The Star has a very interesting report which came out yesterday. It answers some of the questions that many motorists thinking of taking the leap to hybrid ownership will be asking, based on interviewing spokespersons from both Toyota and Honda, the only two companies which are selling hybrid cars in Malaysia that benefit from the new zero percent import and excise duty. Porsche also sells the Cayenne Hybrid here but because of its engine size, it doesn’t get any exemptions.
I would only take the battery prices information seriously as everything else are just claims that the cars have no issues.
- The Toyota Prius battery costs RM11,500.
- The Honda Civic Hybrid battery costs RM12,000 but there is a 15% discount for customers who buy from authorized dealers.
- Prius warranty is 3 years or 100,000km which covers battery too.
- Civic Hybrid warranty for battery is 3 years or 100,000km.
- UMW Toyota claims there have not been a single battery replacement due to wear and tear in the US, where all generations of Prius have been on sale since 2000.
- Priuses used as taxis in the US have clocked 400,000km without any hybrid component failure.
- A Prius taxi that clocked 550,000km in Australia needed battery replacement due to a low voltage reading.
Walao…expensive lor…
from what written, I can assume after 500k-550k km only you have to change that RM11k battery… not bad. normally how many years to take 500k-550km for average driving usage…?
based on malaysians average drive annually of 25,000km, it would take 20 years to reach 500,000km.
Honda (M) said :15% discount for customers who buy from authorized dealers.
if you come to me i give you 60++% discount. Actually the battery can rebuilt !!!
How much do u sell the HCH IMA battery? Mine is Honda Civic hybrid 2009. Text me 0122820350
Hi bro. Can u give me your contact no?
IMHO..
battery wont last long..
our hot climate will definitely drain the battery fast…
Cannot compare Mat Salleh battery with anything that comes to Malaysia. My W124 CBU Mercedes, the original battery lasted for 6 to 7 years before it konked. That is German quality. That is overseas quality.
In Malaysia, where got car battery last for more than 1 year? Whether its imported or Made in Malaysia.
The same applies to anything that comes to Malaysia. We get 3rd world goods. My Nokia phone, Made in Finland, still lasting 9 years. Where got Nokia phone now can last that long?
You think the hybrid battery that comes to Malaysia going to last 500,000KM?
well will the manufacture use the very same batt./parts is left to be seen.There should be some regulation to take the manufacturer to court if the parts are sub standard.
My wira battery lasted for 6 years but I always maintain with by refilling the water every 6 months or so.
my saga car battery now enter its 3rd yr..
My Saga’s battery failed in it’s 3rd year
my satria neo battery just been replaced last month, after 3 years
Aiyoo…the battery being the subject here is not your normal car battery that you change once every 1-2 years la…this is the hybrid battery….different kind la…
You don’t understand English kah? Try to understand the context it is being said. He is talking about the quality of things being sent to 3rd world countries,
my Latio battery still strong after 3.5 years..it depend how people maintain it.
don’t think those Prius battery is like what our normal car battery where you can get everywhere and many brands of it..if all from Toyota then why there are differences?
Go thailand buy original toyota spare parts can save your pocket money a loy…..it cheaper a lot than sold in m’sia…..same parts same quality but price different too much…even local Toyota can consider all import mostly from Thailand & some from Indonesia…since i stay in northern region kedah/penang, my camry parts all go thailand buy & they fix it there by THAILAND toyota…M’sia here they mark up the price too high for high profit…
I dont think the battery can be maintain the same like we maintain our car battery by just adding water hahaha
u dont not understand
wat battery we r talking about!!!!
i guess after 500,000KM, pls also worry to change your engine first rather than your battery~~
LOL ya the engine (more expensive) would need an overhaul or replaced first with that mileage instead of worrying about the Nickel Metal Hydride battery :].
still cheaper than wat we all pay for maintaining the padana gearbox mah :-)
ngam!!
pls la Proton,don’t use that crap to compare with any cars la.
The warranty for the battery in Japan is 8 years. How come Honda Malaysia is only giving 3 years warranty?
Something fishy.
I am also shocked atwhat commentator yongwd has stated.
Like another commentator said, the heat in Malaysia will shorten the life of the battery as opposed to Mat salleh country where it is cooler. Does Honda Malaysia know this and the reason for the 3 year warranty?
So, why come out with the impression it last for more than 500,000KM without need for change?
from my experience… for handphone or digital camera batteries will drain out faster in cold weather….
if car maker use Lithium-ion polymer battery they must n should install cooling mechanism for the battery to prolong battery life expectancy….the operating temperature of li-poly is from -20 to 60 degree celsius
The warranty for the battery in Japan is 8 years. How come Toyolta Malaysia is only giving 3 years warranty?
Something fishy.
Does Toyolta Malaysia know this and the reason for the 3 year warranty?
So, why come out with the impression it last for more than 500,000KM without need for change?
But we need to compare the saving from petrol.
How much % saving from petrol?
Say if the battery needs replacement on year 8, what about the % of battery efficiency that may reduce every year, from year 1 to year 8?
And how much more the PPM cost compare to normal car? Same, more or less?
Anyone?
just a simple answer….not worth it..
this is just not the time to use hybrid yet. since the price of the technology is still expensive.
This is the best time to intro. it cos we need to reduce emission of fossil fuel in any area which can help.Beside it’ll lessen the arab oil ransom.Oil has created so many wars & greed.
When would be the “best” time to intro. alternative fuel?.Is it when the world roll over,its already starting – global warming.
EV much more practical esp. for town/city driving..hybrid vehicles still produce emision any way…
ok, but where are you going to charge your EV when the battery is flat? what more if you live in a condo or pprt where you have to park streetside as there is not enough parking space.
i think the problem in malaysia is out petrol is so much cheaper compared to MOST other foreign country.
lets say if you stay in thailand or singapore i am sure you will save alot of money in fuel int he long run but sadly now in malaysia as the GOV has given subsidy in petrol and now tax free in hybrid car’s the malaysian mentality is still bashing !
i think it cost effective based on that 100000km without prob
based on my saga usage RM50 for average 360km
= 100000(50)/360 = RM13889 for 100000km petrol compare to RM11000 and RM12500 for 100000km if battery
that bout RM2-3k saving with assuming that petrol price is RM1.85… if increase in price of oil n drop of price of battery more saving…but that only theoretically
hybrid also need fuel..
it’s not totally EV
correct!
Honda Insight Hybrid fc is about 40mpg = 5.881litre / 100km. which would add RM5881 into the equation above. total cost of 100000km of travel + battery replacement for a Honda would be around RM16k.
Saga wins, if the petrol price doesn’t change in 5 years. and saga price is wayyy much cheaper too.
with greedy politician oil prices can only go up- period!.
You will also need electricity to recharge the battery. TNB will also keep increasing the price of tariff.
Hybrid car is auto rechargable and no need to charge electricity. ie: nothing related with TNB.
let’s say the savings is rm2.00 for every 100km – meaning if before to travel between kl and kt (distance of 500km) you need to fill up rm62.50, but with hybrid only need to fill up rm50.
therefore, with rm2.00 savings, the break-even kilometers for the additional battery replacement cost is 550,000 km
rm 11,000 x 100 / rm 2.00
if the savings is rm3.00 then the break-even kilometer is 366,667 km
you also need to account for the higher maintenance charges – there are two engines (petrol and electric)
with the hybrid battery, is there still a need for a normal car battery ?
however, comparison has to be made between the civic hybrid and the normal civic. whether the cheaper civic hybrid worth it
You must remember to protect the environment we should reduce traveling too. We should not target to drive 500,000 km that is very polluting for the average user to do.
nebula87 : tis price are temporary, it will go cheaper by next year after honda malaysia launch the new honda insight
When there are more hybrid car on the road. the price for battery will drop even more as car battery will be mass produce in factory for the replacement market.
Why so worried now when u will only change the battery in 10 years time?
How many of u are driving the same car after 10 years? People are changing car every new model roll out from factory nowadays.
problem is that.. if anything happen after 3 years of warranty?? :D
the price of the battery replacement is quoted in 2011.. what happen in 2014… when the petrol price increase.. ALL thing will also increase..
unless written in the contract agreement that the price of the baterry inclusive labour will remain..
what is our main concern on this? are we concern on Environmental OR we concern about saving as compared to petrol car
it’s not always like that. the price of battery may shoot-up if it’s using rare materials. supply and demand law: if demand is higher than supply, then the price will go up.
here is the extract from cargurus:
“The reason for the Prius’ hunger for rare commodities are its batteries and motor magnets. According to Leftlane, each Prius uses about 1kg of neodymium and each battery uses 12kg of lanthanum, figures that will inevitably double as Toyota seeks to boost the Prius’ fuel efficiency.”
Neodymium, terbium, dysprosium, and lanthanum are all considered rare earth metals, and all are being depleted, quickly, by popular hybrids like the Prius, Honda Insight, and Ford Escape Hybrid.
Yes, hybrid vehicles decrease our use of fossil fuels and reduce tailpipe emissions. However, how “green” they actually are is an issue that needs some serious debate.
well if we wait any longer there may not be a earth to chit chat on which alternative to use.
auto gearbox also 10k ++ what, but still ppl buying auto gear car right? come on. 10k is not a big deal.
how long must u wait until ur auto gearbox failed? i never heard someone changed their GB after 500k km. mostly, the GB will last as long as the car itself. based on how u use it.
look at the perdana’s of our beloved miniters and you will know how many times you have to change in a lifetime !
rage,
auto tranny does fail even in its first year, it all depends on luck.
many waja AT lasted for 10 yrs with minimal problem compare to wira 1.6 5-6 yrs earlier.
u r wrong rageaccel2. there are so many people change their auto gearbox that failed. some that have just passed 100k km. few examples i frequently heard is honda city, jazz, civic es, perdana. many might opt to repair or take recond gb as its too expensive to change a new 1.
even cars like toyota harrier (1st gen) need to change or overhaul gearbox after just 200k km. just go to the forums and read more instead of making assumptions.
try asking Honda City owner?.
how about batt n gb fail in same times? the can can be throw away?
the battery used by prius is not same like normal cars. of course, it has the 12V battery to power bulbs and such but it also has a battery pack made of nickle metal hydride (Ni-Mh) to handle up to 650V which is higher than supply to our homes of 240V.
toyota has started research on a smaller battery pack based on lithium, if not mistaken – that is battery for quartz watches!! the next gen prius maybe use this kind …
now is RM11k….but please imagine after 10years, your guys think the price will maintain as 11k?? of coz its will be drop la…..10years ago a laptop is how much?? nowadays how much??
this topic the hybrid engine battery not the battery biasa for your electrical support
is the price are full set of battery or divided into section parts?
KKK : for honda, the price is a full set of IMA battery assy
Does the prices above show battery + service cost?
If only battery, how much the replacement service will be charged?
Mozilla chrome : it is the price for the battery only (after discount is RM 11,050) and the cost to replace it is RM75 only
i never use car until 200k km,, lol,, from 1995 until now.
We definitely need more assurance from T & H pertaining to their hydrid car’s battery before we can own one with peace of mind.
The battery is too expensive.. so before the warranty ends or before the milage reaches 100k km, perhaps can trade it for another car.. first 3 years drive prius hybrid.. then drive civic hybrid.. hehe
if everyone thinks like you, then there will be a hugh depreciation for 2nd hand hybrid.
Bear in mind this is not North America we are talking about here where typical car ownership is 5 years.
It’s up to the 2nd hand buyer la.. If the value goes down as what you have said, so 2nd hand buyer can afford to buy it. If they don’t want to buy so no need la. The first owner already change to another car.. hehe.
Once you hv the car it will haunt you for along time since no body will be stoopid enough to buy the used ones. Even new ones for a fact!!
Need more assurance from T&H to gain people’s trust, increase the warranty to 5 yrs maybe?
this is good information. but then the two places mentioned are not as high climate area like malaysia. i am pretty sure they done the acclimatisation practice before deciding to sell those hybrids here but then those are tests, not everyday robust usage like malaysians always do with their motors.
here, easily the temperature shot up to 35-40 degree celcius. and we all know heat does something not good to battery usage. it could be drained fast and the lifespan shorten considerably. so in order to further convince our motorists in getting on hybrid, the car sellers must answer a few more questions:
1) will the warranty covers events caused by high climate surroundings like malaysia?
2) 11.5k and 10,200rm (after 15% reduction) are quite high prices. it is the real selling price or the cost includes somekind of tax or something? if there are taxes involved, will there be CKD processes in the future to bring down the cost?
3) this maybe something they do not need to asnwer but will the cars work under non authorised batteries?
I don’t agree, many parts of Australia (Perth, Adelaide) and the US (Florida, Louisiana) have temperatures and climates similar or worse than Malaysia. If you read the Prius forums there are many cases of older cars still working there.
However I do agree that in general UMW and Honda Malaysia are way too worried about protecting their profit margins. Toyota in the US has an 8-year warranty on their battery. That’s proof of them standing by their product.
i just assume that the taxis in the US are in not so hot areas where i believe it is because of the promotional purposes (i.e cool and ‘cool’ places where actors and actresses live)
and since in australia the article does not specifically mention where the area, again i assume it is in a better climate area where most of the people are living. apart from aborigines and specific task job workers, i couldnt imagine people to flock into deserted and hot like hell areas. but again i could be wrong.
bro..have you been to Aussie? the heat that you talked about in M’sia can be more harsh there.
yes.. if you compare with Darwin
heat is nothing, it is the humidity that makes it feel worse!
drMpower : (1) the warranty (3 years / 100,000km) is include in the event cause by high climate surrounding in malaysia but dont go n try burn it with fire….(2) the price is not include the 5% svc tax, and the price will be lower by every year (compare to 2009, it’s cost RM26K but now it’s cost RM12K)…..(3)the vehicle will not work with non authorised battery cos after replace the battery,it need to do re-setting
The summer of Australia and USA is hotter than Malaysia.
Yeah, but Malaysia hot season is all year round….
summer hotter but short while only then got winter autumn spring, here summer forever, flood water plus iddling forever in traffic jam. plus in summer mat salleh use different car with open top convertible, the bumbung car they keep in garage during summer.
honda and toyota know already otherwise how come 3 yrs warranty only, not even 4 years ………..compare to 8 yrs in jap !!!!!
i seem to see honda hybrid in USA have 10 year warranty, why in malaysia only 3/5 year warranty? that is less by half or T and H want to keep profits? this of course affects the resell value for 2nd hand car and like above said – only idiot want to buy2nd hand hybrid if the warranty is going to be over.
yes.. agree.
My fren drove a 1st generation Prius. Bought year 2002 recon into malaysia. The battery just dead this year july. Overall can last for 9 years.
so it is great to finally hear something very concrete about the battery. i guess its a YES then.
but how about the humidity..i think the humidity is far less in Australia compare to Malaysia
correct, you wont sweat like you do in KL. but it’s really dry there. wild fire could happen any day in summer.
garment shud remove tax on the batteries too, then the cost shud be halved (hopefully?). 3 yrs warranty sounds like “one-half service life warranty”… on the assumption the original buyer use the car for 6 or 7 yrs. it is like saying to the customer, “I take care of the first 3 years, whilst you take the risk of having to bear the replacement cost from the 4th year onwards…” If u ask me, at RM11k, that’s RM11k too much risk to bear :(( . IMO, the best and ideal scenario would be a battery warranty of 10 years, then the 1st buyer has complete peace of mind as he has some residual warranty to pass on to the next buyer come selling-off time 6 or 7 yrs down the line.
this is a great hindsight
its kinda like the clutch/brake pad replacement cost problems in ferraris, lamborghinis,
the first owners hentam kaw kaw then sell the off before it worn out. 1 million isnt cheap by any means and the second owner, bear the cost of replacing the crazily priced items
i have no problem with them but thats how it will be with vehicles with expensive must-replace items like the batteries in hybrids. but then i am pretty sure the asking price for second hand will be considerably lower than buy new price.
however there is another problem in hoping second hand price to be low. the bandwagon is in town, the excitement is high. demand also expected to be high. the combinations not favourable for low second hand price.
can u please apply for a job in T and H and then implement this !
willing buyer willing seller . alot of people not only buy hybrid because of fuel consumption but also to save the environment.
the gov has already given a full tax redemption on hybrid car and you have saved alot alot of money from the TAX itself.
even with this you are still not satisfied then you can wait for the gov to abolish this incentive for hybrid and purchase it at full price in 2012!
and if you want it to be cheaper and cost efficient then you can wait for the exora hybrid. i am sure there will be alot of spare parts available as it will be made in malaysia and if can seat 7 people! 2 more then T and H
garment waiting p1 to start EV/hybrid …then they decide it for you…
remember … garment always say “our market,our control” …
By your logic, government should remove taxes on everything. Banyak cantik!
i think your other problem if the fuel price in Malaysia.
in a country where there is no fuel subsidy, then you will say this hybrid is the best of the best as in the long run you will save the environment and save your pocket!
so do u want the government to scrap the fuel subsidy as well !
if it is please apply to be in the ministry and implement it
There are at least 30-40 units of Honda Civic Hybrid who have their hybrid batteries replaced. Most of them claimed warranty within 3years.
Do check out Civic forum in Singapore for more details. Honda is not honest in their product quality! Consumers please be aware!
Why Honda is give false report?
Couldn’t agree more. A brand new CR-V owner complained to me in a 3S service center about water leakage that sips into his electronic board. It appears to be a common issue, yet no recall.
THanks for info….Booo to Honda!!!! Somebody from honda can clarify this?
nice thing to know, but dont forget, it is Malaysia here were are talking about, not USA and AUS….the weather there is completely different
still very expensive even after 10 years prius in US. if each car company do not share the technology, i don’t think the cost will be down to rm1000. look at computer industry, nowadays can get very powerful laptop at cost of rm1250 only but 10 years ago the same specs will cost you more than rm5000 in bulky PC conditions. if the battery cost remain like that for another 10 years, i believe EV will be harder to practically sell. prius is just hybrid only that give you FC slightly better than viva FC but with less than rm200 12V only. with rm11000, i can cover many years of mileage with regular ron95.
okay, if you are using petrol car, ur calculation of usage is per calculated,
usage of PETROL, RM350 monthly * 3years * 12months = RM12,600
i assume the petrol usage is constant for RM350 monthly.
If you are using hybrid, every 3 years also have to change battery, meaning your spending is RM11500 if you are using toyota hybrid, and RM12000 if you are using Honda hybrid.
Now, there is not much of a difference is there?
This calculation is valid, since the 1st battery that comes with the car needed to be changed so that it will functional properly again at end period of 3 years.
Which mean, i did not include the usage of petrol for those hybrid. Perhaps, if i added the petrol usage of those hybrid, the total cost of fuel after new battery replacement can jacked up to RM15k. and this is absurdly higher than normal petrol car!
Now, come to think about it, i better drive PROTON SAGA EV, or EXORA… which the total cost will only burden me after 15 years of usage, which i will dump them before that period.
I am just saying…and i own a SAGA BLM not yet HYBRID.
hello, you need to calculate the savings from using the petrol, not the petrol usage per month….i doubt the saving is as high as RM350 per month….unless one drives a lot la of course
?UMW Toyota claims there have not been a single battery replacement due to wear and tear in the US, where all generations of Prius have been on sale since 2000.
It is because they only use their cars for 3-5 years maximum. but in malaysia loan gone up to 9 years and after ten years still on the road. haiya UMW…In the US they don’t replace the battery lorr..they replace the car altogether.
u manyak hantam saja la incik azrai,….u better check FaceBook and go to the official page Toyota Prius
A prius ownwer from The U.S said he uses the 1st gen prius and until know he has not changed the battery..!!! Podah punya orang….suka hantam saja !!!
i think i can only pay in installments hahaha
1/10th of the price of their new car? ah, batteries. this will be a constant worry once we’re switching from combustion engines to full electric someday. car makers should provide a more affordable battery replacement. Until the car makers and the government do something to make them more affordable to the public, we can all buy, drive and maintain such cars if we are serious about saving the planet (and costs). For now I’ll just stuck with the eco-friendly and affordable 660cc Viva.
there are a lot of 1 way streets in kl with big divider inbetween to the next incoming lane. If there is flood , can the hybrid car pass thru , if can then ,how high is the water level we should allowed?and definetely u cant turn back due to the big divider … i know the best thing just to stop at the roadside ( a good excuse for coming late to work) and watch the kancil went thru the flood unevenful with the driver grinned/smiling at us
Already proven that hybrid cars cost more than diesel cars & will not perform well also… If not why most of the cars on the road in Europe is using diesel already… If want to be eco friendly, buy 100% EV car or just drive a turbo diesel engine.. Driving a hybrid is like stuck in the middle but higher cost, sometime u cant have both the good without some sacrifices… Drive EV u save on petrol or diesel, drive diesel u save on battery maintenance.. Drive Hybrid, u need to pay for petrol & even battery maintenance!
Guys, read from some UK’s forum, Civic Hybrid rated “Do not buy this car”, same thing goes to some US forum. Prius battery pack has some effect due to high climate, especially those in Arizona and Texas, will post the link if i manage to find it again, but you can google for it.
But if by 2015, our fuel is at RM2.70/liter, need to do some maths again. Really looking for fuel efficient car, due to my high mileage usage.
Hybrids are eco-friendly?
The batteries are actually causing more harm to the environment compared to conventional engines.
Production of batteries will increase a lot, and discharge of batteries as well. Well we may not throw the batteries in 10 years time but what about the years after? How on earth do we ‘manage’ those unwanted batteries?
They just did the same thing about CFC back in the 70’s, promising a better life to us consumers. But see what happen now thanks to the CFC in our air-conditioning?
Just think about it.
Should we wait until the battery price drop or market having fake/imitate batteries only consider hybrid? I don’t think RM12000 is an affordable price for most malaysian. Hybrid is still a rich man toy.
Sadly say, only the rich can talk on go green, but the poor were force to non-green. I’m sure everyone of us would like a hybrid if its price and maintenance is about same with petrol cars. Are we?
not me.
if you dont buy hybrid now .. we will never ever see get the maintenance of the hybrid down.
if everyone thinks like you, there will be no new products in the future as everyone is afraid
Yes, I agreed to you. But let the rich man to absorb most of the cost right only benefits us the lower income.
Since you got your idea, why don’t you get one for yourself and support and absorb part of our cost to make it cheaper for future?
wao..those amount almost equavailent to 3years of fuel usage… until they can make hybrid batteries more affordable, turbo diesel is still the way to go…it’s really depressing our G still reluctant to upgrade our diesel quality standard…
OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!!
# The Toyota Prius battery costs RM11,500?????
# The Honda Civic Hybrid battery costs RM12,000 ?????
How about Proton EV ??????
after 550,000km need to change battery..
assume 1 year 30,000km, means 18 years!!!
so use the EV car for 15-16 years only…
THEN BETTER DEMOLISH THE CAR LORRRR !!!
Damn..
p/s: China will provide cheap battery later, heheh..
one more..Warranty for the battery should be 15 years at least!!!
Driving a time bomb for current hybrid owners….
shall standby another set of battery lor… just like the china phone….
Toyota and Honda should have offered an extra 8-10 years warranty on their battery if they’re SO CONFIDENT on the reliability on the battery. For example, in the United States, Toyota is offering 8 Years/100,000 miles extended warranty coverage on hybrid-related components in the car! (source:http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/warranty.html)
However, over here Toyota (or rather UMW) is trying to screw us over with the usual 3 years limited warranty.
Expect the second hand value of your hybrid vehicle in Malaysia to go down drastically after 3 years of ownership. Just ask yourself a question, will you buy a second-hand hybrid vehicle after the warranty had lapsed?
Plan to loan 9years..die lo like tat..after batery kong stil can drive?
Batteries on these hybrids are quite durable. I have queried taxi operators and they haven’t had much problems with thier hybrid fleet (most of Vancouver’s taxi population are Toyota hybrids)
But the problem is not outright failure, but batteries loose holding capacity over time leading to less and less efficiency as the motor will have to work harder.
Hmmm, hybrid meant for film star, people wanting to make a green statement, boss daughter…..not meant for the working class…..
All Civic Hybrids from the first generation Civic Hybrid from 2004 have not needed battery replacements. Our current Civic Hybrid is the second generation.
how about the second generation ?
no need buy hybrid..diesel much better…govt should support this
i honestly do not buy into T’s claim that not one battery have been replaced since 2000. Come on Toyota, no one is that gullible and naive to believe it. As much as you have built an impressive record of building quality cars, products do fail.
this is a new technology that Malaysians are slowly warming up to and as a reputable brand, spare us the sweet-coated press releases and head straight for facts. Sometimes, records and history can be easily manipulated and we’ve seen more than enough of this.
Although I can do up to 550,000 km before swapping in a new batt, but do I have 5 year loan for that just in case…
Kahhh boommmmm ….. burst your pocket if not lucky….
I’d go for the hybrid only if they swicth the Li-Ion batteries. It’s relatively more efficient, holds charge longer and has higher capacity though in most hybrid cars, it’s limited to a certain voltage.
Li-ion battery wouldn’t provide high voltage for supply. even it more lightweight compare to Ni-Metal battery, but to produce same voltage it would tribute space.
and one more important, ni-metal can be recycle to produce another battery.
Do you know that the Prius oso need to get the replacement battery from SG?
No stock here…
aha! damn prius!
hey, in what sense the battery need to be replace?
how often we need to replace it? once in 3 years?
what will happen if I continue without replace within the period? Will it harm my car??
12k really cost a lot XD the battery eventually cost 10% of car value >.<
If the battery can last for 5 years, paying 10k then shouldn’t be too much of a problem considering you’ve saved tens of thousands on the import duty already.
Still, the possibility of the battery need replacing is there…. Maybe one day, buying an automobile battery will be like being Eveready batteries from local grocery stores, but till then, we’ll have to make do with the RM12k replacement cost.
hee, mayb we would have recond batteries from japan like gear boxes in the kedai potong.
Produce the batteries in Malaysia then.
yea right. it will break down in less than a year
Also how about the eletric motor replacement cost?
in our hot climate here i bet the battery won’t last very long.
so reliable..
maybe need replacement after 12 years.. means RM1000 for a year for battery.
if calculate with cost reduced by the petrol consumption, i think it’s worth to use hybrid.
the weather n humidity r diff from here… would it affect the lifespend of the batts???
the battery have gone through on testing of diff temperature and weather. it can handle climax between 5 and 150 degree Celsius.
if you go to Bukit Aman police station, there got 1 civic hybrid which is the first generation still function ok. no problem of battery. check it out.
goodluck to current hybrid owner….
15% discount from authorized dealer?
Normally authorized dealer is far more expensive
It’s like you buy spare part at honda/toyota or normal spare part shop
If u have money u buy this hybrid car. I u still bother about the battery price, maintenance, bla..bla..bla… get a normal car. Easy
If an original genuine nokia/dell/sony/hp batteries can explode during a corporate meeting, what’s the impact of a fatal batteries failure in a Hybrid or EV? worst scenario anyone?
Another evident Toyota and Honda making a fool out of Malaysian buyers.. as always.
First they reduce the price make it sound all sweet and nice, than.. BAM!! reality hits..
How abt Exora Hybrid battery? 1 year 5000km warranty?
is this the most intelligent joke u can make arr.?……grow up la
I have this question:
does it really save our money by investing in hybrid car?
let’s put aside brand perception & study for the sake of knowledge :)
let’s assume:
at 550 000km, it needs battery replacement at rm12k.
considering a car FC of 9L/100km,
550 000 / 100 = 5500
therefore total FC within this period is
9 x 5500 = 49 500 L
at rm1.85/L
total fuel cost is
49500 x 1.85 = rm91 575 = rm92k
comparing the values, it does cheaper to pay for fuel for hybrid.
however, hybrid car also need fuel, although at smaller quantity.
assuming typical FC for hybrid is 4.7L/100km
therefore the total FC cost is 5500 x 4.7 x 1.85 = rm47 823 = rm 48k
in other word, (hybrid FC) + (battery replacement) = (48k) + (12k) = 60k
so (non-hybrid 90k) – (hybrid 60k) = 30k saving over 550 000km.
*this calculation is purely on-the-desk, which data is scattered & not worthy for technical discussion.
**pls comment on this calculation.
U need to calculate the petrol & battery rate may went up also due to inflatation & other causes. As you only calculate the price for today… Besides that, the maintenence of the hybrid itself may not be the same as petrol couterparts as they consists more parts.
By the way, please compare to turbo-diesel engine car and you will know who will win the day. Try compare Polo bluemotion againts Civic hybrid, a lot of article can be found including from Autocar.
agreed….diesel is much simpler and more fun to drive too!
TQ littlefire :)
btw,
1. i’m not interested in speculation (price going up etc. even that rm12k batt repl. is based on today’s value),
2. regarding super+turbo charged engine, would u share it with other readers here? i’ve done my part on petrol ;)
3. for detailed calculation (part+labor fees+batt life+what eva) may be there is some1 did thoroughly make an accurate guesstimation?
Read this: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/grouptests/211479/volkswagen_polo_bluemotion_vs_rivals.html
Topgear also have proved that hybrid also worst during highspeed crusing by beating it with an M3 be4.. :P
good link, TQ :)
hehe…hybrid diesel+battery then?
the comparison between prius & m3 by Top Gear is totally meaningless. the hybrid was driven flat out. no one even does that in their everyday car. btw, hybrids are not meant to be driven that way. its as if someone would buy a ferarri just to drive it to work everyday during rush hour to get stuck in traffic jam.
You got the thing pretty the other way around.
Driving a hybrid does not really save you any money. All it does is lets you make a “green” statement.
Thats what hybrids are in the first place anyway. The additional cost of technology vs the fuel savings are negligable. In the grand scheme of things, you don’t really save on fuel….
However, Malaysia poses a different issue for Hybrids…they are relatively cheaper after they took off all that Tax and the smaller displacements typically mean lower road taxes. Additional savings that don’t come from fuel usage.
btw, the average consumption of a hybrid of 4.7L/100km is waaay overrated. They don’t really do so well in real life.
In terms of benefits (like the taxi drivers I’ve asked) is not so much the fuel saving when driving, is that the cars never idle…thus when not moving, its not burning any gas. Of course that can only work in temperate or colder climates…we still need the A/C running here.
this is not good.. hoping that exora hybrid will give buyers better package then this..
It’s like telling the customers the “Gearbox” ll last for 3/4 years n need RM10K+ for a replacement, only that this is not a gearbox but a ‘battery’. Here not US/UK, here, car price sky high, hybrid my assz rofl…wanna save the environment? control the birth rate!
Cost for Civic Hybrid battery inflated! Last time asked SE back in early 2008, RM8500 for replacement. Now after discount still RM10,200… Herm…
Guess it is still not practical to have hybrids for long run… all second purchasers will QUESTION about that battery…
Then we will start to see a lot of ‘chop-shop’ batteries, that is to be replaced like, every 2 years but in fraction of the price…
Prius & Civic hybrid half-cuts already seen around KL area… Even estima hybrid half-cuts have been ordered from Japan just to replace some ‘expensive’ parts in Malaysia..
Funny thing is that US Prius has a 8-year, 160,000km warranty while California (and some other states) have a 10-year, 240,000km warranty. How come ours is so short?
Could this be an indication that the battery will not last as long in our hot and humid climate? The Toyota sales guy showed me how the batteries in the Prius are cooled, which indicates they will probably get very warm at least, probably hot in our tropical weather.
Closed market syndrom.
Why offer 10 year warranty when people will still buy if you offered 5?
Mitsubishi and Hyundai(and KIA) has been offering 10 year warranties….for donkey years now (in a market that in average, people don’t even keep cars that long)…don’t see it happening here.
Simple…UMW and Honda has no guts to ensure the battery can last so long!
UMW and Honda are kiasu!!
can the hybrid car become a normal petrol car?
i mean without the battery..
can but bear in mind the civic hybrid engine is 1.3L only..so ull be driving an underpowered car if without the help of the batteries..its like using push cart to move an elephant
it is possible, because when the battery level is low, the engine will be running automatically to re-charge them.
prius cant be a normal car ….it need the battery.
no battery? your car wont starts!
No need to give testimonial of overseas taxies.Just give the customers battery warranty at least 10 years which the clocking of mileage of almost 400kkm.If heavy car user.
Lots of 2nd gen civic hybrids around the world are experiencing premature battery failure. The star article is misleading. Are we going to see a civic hybrid full of complaints stickers in front of honda service centres next??
http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2010/08/honda-civic-hybrid-batteries-failing-early-owner-complaints-piling-up.html
http://www.hybridcars.com/forums/premature-ima-battery-failure-p1433-code.html
dun compare the battery from foreign country.
anything come to malaysia is downgrade.
11k for battery replacement? many will jump off building.
give warranty 10 years and 500 000 km , then i buy
then don’t buy .. simple as that !
you can always buy the more expensive CKD Honda Civic for a more expensive price and use more fuel !
we have already saved > 10K from the TAX free and now you want to compare with the petrol car.
already tax free you still want to complaint.
Majority of cars in Malaysia get 3 yrs warranty due to our weather……..unless our earth gets tilted 30 degrees in rotation….
yeah lor…some more, always flooded one…this makes the batteries more vulnerable to be damaged by the water
maybe we should do that,,.. rotate bour earth abit
30 deg rotation??!! haha
fiesta 6 years
some hyundai 5 years
t n h and proton and p2 go for 3 years
Makes you rethink about their 2nd hand value.
Must take this into consideration…
The prices quoted are current prices. It may increase in 3 or 5 years time if/when the battery fails. Definitely will cost more then.
Lets say 300000KM in 7 years time and price of battery then is RM14K. Is it worth it to spend RM14K on a 7 year old car?
now its 12k laaa..but imagine the price in 5 years time…i bet it will be between 5-6k only…can save 50% petrol also not satisfied..like that juz maintain ur fuel thirsty car laaa..no need to replace battery maaa..wakakaka
maybe they should use the famous slogan for Honda Hybrid : “Smart people get it” roflz..
Wow, just read the article on Edmunds. Pretty damming.
The thing about US onramps, people drive 65 -75mph (Speed limit or higher) even on the slow lanes…and to make matters worst, the onramp merging lanes are very short (usually 2/3 the lenght of those on our NS Hyw – there is a reason why cars there all have big powerful engines) Merging on a Hybrid Civic is heartstopping in itself, i can’t imagine driving one with an assist problem.
Been in one Civic Hybrid with 3 on board with lugguage…it barely merged in.
Everyone read between the lines. The 3-year warranty is NOT a technical issue, it is a MONEY issue because UMW and Honda Malaysia does not want to reduce their profits.
US based Toyota and Honda hybrids have much longer warranty periods at lower prices.
well majority of those talking here won’t buy a hybrid anyway…so i don’t see why so much argument…it’s just like telling somebody who bought a peugeot that he’ll be burdened by high maintenance cost and poor resale value afterwards….
for me u buy a car which fits your requirement, a car that you really want, then u won’t care about the cost afterwards….RM11k for battery replacement is not that expensive if you can afford a RM100k car, i believe most people spend more money that that on cigarettes or booze over 3-4 years, what more 7-9 years…
and why compare the warranty that we have with those in the US, their country work in a very different way…ever wonder why they’re so many recalls over there while almost non in ours? it’s because their law is very protective of their consumers and people can sue the hell out of car manufacturers if something goes wrong….not going to happen here anytime soon…..
In 10 years time hybrid technology would probably be phased out by a better technology. It could be very well be hydrogen technology that would replace the batteries.
The current hybrids seems like a stepping stone to something that is more sustainable economically and environmentally.
I bought the Civic Hybrid, it’s a no brainer. Government gave me a RM20K discount so it’s the cheapest made in Japan Civc you can buy, period! Even if I need to replace the battery after 5 years I still got more leftover from the government discount. Tell me where else can you get a 100% no tax car from the Government? You know you are paying for the relatively real value of the car as opposed to paying more than RM50K just for the tax. On top of that I get petrol allowance from my company and because the hybrid does not use as much as my previous 2000cc turbo Mk 5 GTi I am practically nothing from petrol. FYI VW DSG gearbox cost more than RM20K and I have known a few already that needs replacement, it’s still COTY in many countries.
I am not sure if I will need to replace my battery. I am not sure if the replacement battery will be cheaper. However I am sure petrol prices will go up, road tax will go up and hybrid ids our future! Enjoy it now and save the planet!
please spare us the ‘save the planet’ line. It probably cost a whole lot more energy to mine for these rare earth minerals (forest clearing, heavy duty machinery, huge holes on planet earth) to produce these heavy duty batteries, and it last for 3 to 5 years depending on usage, whereas an ‘almost’ tax free proton car can probably last for 10 to 15 years without the need to replace these ‘eco’ friendly batteries.
Your argument seems logical. Me thinks some people here worry too much.
guys, did u notice price of raw material to made battery from 2005 to 2008. u guess how many percent up? ans is more than 100%. the price is getting up every month. today replacement batt is 12k, how about 10 years later? 24k maybe. better solution is upgrade or multli-grade our diesel supply in country, bring fuel save diesel car!
Dear John,
You are looking at the price of the car with tax and and comparing it without tax, and consider that as your saving. But what you actually need to consider is also the potential resale value.
If you now save RM22k (say, compared with Civic 2.0) but 5 years later, you decide to sell the car but its only worth half of what it was (say around RM50k, maybe less, maybe more) but the Civic 2.0 is worth more (say RM80k) because potential buyers are worried about the durability of the IMA battery. Savings may only be from in terms of petrol. But if the IMA battery fails on your 4th year of ownership (no one can guarantee this won’t happen), then it may be more expensive.
So you may end up not really saving money. Yeah, you can say you are doing your part to save the environment but for most people, saving our wallets are equally important.
Cost of owning a car is not just about how much you pay initially, but also how much you pay throughout the ownership and how much you can sell it for in the end.
Check this URL out for more insights on the battery
http://www.toyotapriusbattery.com/
Everybody…..Do u know whos buy hybrid car now is very soh hai………one
Wait for few year ……goverment must drop the price……
All the spare part price must drop…….
Dont be a big son…….
please no foul language here. Grow up
what else you want to drop ?
the car is already tax free !!!!!!!!
if you want the car price to drop further then you should go oversea and live there
this is the cheapest car in malaysia as it is already TAX FREE !
1) All Batteries had shelf life and the internal electrolyte will dry up over time due to hot climate and charging cycles. Battery when charged internal cells temperature will reach >45C and battery current capacity degradation over charge cycle. 20K for 3 years or 100Km is for Malaysia boleh…
Driven for 500K km on taxi is sales talk, that 500K is not fully on battery, 80% on petrol? Battery for ground zero (km) to improve FC.
2) Cost of battery per KM is 20K divided by 100Km now, in 3 years the cost will go up plus tax imposed on battery (VAT & service tax), gov cover on excise duty lost.
3) To improve FC on car’s go fix wheel hub motor on your wheel, 12Vdc power converter and controller circuits. Zero to 100 <4sec (4 hub motors plus engine). Don’t forget to change your brake disc to ceramic coated for 100 to zero stopping.
Good Luck
Wow may be have to spend RM12-13k after 5 yrs for replacement. Will seriuosly affect resale value if you decide to sell it.
Technology will prevail as we progress thru time.
Just give it a couple of years and battery prices will move south.
Wait till China mass produces it too!!
Just look at how handphones/ notebooks
batteries have increased capacity w/o sacrificing size and weight.
http://priuschat.com/
Later,
hire purchase the battery la…. better than buy the battery!!!
Tong gas kat rumah, beli sekali je..lepas tu tukar tong gas untuk new tong gas…
Petronas to create new job, sewa-beli & jual battery for Hybrid car…can or not? hehe
SOLUTION?
bring on a proper diesel to Malaysia. and vw n other manufacturer will bring their best diesel engine car.
well let’s face some reality, Euro 4 or Euro 5 diesel is probably 5-10 years away from arriving in Malaysia….so pretty much what’s offered now is the only solution for good fuel mileage so far….want better fuel economy need to get a motorcycle la….
use motorcycle?i rather die in lrt.
what wrong with motorcycle?
is it because you dont have B2 license?
abit off topic here, hmm, what car Albert Einstein used to drive? u think he ll choose Prius?
Just curious is the price mentioned above including the workmanship? 11 to 12k ain’t really cheap but in the long run if it does cover the petrol why not? :)
Yes but petrol station dont us ask to pay 12k in advance for fuel right?
This battery replacement need separate insurance cover or small loan by banks.
just buy a small car/second hand car like kelisa manual, myvi manual or savvy manual for weekday journey to office. still had great fuel consumption some more and relatively small issue on maintenance site..
Then, range extender should pave the way of the future…
range extender? you mean like the one in the EMAS? batteries are still required lah. else, what is the petrol engine suppose to extend the range of? just that maybe the battery might be smaller
There u have it. Warranty is 3 years only. After that, u must spend RM 12k otherwise the car is useless. Btw, the CVT gearbox is no angel too. It can fail also and when it does, expect another RM 35k easily.
Still want to save the planet?
Hi Paul,
Still the lowest of warranty period among so many country
which i mentioned inside your blog regarding the Prius price reduce to RM139K that night.
Australia 8 years, Japan 10 years for Prius…
But Malaysia just 3 years or 100,000 km whichever come 1st.
Many of us don’t know the actual reason behind the Battery, whether is convention battery, Hybrid Battery, Calcium-Calcium Expanded Plate Battery or Deep Cycle Battery(marine use)… All of this kind of cell there are facing the biggest problem, that is HOT WEATHER….
Those country located at equator( garisan khatulistiwa) like Malaysia, SIngapore, Indonesia, Africa country, will kill all type of battery life span…..
Back to many years ago, the 1st batch of Korea Calcium-Calcium(MF) battery( which majority of the Malaysian called it as ” Dry Battery” enter Malaysia market, they give 2 years warranty, but the nightmare come after 9th month on the road, end up all of the balance stock, recall back to Korea…
Until today, those MF Battery, we still only able to get max 1.5 year warranty…. While EURO or Japan still able to get 3 years warranty….
Paul, honestly non of the UMW Toyota or Honda willing to clarify this warranty matters, but i can share with you all about the story about Automative Battery….
UMW TOyota and Honda should give us at least 5 years or 175,000km warranty since you know there is a potential may happen…. Not to set it at 3 years @ 100,000 km which you are high possibility to avoid to pay for the warranty claim…..
I estimate the saving on fuel let say about RM20 per tank and around RM80 per month and 960 per year. That means it takes around 10 years to recover the cost of battery but you already need to replace it around 3-4 years due to Malaysian weather. Unless you are lucky enough to have a ‘kong’ battery just before 3 years warranty is up. Not mentioning Hybrid car will get cheaper and cheaper, who will buy this second hand Hybrid?
u forgot arrrr petrol price always increase…so rite now might save rm20 only but in future maybe higher..u dont have to wait till 10 years to recover the cost…it may took only 6-7 years!
hey, i got a question here.. A battery cost about rm12000.
# The Toyota Prius battery costs RM11,500.
# The Honda Civic Hybrid battery costs RM12,000 but there is a 15% discount for customers who buy from authorized dealers.
what about the service charge??
I remember people saying rm17K for battery changing for Prius. So.. Does it sum up to be rm17K after the initial cost of rm11500?
Brother,
If include the labor cost and installation… is about RM16K for Prius…
Not sure about the CH….
I wonder how is the insurance policy coverage for such car. Anybody can share? I wonder is there any difference than normal cars?
No worry, Tokio Marine and MSIG is the best business partner with Toyota and Honda
But latest news heard that, Tokio Marine plan to discontinue the corporate business with Toyota due to the high theft ratio for Hilux and Camry…..
MSIG surely will be forever business partner, because in Japan both of the company is under the same roof
Lets wait and see la…
what is the kick of driving a hybrid car? to show the world that we are green and environmentally friendly? Cmon. For every 3 years the need to change battery at RM10k, that is equivalent to me pumping V Power Racing at RM400 per month. A year at RM4.8k. That is equivalent to almost 2.5 years of fuel cost which i consume. wat is the point?
ahmmm, wonder what warranty will Proton give to the MAS model, 1 year? 2 years? Never hope for 3 years….
Why nowadays malaysian so kiasi. Negative aura is more than positive. We’re living in 21st century and should adapt with new technology available in market. The more peoples buy, the price will drop. We should think for our future generation. Do you want your children living in dirty air and environment? Don’t be so selfish and negative mind. Help to save the earth. I’m sure everyone has a right to do so. Cheers.
Macho you are right..save the world please..we have children
I do agree with previous posting from a forumer,.
world population contributes to earth destruction. People are consuming too much with restricted resource. :-)
if it is a proton hybrid, the new battery would cost more than the car after a few years.
Toyota / Honda should sell the Hybrid without the battery and reduce the price of the Car by RM12K. The buyer can then lease the Battery from T/H for RM100 per month with the condition that the Car / battery must be send for servicing every 10KM / 6-mths.
Pros for this is:
For Buyer – no worries about Battery replacement cost or durabality. Will have confidence in buying the car. Who cares about Warranty. Spoli, just change new one at no cost.
For T/H – More buyers and over 10-years, they still get RM12K, the cost of the battery (less interest over the 10-years of course).. Buyers also will send back to ASC for maintenance, hence, more biz.
Most comments here are referring to LIFETIME COST OF OWNERSHIP. The product proposition is the sum total of capital outlay (cost of new car) + running cost (including the apparently high cost of battery with its attendent risk due to “short” warranty period).
For now, T&H would do well to reconfigure their product packaging to allay the fears of potential buyers (many of whom would be 1st timers) by extending the warranty to say 8 – 10 years.
Additionally, if the govt sincerely want to encourage n spread the message of environmentally proactive affirmative action amongst its citizens in the broadest possible term and manner of application, it should not just look at the issue of the battery cost (by reducing tax n duties(?), local manuf etc.,etc.) but it must also seriously look at the advanced diesel / diesel hybrid technology alternatives route. The Govt’s responsibility is to provide the fertile breeding ground for the local auto industry to participate proactively towards expanding the market for environmentally responsible vehicles, with or without PROTON (and to a lesser extent, PERODUA).
Aiyoo, why so worry about the replacement of battery or the car under power (when run without battery) ect….
Remember we stay at bolehland apa pun boleh so ask all the ANJINGDIA and KUCINGDIA to redesign the engine and the battery. For instant honda insight only produce 98 HP so replace with the K20 engine (from chop shop) and battery can change to 800V(made in china of couse) instead of the original 100.8V. Your CAR is perfect now, right???
Save the earth
From biz point of view, they can’t extend the warranty as other countries because it will not worth to bring in the car to Malaysia market. Who wanna make losing biz?
Averagely you need to achieve at least 25% better in FC monthly for the price of a new hybrid battery after the 7th year. Actually, there is no saving on your spending but you save 25% of fossil fuel. The cost of maintenance is obviously higher too because you have additional parts such as motor, battery and the control unit.
Beside battery of said MYR11.5K, nobody realizes the price of the motor. Take an example of industrial DC motor in my plant, 45kW costs us MYR55K new and rewinding every 5~7 years cost us MYR12K each time. I believe, this hybrid motor is nothing less than 15K per new unit. Not to mention 10~15% drop in efficiency upon every rewinding.
I agree with the earlier posters said diesel engine is a better option now and hydrogen engine is the near future energy source.
The hybrid uses an AC motor so I think the motor is almost maintenance free and should last a long long time.
Yes I agree Diesel engine is greener, don’t need to worry about disposing batteries, less parts and cheaper.
Honda (M) said :15% discount for customers who buy from authorized dealers.
if you come to me i give you 60++% discount. Actually the battery can rebuilt !
rebuilt or refurbish, then new business will be up
a modern commonrail tubodiesel egine using low sulphur diesel or own biodiesel will increase efficiency, reduce air pollution and decrease the need for monumental change and plays to our strength in palm oil. for all that, and it will beat a hybrid in Fc terms and save the world at a far lower cost.
but we are not going to do that coz that will kill off proton saga or exora hybrid with eveready battery packs! LOL!
Yup, the government should invest in biodiesel or bioethanol instead of promoting hybrid. hybrid is more of a hype at the moment.
how many years to “catch” 500K km…..compare fuels burning during that period….
RM11k battery replacement its look advantage
Actually the battery is not the worrying part, the reason those batteries cost so much is because their durable and powerful.
However the maintenance is worrying. With those lousy service center in Malaysia, how the hell is the hybrid gonna be maintained properly. Hopefully there is or will be a some special service center hybrid owners can go to.
Remember the honda city gearbox CVT problem due to workshops putting wrong transmission fluids in.
guys i read all of your comments. i think that the battery will not spoil in hot enviroment country like malaysia because the battery is designed to take heat. and one more thing the battery you need to change it every 10 years. Just think by ten years time the car is already in bad condition so just buy a new one then.
If the battery are so reliable, why in the US have such company?
http://www.hybridrevolt.com
http://www.hybrid-battery-repair.com
scary info..
On average, those NiMH batteries are estimated to last 7-10 years here.
NIMH battery means the toyota or honda??
Both are using the same type of battery I believe, but the one in Toyota Prius should have a higher capacity since it’s a full hybrid with all electric mode.
I just place an order for toyota prius. the salesman told me i need to wait till June’11. It’s a long wait and I hope it’s worth every penny i spend.
hi,just to let u all know. I own a civic hybrid. Just changed the battery recently,foc because within warranty. And the new battery come with 5 year warranty also,so no sweat.But,the battery small only,climb genting sempah,halfway already no power.
The mix energy car is still in beginning grow phase, battery technology still in research level, maybe yaer 2025 all new car will be power mix system. Now 2012, better dun buy any mix power cars, let the rich group be the experimental white rat.