Proton Holdings has sold it’s 57.57 percent stake in MV Agusta Spa to an Italian company Gevi Spa. Gevi Spa will assume MV Agusta’s debts and working capital requirements totalling 139.44 million euros, as announced today to Bursa Malaysia by Proton Holdings as part of it’s non-core asset divesting exercise.
Interesting to note that Proton originally acquired MV Agusta Spa last year on July 7 2004 for 70 million Euro, and finally sold it for a token sum of 1 Euro (RM4.48).
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i can buy also liao..!
Though Proton couldnt do much with the book, its better late than never.
wah..so cheap, RM4.48 only…
huh… ya… Selling price is only 1 Euro, but the buyer has to assume all and any debts that the company has. Would you still wanna buy it? :D
This is something like Tony Fernandez buying the airline company that he turned into Air Asia la… That fella's business acumen can be considered legendary now… How he managed to turn a near bankrupt company into the most sucessful budget airline in Asia is amazing.
Hopefully whoever who bought MV Agusta can do the same thing.
Bought at RM 313,600,000.00 and sold at RM 4.48! What a damn big looser.
Good money down the drain as always and we will all forget about this and no one will claim responsibility
Now this is what i call a culture of excellent
Proton …good Move…. bring more good quality n technology to Malaysian n overseas customers….
Bought at RM 313,600,000.00 and sold at RM 4.48!
Shame on "Potong" that waste the money for nothing.
What the hell are they doing, shame for the country.
Why Goverment still want to buy "Potong" share while they know they are the big looser and no brain fellow running the company.
How can they dump in the $$ without details study first.
Someone got to responsible for this!
Just like the case of MAS, why keep loosing $$, where else AirAsia can make profit.
MAS get full support from Goverment, yet still loosing $$, AirAsia is on their own but can survive, and bold at the end of day.
Come on, MAS, don't make anymore excuse, U are wasting Rakyat "bloody" money just to fill up your pocket.
How can they say paying $7k+ to maksalik is a special case, are you trying to fool us, who will believe.
Come on Rakyat Malaysia!! Post your unsatisfy sound here, so "They" will know we are concern and we are unhappy about it.
And hopefully they will be more caution on all the decision make in the future for the benefit of Rakyat.
A good decision for Proton. Rather than continuously getting suffer, a one time "cut-throat" pair is a must. At least we start to see Proton really dare to change, thus showing some improvement of Proton in making decision.
——Jenssss said,
December 28, 2005 @ 10:21 am
Bought at RM 313,600,000.00 and sold at RM 4.48! What a damn big looser.
ello brader….. do you think it easy doing bussiness…….. this is proton(risk N return is different) not pisang goreng stall…… if easy i dont think lotus shareholder sold it share to proton……..
Next up on the board; Malaysia Airlines.
Can I have the first bid for this award-winning airline?
Berikutan pengambilalihan itu, Gevi akan mengambil alih hutang MV Agusta berjumlah 106.94 juta euro (RM478 juta), di samping menyediakan keperluan modal kerja sebanyak 32.5 juta euro (RM145.3 juta).
Xoomie nak beli? Beli 1 euro, hutang 106.94 euro..! :-)
Paul, would you have a point-of-view on why MV Augusta was acquired in the first place? (i mean a 18-month devaluation of 69mil euro is quite a bit…)
Proton bought at 70Mil Euro but sold at 1Euro, there should actually be an inquiry into this. Even though Proton is a so called "private company", it still derives most of its benefits and owe its very existance to the Malaysian public at large.
Sound to me like there is hanky panky going on at the very beginning of this so called MV Augusta purchase. Someone must have benefited from this purchase in the first place.
In 2006-2007, we would hear that proton want's a soft loan from the government and at the same time, the government would try their best to convince the public to buy a piece of crap for transport. Another MAS story.
Suckers!
Dulu BMW ada jual Rover dengan harga 1 pound sterling. Beli 600 juta pound. Sekarang Rover pun dah muflis.
where is ACA, ACA, ACA!
hope this will be one of the good decisions that the new ceo is going to make.
cosmo : what talk you? No matter what business you are into, COMMON SENSE applies. The question is: why Mahaleel made the purchase in the first place? They can't even produce a decent car, let alone producing motorcycles? Why wouldn't they just concentrate on CARS in the first place? And what english are you sporting? Involved in rojak business? I understand
a bad move in my mind. both business-wise and integrity-wise ( not in a "national company" way , but more of the image of PROTON as a brand worldwide).. I wa quite surprised that they did not even considered changing the business scope a little bit. no flexibility on the knid of produts MV could design. It seemed it was a waste of money, time and honour..
1 Euro? WTF.
Cosmo brother, they should void this huge mistake at first place. Why bought? Used that money to build better and reliable transport to Malaysian rather than most of what other basher mention before.
Jenss!
Who can predict the future.. there's always risk on investment. I believe Proton has done lot of investigation and analysis before they bought MV Agusta at the 1st place. But again, you cannot predict the future. Even BMW lose some ammount of money when they sold Rover..
Common ah Jess it always easy to talk talk talk especially when it doesnt involve thinking
JESS,
The problem is Proton didn't do much thinking – that's is why within a year they lost much. Perhaps they think with their balls/ego not with their brains.
BMW bought a car company, wisely or unwisely, but still part their core business.
Proton bought a bike company (also built aicraft apparently) wtf for when they are still struggling and a car manufacturer?
I agreed with KetukKepala.
Why MV Augusta was acquired in the first place? Who make the decision.
Can anyone comment on this?
agree with u jess N cosmo.
who can predict the future……unless proton built TIME MACHINE…….. ahak ahak ahak….
if i can predict the future, better i invest in bursa malaysia ( stock market) or 4 DIGIT or TOTO …… for sure make money…… after that i can buy proton N make MURAH N QUALITY car…….
like i said be4, this is big bussiness not selling nasi lemak…….. a lot of decision maker involve……. at that time the risk involved was lower(minimal) but the degree of risk keep changing….
others view…..i think proton want to get the technology. they want to compete with other and build better car 4 malaysian…… but no luck ma…..
HIGH RISK HIGH RETURN….. dare to change…. ahak ahak ahak
Even Mecedes wants to dispose all 37% shares in Mitsubishi, why? because mitsu wants more money to be injected into them.
Muthu said, "who can predict the future……unless proton built TIME MACHINE"
Macha, that also will break down and those using it will be surely be lost somewhere in time la! Aren't they already?
What Tengku Mahalel want was "Malaysian product, lotus handling, italian design" I guess…..
Wonder will there be any independant audit investigation ? This is serious money being lost here.
Create customer loyalty and their own core brand wisely. In business easy to convince previous customer rather than new one…..This part missing from proton marketing strategy.
They can build high perfomance bicycles, high perfomance sport cars and superbike but how many of us wanna buy……together with their average build quality, parts and services reputation.
Build better saga, wira, perdana etc. …….
Ho…..hooo….. HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Man said,
December 28, 2005 @ 2:42 pm
Even Mecedes wants to dispose all 37% shares in Mitsubishi, why? because mitsu wants more money to be injected into them.
—–if i not mistaken Mitsubishi have bankrupt status(financial problem)……. they want proton inject more fund so that Y proton BLAH( terminate JV)……… so this was the right decision…….
Homer Simpson said,
December 28, 2005 @ 2:42 pm
Muthu said, “who can predict the future……unless proton built TIME MACHINEâ€
Macha, that also will break down and those using it will be surely be lost somewhere in time la! Aren’t they already?
ello brader…. how R U know…. U hav time machine ……? or U r NOSTRADAMUS……..? ahak ahak ahak
If POTONG is a real public-owned company, I wouldn't mind a bit. But they're using people's money to squander.
Stupid Investment.
Wonder what this so called " POTONG adviser" has to say about this?
I guess very little.
APANAMA APANAMA.
Muthu said, “who can predict the future……unless proton built TIME MACHINEâ€
Emm.. the next time I make a stupid decision I can borrow this line.
Oh god i cant believe people would knock them just because they dropped a joint-venture deal? Aww cmon. There are many smart comments on here on the volatility of business, getting out early before further losses, etc which i totally agree with but yet there are the unashamed (and irrational) bashers!
Take Jenss for example:
"Cosmo brother, they should void this huge mistake at first place. Why bought? Used that money to build better and reliable transport to Malaysian rather than most of what other basher mention before. "
Avoid a huge mistake? Yes we all should. You should too. I should as well. But hey, shit happens and it could have been a well thought out venture, and educated guess-timate on Proton's behalf. But still, as when you and i cross roads or walk around daily, we cant always avoid tripping up and falling on our faces occasionally. Shouldnt we be given clapclaps for knowing how to pick ourselves up, brush the wound off instead of slobbering and whining on the sidewalk?
As for that statement about building better/ reliable, well, maybe they re still acquiring transport-building knowhow.. Like via lotus and mv augusta?
KetukKepala was being equally dramatic:
"The problem is Proton didn’t do much thinking – that’s is why within a year they lost much. Perhaps they think with their balls/ego not with their brains.
BMW bought a car company, wisely or unwisely, but still part their core business.
Proton bought a bike company (also built aicraft apparently) wtf for when they are still struggling and a car manufacturer? "
Look, horizonal expansion/ acquisitions are not unheard of, nor are they doomed failures. Saab and BMW were in aviation, before they acquired more resources and built cars.. If they hadnt the "balls/ego" and only your definition of "brains" then we d be without them Ultimate Driving Machines no? Tsk.
Besides, wtf do we TRULY know about the auto industry anyway (please excuse me if you re a vet in the business – if you are i m sure you understand the following).. I dont think its as easy as we say it is. Which explains the many Mitsubishis, Saabs, Skodas, (at one point) Kia, Rovers of this world – look its a tough balance. These car makers have had exemplary models, even pseudo class leaders (re: Evo-series) but yet are in the financial red? Take a moment and let that simmer. Dont be smug. It certainly aint easy.
(Disclaimer: Criticisms are always a good thing. But its gotta be constructive, rational and at least given some thought)
That said, Proton has had its fair share of mistakes and they do without a doubt, need positive moves in the right direction.
Like dumping a bleeding, burdening loss-incurring investment?
Hmm
ello aik……
agree with U lah……like i said B4……. cakap2 kosong ma…… at the N of the day nothing happen but mr PAUL screaming…." what happen 2 my blog….."
lot of BASHERS here……. relax braders……. it only talk from unimportant people here who think they have voting right in PROTON…. ahak ahak ahak.. pity 4 u PAUL.
well , these bashers are the ones that have been supporting POTONG all this years.
So, basher or not, should respect their views. People got tired after 20 years driving the 20 year old best selling car in Malaysia.
BMW or other makes , they lost money but it's not the people's money.It's their shareholders.And they always bounce back with better products.
WOKAY!!!
errr…me just change my scooter rims..bling-blings ones….anyway good move by proton…HIDUP WIRA se !!..
what a waste. buy 140 mil euro, inject money to mv agusta some more n then sell to other people for 1 euro. so? what did proton got from mv agusta?? mv agusta was already in debt at first when proton got it right? so why didnt proton buy it with 1 euro at the first place??? or may be proton did buy it with 1 euro, but another 139,999,999 euro went to somebodies pocket… i smell prawn behind the stone
btw, good business italians!
proton, b4 cut throat by mitubishi. now by mv agusta, AGAIN… n after this by a bug perhaps?
another rm 300 million down the drain..
perwaja
bank islam
mas
potong
..and all other mega-projects that lost money
all the taxpayers money…
bangunan tertinggi di dunia, tapi jalan berlubang tak mau hirau atau repair…
tak ada orang sue tengku mahaleel ke?
mv agusta was tengku mahaleel's project just like lotus. italian designing capability. however b4 tengku mahaleel cld work on mv agusta to be a 'core asset' (designing is a core), he got kicked. so now the management decide to scrap what they called 'non-core asset'. PROTON, are u blind? work yet to be done n u call it 'non-core'.
btw proton, if u cant do car business, just stop. be a charity.org or chettier instead
Good call for proton….By buying MV Augusta we did manage to come up with the proton chancellor after 18 mths….Now if, DMC is still around and Rover is still up for grabs, we can buy more of this companies and transfer back some of their technology….
I agree with what someone said about spending more money to earn more money….It reminds me that we Malaysians like to take more money out of our pockets and invest it in something like proton and skim cepat kayas…
there goes our Tax money ..
I agree with Twoxer Hayzen..
Next is Malaysia Airlines..can I also bid for it? hahaha..
Bought at RM 313,600,000.00 and sold at RM 4.48..hmm I wonder where did their accountants get their degree from?
Hi KetukKepala ,
"Proton bought a bike company (also built aicraft apparently) wtf for when they are still struggling and a car manufacturer? "
Good statement (5/5) ..when they cant even handle the car industry,they want to acquire other stakes and now sell it for a price which is cheaper than my daily average lunch..silly..really silly…
Patrick…i support you all the way man!!
tell me which national company/project didn't make huge story!
UEM group? Perwaja Steel? Bakun? MAS? Proton? Bernas? Petronas?
bleh…
however, Proton have showed they're ready to make the changes, hopefully light will prevail at the end of the dark tunnel.
Although BMW sold Rover for 10GBP, but BMW retained Land Rover, take up all their technology, developed BMW X5, sell like hot cakes, then sell off Land Rover to Ford with a hefty amount.
Proton…. Proton….. hahaha~~ if i am Proton, I'd sell it off with 1 Million, also a token sum already, but still, RM999,999 more than now; can pay salary for many already. Stupid Proton, saw BMW sell Rover for 10GBP, they want to be better than them, can make news; hence people know Proton, then Proton hope to increase popularity, and sell more cars. Ok, i was joking, but i really wanna bash Proton~ hohohohoh I hate Proton, not their cars. Their cars are innocent babies from STUPID PARENTS. Lolololol ….. Proton owners are kind adopters. :D
There is nothing wrong with "proton bashers" giving their views. i have, and still own a proton, and i also have more than my fair share negative views on the products and brand. But this all boils down again to what those 'views' actually are, and it relates to the "proton-basher" topic that paul started.
quoted from ZIE, "So, basher or not, should respect their views."
If those views are total rubbish, and does not constitute any intelligent or educated comments, are we, the rest of the internet public, supposed to respect it? Sure, we have "free speech", but that is a right we are privileged to have, and should not be abused.
To say things like "just close POTONG down tommorow, and we all get cheaper cars lah" is rubbish. We are stuck with proton whether we like it or not and we have to make our comments based on that reality.
The reality is, no matter what the future holds, proton bought MV, lost a whole load of money, thats the reality we cannot change, and the only good thing to come out of it was to sell it ASAP. better to stem the bleeding quickly. At least someone bought it.
no comment… nanti Paul erase my comment about Proton. he he ha ha :D
First & foremost, it makes perfect business sense to divest off non-core assets when a corporate restructuring is taking place. I've personally seen companies selling off prime properties, lands, motor vehicle, etc etc back when I was working as an auditor. For this step, I have to give the management a pat on the back. Better cut loose than lost even more in the future !
Next, the question……… are Proton really this short of capable brain-power ? We've seen numerous times somebody capable is put in charge of turning ailing corporation around. Auto industry should be familiar with Goshn name. A classic example of turning a business around ! If Proton were able to put someone right (and for once forget about the god damn politics) at the top of MV Agusta, the venture should prosper !
Nissan was there last time ….. on sale to Renault at a rock bottom price & assuming the debts….. In goes 'Le Cost Cutter' down goes the debt and up goes the value of the company…….
To sum it up, Proton make a right move now abeit a PR disaster one ! People all walks of life will conclude that Proton is incapable accross all layers of management !!! It definitely dented the credibility of the management of Proton.
My 2 cents
Mayb alot of ppl will compare this with BMW buying rover. but unlike proton which got burnt without getting anything in return, BMW took out Land Rover and also the MINI marque out of the rover group b4 letting it go for peanuts. now it still owns the MINI marque (along with other obscure marque's like healy and such, but only in the name) and sold Land Rover to ford for a profit.
Proton?
I think a more pertinent question we should be asking is, does this deal affect us, the ordinary folk? The answer is yes, it does. Whether directly or indirectly because whatever affects Proton's bottomline will have an impact on their overall performance. As it is, they are already being protected by the govt via import taxes and so on for their non-national competitors and this affects our choice.
So the money Proton loses will have to be further subsidised by the govt, maybe not directly but somehow will have to be. Maybe a further delay in the implementation of AFTA.
A deal like this must have been carefully thought out and to those of you who says no one can tell the future, then obviously you know nothing about business because no one will put money into a company without knowing what the returns are going to be like. This looks more like a case of mismanagement to me.
Hello Aik , the problem of this Proton investment is the rationale behind the acquisition in the first place. If the reason and objective is clear , fine , go for it. But for all you & I know is that mv augusta has a rich history in racing and design full stop. Business acutement … I am no corporate figure but I do know the basic between dare to vision , dream and make a mission out of it WITH sini tikam sana tikam … sini masuk sana masuk ma.
You said it right that even when crossing the road there is the occasional fall flat on the face. That is not the problem. The main thing is what was the purpose you were crossing the road. I mean if you kept crossing the road only to check how many ants and bugs was dating on the road , you were lucky not to be hit by by a proton , of all so many thing , forking T-Bike !!! Who to be blame ? An idiot who for no reason kept on crossing the road or a incompetent LUXURY cyclist .. tsk tsk tsk..
Of course there is no guarantee profit/success in investment or business except maybe expressway concessionaries. Key word is what was the reason for the investment ? For the design or the see how to match the bike colour onto SRM launch car tsk tsk tsk… think !
I am not bashing proton. I am saying whatever the reason, someone has got to stand up and take the heat for this pile of shit. This shit may cause us to continue subsidising our NATIONAL car into the next millenium and there goes my MAZDA 6 tsk.. tsk. tsk.. think!
guys, no use to say who right who wrong, who basher who not… u right, he right, everyone right. everyone wrong too. :D
is a huge lost to PROTON (i use PROTON here becoz…), but at least they sell this MV Agusta from getting more lost, and i believe this is becoz PROTON new mgt know that they can't improve anything on MV Agusta in short period. since they want to improve their annual report in short period, sold off this company will seems to be a good decision.
but what 'MutantTomato' said is attracting me… will MV Agusta become another Airasia? i wondering if it happens, how the MV Agusta mgt manage to do it? while PROTON can't? of coz it means something that PROTON lack about, am i right? if the new holder can't improve MV Agusta also, then at least PROTON clear its shit already.
loss mean loss, forget that, and look to the future is the only way here. just hope next time don't be the same. we can't always 'tahan' a story like this. 1EURO? wat lao eh… :D
cheers…
So, if you criticise Proton then you are labelled Proton-basher?
Just like what G.W. Bush said, "either you are with us or you are with them" (or something like thatlah) ?
The current management is right to bail out from this deal. But the issue many people have including myself is, why and how the deal which appears dodgy, was struck in the first place. It raised a many eye brows then, including so called industry analysts.
Are we suppose to just say "takpe lah" , "nasiblah", "they know what they are doinglah".
70 mil Euro investment (mainly taxpayer money mind you) comes to almost nothing in such a short time is scandalous.
Horizontal expansion only at the appropriate time. Otherwise the company will go "horizontal". Appropriate or not judge for youself.
Guys,
There's an interesting debate on www.jeffooi.com on this issue.
Check it out.
it's both stupid and wise.
stupid for not being able to look in the long run, stupid for not doing anything to improve that debt-laden company other than pumping in money. i dont wana explain panjang lebar on normal processes an acquiring company would do to a newly bought company and successfully turn it back to black, but i'll just say, proton didnt do anything like them. 'nuff said.
wise bcoz it has finally disposed of that company, even at a huge, heavy loss.
anything more? alot… but now i malas to write. nobody would listen to a PBâ„¢ anyway…
Well….yet another dumb decision by good old proton..
Com'on, will proton ever give up to be a 'car giant' …either be 'mini-me' or closed the bloody hello down.
Twoxer Hayzen,
Read the blog you mentioned. Got to agree with you.
It's interesting and kind of makes me think .
Well, for those of you who want to support proton the national cars to improve our economy, go ahead lah by all means.
It's so pathetic when someone would want to compare this incident to emron, giving the excuses it also happened to the mat salleh world.
People in the bolehland, if u want to be the best in this planet, embrace the good and discard the bad.
hopeless….
waaa just buy n sell like jual kacang wut a bloody fool people in proton.r they bought their cert wut a shit old man
lol… last joke of 2005……
A good decision to release all stake inside MV Agusta. Luckily its was 1 year Proton was involved in MV Agusta. Thus they got the technology but their core business is more on car. A big applause for P1. Although they lost couple of mils but they are not lost bils yet. So pl out there pls do not blaming on them because they already admits their fault and pls do give them a chance to prove it again. I believe that P1 can do better in future.
The fact is Proton still can maintained it Vehicle Registration above 5000 units per month for Klang Valley areas!!! Who said Proton can't sell!!!!!! This means P1 can sell more than 60, 000 units per annum. Dude, this number really big……Toyota & Honda can't beat this figures!
For Toyota lovers, TOYOTA IS REALLY CRAP!!! A PIECE OF SH*T! F**K TOYOTA!
4G93-SC said –
"The fact is Proton still can maintained it Vehicle Registration above 5000 units per month for Klang Valley areas!!! Who said Proton can’t sell!!!!!! This means P1 can sell more than 60, 000 units per annum. Dude, this number really big……Toyota & Honda can’t beat this figures! "
It's because of all those "Pengguna Bijak" that is Malaysian carbuyers and the EVIL tax protection enjoyed by Protong that make this possible. Protong still can sell even though they r CHEAP (quality wise) is because they r CHEAP ($$$ wise).
About 6 months ago, I was told by many Protong sale reps that Protong have stopped the production of Wira sedan, n they r goin to stop the Wira Aeroback VERY soon. Wonder why the Aeroback is still around, and the sedan is reappearing in the showrooms?
>>>Waja and Junk2 is NOT selling enough to support its revenue!!!
Almost all big companies, conglomerates, corporations and the like have made some really stupid mistakes in their business history. Stupid not because of the execution and the idea but because the idea wasn't well thought out.
A few examples off the top of my head:
1. Colgate made some foodstuff. It didn't sell well because people associated Colgate Palmolive with toothpaste and other soaps.
2. Heinz made bottled food for adults. The problem was the packaging was similar to their baby food line. Once again, this product failed.
3. Premier made smokeless cigarettes. The flavour was locked in a capsule and the cigarette paper was a special kind that didn't emit smoke. Problem was it took too long to light and people just prefered seeing themselves blow out smoke!
In our own country, we can see many examples of such mistakes. For example:
1.Pepsi coming up with stupid drinks like Pepsi Tarik, Pepsi Fire
2. Maxis buying ADAM (they really got a can of worms there!)
I don't think Proton did a mistake when they bought MV Augusta. The mistake they made is that they didn't do anything with the company besides pump money into it, as quite a few people have said. If they had utilised the company's technological background, designing expertise and so forth, they could have at least got something out of it. That would have also raised the price of the company.
Lastly but not least, 4G93-SC, don't make comments like your brain is in your ass! OBVIOUSLY Proton would have high selling numbers in Malaysia! Its the cheapest damn car you can buy! There are many people out there who would much rather buy something else but they just don't have the cash to do so!
And uhmm… "TOYOTA IS REALLY CRAP!!! A PIECE OF SH*T! F**K TOYOTA!" Wow…. What an astute comment… Must have taken you a reeeeeeeaaaaalllly long time to come up with such a good, informative comment…
see fat said- "…bangunan tertinggi di dunia, tapi jalan berlubang tak mau hirau atau repair…"
Typical "heritage" left over from Mahathir-ism style of doing things – Stuff that can be seen from a macroview (KL Tower, KLCC, KLIA, Sepang F1 Circuit, Putrajaya, etc)r ALWAYS "Boleh", stuff that can only be seen from a microview (roads, drainage, etc) and that affects the Rakyat r treated with the Malaysian trademark "Tidak apa" attitude…
Apa boleh buat? Dah jadi culture…
This sorry episod happened when politics interfered with commercial decisions. No political will to dispose those lousy crap POTONG vendors producing cheap skate bl***dy auto parts.
So afraid to let the mat saleh to lead our national company.Instead,still clinging to the belif that a historian graduate can lead an auto company.
Wherethe hell is the culture of gemilang dan terbilang.
Mostlt NATO ( no action,talk only)
This POTONG is going down.i
i agree with mutant tomato…the biggest mistake was proton din utilise the company’s technological background, designing expertise and so forth..when tengku aquire it, i am sure he got some plans for it..but b4 he could start his plans, he was forced out of proton..so end up with MV agusta being a white elephant..tengku focus more on Spottiness, so MV agusta is really a good investment..but since the new MD took over, he focus more on practicality and affordability..and he finds tat no use keeping MV agusta..
i agree with infinity… yeah maybe the new MD goes for 'practicality n affordability' which is typical malaysian instead of 'expanding and moving forward'. his a perodua guy! yup its 'practical n affordable'—–> just copy japanese cars AKA perodua. BTW proton's boards and management decision on mv agusta was utterly naive. are they expecting mv agusta investment going to bare fruit in merely 1 YEAR????? ok, invest in my ASB n i gerenti next year get profit…..
Proton boight it for 70m euro. They keep pumping money into the company, paying their debts. Finally they sold it at 1 euro + 106.94m euro of debts = 106.940001 euro. Finally a wise decision also it is a little bit to late. I hear the same goes with Lotus. But please Proton, make sure there are some real technology transfer. We don't even have to buy a high profile company. Maybe buying some patented stuffed will help us. Remember. The Japanese is the master in copying at their early stage. Learn from others, learn from mistakes. Meanwhile, whoever said Korean cars are better than locals I agree with them. But Korean automobiles industry has gone almost 50years. It is only in the last 5-6years recently their quality top mark other marques. Korean cars like Kia and Hyundai (One conglomerate actually) go a long way to achieve their status right now, not just 20 years. For Proton, 20 years is a short time. If we learn from others, we can cut it. Learn from the experience. Can u imagine to learn mathemathics by yourself instead learning it from a teacher? Think again We can cut short the time we need from our experience itself. Try other's experience. Learn and listen, the improve. Proton is a Malaysian company. It is ours. Listen to the rakyat Proton.
Assuming they will actually listen….
Its good that they finally bit the bullet and stop the hemoraging, but then again, the venture was a little suspect in the first place. Why would Proton stray away from the car business is beyond me (why they planning to jump ship and start making bikes?). This is different from buying Lotus. Sure its still loosing money but last time I checked, Lotus was still building cars…nice ones at that.
300m goes a long way to improve the already dissapointing range of cars Proton has.
This is the reality of Globalization. Whether we like it or not, its a global market and you WILL have to compete with the chinese and Koreans. If you can't even compete locally in a fair manner, how does Proton plan to exist? Yes, 20 years may not be long in the car industry, but 20 years is long enough for the rakyat. If you loose our support (as in buy your products) you DIE.
Imagine if a baby is born in 1985 into a family with a Saga, he would probably end up buying a Saga after he graduates from college when he/she starts working, not because he/she wnts to, but probably the only car he/she can afford.
Maybe some of this has sunk in. I can see Proton reverting to cut-throat pricing to lure in customers and clear inventory.
Maybe this a wake up call, but then again, we all know how comatose Proton can be when it comes to the needs of the Rakyat.
it has take a while from rebadging Mitsu cars to design (or part design) own cars. Just do a google and you can see how long other makes do such thing. Technology is not something that is easily available… may be you can do a patent search on what kind of IP MV Augusta has… the small engine category. With those kind of expertise Proton shpuld be able to do small engine easily.
However, since Perodua man is in charge, he might not want P1 to have own capability in small engine, but to let P2 do his business there (small engine category) enriching Toyota in the process.
P1 is doing the right thing according to the industrial masterplan, movin from labor intensive to knowledge intensive part of the industry. Although it take 20 yrs b4 start taking the 1st baby step.
We M'sian generally do not appreciate this kind of thing, prefering quick gains then long term gradual gain.
ahak ahak ahak………. proton want 2 diversified it bussiness ma….. but unsystematic risk govern their portfolio…….. nobody should blame each others………
it also happen when late tan sri yahya want 2 buy LOTUS, everybody not agree with his ideas….. now we know what we get from lotus……
after that tg mahalel took over, so DARE TO CHANGE bought MV( he has long term planning…..) but failed…..
now new bos. Sell AGUSTA, what next…….He dare to change?
RAMBUT SAMA HITAM TAPI IDEAS LAIN LAIN ahak ahak ahak……
aiyoh, just let the public be the major shareholder of Proton, then the public, which is WE can control the company's future! Now all of you spit your words in this place, will it change anything?????????
My fren Mutant Tomato,
Dude, look…. Its true that Proton didn't utilised the technology of MV Agusta…But you know y the've to released it….That's not their core business, their core business is more towards car..and they dun hv much time to focus on the bikes…hey man!! look i've been through the automotive line and i knw hw they works…if you dun knw nothin please shut up! and look after your stupid ass!…. Dude, they bought MV because Tun M wanted to try on others things besides cars…they can bought jet ski company too…but as we knw that Tun M really loves in motosports thus Proton can't perform in car race then they involved in superbikes race as u knw that the superbikes mkt share in M'sia very niche. Thats y Tun M & his apprentice Tg Mahaleel bought MV to show to the world that Malaysian can win in World Championship race ….
The same thing also happened to Petronas when they produce their RM 100 over thousand of FP-1….U think the bikes can sell??? Bikes cost about RM 100,000 over…. As we knw that petronas core business was petroluem and gas but when they produce the FP-1 its totally a failure project and they is no people to take care of the project…Just leaving to the engineering department… I think Proton should released all stake inside MV because they can't concentrate and Malaysians keep blaming them because they making loss…. Hey dude….Proton didn't used the ppl moneys (e.g. tax)…. Ppl paying tax for govt. dude not for proton… And Proton also have to pay tax to govt dude….Tax from the car ppl bought is used by P1 to pay to Govt… Govt takes our tax and pay for the Police & Army forces…For their salary….Y u guys wanted to blamed on P1….. Do u guys knw hw P1 was setup??? Hey dude, if there's no P1…can we b proud of being Malaysian….
YEs, i hate Toyota & Honda because y…..They killed us….Y we wanted to buy a car from outside and let our ringgit value decreased…Y we wanted to support the Nippon cars…??? Gimme a reason Mutant Tomato….R u Malaysian enough???
Now you speak to me Mutant Tomato…so do infinity and whoever support the Mutant Tomato statement…..
What the he*l if you dun knw the industry Mutant Tomato!!!! Keep your ass off k….
Wah lau eh…
New boss next move acquire P2 & learnt their quality control… toyota quality control methods. What TUV really helps for proton?? We still can't see anythings. Any new proton owner want to make some comment on your newly proton baby.
ello brader 4G93-SC
gua salute U…….. i will rank your comment as A+(my view). so patriotic…….. this is what we call good statement, but i'm affraid others will not get the points…….
another salute 2 you……..(TABIK SPRING BEB-3X)
Bravo! Proton should not have acquired MV Augusta in the first place. We have no business in them. Proton should invest into Malaysian companies that supplies parts to their vehicles. Support the Malaysian manufacturers to help improve the quality of parts needed to build Proton's, get better value and better quality.
kody said,
December 29, 2005 @ 10:01 am
Wah lau eh…
New boss next move acquire P2 & learnt their quality control… toyota quality control methods. What TUV really helps for proton?? We still can’t see anythings. Any new proton owner want to make some comment on your newly proton baby.
—-ello brader, last time we always heard that people complaints about proton quality, so they bring TUV 2 overcome this problems, take time ma……. so look at SAVVY, the quality is very good…….
4G93-SC, your logic is mind bogglingly stupid! Here's what I mean:
"YEs, i hate Toyota & Honda because y…..They killed us….Y we wanted to buy a car from outside and let our ringgit value decreased…Y we wanted to support the Nippon cars…??? Gimme a reason Mutant Tomato….R u Malaysian enough???"
————————-
Whooooaaaaa!! So if we buy foreign cars, our Ringgit will devalue? Hmmm… So that means, every country excluding Germany is devaluing their currency for buying BMW and Mercs right? Or every country except France is devaluing their currency for buying Citroen and Peugeot right?
Funny isn't it? The Govt. makes a KILLING from taxes imposed on those Jap cars… Yet, you see SO MANY people owning/driving them… e.g. the price of a brand new VIOS in Thailand? RM45000. A brand new VIOS here? RM82000. I do not "support" "Nippon" cars, but I will choose a car that gives me my money's worth. Right now, I don't see anything from Proton being of money's worth. If I am not pressed to buy a Proton, why should I? Why can't I get a Jap car or a Conti car or something for the money I am paying?
I drove a Wira for 8 years. I had a Satria before that. I am basing my comments on personal experience. The build quality is terible! The spare parts are damn expensive! Tell me why Proton headlamps are more expensive than the lamps for the Corolla SEG… The power windows fail, the rubber seals leak after awhile (Less than 5 years), the car body rattles, etc etc etc…
Here's the clincher though… I drove a Proton Persona and a Satria Gti when I was in UK… Comment? They were excellent! No complaints! So now, let me ask you, who is forking who over? Are we forking over Proton by not supporting them, or are they forking us over for giving us the "tak lulus" batch of Protons and sending the best ones overseas?
"Hey dude….Proton didn’t used the ppl moneys (e.g. tax)…. Ppl paying tax for govt. dude not for proton… And Proton also have to pay tax to govt dude….Tax from the car ppl bought is used by P1 to pay to Govt… Govt takes our tax and pay for the Police & Army forces…For their salary….Y u guys wanted to blamed on P1….. Do u guys knw hw P1 was setup??? Hey dude, if there’s no P1…can we b proud of being Malaysian…."
————————–
Ok, I've read this part about five times over and I finally have an idea what it is you're trying to say… Anyhow, this is what I gather… Proton was set up with the ambitious idea of producing our very own car. A very good idea I must say. Your logic of "We pay Proton for cars, they pay Govt. for tax, Govt. uses tax to pay civil servants" is relatively correct. However, we ALSO pay income tax, quit rent, loan repayments, assessments, service tax, government tax, import tax, etc etc etc… Those also are used by the Govt to fund projects and pay salaries. Proton is not a service. Proton is a business. The tax they pay to the Govt is far lower than the profits they make. "Hey dude, if there’s no P1…can we b proud of being Malaysian…." Are you telling me that you are incapable of seeing ANYTHING else we have besides Proton to justify your pride for Malaysia? Our world class islands and resorts? Our culture? Our infrastructure? Our advancements in the past 30 odd years? There are so many other things that make me proud to say I AM A MALAYSIAN….
Lastly, please don't make stupid statements like "R u Malaysian enough" just because I choose not to support Proton… If you're such a patriot and "Malaysian" and hate foreign products so much because they "let our ringgit value decreased," then do this:
1. Don't wear jeans, t shirts, shirts, trousers, ANY Western clothes.
2. Don't eat ANY fast foods like McDonalds, KFC, Pizza Hut, etc.
3. Don't use household items like soap and toothpaste that is made by Colgate or Proctor&Gamble, etc.
4. Don't consume Panadol or any other foreign owned medicines.
Remember, I am using YOUR logic i.e. if you do all the above, then you are letting our money go out of the country and are making foreigners rich while "our ringgit value decreased." Now, if you think my reasoning is stupid, its because YOUR logic is stupid. If you think I am right, its because YOUR logic is right…
Think about it…
Dear 4G93,
Quote: the fact is Proton still can maintained it Vehicle Registration above 5000 units per month for Klang Valley areas!!! Who said Proton can’t sell!!!!!! This means P1 can sell more than 60, 000 units per annum. Dude, this number really big……Toyota & Honda can’t beat this figures!
Agreed. PROTON can sell their cars, despite the decreasing numbers over the years.
The big picture is if you bring car prices down to realistic levels (without exorbitant tax protecting the national industry), it is doubtful PROTON would sell.
Price is a key concern for automotive buyers. It has always been said next to a house, it would be the second biggest investment/purchase by a person.
Before we get into a debate about quality, it mustbe clarified that PROTON's quality is fair. It's not Chinese quality, but then again its not BMW or Mercedes either.
But the issue of quality in PROTON is its inability to address the poor quality areas. The list always begins with power windows, and goes on. It affected even the first batch of Gen.2s.
So if you were to put the Gen.2 against the City &Vios, plus the Waja against the Civic , Sentra & Altis, and remove protectionist polices, I'd venture to guess that PROTON may suffer.
I agree with protectionist policies for PROTON in the first 10 years, but the plan should have been to alow it to compete less on price thereafter, but more on quality.
To be sure, PROTON is going in the right direction. The new plant, TUV affiliation, the CAMPRO (well, not fully CAMPROed yet), and other quality initiatives proves this.
Yet, trailing issues like incompetent vendors (despite brags to load them off), persist. And while PROTON moves both forward and backwards, other carmakers are moving ahead too.
So its a race against time for PROTON.
I feel just as patriotic as any man on this blog. But patriotism and national pride must be justified. Para-phrasing from GETAH in www.jeffooi.com; if you're an American against the Iraq invasion, national pride in the presidency would be misplaced.
I want to see PROTON succeed. I want to see PROTONs on British, American and Australian roads as many as we see them in KL.
But my wants may not become a reality if we don't check the rot.
If you say they bought MV Agusta because Tun DM wanted to try something new, heck. It's not his company. It belongs to Malaysians. You cannot run it like it was yours.
Leadership is pivotal. TO BE A GOOD LEADER, FIRST YOU MUST BE A GOOD FOLLOWER.
Ada gak untung sikit…
PROTON Holdings Bhd dianggarkan meraih keuntungan 38.2 juta euro (RM171.09 juta) daripada pelupusan pegangan ekuitinya dalam syarikat pengeluar motosikal terkemuka Itali, MV Agusta Spa kepada Gevi Spa.
Keuntungan berkenaan diperoleh selepas mengambil kira pelupusan itu yang turut membabitkan Gevi mengambil alih tanggungan Agusta berjumlah 139.44 juta euro (RM624.9 juta), ditolak pendedahan Proton dalam pengeluar motosikal itu sebanyak 101.3 juta euro RM453.5 juta).
So lets make it simple.. Proton acquired MGV agusta for the purpose of using its vendors all around europe and italy to sell proton cars..thats what they taught would work for a while.. But there's something that one calls as "prediction ".In business if u were to venture into something new u must make sure that the new thing will benefit u..and u also predict that if something were to go wong u must still be able to stand on ur feet.. So the purchase of lotus might has seemed smart because if it didnt generate profit it cud still do R& D, something that every car industry should have…
Well from the PROTON side they maybe taught buying MGV agusta was more of a branding then a profit generating venture..well imagine a company from a country like malaysia buying an italian goverment protected company.what an impact it cud bring to the branding of Proton.
So,
at the end of the day it might just be another wrong venture or investment for proton.. besides thats all part of a business cycle..
Crash,
That's called paper gain. It's only a gain because they provisioned for losses earlier. If they provided less, they'd not gain, if they provided more, they'd gain more.
No real money. Great for accounting!
i wish some of you dumbass stop using the word potong, it doesn't sound closely similar or clever. you might think it is clever because the meaning of potong but it's irritattingly stupid.
too many negative thinking in this forum..
Hey MT,
Nice comeback. I agree with everything you said and more. I also think some of the "contributors" on this blog feels they have greater patriotism than Proton itself! What a travesty!
The problem with our automotive market is that it is entirely unfair for the consumers because we are "forced" via taxes and so on to buy P1/P2 cars and yet, the other makes are doing so well. Question is, if they can, even with an unequal playing field, what's wrong with Proton? Is it just the quality? Or is there something else?
I think the rakyat is also fed-up with all the protection P1 is getting and wants to make it known. My entire family has disowned P1, with the exception of a 3yr old Waja just waiting to be retired anytime soon. Do we have any regrets? None whatsoever, except for my dad who's still driving the Waja.
—–MutantTomato said,
4G93-SC, your logic is mind bogglingly stupid! Here’s what I mean
ello brader MutantTomato.
what 4G93-SC said is true not a logic from his brain……..
if we want 2 discuss/report about proton quality, better go direct to proton ma….. i dont think that paul can handle it……
——Marmitecrab said,
December 29, 2005 @ 1:30 pm
…..The problem with our automotive market is that it is entirely unfair for the consumers because we are “forced†via taxes and so on to buy P1/P2 cars and yet, the other makes are doing so well. Question is, if they can, even with an unequal playing field, what’s wrong with Proton? Is it just the quality? Or is there something else?…..
ello brader
if u think that your PURCHASING POWER is high, better buy others than P1 N P2….. if u want quality car which is MURAH, better stay at LANGKAWI or others free duty area…….. if U think that U dont 1 2 buy P1 or P2 N no money, i think just use public transport lo……
it amazes me that these proton bashers whink they know all about automotive industry. proton existence has help SMI industries in Malaysia to grow. we need heavy industry in this country, and not just importing cars. of course, major reforms must be made now, but destructive comments are just dragging down the process. give constructive comments, not just moans!!
Dear Muthu,
I'm agreed with you too brotha'…..
thnks
I agree with MUTANT TOMATO!!!!
I'm proud to be a Malaysian but certainly not proud at all talking about having PROTON…..living like a parasit worst than a cancer….
"Proton mampu raih RM171.09j
PROTON Holdings Bhd dianggarkan meraih keuntungan 38.2 juta euro (RM171.09 juta) daripada pelupusan pegangan ekuitinya dalam syarikat pengeluar motosikal terkemuka Itali, MV Agusta Spa kepada Gevi Spa.Firma penganalisis OSK Research berkata, keuntungan berkenaan diperoleh selepas mengambil kira pelupusan itu yang turut membabitkan Gevi mengambil alih tanggungan Agusta berjumlah 139.44 juta euro (RM624.9 juta), ditolak pendedahan Proton dalam pengeluar motosikal itu sebanyak 101.3 juta euro RM453.5 juta).
“Keuntungan ini mampu menampung semula peruntukan awal berjumlah 35.9 juta euro yang dibuat (Proton bagi Agusta) dan berpotensi menghasilkan masuk kira semula (ke dalam akaunnya) berjumlah 2.3 juta euro (RM10.3 juta).
“Justeru, kesan bersih daripada pelupusan itu dilihat sebagai positif kepada Proton, di samping menghapuskan keperluan Proton untuk menanggung lebih banyak tanggungan pada masa depan berikutan ketidaktentuan kedudukan MV Agusta,†kata firma itu dalam analisisnya berhubung pelupusan itu semalam.
Proton kelmarin mengumumkan anak syarikatnya Proton Capital Sdn Bhd sudah memeterai perjanjian bagi melupuskan 57.75 peratus kepentingannya dalam Agusta kepada Gevi pada harga 1 euro (RM4.47).
Pengambilalihan oleh Gevi itu meliputi hutang Agusta yang berjumlah 106.94 juta euro (RM478 juta), di samping keperluan modal kerja sebanyak 32.5 juta (RM145.3 juta).
OSK Research berkata, pendedahan Proton dalam Agusta berjumlah 101.3 juta euro itu meliputi hutang bersih 70 juta euro dan 31.3 juta euro modal kerja yang disuntik oleh Proton Cars UK.
Katanya, sehingga suku pertama tahun kewangan semasa, Proton sudah membuat peruntukan kira-kira RM161 juta untuk Agusta.
Sementara itu, pelabur menyambut baik keputusan yang dibuat Proton itu apabila sahamnya yang didagangkan semula semalam meningkat 15 sen kepada RM6.30 berbanding RM6.15 sesaham Jumaat lalu.
Urus niaga saham pengeluar kereta nasional itu digantung kelmarin bagi pengumuman pelupusan berkenaan….."
PROUD TO BE MALAYSIAN
Antara Savvy dan Myvi
MESKIPUN Savvy bukanlah dalam kategori saiz yang sama dengan Perodua Myvi, pelancaran mereka pada tempoh hampir sama membuatkan orang ramai akan membandingkan kedua-duanya.
Savvy berada pada julat harga pertengahan antara Myvi 1.0 liter dan 1.3 liter (antara RM41,500 hingga RM51,500 seunit).
Proton Savvy ialah kereta kecil yang berorientasikan sport dan kepantasan manakala Myvi ialah kereta keluarga yang luas, cantik, sporty dan selesa untuk keluarga serta kualiti binaan dan kemasannya juga baik. Tambahan pula genetik Myvi ialah dari baka Toyota dan Daihatsu.
Myvi lebih selesa dipandu dalam bandar terutama dengan gear automatiknya, manakala Savvy untuk meredah lebuh raya dan memecut (jaga perangkap laju) pada kos rendah iaitu harga belian dan ciri penjimatan minyaknya.
Myvi yang disasarkan untuk yang bujang dan keluarga muda, terutama mereka yang upgrade dari Kancil atau Kelisa. Myvi mengketengahkan rekaan `cabin forward' menghasilkan ruang lapang dan selesa. Kerusi belakang ada ruang kaki yang luas. Bagi mengoptimumkan keselesaan dalam perjalanan jauh, kerusi depan direka mengikut kontor badan dan ruang barang yang luas. Bumbung pula lebih tinggi berbanding kereta biasa menjadikan kereta ini terasa lapang manakala rekaan pintu yang boleh dibuka hingga 80 darjah memudahkan keluar dan masuk.
Mahu pilih Savvy atau Myvi? Tepuk dada tanya selera dan lihat duit di dalam poket.
(sigh)……..
Mutant tomato wrote..
"Here’s the clincher though… I drove a Proton Persona and a Satria Gti when I was in UK… Comment? They were excellent! No complaints! So now, let me ask you, who is fscking who over? Are we forking over Proton by not supporting them, or are they forking us over for giving us the “tak lulus†batch of Protons and sending the best ones overseas"
mm…u got some points there…..
SCREW u PROTON
i damn agree….
Buying Gen2 or Vios??
For those who wanted to buy a new car…If anyone interested in any of the above models please do make a study 1st before you spend your money…
(Compared between Gen2 1.6 High Line spec. with Vios 1.5G)
As we know the price of Gen2 1.6 are much lower than Vios 1.5G
Gen2 cost around RM 58,000 to RM63,000 while Vios cost around RM80,000 above.
What can you get from Gen2 1.6 HL compared to Vios 1.5G
Gen2 1.6 HL
ENGINE MODEL S4PH
VALVE MECHANISM DOHC 16V
BORE X STROKE 76.0 mm x 88.0 mm
TOTAL DISPLACEMENT 1597 cc
FUEL SYSTEM MPI
MAXIMUM POWER
110 hp (82 kW) @ 6000 rpm
MAXIMUM TORQUE
148 Nm @ 4000 rpm
PERFORMANCE
M/T A/T
MAXIMUM SPEED 190 km/h 185 km/h
ACCELERATION 0 – 100 KM/H 10.5 sec 13.0 sec
FUEL CONSUMPTION@ 90KM/H CONSTANT 5.8 L/100 km 6.2 L/100 km
FEATURES
HIGH-LINE:
Anti-Lock Braking System (ABS)
Electronic Brake Force Distribution (EBD)
Dual SRS Front Airbags
Leather Interior
STANDARD / HIGH-LINE:
Signature Intake Grille
Headlight Cluster
Moulded Bumper
Bee Sting Antenna
Hot Hatch: Compact Body Length
Alloy Rims
Wing Mirror
Wraparound Rear Light Cluster & High-Mounted 3rd Brake Light
Chrome Finish Exhaust
Spacious Luggage Area
Space Age Centre Console
Meter Cluster with Digital Display of Average Fuel Consumption, Distance to Empty and Journey Time Tracker
Steering Wheel with Audio Control Buttons & Drive-By-Wire System
Integrated Access Key
12V Power Outlet
Power Windows
Handy Hidey Holds
Door Trim
Audio System
Seat Design
CAMPRO Engine
Anti-Corrosion
Security with CAPTOR
Vios 1.5G
ENGINE
Model 1NZ-FE
Type In-line 4-Cylinder DOHC VVT-i
Displacement cc 1,496
Bore & Stroke 75.0 x 84.7
Compression Ratio 10.5 : 1
Max. Output EEC Net 80kW (109PS) / 6,000 rpm
Max. Torque EEC Net 142Nm ( 14.5kg-m) / 4,200 rpm
TRANSMISSION
Type 4-Speed Automatic with Super ECT
DIMENSION
Tread Front 1,455 mm
Rear 1,430 mm
Kerb Weight kg 980
Fuel tank capacity litre 45
Minimum Turning Radius m 5.3
Anti-lock Braking System (ABS) With
Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD) With
Front Fog Lamps With
High-mount Stop Lamp With
Shift Lock System With
Rear Window Defogger With
(Passive Safety)
GOA Body With
SRS Airbag Driver With
Passenger With
Side Door Impact Beams With
Head Impact Protection Structure With
Whiplash Injury Lessening (WIL) Front Seats With
Seat Belt Front 3-Point ELR x 2
Rear 3-Point ELR x 2 + 2-Point NR x 1
Adjustable Seatbelt Anchor With
Collapsible Steering Column With
Safe Brake Pedal With
Result, Gen2 performs better than the Vios.
Fuel consumptions Gen 2 1.6 HL Vios 1.5G
Full tank 40 L = RM65 45 L = RM73
RM 0.095 per/km RM 0.13 per/km
Engine CAMPRO VVT-i
(CAM Profiling System) (Variable Valve Timing)
+ intelligence
Which one better?
Both are in the same function
VVT-i
By optimising the timing of the valves, the engine promises performance whether you are accelerating, cruising or overtaking. The engine delivers solid torque through low-to medium rpms.
CAMPRO
The Campro engine is the first automotive engine ever developed by a Malaysian automotive giant, Proton. The name Campro is short for Cam Profile. This engine powers the Proton Gen-2 as well as Proton's future models. The Campro engine is aimed to show Proton's ability to make their own engines that produces good power output and meets newer emission standards
Basic DOHC engine
The basic Campro engine coded as S4PH is a basic DOHC 16-valve 1.6 L engine that produces 110 bhp (82 kW) @ 6,500 rpm of horsepower and 148 N-m of torque. This is the engine that powers the Proton Gen-2. The S4PH engine features the variable inlet manifold technology. Besides of this 1.6 L engine, Proton also plans to produce the 1.3 L version of the Campro engine.
Even though the engine seems to be quite powerful at higher revs, its performance is reportedly sluggish at lower revs and this is proven by driving the Gen-2 uphills where drivers who drive the manual transmission version have to shift a lot between 2nd gear and 3rd gear. This is due to its poor low-end torque especially between 3,000 ~ 3,5000 rpm where the turque decreases slightly before picking up back to the maximum torque at 4,000 rpm. Proton should remap the ECU to give more torque at low revs.
Before the engine is ready to be installed in the Gen-2 cars, Proton installed the engine in the Waja specialized for on-road tests.
Currently the Campro engines installed in the Gen-2 has none of the promised cam-profiling and variable inlet manifold technologies. No date nor any information has been known as to when Proton will equip its models with the promised full-spec engine, if ever.
Campro CPS engine
In addition to the basic DOHC engine, Proton developed its own variable valve timing technology that works similar with other variable valve technologies such as Honda VTEC and Toyota VVTi, named as CPS (Cam Profile Switching) technology. The usage of CPS tehnology will raise the maximum power up to about 127 bhp and will improve the low-end torque to its maximum value which will maintain until about 5,000 rpm. The technology is said to be applied to newer Gen-2s and future models starting from the end of 2005, but currently the CPS technology is still under testing.
Campro GDI engine
Recently, Proton is developing their own gasoline direct injection version of Campro engines which will be used in the future. Currently, the Campro GDI engine is still under research and development, therefore very little information available for the Campro GDI engine.
Supercharged Campro engine
Recently, Proton has announced to collaborate with Kleemann, the company that supplies superchargers for Mercedes Benz Kompressor models for the coming Proton Satria replacement model. Little is known about the engine, but the engine is rumored as a 1.8L engine equipped with a supercharger supplied by Kleemann.
Dear Buyers, as the details delivers to you….Hopes you guys can make your decision for buying your new car…
tHANKs
My buddy Mutant Tomato,
Now you can see the development of Proton compared to others….
Mutant tomato wrote..
“Here’s the clincher though… I drove a Proton Persona and a Satria Gti when I was in UK… Comment? They were excellent! No complaints! So now, let me ask you, who is fscking who over? Are we forking over Proton by not supporting them, or are they forking us over for giving us the “tak lulus†batch of Protons and sending the best ones overseasâ€
—————————————————————-
Yes its true that the UK specs are much better but P1 have to suit according with their weather… Other CBU cars also like that too ma…..For example the one CKD in Thailand and Indonesia (Toyota) not all that car 100% perfect that been brought in here….
What technology can u get from others CBU cars compared you can gained from P1. Can u get an ABS, EBD & Dual Air Bag for just RM 60k??? Hw bout the interior design??? Can you get a leather with semi bucket seat with just that amount??? What else u expect from P1 to do…? Do you realize their margin and profit for giving all the technology to us…..To make Malaysian feel the technology likes other CBU cars (Merc, BMW and Volvo….) We can't expect the $$$ of P1 to be super lower likes other CBU cars in their home country….Because Merc, BMW etc started their automotive industry since WW1… Ours in 1980s….What else do u expect…?? Look, at least we can proud of P1 thats we have the CAMPRO (own design engine) compare to Koreans car which still using Japanese engine and FORD engine.
"I'M A PROTON OWNER"
"LOVE TO BE PROTON"
"PROUD TO BE MALAYSIAN"
aiyoh why never write about your satria anymore, paul?
Pretty obvious proton kena con already lah! What can we do if we don't have sharp business man in proton?????
ello brader 4G93-SC
gua tabik spring 10X lagi sekali…… ahak ahak ahak….. if others think 4G93-SC merepek or use logic, better cq the manual(savvy, G2, VIOS, myvvi). all the statement is true(2nd da motion)……
——–Mutant tomato wrote..
“Here’s the clincher though… I drove a Proton Persona and a Satria Gti when I was in UK… Comment? They were excellent! No complaints! So now, let me ask you, who is fscking who over? Are we forking over Proton by not supporting them, or are they forking us over for giving us the “tak lulus†batch of Protons and sending the best ones overseasâ€
i've been told that all proton either local or Xport R the same quality……(inform by 1 of analyst from smithzain securities-sub merill lynch).
PPPPPPPPPPPRRRRRRRROOOUUUDDDDDDDDD 2 BBBBBBB MMAAAALLLLAAAYYYYYYYSSSSSSSSSIIIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNN
Gen-2 vs Vios ?
malulah nak cerita.
Just see when new chief report to work next week ….
Dear 4G93-SC,
R u sure Gen 2 Fuel consumption is RM0.095/KM???? Better than Kancil???
I think RM 0.15-0.17/KM is more like it……BTW, Vios fc is RM0.10-0.11/KM.
Proton (company)
Proton, short for Perusahaan Otomobil Nasional (Malay for National Automobile Enterprise), is a Malaysian car manufacturer initiated in 1983 by Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad. The old plant is located in Shah Alam and the new plant is located in Tanjung Malim, Perak. The architectural design on the building facade depicts an image of a gull wing. The Proton Tanjung Malim Plant (PTMP) is part of a mixed delelopment town project, Proton City where the PTMP makes 30% of Proton City.
Based on technology and parts from Mitsubishi, production of the first model, the Saga, began in 1985. Until the end of the 1990s, the car's logo featured the crest from Malaysia's coat of arms, featuring a crescent and a fourteen-pointed star. The new Proton logo features stylized tiger head.
Initially the components of the car were entirely made of parts manufactured by Mitsubishi but slowly local Malaysian parts were being used as technology is transferred and skills are gained. With the acquisition of Lotus technologies in 1996 from Bugatti, Proton has gained an additional source of technologically challenging parts.
By 2002 Proton held a market share of over 60 per cent in Malaysia, which was reduced to barely 30 percent by 2005 and is expected to reduce further in 2008 when AFTA mandates reduce import tariffs to a maximum of 5%. Proton cars are exported to the United Kingdom and Australia and is aggressively marketing their cars in several other countries including the Middle East.
In December 2004, Proton purchased a majority share in MV Agusta of Italy. MV Agusta is the manufacturer of MV Agusta, Husqvarna, and Cagiva motorcycles. A year later, Proton sold off its 57.7% share in MV Agusta to another Italian company for a token of one Euro. MV Agusta suffered heavy debt and the selling enabled Proton to write off the losses off its book.
Proton is listed on the Bursa Malaysia.
History
The first Proton car model, Proton Saga, rolled off the assembly line in Shah Alam in September 1985. The 100,000th Proton Saga was produced in January 1989. [1]
In 1993, a model called Proton Wira was introduced based on the Mitsubishi Lancer/Colt. More than 220,000 units were sold between 1996 and 1998 [2]. Proton Perdana based on the Mitsubishi Eterna, was first produced in 1994, intended for higher end market. Proton Waja is the first car model designed internally by Proton. It is called Proton Impian in the UK market. The second generation, replacement model for Proton Wira is called Proton Gen-2. It was launched on February 8, 2004. On June 8, 2005 Proton introduced a 1,200 cc, 5-door compact car called the Proton Savvy.
In 1996, Proton bought Lotus Cars.
In October 2004, Proton announced that an understanding has been reached with Volkswagen AG of Germany to establish a strategic partnership. Under the tie-up, the two carmakers are expected to exploit each other's strengths. Proton would gain access to Volkswagen's superior technical capabilities and technology. In return, Volkswagen may utilise Proton's spare capacity at the latter's Tanjung Malim to assemble cars for export to the South-East Asian market, where the German auto giant has a weak presence. Furthermore, the tie-up may see Volkswagen assist in distributing Proton vehicles in China while Proton does the same for Volkswagen in South-East Asia. Nonetheless, at this juncture both parties have yet to announce detailed and concrete plans for the partnership.
Exports
The company first began exports to other right hand drive markets like New Zealand in the late 1980s, but it was much more successful in the United Kingdom where it was introduced in 1989. Advertised with the slogan Japanese Technology, Malaysian Style, Proton cars proved popular among budget-oriented motorists, and like Japanese and South Korean models before them, led to the demise of Eastern-bloc manufacturers such as Lada and Zastava. By the 1990s, Proton had already withdrawn from the New Zealand market after offering only the Saga four-door and Persona five-door models.
Proton also exports cars to countries in Southeast Asia and Australia, and now produces models in left hand drive, for export to continental Europe. An entry into the US market was considered, following Hyundai's successful launch in the mid 1980s. However, exports to the US never materialised, as the cars required hundreds of changes to meet American safety standards.
It is a company that can be used as a case study for rent seeking as tariffs on imported cars rose almost immediately following the formation of Proton. Also AFTA agreements on relaxing entries into the ASEAN marketspace had exemptions specifically for Proton. The Malaysian government gained a three year exemption for Proton from 2002 to 2005 where entry tariffs had to be lowered to 5%
4G93-SC, wow you're excellent!
i'm some kind of on the same line of opinion, maybe a bit moderate…
i dont think its wrong for people to buy japs, conti, korean or even china, as long as they pay 10 times or more taxes than me who buy protons…keep on buying, i need your taxes money to build road in my kampong, feed the poors etc…
please big G, keep on taxing 'em…taxes 'em hard!
secondly, why got people who so sakit hati at proton, dont like protons, dont buy it, buy foreign, and contribute handsomely to big G taxes fund…hehehe…
Oit…gen.2 aku mmg murah…spec on paper is the best…as PCK says…best in Singapore JB and bintan island…but when you own one…i have spent a lot of my annual leave days @ the SC. U imagine 8 mths car tukar power window motor and console sampai 3 times?…no this is not horror story like Emily Rose exorcism but i think my car is also possesses by 5 devils from hell. Heres why, many falling plastics, engine problems, countless wierd noises, failing captor, meter rosak..it seems very2 possessed and even the Pope Benedict can't perform a successful excorcism on my car…so think carefully….what you see is not what u get…..sometimes, it makes u believe in those "invisible powers"
wow never expected to see such heated forums just about proton.
just ask xzibit to pimp your proton at west cost customs and see how envy those proton basher would be … heheh
expecto protoning…
The Campro engine is the first automotive engine ever developed by a Malaysian automotive giant, Proton. The name Campro is short for Cam Profile
….
ayoyo…lu kena tipu la…campro is actually from modified mitsubishi engine lah…auto transmission also mitsubishi
the government using rakyat taxpayer money to experiment with their stupid business ventures..result? rugi berbillion, tapi kroni semua laughing all the way to the bank, duit semua masuk poket, while kita yg bodoh ingat betul2 enjin buatan sindili, support potong..campro engine pun talak itu campro feature
bangun lah wooi
I just wonder why did they buy it in the first place?MV Agusta is already 'nyawa-nyawa ikan'.that money is better spent to improve Proton cars.70 million euros is a lot of money.
just my 2 cents worth.
cheerios
My fren See Fat….
Are you sure that Campro is modified engine frm MMC? How sure are you? Can you tell me… Ehehhee you dun knw rite….
Campro is operates likes V-Tec and also VVT-i…features are same brader…Only hw does the engine works that differentiate them…. FYI, Campro operates from the detection of cam not the Valve….Cam is located on top of engine while valve…… so u can knw and think that which one better Valve or Cam??? And the Campro is really works whereas it has the CPS (Cam Profiling System) This is the technology from the owning of Lotus and P1 did it….Big applause!
See Fat, if u were saying that Campro is modified engine frm MMC, y in year 1990s we didn't make the Campro engine as u saying it originate frm the MMC engine… y this engine produce after the owning of Lotus…..?? Can u justify it See Fat?? u should try the Gen2 1st then u can say it really a CAMPRO engine….. if u said Campro frm MMC modified engine……y the next SRM can be supercharge by Kleeman…. Hv u ever heard that MMC engine been tuned by europe technology likes Brabus, Kleeman or even Hamman…? MMC hv their on technology…they've got the MIVEC… If Campro was frm MMC technology, y it didn't used the 'valve'?? It just using the cam….as we knw most of japanese car using 'valve'…..
Please dun make any bulls**t statement if u dun knw bout it…….
aku heran sangat kadang-kadang tengokk hangpa ni bergaduh… dah tak dak kerja lain ka?
yg sokong aku tanak sentuh sangat sebab pada aku tak salah kalau kita ingin melihat orang lain berjaya (lawan kepada dengki), tapi hat yang tak sokong nih yang aku heran sangat ni. bersungguh-sungguh kutuk buatan negara sendiri, cari fakta sana-sini, benci habih2 dah… dah tu pulak p sokong produk negara lain walaupun lebih kurang ja kualiti dia..
awatnya, depa bagi hangpa komisen ka kalau rakyat2 kat malaysia beli keta depa ataupun x beli kereta kita. berapa banyak komisen hangpa dapat? kalau banyak aku nak jugak join. x payah susah kerja…. kerja kutuk proton 24×7 macam 7e pulak, pastu p kutip komisyen… masyukkkk…. tapi aku bukan jenih tu..
mintak maaf paul, aku nih selalu datang blog hang nih, tp skang ni aduhai, macam yang hang kata tu laa.. penuh dgn cacian dan kutukan camni yang buat aku lemah. apa salahnya kalau sokong industri sendiri, kalau dah tak suka sangat, tak salahkan suarakan ketidakpuasan hati tu.. tp aku rasa hangpa ni dah lebih dari tu. cukuplah setakat disini, kalau aku tulih panjang2 pun bukan hangpa baca sangat. hangpa p cari idea mengutuk lagi adala.
p/s: 1. kenyataan komisen tidak termasuk kepada mereka2 yang berkerja sebagai jurujual :-p
2. kalau ada yang nak mengutuk aku pulak, aku reda dan aku faham.
Notice how desperate that PROTON defender with the engine code as his name is? Just take a look at what he has PASTED on the blog, in terms of features. Air intake grille? BeeSting Antennae? Door Trim? Oh please… come on!
Get real you so-called car industry expert. Your English is crappy, your debate is pointless, and you will just become obsolete like your own engine code!
TM
Gen2 1.6 HL
FEATURES
HIGH-LINE:
Anti-Lock Braking System (ABS)
Electronic Brake Force Distribution (EBD)
Dual SRS Front Airbags
Leather Interior
STANDARD / HIGH-LINE:
Signature Intake Grille (VIOS HAS A GRILLE)
Headlight Cluster (JEADLAMPS TOO)
Moulded Bumper (EVER HEARD OF AN UNMOULDED BUMPER?)
Bee Sting Antenna (WOW… WHAT A FEATURE!!!!!!!!!!)
Hot Hatch: Compact Body Length (HUH?)
Alloy Rims (EVERY DAMN CAR WORTH THE METAL ITS MADE OF HAS THIS!)
Wing Mirror (WOW, REALLY?)
Wraparound Rear Light Cluster & High-Mounted 3rd Brake Light (OOHHH… THIS IS TOO MUCH!)
Chrome Finish Exhaust (WOW! THAT MUST'VE COST A BOMB!)
Spacious Luggage Area (HMMM…!)
Space Age Centre Console (SPACE AGE? PUH LEESE!)
Meter Cluster with Digital Display of Average Fuel Consumption, Distance to Empty and Journey Time Tracker (THAT'S A RARE FEATURE MAN!)
Steering Wheel with Audio Control Buttons & Drive-By-Wire System (DAMN!)
Integrated Access Key (IT MAY WORK!)
12V Power Outlet (REALLY?)
Power Windows (HERE WE GO…)
Handy Hidey Holds (NOTE: NO GLOVEBOX. MAYBE BECAUSE MALAYSIANS DON'T USE GLOVES))
Door Trim (OTHER CARS DON'T OFFER THIS, YOU SEE)
Audio System (WITH TINY BITTONS)
Seat Design (OTHER CARMAKERS JUST SUMP IN A SEAT. THEY DON'T DESIGN)
CAMPRO Engine (WATCG THAT CLAIM!)
Anti-Corrosion (THIS IS A FEATURE ONLY PROTON OFFERS!)
Security with CAPTOR (WOW WOW WOW!)
Vios 1.5G
Anti-lock Braking System (ABS) With
Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD) With
Front Fog Lamps With
High-mount Stop Lamp With
Shift Lock System With
Rear Window Defogger With
(Passive Safety)
GOA Body With
SRS Airbag Driver With
Passenger With
Side Door Impact Beams With
Head Impact Protection Structure With
Whiplash Injury Lessening (WIL) Front Seats With
Seat Belt Front 3-Point ELR x 2
Rear 3-Point ELR x 2 + 2-Point NR x 1
Adjustable Seatbelt Anchor With
Collapsible Steering Column With
Safe Brake Pedal With
Allo brader 4G93-SC, mintak maap pasal nak tegur…aku jumpa document arituh…prove proton beli blueprint engine mivec v1.0 dari member aku kat proton…so mmg ada la sket2 diorang cilok kat MMC….nanti aku forwardkan dianya journal automotive tuh…..bukannya Campro tak elok..best gak aku pakai arituh…tapi yg sedeynya budak proton tuh pasang spark plug silap…pastu tak pasal2 dia terkeluar tgh jalan…ada lagi akunya resit service arituh….tapi aku takderla nak kecoh2 sangat…adala salah silap bebudak kat proton ni…kat honda ke toyota ke sama jer tapi kurang sket la…paham2 jer la boss diorang…susah nak bagi can, nak rilek sket pun susah
if u check, the lancer 1.6l using same engine as the waja 1.6…so lu cakap mitsubishi bili itu enjin dali potong ka? woi pigi baca buku dulu la sebelum lu mali sini cakap besar…auto transmission pun guna dali mitsu, lu ingat potong TAU buat auto transmission ka hahahhaa..waja 1.8 enjin pun culi dali perancis la…butan malaysia? semu tipu punya!!
wtf …..
paul pls post new story, if not this comment thingy will grew up to 10,000 messages/story.
obviously stupid brain can only do stupid things…
not much i can comment on techical debate like this… mana satu betul pon aku tak tau!!! ke semua main fabricate cerita???
im confius!!?? nobody is spared, proton supporter or proton basher semua kena hentam…!
malaysian has became a more vicious? envy? dislike? semua ada…
so we know wht to look forward in 2006.
cheers.
wei see fat…
bile masa gue ckp MMC beli enjin dari proton..Lu bodoh ka…Lu xdak baca sekolah….Mmg lar enjin Waja 1.6 sama dgn Lancer baru…..Lu x yah bgtau wa sulah tahu…..
at least Proton ada belajar mcm mana mau develop enjin sendiri..ADA USAHA….lu ada faham ka…. At least our proton buat enjin dengan kerjasama expert n takder amik itu enjin sebijik2….wei see fat i ingat lu tak tahu sgt nk compare antara enjin yg totally imitate ngan enjin yg develop berdasarkan technology…. Wei balik baca buku la!!!
"if u check, the lancer 1.6l using same engine as the waja 1.6…so lu cakap mitsubishi bili itu enjin dali potong ka? woi pigi baca buku dulu la sebelum lu mali sini cakap besar…auto transmission pun guna dali mitsu, lu ingat potong TAU buat auto transmission ka hahahhaa..waja 1.8 enjin pun culi dali perancis la…butan malaysia? semu tipu punya!! "
__________________________________________________________________________> ini budak see fat sulah tak tahu nk cakap aper2 lagi..he has no idea…..apa yg si see fat ni nak cakapkan nie……HarrharrrrrHarrrr :D
and i thought the current CAMPRO (S4PH) in gen2 is called maCAM PRO, whereby No Action Talk Only (NATO)…is there any cam adjustment technology in the current CAMPRO? I guess we all know the answer lah, NATO
ayamas, my sympathy with u, i do have the same fun with my waja, tukar radiator 3 biji within 3 years. now that they have fixed it after 3 days in SC, bcos they found out there was a manufacturing defect, i.e. the pancut air punya preasure mekanisme is not betul, i don even know what was that. alarm bunyi sendiri tanpa sebarang reasons. pergi SC, no problem, semasa kat rumah, bunyi sendiri, hantar sungai besi, check tarak problem, until i insist tukar now no problem. Power window? kalu u duduk sebelah i, lupakanlah udara segar dari luar, sebab saya kasi gantung itu cermin pakai dawai. if i sampai toll, i buka pintu. want to tukar, RM300+ lah, mana mampu?
how i wish i have a gigantic vehicle assembly plant in malaysia, then VW will come to me for JV, i can then drive fat-ton, pa-sar, to-rek, bo-lo (no brain in hokkien), cough (golf), jet-da, etc. Nice car…VW….come to me…FSI….
people can have FSI, talking about 6 speed automatik, kita savvy amg sudah heboh…campro…buatan sendiri…
well, u may ask y i buy proton, i can tell u this, i need a car for my family and i can only afford about RM65k, what choice do i have? u may say kancil, i say u mad ah…i have a sizable family lah.
good debate..the bottomline..do u guys support proton??i do…
PROTON MILESTONE:
1985 – 1993 BIRTH OF SAGA
– PROTON KNIGHT
– ISWARA
– WIRA
1994 BIRTH OF SATRIA
1996 – WIRA AEROBACK
– TIARA
– PUTRA
1997 -WIRA AEROBACK 1.3
– PUTRA AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
1998 – BIRTH OF SATRIA GTI
2000 – BIRTH OF WAJA
2001 – JUARA
2002 – ARENA & T BIKES
2003 – NEW ISWARA LM-LL (ENHANCEMENT MODEL)
2004 – GEN2
– SATRIA R3
2005 – SAVVY
– WAJA CHANCELLOR
2006 SOON TO BE LAUNCHED….THE NEW SATRIA (SRM)
SEE FAT & Mutant Tomato…..Pls look or read the history and the milestone of Proton….Without a high spirit and passion, Proton might not achieve all the above..but they've prove it to the nation and as you knw by that time many country are jealous with our achievement in automotive industry…. For example, Thailand and Indonesia….This two country are really big but they can't manufactured their owned car….They just asembly it from Toyota…..WE should proud to be Malysian because with every biggest country likes US, Japan, UK, France and German are monitor on us and they are trying sumthin to block our national car market…Thats y they're waiting for the AFTA been fully implement here so that they dun pay any tax….This will killing our national car….Imagine if everybody buying the imported cars and neglect our Proton…..Totally Malysia will load with a lots of imported cars and The Malysian are killing our prestigous marque, Proton…… If they can killed our Proton, they're also can kill F1 Circuit and KLCC….. I'm also duno why u guys dun like Proton..Iz it because of ur experience….
Nw the fuel will rise nxt year, so do the price of cars and the interest rate…if we still keep blaming n bashing on our national car maker, Proton…..How do we wanna see the improvement?? If Proton do some improvement but u guys still bashing them, how r u guys wanna notify the changes & improvement that Proton did……Please used your head before make any unuseful statement….
my proud kilometer rock (someone else's mile stone)
1980 – 100meter in 50 seconds
1990 – 100meter in 40 seconds
2000 – 100meter in 30 seconds
2008 – 100meter in 20 seconds
with high spirit and passion, i strongly believe that i can mount a serious challenge on the gold medal in the olympics 100 meter sprint competition.
why not? the beijing organiser will make sure i start at least 80 meters ahead of all my competitors, sound familiar? think of the crazy tax…
i strongly urge our people stop buying sony, sharp, haier, hitachi, sanyo, elba, electrolux, braun, samsung, lg, toshiba, siemen and all the foreign brands and support our locally made. the question is : can u? please be true to yourself. What happen to MEC, anyoen remember ?
my proud kilometer rock (someone else's mile stone)
1980 – 100meter in 50 seconds
1990 – 100meter in 40 seconds
2000 – 100meter in 30 seconds
2008 – 100meter in 20 seconds
with high spirit and passion, i strongly believe that i can mount a serious challenge on the gold medal in the olympics 100 meter sprint competition.
why not? the beijing organiser will make sure i start at least 80 meters ahead of all my competitors, sound familiar? think of the crazy tax…
sorry, posted twice…can't bash TMNet here, it's my fault. my sincere apology.
Well, something has got to be done somehow. Proton's decision of buying over MV Agusta still leaves a big question mark to me. But assuming it will bring more losses to Proton not even 1 year after they took it over is unjustified to me (I hope this is the correct word). How could anyone turn over a losing company to a profiting one in 12 month? How long does Renault take to turn over Nissan into what they are now. Oh, don't bite me. I'm just asking because I don't know.
Btw, where the hell that someone get idea that Chancellor was a collabration between Proton and MV Agusta? OH, btw, I'm no basher but I don't give a fsck with Waja Chancellor. Bloody obsolute design. And bloody stupid head(s) that give this project a GO!
MutantTomato: About the Air Asia and Dato' Tony Fernandez thing…have you ever heard that Asia Asia was actually own by Vincent Tan? Tony as the nominee aka frontman and Pahamin for his network. Can anyone verify this rumours?
Happy New Year everyone!
hello 4G93, u are the most patriotic here i salute u. but in terms of cars u are extremely naive or can i say rubbish? u said other people dont know but u definitely dont know urself.
first about mv agusta, why proton bought mv agusta. its not about 'core or non core' crap u said. its totally for their capabilities: SMALL ENGINE AND DESIGNING. Tengku mahaleel said himself after acquiring mv agusta that now we have lotus, we have British engineering, we add mv agusta for ITALIAN DESIGNING. not bcoz we want to sell bikes. waja is nice. gen2 is ok (until europeans saw it n said: out of fashion, 5 years late), savvy is bad, n now chancellor (for RM138000) is HORRID. if u said those are nice u absolutely naive or have bad sense of taste.
next is about the cars. im totally with mutant tomato on this. proton export models are awesome but for domestic market are rubbish. ive riden both i have experience i know. well 4G93, u think GEN 2 HLINE u posted are awesome. yeah front got DUAL SRS AIRBAGS (for HLine). wait until u see UK Spec Gen2 Hline. Got 6 AIRBAGS! n even the low end models have airbags and ABS. proton think well mat salleh lives are more valuble than us malaysians, we gave them extra airbags.. PROTON= "kera dihutan disusukan anak di rumah mati kelaparan"
btw, i hv a gen2, its 20 month old. and it the worst proton car ive ever had. i had saga n iswara before, now i have a wira, waja n gen2. ive received the gen2 in april last year. less than 24 hours at home one power window broke already. immediately went to proton edar to repair it. waited 6 hours to repair. why? its so new that time no one knew how to fix it, had to wait someone who knew to come. n now after 20 months? power window broke (AGAIN), rear window leak, aircond noisy n not cold enough, doors hard to open, the 'CAMPRO' engine most dissapointing thou. crawling uphill, squeal downhill. got beaten many times on way up to cameron or genting highlands. what?? 110 hp? shit. ive dynoed my gen2. 100.8hp only. fuel economy? my wira is better. those specs are purely marketing. u know buying a proton is just like playing russian roulette. my waja had no problem what so ever n my gen2 makes me sick. gen2 better than japanese? i dont think so. not even korean.
4G93, if u want to talk about patriotism, it is not here. go some were else, malaysiakini, yahoo forum negaraku, melayuboleh, melayuforever etc. here people talk about car consumerism. u cant mix patriotism with consumerism. its people like u who spoilt proton. ie: must hire local vendor, bad quality (patriotic and nationalistic) or hire foreign vendor, better quality (consumer-minded). proton must stand on purely business to excel. not while carrying patriotic national service (buy from local vendors, use malaysian design, produce only cheap cars, hire local personnel etc) which hold back proton. learn from the telco industries (celcom,maxis,digi). purely business, healthy competition, no political obligation. sapa untung? us consumer. cheap service, better quality, high degree of innovation.
4G93, stop posting ur wikipedia facts. we here already know. u should learn it urself. dont be 'bodoh sombong', say other people dont know, u urself dunno also.dont be 'unnecessarily patriotic', u'll spoil proton. we know u are proud with proton. its like u proud of having $1 while the others have $1mil. get equal or better, proton. than we can really be proud
finally, we bashing proton not becoz we arent patriotic. all my cars are proton. we bash proton becoz proton doesnt want to be better. repeatedly made bad desicions, repeatedly produce ugly models, repeatedly power window failed. we are not 'katak bawah tempurung' u know. weve seen better cars, better companies. we compare, we saw proton is still not good enough, n we want proton to be just successful.
BTW, 4G93 is a japanese engine right? very patriotic arent u?
MV Agusta..Italian aint it? Sigh.
P1= no quality, tons of bad experiences.
Due to their production i rather invest in a jappo car.
If u know wat INVESTMENT means.
Don't like p1 doens't mean dont love malaysian lah.
U know lah the attitude, if product a good car, sure to support.
Buta-buta buy P1? Earning money is not easy lah.
the problem is all boils down to the proton's inefficient management. initially, proton wanted to incorporate the italian motorcycle powerhouse's design & expertise into their car design. apparently, proton's trims & finishes were still worse than a kereta lembu.
it made me wonder, proton can't even manage itself, why on earth would it still want to take over a mv agusta.
if proton continue to make this kind bad investment, i think it'll go down the drain faster than i can say "POTONG SOTONG".
banyak kereta POTONG dijalan re-badge kat belakang kereta dengan logo Eterna lah,MMC lah, IVTEC pun ada .tak tau malu.
Tapi tak pernah nampak pun Toyota ka, Honda ka ditampal logo Proton, Gen2.
Apasal????
Cuba fikir to all proton defender.
He he hehe
comment to say. When ppl bash proton they are meaning that why should we suffer under high price, low quality, bad services and being patriot and the damn company still made losses and cant impact into international market.
Being patriot is not being foolish. Why nobody bash peroduo. Because they produce reasonable quality cars.
Would anyone being patriot and pay goverment loan with your wealth (beside taxes)? I dont think so. For those crying patriot all this time can really shut up and think. all people here love the country BUT do not mean how it is being run (by the goverment). Being patriot is not mean BLIND and accept thing is like that. We should POINT OUT when things are not right.
So do you think when we crticise someone mean we hate them? Who out of us never criticise our own parents when they do things we dont see eyes to eyes? Do this mean that we dont love them? So when ppl criticise proton is not we dont like them.
Ppl dont like them is because we all faces high car prices, high repayment loans, high maintainence in cars due to Poroton and it still fail us so much. Ppl criticise is not because of hate, it is because of disappointment.
All malaysian want see Proton soar HIGH but ppl just feel that unless there are SERIOUS changes, proton will just be like MAS (restructure fews back but still with such result today). Ppl are letting their frustration out as they are very disappointed with Proton. look at Perduo (also NATIONAL CAR), so far anyone critise them?
China also new in car industry, more competition and they move into international market faster than Malaysia. The problem with proton is one as the many problem with malaysian firm (control by goverment), is too many corruption and misuse of funds leading their downfall.
overall you might say it help SMI supply to them the goods. Who actually earn? the SMI or the proton directors related companies? ask yourselves again?
So can ppl support proton stop saying that ppl bashes proton are not being patriot or not malaysian. That is a naive thinking and misuse the true meaning of the word.
yeah i agree on proton's insignificant managemant. but i do thing buying mv agusta was brilliant at first. u know for the designing purpose. but then just 1 yr later they sell it bcoz of proton's loss, which is becoz they are pumping money into mv agusta n dont get any return. stupid management. just 1 year invest in a debt laden company already expect return??
some might say buying mv agusta was bad because they took together mv agusta's debt n proton got drag together. it is true. but so does lotus before. proton bought lotus which was also in debt and losing money. but then proton gained expertise n technology from lotus. however proton n lotus are different entity. proton manage proton, lotus manage lotus. lotus still losing money today. but at least we gain a lot.
proton have to many kepala. directors, advisors, politicians. all ego. all pening. how to make wise desicion?
btw, for those who didnt know, mv agusta is like a ferrari for bikes. recently mv agusta F4 1000 tamburini (RM 161,000) was awarded "worlds best motocycle" in the US.
very dissapointed proton sold mv agusta. just imagine what can proton cld have gain from it. sigh..
Dear Zie,
Ramai gak yg pakai proton tak kecoh pun nak tampal Mivec, IVTEC, MMC, Sparco, Recaro ngan adik beradik yg lain tu. Dah nama pakai proton tak perlu nak pretend mcm bawak Toyota ke Honda ke. Lebih baik sibukkan diri cari duit supaya boleh beli yg original dr pikir kenapa org tu tampal pelekat2. Tak ke mana perginya kalu nak pikir ttg org lain je.
——Jake said,
December 29, 2005 @ 5:02 pm
4G93-SC, wow you’re excellent!
i’m some kind of on the same line of opinion, maybe a bit moderate…
i dont think its wrong for people to buy japs, conti, korean or even china, as long as they pay 10 times or more taxes than me who buy protons…keep on buying, i need your taxes money to build road in my kampong, feed the poors etc…
please big G, keep on taxing ‘em…taxes ‘em hard!
secondly, why got people who so sakit hati at proton, dont like protons, dont buy it, buy foreign, and contribute handsomely to big G taxes fund…hehehe…
ello brader agree with both oof U……..
ello brader toolan
if U want to talk about QUALITY of proton car better go direct to PROTON or make a report at PERSATUAN PENGGUNA or call TV3 la….
ello brader zie
uU cakap ada betul….. kat penang pun ramai gak buat cam tu….. ada yg lawak gila lak, KANCIL letak sticker MITSUBISHI ahak ahak ahak ahak ahak tak dapat beli EVO, napat kancil EVO pun leh gak…… AHAK AHAK AHAK
—-toolan said,
December 30, 2005 @ 3:14 am
yeah i agree on proton’s insignificant managemant. but i do thing buying mv agusta was brilliant at first. u know for the designing purpose. but then just 1 yr later they sell it bcoz of proton’s loss, which is becoz they are pumping money into mv agusta n dont get any return. stupid management. just 1 year invest in a debt laden company already expect return??
ello brader
agree with U, the main problem is with the management…….. hope NEW MD will play important roll 2 bring glory 2 proton…….
ello guys……
this R the stories about MVA N P1
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/Article_Page.aspx?A… http://www.mcnews.com.au/NewsArchives/2004/mv_pro… http://www.rubbermag.com/news/0512/051227_06n.htm… http://mvagusta.net/newsarticle/31#comments
Dear 4G93,
I think you just got trounced by toolan. I also think you are trying too hard. Forget it, because there are many Proton owners here who have already made up their minds. You're fighting an uphill battle.
Honestly, I don't even know why you bother spending sooo much time giving us the specs? I and many others I'm sure, wouldn't even bother to read it because weall know the Gen.2 is crap. How we know? When 2 or more people have nothing nice to say about it, you should know something is definitely wrong about it.
You're also associating patriotism with supporting Proton. What about Perodua? They are also a national car manufacturer and plenty of people support them. So it's not really about patriotism per se. It's about supporting Proton. My question is, why? Why are you so supportive of a company that is all out to make maximum profits from you without bothering to improve their quality or safety?
You need to take a long, hard look at what you're fighting for and decide if it's worth it. If not, then people like MutantTomato, toolan and myself will keep on wasting our time writing to you.
Dear Marmitecrab,
Thnks for ur concern…well as i said P1 is purely Malaysian Car manufactured.. thats doesn't means i'm supporting the P1..Yes, P2 is the 2nd natinal car but…can u said P2 is truly malaysian car manufacturer??? Do they make their owned design or do they create their owned engine…Y all the design frm P2 are same as Daihatsu and Toyota??? P2 is a cloning car manufacturer so i dun called it as a national car manufacturer…. sorry for the statement…likes Naza also..i also dun called it a national car manufacturer….
Do u guys agreed with me..? Only P1 is doing their best and not trying to copy frm anybody else to produce our national car….Besides the Saga n Wira… FYI, MMC and japanese has stolen on our ppl design…..Thats y they said our design is old…FYI, when we collaborate with MMC, there hv a lots of barriers in decision making for the mgt of P1….when we are not with MMC, from there we do lots of design…..Likes Gen2, Savvy….so nw u can knw how the japanese works…. who said i dun knw nothing bout car….. You hv to knw to make an engine is really a hard work even Mitsubishi also get their engine from GM (General Motor) the from there they improved it…so Proton also do likes that….We can't bashed P1 simply like that….this is their 1st stage of doing the Malaysian engine…..Pls…stop discriminate on them….At least our people can do our own engine….Pls think of that…. i knw Mutant Tomato & toolan is talking rubbish….Y P2 can share their assembly plant with Toyota…??? Dis is because P2 is owning by Japanese… Can we say P2 is Malaysian Car Manufacturing Company??? I'm not discriminate P2, but i'm telling to those who think i'm a Pro-Proton…..
Rundingan Proton-VW hampir muktamad
VOLKSWAGEN AG (VW) dipercayai menggugurkan desakan untuk menguasai kepentingan kawalan dalam usaha samanya dengan Proton Holdings Bhd bagi menyegerakan pemeteraian perjanjian dengan pengeluar kereta nasional itu.
Menurut sumber, pengeluar kereta Jerman itu mengambil keputusan berkenaan bagi membolehkannya segera menempatkan diri dalam pasaran kenderaan Asia Tenggara yang begitu pesat berkembang.
Pengguguran desakan bagi pegangan kawalan yang menjadi punca menjejaskan perundingan sebelum ini bermakna, VW dan Proton akan memuktamadkan satu janji niaga perkongsian yang disemak semula.
Perkembangan terbaru itu berikutan tekanan dihadapi VW yang berdepan kemelut dalaman, penurunan jualan di pasaran utama serta kemungkinan mencatatkan lebih banyak kerugian daripada operasi globalnya pada 2006.
Menurut sumber VW Asia, rundingan terkini VW dengan Proton di Bangkok berjalan lancar dengan kedua-dua pihak berbincang dan bersetuju kepada beberapa butiran dalam cadangan perkongsian yang disemak semula.
Seorang penganalisis yang memantau industri automotif tempatan, berkata perkembangan terbaru itu adalah berita baik bagi Proton.
Beliau percaya usaha VW untuk meneruskan perkongsian dengan Proton disebabkan oleh kedudukan pasarannya yang semakin menurun.
“Pakatannya dengan Proton akan segera menyelesaikan masalah untuk mengeluarkan model yang sesuai di rantau ini,†kata penganalisis itu.
VW menghadapi kemerosotan keuntungan dalam tempoh tiga tahun lalu dan kedudukan kewangannya sekali lagi tertekan setelah keuntungannya di Eropah dijangka terjejas tahun depan, dengan kerugian bertambah di Amerika Syarikat, China dan Amerika Latin.
Morgan Stanley, dalam laporan terkininya berkata di Amerika Utara, VW rugi AS$1.1 bilion pada 2004 dan akan kerugian lagi pada 2005 setelah model Passat, Jetta dan Touareg gagal menarik pembeli Amerika.
Perkembangan dalam perbincangan Proton dengan VW dan rakan kerjasama pengeluar kereta berpotensi yang lain dilihat memberi ruang kepada pengurusan baru Proton meneraju syarikat itu pada 2006.
YEAH………MALAYSIA BOLEH
“Kerja-kerja mempromosi di rantau ASEAN menjadi mudah kerana delegasi Sidang Kemuncak ASEAN Ke-11 tertarik dan menunjukkan minat untuk membawa balik Proton Chancellor,'' katanya kepada pemberita semasa majlis `Bertemu Pasukan Chancellor' di sini, hari ini.
Who's said Proton cannot sell???
Marmitecrab said,
You need to take a long, hard look at what you’re fighting for and decide if it’s worth it. If not, then people like MutantTomato, toolan and myself will keep on wasting our time writing to you.
ello brader
baru sedar ke? everyboday have right 2 giv their opinions…… if u disagree no need to write la…….
4G93-SC said,
December 30, 2005 @ 10:01 am
Dear Marmitecrab,
Thnks for ur concern…well as i said P1 is purely Malaysian Car manufactured.. thats doesn’t means i’m supporting the P1..Yes, P2 is the 2nd natinal car but…can u said P2 is truly malaysian car manufacturer??? Do they make their owned design or do they create their owned engine…Y all the design frm P2 are same as Daihatsu and Toyota??? P2 is a cloning car manufacturer so i dun called it as a national car manufacturer…. sorry for the statement…likes Naza also..i also dun called it a national car manufacturer….
ello brader
i'm still support u… we hav same opinion about P2 N P1……..
proton share up rm0.25 to rm6.60 at10.41am…… signal 2 buy…….
i wonder those who support Proton and pledge thier loyalty, will they still buy Proton if toyota Vios drop to RM45000 (prices in thailand) and proton prices remain the same?
Try to think proton has to sell how many cars just to earn back the money they lost in MV agusta. And think further how many months people has to work to pay up their proton cars whenever they buy one.
Sound like Proton is burning our hard earn money. In fact, they are the POTONG and we are the SOTONG.
Muthu,
Don't be a dumb ass! Nobody buys when the price is going up you idiot!! Buy low, sell high!
Toolan,
Great going, let that idiotic Japanese engine code have his day lah. I suppose when, well, maybe if he becomes rich enough, he'll only buy the Perdana or Chancellor…
PROTON aims to sell 1,000 units, and they sell 30 he's bragging they can sell!
4G93-SC said,
December 28, 2005 @ 11:52 pm
A good decision to release all stake inside MV Agusta. Luckily its was 1 year Proton was involved in MV Agusta. Thus they got the technology but their core business is more on car. A big applause for P1.
> Onli loser in life will think big applause. In 1 year losing tt figure is huge! Ever thinking tt did u manage to earn tt sum nor using it? U must b a kuku
The fact is Proton still can maintained it Vehicle Registration above 5000 units per month for Klang Valley areas!!! Who said Proton can’t sell!!!!!! This means P1 can sell more than 60, 000 units per annum. Dude, this number really big……Toyota & Honda can’t beat this figures!
> Halo u OK or not?.. Toyota & Honda sure cant beat them la.. do u know tax structure, duti import, eksais?? Look carefully b4 blasting here la… otak udang
TM said,
hello stupid….. it's a SIGNAL to buy, stupid…… if the JV news realease to public, there will B speculators which will push the market price…..(depend the JV price)
no nothing about share market better sleep lo or play SUDOKU lo…….
craps… investlah EURO 70 mil in making better quality cars.
er, 4g93-sc, how u tau so many things ah? just curious, hehehehe
Listen to this Muthu dumb-ass fellow… He buys on speculation, punting on an unconfirmed report. No wonder he still drives a PROTON!
Proton can sell so much 60,000/annum but still loosing so much (take for example RM50,000 per unit) means 60,000 x 50,000 = RM3 billion. Wonder where all the money goes?????
muthu said,
December 30, 2005 @ 10:21 am
Marmitecrab said,
You need to take a long, hard look at what you’re fighting for and decide if it’s worth it. If not, then people like MutantTomato, toolan and myself will keep on wasting our time writing to you.
ello brader
baru sedar ke? everyboday have right 2 giv their opinions…… if u disagree no need to write la…….
no wonder la u still sell ice-cream.. ppl using van.. u still using basikal 3 roda… thn after selling go minum todi, u can ask 4G93-SC said, join u olso..
The only proton car I think met good quality is Perdana, the rests are complete crabs!!!
typical malaysian
when the elite say oh proton is genuine malaysian design and perodua just copy blah balh, they take it as the word , the only truth
since when anything sophiscated can be built by malaysian, look at the engines, all imported, look at the design all copied and adjusted , the so call waja, takes its design from obsolete mitsubishi model by condensing the shape so that it looks a bit different. the savvy, engine from renault, l bet the design is also copy from one of the obsolete cars out there which malaysians will never know,if you search hard on the net, there will be an old car that looks just like the so call new proton, stop labelling perodua as a copy cat, proton is not far behind, at least perodua did not need to spend tax payers money 300 million on some stupid investment.
l bet none of you feel the pain of 300 million tax payers money down the drain
that money would bring better health, schools, water and electricity but we are too dull to think of that.
4G93-SC,
I get what you're trying to say. However, you need to look at the automotive industry as a business and not as an attempt to build patriotism like what you suggest. It costs a lot more to develop your own car than to copy like what P2 is doing. As a business, you need to look at profitability and sustainability. In order to achieve profits, you need economies of scale.
Spending so much on R&D and not being able to sell enough to recoup the costs is a dangerous gamble and a foolish one. Even if it is for namesake. That's why P1 is losing money. People are just plain tired of the poor quality. You can support them all you want but nothing is going to change if everyone adopts the same stand as you. P1 is still going to give us lousy quality cars, period.
Take the Savvy for example, you say P1 is spending a lot of effort on designing and builiding their own engines but so far, you only mentioned the Campro. If they are moving in the direction you say they are, then why use French engines for the Savvy? Why not develop one specificaly for it? Answer – it costs too much to do so. And they will have no choice but to transfer that costs to you.
So far, Proton has not given the rakyat any reason whatsoever to support them. They give us poor quality products, poor service, high cost of parts, same old designs, ugly new designs, etc. Tell me, how to love a company like that?
To the "tifosi" out there, why do you love Ferrari so much? Not like you can own one, right? The closest answer I can think of is, Ferrari excites you. Proton just frustrates you. Show of hands who agrees!
Savvy's Renault engines are the result of the Waja 1.8 Renaukt engines.
PROTON committed a certain number of units when they signed the TCA (technology collaboration agreement) with Renault. When the Waja 1.8 failed, they had to make good the balance.
Marmitecrab, dun waste time for this "idiotic Japanese engine code" (Borrow pls.. TM)
He die die wan P1, give him lar, yalar P1 very good.. bring economy growth, employm growth, currency growth… everything good larr.. we all shd dispose off non-national cars, appreciate his effort die die support P1 must buy P1 onli… those buying non-national car are evils hurting de economy.
I suppose he doesnt know our Sultans having Ferraris, Phantoms, Lambos.. so will someone ask if our Sultans wld be glad to dispose-off their exotic cars and drive P1 in every where they go? Following his quote, our Sultans doesnt contribute to the economy but merely killing our currency??
in additional pls stop posting news here, memang malas nak baca. Nothing new.. nothing fancy.. all are bullshit. It just realy childish following de news which is so untrue.. good response for chancelor konon??
I LOVE PROTON.
4G93-SC, hahahahahhahaha. U made a joke of yourself bro……the more i read the more cartoon u get. Step into the realistic world pls.
Lastly, Happy new year to all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
errr…Campro engine in Gen.2 doesn't comes with camshaft profiling, right?
Cam used to move valve, right?
VVTI uses hydraulic to move the cam, right?
Waja engine is a re-bored version of Iswara with extra valve, right?
These are the info I'd heard and read from Magazines, correct me if I'm wrong.
By the way, Malaysian then to have a culture to 'push around' responsibilities, and blame others, just look how bad our drivers on the road.
So, it is expected to see people shooting and blaming around. Nobody tried to do the best from themselves.
TM said,
December 30, 2005 @ 12:14 pm
Listen to this Muthu dumb-ass fellow… He buys on speculation, punting on an unconfirmed report. No wonder he still drives a PROTON!
ello stupid…… this is malaysian equity market…. people do not no what is fundamental analysis or technical analysis or EMH…… investor in malaysia use a technic call GAMBLING ma…… u never enter the market, u dont now, stupid porrah chit? go N read ma….. surf the internet….. there is news at http://www.bernama.com.my/
so went VW agree to JV with proton, the price will increase…….
hello TM stupid call your remisier N ask him or her what happen last time when VW agree to buy at RM10.00….. early in the morning, proton share shoot up to rm10.00( the deal collapse ma)
this is not cakap cakap kosong ma….. there is prove……
in technical analysis there is a theory HISTORY REPEAT IT SELF…….
MahathirSpeakz said,
December 30, 2005 @ 12:31 pm
——no wonder la u still sell ice-cream.. ppl using van.. u still using basikal 3 roda… thn after selling go minum todi, u can ask 4G93-SC said, join u olso..
how U know i'm selling ice-cream…… U R my father ?
If there are 3 parellel worlds,
1) No proton, all we can see on the roads are Toyota, Honda, Nissan, small number of european car and of course, Mitsubitshi.
2) With Proton, an alternative for good handling strong chassis car, just like Alfa in the west, sell in smaller but exclusive number
3) Good quality Proton, with cheaper (5-10%) price.
Which will you choose? I will go for the 2nd one.
Marmitecrab said,
December 30, 2005 @ 1:55 pm
……. Proton just frustrates you. Show of hands who agrees!
hey dude….. mana lu punya tangan, tarak nampak pun(manyak funny)……..kah kah kah kah kah
happy new year…….
engine code… i like that! I shall refer to him using that from now on….
Brother…. How bloody IGNORANT can you be?! Mitsubishi copied their design from Proton?! Almost every Proton design in the early years was based on a Mitsubishi car! Wira = Lancer, Perdana = Eterna and so on and so forth! Thats why it is so easy to change engines in a Proton. Just take a Mitsubishi engine and transplant it in!
Your logic of "quality for a low price" is interesting but FLAWED! You're comparing on the road prices! Brudderrrr, OBVIOUSLY the Gen2 is cheaper than a Vios! Why don't you compare the factory prices of the cars? THEN see which is cheaper, the Vios or the Gen2. You can't use on the road prices because there is a different tax structure used for foreign cars.
And please don't give me that rubbish that Proton has to protect its overseas sales by offering better cars!!! What about us?! Don't we, being MALAYSIANS, deserve the best quality cars as well? You buy a Beemer in Germany and a Beemer here. See if there is a difference in BUILD QUALITY… Note the last 2 words… BUILD QUALITY… The reason why the Protons over there are excellent is the QC is very very strict! Over here? Sap sap sui la!
When I say "best quality," I don't mean pure calf leather seats, a Harman Kardon surround sound systen, etc etc etc… I mean, just making sure everything works properly, fits properly and doesn't spoil/break down so damned fast! Thats all!
Horsepower means nothing nowadays… There are SO MANY aftermarket products that can give you an increase in HPs. 5 years ago, someone putting NOS in their car was a big hoo ha… Nowadays, you can get the whole system for RM1000!
All we want from Proton is for them to make decent cars that work properly and don't bloody fall apart! They don't have to feature the latest gizmos and comforts! No one is asking that! You damned well cannot have BMW specs for Proton prices! Just make a reliable car that will give its owner as little hassle and problems as possible…
Proton had such a model once… Its called the Proton Saga… I can say I "tabik hormat" this car! The build quality was good, it was long lasting and didn't give as much problems as the newer Protons. So what if it was quite ugly? It did what it advertised and more!
Also, your milestone of Proton thing… Hmmm, maybe its just me but, I did see Satria and Wira repeated there many times over! :D Oh yes I forgot! The WIRA and WIRA AEROBACK are two distinctly different cars! Not just one being a saloon and the other being the hatchback version! silly me… :P And so what about their milestone? Can you see the number of cars there? Now, count the number of failures… Yes, failures, both in the local market and the foreign market… There's the Tiara, Arena and Juara… All failures! And please don't count the Satria R3 as a Proton achievement! It most definitely isn't! R3 is something like PERT… They are tuners! They happen to specialize in Protons. Its like Brabus, Kleeman and AMG for Mercs. If the Sartia R3 is impressive, its because of R3, not Proton!
Another person said this earlier, which I will paraphrase… If people are so proud and patriotic about their Wiras and Satrias and whatnot, why do they try SO DAMNED HARD to make it look like the original Mitsubishi the car was copied from? Wira = change to Mitsu engine, put Mitsu logo, change to Lancer rear lights, change to Mitsu steering, etc… Heck, there's even a term for these cars; the WIRALUTION (Evolution a.k.a. Evo + Wira!)
4G-93, get this… I actually still harbour some hope for Proton. I still believe they are capable of doing something great. I still believe Proton one day will be numero uno in Asia. However, if they are going to continue down the same road they are on now, NOTHING will ever change!
Marmitecrab! Ma' main man! :D How's it going?
Mahathirspeakz: Bro, nice one about the "wikipedia comments" thingie… :D
To the brother who asked me about Air Asia… Not sure about the Berjaya/Vincent Tan owning AirAsia thing la bro… If you ask me though, IMHHHO, I don't think that would be Uncle Vincent's business style. He is an aggressive businessman, aggressive as in he will always be the front man and the owner and everything. I'm pretty sure Tony owns AirAsia, lock stock and barrel.
Marmitecrab,
U should know that its hard to do the smll engine thats y P1 takes the Renault engine….
If Sultans wanna buy the Prantice Horses,Gallardo or others exotic cars its up to them….they can afford ma….
Dear my fren Muthu….
I'm support u brader…
I guess a lot of people still have hopes for Proton, especially the industries it picked up. Nobody wanted a failure, but PLZZZZZZZZZ improve and stop blaming others.
I will soob if Proton failed, b'coz it is Proton that makes me feel great about the national car project, but that's it. If it's stumple due to its own stubborness and political or management issues, than it is a pity.
I guess it will sums up how Malaysia it is. Great ideas, know how to start, but lousy maintanence and future plans.
I guess a lot of people still have hopes for Proton, especially the industries it picked up. Nobody wanted a failure, but PLZZZZZZZZZ improve and stop blaming others.
I will soob if Proton failed, b'coz it is Proton that makes me feel great about the national car project, but that's it. If it's stumple due to its own stubborness and political or management issues, than it is a pity.
I guess it will sums up how Malaysia it is. Great ideas, know how to start, looks nice, but lousy maintanence, inside bad and no future plans.
keep on coming, please….
lai lai lai
MutantTomato said,
December 30, 2005 @ 5:01 pm
engine code… i like that! I shall refer to him using that from now on….
Brother…. How bloody IGNORANT can you be?! Mitsubishi copied their design from Proton?! Almost every Proton design in the early years was based on a Mitsubishi car! Wira = Lancer, Perdana = Eterna and so on and so forth! Thats why it is so easy to change engines in a Proton. Just take a Mitsubishi engine and transplant it in!
Aloo brader..u ni lagi bodoh punyer olang…..Mmg Proton ader pakai design frm Mitsubishi..Wira =Lancer & Perdana = Eterna but…..Masa Proton punyer engineer tgh design yg power2 nyer itu MMC sudah cilok our engineer punya design…. cube lu tgk itu prototaip utk Evo baru…..
Sebenarnyer Olang jepun pun talak idea utk design baru…diaorg pun banyak cilok european car design jugak….begitu jugak dgn european cilok design Jepun….Haiya brader sikalang ini sudah jadi kebiasaan org cilok design org lain….so MMC pun tak kecuali aper…cube lu tengok design baru utk Merc S-Class, ada serupa dgn design Jepun for Honda Accord ada serupa dia punya headlamp….Lu boleh tgk jugak itu Toyota Crown baru Majesty ader serupa design Europe sket2….Lu boleh tgk jugak kereta dari Korea ader serupa dgn design BMW ….so nw other ppl can copy on other pl design…aper nk heran….. Lu ni bodoh punyer org….
Eloo Mutant Tomato….
You wanna compare R3 with Brabus, Kleeman, AMG etc…..What are u thinking man…..:D
ehehehe…..what a shit statement u give….. The milestone i mean that P1 can give us the variety of car to choose at that time….at least they are doin sumthing for improvement…..
Mutant Tomato, are u dare to accelerate your car up to 7000rpm without any additional kits likes turbo or supercharge??? But with un-tuned Gen2, it was proven…… Nw u can see hw good was our car…. Ooppss i knw what r u gonna to say…. No need to say lorr…just SHUT UP!
Disgraceful!
Laughing Stock of the of the nation to the world!!!
The Gen.2 may be able to rev up to 7000rpm but what's the point when the power windows don't work, doors don't close properly, etc. because when you buy a car, it's not just because the engine can rev up to 7000rpm without the aid of a turbo or supercharger.
In other words, so what? I'm sure there are other cars out there which can rev as high if not higher. And besides, how may opportunities a normal session of driving will you get to rev your engine to such a high speed? You're mentioning something so remote, so irrelevant, I don't even know why I'm replying!
To HELL with Proton !
Close shop la protong… The Rakyat will benefit more if protong close shop than if it's r still around, robbing us of our $$$ in a "legal" way…
4g93 you stupid bloody idiot… If you don't know how to read, please do something about it! I said R3 is a TUNER like Brabus and Kleeman and the rest! I DID NOT SAY THEY ARE THE SAME i.e. SAME LEVEL! All I said is the Satria R3 is good BECAUSE of the R3 tuning!
It was "Proven" that the Gen2 can accelerate up to 7k RPM…. ANY bloody car can do that! You don't need a turbo or supercharger to redline rev! In fact, if you had a turbocharged or supercharged car, you'd want to avoid redlining because thats how you'd blow your turbine/compressor.
Styling is OBVIOUSLY done based on other existing styles, ESPECIALLY nowadays. Americans like a certain "look," while Europeans like a different look. So OBVIOUSLY the car manufacturers would design a certain car for the market they are targeting!
You stupid bloody ass, you didn't even include the Perdana in your "milestone!" The first Perdana came out around 1996. The Perdana V6 came out around the year 2000. The Eterna? The first one to be copied by Perdana came out in 1992! Then later in 1995! Here's some 2nd hand car dealers with the model and the specs:
http://www.japan-partner.com/Auto/367/Mitsubishi/…
http://www.cars-directory.net/gallery/mitsubishi/…
http://www.cardatabase.net/search/photo_search.ph…
So, what stupid bloody idiotic comment are you going to make next? The used car people are liars? They "berkomplot" with Mitsubishi to tiau Proton? Or Proton has a working time machine to travel back in time and copy the design before Mitsubishi did it?
There! I have provided links to back up what I'm saying! So now, before you run your mouth off again and make yourself look stupider (Which isn't too hard for you to do!), provide some links or some databases to back up what you said about Mitsubishi copying Proton! And PLEASE DO NOT go to some encyclopedia and copy+paste some irrelevant information!
4G93-SC said,
December 30, 2005 @ 10:13 pm
U should know that its hard to do the smll engine thats y P1 takes the Renault engine….
4G93-SC said,
December 28, 2005 @ 11:52 pm
Do u guys agreed with me..? Only P1 is doing their best and not trying to copy frm anybody else to produce our national car….Besides the Saga n Wira… FYI, MMC and japanese has stolen on our ppl design…..Thats y they said our design is old…FYI, when we collaborate with MMC, there hv a lots of barriers in decision making for the mgt of P1….when we are not with MMC, from there we do lots of design…..Likes Gen2, Savvy….
4G93-SC said,
December 30, 2005 @ 10:13 pm
A good decision to release all stake inside MV Agusta. Luckily its was 1 year Proton was involved in MV Agusta. Thus they got the technology but their core business is more on car. A big applause for P1.
-weih 4G93, ko ni mmg la BODOH SOMBONG. tau pon nak buat small engine susah, tau pon skang proton design kereta sendiri. pasal tu la proton dulu beli mv agusta, bengong! pastu skang proton jual balik mv agusta ko sokong ek. ko ni mmg la sama bodoh mcm proton.
ko igt br setahun pegang mv agusta dah dpt teknologi?? teknologi hape? buat engine kecik? abis kalo dapat nape beli engine savvy ngn renault? teknologi hape? design kereta? ko igt setahun sempat ke nak design kereta sampai siap? toyota pon amek masa 2 thn, br skang nak jd setahun.
ko ni memalukan diri sendiri jek.
YO PAUL…
CAN'T U JUST BAN OR DELETE THIS 4G93-SC & MUTHU!!! I'M SURE 90% OF THE READER WILL VERY HAPPY!!!
2 MAMAT NI BETUL PUNYE BODOH SOMBONG LAH, DUK BACKIN SAMA SENDIRI.. X PERNAH LG AKU JUMPA ORG MACAM NI, DAH BEST SANGAT BUAT BLOG SENDIRI LAH WEI!! PATRIOTIK SGT DGN M'SIA & PROTON DIA, NICKNAME PUN PAKAI KOD ENJIN JEPUN… TUKAR LA NAMA TU…
WHO'S WITH ME?!
Some people just so 'degil'
Things have good and bad, but plz don't argue with stupid points. Sometimes we must admit that we do wrong, or we must improve on somethings, not just plaint saying "I am so good, I don't want to listen to all your nonsense crap"
Just like kids.
And maybe Paul can open another topics……"Engine Code vs Others"….or organize a debat in a natianol art centre and invite all the bloggers to come…..and also P1, P2 peoples….haha
Hang Jebat, ni Aku member hang, HANG TUAH!.. Paul "Kasi BUANG itu 2 ekor makluk degil tak berotak!! Dah memang di takdirkan seumur hidup jual ais-krim si Muthu.. satu lagi.. SAKAI!
Bedebah punya dua ekor hantu. Cilaka punya sakai –
4G93-SC said,
December 30, 2005 @ 5:14 pm
If Sultans wanna buy the Prantice Horses,Gallardo or others exotic cars its up to them….they can afford ma….
> Eat ur shit la.. thn y u say our RM currency outflow to oversea??? Sultans' tak bising, apa engkau bising? Habs Sultan tak buang duit ke luar negara? Satu biji phantom berapa million?? Lambo berapa?? Ferrari?? Kalau tak tau harga, duduk diam bodoh! Sebiji Phantom dah boleh beli berapa HOnda, Toyota kau bagi tau aku! MALAYSIA akan pupus kerana adanya manusia seperti kau berdua ni!! MAMPUS LAH KAU!!!
Weii…..
Nampaknyer korang ni (mahathir, mutant tomato & toolan) mmg bodoh & sombong….Korang nk mampus ke argue ngan pembelian Sultan…nampaknyer korang kata yg Sultan buang duit….Mampus la korang..aku kata Sultan boleh beli sbb dia mampu and mmg standard Sultan pakai keta exotic mcm tu….Then korang patut fikir yg berapa byk lah sgt Ferrari, Lambo, Maserati, Bentley, Jag etc kat M'sia ni….Aku tak nak sentuh ttg hak Sultan….Korang tahu tak Sultan kita pun ader keta Proton….so ape salahnyer kalau Sultan nak pakai keta Ferrari, LAmbo, MAserati…. Even though Sultan pun support keta M'sia tapi korang sume ni x pernah support keta nasional….even PM kite pun gune keta Waja….so see hw confident our No.1 Man on our Proton….. (So korang nk argue statement aku ni…)
Do u knw that every automotive company in the world are making losses…?? This is because the economic recession last time so its took several years to recovered….Proton also tak terlepas maa…..
Y are u guys still bashing the P1.. U guys dun even knw how they faced when the economic recession last time…..Y Toyota and Honda Malaysia nwadays retrench so many of its staff?? I think u can think if a big company like that been downsizing…..So what are u guys wan frm Proton…Give them a time for improvement…..Nw they have a new CEO on board, give him a try-time…..Let we c hw he handle this thing…If i'm asking (Mutant Tomato, Toolan, mahatir) this fellas dun even knw hw the industry works…so do u wanna hear statement frm this craps fellas or frm a person who have experience in automotive industry…????
My fren Muthu,
Y these guys (Mutnt Tmato, Toolan, Marmitecrab, Hang Jebat and Mahathir) jealous with our statement…We didn't said nothing wrong only truth but these guys givin us a bullshit statement..Nw they wanted Paul to push us away thats means that this guys hv no more ideas to give…ehehehehehee
well my fren Muthu….i think we've done a good job as a Malaysian…
For those who think y i'm using dis Japan Code engine, because this is Proton Engine frm Mitsubishi…4G93 for 1.8L …Salah kah gua gune code ni sbb P1 pakai sehh…takkan nk kasi nama Kenanga ke…Harrharrr…
Look my fren Muthu, once again these ppl dun knw nothing bout car….
Thnks for your support, Muthu…
*Happy New Year" brader
Do u knw that every automotive company in the world are making losses…?? This is because the economic recession last time so its took several years to recovered….Proton also tak terlepas maa…..
….brilliant commentary by 439s (or whatever)
OTHER AUTO COMPANIES IN THE WORLD R MAKING LOSES BECOZ THEY R IN AN OPEN MARKET, OPEN COMPETITION…potong making loses walaupun ditolong oleh kerajaan, walaupun kite rakyat malaysia di paksa utk membeli kereta potong disebabkan tax yg tinggi keatas kereta lain..
vios 45,000 kat thailand, kat bolehland, mahathir/mahaleel masuk poket 35,000
yg kaya semua kroni kerajaan, yg semakin miskin rakyat kita, yg bazir rm313 million tu ketawa pigi bank…semua jalan berlubang sebabkan accident, tak peduli…kereta pun tarak tau buat, mau pigi bili kedai motosikal..
pui..
lu manyak bodoh la pigi naik petronas twin tower dan lompat lah
others ppl copy Proton. I think only stupid ppl will say that.
lagi satu, baru dapat "puji" sikit dari delegate lain recently pasal itu potong chancellor, SUDAH MAU EKSEN!!..hahahah…itu delegate semu misti pujilah, itu sebahagian dali cara dia orang kasi muka/tanda hormat..tapi potong wah sudah cakap besar dlm suratkhabar yg "potong dapat sambutan baik and pujian dali delegate" …kat simalam punya paper (ke 2 hali lalu), potong boldly proclaim that "potong chanceloor received good remarks from delagates, and WE R READY FOR EXPORT ANYTIME"
gua telus muntah lepas baca ini comment
sudah kena puji beberapa olang delegate, sudah mau eksen…kalu dipuji ber ribu2 pembeli, baru betul…ini delegate semu cakap tipu punya!!
haiya malaysia going down the drain man…even "kwai lo" saying so
the following is a email letter written to me depicting a real life experience:
Still remember me when I met you at the Proton workshop in November. You were reading a book on investing in properties then.
It looks like the new WAJA car's malfunctioning parts are not going to be repaired early. Three weeks ago, I received a call from the salesman. The parts have arrived. Please send your car. I went. It was a 'false alarm'. No parts, nothing. Why call me? We received a lot of spare parts and I thought yours have arrived!
I made a complaint before X'mas to EON's hotline. I'll look into it and give you a call tomorrow. No call. I went to S'pore for 3 days (holiday). Back after X'mas, I called again. The person is on leave. Put me through his supervisor, I told the operator. A En. Soma, Asst. Manager, took my call. Things moved. EON, Pringgit Point called me on Tuesday to send the car over. I told him I'll be there today, Saturday, at 9am. Please fix the appointment. 9.40am the technician (who called me) asked what's wrong with the car. The boot cannot be opened. He fixed it right away. The hook is upside down, that's why the boot cannot be opened. This chap is good, unlike the earlier mechanic who said the part must be changed.
Next, the wiper motor has to be changed. It'll be in the afternoon. Leave the car here. No, I'll take the car home. Why not come another day? No. You call me when it's ready to be changed. 3.15pm now, I am still waiting for the call.
Fourteen years ago, when I bought a new WIRA car, I experienced bad and slow service. Nothing has changed. I remember, my car's front side signal light (a small red lamp below the rear mirror) was dislodged. The mechanic couldn't fix it back. He changed a new one. He tried so many times to fix it but it just wouldn't hold. So, it became a sort of lose. He told me: 'Tak boleh lekat.' I drove the car out of the workshop. Behind the workshop, there was a Chinese mechanic doing spraying works. I asked him to check the signal lamp for me. He took it out, examined the holder and gave it a push. It fitted perfectly.
"Y these guys (Mutnt Tmato, Toolan, Marmitecrab, Hang Jebat and Mahathir) jealous with our statement…"
You're right, I'm jealous with your statement. Never mind our intellectual and well thought out replies. Never mind our specific argumentative points and forget about our well-researched topics.
We're just jealous of your bullshit replies, your crappy grammar and your dumb-witted arguments. Also never mind that you never really provided any references to back up your claims or your statements that we know nothing about the automotive industry.
Let me guess, you're probably some low-level clerk working in Proton or at least one of the vendors and all you see day in and out is Proton, Proton, Proton. You're stuck in a 9 to 5 job with plenty of time fo tea breaks to gossip about others and when you do return to work, you spend all your time reading and replying this blog site. How am I doing so far?
Sorry, I forgot. Muthu is probably the despatch rider for your company, right?
If u guys wanna bashing the P1, just go ahead…… But remembered, with the existence of P1, its give us (Malaysian) a job….P1 give ur father, mother, relatives, brader or sista the job….
if u wanna bashing them, pls to do so……For me, i'm standing with my statement on positive statement of P1…..
Please discuss constructively and not hurl insults at each other.
Paul,
Sorry if you felt offended. But not fair, lah.
I never say things like – "If i’m asking (Mutant Tomato, Toolan, mahatir) this fellas dun even knw hw the industry works…", "what a shit statement u give", "Aloo brader..u ni lagi bodoh punyer olang", "Brother…. How bloody IGNORANT can you be?!"
The above quotes are from another contributor.
Happy New Year, everyone!
I'm not targetting anyone in particular, just giving a general reminder.
Looks like you got yourself some company this New Year's Eve, eh?
Are you a family man?
Hope you catch the fireworks show.
Happy New Year and many returns.
Marmitecrab: no, not really. early 20s, single and transportless. heh.
Happy New Year Paul and to all the other readers!! :D
Paul, apa sudah jadi sam you punya super modded dynoed Satria? :P
Thanks Paul, for being opened in the discussion….
surely my company will bringing a new model of Merc nxt year..more n more….
if u wanna hv it pls do send me a msg…
I'll will bringing new model of Prantice Horse (430) and others…..
we'll hv a new model for our 3rd car..(u already knew it).. so all the best to u Paul….
Next Malaysia will hv the Ducati Classic models
aiskelim ais kelim aiskelim anybody 1 aiskelim…… ahak ahak ahak ahak……
happy new year everybody……
ello my brader 4G93-SE…….. tq 4 your support……… i will support u 4 ever…… ( what i have told everybody is true……- read first la be4 KUTUK)…..
may god bless u PAUL……..
My eyes get teary looking at the number of comment here.
With higher car price, higher petrol price, higher interest rates, higher toll rates (Who dont pay tol in Klang valley?) and they reduce road tax to add salt to the wound. Still wanna protect p1? c'mon, We cant even fend for ourselves. Might as well ride a bike or take intrakota.
Anyway, Happy New Year. May all of us get a cheaper, safer, soulful, loanless, comfy, stunnier, bigger, problemless, windowful ok car this year. Cheers!
with 5 prime minister, i think Pak Lah is the weakest of them all. He can just give his seat up.
4G93-SC said,
December 31, 2005 @ 8:42 pm
If u guys wanna bashing the P1, just go ahead…… But remembered, with the existence of P1, its give us (Malaysian) a job….P1 give ur father, mother, relatives, brader or sista the job….
if u wanna bashing them, pls to do so……For me, i’m standing with my statement on positive statement of P1…..
—————————————————————-
wa..wa ..good…good proton. but u have to remember u work whit them but u still pay a income TeX to them to do a stupid thing n give a CEO money to there pocket, what a cow.
u know it by your self.
there know there cant do it but there still 1 to do n helping, support there own minority's!, this can show in front of us n directly 1 there own kind to do a business but there r stupid n prove out, so where is there equal to us our Malaysians?. there r destroy there own n our country n become like indon at the end i will say!.no wonder we loss to singapore just a tyne lane, cause why? different type of people do n think. ha..ha…
if Malaysia give to singapore n singapore give to Malaysia what it gone b in 10 o 30 years time only. can Malaysia survive in that tyne land n build up better then singapore now s a example now o better then that.
never mind there have a lot of money, but stupid is us u n me who pay a TeX that not equal to what there doing. just because of what ? u know i know! la malay sia… la!.
. if there really prove out why dont n do we need to bashing!. rather then westing that money why dont that money give to will-fair o thing that really can improve will n who wear really need it.
i totally agree with all the statements from Mutnt Tmato, Toolan, Marmitecrab, Hang Jebat and Mahathir…u guys talk of true facts and real life experiences that we as a nation of good and 'hardworking'(the majority) are trapped in our own automotive industry that we are being fed with the lowest in quality for our own nationla cars… I dont see any point in supporting the 'National Car Maker P1' if all they do is provide foreigners with top quality cars that they can afford to built and give us their "COUNTRY MEN" a low end quality car.
Im not bashing anybody here but i have just since last time when i began to think of all these.. (im only 21) am really pissed off by our national carmakers by doing such greedy and 'non-patriotic' acts… If u 43p0 (star-wars character) and Muthu (i wonder whether u're th uncle i know that sells putu-mayam in my kampung,,,chun weh!nice =p ) are talking about patriotism…u should ask our national carmakers to plz plz plz TRY to benefit our country men first, out US as the priority to access their top quality cars ahead of the kuai lous..
this is all i have to say.. dont think my comment will make any difference but i just would want to join the crowd..ahahaha
Btw…43p0… r u like a 'earth-prince'? (translate to BM.. =) )
no insult here…cause i even see our earth-princes are condemning proton..sigh..
p.s:- Naza's gonna own the car industry in malaysia..(not national car though..) but dang dang happy with the quality of the cars.. =)
Think I want to buy the Waja, its cool.
dulu bapak aku punya proton aeroback baik punya…tarak rosak…pastu wira pun ok gak tarak rosak sangat….tapi apsal gen.2 skang ni buat perangai cam setan…aku tak tahan nak jadi gila dah….aku mmg patriotik tapi pak aku, pak long aku ka sapa ka tarak kerja kat proton….member kat proton ada la sorang dua tapi nak blah dah tak tahan….aku rasa kalau proton tak ubah dianyer kualiti mmg aku takkan beli proton lagik….sial la korang…aku dah bangga tau masa proton menang award byk giler dulu…apsal korang jadi camni?……
Proton u came up with the phrase dare to change….tolong la pegi change
Tom said,
January 5, 2006 @ 3:00 pm
Think I want to buy the Waja, its cool.
——————————————————–
thats a good idea tom n jerry…..the waja is a real cool car compare with vios,city,etc…
Boycott P1 and (maybe) P2 said,
December 31, 2005 @ 12:26 am
Close shop la protong… The Rakyat will benefit more if protong close shop than if it’s r still around, robbing us of our $$$ in a “legal†way…
—————————————————————
stupid boy…dont take spm exam ahh u?…..if u dont know nothin,just keep quiet……go and play chatting la boy,or maybe ps2…
hahahahahhahahahahahah…ur right shaymen…that boy still a virgin i think..thats why cannot think straight
"kerrrjaaaa sama sayyyaaaaaaaaa"……………..
ayamas said,
January 5, 2006 @ 3:31 pm
aku dah bangga tau masa proton menang award byk giler dulu…apsal korang jadi camni?……
Proton u came up with the phrase dare to change….tolong la pegi change
—————————————————————
sebab vendor kita pemalas,diaorang tau Tun dah buat law yang proton kena ambik barang dgn local vendor so that,bukan proton je naik,vendor pun bole cari makan sama….so vendor buat ala kadir je laa.
sebab nak tak nak production kena jalan…itulah pasal tm ambil TUV,nakupgrade kan local vendor la beb..nak hapuskan takleh.
itulah sebab musibabnya….tapi,if u want to know more..pls contact this person-laetitia husband,speed junkie,jolly bean,zahrul shahril…
all of them is PST(prof serba tau).
now proton phrase will be..dare to be sold cheaply..LOL
what's wrong with a nyawa-nyawa ikan company ? It doesn't mean that it will not have a bright future at all. If TDM & Tengku Mahalel got the guts to but MV Agusta in the first place, the management should have used their brains and find ideas on how to make MV Agusta turn into a masterpiece for Proton. If Tony Fernandez with his wits can turn a bankrupt company into the region's popular and trustworthy low-cost airline,why is Azlan afraid to take the risk? The answer is simple : DOn't want to waste time to concentrate on something that isn't able to give BIG MONEY within a year. Well, if it is true..how are you gonna make Proton succeed?do tell me Mr Azlan. Your explanation about MV Agusta today is the same old answer. I don't think any of the rakyat nor TDM and even Tengku Mahaleel accept your explanation. There's something missing here. Why did you seel it for 1 Euro? How come another company has the guts to take risk of buying MV Agusta??????????????????????? Tensen betul bila orang bodoh mentadbir!! Kita pulak as rakyat ikut jer….takde nak protes in media or watsoever. Hmm..kalau protest dlm paper pun susah coz kroni PM control.nak tunggu negara jadi macam Indonesia ke?????? Tension!!
http://www.mvagustausa.com/web-mvagusta/news.html
pak bodohlah jual 1 euro