Second Finance Minister Tan Sri Nor Mohamed Yakcop said if the second round of the most recent attempt at negotiating the Proton-Volkswagen partnership deal is successful, we will be able to hear some positive news by the end of this month.
“Insya Allah, we hope the discussions with Volkwagen now entering its second stage will be successful and we will in a short time be able to say something on the progress of the talks,” he said.
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After dabbling for years in the IT industry, Paul Tan initially began this site as a general blog covering various topics of personal interest. With an increasing number of readers paying rapt attention to the motoring stories, one thing led to another and the rest, as they say, is history.
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lets hope something do come out of this… Proton really need a partner, and quick.
kinda difficult to sustain if Proton's going to keep developing new models and Malaysia is the only major market. its just too costly.
with VW coming in, expect the quality to improve, witness how Skoda is respected now in Europe, and Seat too. imagine a Neo with VW fit & finish… even 80% would be great! dont have to talk bout handling as Proton cars already handle well but the best part will be the engine transfer, or at least using some of the tech on Protons long overdue Campro…
VW will benefit too, cos then they'll have access to Lotus, which means their cars will handle even better, if thats even possible..
and then there's there fact that Porsche's got shares in VW… hmmm…
Second Stage ? Play games ar Second stage, third stage and Final Stage ?
Cut the crap, get the conclusion on the table. On your table, RAKYAT's table.
Hahaha… still talk-talk again? No-lah!!
BTW, do you all notice that Waja is similar to Jetta?
I realised that when playing PS2 SRS (Street Racing Syndicate) game.
Cool Game with Cool Babes!!
Er, even Skoda is look like Waja eh?
If VW takes over, Lotus will be sold off – perhaps to Spyker. As Porsche is a major shareholder of VW group, there's no sense to have a rival company within the group. The fact that Lotus never made money for Proton will also weigh heavily against VW keeping it.
What else to be sold for foreign after this?
Perodua = already sold to toyota.
Proton = 'to be sell' to VW
Later? Petronas? Khazanah? Etc..
The 'typically' rakyat will shouting!.. yeah.. we want cheap carrrr!!.. we don't care if you even sold this country!..
Err.. there's malay phase "Menang sorak, kampung tergadai"..
Don't be too OPTIMISTIC lah bro!
All this TALKS is only TALKS, just to make sure Those Cronies can Sell off the Shares as QUICK as possible, just before the price down further.
If the business is make sense to VW, why not they rejected it from the Begining?
And ABB had expressed before VW had no interest to work with PROTON.
If you hold the share now, please sell it off as soon as possible. GOOD LUCK bro!!
Malaysia Boleh!!
bmpower said,
June 14, 2007 @ 9:14 am
What else to be sold for foreign after this?
Perodua = already sold to toyota.
………………………………………………………………………………………………
Bro. Where do you get this fact from? Perodua sold to Toyota? Perodua is actually under Daihatsu/Toyota. They just rebrand and rebadged the product to suit Malaysian market (and some for exports).
When the price is low, I am sure NAZI is buying A LOT….as many as possible.
NAZI is also one of the CRONY of G.
Fox.. No matter how and what.. Toyota is still the parent company. Just hiding behind daihatsu name. The profit and benefit still goes to toyota.
Rebadge and rebrand is GOOD IF toyota do right? But if proton rebadge? You called it stupid and nonesense right? How double standard was that? Or japan propaganda already done?
I personally think, DRB hicom is the best, and they got a truely business leader in there = Syed Mohtar Al Bukhari.
Anyway, is there any malaysian chinese businessman want to involve in automobile industry? Nop.. they won't get involved in this hardest and waste money industry .
Ok fine.. just sell it to foreign laa.. and then let see how dreaming we are for the cheaper car ever.. Keep on dreaming peoples!
#
bmpower said,
June 14, 2007 @ 9:14 am
What else to be sold for foreign after this?
Perodua = already sold to toyota.
Proton = ‘to be sell’ to VW
Later? Petronas? Khazanah? Etc..
The ‘typically’ rakyat will shouting!.. yeah.. we want cheap carrrr!!.. we don’t care if you even sold this country!..
Err.. there’s malay phase “Menang sorak, kampung tergadaiâ€..
—————————————————————-
Do you know what is "katak di bawah tempurung?" The G only want to sell company that rugi banyak, semasa rugi itu wang kita loo… tax kita bayar! Kalau kita tak jual P1 share, nanti rugi lagi banyak… Kau nak semua wang yang anda bayar tax dan invest dalam dana bumiputra habis? Itu dana yang kita invest pun invest dalam khazanah dan jika P1 rugi, dana pun rugi! Tak baca economi meh! Kalau jual cantik kita boleh invest di tempat lain! Negara pun untung kita pun untung!
Lagipun G tak jual semua, hanya 51%. Oleh itu, walaupun menang, kampung tak tergadai kesemuanya! Lagipun Perodua itu dibawah kuasa UMW Toyota, ia company bumiputra yang dibawa oleh Tun Dr.M before… Kalau encik belajar politics, G yang baik adalah tidak campur tangan dalam apa-apa business.. Tapi kerana $$$ G officer mau untung lebih dan invest dalam business yang monopoly seperti P1 yang hidup selama 20 tahun menjual technology yang lama kepada kita, kerana dia dilindung oleh G, kita terpaksa beli kerana gaji kita yang rendah.. semua kereta diimport terpaksa ditax tinggi supaya kepentingan P1 dilindung.. tapi lepas 20 tahun pun tak boleh banding dengan kereta import lain… Lagi kereta korea dan china pun menang dari kita.. Tak ada kemampuan nak jaga sendiri punya car company nak muka tembok rugi terus? Kalau kau berfikiran buka, lebih baik jual equity kepada VW.. Lagi orang putih semua bukan dulu mau perang, mereka hanya bersifat business dan ingin kita perolehi harga kereta yang sebanding dengan quality, keselamatan dan keselesaan..
bmpower said,
June 14, 2007 @ 9:36 am
Ok fine.. just sell it to foreign laa.. and then let see how dreaming we are for the cheaper car ever.. Keep on dreaming peoples!
——————————————–
Anyway car actually are cheap.. just that our G delayed the open market.. Do u know 1 nissan sentra only cost RM45k-55k only? Toyota camry only RM65k-85k? The G have to tax to protect kepentingan P1 dan harap dia akan dapat kerja technologi orang lain sebelum 2010.. Tapi P1 gagal dan rugi sekarang.. sudah delayed open market yang sepatutnya jalan pada tahun 2004.. P1 hanya orang yang takut to face the reality that their company sudah lama lembik di belakang.. Oleh itu, Kereta akan lebih murah pada masa hadapan! Tapi, saya expect minyak petrol akan naik harga dan road tax akan naik balik.. Saya dengar desas desus mengatakan bahawa lepas pilihan raya, tahun 08' minyak akan naik 14 sen lagi.. Matilah RM2.10/ Liter.. Kalau barang satu turun yang lain naik.. itu orang kata balance…
"Anyway, is there any malaysian chinese businessman want to involve in automobile industry? Nop.. they won’t get involved in this hardest and waste money industry ."
China banyak company cina buat kereta loo… di malaysia chinese are less involve coz of G politics! The G only want bumiputra to share! those cronies are mostly bumiputra! Dont blame chinese, coz some suppliers are chinese also but their numbers are less… chinese involve in business that generate untung but not rugi.. If P1 always rugi, do u want to invest? think again man..
Actually Lotus would not be a rival to Porsche within the VW Group since Lotus Engineering holds lot of engineering experties and actually designed some of Porsche engine that uses cam profiling switching, only that the patent is exclusively hold by Porsche to use..so I suppose that is why Proton cannot just simply release their engine with true Camprofiling switching without breaching the intellectual right hold by Porsche…so they need to redesign the system to get away with it…I dont think Porsche will look at Lotus as their threat, but as a welcomed ally…to me without Lotus in sight, VW would not have stick to the table to talk about coorporation with Proton..
#
Fox said,
June 14, 2007 @ 9:24 am
bmpower said,
June 14, 2007 @ 9:14 am
What else to be sold for foreign after this?
Perodua = already sold to toyota.
………………………………………………………………………………………………
Bro. Where do you get this fact from? Perodua sold to Toyota? Perodua is actually under Daihatsu/Toyota. They just rebrand and rebadged the product to suit Malaysian market (and some for exports).
==hmm……..please check thru the history of the cooperate company and cooperate info before give any comments. don't sound rite.
bmpower said,
June 14, 2007 @ 9:36 am
Anyway, is there any malaysian chinese businessman want to involve in automobile industry? Nop.. they won’t get involved in this hardest and waste money industry .
#
LittleFire85 said,
June 14, 2007 @ 10:06 am
China banyak company cina buat kereta loo… di malaysia chinese are less involve coz of G politics! The G only want bumiputra to share! those cronies are mostly bumiputra! Dont blame chinese, coz some suppliers are chinese also but their numbers are less… chinese involve in business that generate untung but not rugi.. If P1 always rugi, do u want to invest? think again man..
==hmm………malaysian chinese also involved in automotive industries. please open ur eyes wide. please check also our main sport rims supplier, jrd & bsa.
it seems lots don't know much about automotives industries and to love cars. pity……………whahahaha.
#bmpower said,
June 14, 2007 @ 9:36 am
Anyway, is there any malaysian chinese businessman want to involve in automobile industry? Nop.. they won’t get involved in this hardest and waste money industry .
#LittleFire85 said,
June 14, 2007 @ 10:06 am
China banyak company cina buat kereta loo… di malaysia chinese are less involve coz of G politics! The G only want bumiputra to share! those cronies are mostly bumiputra! Dont blame chinese, coz some suppliers are chinese also but their numbers are less… chinese involve in business that generate untung but not rugi.. If P1 always rugi, do u want to invest? think again man..
#tec96248 said,
==hmm………malaysian chinese also involved in automotive industries. please open ur eyes wide. please check also our main sport rims supplier, jrd & bsa.
it seems lots don’t know much about automotives industries and to love cars. pity……………whahahaha.
—————————-
Cat got your tongue? bro bmpower! forget to do homework… alamak. kesian.. wahaha
maybe i'm wrong…. but check out the number of service centres.. any brand. what about the other supporting automotive industries.. like what tec96248 said.. open eyes big big and look…
well maybe such things shouldn't be highlighted…. what if we wake up the next day, then theres a sudden policy that needs us to partner… hmm.. then that won't be nice would it…
%$&%^*%$%
Guys and gals,
Whatever being said and done, it is history . The G can say whatever they want. They can play sendiawara whatever and whenever they wishes. It still wont cut it for P1. As long P1 is being protected, the level of fair competition and playing field is not there. Vehicle prices is not coming down just yet. No Way ! The way the G manipulates the industry is sickening. The only reason VW is being involved in fruitless talk and nego is due to the fact that the G holds all the approval of APs and imported vehicles as well they are instructed to enter into nego with P1 anyway. For VW, whether they took up the offer of 51% stake in P1 or not doesnt make sense to them. Why do you want to keep on somethin that is a dying breed ?. P1 is a dying breed. They simply cant complete, Reason the corrupted and greedy P1 top management and officers as well as vendors played the role of destructor of P1. Greed breed evil. My six sense tells me VW not going to take up the offer unless it is attractively priced or at a huge discount (basically like 40-50% discount ) from the current KLSE closing price of P1. That would be a fair value that VW would take which translates to around acquistion price of P1 around RM2.00 to RM 2.70 per share. If they announced this transaction to SC, i can assure you that it will sent jitters to the market. As for strategic marketing , VW will gain a foot hold in Malaysia but it wont be long before they decided to pull out al together (if they decided to take up the offer).
For a marriage to work , both parties must reap the benefits or the post acquisition earnings which i dont see it here.
Here is some of my opinion on this partnership,
When I hear the first thing about partnership of Proton and Volkswagen, I really worried about what's happen with our National Car company. This alliance might makes Proton as a only subsidaries just like what happen in Nissan Renault's allaince. We could not make any pride to the Proton as national cars anymore, like what happen to Perodua.
Now Perodua is under Daihatsu/Toyota company. As I do understand from some of the Perodua staff, there is no more privillage to the Perodua management especially on desicion making. Take an example of MyVi, the real design was inspried by current Proton CEO Dato' Syed Zainal Abidin bin Syed Mohamed Tahir, but what happen after Perodua was brought over the design have to be sold to Toyota so that Perodua could get cheap moulding, and now MyVi is so-called 'Daihatsu Boon derived'.Malaysian don't really understand how making a car is complicated, but just saying in loud emotionally.
Since the current CEO of Proton have take care of this company, many improvements in Proton we could see. Take a major look on the Proton's car warranty now is extended to 5 years. Quality has improved much better than before.And if say you looking for good car handling, it's much more better than Korean cars.Totally-designed Proton's Waja have Multi-Link rear suspension, compared to Nissan Sentra and Toyota Vios, and even Honda City that used torsion beam axle for the suspension, same as lowest rank Proton Savvy. I used to dream to have Sentra before this then but when compared back to Proton spec's I opt for Waja.
Malaysian now should understand how to apprecaite what we have. Don't let the nation pride to loss, as what's now we loss Perodua to Daihatsu, KTM, Telekom to Singapore's Temasik Holdings. All of them now suffered cause all desicion, even file archaving have to be linked to out of Malaysia. Support our product, it's getting better now.And to the Proton, think for export market and no more double-standard for local market. Then soon the rakyat will support you, pride to you better than Honda.My best wish to Proton,Long Live to you..
Whether P1 do or do not become partners with VW, the whole saga has revealed a lot of weaknesses with regards to the G as well as P1.
Here are some;
1. Being a M'sian, i feel betrayed n angry hearing tht export model proton are of better quality than P1 models manufactured from our OWN backyard. Are M'sian too low class to receive the export model?? Remember, if M'sian didn't buy P1 cars in the first place, P1 wld never hv taken off n there probably won't be any plans to export it.
2. And lets not mention the on-going politics with regards to this whole P1 n VW partnership telenovela. If the G really wants to do it for the SAKE of the rakyat, the deal would have been sealed up a long time ago.
3. And when competitively priced foreign brands come in and provide the rakyat MUCH NEEDED quality and options and P1 began losing market shares, only then do P1 began to undergo TUV certification to ensure that its cars are up to mark. All the rakyats complaints to P1 before that fell on deaf ears but when market forces 'talk', only then were P1 'forced' to produce better quality cars.
So, even if the partnership btwn P1 n VW do come true, i'm only excited as to what VW wld bring in. And if P1/VW do come out with a new model, it wld take some time for me to eventually have faith in the Proton badge. But IF the deal fails, i'd still be happy for VW coz it deserves a much BETTER partner..
wah.. this conversation become more interesting..
anyway, i just hope to buy a car with reasonable price.. not like today.
i dont care who will buy P1 but i do care the quality for P1 build in future.
P1, this will be yr last change. so make wise move.
or else you just "RIP"
Little Fire 85,
hopefully no more petrol price increase la…
if increase? get a diesel engine!!
bmpower.
gov't to sell khazanah? seriously, i hope you don't just say it because you want to.. khazanah is the country's investment arm… what in the world would make the government sell itself?
I believe the comment column is to comment on the issue's posted and share our point of view.. no need to add in some baseless statement like what you said..
Moha774… to add to your comment.. tanjung malim too… i read it somewhere that it was claimed the tanjung malim plant holds some of the best manufacturing technology available… to bad, wasted on producing old cars…
oh well, if this tie-up really happen.. i wouldn't mind getting my hand on some nicely priced Golf or Tourag…
funnily, i had a dream last night.. regarding this tie-up stuff.. i dreamt that Proton turn the table on VW and tie up with the Fiat group.. hahaha.. don't know why..
hhehe..
i don;t have to be like bashers to fight bashers.
now.. can anyone tell me.. What the hell mean of 51% share of a company?
LEARN BUSINESS PEOPLE.
seems too many childish here.. those still thinkin you can get 45K new sentra if proton sold. you think G will give to you just like that? Even in this 50 year of merdeka only kelantan and terengganu changed . So you wanna G to follow you request.. Dreamin again .
No wonder.. you're typical people outside there.. those still suffer to pay you montly car instalment.. And if salry increase.. you will trade-in you old car.. just to make sure you got the new one.. Instead save the money, invest in something better.. Like Share Investment, (oh! don't typical public mutual , another risk one). You can make 100K per year what.. and can buy CASH a new cheap car.
So! Proceed up with your typically 'katak bawah tempurung bashers' those still thinking they are god damn great business man.
Sorry.. im busy making money now. Not like somebody always in here. So many free time ah?
sorry.. to many typo. in hurry , to check my KLSE stock. bye
Agreed with bwpower..vehicle price wont drop, u ll never get cheaper price even proton rip..increase ? might be coz G wont protect anymore n assembler, trader n car dealer of watever car will put at high profit..suka hati
bmpower… why are you diverting from actual issue at hand? you raised many baseless claim… and you are not going to defend it?
and if you are really into share trading, you wouldn't even have time for this.. and at this hour on top of that… highly suspicious that you just want to cover up for your embarassing statement… and trying to de-grade others now so that you would seem on top of everybody…
also if you are really into investing shares, wouldn't you have more knowledge of the companies like Perodua?? Khazanah?? DRB-Hicom?? Unless you are one of those market followers who only buy shares just because the streets says its a good buy…
digiman .. actually, if you read carefully my first post here..
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Later? Petronas? Khazanah? Etc..
++++++++++++++++++++++++
you must notice the '?' = "question mark"
I'm bit confused and frusted over current G. Seems they want to sell everything in malaysia. The Mahathir build it all in the past 10 year, with all the hardest thing around him and now… our G doing not so much to make the 'broken part' back to be well.. If proton is 'broken', as business man, they dont had to listen too much pointless rakyat (those always begging for cheap car). Just do like Mahathir's doing = keep silent.. close all media.. And yes = the result remain good.
But in this era, proton just following all from rakyat want.. even rakyat want proton to show all their 'doing, done thing'.. Telus / transparency konon. But in the end.. it's so stupid.. no other company in the world want to show their total company 'running process'.
Easy example. : You're the owner of a shop… all peoples want cheap in reason this and this? . So you just follow?
So.. i do write IF one by one company owned by negara or whatever.. i just afraid from one to one another will be sold later. EVEN KHAZANAH.. (no.. this never happen.. ) but thaksin in thai already doin something what?
If petronas getting problem later.. maybe we should go for rakyat's lah.. RUGI = JUAL, RUGI = JUAL.. when petronas also rugi.. jual laa!.. you can get CHEAP PETROL also!..
The problem is to be solve.. not just selling everything..
The G must doing something better, doing something more better then just let 51% to be taken only to upraise the share for few RM?.. There's no Strategic JV.. Outsiders just only want to take over!.. There's many way to go.. just dont listen to rakyat so much.. As Mahathir did!.. As we known, how many rakyat hates mahathir when he build putrajaya, starting klia etc = rakyat's said = MEMBAZIR / Nonesense! bla bla.. But in the end.. as the thing is GOOD and TRUE.. rakyat will said.. ohhh.. youre so genius.. Prtffffff
In what ever.. proton die or not..i not care so much.. i got few bucks selling their share on klse today.. better than bashing bla bla here..
Malaysian's being more selfish now..
God!!.. Im typing so longggg..enufff
Alifz said,
Since the current CEO of Proton have take care of this company, many improvements in Proton we could see. Take a major look on the Proton’s car warranty now is extended to 5 years. Quality has improved much better than before.And if say you looking for good car handling, it’s much more better than Korean cars.Totally-designed Proton’s Waja have Multi-Link rear suspension, compared to Nissan Sentra and Toyota Vios, and even Honda City that used torsion beam axle for the suspension, same as lowest rank Proton Savvy. I used to dream to have Sentra before this then but when compared back to Proton spec’s I opt for Waja.
—————————————————————-
Bro,
Without tax, Vios/city price is only arnd RM50K ….cheaper than the RM60++ waja….thats why using torsion beam (cheap car Mah!!)…the current RM80K is due to tax inflated prices to protect P1's Waja!!….if real price…Waja should compare wt Civic ler
bmpower, dream on, you seem study crap-nomic, freaknomic and protonomic. Go and dream that P1 + NAP = sucking rakyat blood can be manitain at all cost!
Go and pray hard that the talk benefit you in term of goreng-goreng share and go play-play with the share, hopefully your finger do not get burn!
As to your statement: –
————-
"Later? Petronas? Khazanah? Etc..
The ‘typically’ rakyat will shouting!.. yeah.. we want cheap carrrr!!.. we don’t care if you even sold this country!.."
————-
We don't need to have the wildest imagination and great dream by selling the country in order to get "cheap car". Langkawi and Labuan demonstrate that without NAP but under free market we can enjoy Nissan Sentra at RM 45K – 55K.
Stop dreaming that NAP+P1 is a permanent landscape in our auto industry – STOP THE BUYING, STOP THE SUCKING! If P1 can't competitive, close shop.
dis is good news
digiman said,
June 14, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
funnily, i had a dream last night.. regarding this tie-up stuff.. i dreamt that Proton turn the table on VW and tie up with the Fiat group.. hahaha.. don’t know why..
_________________________________________
Great i like fiat too.. its logo only, just brilliant..
by the way a cheaper golf, touareg and beetle not bad huh..
well, malaysian not only want to own cheap n cheerful car, but we also want to be competitive, hope our p1 can fight with other car companies…finally of coz sack all those bloody (great in politics, talks n makan money through making car) suckers..
bmpower..
would like to correct your baseless "stock trader" information claim.
1: Shin Corp is Thakshin's personal company. Not Thailand's investment arm. Khazanah IS Malaysia investment arm. Same with Temasek to Singapore. Same with InvestPenang to the State of Penang. And Thakshin sold Shin Corp for money.
2: Who in their right mind would want to hold on to a dying company apart from pride? Anyone in the right state of mind for investment will only think of 1 thing, minimal losses, maximum gains. You as a "stock trader" should know that.
3: Selfish and greed lives in everybody. Why are in in "stock trading" if you are not greedy and selfish right? Aren't you only gaining those monies for yourself? hypocrite.
4: Don't you want transparency? You as a "stock trader" should regard transparency as the highest regards.
5: Aren't the holding of 49% huge enough for someone who doesn't know how to run a company properly after so many years? and reap 49% of the rewards for just sitting there? In the case of proton, it would have been better if we have the upper hand, but if the management from VW can turn Proton around, why not? If VW can make more money out of the Tanjung Malim arm, why not? Don't you think the effect would trickle down to the general economy?
If VW can bring in lower cost VW cars, wouldn't you want it? Tell me, if you have the money, and the choice, would you go for the best cars you can afford? And if this deal did change the face of the AutoMarket in Malaysia, wouldn't that benefit everybody?
6: Do share with us what many ways to go? Who would have the financial backing as well as the experiene like VW to put Proton on the map? DRB-Hicom? Naza? gosh i would love to believe that, sadly, not true. DRB-Hicom, Naza, Perodua are all working with various partners which hold a substantial shares in the manufacturing arm like Honda Malaysia, Naza Kia, and Perodua (Daihatsu). These JV companies are all managed by their better equipped principals. Unlike Proton, where is the principal? none bro none.
7: If I am an owner of a business, I will bring in whatever the market is missing out on. If the customer demands for cheap products, I offer cheap products la. If customer wants cheap price but premium quality. You go open one shop for that please. I don't have such capabilities. my philosophy is this, you get what you pay for.
And please, don't bring in some political issue here. This is a car blog, not some independant political blog site.
P1basher
oh well. i am actually quite happy with my gen2, just that if this takeover did really change the face of the automaking market, i would love to get my hand on some european cars..
szw.. enjoying the show?
Joe Ooi said,
June 10, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
P1 is accepted to be a global player? Another cheap talk and rubbish!
Even P1 can’t fight in the domestic market and the title “Juara Kampung†is taken away by P1 for the first time in 2006. And now, as everybody know, the talk is ON, OFF, ON, OFF, ON, OFF ……. in search of handsome wanabe Arnie mascular to take care of this ugly never grown up big baby!
Honda cars selling well all over the world including US. In US alone, Honda Accord is 2nd to Camry in term of Japs made mid sedan that is selling more than 300 K unit in 2006. Go to Google to find the fact and exact figure for your self. In Japan, they are second after the Toyota.
Don’t litter PaulTan.Org with rubbish vomit out from your septic mouth! Dude, grow up and talk logically!
———————————————————-
WTF is wrong with you? people are giving their opinion. not everyone is the same in this world. do you think other people think like how you think? do you think you're the smartest? if u're smart, u wouldnt be calling other ppl rubbish… u r sick! dont be too emotional!whenever theres a proton topic, some poor fellow gonna be called rubbish by you. low and some middle class people have no choice in buying cars. proton or probably perodua would probably be the most expensive car there get into. they cant even afford to buy over 60k cars. if they could afford to buy even a civic/altis or 100k+ cars, they wouldnt be loving proton….
sorry for this. im just sick of seeing joe ooi calling other ppl rubbish and cheap talking… thats just ignorant!
Joe Ooi said,
June 14, 2007 @ 6:27 pm
Stop dreaming that NAP+P1 is a permanent landscape in our auto industry – STOP THE BUYING, STOP THE SUCKING! If P1 can’t competitive, close shop.
————————————————————
easy for you to say… you have lots of money. can buy anything you want… low class ppl cant even afford to pay 700 / 800 a month..
he does not even afford to change his crappy lemon waja. same old grandfather stories each time Proton topic appears. what can we say further… this is total utterly rubbish! stop the whining stop the sulking!
Joe Ooi Is Stupid said,
June 14, 2007 @ 10:29 pm
low and some middle class people have no choice in buying cars. proton or probably perodua would probably be the most expensive car there get into. they cant even afford to buy over 60k cars. if they could afford to buy even a civic/altis or 100k+ cars, they wouldnt be loving proton….
————–
That's the heart of the matter though, without the NAP (Nanny Assisting Proton) those people would have a choice, and anybody could buy a Civic/Altis for well under 60k. More competition is better for the consumer, for both price and quality.
The US is a very competitive market, where many well-known manufacturers have failed (Fiat, Daihatsu, Peugeot among others) But this also means that with RM 60k a patient and skilled shopper there would find even a basic Accord or Camry within reach. Major discounts are available due to the fierce competition.
Low and middle income people actually suffer most under the NAP because their already limited buying power is reduced further, and P1 has no incentive to improve their product or pricing.
I wonder if P1 is force to close down, what will happen to the people who work there. Their families, their wives, kids that needs to go to school, babies that need to be fed, etc.
Joe Ooi Is Stupid said,
June 14, 2007 @ 10:32 pm
Joe Ooi said,
June 14, 2007 @ 6:27 pm
Stop dreaming that NAP+P1 is a permanent landscape in our auto industry – STOP THE BUYING, STOP THE SUCKING! If P1 can’t competitive, close shop.
————————————————————
easy for you to say… you have lots of money. can buy anything you want… low class ppl cant even afford to pay 700 / 800 a month..
———————————-
i think proper term is low income… rich people can also be low class..
Joe Ooi Is Stupid said,
June 14, 2007 @ 10:32 pm
Joe Ooi said,
June 14, 2007 @ 6:27 pm
Stop dreaming that NAP+P1 is a permanent landscape in our auto industry – STOP THE BUYING, STOP THE SUCKING! If P1 can’t competitive, close shop.
————————————————————
easy for you to say… you have lots of money. can buy anything you want… low class ppl cant even afford to pay 700 / 800 a month..
________________________________________
i think the proper term is low income… rich people can also be low class right?
New fact from the NST:
" 1,234,636,778 is the number of times talks between Proton and VW have been on and off. Apparently, now it’s on again. If it doesn’t work out this time, maybe you can blame the entry above for it."
Hehehe……..talk kock sing song along along………….
bmpower said:
What else to be sold for foreign after this?
Perodua = already sold to toyota.
Proton = ‘to be sell’ to VW
Later? Petronas? Khazanah? Etc..
The ‘typically’ rakyat will shouting!.. yeah.. we want cheap carrrr!!.. we don’t care if you even sold this country!..
Err.. there’s malay phase “Menang sorak, kampung tergadaiâ€..
————————————————————–
Well, do you really think only Malaysian's companies going to sell to foreign countries or selling their company's stake to other company within their own country? Let me tell you:
1) Last time Aston Martin owned by Ford but sold to Prodrive recently.
2) Daihatsu is part of / subsidaries of Toyota (same Japanese, but different company)
3) Volkswagen own Skoda and Seat. Porsche bought Volkswagen stake.
4) Volvo (Swedish) own by Ford (US).
5) Ford losing money, now want to sell off two of their subsidaries, one of it is Land Rover.
So, please read a lot of news for whole world. Thank you. Stop bashing…please.
cetait, just curious. How do you see the NAP (Nanny Assisting Proton) as assisting proton.
personally, after going thru the NAP policies, and then seeing it in action all these months, all i can say is, it has been detrimental for the entire car industry as a whole, proton included.
Please guys, please stop bashing…
1) When US Auto companies losing money like the Dodge, Ford, Chrysler and General Motors, do you hear the Americans keep bashing those companies? If the car gives them problem(s), they send it to service or just sell it when things come to worst. For your information, many Americans still buy car(s) from those companies.
2) Even Proton (car manufacturer), Perodua (car assembler/rebadge), Naza and Inokom (car assembler/rebadge) no exist from the beginning, do you think our car will be cheaper? The answer is no because our government still will tax the car as tax is one of the government's income. If no tax, you think those working in government sectors will have pay rise? So, don't blame local companies and NAP.
3) Local people bashing own products and companies? If don't like it, don't say and don't buy. Nobody point gun on your head to buy Malaysian products. Like BMW, talk BMW. Like Mercedes-Benz, talk Mercedes-Benz etc. Don't like Malaysia, don't stay in Malaysia.
Joe Ooi Is Stupid said,
June 14, 2007 @ 10:32 pm
Joe Ooi said,
June 14, 2007 @ 6:27 pm
Stop dreaming that NAP+P1 is a permanent landscape in our auto industry – STOP THE BUYING, STOP THE SUCKING! If P1 can’t competitive, close shop.
————————————————————
easy for you to say… you have lots of money. can buy anything you want… low class ppl cant even afford to pay 700 / 800 a month..
—————-
Oops, just like desperado P1 to sell it rebadge stone age milo tin on the wheel Iswara for RM 26,999.00!
To the "honourable rebadge Tan Sri Joe Ooi Is Stupid", you are non other than just like P1 try to rebadge and last time in UK sold it as "Japanese Technology, Malaysian Style"! Now you do make a same moronic statement, hoping that to "sell" your above pathetic talk cock by utilize/lean on "Joe Ooi", just like P1 claim of Lotus Handling thingy in lawn mover Savvy!
OK lah to be kind to you, let me take the burden to prove that you are wrong, which suppose the onus is on you to prove what you said is right.
1. "Joe Ooi is Stupid" – There is no medical or phycology is being conducted/examine to scientifically proof neither "Joe Ooi is Stupid" or intelligent. So, your pathetic rebadge name is rejected (if the desperate yet malicious intention is to smear "Joe Ooi" good name) for lack of evident!
2. Joe Ooi have lots of money? – another talk cock to carry out character assasination. If me is rich, then my current car won't be "Waja" lol! I may buy Mercs or Beemer and "pasang 2 girlfriends".
3. What you mean by low class people? In term of income, character, appearance, etc? Be specific. OK in this case I inteprete it as low income group.
Low income group is those live below poverty line and in many cases, those stay in public housing by DBKL also default in their month rental say RM 120.00!
So, what you said is not only cock talking, but desperate and equally moronic.
The only thing you differ from P1 is you don't paid "royalty" for using "Joe Ooi" name. Of course nothng can be done as it is not a register trade mark! He, he, he, ……………………………
STOP THE BUYING, STOP THE SUCKING!
i know this is slightly out of topic,but as long as proton is still around,,u guys won,t be experiencing,,,,,,Keyless go. STOP THE BUYING STOP THE SUCKING
i know this is slightly out of topic but as long as proton is still around u guys won,t be experiencing,,Keyless Go,,
The best news we can have stopped talking. I think most people are gelat of all this nonsense, PM says this, Khazanah says that, minister says this, VW says this. I really dont think anyone gives a rats arse anymore.
im starting to get bored of this man…haih….
I still remember, there was a forum titled: Letter: Proton in the UK.
While Proton is doing well in Hull (UK), there are so many Malaysian still keep bashing… saying because cheap and got free this and that. Different quality and so on.
Since cars in UK are cheap, do you think people over there will buy cheap but no quality car like Proton? Of course people want to buy something reliable. If cheap but not reliable, you think people will buy?
So, what you want Proton to do? Do bad you complaint and bashing. Do well you also want to complaint and bashing.
Even the people in developed countries appreciate the products. As Malaysian, you guys still keep bashing, so how we want Proton to become better and competitive with others. If you own Proton car(s), got problem(s) send to service centre to complaint and fix the problem(s), non Proton car(s) owners stop bashing.
Just talk the cars you like. Without Proton, Perodua, Naza and Inokom we still have to buy expensive car. No cheap cars as tax is the government's income. If government reduce tax, you got cheap cars but no pay rise whole life for you who work in government sectors.
bmpower said,
June 14, 2007 @ 2:26 pm
hhehe..
i don;t have to be like bashers to fight bashers.
now.. can anyone tell me.. What the hell mean of 51% share of a company?
LEARN BUSINESS PEOPLE.
seems too many childish here.. those still thinkin you can get 45K new sentra if proton sold. you think G will give to you just like that? Even in this 50 year of merdeka only kelantan and terengganu changed . So you wanna G to follow you request.. Dreamin again .
No wonder.. you’re typical people outside there.. those still suffer to pay you montly car instalment.. And if salry increase.. you will trade-in you old car.. just to make sure you got the new one.. Instead save the money, invest in something better.. Like Share Investment, (oh! don’t typical public mutual , another risk one). You can make 100K per year what.. and can buy CASH a new cheap car.
So! Proceed up with your typically ‘katak bawah tempurung bashers’ those still thinking they are god damn great business man.
Sorry.. im busy making money now. Not like somebody always in here. So many free time ah?
==hmm……….ahahahha, ur claim is even childish to make me lol!! hahaha. i believe u r one of the 'katak'. u play share to make 'rm100k' per annum. u havent seen people making more than 'rm100k' without playing share and need not become business man. whahahaha……..
hello Joe Ooi,
the replica or rebadged of u 'Joe Ooi Is Stupid', is funny. and u should be happy. when i read thru makes me laugh nonstop. hahaha.
tell u something, he is telling u, u r smarter firstly moreover he is stupid anyway.
secondly, he admires u, til he have to rebadge ur name. in low class form i guess? meaning he don't get much what u commented…..might be.
afterall, nobody insulted him since he applied such a nickname.
keep ur fingers in control y'all…………………….
The Unicons said,
June 15, 2007 @ 10:08 am
Please guys, please stop bashing…
1) When US Auto companies losing money like the Dodge, Ford, Chrysler and General Motors, do you hear the Americans keep bashing those companies? If the car gives them problem(s), they send it to service or just sell it when things come to worst. For your information, many Americans still buy car(s) from those companies.
2) Even Proton (car manufacturer), Perodua (car assembler/rebadge), Naza and Inokom (car assembler/rebadge) no exist from the beginning, do you think our car will be cheaper? The answer is no because our government still will tax the car as tax is one of the government’s income. If no tax, you think those working in government sectors will have pay rise? So, don’t blame local companies and NAP.
3) Local people bashing own products and companies? If don’t like it, don’t say and don’t buy. Nobody point gun on your head to buy Malaysian products. Like BMW, talk BMW. Like Mercedes-Benz, talk Mercedes-Benz etc. Don’t like Malaysia, don’t stay in Malaysia.
==hmm……..i doubt that u have mentioned something less here. can u please refine it.
1) i heard before, u didn't? might be bashing, comments, complaints, etc…? malaysian still buy proton cars. so?
2) have u check those tax structures or percentage for the automotive industries in malaysia, before and after the existent of the national cars? u didn't, rite?
3) People are allowed to say, even complaint of their products they buy or use, at the ministry of domestic and consumer affair. why can't they complain since the purpose of this department is there for us? so what's ur point? why can't live in malaysia just because of unhappy with one product?
overall, please make some sense in ur comments! since someone complaint lots of childish post overhere.
hhmmm i wonder what happen to bmpower
tec96248.. you were to harsh on him/her la… see.. now he doesn't want to come back… paultan.org lost one hit.. hahaha..
—————
The Unicons said,
June 15, 2007 @ 2:30 pm
I still remember, there was a forum titled: Letter: Proton in the UK.
While Proton is doing well in Hull (UK), there are so many Malaysian still keep bashing… saying because cheap and got free this and that. Different quality and so on.
Since cars in UK are cheap, do you think people over there will buy cheap but no quality car like Proton? Of course people want to buy something reliable. If cheap but not reliable, you think people will buy?
So, what you want Proton to do? Do bad you complaint and bashing. Do well you also want to complaint and bashing.
Even the people in developed countries appreciate the products. As Malaysian, you guys still keep bashing, so how we want Proton to become better and competitive with others. If you own Proton car(s), got problem(s) send to service centre to complaint and fix the problem(s), non Proton car(s) owners stop bashing.
Just talk the cars you like. Without Proton, Perodua, Naza and Inokom we still have to buy expensive car. No cheap cars as tax is the government’s income. If government reduce tax, you got cheap cars but no pay rise whole life for you who work in government sectors.
———–
Brother Unicons.. i agree with you when you say that proton do well.. also complain.. proton do badly also complain… but you have to look at situation…
when i was in korea, i notice one thing.. alot of Kia/Hyundai/Daewoo/Ssang Yong… i ask my korean friend how come nice car so hard to find.. she told me that the market is protected.. same in malaysia, but on a higher scale meaning Korea really protect the market, cause only the rich of the riches can afford foreign cars… and my 1st thought is that how bad can it be for us… surprise surprise… guess what i found out… their kia sorento have the highest specs, LSD, Turbo Diesel, great rideability all the package to be on par with at least a Harrier…
their Hyundai Sonata.. minimum 2.5 v6 if not mistaken, also comes with LSD… daewoo dominate the compact car segment… so didnt notice much..
I ask my friend about the quality of the local cars… i was even more surprise to hear this… the government protects the car, but if the cars receive any complain from the public.. gone.. dissappear… because if the customers suffers because of low quality parts… the manufacturer must and will repair and replace for free…
as for the price.. hell its so much cheaper compared to a foreign cars
now that is one market protection i wouldn't mind… because not only it provides cheap local cars, but of high standards as well… on top of that.. no government support… in terms of monetary of course… and this actually raises the bar for the local manufacturer…
so Unicons, compare to malaysia, we as the consumer are being fingered by some people who only interest is their own pocket and bank accounts… i love proton… the company, because it has potential.. and if i have the knowledge and skills and money, i wouldn't mind taking over proton and run hell all over the world.. its the people bro.. the people…
I think inside Joe Ooi heart, deep down inside.. he truly hate, sorry better to use despise, the people who run proton… i am sure somewhere deep inside him he has a feeling for Proton brand…hahaha joking joking… don't be mad ya Joe…
anyway… cheerios to all
Zzzzzzzz……uh…wha…Proton still talking?…..uh…..go back to sleepzzzz…..zz.z….z.z..zzzz
The Unicons said,
June 15, 2007 @ 2:30 pm
I still remember, there was a forum titled: Letter: Proton in the UK.
While Proton is doing well in Hull (UK), there are so many Malaysian still keep bashing… saying because cheap and got free this and that. Different quality and so on.
Since cars in UK are cheap, do you think people over there will buy cheap but no quality car like Proton? Of course people want to buy something reliable. If cheap but not reliable, you think people will buy?
So, what you want Proton to do? Do bad you complaint and bashing. Do well you also want to complaint and bashing.
Even the people in developed countries appreciate the products. As Malaysian, you guys still keep bashing, so how we want Proton to become better and competitive with others. If you own Proton car(s), got problem(s) send to service centre to complaint and fix the problem(s), non Proton car(s) owners stop bashing.
——————
Unicons, what you said is exactly happen to local consumers and export market simply of P1's lack of Corporate Social Responsiblities (CSR) and adopt bad biz model as mentioned below: –
1. Lack of CSR : By producing low quality, relatively high price, yet unsafe car that put consumers and other road users life cheap on the road. What they interested is P1 + NAP = suck rakyat dry to benefits cronies vendors, AP king, etc.
2. Bad biz model: –
In "corraboration" with NAP and utilize tax payer monies!
a) Selling low quality car at relatively high price for domestic market!
b) Selling high quality car at competitive price for export market!
This may included use relatively cheap RM to subsidize UK consumers that use "super-expensive" GBP! As a result, the high Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) in UK, the selling price for small sedan car like Waja is equivalent to 3 or 4 months monthly salary of the mid class Briton, while in Bolehland, the average is around 18 to 24 months.
Means, if we buy one car for use up to 6 years, our Briton counter part can change new car every year! So, it is not difficult why "Do bad you complaint and bashing. Do well you also want to complaint and bashing" simply because P1 is SUCK! STOP THE BUYING, STOP THE SUCKING!
Joe Ooi Is Stupid said,
June 14, 2007 @ 10:29 pm
WTF is wrong with you? people are giving their opinion. not everyone is the same in this world. do you think other people think like how you think? do you think you’re the smartest? if u’re smart, u wouldnt be calling other ppl rubbish… u r sick! dont be too emotional!whenever theres a proton topic, some poor fellow gonna be called rubbish by you. low and some middle class people have no choice in buying cars. proton or probably perodua would probably be the most expensive car there get into. they cant even afford to buy over 60k cars. if they could afford to buy even a civic/altis or 100k+ cars, they wouldnt be loving proton….
sorry for this. im just sick of seeing joe ooi calling other ppl rubbish and cheap
————————
Dear rebadge honourable "Tan Sri Joe Ooi": –
1. With over 1,000 comments posted in PT.org, which comment that I said other is rubbish! Show me the proof?
2. In which comment I said that other have ot accept and/or I ask other to think the way I do?
3. "u r sick! dont be too emotional!whenever theres a proton topic, some poor fellow gonna be called rubbish by you" and "sorry for this. im just sick of seeing joe ooi calling other ppl rubbish and cheap"
– show me which previous comment I said so!
Failing to show to proof your claim within 24 hour. Then it is resonably and to defense myself from this unwarranted accusation, I shall fairly hypothesize on you on the following: –
1. You make senseless and unfound statement for the sake of "self-ego".
2. You may need doctor attention, as you are "just sick of seing joe ooi".
3. You may inflicted by "emotional inteference" for reason best known to you. But in order to release you tension, you pick someone like me at your whim and fancy as your "punching bag".
4. Your statement is riddle with "uncontrol hatred", "self-create anger" and "self-inflicted mental illness" by cock talking with malicious intention to inflict irreparable damage toward me!
Good luck to you to proof that you are right!
that's the problem in malaysia, ppl like joe ooi who wants p1 to be good kena bash, cant u c ppl are complaining becoz they can see there are too much "improvement" can be made for the p1..
like: the top management allows the workers to say it's proton ma, wat u expect when we sent our p1 to service (in short useless, they sure know how to break the heart for someone who support them)
yet someone already very satisfied, when p1 is pretty obviously, operates very badly, somehow they can create their own history telling ppl p1 is doing well, protecting p1 in an unrational way( they sure know how to breed an ultimate spoilt brat), telling ppl if u dont like malaysia, pls out when the one who criticised is the one who really love malaysia just like u..
u dominate and u never listen to the others voice, doing thing watever u want (that's why so many ppl hate u p1 & of coz it's mother the G)
Well to tec96248, I didn't say "….can’t live in malaysia just because of unhappy with one product?" please read my previous post clearly. I said "….Like BMW, talk BMW. Like Mercedes-Benz, talk Mercedes-Benz etc. Don’t like Malaysia, don’t stay in Malaysia." Sorry if it is to harch for you. Because some people don't like Malaysia (they ownselves say so), but still stay here.
To digiman. What I want to say is the way of bashing. I don't mind if the comments politely and are based on facts. Please don't be like some people saying people stupid, idiot, and so on. Perhaps not in this blog but others. As I mention before the four U.S. auto makers also doing quite bad – losing money, but have we heard they bashing their own auto maker better to close shop like we do in Malaysia?
One more thing, do you think our cars will going to sell cheaper without Proton or even just a car assembler / rebadge like the Perodua, Naza and Inokom? For my point of view no. If Proton sucks money, how about Perodua, Naza and Inokom? Lets forget about the quality itself. As many people talking about Proton and NAP suck Malaysian people's money.
Those questions not to agaist anyone here. Just want your rasional and polite point of view. Thanks.
Actually, the US auto makers were bashed mercilessly, by the US auto press and Americans themselves during their worst times. And a lot of families who were loyal customers for generations began to buy Japanese cars and loved the quality. And they told their friends about them. So the US companies were punished by losing market share. Having competition has forced the US automakers to improve though, and the quality and design of American cars has gotten a lot better as a result.
If the US had instituted a NAP-type tariff back in the late 70s (as some lawmakers and manufacturers wanted) when imports were just starting to make inroads, American cars would probably still have the poor design and bad quality they were famous for in the 1980's, with no incentive to improve quality or lower prices. Sound familiar? :-)
dont get all pumped up and make all our days worst by bashes everyday……its like making our days a little less happy……
Digiman I totally agree with you I too was in Korea for 11 days and one thing I noticed is people are proud of their countries products. They choose Korean cars and the differences I tell you is not much in comparison to an imported car. Unicon your in a dream world my friend, I dont even know if you live in Malaysia or have ever owned a Malaysia car. Do you realise that we pay as much for a car as a home, 100k for a decent car could buy us a home. Working class people now a days have to bare the cost of a home and a car which cost as much. And most because of this protectionism which is only hurting our people and benefiting your friends in Hull.
Come on, think about it ! Look at Paul's previous posting on Proton sales locally down 40% people in Malaysia are choosing importers over foreign cars and you got the cheek to tell us to move abroad if we dont like Proton. Some dont have a choice.
Do you think we like our tax payer dollars going down the drain into useless / crappy unprofitable organisations like Proton ?
Grow up and form a proper opinion.
americans no need to complain or bash thier own companies, they just launch law suits.
if u launch a law suit at proton in malaysia it will be dismissed based on the fact that this is malaysia…live with it. (and some like one guy above would say…get out).
with proton around…cars will never be cheaper. with proton not around at least there is a chance for the market to decide the price.
aiyoh
getting out of hand here..
Unicons brother.. with regard to the tariff being removed.. with regard to the last paragraph you posted.. the uplift or status quo of the tariff is hard to say because its a malaysian mentality… its there.. it benefits me… why remove?.. now the ME here is the government ok? not me…
anyway, it has been implemented, now make the best use out of it… go cuti cuti malaysia ker… or travel overseas ker… shiok shiok abit la… don't la let the NAP let you down…
#
The Unicons said,
June 15, 2007 @ 8:36 pm
Well to tec96248, I didn’t say “….can’t live in malaysia just because of unhappy with one product?†please read my previous post clearly. I said “….Like BMW, talk BMW. Like Mercedes-Benz, talk Mercedes-Benz etc. Don’t like Malaysia, don’t stay in Malaysia.†Sorry if it is to harch for you. Because some people don’t like Malaysia (they ownselves say so), but still stay here.
To digiman. What I want to say is the way of bashing. I don’t mind if the comments politely and are based on facts. Please don’t be like some people saying people stupid, idiot, and so on. Perhaps not in this blog but others. As I mention before the four U.S. auto makers also doing quite bad – losing money, but have we heard they bashing their own auto maker better to close shop like we do in Malaysia?
One more thing, do you think our cars will going to sell cheaper without Proton or even just a car assembler / rebadge like the Perodua, Naza and Inokom? For my point of view no. If Proton sucks money, how about Perodua, Naza and Inokom? Lets forget about the quality itself. As many people talking about Proton and NAP suck Malaysian people’s money.
Those questions not to agaist anyone here. Just want your rasional and polite point of view. Thanks.
==hmm…..i didn't mentioned u say so, i m questioning u about it. it did indicate such a manner. people complaining about a product and suddenly why mentioned country? need not apologize to me but to others, mate. it's very subjective and yet sensitive to talk about dislike it. get it?
by the way, cars might be cheaper with or without proton or other national makes, if were managed well. so it's very wide open to be discussed, there's pro and con. question or answer??
u didn't hear the way the others countries bash their own makes doesn't mean they don't. hmm…..haha. u should enjoy here…..
Hope it does go well. I don't like the idea and cannot understand why talks are held all over like in NY, instead oh VW/P1 home country. That act too is a waste of money, RAKYAT's money
free vacation of course. once they've made it to all the tourist destinations on their wish list, then we might finally hear something concrete.