Tesla Motors’ EV patents can now be used by anyone

Tesla Model S-06

In what it claims is a move done “in the spirit of the open source movement”, Tesla Motors has announced that it will open up its electric vehicle patents to be used by anyone, including other car manufacturers. CEO Elon Musk said that the company “will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use our technology”.

The outspoken head honcho claimed that while patents were useful a long time ago, they were now mainly used to “stifle progress, entrench the positions of giant corporations and enrich those in the legal profession”, and that receiving a patent simply meant that “you bought a lottery ticket to a lawsuit”.

“Tesla Motors was created to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport. If we clear a path to the creation of compelling electric vehicles, but then lay intellectual property landmines behind us to inhibit others, we are acting in a manner contrary to that goal,” he said.

Musk added that while Tesla originally obtained the patents out of fear that other manufacturers would copy its technology and muscle them out of the competition with their wealth of manufacturing, sales and marketing resources, the reality is that electric vehicle and other zero-emissions programmes from major manufacturers are small to non-existent.

Tesla_Model_X_06

“Given that annual new vehicle production is approaching 100 million per year and the global fleet is approximately 2 billion cars, it is impossible for Tesla to build electric cars fast enough to address the carbon crisis,” said Musk. “Our true competition is not the small trickle of non-Tesla electric cars being produced, but rather the enormous flood of gasoline cars pouring out of the world’s factories every day.

“Technology leadership is not defined by patents, but rather by the ability of a company to attract and motivate the world’s most talented engineers. We believe that applying the open source philosophy to our patents will strengthen rather than diminish Tesla’s position in this regard.”

Tesla currently provides electric motor and battery technology to Toyota and Daimler, the latter holding a 10% stake in the electric vehicle manufacturer.

Could it be possible for Malaysian car manufacturers like Proton or Perodua to use these EV patents to produce a modern range of high performance electric cars?

Tesla Model S

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Jonathan Lee

After trying to pursue a career in product design, Jonathan Lee decided to make the sideways jump into the world of car journalism instead. He therefore appreciates the aesthetic appeal of a car, but for him, the driving experience is still second to none.

 

Comments

  • Good guy Tesla (THUMBS UP)

    Listen up Proton and Perodua…Use this chance to produce a budget city EV car that can travel up to 300km per charge, Family EV Sedan/MPV and REAR WHEEL DRIVE COUPE EV THAT CAN ACCELERATE FROM 0-100 in around 7 SECOND WOULD DO!!!

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 75 Thumb down 1
    • Sunriver on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:22 pm

      Bravo Tesla….Bravo. You are the Man!!

      So P1, apa lagi tunggu-tunggu, go la and show us of how good you really are.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 26 Thumb down 1
      • Jimmy on Jun 13, 2014 at 5:07 pm

        Lotus ride and handling + 5-sec century sprint from Tesla’s technology = RM240k, from Tun-Mah.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 4
        • pondan on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:54 pm

          Lotus ride handling agree.

          5sec century sprint. .. may be for the 1st 3mths… later, the car will rattles will mad till no balls to sprint in 5sec.

          240k from tun mahai. In my dream.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 13
      • Same L0r on Jun 13, 2014 at 6:00 pm

        Provided Proton could handle the technology, it is not 100% R&D free. Proton still need to research how to use the patent… It is a patent only, not car model blueprint.

        Back to BASIC question: If Proton couldn’t even produce reliable petrol car after 30 years, what could you expect on its EVs or hybrids?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 8
        • Celicazz on Jun 13, 2014 at 10:59 pm

          They already stepped in EV world with those Exoras and Sagas, why do you think they can’t make it?

          We know some of their cars aren’t of the best qualities, but, does tesla’s?

          What about those cases of Teslas caught fire in the US?

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 5
          • Same L0r on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:43 pm

            The one caught fire in the US is mass production car while the Exoras and Sagas, just concept car. Does Proton has any EV car in mass production?

            If Proton considered “stepped into EV world” just because that a few EV concept car, tomorrow I gonna have my own brand of EV car powered by Energizer rechargeable battery and Tamiya motor.

            Proton can’t even clear the Preve/Suprima S stock, don’t think too much lar!

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 9
          • pondan on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:50 pm

            Those that caught fire, the cause is found and rectified. Tesla make the initiatives to fix all with titanium protective plat under the battery pack as a responsible car manufacturer.

            My preve is rattling like no tomorrow in less than 3mths. Tried fixing for the last 2 years and still farking rattles. Every 3mths, new source of rattles came up.

            Even proton is given a magic wand, they will come up with crap… every time.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 8
          • Same L0r on Jun 15, 2014 at 1:28 am

            I understand you totally!!

            Most of Malaysian drivers are Proton victim, thus why people willing to buy Vios rather than Preve, coz Proton really hopeless.

            Yet Proton fanboys keep on dreaming the preve is the best car in the world. Pity the blinds.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2
          • Obviously (Member) on Jun 15, 2014 at 5:56 am

            The Tesla cars caught fire due to hitting pieces of debris on their highway that punctured the battery mounted in the floor. They estimated that the force of impact was about 1 ton of force. They’re already addressed the issue, like another commenter pointed out, by reinforcing the battery again with a titanium plate.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
        • trollolo on Jun 15, 2014 at 1:47 pm

          no need to do R&D… just buy few tesla cars and copy like china do….

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0
    • Will see in the next audit report: Proton used 5 billion to buy Tesla patents…

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 32 Thumb down 4
    • kzm (Member) on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:56 pm

      take that Apple n Samsung…

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 1
    • klguy on Jun 14, 2014 at 7:14 am

      maybe perodua but not proton. its ego is just too high

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4
    • Sagia on Jun 14, 2014 at 9:12 am

      Or combined it with diesel generator to make it semi hyrid car (diesel generator only charging battery)

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
    • nothing in this world is free. the reason why they are freeing their EV patent is because tesla has a bigger project in hand (ada udang sebalik batu). their supercharger station has way more growth potential than their cars and with more than 100++ stations worldwide and double that coming the next few years you can bet they are banking on the fact that if more manufacturer are developing full EVs more investors will be coming with their wallets

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0
      • Sunriver on Jun 15, 2014 at 1:11 pm

        Yeah, I’ve heard about it and saw a live streaming (from Tesla Website)of the concept. Actually it is not a supercharging station but a complete battery replacement facility, fully automated and it can change a fresh new batt pack in less of a time it takes to fill-up a normal petrol car.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
  • BRACE YOURSELF…PERFORMANCE EV IS COMING!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0
    • pondan on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:46 pm

      Ya ya.. coming to our neighbouring countries… not in malaysia.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 3
  • Guan Yin Maa on Jun 13, 2014 at 3:39 pm

    Proton would be extremely happy. DR M now comfirm celebrating. Save up all the cost of R & D.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 2
    • But EVs are expensive to produce. There’s a chance they won’t adopt the technology.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0
      • If only our currency is stronger…

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2
      • Guan Yin Maa on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:56 pm

        Well. Still cheaper without research cost. Electric car are more easy to made compared to hybrid. The problem is we dont have the supplier in malaysia for battery and inverter .

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
    • So this is what the next 120k luxury Proton will be powered with hey

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
      • pondan on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:42 pm

        Power by this… nah..

        Fitted with body kit with the perception that power this, is more like it.

        After all, proton can talk talk talk only… all empty talk.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3
    • BLUR SOTONG on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:31 pm

      Proton can close shop liao la , with the shared Ev patents, Toyota , Honda , Nissan and Korean Duo of Hyundai and Kia will flood and thrash Proton la . Even with share or concessions patent we can’t produce a decent car lo. So Proton keep dreaming to be a Major player in the Automotive industry la . No need balik kampung, cos Malaysia is already a Kampung

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 11
    • pondan on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:45 pm

      Bro bro wake up wake up. Dun dream.
      Whatever happened, Dr. Moron will have excuses as usual. Either, it’s isreal technology that is haram to adopt la, malaysian mentality not ready foe this technology la, or whatever shit that may come out from his shit mouth.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 6
  • Leon Loke on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:17 pm

    Proton have spend so much money to invest in R&D for EEV yet, what ever they are doing nnow seems to be obselete when Tesla’s EV can clocked 500km on a single charge. Tesla can sell the plateform to any manufafturer and they can produce the EV of their own. Tesla is a gift to the world and put an end to doubts about EV must be slow and EV don’t have the range. Tesla proves to the world that their car can clocked 0-100 in less than 5 sec and have a range of 500km.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0
    • pondan on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:39 pm

      Ai ya… those r&d is wayang kulit. Instead, it’s holiday trips for the group.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3
      • Toyota in bolehland still uses 4 speeder gearbox and ancient engine. It’s more obsolete.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1
  • matkool on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:31 pm

    Good guy Tesla. We need more company like this who concerns about environment and not just damn profit!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0
    • Jimmy on Jun 13, 2014 at 5:11 pm

      Yes, you are right. They do care about profit. They deserve it if their objectives come true.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
  • mustafa on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:31 pm

    three cheers Mr. Elon Musk… I just hope those people/company that improves on the TESLA technology will not patent their ‘improved’ technology.

    Maybe this is a slap in the face of apple and samsung…hahaha

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0
    • pondan on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:38 pm

      Like the slapping part. ***proton also slapped, for being dumb***

      Tesla a young company giving free patent while proton cakap naik harga. **ini lah mentality jaguh kampung** masih kat kampung lagak ayam.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5
      • pondanbodo on Jun 14, 2014 at 2:17 am

        If like that p2 also slapped, for being dumb. State-of-art engine 1KR-FE konon but still Euro IV compliant while CFE is already Euro V loooooonnnnnnggggg ago.And air resonator? Duh, that’s copied ciplak IAFM thingy.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1
  • tikus on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:33 pm

    It’s no the technology issue that Proton is facing,It’s the human resources issue. Mitsubishi has already transfer technology from 1st Gen Saga and Wira to proton and how come this two car still like shit.Full of problem.My Wira start oil leak at 40K Km. I dont think original Mitsubishi Lancer oil leak at 40K km. What technology adaptation also no help if the production and the worker is like shit.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 4
    • BLUR SOTONG on Jun 13, 2014 at 5:22 pm

      Hi tikus, I driven a Proton aka Lotus engineered machine, so where is the Famed and famous Lotus technology and handling – NONE , you get absolutely much body roll and understeer from a slight corner.
      Less than 40k mileage, radiator fan spoiled, oil leakage . Whereas Mitsubishi had none of those problems at 40k mileage, perhaps Proton learnt from a lousy teacher – Sarcasm

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 4
      • Celicazz on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:03 pm

        Are you sure the 2009 batches of Mitsubishi Lancers doesn’t have CVT overheating issues, NVH issues and manyyyyyy more issues as what Protons have of their early batches of new models?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
      • gemen on Jun 14, 2014 at 2:20 am

        You driving license must be kopi terbang one. Lotus handling all people know already.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2
    • IdealTech on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:33 pm

      Well ur name speaks, coz u drive like “tikus” n as noisy as “tikus” n I bet u dont work like “tikus” should n thus u r frustrated coz stucked in a Wira for quite a long time..there u go, I just make a storyline of ur life :)

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2
      • tikus on Jun 14, 2014 at 12:07 pm

        Well Idealtech,I sold me shity wira long time ago and I wont buy any proton product any more.proton shity product is well know and nothing to do with my login name.From your comment you are a proton fanboy cant differentiate a login name and a complain.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
  • Shawn on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:33 pm

    Good guy tesla motors!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
  • Painter on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:36 pm

    Love this guy already. Imagine what would happen to books if John Gutenberg patented his typewriter technology forever.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
  • Painter on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:38 pm

    Proton can work on their EMAS concept. It doesn’t have to be sold in Malaysia market, but can be tried out in Europe where the market is more receptive to EV technology.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0
    • mim (Member) on Jun 14, 2014 at 12:00 am

      I guess many ppl still don’t know that Proton no longer has the rights to Proton EMAS design (Proton didn’t buy the design yet, the design was Italdesign’s but was made with Proton’s brand and some help from both Proton and Lotus)

      VW bought Italdesign shortly after EMAS was unveiled, and EMAS became the VW Up! that we see today. I guess this is the reason why EMAS-based GSC (and EV version) that supposed to come out in 2012 had to be cancelled, and replaced with Mirage-based GSC, which is also cancelled (bcos Mitsu deal over) and replaced with GSC that we saw today.

      I think it is known that Proton is capable of developing a proper EV and REEV system (Proton Exora REEV, Saga EV, EMAS) so Proton should be able to utilize Elon’s patent to improve them.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1
      • kokatoa on Jun 14, 2014 at 2:02 am

        But the Up has got nothing to do with the EMAS. The first concept, looking remarkably similar to the final car, was unveiled in 2007, a full three years before the EMAS and Volkswagen’s acquisition of Italdesign, and was designed by Volkswagen’s own in-house design team.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • Hasan on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:40 pm

    Correction. Perodua is not a malaysian car manufacturer, but rather a big scam telling ppl they manufacturr cars. They just assemble cars.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 2
  • Nafiri on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:41 pm

    Best news ive heard all day! EVs are the future, hopefully P1 and P2 will answer to the challenge of a cleaner and more sustainable transportation system. Even tho its expensive to produce, gotta start somewhere eh?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
    • pondan on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:34 pm

      As long as we have our beloved gov, they will intervine, mess around here and there, go for free ride (rombongan sambil belajar) … in the end, it will price to the roof for low quality product and blame malaysian not supporting.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1
  • Copy Cat on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:45 pm

    Gooo for it Proton!…Dont be shy.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
    • pondan on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:31 pm

      Proton never shy. The skin on the face is so thick that it’s bullet and bomb proof.

      What proton need is a golden tongkat. Without tongkat, can’t even get out of bed cuz it’s bloody obese and get heart attacks.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2
      • Even other auto makers like Holden and Ford got sort of tongkat.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
        • pondan on Jun 14, 2014 at 6:30 pm

          Looks at then. Both holden and ford in australia will mampus in 1 to 2 years time cuz it’s nit profitable after all the tongkat money.

          Proton tongkat is getting stronger and bigger even nit delivering results. Mentality kampung is here to stay for now and ever.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
  • pondan on Jun 13, 2014 at 5:02 pm

    that’s the man!!

    can talk and delivery. Not some doctor moron.. and proton.. juz talk talk talk… no action but instead ask for more tongkat and naik harga.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2
  • AVH (Member) on Jun 13, 2014 at 5:08 pm

    Initially, it sounds like a fairy tale story, Fairy godmother Tesla comes giving cindeproton an advance EV patent so that it could woo Prince Public. Prince public takes a liking on cindeproton and move away from the Evil Japanecient and Cindeproton and prince public lives happily ever after. The End.

    Of course it’s never ever this simple. What Tesla is giving is a patent, even if proton gets it…….where are they going to get the resources and the facility to built such technology. Let’s say we get the approval from the UN to built a nuclear powered submarine, but we do not have the engineers, scientist and facility to commit it. As much as I like it, unless proton does partner those pioneers in EV cars, and get supplies of battery and electric motor, we won’t be seeing Proton badged car with tesla like performance any time soon.

    However, it turns out to be worse for proton as those who do have the resources and technology to commit with Tesla’s patent starts selling their own variant of tesla cars in Boleh land, it’s going to be bad news for proton and with petrol price looking toward uphill climb in the horizon, proton and it’s higher than average FC is going to hurt.

    Leaving aside proton for now, I do respect what tesla is doing. Loosening and sharing EV tech could lead to standardize EV parts like charging station and such. Tesla’s supercharging station could be available for more models of car and same goes for battery. Instead of each model having their own type and form of battery, standardize batteries could lead for an easier sourcing and replacement. Honestly Beavo Tesla……and Elon Munsk who is the next Henry Ford or Soichiro Honda, eccentric and passionate people like him is healthy for tr industry.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2
    • tokmoh (Member) on Jun 14, 2014 at 2:01 am

      A Times article once mentioned a study of how even when patents expire, the adopters are on average not even 1/3rd as effective as the original patent holders.

      The thing about expired/open source patent is… it only makes other LEGALLY able to adopt it. What they didn’t share is manufacturing secret to make their products good/high quality.

      So yeah, proton can adopt EV, but if they use inferior raw materials, with lousy QC on manufacturing line, it will still be shit.

      That being said, Elon Musk have to be commended for removing the barrier in the first place. From here on, LET THE RACE BEGINS!

      May the best man wins, and Tesla, having invested longer and harder than others, have the first mover advantage for now. Best of all, him laying the foundation for a very stiff competition means consumers will be the biggest winner.

      Dayum, I want a Tesla. Dayum dayuuum DAYYUUUUUUM

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
  • Kangkung on Jun 13, 2014 at 5:15 pm

    TESLA, you are the man! You will change the world.
    Open minded keep you move towards higher achievement!

    You are greater than apple!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
  • Semi-Value (Member) on Jun 13, 2014 at 5:19 pm

    any news of tesla coming here?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
  • shawal on Jun 13, 2014 at 6:11 pm

    Elon musk…

    Nikola tesla / howard hughes…. Of our time….

    Brilliant man..

    What is DRB (parent company of proton) is waiting for..?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
    • pondan on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:28 pm

      Patents didn’t come with a spoon and someone to feed. More importantly, tongkat is not in the bundle. Proton can’t walk without tongkat.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4
  • Sam's Best Friend on Jun 13, 2014 at 6:14 pm

    Disruptive innovation in the car industry is over due.

    OMG!!!!!!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
  • can,just use the current car and change proton logo on it

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • EnergyAnalyst on Jun 13, 2014 at 6:28 pm

    free lunch with no strings attached?

    Sounds too good to be true?

    This guy deserve a Noble Price!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
  • jerung on Jun 13, 2014 at 10:33 pm

    Decades ago, Volvo released their three-point seat belt patent so that any car manufacturer can use their invention. To Volvo, saving human lives was more valuable than all the money they could make from holding on to the technology.

    What Elon Muskon has done is just as saintly. It really lowers the barrier to adopt EV technology….

    This Elon Musk not only owns Tesla, but also heads SolarCity (solar power generation for residential houses), SpaceX (space tourism) etc. This dude is more impressive than Iron Man’s Tony Stark..!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 0
  • bn_bodo on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:13 pm

    Elon Musk should receive a nobel prize

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
  • pondan on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:26 pm

    Open source patents to proton also useless. Bunch of idiots and deadwood will somehow make rubbish out of it instead a decent car. Aspired to be the vw (crap) quality.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4
  • U give it to proton also not that they know what to do with it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2
  • Spirior on Jun 14, 2014 at 9:02 am

    It’s about time, Tesla is where they are now thanks to the massive tongkat the US of A people give to them through various grants and tax breaks. It is the very least that they can do – and it is for their own good as well as the challenge is really to break the dominance of the GM/Ford/Chrysler. The rest of the EV players (ZAP/Fisker/Detroit Electric) are still nowhere near.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
  • Motorhead (Member) on Jun 14, 2014 at 10:36 am

    Keep Protong aside.. making lost 820 millions. . In few months they ll short of cash to pay staff’s salary. Just wait end of the year.

    5S.. baru pny.. pinjam sikit frm Same lor..

    Sendiri cakap, Sendiri syok, Sendiri rosak, Sales carnivals, Sendiri korek kubur..

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3
  • hahaha on Jun 14, 2014 at 6:05 pm

    with this we can save fuel for other more important uses…give tesla a noble prize =)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
  • niterunner99 on Jun 15, 2014 at 11:28 pm

    even if Proton make this car exactly the same…this EV is not going to be cheap as the materials used are of certain quality.
    so will you buy a Proton EV at RM$300k??

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2
  • ayamitik on Jun 16, 2014 at 11:56 am

    lot of RBA aka DAP supporter which have plenty of time condemning proton. At least they have their own eV and REEV prototype long time already.

    where is perodua. yuhuuu. Anyone? EV are non existence in perodua. 1kr state of the art and most advanced in the world still running on gasoline.

    while daihatsu have no plan in building ev..that mean our most beloved perodua (the rebagder) will never have anything related to ev. Hail the oil burner . hail perodua.

    give it a break tentera kacang merah. have a kit kat.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
 

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