Let’s have a look at the very heart of the Proton EMAS Concept cars – the Lotus Range Extender Engine. There has been a lot of concerns from readers about the range which has been rated at 50km. First of all, the car is still a concept at this point of time, so these figures are generally quite meaningless unless the car gets closer to production.
Concept cars are generally done as a ‘what if’ exercise and to gauge public perception and interest before moving ahead with the production version. This is why the one big question put forth at the Proton Concepts microsite is “would you like this to be the future of Proton”. According to Datuk Syed Zainal, it may take another 2 years before we can see a production version of the Proton EMAS on the roads.
But in any case, one of the most common comparisons in the comments so far is between the EMAS and the Mitsubishi i-MiEV. After all, the i-MiEV is somewhat similar – raised floor, compact size, rear motor and rear wheel driven. But the key difference between the two cars is that the i-MiEV is a pure electric car while the Proton EMAS Concept is a series-hybrid. But what exactly does series-hybrid mean? Does it mean it is not an electric car thus is not as ‘clean’ as an i-MiEV?
A series hybrid is basically an electric car, as long as you have enough juice in the battery packs for the electric motor to function. The Proton EMAS Concept has a range of 50km, which is shorter than the i-MiEV’s 160km range. But note that it isn’t an apple to apple comparison – the i-MiEV’s 160km range is calculated based on the Japanese 10-15 urban mode driving cycle, while Proton’s 50km range is not specified. It might be a mixed mode range or a ‘best effort’ range.
The difference is range can be quite easily explained – it is simply because the i-MiEV has a larger battery. It needs to have a larger battery because the battery is its only source of energy. Once you’re out of juice, you’re a sitting duck. With the Lotus Range Extender system, you do not need to have such a large battery – only one that is large enough to complete most city trips. That means less weight and less cost in terms of battery costs. Let’s say your office is about 15km to 20km from your home. You’ll hopefully be able to complete a to and fro trip on a single charge. When you get home, you plug the EMAS into your wall socket again to fully charge it up (3 hours on our 240V voltage – longer in 120V countries), and repeat the cycle the next day.
What happens when you need to travel further than 50km? The internal combustion engine will turn on and run to generate power. Because it only generates power and does not drive the wheels, Lotus can optimize it to run only at certain RPM points, so there is no need for costly variable valve timing, or this or that. The engine is a very simple 1.2 litre 3 cylinder single cam engine with only 2 valves per cylinder and a 10.0:1 compression ratio. It does not have to be built to withstand high RPM speeds so it can be lighter and cheaper to manufacture. The Range Extender engine only runs at 2 points – 1,500rpm and a higher 3,500rpm when you need to generate power a little faster. Peak torque is 107Nm at 2,500rpm, while peak power is quoted at 51hp at 3,500rpm.
Thus the Proton EMAS is hybrid in the sense that the electricity that its electric motor requires can be obtained through 2 ways – either a wall socket, or by the range extender engine burning fuel to generate electricity. As long as you do not exhaust the 50km battery capacity, your EMAS is technically as good as an electric vehicle and there won’t be any exhaust gas coming out of your exhaust pipes. But we don’t know yet how the battery management system works so the range extender engine might kick in earlier to ensure the battery does not get too weak in order to preserve battery life.
What I want to know now is how efficient the engine is in burning petrol to generate electricity. How many km can the car go on the electricity generated by 1 litre of petrol? That will give us a “km per litre” measurement for when the car is not running on plug-in power. Look after the jump for 4 pix of the engine.
[zenphotopress number=999 album=908]
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I bet we won't see this in another 5yrs. By the time it reach the market, new technology might have emerged…..Good luck Proton Emas!
how mush it cost??????
first first~ so the range will be more than 50kn eh paul? correct me if im wrong
i solves the electric car main problems..the charge time and the charging facility..with the petrol powered battery charger (lotus extender)..
and it will be able to hit more than 50km ..if it works both ways…
The range is technically as much as a regular 'petrol' car since you can refuel it with petrol as much as you want.
What I want to know now is how efficient is burning petrol to generate electricity. How many km can the car go on electricity generated by 1 liter of petrol? That will bring is back to the old "km per liter" measurement.
3l per 100km will do if it price around RM45,000.
bagus kalau proton buat kereta elektrik, boleh reduce pelepasan karbon dan mampu jimat duit. harap-harap proton kena buat kereta emas versi mpv.
put solid capacitor to make electricity lasts longer
Paul Tan said,
March 3, 2010 @ 3:48 pm
The range is technically as much as a regular ‘petrol’ car since you can refuel it with petrol as much as you want.
What I want to know now is how efficient is burning petrol to generate electricity. How many km can the car go on electricity generated by 1 liter of petrol? That will bring is back to the old “km per liter” measurement.
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Agree….
p/s: reading your "note" make me thinking of errr….submarine… on dry land
why not a smaller petrol engine? 1.2L sounds big for a generator.
ive been thingking what about adding a wind turbine to help with the charging while the car moves in high speed..
since the extender range is similar to Lotus Evora Hybrid, I think the car can go 500km with a full tank. about the emission, since the engine is running on a low RPM,I think it will be much cleaner compare to a conventional car. Plus, it can runs on Ethanol and Methanol, so lower emissions there….
The range is technically as much as a regular ‘petrol’ car since you can refuel it with petrol as much as you want.
What I want to know now is how efficient is burning petrol to generate electricity. How many km can the car go on electricity generated by 1 liter of petrol? That will bring is back to the old “km per liter” measurement.
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I agree with you on this… the generator efficiency will matters a lot since the fuel tank capacity i think will be a lot smaller…
If the generator can generate a lot of electricity per litre, then the power required to move the car must also be highly efficient…
Dear Two_Face,
At least Proton had shown something rather nothing…The map is there..just for them to carefully drive according to it..It doesn't mean from now onwards they can seat down and enjoy the achievement..but nevertheless it's something that will spur & encourage them to work harder & better in showing that a Malaysian Co. is striving for a better future of industry & humanity by reducing pollution…
For Proton – Good Luck…Hope It won't stop here….
Proton is no longer a national car, but a global car. That is what they are heading to now.
Nice.. Agree with what drex chan said. 1.2 sounds large. Viva only 660. May b de power generated needs to b more than de amount using by the car so that it can be charged until its full while driving.
I think it is a very good choice to get 1.2liter engine as generator. It has suffice power to run the generator. Without gearbox and its additional resistance from clutch etc, we probably dealing with pure 50hp as claimed to run the generator. Hence will be efficient. Good decision not to run the wheel by the engine.
Anything smaller than 1.2 liter my not suffice to power up the car. And since most malaysian are lazy to charge (this has yet become a habit) i reckon most malaysian will simple pour in gas to run the car and let it charge the battery. Hence appropriate size for the engine is required
I think 50k on single charge is simply enough, remember compare apple to apple this is not an eletric car. With electric car, once you run out of batt, u be dead stuck…not on this car.best of both world.
I have seen the picture. The interior look amazing, but doesnt look production ready. Fancy and i wish they will produce 1 : 1 but doubt it
I think only one of the model will appear on our road, perhaps the EMAS itself, not the other range, however i believe part of the motive behind the introduction is to learn the market feedback especially on the design language and the hybrid system
I think future proton will very much reflected by EMAS model. The facelifted Persona , Gen-2 and he the upcoming Waja and Perdana 2011 and beyond will have the design language as EMAS. Expect future proton to be amazingly spacious despite the outer size of the car. Talking about stretching your limit.
Also we would probably see the future proton with sexier curve.Not exectly like fiery curve BMW on bangle era, but something cleaner but muscular look. The Italian know better how to sculpture their car.
In the future, Proton should be able to compete more fairly with Hyundai, Kia, Honda, Toyota and probably Seat and Skoda. We dont really expect to compete with BMW , Merc and AUdi…what is the point ? Proton are not luxury car maker….
at below 100k, I think we can soon be riding a better ride…provided we can pay off our heavily financed current proton that we get stuck with for at least 7 years…(After 5 years paying our ass off, we still owe more than the current value of the car…damn it)
Later Malaysian need more Electrical Engineer…
Foreman no more do the dirty oily job in workshop…
The real question is:
1) Will it be cheaper to run on plug in power? We all know how tariffs are such that the more electricity you use the higher tariff you pay…
2) Is it really greener? Plug in power still comes from good ol coal.
Is electrical ready need a lot of power to move? rady need 1200 cc engine? 600 cc, kacil engine cannot generate enough power to the generator mer?
SO Pault, beside how many KM can a little petrol power the generator, we also need to know how much the electric bill for that 3 hours charging to move 50KM right?
And, this is a intereting and inovative try, engine generate power for the motor to run instead of gear box to move the car….
Good try… So, Cn we get it at RM 30K ah?
the first will be lotus evora launching this year ? the engine is ready for production.
Dear Paul,
Does the EMAS equipped with Energy Recovery systems?
Firstly, thanks to PaulTan for giving a very good explaination on how the range extender system works.
It is good to see that Proton is working on moving forwards with new technologies. As for the question “would you like this to be the future of Proton”, yes I definately would. I would consider using a car like this for my daily runabout.
And Casta, just ignore Two_Face. "Geniuses" like him can see the future with chilling accuracy. For people like him, only cutting edge technology with a Merc or BMW badge is considered acceptable.
oh and, the Jaguar XJ series hybrid 2011 will be using Lotus Range extender engine. so proton is heading for a global success. It can use ethanol, methanol and/or petrol. designed for fast production.
But then I still wonder, if this is practical, why when man first invent car, not motor but gear box?
I also think that 1.2L is too big for a generator. At the extreme, a small Honda genset in the front should by right be sufficient to "bring you home". One more think – why not make it diesel?
Nevertheless, I think the concept is brilliant. I like it. If its patented, perhaps other manufacturers may also be interested to buy the patent.
well done proton. This is exactly what are malaysian waiting to see.. Really hope can bring this EMAS into production & sell it below 80k.
Anyway paul, what happen to campro hibrid tested with gen2 eve?
i think lotus should develop 2cylinder motorbike engine like kawasaki zzr250 engine…small,very light weight and quite powerfull at 31bhp…
even normal pasar malam generator can run on 80cc single cylinder generator…..
so in theory u can get fuel consumption of a bike while driving a car instead….
in addition….just develop the diesel version of that 2cylinder engine for low rpm torque application best for generator…..
how was that?
Later Malaysian need more Electrical Engineer…
Foreman no more do the dirty oily job in workshop…
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CayaNunAlif, how difficult is that?
ha! what will happen the E.V.E'S?
AlexYoong (if that's you), think diesel-electric submarines.
Seen many also think that 1.2cc is too large to act as a generator..
i myself think that too…
660cc shd be sufficient..
yes, someone point out that why not make it diesel?
is much more cleaner and greener…
EMAS is a nice n functional city car.. if PROTON can sell it below RM40k..
a lot of white mice are willing to test it out for u proton..
PS: I'm one of them!! haha…
It's smart in any possible way.
Fyi , 80cc pasar malam generator are 2 stroke engine, yes.. it's lousy and noisy. the sound are loud. and smokey here and there. Some more need 2T oil. And i believe it sound funny for a car!. (the best 2 stroke engine only on Aprilia!)
I do believe, 1.2cc engine is far better than 660in viva kancil bla bla. Beside of the high output of KW, bigger engine are longer life span usually.
Actually, i wonder.. how come a 1.2 engine are lighter than 660 engine of viva etc? I surely viva engine are over than 50kg even exclude the gearbox!. Even magically.. a 1000cc of kawasaki Zx6r something something easily reach over that weight.
ya.. it's surely basic engine.. no gearbox, nor old drive shaft. less part, less maintenance.
Surely this is an option for the expensive battery. before we got a solution of cheaper and good battery… this is the really super best option. When there come a better battery. JUST UPGRADE! and upgrade the motor tooo.. 0-100kmh under 5 seconds. Ok what?
Faster! Make it into production!
The reason why Lotus uses 1.2 L engine for its Extender Engine is to give sufficient charging time so that the electric motor will get enough energy to run the wheel. So no energy depletion during long journey drive will be in a case. And when it comes into mass production of this car within the next 2 yrs, to cut more cost in production line, Proton may use 1.2L Savvy/Renault engine that probably highly available in Tanjung Malim plant. Just my opinion.
now putting a 1.2 l engine as generator a problem? asking for a small one? so later when if put a small one.. you start asking if it enough to power the engine?????
asking if it greener since electricity generated using coal?? so none of the electric car is this world is green enough… be it toyota, honda, bmw, merc, tesla, smart etc… cuz electric generated from coal maaa…
ezralimm said,
March 3, 2010 @ 4:33 pm
2) Is it really greener? Plug in power still comes from good ol coal.
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Definitely. Coal electricity plants have higher efficiencies than a conventional petrol engine generator (think pasar malam genset or EMAS engine). We're talking 90+% vs 20+% efficiency
creative idea indeed…
the car generated by electric meanwhile the electric generated by car.
make it into production, sure it will sale well !
ouh and asking for price of 30k???? please la… stop being ridiculous… even a normal petrol car costs you more than 30k… can't remember any new car that is below 20k…. 2nd hand maybe…
ha3…upgrade the motor to 0-100km/h <5sec…i prefer to make all tyre to hav the motor, better response (all-wheel drive) but looking at current design, that would be a NO =.=
by da way, is the battery will continously be recharged while the engine is running? how long does it take to fully charge the battry via the generator?
-curious-
ada info mengatakan harga bawah RM50K.. harap, ia berbaloi dengan harga berkenaan, kerana banyak lagi model kompak dalam negara kita ni..
Hope proton put the motor at the rear to drive rear wheel, and the range extender at the front (of course la)……result, a 50:50 weight distribution RWD supermini
Well congrats goes to Italdesign-Giugiaro and Lotus Technology for designing, building and producing in a good hybrid car for Proton but that’s all. I bet you they did not even test the car in our local roads over here, let alone looking at our weather conditions and how it will affect the car. Up to 2 years before production which means 2012 or 2013, shows the technology does not exist in Proton, they will need to outsource all the parts used in the car, 2 TFT monitors, side door mounting gadgets to close and open, and even the power seats for the car. Can you image the disaster when Proton is putting all these parts together over here. The technology is too advance for proton to even comprehend let alone follow instructions on how to build it. The video clip for the Proton Emas showed 4 white anoreksik girls going in the car to show how roomy it is, I mean it’s a small compact hybrid car, you don’t have to display big size cabin in the car to show how roomy it is, people will understand based on the design itself. From the pictures, the quality looks really good but again, when it all comes over here, can’t even image how the quality will be like let alone the price. The only smart thing proton did is pay a huge sum of money to Italdesign-Giugiaro to design the hybrid car and using Lotus Technology from there to get the car moving. I start to wonder wat did our local proton engineers and developers do for this but one look shows not very much involvement from our local people, only money was pump in to show how great and far Proton can think off not realizing all those money are from our people who are force to keep funding and buying horrible quality and bad cars from them. If proton were smart, sell the hybrid car to another car manufacturer for a much higher price maintaining ownership of using Lotus Technology for it thus making royalty money for every car sold. Now that would be kudos to proton for investing and actually making money rather than screwing our local people with crap cars. What do you all think ??
Already did that…..ive just read hehe
Malaysia is very hot, perhaps can take advantage to adapt solar power source on the roof….maybe i can sleep in the car in hot afternoon with air conditioning without starting the engine
ezralimm said,
March 3, 2010 @ 4:33 pm
The real question is:
1) Will it be cheaper to run on plug in power? We all know how tariffs are such that the more electricity you use the higher tariff you pay…
2) Is it really greener? Plug in power still comes from good ol coal.
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1) electric car = 1-3sen/km, petrol = 12-18sen/km, if no subsidy could be 20-30sen/km for petrol.
2) electric does not come from coal only, and powerplants are also equiped with much better filters than cars. Malaysia is now heading towards nuclear and solar energy. besides, the engine can also burn methanol and ethanol, the cheapest renewable energy!
Proton, hybrid system has been around since a looooooooooong time…..
Please don't harp here and there, as though you are the only manufacturer that does hybrids. Other car companies have been producing hybrid cars, and are seen driven on road worldwide….ages ago…I think this is lapuk news la….
And in today's newspaper, proton claimed they are the global level player pulak…..adushhhh…..Just look at homeground (Malaysia), with their quality control still sucks big time….and now wanna be global player ka??
ya haaaaa…………
the closest thing to a range extender that's coming soon (should be this year i think) would be the Chevy Volt. It works on a similar concept. In fact it's also using a 1.3L engine to power the generator.
Let see if Lotus and Proton can get a good small enough battery as the battery in the Chevy Volt looks HUGE!….
then again the Volt was designed as a Sedan while this is a City Car. So I do personally believe that we should be able to fit in a smaller capacity engine just like some suggestions in previous comments
All this is hangat2x tahi ayam
after all the hooplah we get nothing at the end of the day.
Good ego booster for P1 but after that we have yet
to see or hear where P1 is heading to.
Neverthelessl i hope that there will be some sort of JV
from this motorshow to spearhead P1 forward.
No use investing millions but at the end of the day
your product ,no matter how good it is – doesn't sell.
All the best P1 !!
Nems,
Lotus is a brand of Proton. As simple as that. See it in any way you like, it is owned by Proton. There are great cars which were designed by design studio like Italdesign, Pininfarina and Ghia. Even Lotus Esprit was designed by Giugiaro. If you really understand how the automotive world works, you'll sure never going to waste your time writing that pointless comment.
Paul Tan,
Have you check how they run the air-cond compressor?. Did they use the power from the rear Electric Motor or is it coming from the 1.2cc Engine. Just curious.
How much is the capacity of the fuel tank? By knowing the capacity, and fuel consumption to generate electricity to run (liter per km), we can estimate the range for this car should it be used for a balik kampung journey.
I cant find that info.
first of all i want to know why italdesign want to design a concept car for proton? they even put EMAS at their front page website. claiming it is as a new segment. someone commented about power window failure, not suitable for our country and bla,bla,bla… didnt italdesign see what this people (basher) are talking about.? it can tarnish italdesign name and reputation. the car are soo advance but have power window problem. are italdesign so stupid? or the basher are the stupid one? there must something that italdesign can see that the basher cant see. that is why they are called italdesign-a successful company.
and secondly, there are some commenter asking for a price 50k, 40k and even a ridiculously 30k. can i ask you back.
how much is viva elite 1.0Ezi?
how much is myvi 1.3 se ee or whatever it is?
are dvvt much more advance than this hybrid range extender?
Another failed project by proton.Not intend to sell here in Malaysia.Better name it as LEMAS rather than EMAS.
Another BOX car.PROTON has not achieved anything for 25 years except conning the poor rakyat.So does this EMAS model.Looks so BOXXY
I strongly believe this is the best option for future. The others hybrid is just tooooo inefficient at all.
A big as bus T Prius & Honda whatever hybrid are look nonsense for me. To move big and heavy car you already burn too much gas. A small car like this are 100 times better.
As a city car, who need big size? If you asking trouble for fat ahso and makcik to use this. Go to hell fat ahso and fat makcik!. They should buy a lorry instead.
2 years to make this car into production is a very well timeline. 1st, they already had the technology BUT they have to do thousands time test! Surely being bashed by stupid basher if a product not well tested to be market. (Oh! Unless it Toyota, even stuck-paddle-to-death also defended by their blind and stupid supporter!).
Meanwhile, as many said here. I think the most problematic thingy the have in mind is about the aircond. Sigh… have to admit that. Such current aircond technologies not efficient enough. And aircondition that running very cold with little electric usage such…. imposible.
Maybe a proton 'friends' in Korea will do something. LG as well as electronics related company that have something with auto industri, they might be have something. Well.. that might only a zero hope. lol.
Bashers story :
If T doing something similiar like this. = Hell great bla bla ejaculation.
Then asking to the air. Why proton not doing this bla bla bla. stupid proton bla bla.
When proton doing this emas, they will said.
Oh this that, waste, tax wtf wth powerwindow etc…
WTF! GTH bashers!. I had my tax money in Gov too! And I dont care if my tax spend to the something like this! And wishing it will lower down global warming especially in Malaysia.
Try off you aircond then open your car window. It was damn hot hot hot hot at afternoon nowadays!.
Nems said,
March 3, 2010 @ 6:59 pm
Well congrats goes to Italdesign-Giugiaro and Lotus Technology for designing, building and producing in a good hybrid car for Proton but that’s all. I bet you they did not even test the car in our local roads over here, let alone looking at our weather conditions and how it will affect the car. Up to 2 years before production which means 2012 or 2013, shows the technology does not exist in Proton, they will need to outsource all the parts used in the car, 2 TFT monitors, side door mounting gadgets to close and open, and even the power seats for the car. Can you image the disaster when Proton is putting all these parts together over here. The technology is too advance for proton to even comprehend let alone follow instructions on how to build it. The video clip for the Proton Emas showed 4 white anoreksik girls going in the car to show how roomy it is, I mean it’s a small compact hybrid car, you don’t have to display big size cabin in the car to show how roomy it is, people will understand based on the design itself. From the pictures, the quality looks really good but again, when it all comes over here, can’t even image how the quality will be like let alone the price. The only smart thing proton did is pay a huge sum of money to Italdesign-Giugiaro to design the hybrid car and using Lotus Technology from there to get the car moving. I start to wonder wat did our local proton engineers and developers do for this but one look shows not very much involvement from our local people, only money was pump in to show how great and far Proton can think off not realizing all those money are from our people who are force to keep funding and buying horrible quality and bad cars from them. If proton were smart, sell the hybrid car to another car manufacturer for a much higher price maintaining ownership of using Lotus Technology for it thus making royalty money for every car sold. Now that would be kudos to proton for investing and actually making money rather than screwing our local people with crap cars. What do you all think ??
>>>Hmm… so u reckon Proton/Lotus should sell to let's say Toyota la. Then, when Toyota wants to bring it to Msia (if and only if UMW are more concerned abt the environment than profit), it'll get taxed as a Toyota. But yet, the tech behind the car is ours (Hey, Lotus is 100% owned by Proton what). How fucked up would u feel then? Oh, at least better quality… really? I wonder… kang keter tu datang dgn SAP pulak hohoho
How ironic… u think Proton the way it is is screwing our arse but not the foreigners cuz kononnya proton treat foreigners 1st class. Yet, if according to your fairy tale 'solution', the foreigners will still screw us anyway with "high tax" as an excuse. Wouldn't buy this car if it goes above RM100k, would we?
Look at Honda, recently increase price without telling why. It can't be tax, cuz if it is, then ALL will be affected equally.
A lot of Malaysian ready got blain washed by our big G lor.. RM30K is not possile for such a small car.. and so call safe a lot when not using VVT, gear box and e.t.c
If we still thin that Viva should price RM40K, then why Tata make a car that cost less than RM 10K? Tata nano is USD 3K, which converted to RM 11,000.
So, RM 30K for this small car, still not possible? It is not we askign too low price, it P never reach teh global volume and no economics of scale….
Yeah, saw the designer car or rather a conceptual ones. Whether it can really go into production, god knows. My first car was a saga in the late eighties. My second, years later was also a saga and I later sold it and got a Waja, which the latter, I recently sold after 7 years and changed to a Honda City. I have supported malaysian cars untill recently. Along those early years, proton was a saga of failure to live to its name. It was a good car to go from point A to B and back and that actually was a mitsubhishi rebadged. But during those years of owning saga, proton was unable to even solve the problem of always broken latches, made of cheap plastics together with saga doors and body bubbling with rusts years later and the same problem persisted to the waja which I later own plus the power windows crumbles which were also made with cheap plastics. Yeah for 25 years, it has made cars due to protection by the malaysian government it refused to hear what the public complains and at the workshop all mechanics including the proton ones will tell you that we can't expect much from a proton, a local car, quality must be assumed to be inferior. Looking at its history and with the returned of TDM as adviser and plus his crony in the company, all of this concept is a hype and trying to pull wool in the eyes of car buyers that they will improved on quality and complying to international standards. The fact is the base market for proton is in malaysia and among those unable to afford an imported brand.
Proton cannot afford to fail in the international arena and it can afford to in the local market. The local market can sucked up to all its failure as the malaysian tax payers pay for it. So I do not believe all the bulls commented in the recent press conference. Once again the malaysian public will become guinea pigs to another new launched of half baked version that do not comply with international quality standards as cost recovery remained the first priority in any car maker. What more a easy market to manipulate through a helpless public and a stubborn government dictated by a senile old man who have lost rationality and good reason. I could off course dealt on the price of CKD unit of imported cars excluding duty would be much of better value compare to a proton.Having a concept car without competative pricing in the international arena also spelled suicidal for proton.
I hope Paul you can published this as passenger car users had been conned for 25 years in buying substandard and expensive local cars.Please respect freedom of expression even you have allegiance to a local car producer.
Wheeluser: You are funny, you accuse me of having an 'allegiance' to a local car company and then you ask me if you can use this non-public platform to spread your propaganda. Do you insult a person first before going into their house to have a drink? How very rude of you. If your accusation was true, I would be there in Geneva getting first hand info but unfortunately we do not have a Proton invite. Danny managed to get onto Geneva grounds thanks to BUFORI. Just because I don't use this blog to whine about power window problems a few times a day in an unproductive way doesn't mean you can accuse us of something like that.
seem proton just rush to geneva wihout the whole running machine..maybe just to show their 1'st hibric..but the technical teory just plain..empty
vbkcheng said,
March 3, 2010 @ 9:34 pm
A lot of Malaysian ready got blain washed by our big G lor.. RM30K is not possile for such a small car.. and so call safe a lot when not using VVT, gear box and e.t.c
If we still thin that Viva should price RM40K, then why Tata make a car that cost less than RM 10K? Tata nano is USD 3K, which converted to RM 11,000.
So, RM 30K for this small car, still not possible? It is not we askign too low price, it P never reach teh global volume and no economics of scale….
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what the heck? comparing tata nano with this? such a short-minded. well, go check the spec of tata nano. would u like to ride on a motorbike with 4 wheels? that's tata nano
nudin said,
March 3, 2010 @ 9:56 pm
seem proton just rush to geneva wihout the whole running machine..maybe just to show their 1’st hibric..but the technical teory just plain..empty
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nudin, there's a video presentation of the car and the car is drivable! u r too malas to check but rajin to bashing here & there. i bet u wouldn't believe me if i tell u that the engine/motor technology is capable to sprint 0-100kmh in 4 seconds. well, u just like to make assumptions and only like to listen to bad things. no wonder Malaysia progress is so slow, because of people like u.
Look like an 'concept car' of the 90's…
vbkcheng…
can i ask you what is there to compare tata nano and this proton hybrid?
four tyres?
steering?
doors?
seats?
heck, tata nano dont even have radio and dont mention about hybrid system.
with all the gadgets and equipments in EMAS it dont justify 30k mark.
do you think bcoz it dont have gear box it should cost less?
it's not bout brain wash by gov, but being reality. cos it national made so it should be dead cheap? even plain saga the most cheap car in aus are cost 37k.
and car with vvt are safe? since when is vvt included in NCAP rating or a safety mecanism? actually you are the one being blinded by toyota.
i wonder how am i going to charge proton emas when i'm living in 23rd floor and my car park is located within 2-3mins of walking distance time?
LMAO;… this thread is getting hillarious.
Even the name tata nano gets brought up. lol.
mofaz said,
March 3, 2010 @ 7:04 pm
1) electric car = 1-3sen/km, petrol = 12-18sen/km, if no subsidy could be 20-30sen/km for petrol.
=================================
Those figures dont make sense. You're saying that an electric car can get from Ipoh to KL (200km) with only RM2-RM6 worth of electricity. As efficient as coal plants are… unless there is abundant… really abundant free hydro or thermal energy… I dont see that ever becoming a reality.
some people are just plain rude….sigh…what happen the moral lesson you've learn at school?
yeah…Wheeluser, you're really a funny man. i hope you dont mind if im laughing at you. hahahaha….
seriously, you're funny. two thumbs up…
err..to proton EMAS i mean.
suddenly i feel basher run out of idea and best of all the comment are really funny.. learn more kids.. dont spread fake news :)
Proton should have made Proton Juara into a hybrid car, now that would have turn some heads in Geneva Motor Show 2010 ….coz that has proton technology from years of wonderful design written all over them. Maybe remove the roof top or solar power roof top…….One Proton … One Malaysia !!
Mysticmind said,
March 3, 2010 @ 5:34 pm
Actually, i wonder.. how come a 1.2 engine are lighter than 660 engine of viva etc? I surely viva engine are over than 50kg even exclude the gearbox!. Even magically.. a 1000cc of kawasaki Zx6r something something easily reach over that weight.
———-
It is quite possible. Maybe it is an all-aluminium engine block. :-)
gotodmc38 said,
March 3, 2010 @ 10:37 pm
i wonder how am i going to charge proton emas when i’m living in 23rd floor and my car park is located within 2-3mins of walking distance time?
————
Looks like there will be business opportunities for electrical installations in ALL car parks….
ezralimm,
1-3sen/km is old figure quoted by Detroit Electric (during proton-detroit possible partnership). by now it could be more, could be less but not by far margin. I don't know the power (watt) required to charge the battery, but let's assume 1000watt, then in 3 hours it cost only 66sen, and with 66sen you could go 50km. which is less than 1.5sen/km.
yes, it is possible to go 1000km with just 10litre (RM18), or Ipoh-KL with just 2 litres if the technology is comparable to Chevy Volt (230mpg or 98km/litre).
electricity from hydro dam will cause more damage to our forest and eco-systems. the greatest power source on earth is solar. The amount of solar energy reaching the surface of the earth in one year is about twice as much as will ever be obtained from all coal, oil, natural gas, and uranium combined. we receive more energy in one hour than the world used in one year. so, if you have adequate solar energy system at your house, your travelling cost everyday could be totally FREE!.
vbkcheng said,
March 3, 2010 @ 4:38 pm
Is electrical ready need a lot of power to move? rady need 1200 cc engine? 600 cc, kacil engine cannot generate enough power to the generator mer?
SO Pault, beside how many KM can a little petrol power the generator, we also need to know how much the electric bill for that 3 hours charging to move 50KM right?
And, this is a intereting and inovative try, engine generate power for the motor to run instead of gear box to move the car….
Good try… So, Cn we get it at RM 30K ah?
________________________________________________________________________
Is there a quoting feature here??
Even though this engine is 1200cc but it should be lighter than a kancil engine as its designed to be light and only operate at one or 2 fixed low rpm's.
If you can charge the car fully using a regular home socket in 3 hours then
Our regular socket at home should be able to output below 13 Amperes
Power = Voltage * Amperes
=240V * 13A
= 3120W
3 hours, therefore we get 3 * 3.12KW = 9.36KWh
Might be less because I don't know the Amperage, only know that it should be below13A
Rates depend on total electricity usage, lets assume 30 cents
Cost = 9.36 * 0.3
= RM 2.81
Range with full charge = 50km
Therefore cost per km = 2.81/50
= RM0.056
gotodmc38 said,
March 3, 2010 @ 10:37 pm
i wonder how am i going to charge proton emas when i’m living in 23rd floor and my car park is located within 2-3mins of walking distance time?
_________________________________________________
i don't see it as impossible, given the fact that the engine is charging the car battery. you could drive while the engine charging the battery too. in fact, this system is much better than fully electric car. due to this, i don't think Emas3 is a good choice for those staying in condo/apartments, because it's a fully electric car.
it also can be use petrol..
huwaaahhh… electric car is boring… go for vtec!
There you are, Paul you have said its a "propaganda" of what I have said showed your baised outlooked and tendency to lean towards defending proton. Its a fact that proton cars are overpriced and lower quality and no propaganda.The fact is even Rafidah Aziz had commented on the troubled proton cars and parts before.
Where have I defended Proton in that comment or said that Proton has no quality problem? You are just desperate to prove your baseless accusation was correct.
There you go again Paul , showed again your baisedness that what I had expressed was baseless.
I am not saying you remarks about Proton quality issues were baseless, I am saying your accusation about me being having an 'allegiance' with a 'local car company' is baseless. It's simple English dude :)
zeo said,
March 3, 2010 @ 7:34 pm
Proton, hybrid system has been around since a looooooooooong time…..
Please don’t harp here and there, as though you are the only manufacturer that does hybrids. Other car companies have been producing hybrid cars, and are seen driven on road worldwide….ages ago…I think this is lapuk news la….
And in today’s newspaper, proton claimed they are the global level player pulak…..adushhhh…..Just look at homeground (Malaysia), with their quality control still sucks big time….and now wanna be global player ka??
——————
they want to achieve that la bro better n gud quality car…y angry..if they r global automatically they will n must increase quality..don u wan that my fren
i really dont understand wheeluser. reply like a kid. just dumb. paul, ignore this idiot
Wheeluser, you are too much. This is Paul's blog. I have been following this blog years already. I have no problem with proton or perodua. If you dont like the car, just don't buy it. Proton doesnt force you to buy them.
some people's english just suck.
plain cant understand and cant convey correct thoughts in the language.
bottom line – wheeluser, you suck.
the car rocks btw.
tsk tsk… ini semua kerja orang gila punya… paul tan? Allegiance? o lolz
shokubeni said,
March 3, 2010 @ 4:08 pm
ive been thingking what about adding a wind turbine to help with the charging while the car moves in high speed..
——————————
haha!!..the most creative comment so far…but thats not practical enuff..what happens when ur in a traffic jam and the car only starts stop in a few seconds??..
see how this Emas concept car is spurring peoples creativity out of them..how bout this one – a stowable paddle under each 3 passengers seat (think of the paddle boat in Genting where you have to cycle them like a bicycle??)..each passenger can cycle the paddle whenever they want, to charge the batteries..think of the benefit ull get with this system huh..a healthy family and a healthy pocket…and thats what you call a classic hybrid..
Dear Paul, let Wheeluser say what ever he/she or shim want to say. Its free country and you can say anything he/she or shim want to say.. I've been working with people for so many years domestic and international…1 think I can say about most Malaysian… talk too much.. do too less… or know how to talk only,.. dont know how to do it… (cakap tak serupa bikin). Come on Malaysia wake up… we are left behind way way behind now….. don't depend on foreign things.. if you don't like what u see then invent yourself…. period
zeo, this is not conventional hybrid like priuses or civic hybrid…thats why its called range extender..
Malaysians are the most weird and unpatriotic bunch of people that I have ever come across. Finnish people for example are fiercely proud that they produce ergonomically designed scissors! If you can see a Korean movie, you'll notice that foreign cars are virtually non existent on the roads and I heard they only use LG and samsung phones. For a small and developing country like Malaysia
to produce cars is like a dream that would never come true to most other nations of similar background. Even big players like Toyota have constant
faults, check the latest recall on Prius http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8505402.stm
almost half a million cars recalled! I have a French friend who just wears lacoste shirts and drive Renault despite working here in the UK. I think Malaysians are mindless savages. I really admire the Malaysians who have achieved this great feat with proton and other things but sadly I must say that the self bashing malaysians are mindless savages that truly not deserve to live in Malaysia.
oh god pls let someone somewhere write a software that can auto-filter out idiotic ramblings.
would make the world a better place.
u know that this is cleanest hybrid in the market compared to prius and insight when it hits the market.
LOL ….
Found this on the net …. how true …. :D :D :D
http://dailyshite.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/…
(hope the URL works)
The idea itself is good and sound. It has been implemented in a different scale before e.g. submarines. So the idea is workable.
The only opportunities will be:
1) User smaller thus cheaper engine/generator that will reduce the overall cost of the car.
2) Open the possibility of using other source of energy e.g. solar and wind to also contribute towards charging the battery. Thus can establish a grid in the car and one can plug into the grid.
3) Charging methods.
If the reports of Jaguar is to use the Lotus extender is true, then we should not worry ourselves uselessly.
this blog have become a boxing ring. ting..ting.. TKO.. huhu.. come on guy's keep your manners. if you don't support proton, give a comment so that they can improve. don't make a baseless bash.. if you don't make any comment just keep your mouth close.. don't make anyone angry and don't accuse anyone personally.
i do really hope proton can success globally same as petronas.
I have a few concerns with regards to electric car practicality in a real world. In Malaysia context, especially.
I guess the Malaysia market for these electric car, especially the small one like Proton Emas would be the middle or middle-upper-class. The car would cost a bomb and lower-class citizen will find it almost impossible to own. I will not be surprise if the final-production ready version, cost RM80K or even more. Hard to predict but safe to say it will be much more expensive than your average Myvi.
Proton is wise to develop its own future car, nevertheless.
One of my concerns related to the type of homes/houses we live. Its quite ok if potential buyers live in a terrace house, bungalow, landed house in general.
But for potential buyers who lives in condominium, apartment etc (non-landed house), electric car such as i-MiEV or even the Proton Emas with Lotus Range Extender engine isn't a practical choice simply because these people don't have a wall socket or they leave on the 10th floor.
How to re-charge the battery using electricity?
Takkan nak pakai extension cable..
The only realistic option is at office building or open car parks but that is another story as we have zero infrastructure here and we never heard anybody say anything about it.. Who want to fork out the initial capital to made these places electric-car friendly..when there is no volume (of electric car) to serve and made profit from? And will electricity from these places be costly than electricity generated by the Proton Emas petrol engine? Full electric car have no option but to pay whatever the charges.
Thus electric car will not be for this group of people (who mostly are city dwellers, which i guess happen to be their obvious target market!) as at best, the electric car will have limited re-charging possibility. Unless of course, government or someone come out with brilliant idea (that will surely cost some money up front) that will allow non-landed house residents charged their EV at 'home'. Charging terminal at apartment parking lots anyone?
Until then, what is the point of buying (lets assumed) RM80K small electric car (A/B-segment car dimension) and use petrol to generate its electricity all the time (because their houses have no such thing as a wall socket)? Might as well use hydrocarbon-powered car instead, be it petrol or diesel.
And the 'future' electricity tariff will play a significant role in determining the real gain be it environmental or financial benefits of these cars. Will it be cheaper to generate the same amount of power (for the battery) using wall socket or the petrol engine?
And the thing about electricity tariff is… different house type have different tariff. I bet all the mosques, temples and perhaps schools will make brisk business as re-charging centre, as they pay one of the most lowest tariff for electricity (if the charging is possible via the standard wall socket, which i think/hope it isn't).
I do like the idea put up by Renault (if i am not mistaken) where you could buy/exchange your exhausted battery pack with a fresh one at 'battery' stations. Similar concept to having petrol station. Just pay for a 'new' battery pack.
Of course this EV models (they have wall socket features too) come with its own weaknesses and there are more fine details that need to be look at, but at least, 'juice' for the car don't depends on if your house have a wall socket or not (i.e. potential market is bigger).
ezralimm said…
LMAO;… this thread is getting hillarious.
Even the name tata nano gets brought up. lol.
mofaz said,
March 3, 2010 @ 7:04 pm
1) electric car = 1-3sen/km, petrol = 12-18sen/km, if no subsidy could be 20-30sen/km for petrol.
=================================
Those figures dont make sense. You’re saying that an electric car can get from Ipoh to KL (200km) with only RM2-RM6 worth of electricity. As efficient as coal plants are… unless there is abundant… really abundant free hydro or thermal energy… I dont see that ever becoming a reality.
————————————————————
even my 2004 gen2 cost me RM0.04 /km….UPM – airhitam (240km) cost me only RM10.00….
HEHEHEHHEHE…NGV of course…..dont believe me?…try ur self
Wheeluser, use your brain to think before comment any.
are you thinking with your ass or di*k?
St.George’sCross said,
March 4, 2010 @ 4:05 am
Malaysians are the most weird and unpatriotic bunch of people that I have ever come across. Finnish people for example are fiercely proud that they produce ergonomically designed scissors! If you can see a Korean movie, you’ll notice that foreign cars are virtually non existent on the roads
—————————————–
My observation 5 years ago yes only local cars. But now no more… I can see a lot of BMWs, Mercs, Japs, as well as local… No more hefty tax perhaps or maybe they r much richer now…
But I second you about Malaysian.. Im wondering what happen to our educ system nowadays….The product so mindless..and patriotism is non-existence..
Wheeluser pls think logically with brain, not with your asshole or di*k as you seems don't understand simple english.
gotodmc38 said,
March 3, 2010 @ 10:37 pm
i wonder how am i going to charge proton emas when i’m living in 23rd floor and my car park is located within 2-3mins of walking distance time?
———-
go to starbuck that is located near the roadside, buy a cup of coffee. open your laptop, but instead of charging your laptop, you charge your car.
MoFaz, nxid,
Open eye big big lar, I say tata nano is only RM11K, i am saying this Emas should be RM30K, is 11K compare direct with RM30K mer?
What I try to say is, 4 wheel can go as low as that….you add in some more spec, it will still lower than RM30K right?
Take other example lar, In Europe, those small car (e.g. 207) is selling at around than EUR7.5K, you convert it to RM, it should be around 37K….Some Japanese compact car is cost around RM30K…
SO, if proton is the car for Malaysia, target to get it around RM30K lar…
WE all Malaysia always got "KOn" one…
Saga was lunch at RM 18K.. later become RM30K….
THen, THe P2 Kancil basic spec soem at RM 18K… very soon, become RM24K…before kancil been replace by Viva, it is RM30K lior….
If our Tun Vision is materialise, we shall get car better and cheaper….
Not what we get today…
What did they make a compact concept car? P1 should make a sedan concept.
NickL, THanks for the detail calculation,
SO, 5.6 cent per KM…cheap and good for environment….
BTW, Diesel car can contribute to RM 0.08 per KM…it just that the resource still not as environment friendly as Elecetric and it is limited…
NickL said,
March 3, 2010 @ 11:49 pm
Is there a quoting feature here??
Even though this engine is 1200cc but it should be lighter than a kancil engine as its designed to be light and only operate at one or 2 fixed low rpm’s.
If you can charge the car fully using a regular home socket in 3 hours then
Our regular socket at home should be able to output below 13 Amperes
Power = Voltage * Amperes
=240V * 13A
= 3120W
3 hours, therefore we get 3 * 3.12KW = 9.36KWh
Might be less because I don’t know the Amperage, only know that it should be below13A
Rates depend on total electricity usage, lets assume 30 cents
Cost = 9.36 * 0.3
= RM 2.81
Range with full charge = 50km
Therefore cost per km = 2.81/50
= RM0.056
__________________________________________________________________________
I will since the battery capacity is 11.47kWH and it should be draw about same amount from our socket the charge up the battery
Let say we charge everyday 11.47kWH x 30 day = 344kWH per month
For TNB is charge abt 25-30 cent per kWh
SO it is abt RM 85-105 per month :)
First of all,
Why some of you in this blog always compared this concept car with the car that already in road… Read back Paul blog, he already said this is a concept car.. it still need more test and renovation before go on road… so why are some of you become so stupid to compare it with on road car.. ??
P/s: for those who are "not confident" with what proton do, can you give me a case where proton stupid problem like "poor power window" can cause death to passenger?? as long as I know no death case reported due to poor power window compared to what toyota did… already caused death…
Someone ask about E.V.E, as long as I know it's not hybrid car or concept car yet. Even the hybrid engine use to that Gen-2 is not the new hybrid engine. As far as I know proton employed that hybrid engine to see whether hybrid engine applicable to be use in current proton car and whether its functioning well in this country condition. If you follow E.V.E news, they also test in Malaysian Road. For me this is a good choice and one of cost saving plan.. Why? If proton directly produce concept car with new hybrid engine and test in road—> finally see lots of problem, it will directly cost them too much. But using ordinary hybrid apply to Gen-2 first to see whether it's suitable in Malaysian condition or not, it's already save some cost they.
I also have problem with my proton car but it doesn't prevent me to support it. It's not wrong if you complain with proton car but do not hate your own country product. Yes proton cars always have a problem but do something.. complain to them and give a suggestion.. Young engineers should have an idea to solve it. But sadly, whenever proton try to make some improvement this person will say, it didn't go anywhere, poor car, bla… bla… bla without try to do anything to improve it… Are this person really Malaysian People?? If you're malaysian people, I bet you don't want to see this scenario continue… Some people really think they are too clever saying that this project will wasting tax payer money, peoples money, bla.. bla… bla, but did you know most of tax payer money waste when your buy imported product?? How?? think about it?? (This question is for those who always became negative thinker whenever malaysian company try to be global)…
Just ignored this newbies wheeluser I don't think he/she even know what he/she is talking…I've surfing Paultan for years…no bias or allegiance what so ever..
St.George’sCross,
I don't know if Samsung, LG, Hyundai, keep asking they G to protech them, pam in money and secure them….If yes, 10 years protection since is more than enough right?
But In Bolehland, Our G tax other maker car high to make the P and P2 look cheap.. it find for me if it is 10 years….
But, it been 25 years, and all those inferior quality, those politic influrence and e.t.c…
And see, now Tun tell us that the project is contribute the country billion from tax….
I am not accountant, but then, I am rational to know that, that billion of tax can still be collected without P1 or P2… We can still tax car hihg and get the income, then choice only few model which is good and cheap to be tax free for those lower income group…
Would that more economic sense than continue pump in hundred and hundred million to P1?
good..i hope proton make for sedan soon.. keep up teamwork k!!!
gotodmc38 said,
March 3, 2010 @ 10:37 pm
i wonder how am i going to charge proton emas when i’m living in 23rd floor and my car park is located within 2-3mins of walking distance time?
________________________
Hmmmm… a really really long extension chord? :D
Successful troll is successful.
vbkcheng…. is peugot 207 hybrid car? where did you get euro7.5k? its 9.9k pounds sterling in UK (around 45k)…
I wonder if Proton can actually troubleshoot that kind of car? U know their DNA la.
St George I agree with you, malaysians' minset are very poor. They don't have any patriotisme left in their heart. They always worshipped imported material rather than local material. I dont say that we cannot owned any of imported things because its your money, but plz dont bashing around local product as they were sucks big time! If u want to bash local product, plz dont be the Malaysian citizen and be another countries' citizen.
love u paul..! hope to hear more about our local cars..
I make a simple comment..
bmpower, as now DC compressor aka. inverter has been on market so the power usage to pump the air-cond could be minimize, as the car travelling not much power needed to cool the car compared to house-type unit.
About the consumption an less pollutions, it will be much better to go for diesel as diesel can run on organic matters eg. oil palm and the proven record with same liter of petrol can run much longer distance.
And I think the 'power windows' dilemma on EMAS can be minimize, as the side windows to be open can be minimize..lol..
MoFaz said "so, if you have adequate solar energy system at your house, your travelling cost everyday could be totally FREE!".
Thanks MoFaz for bringing this up. I used very little electricity, so didn't have any justification to install solar panel. But if I have this car.. maybe it is worthwhile to install. Something to seriously consider!
This could be my small contribution to reducing carbon emission..
Put Energizer Battery… Proven long lasting… ;p
To vbkcheng
First you must know the difference between big company like Hyundai, KIA etc.. with malaysian car company P1 and P2. Company like Hyundai is called chaebol or family-controlled corporate groups. Means from the beginning they didn't depends much on G support because they start with their own inisiatif. In malaysia you can compare it with Naza Group which is not depends much to G in their business. Meanwhile company like P1 and P2 was establish based on G funds.. thats why people will see G try to support this 2 company.
Also do not think korean car is too great. I've go to korea before. they have same problem like us.. Poor car for local distribution but good car for international trading.. But the best thing is their mindset that always support their car. For them if they didn't use their product, who else?? It's better for them to realize the problem first before others found. Neither P1, P2 nor others malaysian company will go global if their people mindset negative for their own product….
St.George’sCross said "Malaysians are the most weird and unpatriotic bunch of people that I have ever come across….I really admire the Malaysians who have achieved this great feat with proton and other things but sadly I must say that the self bashing malaysians are mindless savages that truly not deserve to live in Malaysia"
I agree with you 1000x. Tho not all Malaysians are like that (thank God!).
The bashers are generally the non-achievers. Nothing to contribute.. only knows how to complain…
vbkcheng said,
March 4, 2010 @ 9:51 am
St.George’sCross,
I don’t know if Samsung, LG, Hyundai, keep asking they G to protech them, pam in money and secure them….If yes, 10 years protection since is more than enough right?
But In Bolehland, Our G tax other maker car high to make the P and P2 look cheap.. it find for me if it is 10 years….
But, it been 25 years, and all those inferior quality, those politic influrence and e.t.c…
And see, now Tun tell us that the project is contribute the country billion from tax….
I am not accountant, but then, I am rational to know that, that billion of tax can still be collected without P1 or P2… We can still tax car hihg and get the income, then choice only few model which is good and cheap to be tax free for those lower income group…
Would that more economic sense than continue pump in hundred and hundred million to P1?
________________________
vbkcheng,
first of all, please cleanse you brain with all those negativities you had with our gov. any family, any company, any gov would surely protect their source of income and industries. why do you close your eye when america is protecting their big banks, AIA, Ford and some other big industries involving trillions of dollars but you choose to open your eyes so wide to look for some small effort done by malaysia gov to save the country as a whole. if you think you're so great in managing economy, please try apply for a post in Bank Negara and we'll listen to your plan. but remember, do not borrow money from IMF.
another thing is, please check how long Kia, Honda, Toyota had existed before they went global. previously, they only cater the local market and foreign cars are sooo expansive. we don't know what kind of problem they had in the past (faulty brakes, faulty power window, faulty padle, etc) as internet is not widely used by bashers to spread all those negative thinking like now.
last but not least, please improve your english before showing off like you're the only one who knows everything and how to manage the whole country.
I don't care if it is family own or what… as long as that company is not drawing tax player money and put in those "BIG" idea think and trying to convience us that the billion that go to them is worth it…..
Hyundai and Kia is improve so much… they are about the same time like Proton start, they are the same as us, work with Mits to start….
So, where are we? and where are them?
Naza, nothing to prouf about lar…they are no diff with P1. THe only diff is, they are making use of the AP to gain the fun to build their plant, when cannot sell, ask government to lover their tax and e.t.c…
Pls be remind that either the fun is from EPF or from AP, it is the people money… it is the tax prayer money …..
Eyesore,
that is the basic model, not hybrid… if want to fair compare , may be we shall ask if Saga, Gen2, Personnal can sell at RM 30K?
Btw, those price I mentioned was in their home land, France, and I see Spain also selling at those price region…..
In Boleh land, we tax people car very expensive, then make P1 and P2 look cheaper…
IF no tax involve, do you believe a 1.6 conti car price at RM 40K region?
To Paul, just ignore this person already.. you have the rights because this your own blog.. we'll support you… :-)
To wheeluser, so after 25 years you change from proton to honda eh… so sad.. you know what? I'm just use an old iswara (manufacture date 1992), still in good condition until now.. very satisfied… you know what? proton car same with other car too.. if you take care it, it'll be always in good condition.. don't "gatal-gatal" modified it lor..
Yes lar, Proton not facing the problem of what Toyota is facing… but bear in mind wor, our car technology is something that people aldreay tried 10 years and we start here… copy also cannot make it right…
The main problem of P1 is not that cannot make it, but they have to allow a group of blood sucker to share the fat and make their price expensive, poor quality….Ali Baba company that take up 50% profit of the parts, what future P1 can have?
Sorry Paul, This I qoute from other Car&Driver Mag that review P1 new unborn baby, If u dont't mind…… :)
=============================================
"Alfa Romeo. Maserati. BMW. Bugatti. Ferrari. Those are just a few of the nameplates with which the Giugaro name has been associated. You can now add Proton to the list. (Of course, the list also includes less luminescent brands like Hyundai, De Lorean, and Isuzu.)
The name “Emas” is Malay for “gold,” and also stands for Eco Mobility Advanced Solutions. The Eco part of the name is represented by the various possible powertrains, which include plug-in hybrid and pure-electric systems. The plug-in hybrid system was developed by Lotus and mates a 51-hp, 1.2-liter three-cylinder engine with a 101-hp electric motor and an 11.5-kWh lithium-ion battery pack.
There were three cars on display at the Geneva auto show, but only one was mostly real. That would be the Emas Comfort, a four-seat, five-door hatchback that Giugaro and Proton say delivers the interior volume of a D-segment car or crossover—think Mazda 6 or CX-7—in the exterior space of an A-segment city car. The Comfort is just 139.8 inches long, or about six inches shorter than a Mini Cooper. The interior is airy and bright, and has some fancy concept-car touches like door-grip-mounted button pods, but most of the technology isn’t too far out there, including an iPhone dock, USB inputs, a pair of large information screens on the dash, and a touch-screen center console for controlling car settings and the stereo. The last screen also offers internet browsing capability, for when you need to translate “Ciao, bella!” into Malay.
The other two concepts are at this point mere styling bucks with no interiors. One is the Emas Country, a more-rugged-looking, three-door, five-passenger version of the Comfort, while the other is the Emas3, a three-meter-long, electric-only city-car version of the platform that rides on a wheelbase reduced by almost 22 inches. The Emas3 would theoretically offer 3+1 seating, where the seat behind the driver would have reduced legroom.
Given these cars’ size and target audience, Proton’s “worldwide ambitions” likely mean extending its European footprint outside of the U.K., where it currently sells a few different models, for now. It’s unclear if the plans call for U.S. distribution—we’d hope for something a little more substantial than these small city cars if they do—but given its respectful stewardship and nurturing of Lotus, we’d trust the Malaysian company to deliver decent vehicles at this point far more than we would almost any Chinese company. We won’t pretend to prognosticate any further, but if Giugaro stays involved, at least Proton’s future will be stylish.
============================================
They said that Emas 3 was fully EVE…. :/
opaque said,
March 4, 2010 @ 12:50 am
i really dont understand wheeluser. reply like a kid. just dumb. paul, ignore this idiot
—————–
Winning an argument on the Internet is like winning the Special Olympics (for people with disabilities). I guess it is best to stop trying to beat some of these "challenged" individuals in this blog forum.
St.George’sCross said,
March 4, 2010 @ 4:05 am
I have a French friend who just wears lacoste shirts and drive Renault despite working here in the UK. I think Malaysians are mindless savages. I really admire the Malaysians who have achieved this great feat with proton and other things but sadly I must say that the self bashing malaysians are mindless savages that truly not deserve to live in Malaysia.
————————-
You are absolutely right! These "savages" should be shipped to Cambodia. Then they will realise how blessed they are.
A question on plug-in hybrids, taking this Emas concept as an example (if it were made real), if I'd already traveled 50km for the day and I'm at home charging it from the wall socket. If I suddenly get a call from e.g. my bro to pick him up from the LRT station because there're no taxis in sight and the buses are late, how will unplugging the car and driving off affect the battery life and performance?
flyman said:
"P/s: for those who are “not confident” with what proton do, can you give me a case where proton stupid problem like “poor power window” can cause death to passenger?? as long as I know no death case reported due to poor power window compared to what toyota did… already caused death…"
It's another kind of death lah. Death to your wallet. Faulty power window motor and door carrier easily cost RM350 not including labour charge. That is for ONE side of FOUR doors. That is one example only. In total well (include all the factored excessive hidden duties tax on top of double rate loan ban interest) that's what 'death' means – death to your wallet by Proton.
"Also do not think korean car is too great. I’ve go to korea before. they have same problem like us.. Poor car for local distribution but good car for international trading.. But the best thing is their mindset that always support their car. "
Best of all currently look at the latest car offerings from Hyundai Kia. Worth supporting, no? Now look at Proton, same period and type of breastfeed but yet way retard kid behind than Hyundai Kia. Why?
"For them if they didn’t use their product, who else?? It’s better for them to realize the problem first before others found. Neither P1, P2 nor others malaysian company will go global if their people mindset negative for their own product…."
Here's why. You ask who else use their product? Of course North American, European, Latin America markets for Hyundai Kia all these while capturing these big markets. But Proton? Sorry lah anything with Americanism is evil but settle for UK and other joke markets only so there you go Proton actually losing the big missed chance for economies of scale for global market.
So this EMAss will prove Proton a global standard car?
Open up the car market then. No excessive hidden car tax duties. Let car loan rates also competitive and not selective rate anymore. Let the people choose the best, efficient car at fair market price. Let see how global standard Proton really is.
Why so scared for open market if Proton proven to be the global quality car maker? Or still a jagoh kampong as usual? Look at Proton's latest excuse: "before, Proton develop car for local market first then go for global. But now, develop for global first then sell local."
Really? Not enough cheating own local Malaysians, now wants to cheat the whole world? Good luck lah Proton. If that's the case Saga full-spec should've been launched first in Australia for RM25K and the same here too later. Look how this EMAss car news get highlighted. The world don't even bother if Proton exist or not! Sums up just how pathetic Proton really is, but only here Proton self-glorified syok sendiri always demand the people to respect them rather than earned it.
Quit or die trying lah Proton. Car got nothing to do with patriotism. It's all about your money – why should you pay more for when it doesn't have to? In fact what kind of patriotism if only to CHEAT own people into buying local expensive craps other than DEATH TO YOUR WALLET.
vbkcheng said,
March 4, 2010 @ 12:51 pm
The main problem of P1 is not that cannot make it, but they have to allow a group of blood sucker to share the fat and make their price expensive, poor quality….Ali Baba company that take up 50% profit of the parts, what future P1 can have?
————————-
If you have balls, please go to court and testify these accusations. Please provide proofs, don’t just rambling nonsense here. If I were Proton CEO, I would bring you to court and challenge your statements. Be prepare to pay hundreds of millions if you lost the case.
please use internet wisely.
Hyundai and proton are failure product. All my friends and family who own this brand got problems but not perodua. Perodua cars is almost maintenance free. Save fuel too.
vbkcheng,
first of all, please cleanse you brain with all those negativities you had with our gov. any family, any company, any gov would surely protect their source of income and industries. why do you close your eye when america is protecting their big banks, AIA, Ford and some other big industries involving trillions of dollars but you choose to open your eyes so wide to look for some small effort done by malaysia gov to save the country as a whole. if you think you’re so great in managing economy, please try apply for a post in Bank Negara and we’ll listen to your plan. but remember, do not borrow money from IMF.
another thing is, please check how long Kia, Honda, Toyota had existed before they went global. previously, they only cater the local market and foreign cars are sooo expansive. we don’t know what kind of problem they had in the past (faulty brakes, faulty power window, faulty padle, etc) as internet is not widely used by bashers to spread all those negative thinking like now.
aiyoo.. Honda, Toyota tak guna duit gov diaorang, lantaklah diaorang nak buat apa pun. Tapi PROTON guna duit tax payer, sepatutnya berbakti pd rakyat dgn jual harga jauh lebih rendah berbanding harga kereta luar, ini sebaliknya. Berkali2 ganda lebih mahal. Kalau gini, mana2 company pun leh making profit. Yer la sekat kereta luar dijual dengan harga sepatutnya, Tun M bina Proton, saya pun sokong semua sokong. Nak bantu pun x salag tp cara naikkan cukai ni x btl. Kita umpama syok sendiri kerana bersaing di padang x sama rata. Mungkin ini kesukaan kerajaan BN yg memang selalu berlaku x adil. Pembangkang dilarang miliki media arus perdana sedangkan kita sedia maklum siapa pemilik sebenar NST, Media Prima dan Utusan. LAGI 1, X salah gov nak kutip cukai, tapi jangalah kereta bawah 1.3 pun nak kenakan cukai sampai berkali2 ganda dr harga asal. Hakikatnya pembeli kereta import terpaksa membayar lebih cukai berbanding harga kereta.
Hakikat 1 lagi, company kereta yg lebih muda dr kita pun dah mampu export lebih byk dr kita eksport setiap tahun. So jgn guna alasan 25 tahun tu sbg usia muda. Company yg usia x sampai 15 tahun pun dah mampu keluar saiz enjin dari kecil 0.8 L hingga 4.0 L V8, Turbo, EV Car, Hybrid Car. Kita nak buat turbo pun terhegeh2 makan 2 tahun. Awal 2011 br nak produce walhal dah dgr citer ni semenjak awal 2009. X percaya? Bukan 1 bukan 2, tapi byk. please google di internet.
Hyundai = always use drain oil gasket every oil change otherwise oil will leak. One of the failures. Proton = rusty body + rattling dashboard and filmsy plastic. Break by itself. AMT switch problem. Failure. Perodua = Fuel economy. almost maintenance free. Expensive little car. Pass.
Jumbsuck said
So this EMAss will prove Proton a global standard car?
Open up the car market then. No excessive hidden car tax duties. Let car loan rates also competitive and not selective rate anymore. Let the people choose the best, efficient car at fair market price. Let see how global standard Proton really is.
Why so scared for open market if Proton proven to be the global quality car maker? Or still a jagoh kampong as usual? Look at Proton’s latest excuse: “before, Proton develop car for local market first then go for global. But now, develop for global first then sell local.”
..
Sokong you Jumbsuck, KERAJAAN SBG SHAREHOLDER TERBESAR PROTON, PLEASE TUNJUKKAN PROTON BOLEH KEPADA BASHER2. BERKUATKUASA ESOK, HAPUSKAN CUKAI IMPORT KERETA? hanya dengan cara ni basher2 akan berhenti cakap. Nak tanya, kenapa ya di Langkawi banyak jumpa kereta import berbanding kereta Proton compare di semenanjung
Jumbsuck said,
March 4, 2010 @ 1:31 pm
Quit or die trying lah Proton. Car got nothing to do with patriotism. It’s all about your money – why should you pay more for when it doesn’t have to? In fact what kind of patriotism if only to CHEAT own people into buying local expensive craps other than DEATH TO YOUR WALLET.
————————-
nobody force you to buy proton car if you don't like it. you may choose other car like myvi or naza. but do you think buying foreign cars won't have problem? try replace faulty gear box of BMW after warranty lapse. 25k won't affect your wallet?
i could say, Malaysians should stop producing local girls, they are causing death to my wallet. bring in more mat salleh girls… at least they worth it
now, the last statement just meant to be kidding. I do love my local girlfriend so much :)
mofaz said,
March 4, 2010 @ 1:38 pm
If you have balls, please go to court and testify these accusations. Please provide proofs, don’t just rambling nonsense here. If I were Proton CEO, I would bring you to court and challenge your statements. Be prepare to pay hundreds of millions if you lost the case.
please use internet wisely.
..
Of coz la Proton menang
1) Proton byk duit. boleh lantik barisan peguam hebat
2) Cuba lihat Video Klip Lingam
3) aiyoo. Proton manage by Gov as majority shaholder = gov = bn. bekas pengerusi lembaga disiplin UM NO = ketua hakim negara. Aiyoo x kan x leh pikir lagi
mofaz said,
March 4, 2010 @ 1:38 pm
vbkcheng said,
March 4, 2010 @ 12:51 pm
The main problem of P1 is not that cannot make it, but they have to allow a group of blood sucker to share the fat and make their price expensive, poor quality….Ali Baba company that take up 50% profit of the parts, what future P1 can have?
————————-
If you have balls, please go to court and testify these accusations. Please provide proofs, don’t just rambling nonsense here. If I were Proton CEO, I would bring you to court and challenge your statements. Be prepare to pay hundreds of millions if you lost the case.
please use internet wisely.
mok17 said,
March 4, 2010 @ 1:54 pm
Hyundai = always use drain oil gasket every oil change otherwise oil will leak. One of the failures. Proton = rusty body + rattling dashboard and filmsy plastic. Break by itself. AMT switch problem. Failure. Perodua = Fuel economy. almost maintenance free. Expensive little car. Pass.
———————
Perodua almost maintenance free? You've got to be kidding me. Your statement's the most BASELESS statement in here!
mok17 said,
March 4, 2010 @ 1:54 pm
———————————
Another P2 salesman joint the party…..
please gov decrease import tax said,
March 4, 2010 @ 1:50 pm
Hakikat 1 lagi, company kereta yg lebih muda dr kita pun dah mampu export lebih byk dr kita eksport setiap tahun. So jgn guna alasan 25 tahun tu sbg usia muda. Company yg usia x sampai 15 tahun pun dah mampu keluar saiz enjin dari kecil 0.8 L hingga 4.0 L V8, Turbo, EV Car, Hybrid Car. Kita nak buat turbo pun terhegeh2 makan 2 tahun. Awal 2011 br nak produce walhal dah dgr citer ni semenjak awal 2009. X percaya? Bukan 1 bukan 2, tapi byk. please google di internet.
——————–
Kita bukan tak mampu nak buat, banyak yang kita boleh buat sebenarnya. tapi kena lah check market dulu. kita tak ada 'economy of scale'. kalau buat enjin 4L sekalipun, tapi nak pasang pada 2,000 kereta sahaja, berbaloi kah semua pelaburan tu? nak buat enjin bukan murah bro, nak kena buat kilang, mesin dan pelbagai peralatan untuk buat enjin tu. kalau ada rm beratus juta baru la boleh cakap pasal enjin. so, cara yg paling bijak ialah beli enjin dari kompeni lain. kalau ceo proton ikut cara u buat segala engine macam u nak, proton pastinya akan lingkup.
LOL…….Why bash Hyundai? I dont get a point. Especially those models you guys are referring are old models……You guys understand that Hyundai has made a significant improvements over these days? Look at elantra, i30, getz, i20……These are fuel effiencent and reliable cars……..
please gov decrease import tax said,
March 4, 2010 @ 1:56 pm
Jumbsuck said
So this EMAss will prove Proton a global standard car?
Open up the car market then. No excessive hidden car tax duties. Let car loan rates also competitive and not selective rate anymore. Let the people choose the best, efficient car at fair market price. Let see how global standard Proton really is.
Why so scared for open market if Proton proven to be the global quality car maker? Or still a jagoh kampong as usual? Look at Proton’s latest excuse: “before, Proton develop car for local market first then go for global. But now, develop for global first then sell local.”
..
Sokong you Jumbsuck, KERAJAAN SBG SHAREHOLDER TERBESAR PROTON, PLEASE TUNJUKKAN PROTON BOLEH KEPADA BASHER2. BERKUATKUASA ESOK, HAPUSKAN CUKAI IMPORT KERETA? hanya dengan cara ni basher2 akan berhenti cakap. Nak tanya, kenapa ya di Langkawi banyak jumpa kereta import berbanding kereta Proton compare di semenanjung
——————-
Takde maknanya nak open market. Proton akan kalah walaupun kereta diorang kualiti cam Bentley pun. Sebab ramai orang Malaysia yang bash ni bukan reti nak pikir rasional. Konon ingat barang import mesti kualiti tinggi. Please! Aku dah bawak kete Honda, kalau nak compare ngan Gen2 aku lagi baik Gen2. Takde aku kena spend beribu nak baik kete. Dah baik satu masalah satu lagi masalah timbul! Bukan aku sorang je, ramai yang pakai Honda, Toyota semua hadap masalah sama, ape nak cakap?
Pas tu kalau tak dapat, kutuk barang Malaysia, padahal tak sedar yang dia tu pun "Made In Malaysia"
Why suddenly some person use this topic like a political blog… stop it… I just want to know about the car… we love the car ok.. what the hell suddenly rise issues with pocket, government support etc… if want to discuss about this topic, open a new one lah…. :-(
By the way, somebody stated there's a new company younger than proton that already sold their car worldwide is't? really what's that company name… Do you know what the manufacturer car company means? They, design, build engine, etc all by themselves. If that company only act as manufacturer (takes other car, modified design, and rebrand it) I wouldn't considered them as manufacturer car company…. LOL…~~~
please gov decrease import tax said,
Hakikat 1 lagi, company kereta yg lebih muda dr kita pun dah mampu export lebih byk dr kita eksport setiap tahun. So jgn guna alasan 25 tahun tu sbg usia muda. Company yg usia x sampai 15 tahun pun dah mampu keluar saiz enjin dari kecil 0.8 L hingga 4.0 L V8, Turbo, EV Car, Hybrid Car. Kita nak buat turbo pun terhegeh2 makan 2 tahun. Awal 2011 br nak produce walhal dah dgr citer ni semenjak awal 2009. X percaya? Bukan 1 bukan 2, tapi byk. please google di internet.
———————————————————–
are u refering to cherry?….look at their mainland la..how many population compared to my country…their domestik market just enough for them to breakeven fast….u must be easter user ….
please gov decrease import tax said,
March 4, 2010 @ 2:00 pm
mofaz said,
March 4, 2010 @ 1:38 pm
If you have balls, please go to court and testify these accusations. Please provide proofs, don’t just rambling nonsense here. If I were Proton CEO, I would bring you to court and challenge your statements. Be prepare to pay hundreds of millions if you lost the case.
please use internet wisely.
..
Of coz la Proton menang
1) Proton byk duit. boleh lantik barisan peguam hebat
2) Cuba lihat Video Klip Lingam
3) aiyoo. Proton manage by Gov as majority shaholder = gov = bn. bekas pengerusi lembaga disiplin UM NO = ketua hakim negara. Aiyoo x kan x leh pikir lagi
——————-
that's why i ask if you have balls, pelase provide evidence. don't just rambling and bashing here. i feel like i'm just wasting my time trying to ask you to think rationally, not just bout yourself, or being kiasu.
there's a script in P.Ramlee movie that goes like this:
"susah la mau cakap sama dia. dia punya kepala sana ada batu besar juga duduk…"
let them la tiadaid…..
i've travelled a lot with my 1st batch gen2….still going strong…no rattling dashboard…no more power window prob…clocked more than 280 000 km in 6 years…realibility?…..lu pikir la sendiri….
mofaz said,
March 4, 2010 @ 2:10 pm
please gov decrease import tax said,
Kita bukan tak mampu nak buat, banyak yang kita boleh buat sebenarnya. tapi kena lah check market dulu. kita tak ada ‘economy of scale’. kalau buat enjin 4L sekalipun, tapi nak pasang pada 2,000 kereta sahaja, berbaloi kah semua pelaburan tu? nak buat enjin bukan murah bro, nak kena buat kilang, mesin dan pelbagai peralatan untuk buat enjin tu. kalau ada rm beratus juta baru la boleh cakap pasal enjin. so, cara yg paling bijak ialah beli enjin dari kompeni lain. kalau ceo proton ikut cara u buat segala engine macam u nak, proton pastinya akan lingkup.
…
haiyaa.. sbb tu lah kita kena ubah mentaliti kita. Jgn harap market Malaysia aja. Dah tau ekonomic of scale kecik, bertindak lah di pasaran lebih agresif spt Indon, Thailand, Rusia, New Zealand dan negara2 yang tak produce kereta sendiri ( sebab ramai yg anggap negara lain pun sama protect industri diaorang, walhal bukan semua yg protect ). Ni volume export x sampai pun 30%. Kalau nak masuk industri ni, kena la pikir nak export kereta bukan jd jaguh kampung jer. Tu pun jadi jaguh kampung sbb mahalkan kereta2 luar dgn cukai merepek2. Tak payah pergi merantau jauh2, just tengok kedudukan Proton di Singapura, Thailand dan Indonesia. Ni negara2 jiran kita. Mcm mana nak menang hati rakyat China, Jepun, India, UK, USA kalau market jiran yg kita senang nak edar alat ganti, ada hubungan baik pun x leh nak tackle ( maksud tackle sy ialah jd top 5 player@ kuasai min 10% market ). Even di Langkawi pun kita kalah pada kereta2 import. Kereta import berlambak2 di sana. Sebab apa? sbb murah bro.
TIADAID. Saya x kata Honda dan Toyota tu 100% baik. Bahkan skrg terbukti H&T adalah pengeluar plg bermasalah di dunia. Tp bayangkan dgn harga Persona, kita dah mampu dapat Honda Stream bg jenama Honda, dgn lebih byk aksesori, spesifikasi. Dengan harga Persona juga kita da mampu dpt sebuah Toyota Wish. Itu yang saya hujahkan. Sapa kata rakyat Malaysia x reti pikir, rakyat Malaysia lah yg plg gemar ikuti perkembangan automatif. Mungkin owang pempuan dia krg minat sikit btl la, tp org lelaki dia btl2 teliti dlm pilih keteta. Tp apa pilihan kita ada. Nak x nak Proton je yg kita boleh beli in term of price sbb kereta2 lain yg sebenarnya kita mampu beli tb2 jd mahal kerana cukai.
and again.. about proton… hahahahah…
PERODUA claim it is a maintenance FREE? damn funny..
even regular schedule maintenace cost u sky rocket..
St.George’sCross said,
March 4, 2010 @ 4:05 am
Malaysians are the most weird and unpatriotic bunch of people that I have ever come across. Finnish people for example are fiercely proud that they produce ergonomically designed scissors! If you can see a Korean movie, you’ll notice that foreign cars are virtually non existent on the roads and I heard they only use LG and samsung phones.
—————————————————————-
"virtually", means there could still be imported cars in Korea but not as many as Korean cars and it's based on Korean movies you said. You also "heard" that Koreans only use LG & Samsung phones which your source could be unreliable & even you are not sure yourself as you've only heard it. Since when bashing and not using locally made products down to your underwear prove that a person is unpatriotic. This is a forum ffs, everything is debatable. It's just human nature. How did you come to the conclusion that Malaysians are weird/unpatriotic with that is really beyond me.
Cars are like girls. Do you want to do it with japanese girls or malaysian girls? I think the patriotism guys also betray themselves.
Oh ffs ppl. Proton does not use taxpayer money. It makes genuinely cheap cars even in a fair tax environment (eg. They are cheaper than cars of similar class in say Langkawi and Thailand).
The government does protect proton though, by raising OTR prices of imported cars by about 25% on average (for sub2.5L models).
Keep in mind that at the end of the day, most malaysians have cars compared to 50 years ago when almost NOBODY had cars. That is a pretty awesome feat for any country… ANd while your hondas and toyotas may be a bit more pricey, you pay less income tax and less for fuel as well so it sort of balances off.
Malaysians are pissed about the whole thing because after 50 odd years of independance, the masses of poor people who are now starting to experience wealth IDOLIZE AND BADGE WORSHIP cars like there's no tomorrow.
Many falsely assume that Proton is the cause of all their inability to own a car of whom they badge worship. It is not.
The real reason why cars are UNAFFORDABLE in malaysia has nothing to do with proton. At the end of the day, malaysian Purchasing Power (PPP adjusted) is like three times lower that of developed countries. SO you simply cannot compare the affordability of cars in said countries.
Badge worship is serious business in malaysia. It's surprising how many mercedes and BMW's you see on the road… given that the average burger flipper at McDonalds earns only like RM5 (?) an hour.
Heck, i dont see as many Merc's and BMW's in Melbourne as in Subang Jaya. …like. wtf.
RakyatMalaysiaSudahTidakAdaSemangat said,
March 4, 2010 @ 11:33 am
St George I agree with you, malaysians’ minset are very poor. They don’t have any patriotisme left in their heart. They always worshipped imported material rather than local material. I dont say that we cannot owned any of imported things because its your money, but plz dont bashing around local product as they were sucks big time! If u want to bash local product, plz dont be the Malaysian citizen and be another countries’ citizen.
—————————————————————-
every people has their own opinion, if they want to bash Proton then let it be. This is a forum afterall. It has nothing to do with patriotism. People don't just jump on the bandwagon and say it's good just because it's locally made.
mok17 said, March 4, 2010 @ 1:54 pm
Hyundai = always use drain oil gasket every oil change otherwise oil will leak. One of the failures. Proton = rusty body + rattling dashboard and filmsy plastic. Break by itself. AMT switch problem. Failure. Perodua = Fuel economy. almost maintenance free. Expensive little car. Pass.
=======================================
Let me just add: Perodua = shameless Diahatsu rebadge. Toyota = accelerator pedal problem (jammed in "accelerate" mode. Only took action after people died from it…). Honda = side window electrical problem (babies have died from burning cars). Mercedes/Volvo = Electronics system failure (car wont start for no apparent reason). Most Continental Cars (Peugeot/Audi/Saab) = very very very expensive spare parts.
Conclusion: Dont buy cars. They have problems.
St.George’sCross said,
March 4, 2010 @ 4:05 am
I have a French friend who just wears lacoste shirts and drive Renault despite working here in the UK. I think Malaysians are mindless savages. I really admire the Malaysians who have achieved this great feat with proton and other things but sadly I must say that the self bashing malaysians are mindless savages that truly not deserve to live in Malaysia.
————————-
Ian said,
March 4, 2010 @ 1:14 pm
You are absolutely right! These “savages” should be shipped to Cambodia. Then they will realise how blessed they are.
—————
I'd like to know what the 2 of you are wearing? so St.George’sCross can decide if yourself deserve to live in the UK & Ian can decide if yourself should shipped out to Cambodia together.
LRT said:
"every people has their own opinion, if they want to bash Proton then let it be. This is a forum afterall. It has nothing to do with patriotism. People don’t just jump on the bandwagon and say it’s good just because it’s locally made"
—————
true… this is a forum afterall.. so whatever your post or comment should be related to the title.. So right now about proton emas hybrid system and not about proton cars generally… So what are you guys talking about actually?? We should discuss, comment, and give an idea to improve it.. If your guys intent just to "sindir" proton, just open a new topic ar…
Now my idea for the new EMAS hybrid.. how about this use nuclear fusion technology… it'll give you lots of electric power… :-)
Hello Guy's… we talking about "How does the Proton EMAS hybrid system work? ". Not talking about "how does your behavior, your poket money, your brain damage, or your worship brand system works ? ". I nearly puke my self when see all adult behave like kid's. Now we know why Malaysia can't reach 1st World country…. Coz malaysian mind set…… Hmmmmhhhh…..
actually,there are a lot of malaysian that are negative minded.what i mean is, we are always think that import product is much more better that the local made.if u wanna compare the car market situation in Langkawi,this is exactly viewed the negative minded of malaysian.is there anything wrong if we are using our own badge??
just think like this,u are making kueh for an event.but the guess didnt take your food for their tummy though you are selling them with a low price and same quality with the outside food.guess are preferred to buy kueh from outside.than,what will u do??
for sure u will close the gate that allow the guess to buy the kueh from outside ryte??
hope the technology to green the world doesn't impact the world.Hope proton will launch new technology and more concept car to the road ..like the Honda Bikes.
mok17 said,
March 4, 2010 @ 1:54 pm
Hyundai = always use drain oil gasket every oil change otherwise oil will leak. One of the failures. Proton = rusty body + rattling dashboard and filmsy plastic. Break by itself. AMT switch problem. Failure. Perodua = Fuel economy. almost maintenance free. Expensive little car. Pass.
———————
Perodua almost maintenance free?
Perodua supporter with no point to bash Proton……..PITY U! hahahahahaha
Company Automobile China kebanyakan berasal dari Company membuat peralatan military…. untuk PLA Army
Batteries should designed as cartridge type as it is more practical. Charging should made options of either short charging or long charging.
i think paul should filter comments, just like one leader did. he approve all who praise him but deny any criticism. in that way we could have 'happy' commenting session all the way, and also avoid flaming. this car forum has become politic war, even gaduh about 'what u wear'
please gov decrease import tax said,
March 4, 2010 @ 2:46 pm
mofaz said,
March 4, 2010 @ 2:10 pm
please gov decrease import tax said,
TIADAID. Saya x kata Honda dan Toyota tu 100% baik. Bahkan skrg terbukti H&T adalah pengeluar plg bermasalah di dunia. Tp bayangkan dgn harga Persona, kita dah mampu dapat Honda Stream bg jenama Honda, dgn lebih byk aksesori, spesifikasi. Dengan harga Persona juga kita da mampu dpt sebuah Toyota Wish. Itu yang saya hujahkan. Sapa kata rakyat Malaysia x reti pikir, rakyat Malaysia lah yg plg gemar ikuti perkembangan automatif. Mungkin owang pempuan dia krg minat sikit btl la, tp org lelaki dia btl2 teliti dlm pilih keteta. Tp apa pilihan kita ada. Nak x nak Proton je yg kita boleh beli in term of price sbb kereta2 lain yg sebenarnya kita mampu beli tb2 jd mahal kerana cukai
——————
Tapi kesan kepada ekonomi kita tak consider? Kalau keje mengimport aje, tak ke rugi duit kita keluar je? Jgn pikir pasal dapat kete jenama harga murah, pikir jugak pasal ekonomi kita, kalau duit kita asyik keluar sbb ramai orang kita beli barang import, hasil export kita takleh nak cover camne? Last2 jangan kata kete import, Proton pun tak leh mampu sbb ekonomi jatuh merudum.
horses people!!! horses!!
haiya.. horse lagi mahal la.. kalau dia merajuk lagi teruk, u can't go to office that day and kena potong gaji. then bashers will say Malaysia horse not good.
i love this…this web…about automobile etc……
but sad on those people bashing here and there…politics…gaduh…
Can u all just be neutral and stick to the topic?????plzzz…
no need to be rude…
haiyaaaaa……
Wow, this forum has really taken off, from patriotism, to politics, to common fights arguing over each other’s comments and all for what, for something which will not materials. Reading all the comments from top to bottom made me realize how wrong Proton has got it working for them, from a national automotive maker to producing cars and providing for our rakyat Malaysia making it a better country in terms of automotive availability & lifestyle. Let’s just leave out the rest of the arguments and concentrate on what Proton is all about, shall we do that.
Proton started 25 years ago under a great visionary, our great Tun Dr.M and still is a very great person to admire till today. He set the stage to bring our country up and produce our first national car, if I think back, that would be the proudest moment for all Malaysian at that point of time. Then as the years move along and Proton started to show sign of trouble coming up with new cars and getting the image of bad quality and very low safety standards set for our national cars. Then it just keep going on trying to build their own engine (Campro, took a number of year to finally get CPS to work) and then came very first design national car Gen2, which was and until today, in my opinion a very sporty and good looking car but that is all. If I look at Proton’s history the only car very well manufacturer and gave very little problems were the Proton Putra and Satria GTI, apart from that every other car had problems from the start till the end of its cycle, the ones which did not have any problems and people are still using those Proton models, I guess are lucky enough to have actually got good working parts and maintain well by the owner of the vehicle.
Proton is something every Malaysian should be proud off as our national car manufacturer however Proton is not listening to the voice of the public and not conducting proper research to make sure their new models comes out with less problems and really quality control is bad, really bad at times, I’ve heard so many proton mechanics tell, apa boleh buat, kereta Proton bang, kiland pasang macam ini, kalau tak boleh guna, kita tukar aje lar, asalkan masih dalam warranty. I mean if the people working for Proton has those mind set, why would we think any further or otherwise. Why can proton do something about those problems, get good quality parts, even if the car price remains hefty, I’m sure many Malaysians will support their national car as it’s our pride and glory for the nation. I’ve read so many forums from Proton clubs where they have even gone to Proton HQ, plants to relate problems from different model cars which Proton produces, and yet very little are done by Proton to help rectify those problematic issues on their vehicles.
I guess, if I were to look overall, the Proton top management people need to have clearer directives and proper objectives which serve’s in the best interest of our rakyat Malaysia. By doing that, they can change the vision of people working in Proton, have a much better research and development team, better quality control and take feedback from the public seriously and show they are doing root cause analysis and coming up with action plans to further improve the vehicles produce and the services given. I’m sure If I were to bring up about Proton service centers in Malaysia, tons of stories will come up, move bad than good, why is that, because of bashers condemning Proton, I don’t think so, I believe it’s because the Proton Service Center itself is not doing a good job providing efficient and quality service.
Proton has done a lot, I’m just saying they should be doing more, have gotten a good design hybrid car is a good step to help promote Proton among the global players but I believe the focus should be on our local shore’s before moving abroad. Anyway these are my opinions, it might not solve anything and may sound that I’m condemning Proton, but I’m not. I hope in the future, I can confidently walk into a Proton Showroom, and admire the upcoming new models from them and mention, wow, what a great car, excellent design, very good quality, handles very well and can’t wait to get my hand on this Proton car.
Always think of a solution before relating a problem that will drive us Malaysian to live a better and respect each other, towards Vision 2020 and One Malaysia. Paul, I’ve been a follower of your blog for years and I must say it’s one of the best car blogs ever, you’re doing a fantastic job, please keep up the good work.
Dear LRT,
You're missing my point here. I truly sympathize with what's going
on with this "debate" so to speak. Even if there should be debate and
criticism, it should not be this way. It's madness and I cannot understand
how can the people from the same nation pull one another to drown
together when a few seems to be reaching for the top. How can the world
support Proton if the very own people who made it don't?
hahhahaha…everytime a subject about proton, sure proton kena bash…
Pity proton
Not bad………….
but see for test drive….
Please bring over here….. we 'org kampung peramu" want to test drive….
We know Tuan Syed Z (now dato' Syed Z) already, he from MTB (Malaysian Truck & Bus).
Believe me…….Tuan Syed is better than previous Proton management team.
"Malaysians will not be able to buy it for a long time but even though the car was designed for the world market it would first appear on Malaysian roads."
http://chedet.co.cc/chedetblog/2010/03/geneva-mot…
this is a big leap, we did skipped hybrid and full electric cars…
Giugiaro is working on a new persona model….i hope it ships in with this tech… then the 1.2 liter 'extender generator' makes sense!
Proton is on the right track…finally….
Haha! in your face Volt/Ampera!
cepat keluar lagi elok hehe kalau leh running dgnbanyak minyak better lah ethanol.methanol.nol nol leh menambah kekayaan penduduk malaysia yang ader tanah kosong tanam pokok tok buat minyak.. jimat ape.. hehe biofeul ke perh mantap lah emas nih atleast it become a reality i hope.. Proton cepat lah keluarkan model tuh huhuhu comey sangat high tech… I LIKE it.
Malaysia couldn't become first world country if those basher still have third world mentality. as simple as that.
Tiadaid said:
"Tapi kesan kepada ekonomi kita tak consider? Kalau keje mengimport aje, tak ke rugi duit kita keluar je? Jgn pikir pasal dapat kete jenama harga murah, pikir jugak pasal ekonomi kita, kalau duit kita asyik keluar sbb ramai orang kita beli barang import, hasil export kita takleh nak cover camne? Last2 jangan kata kete import, Proton pun tak leh mampu sbb ekonomi jatuh merudum."
Very silly economics view and clearly the fear-mongering created by narrow make-believe govt propaganda can only convinced many fools to be herded like brainless sheeps. Blind leading the blind!
The whole car industry even if it's all on total import dependence is nothing compare to total sums of money being laundered, smuggled out by corrupt political crooks cronies so far lah.
Look at the bigger picture who really sabotage local economy in total for past 30-40 years, RM hundreds billions gone in the air later, what is so damn act of sin to let people buy car that good quality, fuel efficient at fair open market price.
It's just a case of lesser evil to choose:
1. The danger of capital outflow from car imports industy? Or,
2. The danger of capital outflow from stolen wang rakyat by political crooks cronies?
So now you want capital remain flowing inside like RM billions fed to national car industry but you keep on getting crap car junks. My foot lah!
That's the problem with you all lured to believe in stupid economics and false patriotism. Try to fix small leakage to save some money but the bigger leakage remains. Penny wise but pound foolish.
until malaysian learn to not throw their garbage everywhere, malaysia will never achieved first world country…we need to change our mind set…maybe a bit of morale touch up here and there will be a great help….
Hey people….I drove almost all the national cars ranging from Proton Wira, Perdana, Gen 2, Persona to Perodua Myvi, viva, kancil and kenari……These cars which i tested out are relatively good and also able to run from point A to point B effectively…..Almost all of these have not much technical problems…..You get what you paid for. If you want a higher and better specs and features………Get other non national cars…..National cars are built for poor and ppl who cant afford……Dont come here and bash around……..We , malaysian must improve this concept. I personally drove my persona…..Its still good and running well for around 2 years….
Another question in doubt is,…..Do the 1.2l engine need to generate the power for the hybrid engine to run? If so, then what about the sudden acceleration up towards genting? Will it have enough power and torque up? This is also crucial….Because….power and energy will be generated during traffic jams as well………..
basher is what they are. thats y they are here since they are basher. have plenty of time to read and then write, while others busy with other business.
paul, need to be careful if your site just full with basher. in the long run advertiser need quality audience (the one with buying power and those with buying power generally is the one that are better educated and busy), not those who have plenty of time to bash in all post but have little in pocket.
please gov decrease import tax said,
TIADAID. Saya x kata Honda dan Toyota tu 100% baik. Bahkan skrg terbukti H&T adalah pengeluar plg bermasalah di dunia. Tp bayangkan dgn harga Persona, kita dah mampu dapat Honda Stream bg jenama Honda, dgn lebih byk aksesori, spesifikasi. Dengan harga Persona juga kita da mampu dpt sebuah Toyota Wish. Itu yang saya hujahkan. Sapa kata rakyat Malaysia x reti pikir, rakyat Malaysia lah yg plg gemar ikuti perkembangan automatif. Mungkin owang pempuan dia krg minat sikit btl la, tp org lelaki dia btl2 teliti dlm pilih keteta. Tp apa pilihan kita ada. Nak x nak Proton je yg kita boleh beli in term of price sbb kereta2 lain yg sebenarnya kita mampu beli tb2 jd mahal kerana cukai.
__________________________________________________________________________
dari mana fakta harga proton persona boleh beli toyota wish dan honda stream kalau tanpa tax???? cakap pun dah mengarut, nak ckp pasal ekonomi. cari lah sendiri dalam laman web toyota n honda malaysia berapa harga wish n stream kat langkawi??
harga proton persona dalam malaysia dah campur tax antara 13-17%, cara pengiraan tax kereta berbeza, bukan main darab aje. harga wish n stream hampir 100k tanpa tax, persona se DENGAN TAX baru 60k, xsama beb. lu ni memang main buta tuli dengar ckp org.
kat thailand,honda freed jauh mahal dari exora h-line. itu compact mpv diaorang, enjin 1.5 lagi, so adakah stream yg berkapasiti1.8 lebih murah. so, u bleh check kat bangkok post, exora is the new king of mpv in thailand, itu pandangan org thailand terhadap kete malaysia, tapi org malaysia,sebaliknya.
BUKTIKAN HARGA WISH N STREAM TANPA TAX SAMA DENGAN HARGA PROTON PERSONA TANPA TAX…
mereka ni nak salahkan gov je. kadang2 pengedar tu yg ambik untung berlebihan. UMW contohnya, bagi facelift sikit pastu naikkan harga beribu ringgit. Honda lagi la.. tak buat facelift pun bleh naik seribu tetiba.
Proton waja basic spec, automatic tahun 2000 dulu about RM63k, sekarang ni dengan airbags, leather seat, abs, cps pun masih RM63k.
Peter said,
March 5, 2010 @ 12:32 pm
Another question in doubt is,…..Do the 1.2l engine need to generate the power for the hybrid engine to run? If so, then what about the sudden acceleration up towards genting? Will it have enough power and torque up? This is also crucial….Because….power and energy will be generated during traffic jams as well………..
___________________________________________________________________________
This engine is not generate power to move the car, it is use to charge the battery when the battery running low.
The car move by dynamo power by the battery.
So u can up genting any time as long as ur car battery is enough have the fuel in ur car is also enough so the engine can charge the battery when it is low.
Currently we still don't know how much power that generator can produce cause no spec of the generator have been release yet.
And we also still don't know the FC of then engine yet
Honda stream is cheap than persona ???
Honda stream price 2000cc 4wd = USD 27200 = 2429776 yen
OTR price = 2429776 + (2429776 x 5%)Tax + 56700(tax) = 2607964.80 yen
IN RM = 2607964.8 * 0.0377 = RM98320
and mind to u for 2000cc car their road tax is abt 39500 yen = RM 1489
I no included Insurance price and also parking u will need to rent/pay in Japan
Ya it is cheaper than malaysia stream but no Persona!!!!!
BTW 1.8 model is abt RM 10k cheaper = RM 88k which is still expensive than Persona !!!
those bashers have no idea what they're talking about. they are easily manipulated to believe anything people said because they don't think and only know how to bash. just wait and somebody might come out with a story that Bugatti Veyron is cheaper than Saga outside.
War, after so long, some still don't ubderstand the big picture?
Still got people believe that P1 & P2 created for poor people?
If there is no Proton, Vios, City will be selling at RM60K. Do you think Personal better or City or Vios? It is all tax punya pasal…
Go honda wedsite, just look at Langkawi, tax free car…: http://www.honda.com.my/allprices/
City
Grade S = RM58,480.00
Grade E = RM62,480.00
If you want to justify whether we should have our own brand of car, P1 & P2, just compare Malaysia with Thailand and Austria lar…Having own brand create more work opportunity or doing assemby and selling at the region is more?
There are still some out ther believe that the nationakl car was created for the poor? for Malaysian?
Go and check the part supply info lar…see who are them… see what is the game is all about…
Ask you dad, in 1983, Honda Accord baru, price at RM28K. Nissan Sunny RM21K? In 1985, Kita punya Saga mari… RM18K? Other car got tax high and price jump at 40% in one year time….
You Economics teacher has foll you ah? If you guy there are really serious about economics, go and calculate how much Malaysia net cash in flow, if those car plant at Thailand is not setup but was setup in Malaysia…Imaging export of million car to Asian which not carry P1 or P2 name, but made in Malaysia…That the GDP we are taking about….
We jsut take about the automotive industry, Don,t mentioned BN or PKR… we just compare if the policy to have P1 & P2 is right…
Hi WhiteFox said,, Honda Stream is selling at RM93,980 in langkawi…
and u thought proton car is w/out tax?
vbkcheng said,
March 7, 2010 @ 2:17 am
Hi WhiteFox said,, Honda Stream is selling at RM93,980 in langkawi…
———————–
so you can't prove it that Honda Stream is cheaper than Persona rite? now you want to use Honda City as comparison? Ok, even if City is RM58k in Langkawi, it's still more expensive than Persona in Peninsular. Price of Persona in Langkawi should be much cheaper than City.
vbkcheng, actually your economy teacher is the one who didn't teach you properly, or you sleep during class. Producing own car and assembling cars is very big different. yes, you could let Toyota producing Vios in Malaysia but;
1) your technology achievement will always at the same level or maybe you didn't learn anything at all. just look at P2 for example, can only design bumper? When you produce own car, you learn how to make a better one. I'm actually proud at Proton achievement so far. Exora is new king of MPV in Thailand.
2) It will make certain models from Toyota cheaper than current price, but other makers will be still expensive. Look at Thailand, do you get all car cheaper after Toyota producing Vios there, or only Vios? Bashers will still complaining why Honda expensive. What's next? ask Honda to open factory here? then ask VW, Ford, Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Audi and all build factory here too until Ferrari become affordable to you?
3) The other risk is that, when Malaysia is no longer 'cheap' for Toyota, or if Toyota in financial trouble, they could just close factory and open somewhere else. 50,000 will become jobless just like that. China has experienced that situation. Now, what do you have to export?
msi, yes… proton doesn't have import tax, but still have sales tax. For Waja, the tax is about 20%, or RM10k. but if i'm not mistaken, with introduction of GST, the tax could be reduced to 4%, or RM2k only.
Sume kondem proton. kenapa? kenapa kena compare kereta proton dengan kereta import, kenapa mesti pikir yang harganya berbeza dengan kereta import? kenapa mesti mempertikaikan hal2 yang tidak kamu sendiri tak tahu berapa manufacturing cas untuk sebiji bolt kat malaysia daripada luar negara? kalo anda kerja dalam bidang pembuatan, pasti anda akan terpikir, kenapa tak masuk akal harga alat ganti sebesar kuku bolh cecah hampir sepuluh ringgit? kita kena paham, bila manufacturing jual ngan harga yang tak masuk akal, takan kita nak jual lagi murah dari 2? giler la, mane nak cari untung? kalo saya owner kilang konfiem bankrupt. Kereta import senang la, kereta dah siap, alat ganti pun tak payah nak assemble, semua dah datang dalam package, so tak payah nak susah2 nak kira harga satu2 alata ganti. Kereta vios pasang sini, alat2 ganti yang utama bukan datang dalam bentuk child part, suma dah siap. beli banyak2 campur nag barang lain, dapat jimat kos, jadi murah la sikit, cuba kalo datang asing2 mesti mahal dua kali ganda punya lah harga kereta T&H.
Takpe lah, terpulang kepada individu untuk berpikir sendiri, Kalo rase barang import lagi bagus, silah lah beli, tapi kena ingat kita anak malaysia, jadi kalo bukan kita ynag beli product sendiri, sape lagi??
Akhir kata, Saya bersetuju aper yang MoFaz kata, ape yang dia kata semua betul. hanya orang yang tak peka and tak pernah amik tahu jer akan termakan dengan kata2" vbkcheng ".
So.. Hidup PROTON !!
ModFaz,
Technology? What technology has P1 comeup after 25 year? Even this EMAS, they are paying people to do it for them… For me, P1 just an assembry plant, not manufacturing… All part that they are using is nothing new nor impress.. BTW, I scope A1 in Economics brother..
Modfaz,
For your point 2, Beside Ferrari and Porsche (sport car range), all others model like BMW, Merz is afordtable if not because of the high tax…And, when I compare Thailand with Malaysia, I am not taking about the affordtable, I try to show you the big picture, for you to think, the big number, may be 1 million car a year, made in Malaysia but not Malaysian Brand…Then you will understand what is in flow and out flow of money… then teh GDP… got me ah?
And point 3, worry about financial problem and close shop? Let me teach you how to solve this…
Without lossing money on P1, with toehrs brand export, we will be cash rich. When Those assembry plant tutup kedai, we will then buy it a very low price, then offer assembry activities to others band…As long as we are competitive and quality sound, we will get business.. why worry?
If you aer worry about jobless, continue ask G to protect you? Even the Bapa P1 also ask you all don't depend on the tongkat lar…why there are still a lot of people not idependent after the country declared independent 50 over years ago? Tongkat punya pasal lar..Continue thinking of the special right and see how far it can move..
even City is a little big higher price then proton, but it give 13 cent per KM. Fuel saving has maek the money for the extra…
So, 1.5 vs 1.6, people still choise City, it is because we all not love our country and only know to bombak P1? If P1 boleh, the global market should atlest 50% of the total output volume by now… but, where is P1…
You just don't understand the real problem of P1..it is not because of P1 cannot, it just because the value chain has problem… when P1 is created, the purpose is question able…
Then, biar tengok berapa biji proton kita boleh jual pada tahun 2020…
Kalau beli Proton bermakna cinta Malaysia? saya pun kena diam saja lar…
Bagi orang yang berakar, dia akan faham, cinta negara bukan bererti kita mesti menyokong produk yang tidak ada purpose….
kalua itu resource semua invest dekat kelapa sawit, 25 tahun sekarang, kita punya kelapa sawit sudah boleh ganti minyak mentah lor…
vbkcheng said,
March 8, 2010 @ 12:26 am
—
You have a very stupid mindset.
let easier example.
If your father's business is closed. so you think, your fathers busines rival will decrease their price?
as know, japan company are very well linked, they will never allow japs to sell cheap good. Must sell as many profit they can get.
what? now you begging for GG to cancel all the tax?
I think you should make your own country.
WIRA SE, ambil keluar itun tax, compare aple to aple, then you sediri fikir, betulkah kita nak kereta dsendiri?
Kalua you dekat manufacturing, you kena faham, focus on your core competence..25 tahun buat sesuatu yang orang sudah pandai buat? it is like buang duit kedalam sungai…
Dear all ridiculous self-bashing Malaysians, I found this Australian blog on Proton Emas who are intrigued by Proton (not just this concept car) http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://w…
not even a hint of dissatisfaction. You should be ashamed of yourselves when people overseas admire protos buy the Malaysians are quarrelling about power window failure and why toyotas and hondas would have been cheaper without proton. How shallow!
vbkcheng, you're seriously a blind basher.
where have you been? not staying in Malaysia eh? Proton has achieve a lot of things, starting from Waja, Gen2, Persona, Neo, Exora and now Emas. They've developed own engine, namely Campro, with CPS, IAFM, EVE, turbo and now hybrid. even china is importing Gen2. what P2 has? bumper??
and what's wrong asking for Lotus to develop engine? in case if you didn't know, Proton owns Lotus. Proton didn't buy Lotus just for 'suka-suka' and let them enjoy their own sweet time. you, who scored A1 in economics should have known that. Btw, i don't have to tell you my SPM result, which i think you wouldn't believe me even if i tell you here. But my guess is, you only memorize the book without understanding what you learn. SPM is history, if i restart standard 1 after my SPM, by now i should have completed 2nd SPM already. What you learn in school is very basic, but the real life will teach you everything.
Yes, I agree with you that if without tax, even BMW and Jaguar would cost around 100-200k. But if you become MITI minister, can you let all those car in without tax? Even Singapore is taxing Proton cars with high tax. Exora in Sgpore cost S$69k, or a whopping RM172,500!! now, tell me what you think about that? erm… you need to call your economy teacher eh?
now, for the next issue. Do you know that Malaysia is the largest market for passenger cars in Asean? Dr. M has foresee this long-long time ago, and Proton was established to tap this market. The market has now become saturated, and Proton have to go global. Imagine if Proton become successful, producing 1 million cars per year, it will benefit 300,000 (current) workers directly under Proton, vendors and distributors. Now, check the situation in Thailand. Toyota has many other factories (US and Japan are the biggest), and producing 500,000 vehicles in Thai. but the headcount is 3,500 thais only. is this considered good for economy as a whole? there's no research, design and many other departments. They are simply referred as 'factory'.
you talk like it's soooo easy. you said "When those assembly plant tutup kedai, we will then buy it a very low price, then offer assembly activities to others brand" …. my comment is simple; HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
why? bankruptcy is not the end. Usually, big corps will use bankruptcy as medicine, to cure their financial trouble. using bankrupt as a reason, they're able to slash workforce but get to keep their assets. they can close factory here, and bring all their asset to new location, start afresh. Now, who win? who lose? You lose! many jobless, and no more export for you.
BMpower,
I am not sure how stupig you are or buta…
Where I mentioned when Proton close, japan car will decrease their price?
I am saying, if not because of the high tax to protect proton, japanese car price will as low as Proton….
Pls don't use your own mind set to change my meaning…this is public forum and not the media that you can control…
Pls make it clear again, we are not bashing, we speech the true….
Let look at the number of P1 car in the world….
After 25 years, do we sell more than 10 million PCs in Malaysia and oversea?
Go and check, Peg 206 is selling > 6 million Piece since it start till end of life…that the economics of scare…
i just soem of you might be the P1 supplier… that why cannot accept the facts…
Pls re-cap our point here:
1) Should MY have own car brand, Proton and Produa
2) Is Proton produce and good and cheap car for Malaysian? After removing all tax, only consider the selling price of the car.
3) Can Proton survive in International market?
My view is, with the money that we pump in, P1 can buy a lot of car manufacturer who is in Big problem…
And, when this happen, pls bear it mine that this is not P1 bagus, it is the Malaysian hard earn money… not the money that they make….
vbkcheng, bosan aku dgr ko merapu…
aku nak tanya encik pandai yang cakap beli persona dapat beli stream kalo xder cukai, kenapa harga T Avanza kat indon lebih kurang sama je dgn harga Exora dan innova pulak lebih mahal walaupun dasar G indon tak protect proton? sembarangan je toyota letak harga keta mereka mahal2 kerana indon xder keta buatan sendiri dan mereka terlalu bergantung kepada keta import…
kenapa Exora kat thailand masih lebih murah berbanding MPV jepun walaupun harga Exora kat sana lebih mahal berbanding kat MY? takkan G thailand pun protect proton kot?
Sudah lar, I give up to you guy, Cinta buta, that the only word I can use….
And, I am not surprise of your guy answer as some is only compare P1 and P2…itu nama Jaguh kampung… never open mind to compare with international….
And, yes, P1 own Lotus…a company that almost go bankrupt…
Read Paultan info carefully, EMAS is develop with Italian, itu lotus England, Lotus is only good in chasis, not engine… Lotus Elise MK1 is using toyota 1.8 engine, then MKII use the renault 1.8?
And, without Proton, Petronas juga rich enough to buy Lotus, tak payah beli proton then use proton to buy lotus…
THat the idea, you not need to have own brand, just beli those potential one bila they all in trobler, itu business, not cinta buta…
Last word, be Jaguh Kampung, P2 juga sudah sell more than P1… and very soon, the AP king Naza juga akan come very close…5 years later, Naza mungkin overtaken P1….
But then, ini negara politic main important role… P1 might tahan Naza later…let see the movie…
vbkcheng said,
March 8, 2010 @ 2:49 pm
Sudah lar, I give up to you guy, Cinta buta, that the only word I can use….
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all your points are weak, without valid proof and beyond reasonable doubt. hahahaha… sudah give up? because you don't have point anymore, right?
you can't answer why Honda & Toyota are still more expensive than Proton in Thai and Indonesia, and now you want to involve Naza into quotation? come-on la bro, u need to learn more.
and you said Lotus didn't develop engine? Do you know the history of Campro, CPS, and Lotus range extender / Hybrid? It's sooooo clear that you're blind. anybody else agree with vbkcheng?
i had bad experiance with my proton..but it doesnt make me to look down on our product.. i driving proton, strom evo and naza…they all are the same…with goods and bads…it's all about how u take care ur car..it's ur own money..if u like it and can afford it…buy..i'm looking forward to this EMAS..very nice..thanks Paul..
cinta buta… lawak arr… parents aku ni mmg peminat keta jepun, masa aku umur 17 tahun dulu pun aku belajar driving pakai Mazda familia 323 bapak aku… tapi aku pulak pakai keta p2 kancil dan P1 waja, cinta buta ye.. kancil aku telah memberi aku byk masalah berbanding waja.. paling aku benci kena tukar kompressor a/c setiap 2 tahun sekali.. sekarang umur kancil aku tu 6 tahun, dah 3 kali aku tukar kompressor a/c! dan yang terakhir sekali coil pulak bocor.. hampeh.. pikir sendirilah berapa kos nak tukar benda tu. kalo tukar kompressor, kenalah isi gas lagi, tukar filter/dryer lagi, minyak kompressor pun nak kena tambah.. kering poket aku.. bodoh punya org yang cakap keta p2 almost maintanance free.. suck!
minggu lepas abang sulung aku (peminat toyota nih) datang dari brunei. Naik Waja yang dah cecah 7 tahun aku untuk bawak dia gi jalan2, dia bagi thumb up kat keta aku sebab masih solid dan senyap.. dia mcm tak percaya waja aku xder masalah besar.. itulah cinta buta… keta target aku seterusnya ialah… Exora turbo… tak kisahlah kalo naza surpass proton dalam masa 5 tahun lagi ke.. tak kisah lah kalo p2 jual lebih byk dari p1… yang penting aku memahami apa safety yang sesuai untuk driver jenis mcm aku (penting untuk keluarga aku jugak) daripada cuma mementingkan jenama tapi safety kureng…. P2, i'm pointing at YOU!!
Look, T & H is cheaper than proton.. that the facts that we cannot change… P1 can sell at cost, whatever, but their production cost is much more higher…
And, Campro… you still don't get what I mean, doing what people is already doing, is noting to be huha…unless you can do it better… is Campro better? we all have the answer…
And the point now is, bubur sudah jadi nasi… Proton should be be exist at the 1st palce, but then, sudah 25 years and spend us so much money, the only thing we can hope is, they can come out from the Value chain crisis, produce something that ready good and cheap…Let see if Proton able to put 2.0 engine, or even turbo in to their MPV, still selling at RM75K, then we will start see hope.
sudahlah vbkcheng,
you, the self-proclaimed "economy specialist" are the one who said we should buy company which lossing money, but then you bash Proton buying Lotus. What's your stand actually?
again, your point is very very weak. prove to me and everyone here, where you can get T & H cheaper than Proton in similar segment. T & H have factory in Thailand but Persona is still cheaper than City there!
Now you're saying that Proton sell at cost? Do you think we all stupid like you? How come Proton get profit before tax of RM248 million from RM2.1billion revenue? what are you gonna say next?
What's wrong with Campro? in fact Campro CPS is better than Mitsu engine previously installed in Waja.
have you ever drive current Proton cars like Persona or Saga? if not, then shut up and go study more la. Later if your grade are falling, you can't put the blame on Proton.
vbkcheng said,
March 9, 2010 @ 2:32 pm
And the point now is, bubur sudah jadi nasi…
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and btw, it should be "nasi sudah menjadi bubur", not the other way around.
MoFaz,
Read carefully,
I say: My view is, with the money that we pump in, P1 can buy a lot of car manufacturer who is in Big problem…
And, when this happen, pls bear it mine that this is not P1 bagus, it is the Malaysian hard earn money… not the money that they make….
I never say buying Lotus is a wrong move, I just say, we not need to pump money to P1, then P1 beli Lotus.
We can buy directly, why need a middle man that not add value? Faham?
And, the fact is, Japansese car is much cheaper than what we can produce due to the economics of scale.
And now, if you read New Sonata, they are saying it selling at Korean at RM60K? I am not sure if the RM60K is true…But for me, even RM80K, t is a value for money..When can I see this in P1?
Kalau bukan tax other people car high, p1 gulung tikam lior…
ANd, don't compare P1 and P2, P2 is just a little big better then P1, people just hate P1 so buy P2….nohting to be prouf of…
The only hope we have now is the Lotus and Bufori…those 2 company that own by us, see if the damage done 25 years ago can be recovered….
vbkcheng said,
March 9, 2010 @ 2:32 pm
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Biar cakap melayu sikit… mungkin budak nie paham skit…. sejak 30 tahun lalu, boleh tak bagi tahu berapa nilai mata wang RM pada masa tu dengan RM sekarang ?… Boleh bagi tahu berapa nilai tukaran wang asing dahulu dengan sekarang ?… berapakah peningkatan kos pembuatan dalam tempoh masa itu ?… berapakah peningkatan kos pendapatan dibahagikan dengan kos ekonomi global ?…. selain itu berapakah jumlah & nilai import barangan yang dibawa masuk ke malaysia ?… Adakah kos pengangkutan semua CBU & CDK adalah percuma ?…. Nak dengar gak apa yang budak pas Ekonomi A1 nak jawap soalan nie…. Kalau hanya makan gaji aje sekarang, bebawak dengar sikit & berkongsi maklumat dengan orang yang berkerja sendiri, berniaga, terlibat dalam perusahaan perladangan, pembuatan & perkilangan… Jangan terlalu taksub dengan dakyah & kabar angin dari luar yang tak pasti lagi… Belajar, Dengar & kongsi untuk kebaikan bersama….
Vbkcheng said,
And, the fact is, Japansese car is much cheaper than what we can produce due to the economics of scale.
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So, those Japanese produce really cheap car (due to economy of scale), but selling at ridiculously high price, and you still support them? that's the real CINTA BUTA as what you said.
Waja selling at lower price in Malaysia (even after sales tax) compared to City and Vios in Thailand. That's Waja, which has better spec and spacious than Vios. If compared to Persona (similar segment), then Vios is clearly overpriced. Exora is well received in Thailand (more than 800 bookings in 2 weeks) but here people still bashing without even trying Exora first.
I'm not related to Proton (not employee, not a vendor, and also not distributor). I'm not defending Proton because all my family members use Proton cars (from 1st gen Saga, new Saga, Wira, Persona and Waja), but I'm disappointed with low-level mentality of bashers here. And just for your information vbkcheng, my salary is more than enough to buy and pay monthly installments for 3 Vios, but I still choose Waja. You will never understand why because you're blindfolded by your own mentality.
Vbkcheng, don't just accept what you want to believe but ignoring other facts which you don't want to believe. Yes, new Sonata will be sold in range of RM62k-RM75k in Korea. They could do it due to economy of scale. they plan to produce 450,000 of Sonata yearly as opposed to 200,000 (all models) from Proton. definitely, production of Proton car per model yearly is much lower.
Now, we go back into history. Hyundai was founded in 1947 and involved in construction and engineering before venturing into car production in 1967. Korean government announced the "Automobile Industry Promotion Policy" in 1962, and The Automobile Industry Protection Act to protect the infant industry. Foreign automakers were barred from operating in Korea, except in joint ventures with local business entities. Hyundai and Kia (Hyundai owns Kia since 1998) both benefited from this "PROTECTION". Hyundai Sonata (Hyundai's first in-house design) launched in 1988, after more than 20 years!
Hyundai also involved in steel, construction, ship building, rail roads, defence vehicles, financing, and electronics. Plus, Hyundai is now 4th largest auto maker in the world.
Now, if Hicom, Petronas, Proton, Perwaja, TNB, Maybank & Sime Darby are all in one group like Hyundai, I believe we could already have Persona below RM20k.
Nems
Crap cars with cheaper price or better cars with extra money flew…that's the only option.
HOw about this?
http://www.motortrader.com.my/NUS/articles/articl…
How many job opportunity we are lossing?
P1 will not have economics of scale, that why they will never able to make it… that the facts but in boleh land, the G still continue to protect them. I agreed with certain protection, may be max 10 years. After that, since P1 still cannot stand alone, we shall drop it…Ask yourself, who is the DRB guy behind? Why they push P1 to Petronas? WHy they nove to Melaka to setup another plant to assembry Honda?
P2 is a little big better cause they are under the unbrella of Toyota and they can assembry for toyota to make the economics of scale…
Hyundai Motor Company (Hangul: ?? ??? ????, Hanja: ????????? Hy?ndae Chadongch'a Chusik-hoesa) (KRX: 005380), a division of the Hyundai Kia Automotive Group, is the world's largest automaker by profit,[2] the world’s fourth largest automaker by units sold[3] and the world's fastest growing automaker.[4][5] Headquartered in Seoul, South Korea, Hyundai operates the world’s largest integrated automobile manufacturing facility in Ulsan, which is capable of producing 1.6 million units annually. The Hyundai logo, a slanted, stylized 'H', is said to be symbolic of two people (the company and customer) shaking hands. Hyundai means "modernity" in Korean. The company employs about 75,000 persons around the world, Hyundai vehicles are sold in 193 countries through some 6,000 dealerships and showrooms worldwide.
In 1970-an, Automotive still not reach the red ocean level….BUt P1 come in 1985…create "own Blue ocean" by tax others car marker price to sky high.
That the reason I say it is stupig to have our own brand of national car…
If the resources would to put it in palm oil, today, each Malaysian will smile to bank like those Arad country…
vbkcheng, if Japanese and Korean have similar mentality like you, we will never have Honda, Toyota, Hyundai or Kia now…. why?
imagine if Japanese & Korean prime ministers in 1930-1970 are stupid like you, they will say:
"why bother develop our own car? why bother creating Automotive Act? we can just build assembly plants for General Motors, Ford and Chrysler here…"
If we talk about assembly plants, Thai have advantages. Population is 2.5 times more than Malaysia, means there's more labour. Malaysia is no longer "cheap" in labour / workforce. do you think a lot of people here want to work for RM700 per month? Dell, Intel and Motorola are among big companies that have scaled down their productions here due to rising costs. So, what's the solutions? Factories will use more robots, or get cheaper labour from Indon and Bangla. we now have more than 1 million foreigners (Indon & Bangla) here, do u want more?
i hope proton can make it happen b4 it bankrup!haha!anywhere car d side is nice,hope all part can work not only d’side!
Hope proton come out this care faster. Else other brand come out the more advance tech car. If really so, Proton will bankrupt again.
Really, the technique acknowledged as drip irrigation package is a blend of a number of shipping and delivery programs on the lower-quantity and lower-force types. The complex time period is micro-irrigation. The method sprung from the increasing need to have to conserve drinking water.