there was no gearbox oil cooler! Problem only solved when Proton decided to put an oil cooler for final batches of PV6.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 2
        • some say..their GB suitable for 1.6 engine and not 2.0..no wonder perdana V6 owner suffer alot..

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
  • Danny Lim on Mar 17, 2014 at 12:56 pm

    Dry clutch alots problem!!!

    Anyone on Wet Clutch here? can discuss got problem too? Thankss

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1
    • fefifofum on Mar 17, 2014 at 1:37 pm

      Wet-clutch 6 speed here, honestly no issues at all so far since 2010, touch wood. Dry has too much issues reported by my friends. All have sold their cars.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 32 Thumb down 1
      • Chong Yew on Jul 18, 2014 at 2:51 am

        Yup.. I drive a VW with a 6-speed DSG — wet clutch, I suppose. No issues since I bought the car in 2011.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2
    • Wet Dual Clutch Problematic on Mar 18, 2014 at 10:06 am

      Not just dry. All dual clutch got problems. My Ford Focus comes with wet dual clutch. It has broken down so many times. The car just halts and you cannot even engage the gear. Just stuck, cannot even push the car to side of the road.

      Kena curse so many times by people passing by telling me to push my car to the side of the road.

      Never ever buy dual clutch. Wet or dry. Look at the Japanese, always wise, there is a reason why they still use single clutch in all their cars.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 14
      • Jared Schwager on Jun 28, 2014 at 3:23 am

        Actually the Focus has a dry dual clutch. The problem with those DCTs is the seal between the transmission and the DCT leaks allowing transmission fluid to drip onto the clutch material. In order for this to be resolved a revised seal needs to be installed and a new clutch pack needs to also be installed.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 2
    • Hi Danny. Nope, never had a problem with my wet clutch DSG. Mileage almost 60k km. Still razor sharp.
      Contrary to some posts here, DSG is increasingly being used in high-end motors and in sports cars, including the McLaren MP4-12C, Audi R8V10, Ferrari 458, Nissan GT-R, new 911, BMW M3…..the list goes on.
      Plus someone posted that the DSG was developed to be fuel efficient, but it most certainly was not. Audi and Porsche popularized it’s use in race cars but it took VW to put it in their high end mainstream models. The performance advantage was such that other manufacturers followed suit. BTW, DCTs are also used in motorcycles. F1 cars use seamless shift gearboxes.
      Cheers

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2
      • Bataman on Jun 24, 2014 at 7:39 am

        Using in Motorsport is different story. The cars are maintained by the company, they just want to come in 1st place. Using it in your day to day vehicle is totally different, you want something that will not breakdown(at least, minimalised all possibilities), not to win Ah Beng in a race.

        Furthermore, in US/Europe, cars are cheap. After 3 years, just throw it away and buy another one. Not like here, we take a loan like becoming slaves to the bank. Which is why people here think very carefully when buying a car as it’s a long term burden. And you don’t want it to break down and become junk status while still have outstanding loan.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 41 Thumb down 0
    • Chong Yew on Nov 04, 2014 at 11:39 pm

      Dry clutch 6-speed DSG on EOS. No issues with the gearbox since 2011.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
  • sudonano (Member) on Mar 17, 2014 at 1:12 pm

    but then, is DCT answering a question no one is asking?

    Normal automatics have advanced so much that they can match the super fast shifting of a DCT, almost, with better reliability.

    They could do like a hybrid option, where they have a torque converter in low speeds and in “sport” mode, it works like a DCT. That won’t be too bad, right?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 6
    • ManDan on Mar 17, 2014 at 3:43 pm

      Depends what you want the car to do. If you want something reliable, the CVT, Wet clutch DCT, Normal auto or hybrid can do that.

      Only thing here is how much torque you want from the gears and also response time; which is related more towards performance. If you want response time, the normal auto or cvt may not give you that oomph. Also, normal auto gearbox may not handle cars with high torque well because of the torque converter.

      Then there is the downshift experience. CVT and Auto gearbox may lose on responsiveness but provides less jerkiness whilst well tuned DCT may blip the throttle for downshifts for better response and less jerk (but at a higher cost). In the end depends on where is the balance to satisfy the masses.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 3
      • qwerty on Mar 18, 2014 at 6:15 am

        Not entirely true.

        Conventional torque-converter auto gearbox can handle a huge amount of torque with some fine-tuning. The SL65 AMG’s 102kgm torque is handled by a five-speed auto gearbox. :)

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0
        • Newcomer on Nov 05, 2014 at 2:56 pm

          That’s why Mercerdes need to use 5 speed auto gearbox instead of using the seven speed gearbox.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • AVH (Member) on Mar 17, 2014 at 1:17 pm

    It’s great that companies are trying to rectify the problem instead of abandoning it all together. All advance and new technology will always be rusty(clearly seen in military appliances) in the first few years and a technology as complicated as a dual clutch certainly needs time to heal its stigma. As of now I do not have complete trust in DCT to confidently advice people to procure one(espacially low end models) but time will come to change that. If I am not mistaken CVT also went through this dark period of inreliabolity before becoming what it is today.

    Moving on and slightly off topic, I notice that getreg has a transmission that can be coupled to a hybrid powertrain. If I am not mistaken Proton is currently using Getreg supplied gearbox for its manual(or was it CVT), this could also mean a second theory of a proton hybrid power plant(my first theory was that it would use Hondas IMA), proton could pair its power plant and Getregs transmission with its EV and battery derive from its EV programme. But again, lack of transparency and preview of this programme before mass production(said to be end of this yr) could spells imminent failure.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 3
    • Proton currently uses 5/6-speed manual box from Getrag, and CVT box from Punch Powertrain based on ZF’s CVT design. 5-speed manual Aichi box is still used in Satria Neo and Persona.

      I don’t think Proton will use IMA/any parallel hybrid systems. I guess they will use Exora REEV and Persona REEV series hybrid system (similar to Chevrolet Volt). This system layout doesn’t need gearboxes.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 3
    • ok

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 4
  • Why can’t VW and Audi use gearbox like BMW does , the 8 speed normal automatic. It is not DCT but makes many car reviewers like it as it can shift as fast as DCT, somemore free of problem.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 37 Thumb down 3
    • last i heard from owners….beemer have their shares of problematic gearbox…& its a normal torque converter type

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 19
      • BMW Fanboi (Member) on Mar 17, 2014 at 2:33 pm

        So far so good. My ZF 8 speed auto is fine. But the shifts are not as fast as DSG to be honest.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 1
        • I have seen a taiwan show mention that for 320i and 520i the 8 speed normal steptronic is just for smooth shifting. whereas the 328i and 528i or even higher end model uses the 8 speed sport steptronic that is faster shifting

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2
      • rally_fan on Mar 17, 2014 at 2:39 pm

        what you said about bmw gearboxes do not apply to the new 8 speed autoboxes. and a new current torque convertor auto box is not exactly “normal”, or even a bad thing. they are efficient, quick and also very smooth and quiet. Mercedes is also continuing on the same path.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0
      • I have seen a taiwan show mention that for 320i and 520i the 8 speed normal steptronic is just for smooth shifting. whereas the 328i and 528i or even higher end model uses the 8 speed sport steptronic that is faster shifting

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
    • Because VW and Audi sells most cars in countries where petrol is expensive. A dual-clutch gearbox will always have a higher efficiency than a torque converter automatic. This is the reason why it was developed.

      BTW: The Polo 1.6 CKD has a torque converter automatic…

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 2
    • ManDan on Mar 17, 2014 at 3:46 pm

      Normal Automatic gearbox may not be as quick as a DCT. The DCTs are very fast at gear shifts. Try to drag with one and you will see how fast the gear shifts. I may not be a fan of the Dry Clutch DCT, but man can they sprint!

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1
    • frenzyaustin on Mar 17, 2014 at 5:18 pm

      Because price.
      Why not tell the VW owner upgrade to BMW instead. Same headache but much nicer and more quality ride.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3
    • torqueconverterfan! on Mar 17, 2014 at 6:32 pm

      @lala volkswagen does have normal 8-speed auto in the Touareg, and Audi uses 8-speed auto in the A6 Hybrid and A8 Hybrid. and then of cos vw has the normal gearbox in polo 1.6 and polo sedan 1.6

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
    • racefan on Mar 18, 2014 at 11:58 am

      BMW and Audi are both using the ZF 8 speed automatics, depending on which models. It is usually the higher end luxury models with big engines or with Quattro

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
  • Green on Mar 17, 2014 at 1:30 pm

    High Performance with Low Reliability – High Technology??

    It’s a Half Baked Job like those from University…
    Developed by Fresh Graduate?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 9
  • racefan on Mar 17, 2014 at 1:40 pm

    I agree. I think dry clutch DCT are probably on the way out, mostly due to durability issues.

    Need to remember that DCTs were all wet type initially. The dry clutch type only started when manufacturers pushed to meet tighter emissions and efficiencies in the smaller car segment. Dry clutch DCTs are lighter units because of the omission of the oil system for the clutches, which invariably also limits torque rating.

    However I think DCTs will still have its place in the market. We need to understand why the DCT solution was there in the first place.

    Generally cost to make a DCT is somewhere between torque conveter automatics and manual. DCT still use helical gearsets much like standard manual boxes but isn’t as complicated as the automatic. Yet the DCT offers the quickest gearshifts in the market. For this reason I think there will still be a place for it. One downside of DCT is weight. It is significantly heavier than a manual. It is ok for a road car especially the heavier wet type, used in all high performance sports cars but DCT have failed to appear in motorsport(where rules allow) because the fast-shift benefits are not worth the weight penalty and the added complexity. I believe it will never appear in racing

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1
  • Alahai on Mar 17, 2014 at 2:07 pm

    Vios 4 speeder is better than DCT DSG. PERIOD.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 80
    • Alahai…. Hey vios 4 speeder. Pegi main jauh2.. Old school thing no need to mention here. At least proton and honda go for CVT.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 41 Thumb down 7
  • rocky balboa on Mar 17, 2014 at 3:00 pm

    In my humble opinion, reliability should be put as top priority followed by innovation/technology. can’t imagine your car stalled at highway when most other cars are doing 100km/h!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 1
  • why do they so bother to focus on fun-to-drive clutch? they should focus on active safety features.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2
  • Using Focus TDCi (wet DSG). No problems for a few years. Friend has old Golf GTi (Wet Clutch) also no issues. Agree on the problem with the dry as cousin as a Fiesta and had to change it. Hence why i’m quite curious if people actually know the difference between wet and dry clutches. Most people assume that they’re all the same and just assumes they all have issues.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0
    • Bataman on Mar 17, 2014 at 5:40 pm

      You are right…i didn’t know there was wet and dry DSG….all i know is STAY AWAY FROM DSG. LOL.

      Probably a good idea to follow…can’t trust em DSG…too many problems reported.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6
      • Think you’re missing the point. It’s about customer knowledge. Don’t always listen to what others say. Do some research on your own. No issues with them wet clutches until now so it’s not all doom and gloom for DSG.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2
      • Wet Dual Clutch Problematic on Mar 18, 2014 at 10:08 am

        Not true. Ford wet dual clutch always breakdown. Actual owner here. Don’t bull to people please.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 8
        • Your ford wet dual clutch had an inherent problem not happening in other brand of cars so do some research before shooting from the hip!!!

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1
  • budleee on Mar 17, 2014 at 3:50 pm

    hmm, with the torque converter automatic transmission becoming more efficient and the CVT that mimic the “feel” of a torque converter, while wet clutch DSG is more efficient, is it the death of the dry clutch DSG…

    yup…most probably..

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
  • Joker on Mar 17, 2014 at 3:59 pm

    I wonder why they dun make dual clutch manual transmission like the 1 f1 is using right now….

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
    • racefan on Mar 17, 2014 at 4:29 pm

      F1 cars don’t use dual clutch boxes, I’m afraid

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
    • ManDan on Mar 17, 2014 at 4:59 pm

      F1 uses single clutch sequential gearbox. lighter setup for the car.

      Mind you, the DSG is about 60-70Kg more than normal sequential gear boxes

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0
      • Joker on Mar 17, 2014 at 5:25 pm

        Ahhh.. i though the powershift tingy is a dual clutch system in which it uses a different clutch to launch from stand still and to shift gear…

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
        • It seems like you’re very new to gearbox technologies. I suggest you to read wikipedia and understand the basic concept of each type of gearboxes.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2
        • racefan on Mar 18, 2014 at 12:03 pm

          F1 gearboxes are essentially just like normal manual gearbox. The clever bits are in the shifting mechanism. In fact they momentarily engage 2 gears at once during shifts. And like all proper racing gearboxes, they do not need to work the clutch to change gears. Clutch only used when when moving from standing still.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
  • sonyman on Mar 17, 2014 at 4:49 pm

    ohh lucky my S40 is a wet clutch type, but seriosly, if i were to be able to choose again, i prefer aisin.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
  • EnergyAnalyst on Mar 17, 2014 at 5:22 pm

    What is that sound?

    Oh is the sound of RV of a lot of VWs and Ford Fiesta and Focus flushing down the drain

    Oh dear oh my

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 7
  • sktan on Mar 17, 2014 at 5:56 pm

    in simple word , cheap and the most less problem is

    MANUAL

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 46 Thumb down 1
    • LOLOLOL on Mar 17, 2014 at 11:16 pm

      Ya true and also a damn good anti theft device. Not many robber can drive manual…. lol

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 0
  • Leon Loke on Mar 17, 2014 at 6:14 pm

    MANUFACTURER CAN HAVE DSG TRANSMISSION ON THEIR CARS BUT PLS PRINT THE WEAR AND TEAR PART AND HOW OFTEN IT NEEDS TO BE REPLACE IN THE SERVICE BOOK.
    FOR EXAMPLE:

    GOLF/JETTA 1.4 TSI :
    REPLACE MECHATRONIC EVERY 25K KM
    REPLACE CLUTCH EVERY 25K KM
    REPLACE COIL PACK EVERY 40K KM

    THEN PPL WHO BUY WILL KNOW THE FREQUENCY AND COST INVOLVE, THEN NO ONE WILL BLAME THEM.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 1
  • golfkaki on Mar 17, 2014 at 10:04 pm

    Doomed for life with my TSI , no rv to clear HP loan. Damn VW. Twice sudah tukar mechatronic n clutch plate and dread thinking when next dsg failure. Should class suit.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0
  • sepul on Mar 17, 2014 at 11:39 pm

    From my understanding, maintenance for dual clutch gearboxes, be it dry or wet, is pretty similar to a manual gearbox, except that is has additional components to consider as wear and tear parts, which is the actuators and mechatronic components that controls the clutches. This is an automated manual in concept, so the “left foot” needs service and repair too.

    I’ll have 2nd thought for Fords now. Sigh.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
  • racefan on Mar 18, 2014 at 12:06 pm

    Interestingly, the Merc SLS AMG and all Ferrari with DCT are using pretty much the same Getrag DCT unit

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
  • Woo… the clutch on my smart forfour which is AMT still working fine. 7 years already. But then again, car is damn light and generates wheel spin every acceleration. Only today, reverse actuator start to give way. Harder to engage R now.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
  • hoooooo on Mar 18, 2014 at 6:28 pm

    DSG mah
    Drivetrain Selalu Gagal … :D

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
  • Steve Kok on Mar 19, 2014 at 9:13 pm

    My Ford Fiesta has been in and out of service center because of the DCT issue.
    The clutch only can last about 40,000KM …
    Changed twice in 3 years.
    Stay away from dual clutch cars!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2
  • The main problem of both gearbox is the the heat.how to reduce the heat..so try to use metal treatment concentrate (MTC) is a oil produce by polytron.Put only 5% of total amount of gearbox oil sure your gearbox will smooth running.this oil 99% reduce friction between metal to metal.contact me if i want more info about this product.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
  • Reshandran on Aug 01, 2014 at 6:06 pm

    lot of comments on volkswagen 7 speed DSG .
    well i am using a Jetta for a year and half already , nearly 70k km running . till date i have not faced any problem with the gearbox .
    when my friends ask what i do . i mentioned to them this is a daily car . drive it as a daily car. not sports car .

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 2
    • Exactly!! Buy a TSI ,drive like a GTI then complain like mad! Get a sports car to drive !!!

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
      • BUT yes the inherent problem generally with dry clutches are as the article above says ” these small engines and dry clutch gearboxes are often coupled with relatively heavy vehicles. When a small engine accelerates a large mass, the gearbox needs a longer synchronising time, which generates more heat. And even when installed in small vehicles, the thermal constraints on these small cars (which have smaller engine bays) are even greater than on C-segment or D-segment cars.”

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • jesse on Sep 08, 2014 at 8:45 pm

    Sometimes things should be left alone.All these DCT’s and 1 million speed transmissions all sound good on paper but in the real world,they aren’t as good as your regular 6 or 7 speed tranny’s..simple and functional and for the most part bullet proof!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • intermilan on Sep 25, 2014 at 11:59 am

    Long live the King!
    Long live manual gearbox!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 0
  • Manual Masterace on Nov 04, 2014 at 11:43 pm

    Use manual stick and clutch pedal la
    Wanna be lazy and be sporty and be able to smoke people at the same time?
    PDK,GTR’s clutch,BMW’s DCT,and the list goes on
    Dun have money den wan DCT?
    Always prepare ur workshop no.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 0
  • adam seow on Nov 06, 2014 at 6:03 pm

    Let this be a lesson to most M’sian,not all new tech. are great.Like computers,cameras the early generation are guinea pig.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
  • anonymous on Feb 05, 2015 at 11:35 pm

    Germans just dont test their cars before they sell them! Thats the problem…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
  • Anyone has this 6DCT250 on ford fiesta/ focus 2011 onward, please check how many complaints….
    https://www.change.org/p/ford-ceo-mark-fields-ford-recall-faulty-focus-and-fiesta-transmissions

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • Ford should replace the powershift DCT, immediately! There is a huge class action lawsuit on Fiesta/Focus 2011 rhru 2015, equipped with this “engineering masterpiece”!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
  • if anyone still has hopes for the Focus DCT, which I doubt, navigate to Focus Fanatics website and look at the pain and grief on there. Don’t buy one.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • VW owner on May 08, 2017 at 12:01 pm

    What ever you guys say about dsg, it is still the best GB…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
  • Frank on Feb 02, 2018 at 9:24 pm

    Hyundai and Kia have introduced hybrid cars with duel dry clutch auto boxes. I shoudn`t think they have ignored problems associated with dry clutches. They have a good reputation to lose if they produce dodgy gear boxes.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • Faris on Jul 14, 2019 at 4:45 am

    Thhese dry clutches are a joke even from Korean, japanese and Germans these car manufacturers think so little of their consumer, i had a car equiped with Dct and failed in the middle of knowhere, and when i wanted to claim warranty for the cars they pointed out that I’ve modified the spoiler of the car, and aftermarket brake calipers, so the warranty might be void and takes a few months to process a gearbox exchange, i have only one car and a yamaha scooter, and the way to my workplace is 44km long.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
 

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