A friend of mine and I have always pondered, what was our Prime Minister doing when he handed out abolishment duty for inbound Japanese CBU and CKD packs by 2010 in exchange for duty free export of “fruits” (and others) to Japan in the recent Japan-Malaysia Economic Partnership Agreement (JMEPA), since we do not export any cars to Japan.
What we did not realise is duty free access to the Japanese market has increased the worth of Proton and it’s Tanjung Malim plant tremendously. A report by Forbes quoting AFX News says that the Malaysian government has short-listed Volkswagen AG to be Proton Holdings Bhd’s strategic alliance partner. Of course, being short-listed doesn’t mean Volkswagen will be the final partner chosen. Recent statements by the PM himself mentioned that the strategic partner will only be decided by Quarter 1 2007.
If Volkswagen is indeed The One, the deal will involve Volkswagen taking a 51% controlling stake in Proton’s manufacturing arm. Volkswagen wants to penetrate the Japanese market, and this is the reason for it’s keen interest in Proton – to use Tanjung Malim as an assembly base for Japan-bound cars. In return, Proton will receive sales aids and technology transfer.
Related Links: JMEPA Press Statement Page 1, Page 2
OOOOOOO…
Goddammit… Now Volkswagen has seen the advantage of taking proton… Now Proton is not going to die… Why? WHY?! Why let such a stupid and selfish company continue their business?! If only they ended and other cars will be saved and Malaysians will be so much more cheerful…
A quote from Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear UK:
"Don't be fooled by the residents of Malaysia with their choice of cars, we're blessed with more choice here in England…"
Volkswagen and Proton are both business entities. In my opinion, they are just tapping each other's strength to make up for their own weaknesses.. If this partnership (or whatever you call it) is confirmed, I think we will see a strong synergy IF both are sincere about helping each other..
pak lah…great job !! u smells what the rock is cooking…heheh
Volkswagen wants to penetrate the Japanese market, and this is the reason for it’s keen interest in Proton – to use Tanjung Malim as an assembly base for Japan-bound cars. In return, Proton will receive sales aids and technology transfer.
———————
This is purely hypothetical statement that bag more question than answer. VW biz plan is to penetrate market in this part of the region (ASEAN). They don't need to take advantage of or make commercial decision by virtue of Japan-Malaysia Economic Partnership Agreement (JMEPA) that give advantage to export car to Japan. This is another Protonomic freak assumption about their worth and of course to shore up their sagging share with all kind of rosy assumption.
In Japan Toyota is the king that capture approx 40% of market share. If P1 ever go there, then it milo tin skin face the steely jaws of Toyota. If VW go there, they will face the same stiff competition!
heh… Joe Ooi… is dat supposed to be controversial? Pls la… lol…
test.
Woah, wait a minute here… Does that mean Japan CBU cars will be cheaper here now? The PM mentioned abolishment duty… That means we'll be getting cheaper Japanese cars, right?
We won't get any cheap cars here as long as BN, Proton and Rafidah still around. IMO, VW main target is ASEAN market rather than Japan alone.
Hope VW and Proton will form an alliance soon. Then we can see Proton Tuaran, Pasak, Gov, Poloy etc. on the road..
REDDEVIL said,
December 8, 2006 @ 9:25 am
We won’t get any cheap cars here as long as BN, Proton and Rafidah still around.
————————————————————-
Could not agree more with this statement. Hi Malaysian, you better stop dreaming.
Paul, I could be wrong but I don't see any reduction or elimination of Excise Duties. I presume the duties reduction and elimination are only for Import Duties which are currently between 5%-15%.
That brings us to the issues of Thai Govt unhappiness with our auto policy which according to them is not in harmony with AFTA when M'sia Govt Excise Duties are more than 100%.
If this is the case, we could well experience the same fate by 2010 similar to Thai inbound cars.
How come the Japanese haven't reduced their prices yet following JMEPA!! Why Why Why Why Why? Must always ask 5 Whys!
maibatsu_thunder,
The said deal for auto was to be implemented on 2010 or 2015 (can't remember). However if I'm not wrong, I also read its for cars above a certain CC. Meaning the higher range car will be cheaper but not the lower range models that will benefit the general rakyat more. However not sure abt that since I read it quite sometime ago.
btw. The JMEPA is not only abt cars, its includes other economic issues as well. Give some, take some. Japanese are not stupid nor is our Gov (at least in this case only). We can only see if it will be implemented without hiccups later.
not that convincing…VW jus closed a big plant in austria i tink…i tink their tanjung malim interest is cars to be assembled here n xported back to europe (their biggest market by far) n possibly the US market wer it has very litle penetration….their workers costs are very very high…rememebred that in europe specially the manufacturere have to provide health insurance to workers and its very very expensive…thats y VW always have problems with the german workers union…and on going negotiations….
can u imagin how much thy save per 1000 cars manufactured here compare to europe?? really alot…and if the deal is a long term one…thn the deal bcomes very obvious….
thy cant do that with their factory in china since its barely enough to satisfy the chinese markets…
its jus the way i see it i could be wrong…
g need tax so that more unnecessary project can apoint to their crony. may b in 2010 imported duty 0% but start 2 impletement COE. if really implement COE then labuan & langkawi people also have 2 pay more. isn't it sound interesting from g point of view. we'll never have cheap car unless we stay else where.
As long as VW wud be affordable.. GOOD la…. just wait & see….
readjusting the car prices is not easy as said… besides G and cronies playing a role in profit making, there are other issues as well…
for example, a lot of msians have cars as their 2nd largest investment… if the new car prices dropped by half, a lot of ppl cant settle their car loans even if they sell their car… and their personal networth generally will drop drastically…
car price adjustments only benefits those who are going to buy new cars…
in general, the adjustments could be painful to a lot of ppl…
imagine it… considering that a car like vios are cheaper than iswara if sold at their "actual" prices…
Proton: to be with Volkswagen or not to be… to be with Volkswagen or not to be… to be or not to be…
Let's just sit tight and keep waiting I guess.
Isamu said,
December 8, 2006 @ 12:24 am
Volkswagen and Proton are both business entities. In my opinion, they are just tapping each other’s strength to make up for their own weaknesses.. If this partnership (or whatever you call it) is confirmed, I think we will see a strong synergy IF both are sincere about helping each other..
you are wrong VW yes as a business entity but PROTON is not….Proton is the G method to make more revenue for them and their cronies and kill off rakyat.THAT IS A VERY BIDG DIFERENT
motorhead said,
As long as VW wud be affordable.. GOOD la…. just wait & see….
———————
Halo, my dude, jangan harap kat cakap bodoh P1, nanti kita semua ni pun jadi bodoh macam P1. Aku rasa P1 ni dah tak dak modal nak cakap lagi lah, la ni sangkut pasai JMEPA pulak, cakap main main hujung bulan ambik gaji besar saja. Hat kat kita pembayar cukai tu yang susah ni ……..
but by 2010 or 2015… we might hv a new PM & new NAP??…. every thing happen now will not be kira later….
remember VW tranfer technology only, if the 'percent guy' exist, this technology could easily ignored because this is not part of their concern.
so far what do proton get from mitsubishi ,citroen or even lotus, —old 4g engine ,junk AX, coil spring from lotus+comproless torqueless engine, any sound technology transfer???? name 5 of it…
they give tech, then its up to proton to take a full advantage of it. if proton still lame, they wont be able to compete with other imports while the vw will charged on,if proton suffer they might just increasing their ownership.
talking about rebadging, vw, still not gonna be cheap, again vw not gonna give free lunch here..
oic………….oh well………….let see how it goes…………
What happens to MOFAZ if VW is The Chosen 1? MOFAZ is the biggest VW car sales here right? And the idea of them selling VW is actually 1 way to let VW let them manage P1? I have no idea what happens from here. I have heard that MOFAZ was interested in owning p1
Joe Ooi,
Ala geng.. x ada tali, rotan pun bolehlah…. living in police state (our Tun claim la) don't give us so many choices la… Now so many japs, conti mau mari, marilah… i can consider one.. hehehe…
But this one really good what?; "abolishment duty for inbound Japanese CBU and CKD packs by 2010.." but don't too happy yet.. i suspect even cars price goin down, banks sure most happy one, good reason to increase interest rates to cut our throat!!! (better save money 2 buy cars in cash!) & with this news, in this short period auto sellers terukla, bcoz more ppl will wait until 2010… mampus la nak cari sales in this another 4 years…..
Anyway guys, it seems that our effort bashing the gov is working.. keep up the good work.. even our Poklah said he's ready for critism, so give him a chance by keep bashing.. even our own Sultan of Selangor blast corrupted officers recently.. padan muka dia orang!!! so lets join the Sultan & keep bashing…. I can't wait my beloved Sultan turn to be the King!!!
ps: Hail the Sultan, Daulat Tuanku!! & hell to the corrupted leaders!!! Kerja untuk saya, bukan kerja dengan saya….
stop dreaming about cheap car and start saving.
there will be no free lunch for the rakyat.
the poor become poorer….the rich become richer..
this is Malaysia…..
still think p1 need vw more then vw need p1….using p1 as bridge to japs market….don't think so….two country in the world today..their citizen very patriotic when concern what car to buy….japan and korea….vw sell more in japan?…..only in dream….
"there will be no free lunch for the rakyat…"
Sigh. What to do, this is what happen when they ve turned our country like their own company.
ps: Welcome to Malaysia Sdn Bhd. Ada siapa mau join? Lu sapa? (they will ask)
motorhead said,
"ps: Welcome to Malaysia Sdn Bhd. Ada siapa mau join? Lu sapa? (they will ask)"
——————–
Only 2 species can joint this exclusive club – Thick skin crocs and AP King termasuk koonco konco dan gundik gundiknya.
watever izit, i believe having a foreign partner (i prefer it to be VW) will make proton better than it is now…car price is 1 thing…the built quality is another..hopefully when the VW comes in with its 51% in the manufacturing arms, it'll introduce strict QC…then we will get better protons, and hopefully at the same price if not lower…well, in the mean time, have to wait till next year la…merry chritsmas and a happy new year!!!
maxtek – Lots of people work for Proton, and rely on it for their livelihood, it's not just crooks – you've got thousands of people, many of whom are perfectly decent. If you work for a big company, chances are it's run by crooks. Stop wishing for more harm to correct past harms, it never works, it just makes things worse – don't be a flaming moron just because you think your misery is the world's most important. Save it, nobody cares how cheerful you wish you were.
Joe Ooi – According to Paul, this report comes from Forbes. Whom should people trust, Paul & Forbes or you? I mean, honestly, with a nickname like that? Joe Ooi? Seriously? No, I mean, for real. You're kidding, right? Or are you so unfortunate as to have a name so closely similar to our country's National Online Amoeba-Brain? If you call yourself Joe Ooi, you must mean for us to take everything you say as a joke, right? Joe Ooi. Is it satirical? I hope it's satirical. Because it would be even funnier if it's not satirical. Although not for you, obviously.
infinity – Thank you so much for making sense. Keep on doing it, we need people like you.
last nite i sat on my fren newly bought Waja's…. driven 3weeks.. 2600+km
his unit comes in with lots of gooddies… leather here & there… Dual Airbags.. ABS… upgraded interior… improved door handles… (they says) improved power windows… but weak CAMPRO… & the dashboard(below of windscreen) had a sink mark! about 20mm in length, width 10mm
even at night i can see it very clearly… but i just don't understand just why such a hightech(with the MOST advance facility) Tg. Malim plant couldn't detect it in the first place! just use your eye to see lar… you'll found it!
People use their hard earn $59k to buy one but found a sink mark! cry!
if technically, i just wouldn't want to guess what would it be like is the Airbag suddenly pop-up….. i mean just pop-up without any impact at all…. how ? or suddenly the ABS didn't work and locked the wheels…. how?
i think the japs are crazy enough with their local cars… they love their country very much…
holy_cow said,
"Joe Ooi – According to Paul, this report comes from Forbes. Whom should people trust, Paul & Forbes or you? I mean, honestly, with a nickname like that? Joe Ooi? Seriously? No, I mean, for real. You’re kidding, right? Or are you so unfortunate as to have a name so closely similar to our country’s National Online Amoeba-Brain? If you call yourself Joe Ooi, you must mean for us to take everything you say as a joke, right? Joe Ooi. Is it satirical? I hope it’s satirical. Because it would be even funnier if it’s not satirical. Although not for you, obviously."
—————-
"Well said", another typical Protonian in carrying out "personal characteristic assassination" – name calling like "Joe Ooi" by accuse me as joker, satirical, "National Online Amoeba-Brain or the like that might implied in the above statement. Where the evident is (i.e. medical) or other solid ground that make you jump into this conclusion?
Say what you want to say and this is your right of opinion to comment on other statement, but "imbalance" with respect to other personality is tantamount to greatest disrespect and are you earn such "credit/pahala" by accuse other bad and at the same time you think that you are the saint righteous one that will go to haven for making such "final holy judgment"?
OK, now you said Paul quote the news from Forbes, and indeed that is the true fact about sources of the news. But as an individual, I have my right of opinion and have the benefit of doubt as to the content of the news by Forbes. With lay man logical judgment, I put up "second opinion" that VW intention of taking over P1 is part of their biz plan to penetrate the auto market in this part of region (ASEAN). Toyota control approx 40% of their local market (Japan), does P1 or VW brand be able to penetrate significantly the Japanese market by merely utilize Tg Malim plant to export car (either P1 or VW brand) to the Japan under JMEPA arrangement? In my opinion it is "myth" rather than "might" as Proton City vs. Toyota City – who is world class? Come on face the fact, the P1 soft crab skin Milo tin on the wheel with "3R – Risky Ride on the Road", if export to Japan will face the steely jaws of the Toyota giant. Even P1 former partner, Mitsubishi is junior player and struggling at their local Japanese market! Look at Gen-2 quality which is the 1st model come out from Tg Malim new spanking factory! I don't need to list down the complaints but you can ask any Gen-2 owner for answer!
holy_cow – so the lone super power Uncle Sam in this world, their president, George Bush with our former master colonial, UK's PM Tony Blair since prior and after invasion of Iraq in March 2003 and until today through many reputable news sources like Daily Telegraph, Mirror, The Times, BBC, NYT, CNN, CNBC, ABC, etc, etc, keep on telling the whole world that they go to war with and invading Iraq is due to the threat of "Weapon of Mass Destruction" (WMD)! After more than 3 year in Iraq with hundred of thousand troops, there is still no sign of discover WMD. But what the world discovered is another WMD -"War of Mass Deception"! So, you are holy cow, can you trust them by virtue of they are "reputable" news sources.
Remembered about true fact in news are depend on how accurate journalist/reporter write it (but always "twist and turn") and how true is the party create/provide the news or sources (do you think politician all the time tell the truth? But the sad truth is always the opposite). So individual discretion is required on the above issue! In my case, I have the benefit of doubt on the content of the news that Paul quote from Forbes. I am just put up my “second opinion†by put up certain logical argument! You have the rights and can disagree with my opinion, but to carry out name calling by “execute personal characteristic assassination†on “Joe Ooi†is very much uncalled for! Be sensible and careful with your “holy judgmentâ€! For me, in my opinion your statement is lack of justification to be reasonably to describe on me, but it is more reflected on your characteristic since the "burden of proof" is on you to justify what you say!
End of the day, PROTON wouldn't die, that's for sure. But the people who exploit the the situation with their status in PROTON will be gone forever with VW takeover.
CAUSE THEY ARE NOT MAKING THE DECISION ANYMORE. That is most importantly for the survival of PROTON.
We may get cheaper cars…….or so call it more competitive price cars……maybe a better built cars….no more CAMPRO for sure…..VW also…..GTI perhaps at a more cheaper rate……Japanese cars too will fall 8% as speculate by next year or blah…….No one knows for sure……
But with their involment here……maybe PROTON cars will be a lot better than so goes with the company.
With VW takeover…..I think a lot of people are going to be out of work especially the top and mid level management, and I think they should go cause they the useless people in the company.
THAT"S FOR SURE.
boy, you guys are a disgrunted lot, maybe all of u need to lite up a joint…..
Joe Ooi – I never said you can't have a second opinion. I just said I don't believe it.
I love how you bring in the WMD thing, which perfectly explains why Forbes would want to make up reports about Proton. Obviously, America is going to invade Tanjung Malim. It's all so clear to me now.
holy_cow said,
maxtek – Lots of people work for Proton, and rely on it for their livelihood, it’s not just crooks – you’ve got thousands of people, many of whom are perfectly decent. If you work for a big company, chances are it’s run by crooks. Stop wishing for more harm to correct past harms, it never works, it just makes things worse – don’t be a flaming moron just because you think your misery is the world’s most important. Save it, nobody cares how cheerful you wish you were.
————–
Source from Proton Holdings: –
http://www.proton.com/about_proton/facts_figures/…
1. Proton is also one of Malaysia's largest employers with a high intellectual workforce; it directly employs 9,500 such employees worldwide."
2. Proton had also contributed to government revenue, in both direct and indirect taxes from 1995 to 2002, a total of RM13.14 billion (excise duty accounted for 54%, import duty 8%, corporate tax 5%, and sales tax 33%).
4. Proton sold 152,845 cars for all models in 2005. For 2006, the sales figure is expected to be less!
COMMENTS: –
1. Proton have 9,500 employee worldwide with output of approx 150 K cars per annum. However, Toyota have more than 318,000 employees worldwide and projected to produce more than 9.8 millions vehicle under Toyota, Hino, Lexus and Daihatsu brands by 2008.
2. Proton claimed on its "inderect taxes" (excise duty, import duty and slaes tax) is totally "cow_shit" as this money is paid directly by the car buyers under crappy NAP. It is suk from consumer pocket and how come P1 claimed it as their "indirect taxes"? If consider just coprorate tax, that mean P1 contribute corporate tax = (5% x 13.14 billion)/8 = average RM 82.125 million per year for 8 years from 1995 to 2002. This sum is "pea nut" compare to the tax under ED/ID/ST fork out by consumers!
If Tg. Malim Proton plant (model after Toyota City) operated on full design capacity and as efficient as Toyota City by producing 1 million vehicle, by use Toyota workforce (318,00): (9.8 miilion vehicle). Then Tg Malim plant alone should be employ around 30,000 workers. However, Proton can't sales in significant number (less than 20K cars per ear) for export market. The Tg Malim plant suppose to make Proton to be competitve and world class player in open market by achieve economic of scales and produce quality car.
However, look at current P1 sad state, foreign take over only make the full potential of Tg. Malim plant probable. What offroader manix said: –
"With VW takeover…..I think a lot of people are going to be out of work especially the top and mid level management, and I think they should go cause they the useless people in the company. THATâ€S FOR SURE."
is a truth fact. Only those incompetent employees have to "bungkus" togehter with politically connected suppliers and vendors that make P1 QC more difficult if not the worst. Only crocs, AP King, lazy employees or the like that make what P1 today have to go if VW or other foreigner take over.
For Protonomic, to protect current 9,500 workers for producing around 150,000 lousy quality cars at the NAP tax that suck the poor local consumers RM is more important than free market opportunity and potential benefits for foreign tie up to create more than 30,000 jobs if Tg Malim plant produce 1 million car and export to oversea to earn foreign currency to enrich Bolehland.
holy_cow, where is your "cow sense". Can you smell what I am talking?
holy_cow forget it…joe ooi has a litle bit of history atacking ppl….! ur nt the first!
"cow_shit" hurh hurh hurh, that's a funny one, hyuk hyuk OMG you so clever.
The rest of the comment was boring though. And a bit odd…I mean, no matter how bad your breath is I can't smell it when you're talking, because we're communicating through this thing called the Internet, which has no smell technology yet. But I recommend Oral-B. Oh, and also that comment doesn't address my points, and has nothing to do with your earlier argument. But I think that's because you never knew what your argument was.
All the more reason not to trust you, really. I'm still with Forbes & Paul on this one.
e-nabill – So far, it's been quite fun actually. :-)
voicing opinion is an art…bt having a chicken fight is NOT !
But it's fun though.
i feel fun,hhehee coz long time no c ppl fighting in the thread with someone use long statement to fight each other, its fun hehehe…
holy_cow said,
“cow_shit†hurh hurh hurh, that’s a funny one, hyuk hyuk OMG you so clever."
"All the more reason not to trust you, really. I’m still with Forbes & Paul on this one."
————–
So, don't think all info including from those big league player in corporate world give all time accurate info aka matter on Excise Duty, Import Duty and Sales Tax as "indirect tax" of P1 which in actual fact, these taxes were paid by the consumers – damn real "cow_shit" or "cow_dung" rubbish yet misrepresentation in P1 website.
Whether you trust me or not, whether you agree or disagree with me, that is part and parcel of bloggers community forum. But definitely I strongly disagree with your attempt of "personal characteristic assassination" comments apart from Protonomics freak view!
Lastly, your comment is at least "inconsistent" if not "self-contradictory" – do as to your whim and fancy by one moment you disagree on certain comments yet you find there is fun element with it!
—————————————————
e-nabilll said,
"holy_cow forget it…joe ooi has a litle bit of history atacking ppl….! ur nt the first!"
————-
Attacking people! Too general, be specific "lampooning Protonian" …….. holy_cow is not the first, and of course not the last ………!
never argue with an idiot. He will lower you to his level and beat you with his experience….
Idiot? He, he, he, ……….. who is that ah ……… I? Me? You? He? She? Other? Experience? What experience?
I don't see how my arguments are contradictory or inconsistent just because I enjoy watching you being silly. This discussion started out having nothing to do with how the consumers are the ones paying taxes and everything to do with the fact that the JMEPA has raised Proton's value. Instead of refuting that point you claim (with no evidence) that Proton made it up and then went on to an unnecessary, dull rant about how the whole excise duty + taxes system sucks and drains the people in order to support the corrupt few (which is true, but irrelevant to this issue). Essentially you're talking rubbish, and hey, sue me if you want, but I find people who talk rubbish to be quite funny.
And I never said anything about you as a person, there were no personal character attacks so far, I just attacked your nickname. So the real person whose character I'm attacking is a certain famous blogger whose name you seem to have borrowed in coming up with your own nickname. HE is an idiot, one of the biggest in the world, this is true, and if you believe that he's not – only then are you yourself an idiot too. Yes, THAT was a personal character attack. But a conditional one.
By the way, what's a Protonian? I myself have been one of the strongest critics of the local car industry, so much so that I couldn't bring myself to buy a local car for my first car, and was lucky enough to be able to buy a (much better) 23 year-old conti car instead. But even though I will always criticise the local car industry, I do believe it should be defended from the blind, unthinking attacks of morons, because these people always make situations worse, they attack indiscriminately and without reason. They only care about complaining and about themselves, not about trying to find the best solution for everyone concerned. Morons are the cause of the national car industry's failures, and the solution, whatever it is, definitely isn't more morons.
one idiot n the whole forum gets rotten…so frustrating…
Proton, just please die ok? Do you see any cars like proton without ABS and Airbag as standard equipment? My gosh, some models doen't even have ABS and Airbag. ABS and Airbag is like a standard in modern cars. I mean not luxury but standard in luxury cars. Oops, wait a minute, I forgot, Proton is selling ancient cars and not modern ones. Please just die ok and don't sell anymore of your dangerous models.
http://www.proton.com/about_proton/facts_figures/…
Is this some kind of sick joke or April Fool Joke or what?
It wrote there, Malaysia's biggest R&D, so what, that's because it's a big car company from monopoly, of couse the R&D is big. If the R&D is so good, how come the power window got problem. The most basic things like Airbags and ABS don't have. To earn money, you need customers to buy your car. No point to boast R&D if your quality like shit and can't sell. Customers not stupid nowadays. If they spend so much money on R&D why sell so little and also ancient cars. If I were them, I'd R&D hybrid and electric cars and be the pioneer in alternative fuel cars where other manufacturer is still rather new. I'd spend 100% of my R&D there.
http://www.proton.com/about_proton/facts_figures/…
This is the sickest joke of all,
" Proton is also in a class apart, in that Malaysia is one of 11 countries with full-scale automotive capability worldwide, having gained a global reputation with Lotus which supplies technology, research and development to 10 car manufacturers."
Yeah right when power windows not working, bumper drop to the road. Some world class quality alright!! Yeah that's world class I guess.
" Only 11 countries out of the 146 World Trade Organisation members can design and manufacture a vehicle from the ground up with the latest technology, meeting world standards. In 2002, Malaysia became the 11th country."
Big deal, some korean cars starter later than proton but selling millions worldwide whereas malaysia struggling to even export 60-80K. If the car is damn good why can't sell overseas.
"
Proton is also one of Malaysia's largest employers with a high intellectual workforce; it directly employs 9,500 such employees worldwide."
If the employees is damn good they won't make a high percentage of defective cars. In manufacturing, all car makers have a percentage of defective, but no where as close to proton.
" Proton, one of the four national carmakers in the country, currently sells to 15 active overseas markets. This year, it is exploring the export potential in countries like Iran, Syria, China and Indonesia."
Selling few thousands of models per country is some big deal? Like big deal?
In short, Action speaks louder than words.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fNBpJOaE__A
Some kind of world class cars ehh?
http://www.proton-edar.com.my/showroom/saga/saga_…
Extreme car for extreme enjoyment? How extreme can this old model be? Even my junk old satria more extreme than this. More extreme than what? Still using carburettor. No fuel injection, no airbag,abs,ebd. Not leather seat. not even 100hp. What extreme enjoyment and extreme car. You think people small kid is it? If the car lousy is not so bad yet. But don't put story that small kid also won't believe. It will just make people angry and insult you. Proton sure good in boasting like the saying goes, empty vessel makes the most noise. Action speaks louder than words. It is no where near extreme.
http://www.carsurvey.org/viewcomments_review_9399…
So far got 4 comments and all 4 comments also bad. Some kind of good quality cars proton make. So much for the good quality of the satria neo.
after so long.. now only i know www.proton.com exists on this earth…. is this another failure for a malaysian who has been surfing the net for over 8 years and not knowing the national car maker website address?
my failure i think.. maybe…ding…
Until now, it still iritates me that Proton is still selling the Saga and Wira. This is an insult to Malaysians!
If Proton goes to hell, and open market exists, what car can i buy with my mere budget of RM45K?? A Golf 1.6 can or not? :)
alamak… proton saga is about as old as my age.. shame shame…
no la…
malaysia boleh! think it this way
proton saga is so popular even after 20 years. Proton makes GREAT car! ppl dun care its old model and soooo SUPPORTIVE!!
fookeatmin1989 said,
"never argue with an idiot. He will lower you to his level and beat you with his experience…. "
———————–
Since you didn't mentioned who is an idiot. Then I do a guessing game! I predict the most suitable candidate is not you or me, but P1 really idiot lower all poor consumer to his level until force them to buy this low quality high price car.
——————————————-
e-nabilll said,
"one idiot n the whole forum gets rotten…so frustrating…"
———-
Still need another guessing game! U or Me, no, same assumption.
Both of you if disagree with me, at your own discretion don't mind to tell me ah who is that person. If you mentioned me also OK, I need the "word come out from the horse mouth" before proceed to next level of comment.
He, he, he,
But read at the comments by other as well, what Forbes say is just try to make logical argument by try to relate the increase in worth of Tg Malim spanking plant to JMEPA which clearly implied if the foreign partner is VW, it will allow optimum utilize of this plant to produce car and export to Japan! This is clearly very "remote" to say the least and "mission impossible" to say the most! Again Japan has Toyota city and Japanese very proud of their country product. But they should behave this way and Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc deserved such respect from their country men as they are truely create wealth, do not waste tax payer money and the products quality is highest with the most competitive price.
nizam80 said,
"If Proton goes to hell, and open market exists, what car can i buy with my mere budget of RM45K?? A Golf 1.6 can or not?'
————
Dude, plenty of choices with this kind of price. In China, Chery QQ start at RM 9K plus, means with RM 45K, you can buy 5 Chery QQ in China. Check at Langkawi prices, this budget may enable you to buy Waja (A) RM 38K (M) RM 36K. Other models in this price range might included City, Vios, Yaris, Picanto, Jazz, Accent, Chery A 160, etc. If RM 60K, your choice extended to Civic, Elantra, Corolla Altis, Sentra, etc.
volvolover, bravo to you, when link to almost any section of P1 website, we can found out a lot of rubbish claimed of so call "achievement and astonishing facts"! Tak tau malu, taruh taruh apa saja sampah yang mereka suka. Rakyat Bodoh, Malaysia Bodoh jika boleh dipercayai! Sekarang siapa yang "funny"?
holy_cow said,
"I don’t see how my arguments are contradictory or inconsistent just because I enjoy watching you being silly…………….
……………… there were no personal character attacks so far, I just attacked your nickname. So the real person whose character I’m attacking is a certain famous blogger whose name you seem to have borrowed in coming up with your own nickname. HE is an idiot, one of the biggest in the world, this is true, and if you believe that he’s not – only then are you yourself an idiot too. Yes, THAT was a personal character attack. But a conditional one.
——————–
Now let see and analyze your comment: –
1. You try to argue that your comment is not inconsistent or contradictory …….
2. ……. So the real person whose character I’m attacking is a certain famous blogger whose name you seem to have borrowed in ……..
– You used the "FAMOUS" wording.
3. HE is an idiot, one of the biggest in the world, this is true, and if you believe that he’s not – only then are you yourself an idiot too.
– You used the "IDIOT" wording.
Now we elaborate what is FAMOUS, IDIOT and TRUE. Log on to Oxford ("Ox-Fart") Dictionary:
http://www.oup.com/elt/catalogue/teachersites/oal…
1. Famous means Fame (well known for doing something good)
fam•ous /fems/ adj. ~ (for sth)| ~ (as sth) known about by many people: a famous artist / hotel the most famous lake in Italy He became internationally famous for his novels. One day, I’ll be rich and famous. She was more famous as a writer than as a singer. So this is the famous dress! (= the one we have heard a lot about but have not seen).—see also fame, infamous, notorious, world-famous
2. Notorious means moron ("well known" for doing something bad)
no•tori•ous /ntris; NAmE no/ adj. ~ (for sth / for doing sth)| ~ (as sth) well known for being bad: a notorious criminal The country is notorious for its appalling prison conditions. The bar has become notorious as a meeting-place for drug dealers.
3. Idiot = stupid
idiot /dit/ noun
a) (informal) a very stupid person fool: When I lost my passport, I felt such an idiot. Not that switch, you idiot!
b) (old-fashioned, offensive) a person with very low intelligence who cannot think or behave normally
———-
4. True = Correct
true /tru/ adj., adv., noun(WORD FAMILY: true adj. untrue | truth noun untruth | truthful adj. untruthful | truly adv. | truism noun )
adj. (truer, tru•est)
CORRECT
1 connected with facts rather than things that have been invented or guessed:
———-
By understand the basic meaning of FAMOUS, NOTORIOUS, IDIOT and TRUE and the way you use it in your sentence. I can "Truthfully" jump into the following conclusion about you.
Conclusion – You are inconsistent or contradictory simply because famous person is not baddy and not stupid (idiot) as well! What you said is not true, but NOTORIOUSLY liar/deception. Even notorious person also not stupid!
Hope you understand the different between "Famous" and "Notorious", the former is well known for the right reason(s) and the later for the wrong reason(s)!
Good night to you! Sorry for out of topic but just post it here, at least to correct your "idiot mistakes"!
just wait and see la, at this moment we can see a transition of how slowly proton to be let go without giving some instant impact interm of employment and facility,
now tanjung malim next shah alam, at least pekerja stay to work new employer (other car assemblying business),
dont want to be shock like uk rover simply sold and go away ,employers burst into anger, here they soften the impact a bit, this is since people involve with proton quite large number of 'vote'. and for the sake of spirit (the name of proton) they release few cheap model from vw to roll in this country just to keep the name alive, since vw made in here, people opt to made in thailand, and….if vw find its hard way here and in japan, vw will pack up their things and sail back to germany and people to be blame is vw…that moment proton to be written in darjah 5 history book.
(sorry aaa it just a tale if proton and percent guy still at the same level as now)
holy_cow,
I already explains my position (which is kinda unnecessary) pertaining to “Famousâ€, “Notoriousâ€, “Idiot†and “True†quite concisely (agree or disagree with me?… errrr not for me to force down your throat but for you to make an objective assessment). Holy_cow, you can put up your though and right of opinion to share. After all you are the one who initiate the discourse about “famousâ€, “idiotâ€, “jokerâ€, satirical, “National Online Amoeba-Brain†or the like that might express, implied and/or constitute element(s) of “character assassination†in your statements!
Please don’t give reply with distastful and funny remarks which are judgmental, preconceived “holy†opinion and kind lame “blame-shifting-game†by accuse other as idiot as a way to escape from the web entanglement.
If you were in the intelligent group mailing list, you can and must always consistent, explain and justify your statement, and you are welcome to put down your thought. I don't want to be a distraction in here by keeping make an explanation on your “ox-fart†trivial matter including but not limited to the above-mentioned and meaning of certain word(s) by refer to Oxford Dictionary. And there are third party comments “from the horse’s mouth†follow suit that view (but not specifically mentioned my name) my posting as “idiotâ€!
Don’t let yourself down to the lowest level in your posting, give your though with justification. Who knows maybe in future; me or other over here will be strongly agree with your though. If not, I can’t help but to agree and make remark that you are a pest!
There is a way to reduce this personal attacks, unrelated-to-topics-discussions. Stop the name calling that make the other side of the enemy angry!! eg: freak protonians, national-amoeba-whatever, joker,etc….Use good PR, marketing skills to deliver your messeg without annoying your audiens….Unless, you are enjoying this fight….
Joe Ooi,
What makes you believe that VW's business plan is really to capture the SEA market?
Looks like VW already have troubles of it's own.
Recall 300,000 cars is no joke………$$$ down…:)
Joe Ooi
that was simply the most bizarrely incorrect use of language and logic i have ever seen.
famous is a word used to describe a noun that is wellknown. it does not categorically mean that it is for a good or bad thing. in that way, notoriety is a subset of the term famous and has nothing to do with the term moron.
a notorious person is not by default a moron. he can be notorious for doing something immoral or unlawful, but he would probably have to be successful at it to be notorious.
for all your lamenting about holy_cow's name calling, you yourself have tried to make fun of the 'holy' and 'cow' bits of his name on more than one occasion.
the difference between the two of you is that he's actually funny and you, as shown by your tasteless and useless use (hoho, oxymoron alert!) of the Oxford dictionary, are an idiot as described by any number of sources so far on this posting.
volvolover said,
December 9, 2006 @ 10:01 pm
It wrote there, Malaysia’s biggest R&D, so what, that’s because it’s a big car company from monopoly, of couse the R&D is big. If the R&D is so good, how come the power window got problem. The most basic things like Airbags and ABS don’t have. To earn money, you need customers to buy your car. No point to boast R&D if your quality like shit and can’t sell. Customers not stupid nowadays. If they spend so much money on R&D why sell so little and also ancient cars. If I were them, I’d R&D hybrid and electric cars and be the pioneer in alternative fuel cars where other manufacturer is still rather new. I’d spend 100% of my R&D there.
=======================
Bro..power window is not RND..its more to manufacturing failure/ supplier defect..
yeah malaysian automotive company (naza,inokom and perodua) can do like other car assembler in Thailand and indon…they can assemble and make profit..but for worker..they just an assembler (screw /unscrew) no knowledge gained..
"RnD is to develope high skill worker"
Joe Ooi: Thanks for your support for the criticism of proton.
peyno: What I mean is why boast so much on the R&D when they can't even have good quality on simple things such as their power windows.
nizam80 said,
December 9, 2006 @ 11:02 pm
If Proton goes to hell, and open market exists, what car can i buy with my mere budget of RM45K?? A Golf 1.6 can or not? :)
here is a lists post by some 1 from this blog long ago. go check it out ur self.
http://www.customs.gov.my/html/cbu2006warta.htm
peyno: What I mean is why they want to say they are so good in t their R&D and when such a simple thing as a power window also they can't make one with a low defective rate. I know because nearly all proton owners have this problem.
http://www.customs.gov.my/html/cbu2006warta.htm
I think I'll migrate
peYno said,
December 11, 2006 @ 5:08
=======================
Bro..power window is not RND..its more to manufacturing failure/ supplier defect..
yeah malaysian automotive company (naza,inokom and perodua) can do like other car assembler in Thailand and indon…they can assemble and make profit..but for worker..they just an assembler (screw /unscrew) no knowledge gained..
“RnD is to develope high skill workerâ€
————————————————-
just my experience la peyno,
i did fix the power window my self, motor, steel railing and steel cable are strong its just a piece of plastic holding a small pully broken,
my opinion is that can that the small little plastic should be supported by batter steel bracket or simply made of steel,
it actuall a small piece of a problem, cant proton ractify that problem
cant proton ammend the design a bit ,cant proton ask the vendor to change that piece, CANT proton rejecet thing that failed OVER AND OVER AGAIN!
ractifying the problem and solve the problem for batter use is "R&D' isnt it??
so R&D whatttt?
not to say yet to make something bombastic……
not yet to solve the rust of 3 4 years old iswara,at its panel support point
not yet to solve cheap plastic peeling off
not yet to solve side door pocket fall off of 1.3 model
miss allingn satria rear hatch door,
auxilary hole in the mudguard that letting dirts on the battery tray and near powersteering resevoir,(leaving the question ..where the sand come from..)
waja one side rear tyre wear
after all what make the car all parties involves , so any thing wrong R&D responsible for all these parties to ractify an develop improvements on,
or what they do?
correcet me if im wrong…..
It's like watching Derek Zoolander. Watch it and you'll know what I mean
Since they play dirty, I am not changing my 10 years old satria. I am not going to let them earn any more of my money unneccessary. I don't buy new cars see how they can tax.
Isamu said,
"Joe Ooi
What makes you believe that VW’s business plan is really to capture the SEA market?"
———-
That is all the time what we read from the news about VW biz plan to penetrate the auto market in this part of region. Even any takover of P1 by VW if materialize, shall be synergize with this biz plan. That is why any minority share in P1 definitely mean there is no management control, therefore there is no effective way to decide and steer the future direction of P1 the way they see it fit, especially fit into their biz plan – assemble VW car by utilizing Tg. Malim plant.
But looking at the way P1 behave, and if this "on-off-on-off" partnership nego still drag on, now at least beyond Feb 2007. There is no surprise if VW "give up and fed up" with this nego due to P1's ego" and decided to set-up plant perhaps at Thailand or Indonesia to fulfill it biz plan. Time is money and opportunity once go never comeback. See how Indon overtake us in FDI. I think VW is "generous and patient" enough to nego with P1.
Look at Geely, previously plan to set-up assembly plant in Malaysia. But our G "intelligent officer" imposed conditions of not allowing them to assemble car below 1.6L and have to export 80% of the cars is for sure way to fend off potential competition to P1. This kind of "rubbish" conditions just drive off FDI and Indonesia have to thank our G "intelligent officer" as Geely eventually decided to set up their assembly plant there! If VW take a same route like Geely, that is likely the end of P1 to find suitable foreign tie up at least current opportunity available to P1!
Conclusion is p1 sux.. & still sux… go to hell to the workers & anyone connect to it & got to hell oso those who supports p1…bcoz why we shud keep paying tax to let them earn living? millions of us paying the damn taxes, why let ppl die on the road just bcoz we cant afford to buy better cars? & let the motorist die bcoz cant buy a car??..or at least why dont p1 install airbags & ABS in all their craps? (with all stupid protection??) How many more have to die??? I CURSE u p1 & NAP & corrupt leaders in the name who has died bcoz lack of safety features in their cars!!!!
Wonder lah..
where are all potong 'user id' like lembu and friends?
Touch n' Go only kah? one day appear hantam sana-sini and don't come back.
Since sunday cuti and monday as usual got lots of meeting and follow up of all kerja2 yang tak buat last week.. so.. tak login la..
Since you've started the name calling and all.. continue lah fight …
cannot defend the paymaster with hard facts then start hantaming 'real people' user id like moron and dare say 'real people' are moron.
tanda-tanda of employed or 'so blind' free-of-charge spin doctors.
joe oii get a life
soporific said,
"Joe Ooi
that was simply the most bizarrely incorrect use of language and logic i have ever seen.
————————
No thank to "good English teacher". Are you want to start another round of bout? There is no further explananation of what you write and that is your right of opinion!
But to let you learn new meaning/equation: –
soporific = Dr. spin
You are better than Oxford Dictionary by Ox-fart here and there by release obnoxious gas…………..
"he can be notorious for doing something immoral or unlawful, but he would probably have to be successful at it to be notorious."
The above statement by you clearly shown you have good understanding and by spining the use of English word – but just let you know, the above statement by you has another equivalent: –
=Machiavellian Approach
Log on the following perhaps let you understand what you exactly said: –
http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince00.htm
Or I summarize it as below that shown your selfish and dangerous traits that may without due consideration to the welfare and safety of the society at large: –
The Prince (1513) is the proponent of this modern political philosophy offered a perspective of the successful political power pursuit through its own set of “modus operandiâ€; including shrewd act of violence and trickery that would always mutually exclusive with the norm of morality or religious values in private life.
So, you can do whatever it take to be successful including thru notorious way?
Furhter you mentioned "…….. as shown by your tasteless and useless use (hoho, oxymoron alert!) of the Oxford dictionary, are an idiot as described by any number of sources so far on this posting."
Ho, ho, you even "Ox-farting" the Oxford Dictionary?????????????????
peYno said,
“RnD is to develope high skill workerâ€
———————
R & D is where innovation begins. Modern R & D concept is not originated but at least start form Renaisssance Period (1400 – 1600) of the European history. Can I say Da Vinci Code is part of it? Definitely you will agree with me if you really study and understand Renaissance history.
But to sum up what is R & D means. It is simply covered innovation that lead to continuos improvement, new finding, or better than existing inventions. R & D is not a centre to develop high skill worker, BUT it need intelligent and highly skill workers to be employed in R & D centre so as new product with better improvement and meet current or future expectation in the market – invention that ahead of competitor or it time.
Do P1 products ahead of its time or competitors? The clear answer is BIG NO, even Iswara is a stone age model. So P1's R & D is practically on name only, but never translate into its product(s).
volvolover said,
Since they play dirty, I am not changing my 10 years old satria. I am not going to let them earn any more of my money unneccessary. I don’t buy new cars see how they can tax.
————–
BIG YES to you dude – suppor you one more time, this is the right attitude to take preventive action to avoid P1/NAP futher exploiting our hard earn pocket money to enrich themselve. Only one action louder than ranting:-
1. STOP THE BUYING – STOP THE SUCKING.
Take back our right of "FREE TO CHOOSE" by stop the buying, which in turn force P1/NAP "eat the dust" and leadto free market (2010 and beyond)! Kick out the "FORCE TO CHOOSE" under P1/NAP protective but counter productive measure that design to suck RM to the last ringgit that make the consumer poorer but never earn any foreign currency in the true sense to enrich Bolehland. Even current export need to be subsidize by RM and dump into oversea for foreigner to enjoy better quality and yet relatively lower price (take into CBU unit including logistic cost).
My Waja also using kereta potong Honda Accord absorber that still perform well (believed to be more than 5 year) compare to "original" that last for around a year only. I make sure they don't make "idiot profit" from me anymore! My power window kong, let it be. open door when pay toll but don't want to repair so that they can't suck further my money!
2.
soporific said,
" ……..are an idiot as described by any number of sources so far on this posting.â€
————–
Ho, ho, ho, ………… merry Christmas, some one top here quote from un-substantiated sources are more "reliable" than credible Oxford Dictionary – must be Dr. spin that is very good in Ox-farting in Paul Tan Blog.
Aiya, so many posting out of topic, sorry lah Paul Tan …….. "pai seh lah"
Yes to you Joe Ooi, I agree 100%, but instead of buying new models, I refurbish my old junk with new dashboard, new leather seat. I rather spend 10-20K to make it look brand new. Still cheaper than getting a new car. Even brand new don't have leather seat. Let the leather seat and refurbish company earn my money. Joe Ooi: One thing I don't agree with you though, if your power window spoil, fix it lar or get another non proton power window that can really last. If shock absorber spoil, buy non proton, if spare part non proton is compatible, then get it. Don't deny yourself from a working power window. If I have to buy a foreign car that is expensive, I will buy it and my next car will be in the next 20 years and I make the car work the maximum for the money I paid. My policy when buy a car, once bought it must be kept for 15 years minimum up to 20 years. Once it reaches that age, I won't sell but sent to scrap yard. I cannot sell a 20 years old proton. I have this principle, if it's not safe for me to use, I cannot sell it. I rather lose and send to scrap yard and make sure they scrap it.Not curi curi sell it after sent to scrap yard. I have this principal, if the car too junk after 20 years, I will send the car to recycle. I will only sell if i think it still can be used. But once I buy a car, it will be with me for a very very long time.
Of course special edition car or collectible cars, I will keep it more than 20 years or maybe until I die. LoL :p Depends lar :-)
Aiya, asked before but can't find "non-Proton" power window lah! Anyway let it be, my next car is used car! Anyway thank for your opinion about working power window.
Now auto market bad, even Camry 3 year old also around RM 80 – 90K, very afforable to me! Consider seriously to buy one and forget about all nitty-gritty problems plagueing my Waja. I just want to get over all this non-sense and get on with my life as far as I am as a car user is concerned. New Camry (but not Merc or Beemer) also can afford to buy but just don't want to pay the hefty tax under crappy NAP!
Heard of the phrase, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on you. Despite the expensive cars in Malaysia, some people change cars every 5 years and blame car expensive. Sometimes not neccessary need to get proton. Buy a safe modern car and then keep for 20 years. My proton satria costs me RM60,000 in 1996. RM60,000 back then is probably RM100,000 or more in todays money. I want to get rid of the car by about 20 years old. RM60,000/20 years is 3k per year. If I start selling and buying. I lose way more money. Even if I buy a RM300k car if I can afford, I make sure I keep at least 20 years or more to get back my money worth. For what let the government earn your hard earned money.
I think Joe Ooi is quite a balance person. I do think he is quite open which maybe some Malaysians not used to. I think sometimes he posts so long until I am bored to read. Joe Ooi: Sometimes can write shorter or in few posts, easier to read. But
Joe Ooi's review is sincere and he speaks the fact. I read a couple of his posts, does makes sense though I don't read all of them cause sometimes it's too long!! Joe Ooi: No offense ok? I think Paul Tan and Joe Ooi gives a balance view. Paul Tan is more on the passive side when reviewing and Joe Ooi is more aggressive.
We are all humans and we do things differently. So I think it's not fair to flame Joe
Ooi for being an outspoken critic of proton. When there is criticism only than can there be improvement.
Good Luck to you Joe Ooi on your new car. Good for you for getting a new car cause Proton is such a dangerous car. No ABS and Airbag. Proton Satria Neo claims the car is solid. Just say that's true, but if you get in an accident, knocking on the steering wheel a fast speed would also kill you. So no difference. They could have backed their claim by testing it at euroncap but why didn't they? Don't tell me they can't afford it when they are going to sell thousands of a single model if not more?
Ho, ho, ho, ho, hoh – finally the dust settled down. Can enjoy fresh air and very peaceful now. Even can meditate overhere.
ho, ho, ho, ho, ……. merry Christmas!
the oxford is quite reliable. your use of it, Joe Ooi, is what is dodgy.
where in the definition of notorious, does it say anything about being moronic? which part of unlawful or immoral did you read as not being 'bad'?
how about looking up the oxford for the definitions of bad and seeing if it means moron?
obviously, when you surmised that i made a summary conclusion without backing up what i said, you didn't read my comment properly.
but that's to be expected from someone on his own, declared that 'the dust settled down'.
how come you didn't use oxford to establish the fact that the dust has settled down?
how about a better use of the oxford dictionary for you? to improve your english.
merry christmas to you too.
Paul, this thread has far outlived it's usefulness.
And, it could be argued, so have a few of the posters.
MS
Ho, ho, ho, ho, ………….. see you again MS,
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooD!
—————–
soporific said,
"the oxford is quite reliable. your use of it, Joe Ooi, is what is dodgy."
——
At least now you have slightly not so low level of judgement. Good luck to see you has some improvement but can't agree with your Dr. spin argument!
Wah, forgot to mentioned that you kick up the dust again but I still feel peaceful since the "biggest pest" in this thread being eliminated! However, there is another one come in! Good Good! Of course too late to "canibalize" ……………….. maybe have to call 999 for assistant!
soporific said,
"where in the definition of notorious, does it say anything about being moronic? which part of unlawful or immoral did you read as not being ‘bad’?"
Log on:
http://www.oup.com/elt/catalogue/teachersites/oal…
1. no•tori•ous /ntris; NAmE no/ adj. ~ (for sth / for doing sth)| ~ (as sth) well known for being bad: a notorious criminal The country is notorious for its appalling prison conditions. The bar has become notorious as a meeting-place for drug dealers.
2. moron /mrn; NAmE rn/ noun (informal) an offensive way of referring to sb that you think is very stupid: They’re a bunch of morons. You moron—now look what you’ve done!
3.bad /bd/ adj., noun, adv.
adj. (worse /ws; NAmE wrs/ worst /wst; NAmE wrst/)
UNPLEASANT
1 unpleasant; full of problems: bad news / weather / dreams / habits I’m having a really bad day. It was the worst experience of her life. Smoking gives you bad breath. Things are bad enough without our own guns shelling us.
POOR QUALITY
2 of poor quality; below an acceptable standard: bad conditions / driving a bad copy / diet I thought it was a very bad article. This isn’t as bad as I thought. That’s not a bad idea.
NOT GOOD AT STH
3 ~ at sth / at doing sth (of a person) not able to do sth well or in an acceptable way poor: a bad teacher You’re a bad liar! He’s a bad loser (= he complains when he loses a game). She is so bad at keeping secrets.
notorious = (as sth) well known for being bad
moron = an offensive way of referring to sb that you think is very stupid
bad = not able to do sth well or in an acceptable way poor
So, the Oxford dictionary meaning for the above neither show I am wrong 100% nor correct 100%, depend on how you use the above word.
But your writing on me is NOT GOOD AT STH = You’re a bad liar!
————
soporific said,
"how come you didn’t use oxford to establish the fact that the dust has settled down?"
This one does not required Oxford. Since you are the one Ox-fart here and Ox-fart there, it is "noxious methane GAS", not dust. If you can't differentiate between gas and dust, go and refer to Oxford to find out for your self.
OK, we have a lot of differences, but still like to say merry Christmas and Happy New Year 2007 to you. Any resolution?
Me? my resolution is let 2007 witness the car prices crashing down like avalanche of volcanic ashes.
Wah, this one nothing to say, except to make the comments in this thread reach 100!