Paul Tan's Automotive News » Detroit Electric

Detroit Electric e63 spotted in Subang – is something up?

Anthony Lim — Wed, 05 Jan 2011 08:49:50 +0000

After a serious bout of activity and publicity a couple of years ago, news from Detroit Electric, which was aiming to produce electric vehicles based on Proton’s Persona and GEN2 models, has pretty much gone quiet.

The company signed a supply and manufacturing agreement with Proton in March 2009, where it was to buy the Persona and GEN2, replace the CamPro engine with an electric motor drivetrain, and rebadge them as the Detroit Electric e63 and the e46 models. Later, it also inked a deal with Chinese automaker Dongfeng to use its battery-electric drivetrain technology for the latter’s models.

The e63 during the media introduction in September 2008.

Activity-wise, not much has been happening. Or perhaps there is – reader Kenneth Sow spotted an e63 in Subang Jaya yesterday, running a trade plate and with four passengers inside. The car was unmistakable, since it had bits and pieces of green stickers plastered all over it, along with the Detroit Electric logo pasted on the sides.

Sow reports that as the car was pulling off along NPE towards Subang, it was seen to be making small turns, as if testing out handling, and his observation of the car’s acceleration from 0-70kph (stop/go at traffic lights) was that it was excellent, despite carrying four people.

Which brings us to the question – is there something stirring in the mix, or is it merely a false alarm, it being the Proton boys doing an evaluation on the car as part of their EV studies?

This story originally appeared on Paul Tan's Automotive News on Mon, 13 Feb 12 01:37:10 +0000.

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Detroit Electric to supply electric car technology to Dongfeng; potential JV in works?

Paul Tan — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:56:59 +0000

Dongfeng has commissioned Detroit Electric to jointly research, develop, market and sell Electric Vehicles in China using Detroit Electric’s electric drive systems.

The Chinese company will provide the cars, and Detroit Electric will provide the propulsion, similiar to the arrangement that DE has with Proton. But the DE-Proton deal involves rebadging the Persona and GEN2 under the Detroit Electric brand, but for Dongfeng, the two companies will study and explore the market entry strategy under the Dongfeng and Detroit Electric brand.

The two companies are also discussing the possibility of forming a joint venture company to manufacture, assemble, produce and supply the electric drive technology in China to the Dongfeng Group and other vehicle manufacturers that want to buy the technology.

Dongfeng does Kia, Nissan, PSA Peugeot Citroen and Honda in China, but they have been recently focusing on developing their own brand too. They recently launched a sedan based on the old Citroen ZX chassis called the Dongfeng Aeolus Fengshen, shown above.

This story originally appeared on Paul Tan's Automotive News on Mon, 13 Feb 12 01:37:10 +0000.

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Detroit Electric e63 and e46 Initial Specifications

Paul Tan — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 07:06:29 +0000

What you see above is a gist of what Detroit Electric claims its debut duo based on the GEN2 and Persona will be able to achieve. You will also be able to choose between two battery packs of different capacities, for a total of 4 models.

The batteries use Lithium Polymer, which makes Detroit Electric the 2nd manufacturer to announce the use of the battery technology in a production vehicle. The first was the Hyundai-Kia Group. Two different capacities are given – one with 25kWh and another with 40kWh. The 25kWh is referred to as the city model while the latter is called the long range model. Maximum range per charge was given as 180km and 320km respectively, but of course if you whack the car during a weekend drive to Genting Sempah and back I doubt it’s going to last that long, just like the quoted mileage figures for a petrol car.

Detroit Electric claims over 2,000 charge cycles but what also has to be considered is the life of the batteries. Batteries also lose their capacity over time, not just how many times it is charged. I know Wikipedia is not a completely reliable source but they give the lifetime of Li-Po batteries as 24 to 36 months, so that’s about 2-3 years. Hopefully DE’s batteries last longer.

The battery is not developed in-house but it will be licensed from a major manufacturer, which has yet to be decided although discussions with a few are already in progress. DE intends to be able to source the batteries here if possible.

The electric motor, which is their very own patented design that they call “Axial Magnetic Flux” is said to have a nominal power of 75kW continuous power which is the equivalent to 100 horsepower, and a peak power of 150Kw, or 200 horsepower. Torque figures are very nice – 350Nm to 380Nm.

As for charging, the 40kWh battery is said to take 10 hours to get from a 0% to a 80% charge on a regular 13A 240V household socket.

Detroit Electric says an estimated price tag for the cars in the US market would be US$23,000 for the city model and US$33,000 for the long range model – that’s a whole US$10 grand more for the extended battery capacity, which means the most expensive thing in the car is the battery! Converting these amounts to ringgit would put them out of reach for most people here really. The 40kWh model figures are quite far from the RM80k that Detroit Electric first mentioned during their test drive session last year.

Look after the jump for a full list of the specs.

This story originally appeared on Paul Tan's Automotive News on Mon, 13 Feb 12 01:37:10 +0000.

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Prodis-T Sdn Bhd to spearhead electric car charging infrastructure setup in Malaysia

Paul Tan — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 03:02:16 +0000

Detroit Electric signed two agreements yesterday actually – we already know of the one with Proton. The other was a Memorandum of Understanding with a local company – Prodis-T Sdn Bhd.

Prodis-T is said to be entrusted with leading the implementation of electric car charging infrastructure in Malaysia. Detroit Electric will provide technical expertise to support R&D activities. They aim to raise USD 50 million in capital through both private investments and financial loans over the next 2 to 5 years.

But who is Prodis-T exactly? While Prodis-T calls itself a homegrown automotive technology supplier, it is quite young looking at their SSM registration number and a quick check on the net reveals another Prodis-T Sdn Bhd which is a distributor for IBM and Lenovo products for SIs that do work for the government and GLCs. That website was dated 2008. They must have changed direction sometime this year.

Anyway, the quicker Prodis-T and Detroit Electric sort this out the faster we will be able to enjoy the electric cars that are going to be assembled here and exported!

This story originally appeared on Paul Tan's Automotive News on Mon, 13 Feb 12 01:37:10 +0000.

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Detroit Electric FAQ: a background on electric cars

Paul Tan — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:51:18 +0000

Detroit Electric issued this FAQ at the signing ceremony today aimed at clearing some doubts about the feasibility of electric cars, or at the very least why they think electric cars are feasible. Their product and marketing roadmap is also unveiled.

Sales will begin with the e46 GEN2 and e63 Persona in the first year with 40,000 units. By the third year they hope to hit 210,000 cars with 3 models, but of course this third model might not be a Proton. They are flexible to source vehicle platforms from any manufacturer and prefer working with that model but it so happens that their first two cars are Protons. By the 5th year of sales operation, they hope to be selling 315,000 vehicles from a total of 5 models.

Look after the jump for the FAQ document.

Click button on top right to view full screen

This story originally appeared on Paul Tan's Automotive News on Mon, 13 Feb 12 01:37:10 +0000.

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Detroit Electric to sell electric Persona and GEN2

Paul Tan — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 13:29:43 +0000

Detroit Electric and Proton Holdings Berhad signed an agreement today for a supply and manufacturing agreement related to Detroit Electric’s upcoming range of electric vehicles. Detroit Electric is manned by ex-Lotus Engineering CEO Albert Lam and used to have a joint venture with ZAP and Youngman which didn’t happen.

Interestingly Detroit Electric’s ex-partner Youngman is Proton’s customer in China, where it buys the Proton Persona and GEN2 to rebadge as its own cars. Detroit Electric’s deal with Proton is similiar. It will buy the Proton Persona and Proton GEN2 from Proton to fit with an electric motor instead of the CamPro engine, and rebadge them as the Detroit Electric e63 and the Detroit Electric e46 respectively.

The deal is expected to take in RM 2 billion of revenue for Proton over the next 4 to 5 years, with expected volume to be 40,000 cars a year, potentially to grow up to 100,000 cars a year, if Detroit Electric does well in marketing its EVs. They will work with Proton engineers and assemblers to optimise the assembly line. The cars will be built alongside the regular Persona and GEN2 at Proton’s Tanjung Malim plant. The installation of the electric motor and battery and etc will be done off line.

Detroit Electric said it picked Proton as its partner after discussing with a few others because it allowed Proton an easy entry into the market. Given that Lotus Engineering, the company that Albert used to work for, had a part to play in the development of the GEN2 and Persona should clear up any doubts that Detroit has with the capability of the car’s chassis.

More details on the cars to come in a post following this, but the specifications for the cars seem impressive at first sight but because of an extended teh tarik session between the VIPs there, the press conference was extremely delayed and we ended up having less than half an hour to ask questions, so we’re not sure if these specs are finalised or not. If they are finalised, looks good.

The first production cars will hit the road in Q1 or Q2 2010, and target markets are UK, Europe and China. No mention of Malaysia, apparently that is still under study Detroit Electric are targetting markets with incentives for zero emission vehicles or at least fines and taxes for polluting vehicles.

A US market entry is expected towards end-Q3 2010 or beginning Q4 2010 because of the additional work needed to get the Persona and GEN2 homologated in the US. Apparently Detroit Electric will be paying for this, so no expenditure from Proton in that sense.

Detroit Electric is also exploring the possibilities of locating its battery and electric motor plant here. Albert Lam says Malaysia is an attractive place for them because of the availability of engineers as well as the relatively low labour costs.

Coming up next – some specs of the cars. In the meanwhile look after the jump to watch some videos that Detroit Electric gave us.

Detroit Electric Press Conference (Part 1 of 2)

Detroit Electric Press Conference (Part 2 of 2)

This story originally appeared on Paul Tan's Automotive News on Mon, 13 Feb 12 01:37:10 +0000.

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Detroit Electric to sign RM 1.2 billion agreement with Proton for electric car development

Paul Tan — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 07:07:09 +0000

It appears that Detroit Electric has finally settled on Proton for its partner in producing its electric cars. According to a release by Detroit Electric, the company is set to sign a RM 1.2 billion (US$331 million) agreement with Proton to produce pure electric cars based on protons, beginning with the Proton Persona.

When we attended Detroit Electric’s press preview back in September 2008, we got to sample some electric cars converted by the company, such as an electric Lotus Elise. There were also various prototype electric cars there such as a Persona and a Savvy.

According to Detroit Electric head Albert Lam, a 100% electric powered Persona could be available in the regions of RM 80,000. Detroit Electric will use a production line at Proton’s Shah Alam manufacturing plant to produce the electric Protons.

Read our previous write-ups on Detroit Electric for more info.

This story originally appeared on Paul Tan's Automotive News on Mon, 13 Feb 12 01:37:10 +0000.

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DRIVEN: Detroit Electric’s electric Lotus Elise

Paul Tan — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 08:50:59 +0000

Click for hi-res image

Would you be interested in a Proton Persona powered by 100% electric power for about RM80k? That could be a genuine question sometime in the future, thanks to Detroit Electric. The team from Detroit Electric is in KL this week with their fleet of prototype electric cars built on existing models. A few cars were available at the media event today including a Lotus Elise, a Proton Persona, and a Proton Savvy. All were powered by Detroit Electric’s electric powertrains with various power ratings.

We took the Lotus Elise for a spin around Proton’s oval test track at its Shah Alam plant. Read our experience as well as more on Dutch-based Detroit Electric after the jump.

Click for hi-res image

When I nestled myself into the cockpit, it was all calm and serene. The car felt like wasn’t even turned on. It was extremely quiet which is good in a way but for sports cars like the Elise, you would want to hear the rumbling engine sound.

Getting into first gear was a snap, as I did it without kicking the clutch pedal. You just have to slot it into first and go. The clutch is only used for the rest of the gear selection while driving. You don’t need any synchros and clutches to get the car moving from a standstill as the electric motor is perfectly happy idling at 0 rpm. It’s basically an engine that never stalls because an incorrect engine speed just does not exist.

Since I was eager to find out how much of a kick the electric motor can give, I gunned the throttle in anticipation. The acceleration was excellent as I made my up to third gear to reach 150km/h towards the end of the back straight. To put it into perspective, the power felt much alike a second generation Audi TT powered by the 2.0 litre TFSI engine.

As I eased off the throttle and dropped the gear to second to tackle the banking curve, the car really felt stable, as though the Elise was part of the tarmac. Through out the curve, I did push it a little harder, and I felt a good kick up my bottom when I shifted to third, and subsequently to forth gear right before slowing down on the main straight. I really wished I could have gone for more laps. Power wise, the only thing was missing from a high revving and high torque conventional engine was the sound, and thats it.

With the electric motor, you are never in the wrong gear as all the torque is available at all times. This will make an electric sports car so much easier to drive and I have a feeling its also easier to clock quick times on the track compared to one powered a conventional combustion engine.

Click for hi-res image

I also got the chance to become a passenger in a Proton Persona which was fitted with a lower powered prototype electric motor. There are no issues with auxiliaries that are usually powered by belts as these days there are electric power steering systems. The Persona was also complete with a must have feature for our climate, an air conditioning system that runs perfectly well. It really felt like I was sitting in a standard CamPro-powered Persona, everything was normal but very quiet, so quiet that tyre roll became so much more prominent.

The boot space in the Persona was pretty much completely taken up by the lithium ion batteries, but according to DE that is because this is a prototype that was quickly developed for the media preview. In a production car the batteries would be hidden better in a not so intrusive way.

The electric Lotus Elise had a 150kW (200hp) electric motor that can take it up to 100km/h in 4.3 seconds, and goes up to a top speed of 220km/h. It has a range of 325km and can be charged using a 240v 10A power source in 6.5 hours. A 240v 35A power source will do that in 3.5 hours while a quick charger with 240v 100A can charge it up to 80% in 10 to 15 minutes. A typical passenger car motor would have 75kW or 100hp and will do the 100km/h sprint in 8.5 seconds. Range and charge time is similiar to the Elise.

Click for hi-res image

Detroit Electric’s CEO Albert Lam said the running costs for a Proton Persona powered by an electric motor could cost about 3 sen per km based on current electricity tariffs. This is despite a typical 1,000kg car having an additional 200kg of weight added thanks to the electric motor and batteries. This means a Persona that weighs between 1,170kg to 1,240kg could end up weighting nearly 1,500kg. It sounds like an interesting proposition and the savings in monthly fuel expenses could justify for the higher initial cost.

A typical electric car can go between 200 to 300km on a full charge which should pose no problems for city driving but the problem would be inter-state trips which would definitely extend beyond the range. Using the air conditioning everyday uses about 8% of the battery life per day.

As for maintenance, Detroit Electric compared maintaining an electric motor to a “gearbox”, and that costs and maintenance procedures are similiar. The electric motor is developed in-house and is claimed to be revolutionary in the sense that it can produce 5kW per kg of weight compared to a normal motor’s 0.25kW per kg of weight. Thus the motor is supposed to be more compact and lighter than most of its competitors. The battery is expected to have a lifespan of 200,000km but it was not mentioned whether capacity would also slowly dwindle down to unusable amounts nearing the end of its lifespan.

Click for hi-res image

Charging the battery with a conventional wall socket takes between nearly 7 hours, but there is a quick charger that can charge the car up in less than half an hour. Even so, I don’t think this quick charger will be very portable otherwise it would have been integrated into the car anyway. You can’t be expected to park somewhere and plug the car in for 7 hours straight.

One solution would be a network of quick charge stations around the country. It’s a chicken and egg thing and our NGV refueling stations never really went anywhere in terms of nationwide coverage, but I believe with the right people pushing it (a sad fact for Malaysia), it could happen.

Even once a quick charging infrastructure around the country is up and running, half an hour of charging will need some getting used to compared to the refueling process of a few minutes that we are currently used to. Charging stations will also have to be huge with many charging points as these cars will be parked there hogging the charge stations. Still, I believe if 3 sen per km is achievable people will have no qualms about waiting.

Click for hi-res image

Electric Protons powered by Detroit Electric technology could be a reality in the future if talks go well. Detroit Electric says they are currently in talks with three manufacturers, one of which is Proton. The other two are an American company and a German company. The company’s talks with Proton revolves around the possibility of Detroit Electric buying various Proton chassis to develop their electric cars, and Proton selling Detroit Electric motors in a specific region which would be the ASEAN region for us, naturally.

All talks are still too preliminary at the current point of time and neither Detroit Electric or Proton would comment on how talks have progressed. But DE intends to have its first cars on the road in about 18 months time so we should be hearing something soon.

If things go well we could also see Detroit Electric setting up an overseas R&D center here in Malaysia. If that happens, we could see a total of RM1.02 billion invested in Malaysia over the first 5 years.

Story by Harvinder Singh Sidhu and Paul Tan

Click for hi-res image

This story originally appeared on Paul Tan's Automotive News on Mon, 13 Feb 12 01:37:10 +0000.

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Detroit Electric to base electric cars on Proton cars?

Paul Tan — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:12:54 +0000

UPDATE: Detroit Electric press conference in Malaysia – read more about Detroit Electric and our experience driving the Detroit Electric Lotus Elise and the Detroit Electric Proton Persona.

We may see electric versions of the Proton Savvy, Proton GEN2 and even a possible Proton MPV very soon, as evident from this recent revelation. They won’t be Proton-badged though – the world will know them as Detroit Electric cars. The Detroit Electric was an electric car produced by the Anderson Electric Car Company in Detroit between 1907 to 1939. It had a top speed of 32km/h and a maximum range of about 130km, though driving it in an efficient manner scored a record of 340.1km on a single charge.

The new Detroit Electric will be a joint venture between ZAP and China’s Youngman. Ex-Lotus Engineering top man Albert Lam (shown top left) will chair the new Detroit Electric venture. Its first cars will roll off the production line in summer 2009.

Now here’s where we find out some of Detroit Electric’s cars will be based off Proton bodies. Detroit Electric cars will be brought into the European market by a Dutch consortium called Electric Cars Europe (ECE). Their website lists a couple of models like an electric version of the Lotus Elise and an electric Volkswagen Golf.

But the Detroit Electric range is also listed: a four model line-up that consists of a subcompact, a mid-sized sedan/hatchback, the Zap alias, and a full-sized SUV called the ZAP-X, which we all know is an electric-powered Lotus APX.

To the left you will find the information on the compact electric car that Detroit Electric will offer. It is quite obviously a Proton Savvy with no badge on the front.

According to the preliminary info, the Detroit Electric Proton Savvy will be launched in the 4th quarter of 2009. It will be powered by a 30kW (40hp) electric motor that’s backed by lithium-ion batteries.

Range is about 300km, and I am not sure if my translation is right but it appears that the vehicle can be charged up in between 2.5 hours to 7 hours, depending on the power supply. Estimated price is 22,491 Euros, or about RM112,188.00!

The next car is described as a mid-sized sedan/hatchback. The silhouette looks like the Proton GEN2, except it seems to have a very radically styled front end. Two door handles on the side can be seen, showing that it has at least 4 doors, or 5 if its a hatch like the GEN2.

This larger Detroit Electric Proton GEN2 probably has a larger battery so it can go further with a maximum range of 550km, and on to a top speed of 190km/h thanks to its powerful 150kW (200 horsepower) electric motor. Charging time is listed as being between 3.5 hours to 10 hours, again depending on the source of power.

The Detroit Electric mid-sized sedan possibly and likely to be based on the GEN2 is expected to be launched in the second quarter of 2010 and will retail for 29,251 Euros, or RM145,599.00!

The final model (other than the ZAP Alias which I will not be talking about here) is the Detroit Electric ZAP-X based on ZAP’s ZAP-X concept which is in turn based on the Lotus APX, a 5-seater MPV developed by Lotus. Proton’s MPV could possibly be some variation of this concept by Lotus.

The Detroit Electric ZAP-X will be a monster, featuring 400kW (536 horsepower) of power and travelling up to 225km/h. Sounds like a BMW X6 competitor to me. It takes less than 4 seconds to get up to 100km/h.

Range is expected to be about 525km which indicates rather large lithium ion batteries but no figures were given on how long it would take to charge them up.

An expected launching date for the ZAP-X is the 4th quarter of 2010, and the Detroit Electric MPV/SUV vehicle will cost 71,400 Euros, or an astronomical RM355,400!

The usage of Proton cars to provide the base chassis for this project actually makes sense as Youngman (one of the partners in Detroit Electric, the other is ZAP) already has a relationship with Proton for it to supply left hand drive versions of the Proton GEN2 for rebadging in China as the Europestar RCR. Initially the orders will be CBU, but recently CKD kits have already started being shipped to China for local assembly there.

In fact, the faint sketch you see used to depict the Detroit Electric mid-sized sedan may be what a facelifted Europestar RCR will look like once the CKD operations in China are running smoothly and Youngman decides to give the Chinese GEN2 its own styling.

The technology used in these models are probably too expensive which is why the prices are quite high, making these cars far out of reach from the mass market here. It would be interesting to see if anyone brings them in here, perhaps Proton themselves.

Hat tip to thecordwainers.

This story originally appeared on Paul Tan's Automotive News on Mon, 13 Feb 12 01:37:10 +0000.

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Paul Tan's Automotive News » Detroit Electric

Detroit Electric e63 spotted in Subang – is something up?

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