I’m sure many of you know about the new Proton Waja that’s going to be released soon (I heard today!) with a Campro engine instead of the Mitsubishi 4G18 that was found in the original Proton Waja. Let’s look at the differences between the two engines.
The Proton S4PH Campro is an inline 4 cylinder 16 valve Double Overhead Camshaft engine. Performance stats are 110hp at 6000rpm and 148Nm of torque at 4000rpm. One look at the stats would give you a slight idea of the torque curve for this engine. With the peak torque coming in at a relatively high RPM, this engine is meant to be a high revver for spirited driving. Gen2 owners have mentioned the torque actually rises, then dips a little at the 3000-4000rpm range before going up again to the maximum 148Nm of torque at 4000rpm.
On the other end of the ring, we have the 4G18. The Mitsubishi 4G18 is an inline 4 cylinder 16 valve Single Overhead Camshaft engine. It makes 102 horsepower at 6000rpm and 140Nm of torque at 2750rpm. Big amounts of torque at low revs is a typical characteristic (not all the time though) of SOHC engines, making it a nice and stressless drive in city driving situations.
Unless Proton retunes the Campro to readjust the torque curve for more torque at lower RPMs, I think the Waja Campro is going to be a sluggish drive as you’d have to rev pretty high all the time to get decent acceleration. Even Gen2 owners are complaining, and the Waja is a 1205kg car, abit heavier than the Gen2’s 1190kg.
I think Proton are aiming for a more continental approach when it comes to an executive sedan. Most continentals do not have extremely good acceleration, however, the mid range is plausible and it does better at higher speeds.
As the case is for Malaysians, it will not stop many of them from modifying it anyway.
The Gen 2 to me is a failure. Hopefully they do not inject a Gen 2 heart into a Waja. It'll be decapitating for Proton.
I'd like to enjoy city driving with a Honda City, it's truely a pleasure for pause-and-continue driving experience. While running high torque at lower rpm and rather low fuel comsuption, this is the trend for a sedan car must go.
Waja with higher torque Mitsu engine currently already picking up quite slowly with its heavy weight, some more go backward to install weaker engine, quite ridiculous…
They are, my friend… and they did! lets see how it will fare… outlook is not very bright, but as always, ppl will say there's light at the end of tunnel… but my personal opinion, just smile and wave goodbye…
This is ridiculous, why are they putting a high spirited rev happy engine in to a car that is meant to be driven properly. As I recall, the Waja was Malaysia's answer to the BMW 3 series for Asia. I own a Waja as well and I personally think it is better than a Gen-2 anyday.
The fuel consumption on a Gen-2 is even worse than the Waja. I certainly hope they would rethink this because in a time and place where petrol prices are increasing every time we turn our back, this is a "wrong place at the wrong time" concept.
The cutoff of low end torque with the new Campro means we have to keep the revs higher than usual equals the higher consumption of petrol and noisier engines. Added the fact that the Waja is like a tank compared to the Gen-2 means that it needs even more power to push it in the low RPM range. This is absurd.
gen2 fuel consumption is even worst than bmw 325
any detail?
Wah laueh…
i think proton try to save cost from buying engines from Mit. & same time can reduce cost to produce campro engine (for waja & gen2). try to recover loses in MV … haha… I think later may come out Saga with campro 1.3 (i m quite sure it will happens…)
i am worrying about the quality rather than the type of engines. In our pot & hole road condition, low quality parts can't serve for long…
update: the power is higher——— 82kW as opposed to 4G18—-76kW. Still trying to find out the torque.
speaking from experience, recent batches of Gen2 have seen tremendous improvement on fuel consumption. Proton had taken the initiative to look into tuning and remapping (if that's the correct term) the ECU of Gen2, the result -better performance and lower fuel consumption. The problem with CamPro engine from my point of view is that it requires higher rev and Gen2 noise isolation is poorly done, such that at high speed this car loses, in term of comfort, to other models.
CamPro in a WAJA, hmm.. interested to test drive..
anyone has the details of the specs? i hv difficulty looking for it. !!! sigh……..
Initial D: Didn't I type the specs in the blog article?
blame the new mangement la..hahahaha..anyway not fair for this topic to condemn new proton management in a car we havent even test drive yet..
but at other decisions…i say it's fair game….
looking forward to hear more news on this… if the review is good and the price is right, might recommend to my mum who's keen on replacing the family's Satria GTi with something more spacious.
there were rumors of the Waja going to receive a facelift sometime back, the news seems to have died down. any idea what's the latest news? :D anyway, a campro in a waja certainly sounds interesting…
I say, this is also a good move, and a prove new management doing works. 1stly, they cannot make a big change since we knew to make a car is about 1 – 2 years of research and modelling ba bla.
So small move but worthy like this is a good move i reapeat.
Cutting cost, more campro engine on the road, more people use campro.. the the engine price will reduce by the time to time!..
Does anyone notice there that Campro is DOHC over Mits SOHC ? .
It's not mean DOHC over SOHC all the way. But it's about new or old way.
Waja 1.6 Campro AMT? Yeah.. that's sound good! Proton have a trademark now..
"Many people still love and wait for proton". and i do believe inside our heart :
We will never sell our Proton to others. Am i?
paul Tan: those r gen2 specs. FOr waja , maybe they tune it. the HP for the waja is 112hp. still looking 4 the torque.
agree with catborg except new management is doing works….does this mean if the srm is released then they will get the credit?
new waja … perhaps you'd get a DVD player as well?
This is an interesting development from Proton. Proton will definitely configure the campro Waja peak torque curve to lower RPM.
Proton definitely have to start using the campro engines to re-coup the intial investment on campro R&D which i'm sure must be huge.
It is only logical now to maximise the campro economies of scale to improve the profit margin which all of us heard is in dire state. The experience & lessons learned from Gen2 might have given them the confidence to try out on Waja which is selling better than Gen2 (sic).
The comments from Catborg on the possibility Waja campro with AMT, that I got to agree will be VERY INTERESTING to me. What with the ever increasing blood sucking petrol prices. A less thirsty Waja engine looks REALLY APPEALING. If Campro can be matched with Renault gear box that is.
got nothing to say before friends in proton edar do a road test first.
:)
I'm waiting for the real campro with variable valve capability… if unable to beat Vtec or others in term of power, at least make it to reduce fuel consumption… then all of us can be really proud of campro as what they name it… if forever DOHC… the name is just meaningless…
i heard proton had that technology..but new management direction seems leaning toward finding partners and just do rebadging..then they goyang kaki main golf.LOL
i think people are already working on NOHC…no overhead cam (shafts). Actually i made up that NOHC thing but i read somewhere sometime ago that renault (F1) was looking into omitting the camshafts and making the intake and exhaust openings be controlled electronically. By doing this, they would have less moving parts and lighter engines. Don't know wether they've succeed or not but can you imagine…soon dohc would be out dated and variable valve timing would not depend on cam shafts profile. proton cannot brag about cam shaft profiling anymore. Come on proton…why not beat renault to it …
simple logic on y proton want to install campro into waja…let's say u sells motor insurance..will u still buy motor insurance from others??of course not..same goes with proton..they developed this campro engine…y not install it into waja??can save cost and earn more..however,i'm not too sure about its power or performance..
good start. but whether is a good move we don't know yet… as some guy said, such engine at such heavy body work… emm… i doubt the output meet the expectation…
cheers…
any chance Proton might debut the CPS (cam profile switching) version of its campro engine? i heard that this engine has variable cam phasing just like vvti and i-vtec, and that it pumps out 127 bhp (95 kW) and 108 lb 150 (150 Nm), with a flat torque curve from around 3000rpm to 6000rpm. can anyone verify this info?
campro which has variable cam phasing just like vvti and i-vtec? fat chance it'll come with this campro waja… it's a proton… keep on dreaming!
HAHAHAHA…SO BROTHER…COME ON LA..NOW U CAN SEE MANY CPS ON THE ROAD….
burn said,
January 13, 2006 @ 9:15 pm
i think people are already working on NOHC…no overhead cam (shafts). Actually i made up that NOHC thing but i read somewhere sometime ago that renault (F1) was looking into omitting the camshafts and making the intake and exhaust openings be controlled electronically. By doing this, they would have less moving parts and lighter engines. Don’t know wether they’ve succeed or not but can you imagine…soon dohc would be out dated and variable valve timing would not depend on cam shafts profile. proton cannot brag about cam shaft profiling anymore. Come on proton…why not beat renault to it …
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The technology of electronically controlling the valves have been around for 15 years already. Active Valvetrain or AVT was developed by Lotus Engineering 15 years ago. Unfortunately until now, the only feasible area of using this technology is for the Homogeneous Compression Charge Ignition Engine (HCCI) a.k.a. Controlled Auto Ignition Engine (CAI) where the air fuel mixture is ignited without a spark. Instead, the gas mixture is compressed similar to diesel engines. This would result in relatively lower ignition temperature (about 900C, apart from 1400C) and thus considerably lowering NOx emissions. The problem is producing a production engine using this technology is still yet to be achieved. Don't expect to see one anytime soon.
i think it a good idea to use campro engine instead of mitsu engine….
campro has better power than mitsu and the campro will save millions of proton money.dont have to buy other makes engine anymore,just produce our own engine…………u ppl dont understand!..they use campro bcos the campro low engine vibration give a smooth and luxurios ride,good for old ppl…and the campro engine is design for economical fuel consumption at low rpm…the new waja campro fuel consumption is 6.1litre/100km….0-100km/h in 10.8sec and has a top speed of 190kmh.the campro engine is also designed for long life,no major overhaul needed for 10years or 250,000km……i get this in proton website…lets all go for a test drive tomorrow at mutiara damansara..ive heard it will launch tomorrow.ive also heard that the new waja price is cheaper than the old one and has leather seat some more..
if the new waja is really good,than proton will have to dump penguin and have a bright future…
I dont understand why people keep saying Gen.2 fuel consumption is high…what are the comparison? The drag coefficient of Gen.2 is at respectable 0.30 which should help reduce consumption during long journey.I seriously enjoy my Gen.2 on the highway although it is true the acceleration is sluggish if you stopped at the red light. If people still prefer old Mitsu engine, they can still look in the pre-owned market at reduced pricing. One of the reason, from my reading, that solenoid operated valves engine is difficult to be commercialised is because of the high electrical consumption needed. If they can solve this problem, we will have cars that have a truely flat torque curve.
using own engine, yeah, can save proton money, but the savings not passed to the consumer… stil continue to suck the rakyat dry by adding on unimportant accessories to justify its pricing, which is merely rm300 cheaper.
remember, somebody used to say that by using own engine can cut cost up to 30% due to no need to pay royalty to mitsubishi… surely those few unimportant accessories won't totally amount to the 30% savings, does it?
still no abs and airbags offered as standard…
oh yeah, not to forget, stil no variable valve timing with this campro…
i’m not gonna fall for proton’s scam anymore…
once bitten twice shy,
kena once, can say unlucky,
kena twice, it's pure bad luck,
but kena THRICE, cars from Proton just plain lousy big time!!!!
speed jungkie,
does vtec engines use the system? VTEC means variable timing and electronic lift control right? but they have cam shafts if i'm not mistaken.
good info from shaymen and chedi….thanx guys.
my mistake, it's RM300 MORE EXPENSIVE, NOT CHEAPER!!!!
looking at the chart la..in terms of fuel savings the campro is more effecient from 3.5k rpm onwards..the torque from there just spikes upward compared to 4g18…would be usefull for long distance and urban out of town driving…but in stop and go and i mean really bumper to bumper traffic…the 4g18 is also good…depends on our choice and driving,usage la…both are good…i think proton is wise4 to fully utilise the campro…thanks for tun and tm for the campro project…
burn said,
January 14, 2006 @ 12:55 pm
speed jungkie,
does vtec engines use the system? VTEC means variable timing and electronic lift control right? but they have cam shafts if i’m not mistaken.
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VTEC still uses cam shafts to open and close the valves, and it is mechanically driven (using oil pressure difference and metal pins etc). The electronic part is how the ECU signals to the engine to change between one valve timing to another. It doesn't use the AVT system.
if campro with vvt-i or vtec……….i may interesting………
i m one of the gen2 victims……
I think its a good move for proton to use Campro. No need to import Mitsu engines and gearboxes, for WAJA. Hopefully Proton will start making a 1.2 Campro to replace the Renault D4F engine in my Savvy (anyway, that D4F engine rocks!). And ALSO, stop production of Wiras coz the replacement for the Wira is already almost 2 years old in the market (GEN.2). I think, the Wira's design is totally outdated, and i would like to see a replacement of the SAGA soon (of course using Campro 1.3 la..) Hmm… maybe we'll have a 1.3 Campro WAJA in the future eh???? Btw, can't wait to test drive the WAJA Campro.
HatukNgkau said,
January 14, 2006 @ 12:19 pm
using own engine, yeah, can save proton money, but the savings not passed to the consumer… stil continue to suck the rakyat dry by adding on unimportant accessories to justify its pricing, which is merely rm300 cheaper.
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oii hatuk engkau….
have u seen the car or not?have u test drive it?….kalau belum,dont talk much la brader..the car have leather seat,cd player with mp3 and bluetooth connection,revised aircond vent for passenger,new meter cluster and leather door trimmings….test drive it first then give comment after that to proton mutiara damansara,so that proton can improve la brader,jangan cakap tak tentu arah mcm org g(tut)a…
Shaymen,
Chill bro, All of us here including HatukNgkau are just speculating. If we can't even speculate, this thread would be emptier than the pocket of a beggar. All we are offering are our views. Flaming is not condoned here in reference to Paul's outburst.
Bluetooth connection??? Please get your facts straight before posting.
cbljkkj said,
January 15, 2006 @ 11:34 am
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it really have bluetooth la fren…go and see it at the showroom la fren…
i dont need all those fancy stuffs,
if i want that i can always find "Brothers"
wat i need is ABS and Airbags INCLUDED as STANDARD,
i want more safety not only for me,
but also other road users,
pedestrians and my whole family…
and i believe it's the same too for most 35 years old and above drivers…
we're no longer hot-blooded young man, craving for speed and thrill… i'd get a Gen2 if i want that…
Yes, i think ABS and Airbags should be standard feature today. But, above all: don't forget to fasten seatbelts (including rear passengers)
#
HatukNgkau said,
January 15, 2006 @ 5:49 pm
i dont need all those fancy stuffs,
if i want that i can always find “Brothersâ€
wat i need is ABS and Airbags INCLUDED as STANDARD,
i want more safety not only for me,
but also other road users,
pedestrians and my whole family…
and i believe it’s the same too for most 35 years old and above drivers…
we’re no longer hot-blooded young man, craving for speed and thrill… i’d get a Gen2 if i want that…
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u can get the gen2 highline la.gti dulu pun ada.abs airbag all ada…so stop whining..u think all other manufacturers have full specs on every model ka?…u pay premium,u get premium..dont forget the lest fortunate who cannot get full specs…why nobody complain when p2 dont offer abs n airbags to all their model?ha?some people dont want those stuff…they just want basic model…see…first gen2 come out no airbag..after customer complain now got airbag on h-line….i suggest u go and test drive first and complain in a nice and calm manner to proton edar…
it's not that proton dont have airbags n abs…gti came out long ago…wira 1.8 le oso got abs long time ago….just complain to proton and ask them to put in all cars..i bet the most selling are without them…that's why they got multiple models..now everyone can buy..hahahahahah
yeah.. they do have ABS( first generation which only work oneside), airbag( first generation and never work!), so call ebd( haywired all the time), low quality break pad( easily overheated and fade and very2 dusty!), efi which only allow car to be driven at 50km/h, campro engine( which i myself got sweat to rev it all the time), steering mounted sound controller( which last not more then 1 year), easily broken airvent, bla bla bla. and stop squeelling to somebody else as if you never had( probably have not seen) a mirror before. go back to your own cave/mud if you still want to do so. supposed this place is meant for civillized people, am i wright paul?
I agree with paramsingwalia. Not all car maunfacturers include ABS and Airbags on their cars. The Chevrolet Aveo 1.5 also don't have ABS and Airbags.
#
revver said,
January 15, 2006 @ 7:55 pm
yeah.. they do have ABS( first generation which only work oneside), airbag( first generation and never work!), so call ebd( haywired all the time), low quality break pad( easily overheated and fade and very2 dusty!), efi which only allow car to be driven at 50km/h, campro engine( which i myself got sweat to rev it all the time), steering mounted sound controller( which last not more then 1 year), easily broken airvent, bla bla bla. and stop squeelling to somebody else as if you never had( probably have not seen) a mirror before. go back to your own cave/mud if you still want to do so. supposed this place is meant for civillized people, am i wright paul?
———————-why must go complaint to paul…ehheehhe…like little girl…then say i squel…ahahahahahh…
brake fade and dusty…bmw's and merc pads are dusty…go complain la…try pushing ur p2 checy hard for more tahn 10 minutes..sure fade jgk
campro got to rev…try telling that to honda with their vtec…
efi to be driven 50kmh?…ur screw up la man…and try telling that to mitsu's mivec MD tech.
as for ur other complaints..dont tell me other makes of cars never had peoblems…even camry new engine cought fire…seen a few vios with window jatuh problems..and dont get me started on the koreans and p2+avanza…
and the ratio of 10 proton equals to 1 other makes of car,,,surely proton got more chances of problem than those small number of car..
just like when scientist say ur more vulnerable to be striked by lightning than eaten by shark…ya la…cos humans live on land not sea…if humans live under the sea sure la chances are higher…
CamPro Waja aye? Damn I hate TMNet. I missed out a lot these last few days. Somebody please post here if you tested drive it. I'm sure will if I do.
It's about time Proton start capitalising their resource. If I'm not mistaken, when they announce the CamPro project, initially they are planning from 1.3L up to 2.0L (correct me I'm wrong). But I haven't heard anything new on the 2.0L though.
Does CamPro really has the cam profiling? This is something that I still doubt as some people said that Proton roll out the CamPro without the cam profiling. Is this true? Anyone know?
I get to drive both the Gen.2 manual and auto last week. All I have to say is, they still need to do more fine tuning of the engine to squeeze out the maximum power that it has to offer. I do believe it suppose to have more umpph in a continental way.
For town driving, I'd go for Waja auto instead of Gen.2's anytime. Better lower end torque. But when driving on rural road and need to overtake…hahah…you do the math. Oh btw, need some clarification here. Has Proton impose T.U.V on the Gen.2 yet? I'd like to see the result if they have. Thanks.
Param, where did u see me whining, my friend? in fact i have already been nice and calm, both here, Proton's SC, and to Proton itself… only that Proton and its affiliates choose not to listen to my complaints and suggestions from a customer… well, it's their lost anyway, wat could i do? bomb them to get their attention? wat good would i get in the end anyway? a brand new, problem-free waja?
by the way, other carmakers in malaysia did not include those bcoz our weak Law does not make it a must. they merely follows Proton's footstep and took advantage of it, and sadly, profit from that.
in other developed and developing countries, most of them requires cars to have both ABS and Airbags as standard before allowing them to be on the roads. they did that to ensure their own rakyat's lives are better protected. Even when Proton wants to enter their market, Proton has to comply and put in airbags and ABS before they could get into the country…
however, our beloved government did not make it compulsory for cars to have ABS and airbag as standard accessories. Have u ever wondered W-H-Y? does that mean our government does not sayang us rakyat?
Our country holds the record as having the highest number of death toll caused by vehicular accidents on the road in ASIA every year! is that something we could be proud of?
I have heard from some other ppl, that the government did not make it compulsory bcoz it would have cause Proton's cost to skyrocket. although it sounds perfectly making sense, however, i have no means to verify this…
i am still wondering why would the government did not make it compulsory for all new cars to be assembled with these as standard accessories? this would also force all other carmakers, not only Proton, to comply and provide better and safer cars for the rakyat's consumption. if the government is really sincere in making its road safety campaign a success, they should have done this a long time ago…
nonetheless, both Proton and Perodua, despite there is no such ruling to make it compulsory to add ABS and airbags as standard accessories, as a "National Carmaker" as it has always wanted to portray itself as, bearing the flag of Malaysia, could and should, take the bold step to do a service to the nation, in good faith and as a goodwill, put such safety equipments as standard accessories at minimum cost. Havent they heard of Corporate Social Responsibility?
oh, Hatuk forgot… they're merely Crony Income Enrichment Project…
well… by the time the loan for my current waja is fully repaid, i guess it's bye-bye Proton then… maybe some other makes. or maybe i'd just ride the "National Bike" Modenas to work and ferry my family around… i guess it wont make much difference anyway… perodua's cars are too small to be safe while the bigger brother Proton refuse to make safer cars on the grounds of cost and profits…
dengan ini saya sudahi dengan serangkap pantun (ala Karam Singh Walia)
once bitten twice shy,
kena once, can say unlucky,
kena twice, it’s pure bad luck,
but kena THRICE, cars from Proton just plain lousy big time!!!!
hahahhaha..good one hatuk..but ur major source of complaint is the goverment…not proton…ur now saying that the govt needs to imply those stricter rules…but my friend..if all car those that..then prices will skyrocket and those small earners cant afford any new cars…kancil will have to come with abs and airbags…price will be 40k…pity those villager..u want them to drive their old datsuns till die ka…menacing and road hogging the roads at 30kmh…and dont start at reducing taxes…proton also pay taxes to the govt..new waja at is at 14k+ of taxes my friend…u do the math la…that money is supposed to pay for rakyat fuel subsidies..but where gone?and those imported cars lagi teruk…hahahaah…underdeclare…no taxes for govt..msk poket to queen AP/miti…so now where is the mistake htuk?proton ka?
then rakyat says no taxes for cares better…would u afford to pay 4 to 5 ringgit or more per liter of petrol?…it will reach hundreds to isi minyak…no more petrol subsidies for public…padan muka..now u can go and buy ur luxury car to park in ur house..
and u say complaints not heard..the new waja vents are directly from waja owners complaint…they dont layan complaint from not the proper chanels..maybe they also know that people are blindly bashing..
so stop bashing proton la friend…ur unsatisfied and cheated feeling are more towards the govt…stop making proton the scapegoat whereelse other car makers are also the same..
Saya rasa ramai orang Bolehland masih suka Injin Mitsu sebab kualitinya baik dan spare part pun murah and senang dapat gantian. Tambahan pula Mitsu injin kuasanya pun just nice!
Kalau POTONG Waja guna Campro tak tahulah kualiti boleh stable tak? Bukan tak percaya POTONG jurutera pula rekabentuk pengalaman tapi cuma kita telah banyak kali kena parts kualiti isu kan? Bagi saya, ada sedikit tak suka guna local injin lah. Jadi Saya ada soalan-soalan nak tanya POTONG, seperti berikut:
1) Adakah harga kereta Waja akan lebih rendah? Kononnya POTONG sudah dapat kos down kan? Rakyat mesti dapat manfaat kan.
2) Apakah Warrantinya? 10 tahun? Kalau kurang daripada Mistu, Saya kurang yakin and kurang minat beli Waja lah.
3) Alat gantian harga murah tak? Harga komponen list berbanding design injin Mitsu boleh di paparkan tak?
Bagi saya, Waja masih banyak perminat orang Bolehland, salah satu sebabnya ialah injin masih dari Mitsu. Kalau POTONG tukar ke JENTU….Tak tahulah pembeli-pembeli punya reaksi. Saya mesti tak berapa minat and sokong idea ini jikalau jawaban soalan saya diatas ialah NO, NO, NO.
YAU MOU GAU….CHOR!!
Banyak yang masih dengan typical mentality.
Kancil with AirBag and ABS VS Volvo kotak . = accident sape menang? .
Nak semua bende kualiti gila BAB* . tapi baru tambah RM300 lebih dari harga biasa dah bising.. padahal sudah tambah leatherseat bla blabla .
Tak test pun dah cakap tak best. Blah laa.
Campro – Engine/Sparepart Price will be down IF banyak engine itu digunakan. Sama macam engine mitsubishi. Afsal pandang cikai sangat ke engine campro tu? . Akan digunakan serata dunia juga. So possiblity harga dia akan turun.
BTW. proton patut bukak KILANG bukan diMalaysia.. tapi bukak diindonesia.. dapat buat engin jauh lebih murah dan kos tenaga kerja yang jugak murah.
Negara sekeliling kita / asia tenggara = tak ada langsung yang mampu buat engin.. ada korang pikir.
Buang la pemikiran BASI tuh..
Proton had a plan to JV with Indonesian company to assemble Proton's car at Indonesia. But, the plan under Mahalel, dunno if the new management have any interest to keep the project going or just dump it.
I'm agree with catborg about reducing the production cost by producing the engine in Indonesia. That way, waja can replace wira-Gen2 in my opinion not appropriate as its more on spirited driving, wira and waja more on family oriented. Waja with wira prices sure a hit in the market.
Is there any hope that waja being assembled in Tg.Malim plant as the plant is more robotised oriented, less human error. At the moment Tg. Malim plant is still under utilised.
agree with catborg and shaif…
proton plant in indonesia…u see,under mahaleel he's always thinking forward…under new management….sell of,rebadge…stop development,take commision and makan gaji buta main golf..hahahahahah
we just hv to wait for ABS, EBD & Airbag for Waja. They hv tt spec to UK model ofcos it will cater for domestic olso. Just a matter of time. I've seen a wira with these feature, so y not in a Waja? The price?
Well, who's want more safety, just pay de $. Who's not, thn just b xtra careful otr. Buy heavy insurance mayb & write a WILL too.
proton make a basic model so that the poor can afford to buy it…proton is not selfish like some pig here..
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shaymen said,
January 16, 2006 @ 5:12 pm
proton make a basic model so that the poor can afford to buy it…proton is not selfish like some pig here..
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yes..still pay taxes summore for rakyat's fuel…unlike those koreans cars which dont pay sh*t…..
Param… whatever u said just now, although i agree, but are merely symptoms. there are deeper cause to it. they are all interlinked results of government actions trying to protect its GLCs, in this case, Proton (and Perodua to some extent)
our market here, not limited to auto industry, are hugely artificially guided and misaligned. first of all, why would the government put huge fuel subsidy in the first place? we have our own fuel, we wont be affected by world oil price, just like what Brunei did, but stil Government set up Petronas to sell our oil overseas whike buying oil from pak Arabs… and expose ourselves to the risk of everchanging world oil price!
sure, Petronas and government profit from it, but does the rakyat? even if the government claims to have distributed the profit to development, was it done fairly? we still have hardcore poor in those neglected kampungs while the government are busying itself with creating and launching white elephant mega projects! and u're asking me to consider the plight of those villagers? man, u're barking at the wrong tree here…
from artificial fuel price, leads to artificial sense of invincibility everywhere… stufs are considerably cheap, low cost of production (energy, raw material) to transportation (fuel again) to almost everything! hence our average salary reflects the total buying power in accordance to what we sell in the market…
as world fuel price goes up, inflation rises, and cost of living shot up… however do we see our income rise? maybe yes, to some extent but the income rate of increase has never caught up with the rate of inflation. slowly but surely we're feeling the pinch of weakening buying power…
the government had spent too much on those failed and/or one-off and/or "still-not-making-any-profit" mega projects, and to keep this mega projects alive, money has to be poured into them, protections and barriers had to be built around them… well, that's what we see with MAS and Proton, doesn't it?
imagine if the government have less interference in the market… only do the necessary to keep it out of control but enough to let the market (and the industries) grows by itself… we wont have such prohibitive tax controls, we wont have such stupid laws and regulations in place to protect governments pet… maybe we'd have seen these GLCs become a very competitive entity, to be the envy of other private corporate entities…
but alas, it never happened, and will never be. there are still many ppl around who, instead to work for national good, works for their own personal agenda… thus we the true rakyat stil stuck with lousy cars at exhorbitant price while the keris-waving "patriotic nationalist" happily enjoying driving in his Hummer.
my grouse mainly on the government? yeah, to some extent… Proton are always governed by somebody either directly and indirectly linked to the government, doesn't it? most of our laws and policies are formulated with Proton in mind doesn't it? Morally and ethically, Proton is part of government wasn't it?
all in all, it's a ripple/domino effect. one action here will leads to other consequences in totally different, seemingly unrelated industry, either good or bad…
last word, i'm not here to make enemies. i'm here to share what i know to others… they, including u, may choose to accept and together we study on it, or we counter argue without having to resort to shooting each other and calling names… that is so childish… we are grown ups, not a whining child like Proton!
'goldmine' question :
What? U the one think that u can make one another 'Superb' and 'Great' Goverment kah? .. You can aaa??? Ask back to ourselve.
At least, there's no anothers great at least in 'this' teritori aaa.. Almost also influence by Malaysia. I dun think our gov so suck.. yes.. it's 'poor part' a bit, but BETTER THAN ANOTHERS.
Proton is not a childish anymore.. it's just had a Papa those think their chlid is always bad like that.
GO! build your another G if you like. As i 1 myself, never ever can change even a state!
And.. This something i want to ARGUE Hatuk.
Selling our oil to outside and buying pak arab oil. Because, our / here's oil price is high quality. Possibly only can be use for jet/boeing bla bla without much process. But the arab oil kinda normal, not so special, and must cost more for refining it to make it able for plane bla bla..
That's mean : (contoh)
1 tong minyak kita boleh jual RM100
1 tong minyak arab boleh jual RM60.
tidakkah lebih bijak kita jual yang mahal ambil yang murah? ..
Go study!
catborg is right…hatuk ke tuk apa ntah tu must study back…
our oil is higher quality..its a waste to use here…
after u find the facts,..then write another essay about ur oil again..
well… i know that, there's no need for u to remind me on what i had already knew, thank u. however as i had mentioned,
"Petronas and government profit from it, but does the rakyat? even if the government claims to have distributed the profit to development, was it done fairly? we still have hardcore poor in those neglected kampungs while the government are busying itself with creating and launching white elephant mega projects!"
since we only get to know the general world oil price at US$60 per barrel, US$65 per barrel, so and so per barrel, but do we actually know how much that Petronas sold to others? surely it must be higher than the prevailing market price, but how much? dont u wonder what and how the government/Petronas is doing to our national resources which is supposed to belong to all of us and not some crony in particular?
i would, if i am in the position to do something, rather than sitting here shooting nonsense remark to everyone that doesnt agree with me… however i knew that i have one basic right that i can use every 5 years or so… i'd be using it wisely, as i had always been.
now, u dont have to tell me which party to vote for, do u?
yeah la hantuk…our money's goes to ecm libra and first family pocket la..so simple to understand…taht's why they sold everything…u better read my previous posts…i always maintained that this govt is not transparent enough what…
a lot of people are condemning proton based on investment banker la,financial analysist la…do u ever know who they are…here's a clue taken from a clip of
article.
Proton vendors need to buck up
By Doreen Leong
ECM Libra Securities Sdn Bhd analyst Lucius Chong says all is not lost
for Proton as eventually it will be able to strike a deal with another
foreign carmaker.
“I won’t write off Proton as yet. The government won’t let it fail. There
is always value to a national asset. Other carmakers would take note of
Proton’s entry into the Southeast Asia market, which is a growing
market,†he adds.
He says with not much bargaining power left, any future deal could end up
unfavourable to valuations and Proton shareholders.
———————————
see who handles the media and proton and all glc's?please do some reseach on ecm libra la friend,no wonder pantai had been sold to singapore…telekom sold…mas slowly being sold…proton also….now dont tell me there's no commision…
and its not the petronas issue selling oil outside la that makes people poor…its these a few group in the power family who is selling our country for power and wealth…
they put the campro engine bcos it a new engine…and the engine behave like a v-tec engine….u have to rev it trough to feel the power,but ppl complaint bout this campro engine a lot…not like the v-tec bcos it is honda…
3rd world mentality..
I agree with most of the things that Hatuk and Param said. It's an issue of transparency. I know this kinda off from the topic above but it is still an issue regarding Proton. Now, we all know that someone did pocketed the big bucks for himself and his 'fellowship' by selling off our own resources to the foreigners. I wouldn't be suprise if he tries to sell off Petronas too! A cold blooded attempt to re-write the history he think he is. As long as he gets to erase everything related to Tun's legacy. Now, I'm no die-hard supporter of Tun, but isn't it obvious what this bloody fella is doing? I won't elaborate more as I might ended up in ISA. Hahaa…
aksMs said,
January 18, 2006 @ 5:52 am
———————————————————–
just say what u wanna say la mr aksms…if we all are afraid for the isa,then who will defend us?what if tun been defeated by them?who will talk on our behalf?…..the parlimen?all ppl there are oppurtunist,nampak mr no comment bongok then ambil kesempatan,bukan nak betulkan…we are not like teresa kok the racist woman with malay woman supporter…
we just want our gov to be transparent to us….dont sell all our treasure to the foreigners..
hmmm…where are u all this time mr aksms?
aksMs said,
January 18, 2006 @ 5:52 am
————————
agree with u..
i'm one of the malaysians who will stand up and fight..we cannot afford to let those buggers screw us….i will never shut up and let people walk all over me..malaysia is not only for one person/family to get personal wealth…
to neversoft & many others,
waja does have ABS & SRS Airbags…
you pay more you get it…
i've owned a Waja X before.. so yes, those are "standard equipment" on the Waja X…
but if you guys are sticking to the "all cars must have ABS & SRS Airbags"…
then you guys need a small break and rethink everything…
like who should absorb the costs of the upgrade…
are consumers willing to pay?
in most instances, NO. i've seen customers negotiating with Proton Edar salesmen to remove every damn accesories, standard accesories included…
reason given? no need.. nak murah sudah…
those might be only a handful, or just the tip of the iceberg…
most consumers are bargain hunter nowadays… they'd rather go for cheap..
and then following up to be hypocrites and complain the the cheap stuff they bought isn't good.. like HELLO?
you get what you pay, remember?
will the manufacturers absorb the upgrade?
subjectical matter.. depends a lot on WHO/WHY/WHERE/WHEN….
some will absorb, for the sake of their REPUTATION…
other would not, for the sake of the margin earnings…
my view on the Proton issue remains as such:-
– it needs a REAL rebadging… changes to the people in charge.. them or their attitudes… make things work, not costly… and certainly not a new thundercat logo that spells rebadged..
– POLITICS should stay away from it… TOTALLY..
i laud proton's move to FINALLY implement the CAMPRO into the WAJA, especially since the rumours was let out by their own people years ago..
like what the commentors before me had already said…
a good move to finally ease the burden of the R&D costs burdened by Proton…
however, that also does not come with immediate effect, always remember that no matter whatever cost saving projects launched, might still seem expensive at first..
but once the balls starts rolling, the costs will eventually be cheaper… and affordable….
btw, if this waja is actually more expensive by only RM300 compared to the pre-CAMPRO models…
i actually call that a lot cheaper because of the amounts of upgrade they've done to the trim…
allo shaymen….
have test drive one…???
its bullshit man….the acceleration, one must rev high to enable the car to move (sighs)…interior…wow. i like it. like u said. full of leather. but performance wise…naaaaa…contradict my expectation.
with the 110hp @ 6000rpm, my MYvi can simply chicken this campro eventhough the myvi clock 88bhp @ 6600rpm. hahahaha…wakakakaka..but ..huk huk….the interior of myvi, the sit fabric, door trim…dashboard even the carpet…if RUBBISH…looks CHEAP. huk huk
CHOU MI AE JEK!!!!
i test drive one..auto..my myvi also auto.
mmm…the sales person rev the car as high as 4000rpm (trying to impress me) and it only manage to clock 30km/h before shift to second gear..
is that a car…anyone??
DAMION….
WAJA duties imposed…RM 14k over for the excise duty and and over 5k of sales tax…if the G willing to reduce…aaaaa what the hell.
HAIL THE G!!!
The transfer from Mitsubishi 4G18 to CamPro cuase a negative reaction to the Egyptian market. This is due to 2 main reasons:
1. In Egypt, the Japanese manifactured engines are most prefered over any other manifucturing.
2. The drive style in Egypt "Due to the crowded and heavy traffic" tends toward slow driving "under 100 Km/h" also all the highway in Egypt has a speed limit of not more than "100 Km/h". Thus the majority of Egyptian driving is in the range of 2000 to 3000 rpm, Thus the new CamPro engine may be less effective in Egypt and may cuase many complains and thus repealing the market power of WAJA 1.6.
Now there two model of Proton car fitted with Campro engine and maybe many other Proton models will be fitted too.
Expecting more price reduction comming….
150hp for a supercharged 1.6.. Never mind, I'll pass… Still love my Mazda Lantis V6 2.0 with LSD and 170HP.. and not to mention the glorious sound..
quite a fat torque curve 4 the campro… not good 4 cruising at low rev, but a cracker for anyone hu wants to try powersliding :)… im an optimist so i go wit anything that comes.. good fun after 4000rpm definitely.. anything lower, then yeah, terrible.
arsyad.. we are in 2009 while all of them above is from 2006… so now we got what they don't have…. THE WAJA LANCER WITH 1.8 ENGINE..
zaman waja dah over cipan semua..timbul pulak zaman preve..tukar topik lak..preve ni orang kata best handling ke??
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