Upcoming all-new VW Passat could debut all-new powertrain features
The Volkswagen Group announced some new powertrain details at this year’s annual Vienna Motor Symposium. We’ve got some new engines and a new gearbox to look forward to in future Volkswagen Group cars. Here’s the low down.
New ten-speed DSG gearbox
VW is jumping from the current seven-speed count straight up to ten ratios for their next generation DSG gearbox. The most gears in a Volkswagen right now would be eight – but that gearbox is not a DSG. The eight ratios are provided by an Aisin torque converter automatic gearbox, installed in cars like the Volkswagen Touareg.
A jump to ten would one-up rivals like Mercedes-Benz who have announced nine-speed automatics, but Volkswagen says the primary aim is to increase efficiency of future cars by up to 15% by 2020. The new gearbox family would be installed in both transverse or longitudinal engine bays, and will be able to take torque of up to 500 Nm.
New 2.0 litre TDI bi-turbo diesel engine
The next generation Volkswagen Passat will get the option for a twin-turbocharged 2.0 litre TDI diesel engine producing up to 236 horsepower, impressive output figures for a turbodiesel engine of that size. Volkswagen’s single turbo TDI currently tops out at 181 horsepower.
New 2.0 litre TSI petrol engine
We sorta already knew this thanks to all the concept cars that the group have been putting out lately. The group’s 2.0 litre TSI engine will be pushed to produce about 400 horsepower in its next iteration. We’ve previously seen a 420 PS version in the Audi TT quattro sport concept and a 400 PS version in the Golf R 400 Concept.
New 1.0 litre TSI three-cylinder petrol engine
The next step for the EA211 engine family will be a three-cylinder TSI engine with 1.0 litres of displacement, which will first find its way into the Polo facelift and the Golf. The engine will have three power ratings – the Polo will get a 94 hp / 160 Nm version and a 109 hp / 200 Nm version, while the Golf will get a 114 hp / 200 Nm version. Looks like this new engine will replace the 1.2 TSI.
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10 times more problematic?
No, currently VW sells 15 times more cars than Toyota in Europe.
With the ten-speeder, it will sell 20 times more… :D
in your dream eh? ;)
Volkswagen cannot even sort our their current DSG problems, they want to now come out with 10 Speed DSG. This is like a little 10 yr old boy. He cannot piss straight. Everytime he go kencing, he messes the toilet seat. But yet, he says, he wants to have sex now.
Any car, even with 2014 DSG box can only be sold in cold countries. If it is used in hot countries like Malaysia, it will be prone to continous breakdowns.
This was admitted in May 2013 in black and white by VW AG Germany in a press statement to the world.
There will be fanboys and owners of VW that will come here and say people are only spreading rumours. Well, they did this long ago when people were complaining about DSG issues in 2011. The fanboys came here and said, all those spreading rumours were jealous and got no money, that is why they are jealous.
Then when VW AG came out with the press release in black and white, all the VW fanboys shut their mouths. All keep quiet and silent in forums.
Now, the VW fanboys and salesman are back again saying that the DSG issues has been cured and they were 2011 cars and older. But in actual fact, even VW Germany admitted, there is no cure for the faulty DSG. People in hot countries like Malaysia with lots of traffic jam will just have to suffer continuous breakdowns.
China got fed up with VW, they even told VW to give all their existing buyers 10 years warranty. When in Malaysia going to do the same?
Prospective buyers better read facebook comments in VW Malaysia page. Of course again, fanboys have come in and said those are fake facebook accounts. But strangely each of those negative comments come from facebook accounts that have been opened for years with at least 200 friends each. So, how can they be fake?
There is a reason why each service centre takes about 1 month just to make a regular service appointment if you want to service your VW. This is because they are overworked with hundreds of backlog DSG rosak cars.
That alone they cannot handle. Everyday more than 100 cars come with DSG problems and all the workshops in Klang Valley cannot handle the complaints. You see Toyota, Honda and Nissan, call today, tomorrow can already service your car.
So to all VW fansboys and owners as well as salesman, instead of coming online and saying people are spreading rumuors, do something for your customers, go ask your HQ to repair their current 6 and 7 Speed DSG. Then only come out with 10 Speed.
There is a fix for DSG… it’s called wet clutch. Getrag is moving to wet clutches entirely. All new DSGs they will develop will be wet clutch ones.
And did it cross your mind that there is no fix to the troubled 7 speed DSG, and that that might be the reason why they are developing a 10 speed that does not have the problems?
Some people would even believe that earth has the shape of a jackfruit if it’s posted on facebook… :D
Because you are an asian build cars like Toyota which sucks more
Toyota has a market share of only 4% in Europe. No wonder as European speed limits are higher than the 110km/h Toyota’s are designed and built for.
Shut Up lah
Bullshit lah you. Toyota sold 847,540 new vehicles in Europe last year.
If you were right, VW would have sold 12713100 (12.7 million) in Europe ALONE last year; and this would mean VW should be the largest automaker in the world.
Sad to wake you up but dude, you’re either sleeping or is drunk.
Does not matter how much they sell, the cars cannot be used in Malaysia as it is a hot country.
What he mean is 15 times less than Toyota..
That is because Europeans simply so not know any better. I know, I live in Europe. And the cars are just as shitty as in the States…
This announcement is not for Asia countries so stop complaining how bad it is , is the weather not the gearbox , the gearbox works in all condition but need maintance , every thing has their pros and cons
10 speed…They better make sure that it is reliable (at least 10 years)
Please solve ur problematic dsg7 first!!!!!! be4 u increase to 10…idiot VW!
2.0 litre TDI diesel engine producing up to 236 horsepower?
Toyota 86 has 203hp and it’s a 2.0 petrol engine…
Toyota – Torqueeeeeeeeee POWAAA
VW – Torque POWA
Notice how long the toyota has to drag for the peak power to come in. Jokes aside, it’s silly to compare. :D
Comparing an NA engine to a turbo-charged one? Not fair lar bro!
You’re right. The petrol engine should be much more powerful. That’s why formula 1 uses petrol engines and not diesel.
Technically saying, yes. Petrol should yield more horsepower when burned.
However, F1 engines only produce those insane power when revved to 13000 rpm above (and they last for two or three races only). Normal production just can’t do that because of reliability.
If figures are all that matters, then you’d be better off just looking at brochures. Where the 86 is undoubtedly one of the better handling car is due to the fact that power is just right for the car’s weight, balance and drivetrain. Some people like Natural Aspirated engines, some prefer force induction.
Because of bi turbo you noob
Because of bi turbo you noob
aha
10 Speed DSG = 10 times more Unreliable . Not looking forward to all the jam on our roads caused by more VW breaking down..
All the tow truck drivers will be very happy. I hear they got special discount for VW owners.
Eh kid , stupid asshole no money then don’t insult Volkswagen cars la , jealous of people who have ? Or you are just one of the people who don’t have evidence but still wan to mess with ppl
you got nothing between your ears ron
Should be problemless, because the clutch and mechatronic has been replace by troque converter
It’s still a DCT.
“clutch and mechatronic replaced by torque converter”
Do u hv any idea of what u say?
Are u dreaming?
Honda’s upcoming 8-speed DCT uses a torque-converter too. He is partially right, but perhaps not on VW’s new DSG.
A DCT with torque converter?
Hell, do you even know what you’re saying? How you stuff a dual clutch plate into a torque converter?
Why you need a manual-like clutch plate at all, if you have a torque converter?
i think VW are just blowing water, ZF themselves have said 9 speeds is the natural limit of gearboxes, adding more gears doesn’t necessarily mean is better, i would be more than happy with 7 speed, convetional auto, silky smooth
like Proton comes up with their twin turbo engines? lol
Stop being jealous of German cars when you don’t have the requirement to judge the cars
Because you poor
Hi , I’m from UK , I believe you guys are mostly Malaysian , on top of that , stop insulting European cars which had twin turbo, for instance BMW cars. I have read all the comments , I am absolutely very angry with the insults from the ppl , some of them don’t even own a Volkswagen but still pretending To complain about the issue . Thank you
An English with bad English?
Busted! Stop pretending to be an English!
Can’t I?
Or you are just jealous of who am I?
What the heck is going on in Malaysia?
i think some stupid ppl trying to act very smart that they can win volkswagen
Indeed more speed more problematic.Lower speed lesser issues (6 SPD DSG).
bro.. those 6 speeders is wet clutches…
and the DSG problem oni occurs in hot climate country like Malaysia..
It’s problem free in Europe..
It occurs in countries like Taiwan and the US too. I wonder why then.
You mean there are no summers in Europe?
and let the bashing begin…..
thanks but still no thanks cause you haven’t solved yet the 7-speed DSG problem
No need 10 speed boss, just make your car more reliable. That itself is a big satisfaction.
the DSG will be constantly changing gears on the road, life span will change from 10 months to 7 months.
Aiyo! Make it 11spds easier … jst like Road Bike .. .kakakaka
10 speed……I’am never a believer of more gears= better, yes same goes for the Toyotas trusty four. I always believe six to be the most balance but that’s just me. But this is no conventional auto no…..Acura and Hyundai are already at Eight and Merc moving to nine , this is a ten speed dual clutch, oh dear. If I do recalled correctly, the DSG problem is usually related to the gear being unable to pick one at lower speed, a problem common to most bad auto torque-converter, but can proof serious if prolong in a start-stop situation in something as complicated as a DSG. Now more gears means closer ratio which also means more gears to pick at said lower speed ie: 7 speed probably means that the gearbox decides between only 2 gears at NKVE 30kph crawl while a 10 speed probably means it now has 3 to juggle around……dosent this means the probability of a failure will increase if VW still hasn’t solve the initial issue, even if the gearbox dosent fail, there’s still the infamous low-speed jerk of a dual-clutch known to all brands of dual-clutch. Frankly I’m worried. Unless VW is planning to keep the same initial ratio as the 7 speeder and relegate the higher gears exclusively to overdrive much like Porsches PDK, but that will be one hell of an overdrive. Honestly I would slide toward a CVT instead of this.
Other than that, we still see the usual down sizing trend of VW, as also joining Ford, Kia and Honda in the above 100hp 1.0l engine group.
Precisely. Thus far if ever there was a car that does the job with more than 6 gears would be the current 5 series. It has 8, but it’s smooth and NOT undecissive. Even the Merc 7 speed gets “confused” in sudden acceleration.
At the rate they are going, they will all end up with CVTs with infinite gear rations and no gears. :p
I can see why one could use with more gears. Especially for TDI cars. TDI engines have very very narrow powerband and to maximize it, they need more gears (think a lorry with 15 gears and you wont be far off).
The move to more gears are actually more catered to changes in modern engine characteristics. Most modern engines (save for the few exceptional high performance ones)now have a narrower rpm range than the those of yesteryears where one can easily find even a normal saloon car spin up to 7500-8000rpm.
The new GDI turbo engines, operate at lower rpm ranges given that now peak torque arrives at between 1800-3500 rpm. The more gears the gear box has, the better it can maintain the engine’s sweet spot, maximizing efficiency.
GDI turbo engines are also the most efficient at light/partial throttle and the lower rpm range, where it can go really lean.
The result. Better fuel economy.
So its not that they are just doing it for the fun of it, they are actually doing it to match the new engines.
True, I never thought of the Diesel engine and modern charged engine part. Multiple speed transmission does take advantage of the massive early torque coming out of these engines, truck engine like those massive V8s in the scania R730, which does a whooping 3,500 Nm from its 16.5l V8 at only 1500rpm and max out only does 3000rpm. But this still brings more questions from me…..why DSG?
I know it is a forte of volkswagen ,being the first manufecturer to popularize dual clutch transmission. DSG is still very complicated, and when you have that many speed why still DSG. I can only conclude is to pride as I can’t think of many other reasons it should have dual clutch. And it still dosent comfort my initial worry that the clutch will be confused at crawling speed, Large prime movers with multiple gears(scania uses 14) shift gears multiple time even at speeds below 30kph;1st gear only crawls to 10kph before 2nd(or 1st high). Now with even more gears and a modern low revving engine car, it still has to be further confused its large set of gears, which dosent help my accusation that DSG has a higher probability of failing or jerking at slow traffic speed. VW did say that conventional auto will be used in sub-golf cars(up! , polo, etc….), and considering this has a torque limit if 500Nm ,higher performance car will be out of the question, leaving to cars like the golf, Passat….cars that usually gets driven by people who gets stuck in traffic daily.
CVT is a much better alternative in this instance, but it looses out on DSG by not giving the correct gears at the right time which is something Europeans with their small windy road looks for. And before we say CVT can’t handle the torque of a modern engine, the Japanese 44tonne Type-10 main battle tank has a Mitsubishi source 3000+ Nm 16l V8(sounds familiar….) ….. Mated to a CVT, if it’s tough enough for a tank, I think It can be done in a car. And I believe a better alternative in Asian country…..and this is from a cvt hater.
Formula 1 Williams CVT. Banned coz too imba.
The difference with CVT and DSG?
Response. Feel. The ability to downshift and upshift / skip multiple gears if needed (if programmed as such). Efficiency.
My first experience with a CVT was a US Civic HX in 1997. It was a really odd feeling. To me, only Nissan somehow manages to make proper CVTs. Even nissan had issues with thier first run of CVTs in their then new Murano
The other issue with CVTs is the belt drive. Same like chain drive cams in engines, it took some time for manufacturers to find solutions to quieten down the noise. Its getting better but CVTs still has some way to go.
As for heavy duty CVTs, they don’t necessary have the same belt/pulley type construction as our car types. There are many types of CVT. You can have cone gear type that can handle a lot more torque then our car based belt type.
Not all “CVTs” are alike.
But honestly, in a start-stop traffic of Asia coupled with the long and ever lasting mega-highways….would we prefer a DSG or a CVT, it can be arguable in Europe that a DSG is better, but I felt it is abit overengineered for normal usaged. CVTs are odd, hack even I hate them, but for a majority of the non-enthusiast, they preffered that smooth supple drive of belt-tranny.
I did recall my uncle saying that Toyota had an almost DSG like reliability issue with early CVTs, and took years to solve them. DSG as of now still have years to go and since VW wet-clutch is coming and claim to be more reliable, I’ll just wait and give it some years before I completely trust it. As of now, my feeling towards DSG is that they are truly over-engineered, good in hypermachine like the Veyron and Poesche 911 GT3, but in a normal city going Golf?
PS: I havn’t known there are many types of CVT, but I’ll give it a look. And this is why I enjoy commenting in Paultan, you never know what additional knowledge you’ll find…..cheers.
Not sure how many gears is really enough…or fuel efficent for a car…
btw, can anyone can advise me: how come EV’s can do with just 1 gear ratio? Wouldn’t 2 or more gears be much better than?
I’m a pro but in my opinion, that’s because EVs basically use electric motors, and electric motors can be spinning continuously with one speed only, unlike our engine.
Think ceiling fan. It can stay in one certain speed forever if you want it, but changing the speed to 5 (which is max) will make it spin at full speed.
Since we want our cars to be as powerful as possible at all times, so just use one gear to make the motor spin at its top speed from 0rpm lah..hehe
I’m NOT a pro*
Sorry for the typo mistake!
More accurately, electric motors make peak torque at 0 rpm. Therefore unlike an ICE, you do not need the gearbox to help spin it to the desired RPM to make power.
Gears (on electric cars, if any) are for low speed torque multiplication (making do with smaller, lower powered electric motors) or higher top speed.
A good anecdote would be if you move on 4th or 5th (overdrive), which would be close to 1:1 direct drive ratio.
and ICE makes very little torque off idle. and will not have enough torque to move the car, hence needing the reduction gear of 1st and 2nd to properly move off the line.
An equivalent (120hp in a normal sedan) electric motor would make supercar levels of torque at 0 rpm so it doesn’t “need” the reduction gear and can operate from 1:1 depending on load, although it will benefit from it.
I’ve owned a Jetta Mk V, no problems. Now Sharan and Polo TSi. Both no problems after 3 years. Received notice to replace mechatronic. Replaced and still no problems. My sister’s Beetle, no problems. Brother’s Scirocco, no problems. These are just my experiences.
Are you a VW salesman? Just come over my house yard and I show you my reliable Toyotas!
Toyota? This is German cars club gtfo
Toyota lagi worse
i think some stupid ppl trying to act very smart that they can win volkswagen
eh who are you , jealous then say jealous lah dont so much pattern go and assume ppl is a salesman, plus you dont even have a volkswagen arccording to your stupidity
Im sorry
So obvious he is a VW salesman. Now they are all panic maximum cause the whole world knows about DSG.
One of the main problems of dct is the jerkiness during low speed because the gearbox is hunting for gears. Good luck with the 10 speed.
Same with all other dual clutch gearboxes. The issue is not so much hunting for gears but that the electronically controlled clutch is just not as smooth as what you can achieve with your left foot.
DCT with torque converters will be much smoother. Less of the on/off computer actuation.
4speed autos r not that efficient specially on long highway runs,i think 5-6 speeds are more that u will ever need no matter what application, anything more than that is jus a marketing gimmick n a selling point for the manufacturer
In third world countries(like ours),how many speeds nobody cares,as long as its auto(dats y a vious can get away with it for so long)in europe n US who have slightly beter educated n more knowledgeable audiences,these things do matter,thats y i think this 10 speed is catered for thm primarily, i read somewhere that vw developing their dsg’s actually cost more than their engines…
A lot of people can’t drive manual nowadays…It is so sad that corolla/civic/lancer in Malaysia doesn’t come with manual trans
Gearbox controller is spoiled by choices and will be as indecisive as a woman. Imagine u trying to pace up and your gearbox is still trying to decide..
(sorry fo4 being sexiest but woman is also the best muktitasker).
Please la.. I beg you.. stop producing DSG !!
Because you don’t have money to buy a Volkswagen , haters gonna hate
Because you don’t have money to buy a Volkswagen , haters gonna hate
Because you don’t have money to buy a Volkswagen , haters gonna hate , cheapskate
Because you poor
i agree on that
Wow… My old kancil was only 3 speed auto
10 speed DSG. Great engineering! But no more VAG cars for me. NEVER!
cannot fix the 7speed dsg, come out with 10 speed.. hmm..
4 to 8 speed automatic gearbox is enough to me
Stayed away from Dry Clutch.
If Wet Clutch still ok a bit lah.
I wonder my 48K km Golf R 2013 will have this DSG problem or not. So far no problem, belasah maximum main dengan macam macam kereta at hiway-kampung way. But one thing after I read all your gentelmen comment, my car seldom stuck in a traffic jam. born in KL and I will avoin stuck in it. Well if you ask me I dont have this DSG problem so far lah. Still bawak mcm lembu. yes I own a Camry, 2.0e 2008. No major prob (drive shaft and dash board issue only) Preve 2012 no problem too. Isuzu Dmax very good. Merc W204 40k k/m also no problem. Maybe my luck or maybe VW other then DSG wet clutch is not ment for our weather. Means only 2.0cc and above with wet clutch has no issue? Or I am waiting for my turn….
Most if the comments posted do not make sense. Have it not occurred to you guys that the 7 speed DSG is flawed? Hence, VW has now come out with a new gearbox altogether. It would be best to avoid buying current VW cars in Malaysia equipped with the ‘old’ 7 speed DSG box, until the new 10 speed box ( or call it whatever name you want) becomes available.
Just because my VWs have no problems doesn’t make me a salesman. Btw, since when salesmen drive 270k Sharan?
i know right these stupid ppl are jealous of you , and trying to make friends with you! jealousy…
I always think malaysian are becoming more and more intelligent and more knowlegdeable. But its not.. PEOPLE, yeah U!!! If u don’t own a VW or u CANT afford one, SHUT UP!, u don’t have RIGHTS to complaint about their cars. And even IF u DO so… If u think the VWs are that bad, den DON BUY IT! TYPICAL MALAYSIANS!
I know right
I own a vw 1.4 tsi mk6 (7speed DSG)Now 2yrs (50K km)
I use daily for work in KL and outstations every months.So far never let me down.Yeah a lot of other Japanese cars(Honda- City,Jazz,CRZ.Nissan-Slyphy,Latio,Almari…oops Almera) Korean (Cerato,K5,Rio)and Protons tailgate and tried making fun with VW 1.4TSI….but all ended,inhaling vw’s exhaust smoke….(Not promoting or advertising for vw…Just sharing facts)