F1 cars to use 2.2 liter turbocharged V6 in 2011?

F1 Ferrari

F1 cars might switch to turbocharged 2.2 litre V6 engines in 2011, if FIA president Max Mosley gets his way. And these engines might just use biofuel, and drivetrains might use all-wheel drive. Also suggested are power boost buttons much like the A1GP style, which should be achievable by upping the turbocharger boost.

These changes are an effort to make the F1 sport more cost-efficient, road relevant and environmentally friendly. Part of the environmentally-friendly strategy is to use a single engine for at least 5 GP races, instead of the current 1 engine to 2 race ratio.

Currently F1 cars are 2.4 litre V8s, having dropped from 3.0 litre V10s in 2006. The last use of a turbocharger in F1 was in 1988, with a ban being imposed the next year. These turbocharged engines were limited to 1.5 litre turbo engines, and 3.5 litre normally aspirated engines were also allowed. You had to pick either one.

The turbo engines usually made more power than the normally aspirated ones – 685 horsepower from a Honda RA168E turbo V6 limited to 2.5 bars of boost compared to Ford’s DFR 3.5 litre V8 making 585 horsepower.

Source

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Paul Tan

After dabbling for years in the IT industry, Paul Tan initially began this site as a general blog covering various topics of personal interest. With an increasing number of readers paying rapt attention to the motoring stories, one thing led to another and the rest, as they say, is history.

 

Comments

  • azrai (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 3:52 pm

    Remember the Gen2 Indon buyer who said Campro engine is F1 prototype? I think he's right. :) :)

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  • normaluser (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 3:53 pm

    The turbo advantage is probably of getting the max torque at lower RPMs & better acceleration, but compromised with turbo lag. I'm not sure if turbo engines consumes more fuel per km compared to the N.A. ones. But I like the idea of having the turbo boost like the A1 GP.. make it some kinda of NOS boost like those underground sprint races.

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  • albagmane (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 4:17 pm

    hoho… im looking forward to see this happen!

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  • Ricc (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 4:26 pm

    Darn Mad Max is at it again.. Causing car manufacturer to lost more millions to develop the new engine.. 10k rpm??? Even Takumi's AE86 have 11k rpm.. ROFL..

    I rather watch Initial D if the new engine rule is implemented..

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  • aesthari (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 4:32 pm

    Good move I think, especially the smaller displacement engines, limiting teams to one engine for 5 races will pose a new challenge too; they'll have to be strategic and build more reliable engines while not compromising performance.

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  • tHe CuLpRit (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 4:32 pm

    Mitsubishi for F1?

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  • siputt (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 5:46 pm

    2.2 turbocharge with all wheel drive?…WTF, why just stop f1 and just bring rally car to the track…crazy max

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  • ab (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 5:46 pm

    all wheel drive? how do you get a driveshaft to the from wheels of a formula car???

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  • sxe10r (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 5:51 pm

    The F1 using the V6 2.2 Turbocharge ??? enough to race ??? actually the F1 now using what type of engine ??? i really dunno ?? it is V12 engine in ferrali ?

    woh 2.5 bars … sure large turbo man ….. It is the Mitsubishi 6A10 1.6 V6 nice to tune it up wif supercharge or Twin turbo ??? … think to try it

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  • cbljkkj (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 5:57 pm

    Its will be good to see that F1 is finally going back to turbo-charging their cars.

    normaluser:

    They would probably implement such technologies to the turbine such as VTG (Variable Turbine Geometry) available in such cars as the new Porsche 911 Turbo.

    Ricc:

    They would probably limit the rev limit to 10,000RPM due to the fact that they are running high compression pistons with turbochargers. Too high an RPM pull will cause unsurmountable engine and turbine damage over prolonged periods of time.

    Plus i think at 10,000 RPM and turbocharging, it would achieve the same amount or even exceed torque and horsepower than revving 12,000 RPM on the current 2.5Litre V8s.

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  • sxe10r (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 5:59 pm

    The F1 using the V6 2.2 Turbocharge ??? enough to race ??? actually the F1 now using what type of engine ??? i really dunno ?? it is V12 engine in ferrali ?

    woh 2.5 bars … sure large turbo man ….. It is the Mitsubishi 6A10 1.6 V6 nice to tune it up wif supercharge or Twin turbo ??? … think to try it …

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  • BrakeFader (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 6:30 pm

    What a regulation. I guess it will challange manufacturers to crack their heads again with the new engine restrictions. In future, we might expect 1.8L I4, 1.4L I4 then who knows 0.6L I3? Can't imagine if they impose K-car restrictions on F1 in future. 660cc Ferrari?

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  • siputt (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 7:08 pm

    at the end of the day…f1 will using flinstone tech hahahaha

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  • Hikaru (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 7:10 pm

    ab has a point. How do u keep the car low and still have a drive shaft to the front to spin the front wheels? The engineers ingenuinity should have a solution to that but what's this all about "win today, sell tomorrow?". Why is F1 bowing down to the marketing boffins? We need the sound and the technical excellence to attract us to watch the sport and not the "I can buy one too" attraction or "this is what my car can do" because ur car can't unless u shell out exhorbitant amount of money.

    What is the point of making the engine smaller?Oh so Max Mosley can make more money out of commercials…….wait isn't that Bernie ?

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  • proton GL (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 7:59 pm

    one of the challange, to design a long tiny lightweight superstrong nortn to south shaft.

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  • hondadriver (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 8:04 pm

    the 1.5litre turbo cars of the past used to make more than 1000bhp in qualifying trim.

    no matter what the regulations are, F1 will never really be a "win today, sell tommorow" concept. I'm pretty sure they will still continue to push the boundaries of technology regardless of the restrictions. Even with tyre, testing, engine, etc. restrictions today, F1 cars are still lapping faster and faster than before.

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  • ybng (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 8:48 pm

    If that is the case, we have A1GP already. Why ?

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  • armandd (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 8:49 pm

    with 2.2l turbocharged motor and AWD the cars will be too fast to be seen by anyone..

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  • StingRayINC (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 11:04 pm

    Hmm i think it is good for the environment, but when we mention about F1 in my mind "SPEED and POWER" come first. If they gonna make F1 almost similar to A1GP. I think i'll switch to WTCC instead.

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  • nmh (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 11:21 pm

    2.0 is enuf i think for turbo or supercharger or maybe twincharger…..and make it V8, sounds cool…..add some rule to manufacture long lasting engine components….we can get F1 halfcut after each season hehe

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  • hondadriver (Member) on May 21, 2007 at 11:49 pm

    The article is about future technical regulations governing F1.. No comparison whatsoever with A1GP has been drawn, what has those things mentioned in the article have anything to do with A1GP??!!?, they are totally different types of racing.

    PUshing the boundaries of technology will always be a hallmark of F1. if the F1 bosses say all cars will use battery powered cars, I'm pretty darned sure the engineers will come up with the fastest most radical battery powered cars the world has seen and it would probably be as quick as F1 cars of the past. Thats the difference with the other race formula as compared with F1. They will always come up with new things to adapt to the rules.

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  • osh_kosh (Member) on May 22, 2007 at 12:56 am

    hondadriver said,

    May 21, 2007 @ 12:04 pm

    "the 1.5litre turbo cars of the past used to make more than 1000bhp in qualifying trim.

    no matter what the regulations are, F1 will never really be a “win today, sell tommorow” concept. I’m pretty sure they will still continue to push the boundaries of technology regardless of the restrictions. Even with tyre, testing, engine, etc. restrictions today, F1 cars are still lapping faster and faster than before."

    u r absolutely right…. I'm totally agree with u on that :)

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  • osh_kosh (Member) on May 22, 2007 at 1:00 am

    btw, all wheel drive F1 cars??? that's interesting… hmmm…

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  • cosmohybrid (Member) on May 22, 2007 at 1:05 am

    i remember back in 1987, the honda f1 team was using a 1.5L six cylinder turbocharged engine running 4 bar boost which generate close to 1000hp…

    in fact by using the turbo, fuel efficiency actually improved because of higher density of o2 in the airflow forced feed by the turbo which leads to better combustion in which translate to better power output.. eventually FIA decided to ban those turboed engine because even by restricting the boost and fuel to bring the turboed engine down to 600hp, it still beat a 3L NA engine with no air or fuel restriction by a distance.. yeah.. TURBO POWER…!

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  • cbljkkj (Member) on May 22, 2007 at 1:26 am

    Support turbocharging, support recycling wasted exhaust gases to spin fins to force induct air into engines lol.

    Turbocharging is a great way of utilizing fuel in comparison to NA methods. Thats why they were built in the first place, to aid heavy vehicles such as trucks, lorries buses to make more power, not for powering race cars at the beginning.

    It so happened that it was the cheapest and most conventional way that car makers began applying turbochargers to cars to maximize fuel efficiency in cars such as Volvos and Mercedes Benz's

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  • transformer (Member) on May 22, 2007 at 4:40 am

    for the earth, BIO FUEL would be used for the next coming engine!

    BRAVO FIA!!!

    Turbo / Supercharged also welcome!!!

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  • mystvearn (Member) on May 22, 2007 at 4:54 am

    Will this mean the cars will be more slower than usual? 2020 the cars will run on batteries? I understand what he is thinking, but I am not sure I like it. V6 2.2l is relevent with normal cars, maybe honda will just put i-vtech engine in it, but unline seeing a car blistering pass you, you will look the safety car being faster than the race cars…

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  • Illuminate (Member) on May 22, 2007 at 6:02 am

    Ridiculous. The teams should just abandon FIA and create their own series, I'd support them, Bernie and Mad Max is truly idiotic.

    A1GP is the alternative if we are talking about boost button's and limited engine power, F1 is never truly safe, even with all sorts of protection. And to limit the cars is totally defeating the purpose of F1, I can't stop cursing, but then, I'm not in a position to say anything at all.. What to do? – Aihz..

    Turbos are welcome but please don't limit the cars anymore, sure, set a rule and that's it. Further improvements are unstoppable, and it is only inevitable that the rules cannot make the cars slower, but speed aside, we need competition! – The current aerodynamics rule in F1 is limiting the driver's overtaking chances, and making the show boring, bring back the slicks, abolish the grooves, or provide an even better competitive tyre for the drivers to race in..

    Limit aerodynamic developments yes, but please give the drivers more mechanical grip so they can do their job which we want to see, overtaking, defensive driving, wheel to wheel driving. – I don't want to see races won by pit stop strategies alone, although that plays a major part too..

    But one thing, the banning of electronics, is what I fully support, and I really wanna see the 1979 French GP relived, too bad Gilles Villeneuve passed away before my time..

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  • aksMs (Member) on May 22, 2007 at 9:37 am

    They use to have 1.5 litre engines so what's wrong with the 2.2 V6? It doesn't matter really. Those engineers would still manage to make the car go faster every year.

    Engine is not an issue. F1 gets bored because it only went down to pit strategy to win a race. I'm going along with Illuminate on this. They should stop limiting the drivers.

    Banning the electronics is another way to go. Heck, I miss the day when drivers use their driving skills launching off the starting grid instead of launch control.

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  • w_lighter (Member) on May 22, 2007 at 12:25 pm

    Let turbocharged rotary engine in and i bet it will pwn all…

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  • LittleFire85 (Member) on May 22, 2007 at 6:15 pm

    But the rotary FC might be worst then the V6.. rotary are famous for worst FC.. if too much time on fueling.. i think it will still loss compare to V6.. And the rotary engine is hard to fix compare to V6, spare parts are hard to replace..

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  • w_lighter (Member) on May 23, 2007 at 3:28 am

    Erm.. i dun think in F1 they will hav spare part problem … hahahaha

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  • PTAllTheBest (Member) on May 24, 2007 at 12:54 pm

    they will use high efficient turbocharger and supercharger in the future.

    at the same time elimination on ABS and also traction control so the f1 car will be more depend on the driver's skill.

    and also the tyres will be using 5 groove instead of current 4.

    back to the 80s era when the honda turbo engine was dominating the whole f1 season before it was banned

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  • Illuminate (Member) on May 25, 2007 at 1:06 am

    Seriously, bring back the ground effect cars.. xD

    Nah.. Not possible they'll grant this.. Maybe we should hope that some genius comes around and suggests a great idea to make the sport more competitive..

    It is just too boring now.

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  • LittleFire85 (Member) on May 25, 2007 at 3:10 am

    Err.. i mean the rotary engine durability is not as well as V6.. and the new rules u see 1 engine for 5 races… So anything spoils on the engine must be replace with spare parts or repair it.. Rotary is not an easy thing to do with, so with the expertise of man power is less.. and the fuel rotary using in race, i think is not the same petrol other racer used. I think they use aeroplane / helicopter fuel, since rotary is from air craft.. the expenses is more then V6.. And i think the F1 team management wont allowed other kind of engine to compete, becoz it is unfair for others who don't have this technology to race..

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  • Christian Pandolfi on Apr 28, 2009 at 4:41 am

    [quote comment="87994"]The turbo advantage is probably of getting the max torque at lower RPMs & better acceleration, but compromised with turbo lag. I'm not sure if turbo engines consumes more fuel per km compared to the N.A. ones. But I like the idea of having the turbo boost like the A1 GP.. make it some kinda of NOS boost like those underground sprint races.[/quote]

    Variable Turbine Geometry VTG, kicks the Turbo lag

    Less flow the intake gets smaller, the gas flux is constant. so there is no noticeable Turbo lag anymore,

    VTG are used in Porsches and such cars.

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  • Leon reutrot on May 26, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    Do you know that the time of the Formula one is over.
    They should no longer exist.
    Not this kind of Formula one.
    The technology of our Formula one is just finnish.

    People have invented a vehicule far quicker as a Formula1
    And it’s quite simple.

    Our Formula one must break before a curve.
    They got hell. they break badely. Then they go through this curve at low speed.
    What a waste of time. Our Formula one are so slow in the curve. Snails in the curves.

    People have invented a vehicule with a motorbike engine, four wheels, and the chasis move in the curve TILT. the four wheels remain parallel but they move to an angel like 30 degrees from the ground instead of the fix 90 degrees .
    This light vehicule tilt like a motorbike driver tilt in a curve.

    Then Formula one must be the faster vehicule on earth. Then they must tilt in the curves.

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