What do you do when life gives you lemons? You should be able to rely on some lemon-aid, some consumer groups opine.
The Malaysian Association of Standards Users (Standards Users) and the Federation of Malaysian Consumers Associations (FOMCA) have called on the government to establish “lemon laws” to further protect consumers in cases of defective goods at time of purchase, Bernama reports.
“Lemon” is a colloquial term for a vehicle, usually new, that is found to be flawed or defective shortly after purchase. Lemon laws are in place in many countries, including Singapore, Australia, the Philippines, China, Japan, South Korea and the US.
“According to lemon laws, should a consumer fulfil the conditions set, they are eligible to obtain fair compensation for the purchase of faulty goods or items which do not function as they should,” Standards Users CEO Ratna Devi Nadarajan said, adding that the association has received many consumer complaints regarding uncertain warranty in the purchase of goods, especially electrical goods and vehicles.
“Among the complaints we received included consumers who could not obtain commensurating compensation after buying faulty items, not given clear information on warranty as well as sellers’ outright refusal to compensate based on unreasonable excuses.”
The New Straits Times reported in June that the National Consumer Complaints Centre (NCCC) received nearly 5,000 complaints last year against the auto industry. The monetary value of the complaints totalled RM22.2 million (RM12.7 million more than in 2012), with a big number of complaints involving breakdowns and malfunctions of newly-bought cars and poor after-sales service.
“Complainants lamented that companies were merely interested in making profits and made empty promises until the point of sale,” NCCC legal and dispute resolution manager Santhosh Kannan told the daily at the time, adding that some of the common gripes included stalling vehicles, exploding tyres and malfunctioning ABS, gearboxes and power windows.
Ratna Devi clarified to The Malaysian Insider that under lemon laws, if a consumer can prove the defect is already present when the item is purchased, he or she is entitled to replacement, refund and price reductions of the item in question.
“At the moment, vague warranty clauses do not give sufficient protection to our vehicle buyers,” she told TMI, adding that currently, the onus is on consumers to prove the vehicle is faulty at the time of purchase. “If the Lemon law is in place, the burden will be shifted to manufacturers and their agents,” she said to the publication.
“Lemon laws can also be applied to the electrical and electronic sector as well as furniture where consumers can obtain fair compensations. If the seller does not give the appropriate compensation to the consumer, they can be fined,” she added.
Ratna Devi, who is also NCCC director, told TMI that the NCCC has met with a few officials to discuss the implementation of lemon laws, but the response so far has been lukewarm.
“But we will continue to push for the implementation of the law, be it as a separate legislation or something that works alongside all existing laws concerning consumers,” TMI quoted her as saying.
Standards Users, FOMCA and the NCCC are conducting a seminar today on the principles of lemon laws to discuss the issue at length.
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Open letter to MITI, MAI, MAA, consumers NGO in general:
Suggestions to protect the car buyers’ right and revisions for car excise duty policy.
For far too long, the car buyers in Malaysia has been taken for granted, short-changed and felt cheated by the ridiculously high car taxes and the laid-back attitude by most of the car makers. Government, especially through MITI, Finance ministry and Bank Negara should put stop to this nonsense and here’s how to do it:
1. Impose minimum 10-Years Car Warranty with unlimited mileage and no question asked policy.
2. Impose minimum 10-Years free car service (inclusive of parts and labour charges with unlimited mileage and no question asked policy)
3. Impose minimum car safety features namely: 6 SRS airbags (dual front, side curtains both sides), ABS with EBD, Traction Control, ISOFIX and 5 Star safety ratings ASEAN NCAP.
Shall any features missing (point 1 to 3), the car deemed unfit and illegal for sale until further improvements made.
4. Revise car excise duty according to the car’s fuel efficiency and CO2 (carbon dioxide) level for cars below 1,800cc. Use the current excise duty rate 75% as the cut-off point. Example:
10km/Liter and below = Penalty of extra 50% car excise duty (Eg. 50+75 = 125% excise duty)
11-16km/Liter = Discount of 10 % car excise duty (Eg. 75-10 = 65% excise duty)
16-20km/Liter = Discount of 15 % car excise duty (Eg. 75-15 = 50% excise duty)
20km/Liter and above = Discount of 50% car excise duty (Eg. 75-50 = 25% excise duty)
On top of that above rate, the CO2 level will also carry extra discounts or penalties. Example:
100 grammes CO2/100km travelled or below = Discount of 20% car excise duty (on top of fuel efficiency rate)
101-150 grammes CO2/100km travelled = Discount of 10% car excise duty (on top of fuel efficiency rate)
150-200 grammes CO2/100km travelled = Penalty of extra 30% car excise duty (on top of fuel efficiency rate)
200 grammes Co2/100km travelled and above = Penalty of extra 50% car excise duty (on top of fuel efficiency rate)
5. A different set of car excise for fully electric car versus hybrid car. As hybrid cars still emitting CO2 and consuming petrol, its excise duty should follow the point No.4 as per normal engine car. However, the excise duty rate for fully electric cars should be based on the battery mileage range per single charge (but still using 75% rate as cut-off point). Example:
0-100km mileage range = Discount of 30% car excise duty (eg. 75-20 = 50% excise duty)
100-200km mileage range = Discount of 40% car excise duty (eg. 75-40 = 35% excise duty)
200-500km = Discount of 50% car excise duty (eg. 75-50 = 25% excise duty)
500km and above = Zero car excise duty
(The reasons behind it is that as battery technology advances over time, the electric car with the most mileage should be rewarded with more tax discounts)
6. Standardised, flat rate for car loan interest charges regardless the car is local or foreign brands. No more discrimination.
7. Car loan interest charges only applied for ex-factory zero duty car price while the excise duty amount payable rendered interest-free in order to avoid being ‘double-taxed’ by banks and thus reducing overall car financing cost to car buyers. Currently banks are profiting such easy money on car loans being factored twice which is morally wrong but totally legal.
The direct impacts and benefits from the above suggestions if implemented:
a) Car makers will promote more fuel efficient, cleaner engine, better safety specs cars to car buyers at much more level playing field. It is also in line with the EEV policy that promotes such vehicles. Ultimately, cars with zero emission and best mileage rightfully should enjoy more discounts or zero excise duty rate.
b) At least 10 years of worry free for car buyers in terms of car warranty claims and servicing. Car makers will be forced to produce better quality cars to reduce any cost of warranty claims.
c) Banks can no longer profiting easy money on ‘double taxed’ car loans. Which means more savings for car buyers and help reduce the household debts level. It is possible also to use that extra disposable income for buying a house at much early stage of life and lead to earlier house ownership as well.
d) As more and more cleaner and fuel efficient cars being promoted at more competitive prices, the government can slowly reduce fuel subsidy costs and move closer to introduce open market price for petrol. The petrol price itself eventually become the control mechanism (pay as you use basis) and buying fuel efficient cars can only become the most logical thing to do!
e) Best of all, government still continue to collect car excise duties but with much fairer and more progressive tax policy. It is only fair to car buyers for paying car taxes at such level to get more value added cars. It is simply a win-win situation to all of us.
Conclusion:
Government should protect the rights of car buyers more than just listening to the car industry players that have been profiting such an obscene amount of money from the car buyers. Such nonsense must end once and for all.
Yours truly,
Justice For Car Buyers
bro justice, thank you for the nice article, i feel your pain and anger towards our car industry.
I like the suggestions, and love the way you express it out.
Not to throw you a bucket of ice water. You need to realise and do something first before all those nice things you write can ever happen.
Get rid of the crony company. else just make more money and get a Toyota for a piece of mind.
Ya Japanese car has lemon too, but as you know, lemons are everywhere. The biggest lemon is still in Malaysia. practically almost every generation of the past there are a lot of lemons made in Shah Alam and Tanjung Malim, lemons can be orange if the QC and QA and suppliers and those responsible be more human.
Now you know why people is willing to pay a bit more for Toyota, even the model is with lower/older specs.
You get a Toyota, you get problem free.
Those who claim Proton has improved the build quality especially the power window, I would like to tell them “Dream On”!
My problems and nightmaire started when I got my brand new toyota altis. Problematic car rattling non stop and gear box always jerking in traffic jam.
Stupid piece of junkyard car. I am so stupid to listen to Same L0rrr’s garbage.
And when i fetch people they ask me why is my car rattling and jerking like that? Is it a second hand car? I feel so ashamed to tell them its a new car less than 1 year old. Paid premium for so called toyota quality. Now i only can suffer in silence as i would lose almost 40k if i trade in my car now.
Toyota is just a premium lemon. Lemons are everywhere.
It is really easy to take Proton story and change the model name to Altis.
And even it is Altis, you can always solve it at our SC for free. This is the sales agent problem, not the model. I never have customer complain on their Altis so many years. Some even asking me where to get second hand cheap Altis, because it is good and has highest RV in the market.
Just drive in any SC and get it solved.
You’re wrong. In C-segment, Honda civic has the highest RV. Altis is no where near at all. You can get 2004 altis for only 25k. While a 2006 civic is still going for 58k.
Agreed!
I wholly support these lemon laws actually, and had the first hand experience of dealing with a lemon myself.
When I had my car, within less than a year, it was already having engine trouble, from the 5000km service itself. Now, we all know that for a brand new car, with such low mileage, it is insane for the car’s idle timing to go way off until the car stalls, or the car misfires and loses power very frequently. The problem initially was “not found” according to the dealer, but after I forced them to come with me for a drive, with the dealer driving it, they noticed the issue and admitted that something was terribly wrong. From not keeping to the delivery date they set, to returning me a faulty car, with no compensation or replacement for the total of 3 months or so I didn’t have a car, I only managed to finally secure a loan vehicle from them once I wrote in to the parent company in Malaysia and threatening the dealer with legal action.
Today, after all the hell, the car works fine, but I can tell you, I will never ever buy from that brand, ever again. I’ve been lucky to live with a wide range of brands, but by far, this had to be the worst experience, good car, lousy aftersales.
And no, it was not a VW, or a Proton. Heck it was not even as expensive as a basic Jazz, probably that’s why they were not bothered. And on a side note, my ex-Proton didn’t give me that much trouble than this.
Demanding carmakers to provide 10 years free maintenance will guarantee that car prices will be jacked up to unreasonable levels. There’s no such thing as a free lunch, as such the “free maintenance” will be prepaid into the car price.
Similarly a no-questions asked warranty will also be reflected in the price. Why should carmakers bore the brunt of damage due to wear & tear or vehicle misuse? If you want it, you’ll pay for it upfront which is unfair for those who do take good care of their cars & often require no warranty claims.
I agree on the safety aspect though, but your proposal still needs work.
I agree with Mr. Anti-Establishment. Automakers are profit-driven entities, after all. They need the funds to sustain and grow their operations while bettering themselves through R&D to be competitive in an increasingly cutthroat market.
10 years of free service is an absurd demand. A pretty nice demand but absurd, nonetheless. 10-year warranties are more acceptable, in my opinion, but having a no-questions-asked policy will make automakers vulnerable to abuse by unscrupulous consumers, of which there are many.
Finally, empowerment to the consumers! But I highly doubt the gee will implement such law here in MY since they are siphoning off millions from the auto industry and this sort of law will cause dropped profits which cannot be translated back as revenue to the gee …
watch out VGM and NazaKia!!
VW, Peugeot, Audi all have to close shop here if lemon law is implemented
you are forgetting SimeDarbyAutoConnexxion my friend : D
I know a lot of car companies are going to get in trouble…and I think you know who you are…but it can work both ways…maybe its time they stop being patriots and staying true to their customers…dont make buying you’re cars a trauma….its hard earn money and thats what they can afford
If this is implemented, everyone in my company will become millionaire due to 24 months bonus!!
Nonsence, I traded in my old vios for a brand new hyundai elantra. Luckly i managed to find a fool willing to pay 50k for my old junk as used car dealers were only taking 38k at most. Best decision ever in my life. The car has been problem free for 60000km and counting. Wayyy better than rubbish dugong. Cheaper maintenance and more reliable too. Only slightly higher FC since its a bigger and heavier car.
VW disapprove this haha
hahahaha
Then a lot of crony car distributor will come out to demo…Protest for anti-lemon laws.
Nissan and Proton,
Are your CEOs reading this?
The third video refers to previous generation Honda City, not Nissan.
Obviously it was a dugong vios. You blind?
once bought a Toyota vios second batch. all seem to be good but the backlight keep seeping water in because of gasket is not doing it job. Change at service center second time during warranty. After warranty again water seeping in. What do you do? fedup with lousy car technician. Fix it my own, bought those black glue stuff that used to stick car mirror and lay it on the back/tail light. flawless fix.
I can say most of the service center car technician do lousy job or they are ordered to please fix what is teaches and not to do permanent fix, so we get money in or recharge from HQ.
No need to create story. Just admit that you cannot afford to buy Toyota. Stick around with your old Proton, ok loser.
I thought Tiara was accorded the Proton Lemon in Malaysia Book of records, no ?
Or perhaps, it should be maserati since italian always break down and sui kwan.
It is so easy to take a Proton issue and change the model name. For a water seeping Proton, its build quality is considered Above Average already. We have to congrats you instead.
Yup. I got chop left right and centre in UMW service centre. I complain engine vibrate. They change engine mounting and chop me RM800+. Then disc brake squeeking noise send 3 rounds still cannot solve. Bullshit service centres we have here.
Let me guess the cars involved:
1st video – Persona Elegance
2nd video – Ford Focus (jerky gearbox)
3rd video – Honda City (previous generation, squeaks & NVH issue)
I think you’re spot on for the car in the first video.
The second video has 2 lemon cars involved. The first is a wind noise issue…hard to guess which. The second car in question is less of a toughie, but it sounds mostly like a Volkswagen with DSG. The symptoms just sound too familiar. It could be Ford as well since they use a DCT too, but I think it’s more likely to be VW.
Third car looks like the new Honda City, from the instrument cluster.
The lemon car on second video with gear box problem is a VW Touran.
1st car is perodua myvi
2nd car is VW Golf
3rd is toyota vios. (dugong type)
Perodua Myvi is the first car? Kindly look at the steering wheel of the car that is shown. It is clearly a Proton Saga/Persona steering wheel.
3rd car is a Toyota? Kindly look at the steering wheel and realize that only Honda uses such steering wheels. The instrument cluster hints at the model in question.
And the dugong type Vios have their instrument cluster in the center console area, rather than straight ahead of the driver.
That snipped was used to confuse ppl la. So that it is not so obvious. Otherwise those ppl may get trouble you know?
It’s about time for long suffering Malaysians to have this law introduced. The question remains whether our politicians will listen to the voters or the moneyed business lobby group.All these time support has been towards the business community.
Next law to be introduced should be the ASBO.crime and policing act. My vote will go to the politicians who will champion the introduction of these much needed law in this country.
I really hope the Lemon law get gazetted in order to better protect us consumers against irresponsible parties.
I’m on my 3rd car now in 7 years and why did I switch so often? That’s because each car has its own issues which was not rectified within the warranty period so I gave up on the car and switch to another brand which gave me another unique set of problems.
One would normally say a car is mostly defect free until the 5th year but not here in Bolehland where you get the problem the moment you drive out of the showroom!
Yes please.. i am one of those unfortunate who was told to wait another 6 months to get my car back.. and the car is fairly new..
thats why…don buy VAG products
hmmm anything requires inter-agency cooperation such as this will take forever to create. plus, between the agencies nobody will champion/lead this initiative. if agencies sits under different ministry, then lagi susah you know to cooperate.
2x thumbs up !!
government, are you even reading this???
Mr. Vinayaga changed his rims to oversize tyres and sport rims. now want to complain absorber not good. sendiri cari pasal don’t complain la. scroll to 0.49 sec to see his rims and tyres.
Thats right. He probably went to brothers to do a cheap tint and spoiled the power windows too.
I wonder if its Paul who made this Lemon law out?
We malaysian are always suffer with CKD shitty quality products. Being local brand or imported brand.
Rules of this. Live on what we have and don’t complaint. Malaysia always boleh.
I wouldn’t forget the night of 505. Always remind us do not hope for something. Face the fact of current.
i love the direction this is going in, however, we’re all forgetting one thing, once the law is in place, what about enforcement?
VWAG offers a 5 year warranty, however i have been alerted to an incident in which the Golf TSi’s gearbox had been reworked once, changed once, and is still giving issues, however the SC has now refused to honour their 5 year warranty claim although the car is only 3 years old.
I myself have had a continuous nightmare dealing with SDAC due to their constant lack of parts, time and expertise, and to top it off, it really appears that they dont care if i decide to lodge a complaint with a consumer association or file a suit under the consumer tribunal.
they treat us as if one customer can never take on a huge corporation, and we saw that VWAG only caved in to criticisms when a horde of disgruntled customers picketed outside their office.
but can u or me, rally together a few dozen fellas everytime we are dissatisfied with a service centre?
we need a streamlined mode of enforcement.
Well.. What’s the reason behind this whole incident, why that person can’t get the warranty claims? As i know, the warranty is 2+3 while means, 2 years manufacturer warranty and 3 years insurance warranty.. if your car had been driven for 2 years, it definitely is under insurance cover warranty so it will depends on the claims adjuster’s decision,they will decide on it whether you can claim or not. Hope this help~
My wife’s friend, get troubled with her new vios power window just after three month her bought it. Very shame, even Proton don’t faced that Problem nowdays. For me this is an era when KIA & PROTON more reliable than Toyota.
Hi guys,
My 2 years old Nissan Serena Hybrid encounter gearbox problem. Nissan Tan Chong said my car warranty is void because I did not service the car at their
service center. Is it legal for them to act like this ?
I search around for info. and encounter this info.: “Under EU Block Exemption legislation, which has been around for many years now, a manufacturer cannot force a buyer to have their car serviced by their official dealership network, and cannot refuse to honour a new car warranty simply because a car has been serviced elsewhere. ”
I really in despair now as Nissan Tan Chong billed me the gearbox at RM25K.
Please help me as I really clueless and helpless now.
Serves you right, it has clearly stated in the booklet. Go read up.
I bought a proton persona 2017 January model. In October 2017 my car broke down and continued breaking down until now. I took it in for repairs at least 4 times. They claim that they changed my software. Customer care said software only upgraded. I cannot drive in a jam. And KL and pj are full of jams. My car stalled in the middle of traffic in brick fields.
Can you imagine if it did that on a highway?
I’m taking the case to court. We need a precedent to help fellow sufferers.
There’s a tribunal for domestic purchases below 25 k
There should be a tribunal for vehicle purchases up to at least 100 k
I will try my best to get my refund. Dare not drive another similar lemon.