Proton revives deal with Goldstar to produce cars, engines in China – the end of Youngman-Lotus?

youngman L3 1

Proton has signed a three-way agreement with former partner Goldstar Heavy Industrial Co Ltd and authorities in Quanzhou, Fujian Province, China to produce cars and engines in that city, WantChinaTimes.com has reported, citing Shanghai’s China Business News.

Under the agreement, Proton plans to set up a production base for Lotus-badged cars, as well as an R&D centre, in Quanzhou. Once production happens, it could spell the end of Zhejiang-based Youngman-Lotus, which saw its six-year joint-venture deal with the Malaysian carmaker expire in 2012.

This is actually the second time Proton has inked a deal with Goldstar, which primarily produces light buses and machine tools. The two companies began a legal tussle in 2008 that led to the contract’s termination in 2010, by which time Proton was already into the fourth year of its joint-venture with bus- and truck-maker China Youngman Automobile Group.

The joint-venture, called Youngman-Lotus, saw the production of Protons Gen 2 and Persona, as well as Campro engines in China. The line-up included L3 hatch (Gen 2), L3 sedan (Persona), L5 (stretched Gen 2 platform) and T5 (SUV based on Gen 2 platform, not known if ever went on sale).

youngman lotus t5 ext 1

The cars were sold in the People’s Republic under the Youngman-Lotus and Europestar brands. The ‘Lotus’ involvement here is in fact limited to Lotus Engineering, a Proton subsidiary that offered design and technical support to Youngman.

A source told WantChinaTimes.com that although Youngman has said that the technology in its joint-venture came from Lotus, it was not from the British sports car maker and that the Chinese company had not invested nor gained much from the deal.

Car dealers are not optimistic, either. According to the report, some say that even if Youngman-Lotus manages to restart production, its products are no longer competitive in the market, while others say they are no longer willing to work with Youngman-Lotus as the carmaker has failed to settle its debts.

Proton also had a brief dalliance with Beijing-based Hawtai Automobile in 2011 – the original deal was to manufacture the Exora and P3-21A sedan (which of course became the Preve) in China, but this did not progress beyond the MoU stage. More recently, the Malaysian carmaker explored a possible collaboration with Geely.

The real ‘Gold Star’: Youngman-Lotus L3 GT at Auto China 2014

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Jonathan James Tan

While most dream of the future, Jonathan Tan dreams of the past, although he's never been there. Fantasises much too often about cruising down Treacher Road (Jalan Sultan Ismail) in a Triumph Stag that actually works, and hopes this stint here will snap him back to present reality.

 

Comments

  • TROLOLOL on Feb 25, 2015 at 9:22 am

    LOL~!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 34 Thumb down 2
    • Ah Beng (Member) on Feb 25, 2015 at 9:37 am

      Good move by Proton. Proton can success in China since the quality better than chinese cars..

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 53
      • Low Quality Combination on Feb 25, 2015 at 9:49 am

        Proton sign so many deals here and there but still can lose money and beg our money to support the company. For so many years they sign this and that MOU, but still losing money everyday.

        The Management must take a pay cut. Stop flying Business Class. Fly economy class. Company cars also give the directors and CEO Wira to drive.

        I see DRB Hicom Directors all use S class. All should be given Wira. After all, they sucking our money like mad.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 66 Thumb down 4
        • DRB Hicom Directors all use S class…
          The first Mercedes S class assembler outside of Germany….
          The complex assembles about 17,000 units of vehicles annually, with brands ranging from Mercedes….
          This has further entrenched DRB-HICOM’s position as the country’s single largest automotive manufacturer and distributor.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 3
          • Same L0rrrr on Feb 25, 2015 at 11:43 am

            Not surprise. At every corners in the world, no one wants junk.

            It survive because the protection given by the government.

            For a junk car maker to survive, generations of Malaysians suffer.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 32 Thumb down 8
        • Wira? aiyaaaa at least give them Preve..

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 3
      • Ah Beng, Chinese car are now miles better then our 20 over years experience Proton, just take the Qoros for example. Proton are fallen behind on this industry due to never ending policy to protect them… who knows in next 3 years most of us are driving chinese made car just like japs car here in malaysia…

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 42 Thumb down 11
        • TopsyBoXyTurvy on Feb 25, 2015 at 10:57 am

          That’s why he’s called “ah beng”, not having any idea of what happens outside malaysia.
          Proton has been (and is still) trying to go thru “back doors” since a decade ago. This is what happen when the branding, marketing and managenent are WEAK, and unable to sell cars with its own logo.
          Those outdated old horses should leave, i would rather bet on completely new young goats to take over.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 1
        • chinese on Feb 25, 2015 at 11:16 am

          Chinese people support Chinese cars.. Malaysian people also support Chinese and Japs car…

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 26 Thumb down 2
        • NOT just Proton, from what i read, Qoros is also much better than lexus a.k.a toyota..

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 4
        • Tong Kosong on Feb 25, 2015 at 7:53 pm

          Yes..almost every big city have their own brand. Some the design- real product now far more better than Korean (helped by western alliance- they taught korean=manchurian).

          bad copycat start before 2007- now alot better, every month new model with unique design.

          refer to:
          http://www.carnewschina.com/

          Gen-2 were design by Malaysian Chinese.
          Waja – don’t know

          “the look” save proton.

          Saga- the price & mileage save.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
      • I agree..!!

        But there is one small correction. The correct word is “succeed” not “success”. :)

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3
      • ProtonGSC on Feb 25, 2015 at 10:35 am

        Chinese car are X10 better then cronies car !!!

        DrM says Iriz are P1 last hope and still never died after Iriz sales fail.

        Now keep on cronies keep running Bolehland MAI, Rakyat keep on suffer expensive car for the coming 2020.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 7
      • 4G63T DSM on Feb 25, 2015 at 1:15 pm

        Not to explicitly kutuk Proton, but which part of “products are no longer competitive” did you fail to understand?

        the chinese is moving up fast. Much faster than the Koreans ever did. Sure, there have been plenty of copy and paste, but in china, if you are willing to pay good money, you will get good products.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0
    • Proton Suck Our Money on Feb 25, 2015 at 9:38 am

      In the 80s or even in the early 90s, you can get a brand new Nissan 130Y or a Toyota Corolla for RM20,000. Now, the same car is RM139,000.

      In truth, the past 30 years, car prices have come down a lot globally and have NOT gone up due to inflation. It has come down due to economies of scale achieved by car companies and new technology used. This is proven by the fact that you can get a brand new purely Japan made top spec Toyota Camry 2.5 with 10 airbags in the US for US$22,000. That is about RM70,000.

      The normal B segment car like the Almera is sold in the US for US$9,999. (RM35,000). After discounts, the Toyota will be sold about US$18k and the Almera about US$8k in the US.

      Mind you, this is after Toyota and Nissan of the US has made their margin and profits and the US government has collected taxes and duties from Nissan and Toyota. The direct from factory prices is far cheaper. UMW will get the above 2.5 Camry for US$15,000 from their principal in Japan. As our Camry is CKD, the price is even lower than that.

      So, in actual fact, most Malaysians can enjoy cheap and reasonable cars but because of Proton, all the other car prices have been raised up tremendously to protect Proton. We all know MITI controls all the car prices to protect Proton.

      Malaysians have already suffered so much. For 30 years, 30 million people suffer so much. We struggle paying for our high car prices all because of one man’s dream of protecting the dying Proton. Proton sucks billions of our LHDN money, money which could be used to build more schools and hospitals.

      If we did not have Proton sucking money from LHDN, each state can have an additional 10 fully fledged government hospitals and 10 fully fledged government schools every 10 years being built. But all our LHDN money go to the failing Proton. Every year government gives hundreds of million to Proton as form of grants. Every other year, Proton ask RM billions in help. Recently, even under private hands also (DRB) Proton asked the government to give them free few RM 2 billions from LHDN.

      We are fed up of Proton.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 86 Thumb down 32
      • Low Quality Combination on Feb 25, 2015 at 9:55 am

        China people so brand and quality conscious. U go to London, they are the ones buying top desgner brands. No bargaining. just pay cash.

        You think people in China going to buy anything that comes from Proton?

        Nearly 10 million Chinese in Malaysia already told their family and ancestors in China what a snake Proton is and how Proton has destroyed so many lives in Malaysia because it is so low in quality.

        You think China people will buy after listening to their people in Malaysia?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 14
      • I’m afraid that what you are saying is not factual.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 2
      • its gomen suck our money on Feb 25, 2015 at 10:50 am

        X habis habis forward the same article wahahah….brainwash org eh…duit BRIM tue sebenarnya patut x payah bg..dari duit tu buat 10 hospital 10 sekolah…bongok…tak habis habis salahkan proton dalam hal ni..malaysia x maju sbb proton..rakyat miskin sebab proton…u x dpt naik pangkat sebab proton.. lagi?? Minyak mahal sbb proton..is that what u means?? Ringgit jatuh sbb proton…come on man…

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 22
        • Lorat on Feb 25, 2015 at 11:18 am

          Thank you Oba… Proton!

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
          • idontknowmuch on Feb 25, 2015 at 11:11 pm

            i only know without vehicle excise duties it gonna benefit us as Malaysian consumer

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
      • Ultra2Disk on Feb 25, 2015 at 11:04 am

        Ahh, copypasta comment and I don’t see any factual in these !

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2
      • i know that in 2003, Proton Iswara Aeroback Limited Edition Manual is at RM38k, no Airbag, just kosong.. now, Proton Saga SV Manual is at RM34k with 2 Airbags.. ok what hehehe

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 4
        • 4G63T DSM on Feb 25, 2015 at 1:20 pm

          The Iswara platform dates back to 1983.

          The first saga in 1985 was only 15K. How did the price inflate to 38K in 2003? What extra did you get?

          So blame who now?

          Some people very short sighted…or maybe too young.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2
    • Low Quality Combination on Feb 25, 2015 at 9:46 am

      Aready Proton is low in quality. Now, camput this to China’s low quality, I don’t know what will really happen.

      1 low quality + another low quality = Very very low quality.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 6
    • Company with No Focus on Feb 25, 2015 at 10:11 am

      Proton has no focus. Already a big failure in Malaysian market because of giving Malaysians low quality products the past 25 years. Now, doing badly, they go to China to corrupt the market there.

      Every single car company do well in their home market first. Build confidence with your own people. Then only go overseas to JV and build cars.

      No focus at all.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 3
    • Short Skirt? on Feb 25, 2015 at 10:14 am

      How come show girl with short skirt? Isn’t this haram? Malaysian car should show girl all covered up. After all, in Malaysia, short skirts are all haram. So, being a Malaysian company, they should insist in a fully covered women up.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 26
      • Annoy_namous on Feb 25, 2015 at 12:07 pm

        Bro, if you don’t know what is the meaning of haram, better seek clarification rather than speculating. I also can assume that you also don’t know the meaning of hudud. And remember one thing, this is Automotive Forum.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 1
      • kangkong on Feb 25, 2015 at 5:59 pm

        Come on. This is car forum!
        Ini haram itu haram. I hate those people always talk like this which in fact their mind is the most haram as they just can think of sex.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
  • shahrul niza on Feb 25, 2015 at 9:46 am

    what a waste of time and resources.
    no use flogging a dead donkey.
    P1 listen3x . people in China will opt
    for better and more advance technology cars.
    nobody wants to be seen in a Proton.
    go sell your goods elsewhere !!
    reality hurts but that’s the truth.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 3
  • Now we get a Chinese re-badged Proton ? How pathetic !!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 2
  • fastd on Feb 25, 2015 at 10:06 am

    In China, if want to JV, show your money 1st…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
  • Short Skirt? on Feb 25, 2015 at 10:15 am

    How the girl even want to sit down? Skirt so short like that. Why JAIS never make noise? Why Isma quiet?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 25
    • antiP1 on Feb 25, 2015 at 12:35 pm

      u shud be in prison under sedition of act….anyway i see dongzong there..

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2
    • Deus Ex on Feb 25, 2015 at 1:01 pm

      Because she’s in China, you twat, see the Youngman rebadged Proton sitting in a Youngman showroom? Even JAIS knows it doesn’t have jurisdiction there. Oh and don’t you worry about the lass, she looks like she can handle herself without your “attention”.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1
    • kangkong on Feb 25, 2015 at 6:02 pm

      Otak udang. This is in China! Are you entering paultan to see lady or car?? Shame on you! Boo….

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
  • Good Luck to Proton…!!! Hope they succeed in becoming a global automotive company.

    On a side note, Proton’s has recently improved their quality and marketing by leaps and bounds. The latest Exora is feature-packed, built well and provides excellent value. Thumbs-up..!! :)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 11
  • Just like the Gov, this is another Flip Flop case company.
    As long as Politics and Politicians involved the is no end of it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1
  • boringlahhh on Feb 25, 2015 at 10:34 am

    u tak bosan ker keep repeat this crap again and again?

    anyway u tak suka u keluar lah…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 24
  • car-fans on Feb 25, 2015 at 10:45 am

    Time is up … So pls ‘retire’ from the automobile biz. Let’s Msian enjoys good car with good price.

    TQVM.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 6
  • Bought the model on the left, not the car :-P

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 34 Thumb down 0
  • Sam Loo (ori1) on Feb 25, 2015 at 11:25 am

    If the chick comes with the car, then chances of selling will be better.

    But 18 months on when its time to sell, the chick would have been worn out

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2
    • Got better RV than the car though

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0
    • By 18 Months the chick would have been worn out?
      You think the chick is another Toyota meh…lol

      By the look and shape the chick could easily last for 5-7yrs.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4
  • Alson P on Feb 25, 2015 at 11:37 am

    Proton technology. Proton handling. Proton engineering. Proton RnD. Lotus badge cars.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0
  • lcmbryan on Feb 25, 2015 at 11:38 am

    Proton design and engineering department is doing very well I would said. The problem is with marketing department. They market their product back to their existing customer only.

    You see how they market the product I will laugh. Sell expensive at first then cheaper version later. If I’m a first time buyer you think I’m happy to see my car losing value.

    Just use perodua as an example they sell it cheap so people all buy buy buy value for money ma and people wouldn’t complain cause cheap. Then sell higher version people who buy the cheap version at first will feel wow I buy same car as the expensive one. Please fire your marketing department head.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 1
    • antiP1 on Feb 25, 2015 at 12:38 pm

      yeahh marketing did tremendously poor job…heard they hired various kind of well-known ppl for this post but end up doing scrappy things…get rid of all those old ppl with old kind of thinking and ideas

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1
  • One of the bosses relative must be the Marketing Director.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
  • Newcomer on Feb 25, 2015 at 3:45 pm

    I came here for the girls. Its so hot!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 3
  • Aero (Member) on Feb 25, 2015 at 5:18 pm

    I saw this coming a while back. I think it has little to do with Proton and more with Lotus.

    Lotus cannot enter the lucrative Chinese market because Youngman holds the rights to distribute cars under the Lotus name (and name only). If Lotus enters China now, it will wreck havoc for Youngman because their only real USP (unique selling proposition) is the fact that they can claim their cars have Lotus design and engineering expertise. In reality, all of their cars are either rebadged Proton cars, or indigenously designed Youngman cars based on extended Proton platforms and (made in China) CamPro and Mitsubishi engines (which Youngman bought a few years back). The T5 SUV is all but a concept, it’s not on the market. However, seeing that China is currently going through a ‘SUV boom’, I believe that the T5 SUV will do amazingly well if it makes it into production. Then there’s the somewhat luxurious L6 Sportback, which appears to be an updated L5. The harsh reality for the average Chinese car buyer is that Lotus Engineering only has a small presence in Youngman’s cars; Proton plays a bigger role indirectly. Yet, there is little to no mention of Proton in Youngman’s brochures and website.

    If Youngman can get out of the way, Lotus Cars can finally enter the Chinese market. This is a sure-fire, 101% way of boosting their sales as the Chinese market is one of the biggest markets for sports cars. Proton and Lotus Cars are trying to sever their ties to Youngman, which recently bought Swedish Saab and Dutch Spyker, and supposedly upset Lotus Engineering in the process enough to force them to leave China for the moment. That was in late 2012. Now it’s 2015 and Youngman’s sales still have not recovered all that much.

    I’m not as well-informed on Proton’s relationship with Goldstar, but I was not expecting to hear this (good) news today. If this new understanding works out, I hope Proton can export their newest cars in CKD form to Fujian, where Goldstar would assemble them and sell them as Proton cars, not Lotus cars. Because if they don’t, then Lotus Cars will not be able to enter the Chinese market. I hope that somewhere along the lines, Lotus Cars will launch in China. They are one of the few reputable car companies which have yet to launch there.

    And Proton cannot afford to mess up in their Chinese export market. This is the most important export market for Proton (not the U.K. and Australia which are for the namesake and not volume). If Proton can pull it off, they will set themselves up for millions in profit. If not, then China’s own national cars companies will overtake Proton in the next 3 years (some already have).

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2
    • Plane on Feb 25, 2015 at 5:41 pm

      dunno what you are talking about. there seems to be already a few dealers here.

      http://www.lotuscarschina.com/dealers/

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
      • Aero (Member) on Feb 25, 2015 at 5:57 pm

        Yeah, my bad Plane. I read a recent report on Lotus opening a new 4S showroom in Beijing. I don’t normally keep up to date with Lotus Cars’ news, but I will now.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
    • Aero (Member) on Feb 25, 2015 at 5:54 pm

      Okay, I just read an April 2014 report that Lotus Cars has indeed officially launched in China since late 2011 / early 2012. (http://www.lotuscars.com/news/corporate/lotus-opens-first-4s-centre-golden-port-motor-park-beijing-china)

      Man, I have not been keeping up to date with Lotus’ news. My bad for my misinformed comment. But now it’s confirmed then; Lotus wants to separate themselves from Youngman and are building their own network in China. Now Proton is forced to find another Chinese partner company because Lotus doesn’t want to work with Youngman anymore. Makes sense.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2
  • Jilbaber (Member) on Feb 25, 2015 at 5:21 pm

    That SUV looks good…Proton don’t want to launch that model aaa ?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
  • Username1 on Feb 26, 2015 at 9:27 am

    I just came here to view all the entertaining comments my fellow Malaysian always seem to have whenever there is a proton related article on Paultan. I absolutely lovr the new look mobile sute though. Gj Paultan

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1
  • zaizaizai on Feb 26, 2015 at 9:32 am

    not enough pics of the amoi.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
  • lotusupporter on May 01, 2015 at 11:59 am

    PERHAPS THIS NEW JV SHOULD BE BUILDING LOTUS HYBRID OR 100% BATTERY ELECTRIC VEHICLE(BEV) AS THE TREND IS TO ADOPT 100% GREEN AND CLEAN ZERO EMISSION BEV WITH HUGE INCENTIVES FROM THE CHINA GOVERNMENT AS THE BATTERY ELECTRIC CARS ARE THE FUTURE PLATFORM FOR AUTOPILOT AND SELF DRIVING WITH TESLA’S OPEN SOURCE PATENTS AND ALSO GETTING OTHER SOURCES FOR ADVANCED SOFTWARE FOR RUNNING AUTOPILOT AND AUTONOMOUS DRIVING AS THE FUTURE OF ALL BEV AND ALSO WITH FUEL-LESS ELECTRIC POWER GENERATORS AND FROM SOLAR, WIND, HYDRO, WAVE, GEOTHERMAL AND OTHER CLEAN AND SAFE NUCLEAR SOURCES TO CLEAN AND GREEN THE WORLD AND THE LOTUS BEV CAR COULD BE SOLD WORLDWIDE AS ALL BEV SHOULD.
    LOTUS WAS THE ORIGINAL ASSEMBLER OF TESLA ROADSTER AND THEY COULD BUILD THEIR OWN 100% BATTERY ELECTRIC CARS OF THEIR OWN FOR SALE WORLDWIDE IF THE GRAPHENE ALUMINUM/GERMANIUM/ZINC ION/AIR BATTERY HIGH STORAGE DENSITY COULD IMPROVE THE RANGE OF BEV WITH THE LATEST HIGH DENSITY POWER STORAGE BREAKTHROUGHS COMING SOON.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
 

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