Proton has secured a deal to supply fully built-up (CBU) Proton GEN2 cars to Youngman Automobile Group Ltd Co. to be sold in China. The agreement was signed between Proton Managing Director Dato’ Syed Zainal Abidin Syed Mohamed Tahir and Youngman through its Chairman, Pang Qingnian.
The deal involves a minimum of 30,000 Proton GEN2 CBU cars that wil be rebadged in China under the brand EUROPESTAR and eventually Youngman and Proton (through Lotus Engineering) will be developing a new range of EUROPESTAR cars together. This supply contract is for a period of 20 months from the date of the first delivery of vehicles.
I think it’s best that the underlying components of these new EUROPESTAR cars use component sharing with Proton cars, that way the economies of scale for both Youngman’s EUROPESTAR and Proton can improve together. From what I understand, the deal involves technical licensing of the GEN2 platform as well as the CamPro engine for future EUROPESTAR cars.
Proton MD Syed Zainal says these are landmark win-win agreements as it would enable Proton to sell its products and commercialise its technologies in China through Youngman for their brand of passenger cars in a huge market with promise of exponential growth. Imagine, the Chinese auto market is already huge as it is, yet in reality Chinese car ownership is only at 1% of it’s population and is set to grow by 20 to 30% annually.
“We are therefore positive with the prospects and export optimisation that will result in production volume increase at the Tanjung Malim plant. We are equally optimistic of the opportunities in commercialisation of PROTONs technologies and intellectual property rights,” added Syed Zainal.
However, in Proton’s announcement in Bursa Malaysia, it stated that the relationship of Proton and Youngman is one of independant contracting parties and shall not be construed as creating an agency or partnership between the parties.
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Europestar GEN2 gets “unique” styling
Lotus gets Jinhua Youngman engineering deal
they should rebadged it to bolehstar instead of europestar and please stop saying that 'lotus engineering' word. very disgusting!!!
we dun even wan to buy china cars and so dun think that chinaman will buy p1. they be better use back their cars since our p1 is also very expensive and cheap quality.
if the sales in china also very poor then the only solution will be close p1.
Why is Lotus Engineering disgusting? Why would the chinese not want to buy the GEN2 based solely on the fact that we do not want to buy their cars?
well. i know that now lotus is bought by p1. i very like lotus car but please dun put the lotus engineering word behind p1 car. although p1 buy lotus but is it not necessary to do like this. for me i think that they just wan to cheat the buyers how good their car is, how good their handling is. that's terrible.
PTAllTheBest, you can say what you want dude, but the chinaman already bought the cars. so how do you explain that?
as for lotus engineering, just a tip for you.. the new skyline GTR's ride and handling is tuned by lotus. so whats the problem with that? or is it just you that finds it disgusting?
yeah. actually only me find that its disgusting. i dun know that the GTR handling is tuned by lotus. although it is but did they put the lotus badge behind it??? i'm very curious. if they didn't put it and the GTR can sell well, it is already prove the GTR is capable to achieve its target. and there is no need to say about p1 like satria gti which didn't sell well even with the badge behind.
When you report, you must do so without letting emotions get into the way. I understand you're not happy with the Lotus badge being put on the Satria GTI, but this news is nothing to do with badges. Lotus Engineering will be assisting Jinhua Youngman's Europestar in developing their new cars, as in the MoU signed earlier, so it is the truth. I don't see the rationale behind your request.
Refer to MoU news earlier:
http://paultan.org/archives/2006/11/26/lotus-gets…
30,000 units over 20 months contractual period. Average per/month 1500 units. But nature of chinese eventually kinda demanding while purchasing anything. I think price tag will be key points of success in Big Land as stepping stone. P1 had being posting losses these few quarter.
However as comparison from other GLC, there will be major reduction of operation cost to curb these losses. So far, i didn't see anything action being implemented/plan to do so. This is business world, not about giving kind heart or having extra expenditures. It's doubtful for myself how they run the business.
Sincerely i'm not the person on the position to comment anything, its just my 2 cents. Take it or leave it. Good Luck ~
For reference
www.apucc.org/documents/PR/Press-BusinessChina.pd…
Here stated that Youngman will have initial capacity of 50,000 units.
proton owns lotus… for other brands, its different.
Take nissan as an example. They are a huge worldwide brand.. the last thing they wanna do is admit that their cars are tuned by somebody else. and by putting a lotus badge on a GTR, it dilutes not only the nissan, but the GTR brand.
as for the Satria Gti, what gave you the conclusion that it didnt sell well? for a niche 2 door hatchback from a tiny manufacturer, it sold decently. It is a car that till today in markets like the UK and Australia, has a loyal following of fans. It is still by far, the most iconic model ever from proton.
and whats wrong with the car having the lotus badge? it was and still is a very good handling road car.
Wah so fast, so many post laio.. Seem like each P1's article nowadays like hotcake.
ok. understood. comments and advice received.
mofo, just because we didnt see with our own eyes actions like you have said being done/implemented doesnt mean nothing is being done.
if proton were really dying and struggling, i dont think they would have 2 new models of their own in the pipeline, with protoypes already testing on public roads clearly for all to see, let alone announce a big business deal in china. 2 new models developed from the ground up, we're looking at almost RM300-400 million in development costs each. it does seem like there is really a plan to turnaround.
i still think this is great news for proton. but i suppose, to many, even if proton were to post a profit next quarter, and successfuly turn the company around, many will still be critical of it.
Thanks for reminder, BMW
As usual. just wait and see how.
hope P1 will sell well in China
P1 had made apperance in Taiwan and Hong Kong with thier Gen2 and Savvy…
Why "Lotus Engineering", because it is UK based firm!
Why not "Proton Engineering"? Because Proton lack of Engineering/Technology!
Why Proton City? Because in Japan there is Toyota City?
Why not Lotus City or "Proton handling"? Also because they don't have it and simply what they have is locally don't have something that is world class standard!
PTAllTheBest, do you get the point! If Youngman make EUROPESTAR sell better than Gen-2, so be it, we may witness local variant of "bolehstar"!
just wait and c. in mainland there is so many competitors including the korean. do u think p1 will sell well there? i dun think so. there is so many cars cheaper than p1.
Well, it has all to do with branding and public perception.
Eg. The Honda Fit was renamed the Jazz in Europe as "Fit" meant something like vag1na in some european dialect. Then market research found that Jazz was also more appealing to drivers in the asean region.
Lotus is a world renowned brand. Proton spent millions to buy it partly to get it's reputation and branding. I see nothing wrong with that.
Name it MalaysiaBolehStar if it appeals to chinese people. But obviously it does not. And EuropeStar must appeal somehow to the chinese mindset (although it sounds cheesy to native english speakers).
I have a feeling it will not be a budget car in China.
Ok, not a BMW or a merc, but above local chinese manafacturers like Chery.
Also note that Proton models dont have the "common-ness" dilemma in China… that air of commonness it has in malaysia. I've spotted a few gen-2's here in Australia… They look pretty good next to the all too common Yaris', mazda3's, and astras'.. Wouldnt have said that in malaysia.
If anything, there is a growing middle class in china, aiming to out-cheap the already cheap chinese cars is not an option. I have a feeling it will be marketed as a middle class small car.
yeap. i get the point now. its about world class that we dun hv. btw, i just wan to ask that where is proton city??? a place with a junk of unsold p1 cars.
To Chinese, VW like Polo is consider as "middle class small car". There is virtually nothing to compete and nothing to protect P1 in Dragonland. "Bare bone" go in = still "naked" come out!
Toyota City is world class car manufacturing centre with the best Toyota system well recognize not only in auto sector, but become th envy of all manufacturing all over the world!
Proton City is formerly located at clearing secondary jungle leasehold 99 year land with desgin capacity to produce 1 million cars. Currently produce Gen-2 and Savvy which shall be less than 50K annually!
You think this Youngman won't rip off Gen-2 if it is saleable in China. Look at Chery QQ and Chevrolet Spark, look at Smart for two and the Chinese copycat!
Either it won't sale (likely scenario) or if saleable, it will be copycat and Proton won't get no royalty for whatever classified under Intelectual property or copyright!
if they can really sell 30k units of gen2 there, that's not bad at all..
wanna turn it to left hand drive…..see what uit can turns out…….
positive move
finally, proton is comin 2 china market.
sure can sell bcos d quality is more or less d same wit some chinese carmaker.
hehehhe
thanks to Damien Chia and friends for sculpting this g2
oh now i remember the name Damien Chia…he said that the gen2 got some emotional lines to it……
Gen2 – the first ever model from P1 that I liked on the first look… good choice, hope it will make it big in China.. good luck Proton!!… after all, it's a product of our own, not some rebadged and repackaged Mitsu.
good move Youngman indeed.
50K? that's just too low target i think.
Estimated China population is about 1.4 BILLION, got 0.05% buyer is enough!.
no.. that's too much :D
Maybe later, all campro CPS engine will be pirated by china auto.. But that's an OK lah.. cheap and more sparepart.. (quality?)
Good move for this time.. as it wasn't easy to enter China market..
Good place to dump old stocks ('04~'06)… good for us too since we might get newer batches. Muahahahaha!
My opinion:
I think, the name Europestar sounds funny. Or maybe, the word 'Proton' doesn't sound as appealing as 'Europestar' in China. However, a decent move for entering the Chinese market. Probably it can attract more new car buyers in China, and they will have more choices of makes. As mentioned in the article, car ownership in China is set to grow from 20% – 30% from its population annually.
Yes China car demand growth exponentially, but the out put for foreign and local brand combine by 2010 is expected to reach around 20 million units. Local demand is expected to take up 10 millions only. Log on below, the China car sales is expected to reach 8.5 million unit in 2007: –
http://press.arrivenet.com/autos/article.php/9851…
So what to brag about selling 50,000 unit over 20 months period? Or if prorate is approx 0.35% of the volume. By 2010, there is excess capacity of 10 million car for export from China. China assemble foreign car or indegenous local brand will swam all over the world, and beware it will reach our shore in large volume as well! Don't expect their consumer will taste outdated tech just like we are force even to buy stone age milo tin on the wheel.
We still have very "wrong" perception about China make on low quality issue simply because the importers is imporitng low budget entry level sub-compact car like Chery QQ and rebadge Naza Sutra. If there is no crappy NAP, sure there is the like of Shanghai-VW car reach our shore!
This agreement thiggy about Proton export will be "shortlive" as previously they experience in exporting to many developing countries including middle east as it is "one-off" or no repeat order scenario!
lotus engineering is good. proton cars don't look bad. quality ain't exactly horrendous compared to chinese cars (except gen2) PROBLEM ?
Mentality of proton = which resembles much of malaysian government.
i think proton improving now… they start to get the feedback and are trying to revamp, however with our government in the way (which hadn't felt the need for any improvement) proton was stifled to suffer a slow revamping.
Hmm… seems that china is taking a lot of interest in malaysia.. yesterday i think loan 2nd penang bridge 50 million? now, sign proton 4 cooperation? i smell fishy in here.. is the china base company got malaysian in it? i think i have 2 dig harder.. financial n sales so bad still sign? sure really fishy.. doing show for VW to see p1 still great? Hmm.. think hard man… sure fishy.. i smell a lot of big fish inside.. n i bet those cars wont be fitted with new campro cps.. maybe even saga material's will dump into it..hmm… think..
anyhow.. the car sell in china sure be cheaper then us, coz their tax is less then us.. so dont jealous about the car price when come officially..
LittleFire85 said,
"financial n sales so bad still sign? sure really fishy.."
————–
Bespoke statement …………
Quite possibly one of the worst name to put on a car. I'm talking about "Youngman" name not Europestar (hey at least the gen2 was penned by a bunch of europeans in Norfolk). If there's one thing worse than chinese cars in this world, it's chinese car companies name.
When analyse Proton , you must look beyond the obvious. Their priority is not profit but some hidden agenda:
push up share price
wield more bargaining power against VW
Well, they translate directly from Chinese.. Dont blame them.. I know their Chinese name, quite nice..
If mainstream brands like VW are adults, Proton is still a child. Merely 20 odd years old. 50,000 cars, assuming they are sold at RM30k… Works out to RM1,500 million of national revenue in 20 months.
The money will come in the form of a currency that is undervalued – hence it should become more valueble in the long run.
The local industries it supports. Our economy will undoubtedly benifit.
True, China has excess car production capacity – but the cars are not quite up to standard yet. I have a few friends at the halls of residence over here in Australia that come from china. They say the local cars (eg chery) are cheap but not much good and very very unsafe. CBU cars still dominate the middle class market in china. That's why foreign makes are doing so well in China.
Proton stands a real chance in china. I think the chinese company is doing what some companies are already doing – rebadging foreign makes. Ultimately, this could provide proton some kind of presence in china – opening p the possibility of expansion there in future.
Naza rebadge the Kia models as their own…
Inokom also make the same way with Hyundai models…
Perodua make it too with Daihatsu (at least P2 make contribution)
Youngman want to rebagde Proton Gen2 as Europestar Gen2?
Go on man.. Proceed.
It's a business. So the business is making money.
To Chinese, VW like Polo is consider as “middle class small carâ€. There is virtually nothing to compete and nothing to protect P1 in Dragonland. “Bare bone†go in = still “naked†come out!
___________________________________________________________
The polo is a small car. The size of a savvy. I've been to china a few times, and IMO, VW cars have the problem of "commonness". Much like proton has the same image problem in malaysia.
Nothing special about the Polo other than it's badge. It's a barebones underpowered car. In basic spec it doesnt even come with power windows… yet (in aust) costs the same as a midrange Jazz. User reliability surveys show it's not up to par with the jap makes yet.
The gen2 is a different sized car. Should go up against the Golf. (not the GTI.. the plain jane 1.4/1.6L Golf). It will be cheaper than the Golf i believe, considering in Australia the VW Golf costs at least RM85,000 otr. The gen2 will therefore be more affordable. It has to be and it can realistically be so. IMO, it looks better too. It's all about "commonness". The gen2 will be the unusual 'exotic' car over there in china. While the Golf will have the 'commonness' image problem protons have in malaysia. Looks are subjective. But non-common cars will always look subjectively better (unless you're talking bout the fUgly Juara). Subjectively, i have to say the gen2 looks alot better than the Golf – and that will be a selling point, along with the Lotus branding.
Assuming the chinese govt is fair on tarrifs, I'd say there is a fair chance the gen2 will be competitive. The company involved must have done their research before making a commitment to order 50,000 cars.
There are lots of benefits to Proton especially when the gen2 already on China road and after market. Wait and see. I can see already coz gen2 so uniqe. malaysian first design and engine.Good move by proton. Cheers !!
I got a feeling that Lotus Engineering is going down the drain under Proton Management, just like most of the GLCs, its going down the drain. What is most valuable in Lotus? P1 never understand.
Instead of helping chinaman developing cars that can compete, why dont Lotus take a 'simple' task, to help improve the quality of Proton cars? Isnt patching up the big hole on their sinking ship more important than looking for another ship to hop into ?
a good move IS a good move.
can you accept that?
and remember… peoples taste are different!.
eg: Oiii love ferrari, but i'm not, even hate ferrari.
eg2: I love american muscle car, but if ezra said .. muscle is nothing..
so? can 'some people accept… that's people interest and taste never be the same. So? Whats wrong if 50K people in china buy proton?
anyway… savvy is cool car but uncool in its name. (on the topgear UK cool wall). ??? europestar??? The gen2 quit ok in look.. and remind, the exported car quality always better than our..
In the long run, if china can mass produce proton engine.. that's very good benefit for us. Quality? Oh come on.. we can order to figure it how and what!
"Better late than never"
"Better try before surrender"
"The cowardians always refuse to try.."
LittleFire85 said,
July 13, 2007 @ 11:32 pm
Hmm… seems that china is taking a lot of interest in malaysia.. yesterday i think loan 2nd penang bridge 50 million? now, sign proton 4 cooperation? i smell fishy in here.. is the china base company got malaysian in it? i think i have 2 dig harder.. financial n sales so bad still sign? sure really fishy.. doing show for VW to see p1 still great? Hmm.. think hard man… sure fishy.. i smell a lot of big fish inside.. n i bet those cars wont be fitted with new campro cps.. maybe even saga material’s will dump into it..hmm… think..
__________________________________________________________________________
You know why? It's results from a recent visit from one of our ministers to China. Why they visited china and came back with all sorts of this results that seems to reflect a positive vibe that Malaysian government is actually pro-chinese ??
Yes, 2008 is election year. With all of these bad comments about government's recent failure and bad policies, they sure have to do something to sway the votes that was splitted by educated malays between parti keadilan and umno. so by attracting chinese to vote the seemingly pro-china government, once again barisan nasional can reign supreme.
I think PaulTan once blog that even the Japs are considering to import the Gen2 into Japan. If it's good for the Japs, I think basically it's good for almost everyone on this planets(maybe some europeans excluded). 30k unit of cars over 20 months ? Considering the consumer power of China, the amount is so so so insignificant. What's with all the disbelief? Kelisa is one heck of a great K-car right? Why are we still seeing some Cherry QQ on the road? There are some ppl out there who always beg to be different. as the saying goes "One man's food might be another man's poison". So don't be the katak bawah tempurung. So set the record straight, I hate proton. I have problems with the delivery of my LMST after 3 months plus booking.
good also exporting cars through lotus name. they can get better quality than us. even chinese in dragonland also can get it with a cheaper price.
while we live here in bolehland only managed and forced to buy a lower quality with expensive price. they are treating us like a idiot.
ingolstadt u seem to get one point good in here.. but i dont think this will attract more Chinese to vote, coz China don't reconise other Chinese in foreign country.. Remember 513? Go read that book and you will know why now ur parents still vote for BN or UMNO.. Sometime politics is black man.. anywayz think of the good side, maybe our car will be cheaper coz of mass produce?
Thats a good start. Although 30k for a 20 month period is laughable for anyy auto manufacturer, i guess you still have to start somewhere.
Time to stop leaching from the rakyat and start growing some legs and finding your next dinner somewhere else.
As for PTA, what is wrong with Lotus tuning Protons? Or Proton using the Lotus name. Yes I agree that it might be a tad overused, but its no secret that they Lotus had an involvement. Even the Koreans has "Porcshe" tuned cars. Wont that even be more of a stretch? Lotus is not only a sports car manufacturer. They are also very largely an automotive engineering consulting firm.
You probably wont know this, but I remember a very very prominent "Tuned by Lotus" Badge on both front fenders and a trunklid of a Isuzu Impluse RS Turbo AWD. At that time, it was one of the best handling small "sports cars". Lotus at its best, I would say. Nearly bought a good used one. Was 2 hours too late.
The GTI is still one of the better handling cars we have.
ezralimm said,
July 14, 2007 @ 12:10 am
If mainstream brands like VW are adults, Proton is still a child. Merely 20 odd years old. 50,000 cars, assuming they are sold at RM30k… Works out to RM1,500 million of national revenue in 20 months.
—————-
We don't need the mathematician , accountant or rocket scientist to make conclusion whether it is national revenue or LIABILITY:
Assuming Europestra selling at RM 30K per unit, the additional LIABILITY the rakyat have to bear are: –
Since P1 bad biz model is selling high quality car at lower price in export market, and selling junk metal at high price in bolehland.
50,000 units x (RM 45k – RM 30K + RM 5k logistic) = RM 1,000 million. So, the P1 have RM 1 billion loss in revenue, therefore transfer into its balance sheet is RM 1 billion + current loss around RM 600 m.
Who to bear this cost, tax payers monies again! It is better P1 offer Gen-2 with export quality to local at RM 30K, likely scenario is P1 can sell perhaps more than 50K unit minus the hassle of export encumbrances!
Dragonland car industries are cut throat dog-eat-dog market in which virtually the prices is in respond to market forces. Log on below: –
http://www.china.org.cn/english/BAT/86452.htm
Our most economical entry level sub-compact car Perodua Viva selling at around RM 26K, but in China the same class of car can be sell as low as US$3,980 (RM 14K).
ezralimm said,
"IMO, it looks better too. It’s all about “commonnessâ€. The gen2 will be the unusual ‘exotic’ car over there in china. While the Golf will have the ‘commonness’ image problem protons have in malaysia."
———–
In marketing jargon, they call it as nitch market. Mass produce car won't be "exotic" with exception of MINI cooper iconic small car. Gen-2 won't achieve any phenomenon "exotic" car as per your perspective! Ferrari, Roll-Royce, etc only achieve this coveted status!
bmpower said,
July 14, 2007 @ 1:54 am
a good move IS a good move.
can you accept that?
and remember… peoples taste are different!.
————
If it is a good move, then do it in favor of tax payer, selling Gen-2 with export quality to rakyat at RM 30K! Can you accept that?
So, if peoples tast are different, dismantle crappy NAP and let market forces determine the price, let the rakyat have widest choice possible with products they can buy that got value for monies. Can you accept the reality of free market! Don't dream that NAP is permanent feature in Malaysian auto market that provide lifetime sucking machine for cronies to suck blood monies to enrich themselve!
bmpower said,
July 14, 2007 @ 1:54 am
eg: Oiii love ferrari, but i’m not, even hate ferrari.
eg2: I love american muscle car, but if ezra said .. muscle is nothing..
so? can ’some people accept… that’s people interest and taste never be the same. So? Whats wrong if 50K people in china buy proton?
—————
Nothing wrong if 50k people in China buy Proton. It is already if 500K people in China buy Proton. It is even "spectacular" and somethig to proud of if and only if P1 practice good biz ethic. If Europestar selling at RM 30k, then it is something big sin! The rakyat "become second class apartheid customer" force to buy low quality at higher price, yet let foreigner to enjoy our tax payer monies!
It is already if 500K people in China buy Proton.
——–
Shall be read as "It is alright if 500K ……"
one day the chinaman will come out a model the sam as what P1 have….than they will go hair wire……hhahhahhahhahh
bmpower said,
July 14, 2007 @ 1:54 am
“Better late than never†– KICK OUT THE NAP/PROTONOMIC MENTALITY
“Better try before surrender†– KICK OUT THE CRONIES VENDORS
“The cowardians always refuse to try..†– P1 ALWAYS REFUSE TO TRY
"Embrace free market, good biz practice, R & D for innovation, be competitive."
"Then conquer the whole world market just like Toyota to bring back Yuan, Yen, USD, Aus Dollar, Sing D, GBP, etc to enrich bolehland."
"Don't try to act like jaguh kampong in the name of "national car', "pride" and "patriotic".
If Gen-2 with export specs aka Europestar selling at RM 30k, it will be like selling goreng pisang panas in Malaysia.
some more Chinese car company , our economy is really bad…
Many people say this is a good move, but I say this is only a good dream….the assumption here is that Proton is making decent quality car right now, but sadly, this is not the case. They dont realise how bad they are, and dream to become international.
This is a big break that Proton needs. I hope they succeed.
There's no guarantee that the venture will be successful but there is no reason why it should not be. Proton should go for volume and not P&L. Gross contribution is good enough, as it will reduce cost of production on a per unit basis. Who knows, it may even benefit Malaysian buyers in the long run.Good luck!
whether the p1 sales in china is good or bad i dunno but i believe the quality of p1(europestar) in china will b much better than here( bolehland). Due to the protection from G, they have been taking it for granted. End of the day we rakyat all suffer.
joe ooi,
you have started again!!!haha
everything need a beginning…Proton will sell well if they have attractive marketing strategy…so lotus is one of that..be proud that we own lotus!!
many malaysian talk bout technology and stuff like that but do u realize that cars brought to malaysia by main distributor never include most of their high tech stuff in our cars?cause our ppl are not really bothered..some dont even know what is abs,ebd,esp and etc…once i was in da workshop waiting for my car to be serviced..a young chinese guy came to repair his bmw 5 series
the mechanic said his brakes hv jammed and abs fuse is gone…and he ask him apa itu abs???so most people in this country are not aware of all this technology and will proton technology improve when we dont produce educated and innovative ppl??tell me?da mistake is our ppl…if we cant produce good engineers,designers and etc how can we blame it on proton??we so easily fooled by the G everyday and we still send tonnes of msg and flood not only paul tan's blog but every single blog that is available..but end of the day we are da same as the G…talk but no action!!!from football to car we are just not producing good stuff but the mistake is on us too!!how many parents have force their kid to play football or ask him how many goals he scored..all we do is ask how many A's?send them tuition after tuition!!when da kid wans to play football..parents say no..u will get tired,..then cant study!!and when come to education its the same…do engineering…do medicine and etc…parents will say dont work here la..salary low..go UK,go AUS go US…since many people say japan is good and etc now..why they are good???when they kena bom..all worked hard and bulit back what they lost..they never ran away to another country!!they never produce good cars from the beginning…every early 80's they were producing low quality products..if anyone have old car magazine plz check how the european writers bash them!!but today they one world number one manufacturer already!!u should be proud of what we achieve..toyota never produce VVTI after 20 year!!v already ahve CPS after 22 years!!so thing will come eventually just show your support..if you cant dont blindly bash our products cause there maybe someone frm china reading this paultan.org..dont simply say proton is the only car manufacturer who use outdated chassis,engine and etc…those who know bout car good enough should remember..once malaysia best seeling mpv..produced by toyota..UNSER was using engine which was developed on 1980's and chassis also around the same age!!WV still sell their golf mk1 in some part of africa and other old models and chassis in brazil and etc…because the people,their mentality and how they are proud bout country products!!weak people…low mentality..weak G so sure weak product la!!simple as that!!so blame ourselves!!hahaha
we have this NAP not only for proton!!!its for perodua too!!so who gain??toyota la!!cause they own daihatsu and daihatsu own 51% of perodua so japanese are making easy money frm us..but we still buy them!!if perodua is selling so well why not they use the money to produce more good models??japanese are stingy!!they will never let it happen…so u care so much bout letting the money circulate in da country but 100K plus myvi owners is giving away money to japanese..obviously they can produce better car then!!!perodua viva is also using old platform..not a brand new1!!so again..another example how malaysians are being fooled by others!!haha but u see in japan..their automotive policies are even work than malaysian's!!u buy car u pay tax..u wanna sell also u pay!!this nap is created to help not only proton and perodua..but malaysians too!!if other makes are cheap…secondhand values will drop..then many might prefer to scrap their car like in japan,UK and us!!insurance will be high and most of us cant keep the cars as long as we like..so nissan sunny,toyota corrola seg,proton saga,perodua kancil and all will have to go scrap cause no value..end of da day we still loose alot than gaining anything…many in european countries in US suffer from this problem!!so its better to buy at higher price…so many will tink twice before making a decision and after 7 years we still can sell and or trade in to buy another car!!its just my opinion..haha…if other dont agree pls do comment!!
I smell a lot of ppl dont care about global warming.. Cars are a burden! They should be cheap! Not expensive!?! U calculate the money u loan? U calculate the money on fuel? U calculate the expenses of ur car service? Car only drop price and not up, it is widely mass produce.. It is not a property, property can kept as long as u want coz the value will always up. Cars are not forever, but land will be! Prem3377, u better study economy! If u want to blame is the G who set the tax high! Even proton they got tax, but at less.. The japs are just business, who dont want to earn more? just like P1 also want earn more, so many years saga still selling?!? from RM18k to RM27k now! How much they earn from 80' until now? Japs always change model by 5 years, how about us? Even SUV n MPV also P1 dont have.. All just sedan n hatchback… P1 management also stingy, so before u kutuk orang lain, kutuk ur own self first! Anywayz the scraping is ur own will.. Not force, so if u want to keep ur old car keep it.. Just that when something wrong wif ur car.. well spare part, Ehm.. $$$ n hard to find.. Even caburated 1.3L Saga engine are hard to find in half-cut shop already..
Joe:
RE: 30k price.
That was *hypothetical*. My point was, even if proton breaks even on the price of each car, the nation will stand to benifit due to the influx of chinese yen – a currency that is currently devalued and should rise in value in years to come. That said, I strongly doubt proton will sell cars for a loss in such numbers.
The Gen2 goes for about RM55k+ here in Australia… and i've seen a few around the city. So no, i dont think the chinese will get it cheaper than malaysians.
RE: "Niche" appeal.
I'm assuming you're referring to a "niche" market. As "Nitch" (in your post) carries a meaning irrelevant to this topic. My point simply was: Non-common cars will always look subjectively better than common cars within the SAME range/class/price. That's why i gave the VW Golf example. Why do you compare it to premium brands clearly out of it's league?
RE: USD4k (RM14k) car in China
Are you sure about that? My friends from mainland china say a 3dr Yaris is about RM80,000 while the Chery QQ typically goes for between RM22k and RM29k.
Joe:
50,000 units x (RM 45k – RM 30K + RM 5k logistic) = RM 1,000 million. So, the P1 have RM 1 billion loss in revenue, therefore transfer into its balance sheet is RM 1 billion + current loss around RM 600 m.
___________________________________________________________
My god, the way you count really astounds me.
The baseline gen2 is about 36k EXCLUDING OTR COSTS – since they are to be exported (hence i used the price 30k in my HYPOTHETICAL) – you'd assume a large order would get some kind of discount and be less than 36k.
Full bias on all prices. You seem to think that cars elsewhere are so cheap. When in reality even without NAP, a car the size of the gen2 will be around RM70-80k otr.
Then you point out the really cheap chinese car. Again, biased figures. Ask any mainland chinese about their opinion on this.
I call the readers of this forum/blog to question the perspective (or lack thereof) of posts that contain many 'generalizations' and theories. Fallacies of reasoning occur easily when one bases his paradigm on what is colloquially dubbed "hot air".
correction ^
"a IMPORTED car the size of a gen2 will be about 70-80k"
proton give them old stock and bring us new one…..
"We are equally optimistic of the opportunities in commercialisation of PROTON’s technologies".
are those like CPS and VIM. look very normal to me. does not count as technologies.
Dear Paul Tan,
Kudos to Proton, the first major move that they should do 10 years ago. Dato Syed Zainal is different from TM (TM actually wanted to spent RM2billion from Proton/rakyat's money to have factory in China!). He surprised us again with the new partnership.
First, we should know who is Jinhua Youngman (http://www.yo-man.cn/).
Youngman produces/assembles MAN trucks, so their are serious partner. Their ambition to enter passenger car market but they don't have any expertise. So they are looking a partner that can realize their dreams. And then, they found Proton/Lotus. Have you seen advertisement in recent month that Lotus Engineering Malaysia SB is looking for engineers that can speak Mandarin? Coz Lotus Engineering ambled to secure few projects from China's car manufactures. Now, it is China time, in mean time, they are looking into India. I heard they looking to open new offices in India. Hopes they will success. (Even though, few discussion have failed with Indian partners such as Mahindra)
So guys, what I can say that Proton & Lotus will benefited from the partnership for a long period.
Congratulation Proton!!!
LittleFire85 said,
July 13, 2007 @ 11:32 pm
Hmm… seems that china is taking a lot of interest in malaysia.. yesterday i think loan 2nd penang bridge 50 million? now, sign proton 4 cooperation? i smell fishy in here.. is the china base company got malaysian in it? i think i have 2 dig harder.. financial n sales so bad still sign? sure really fishy.. doing show for VW to see p1 still great? Hmm.. think hard man… sure fishy.. i smell a lot of big fish inside.. n i bet those cars wont be fitted with new campro cps.. maybe even saga material’s will dump into it..hmm… think..
—————————————————————-
yup…there's something going on when china got involved in he 2nd bridge project,give loan to M'sia (they said M'sia has a lot of money right now) and then suddenly, P1 also related to china market….hmm…who's the mastermind here…
eezarm.. australia is import from malaysia, so they might be expensive a bit. But now is China assemble in their country, dont u know their man power is cheap? When man power is cheap, so does the car… I think australia also got tax 30%..
Prem3377 said,
July 14, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
this nap is created to help not only proton and perodua..but malaysians too!!if other makes are cheap…secondhand values will drop..then many might prefer to scrap their car like in japan,UK and us!!insurance will be high and most of us cant keep the cars as long as we like..so nissan sunny,toyota corrola seg,proton saga,perodua kancil and all will have to go scrap cause no value..end of da day we still loose alot than gaining anything…many in european countries in US suffer from this problem!!so its better to buy at higher price…so many will tink twice before making a decision and after 7 years we still can sell and or trade in to buy another car!!
——–
It's flawed analysis to think that this system is beneficial to Malaysians. While used car values for shared models seem to be about double that of those in the US and other countries, the initial purchase price was also twice as much. So while the percentage of price inflation stays the same, the owner gets killed on the absolute value.
Buy an new accord for $50,000us in Msia, or $20,000 in US
after 10+ years or so, the Msian accord is still worth $10,000, the US only $5000
But the Msian owner has lost $40k in depreciation, the US owner $15k
Having loads of old sunnys, sagas, corollas, kancils as you mentioned isn't a good thing, it just shows how many people are trapped in their old car due to vicious depreciation and the high prices they had to pay in the first place thanks to NAP. It's very easy to trade in or sell a 7-year old car in the US no problem, and you wouldn't have had so much of your money tied up in it in the first place.
"We are equally optimistic of the opportunities in commercialisation of PROTON’s technologies"
i was thinking what are those technologies? CPS and VIM?
Europestar? its from MALAYSIA, and it also sounds like a sportschannel
jia you then….any nws bout BLM??
hope they'll do well in this venture coz it aint easy to penetrate into china market and compete with local players n other automotive giants. Good news from proton.
btw, europestar sounds a lot like Eurostar train to me.
The proton cycle of international news usually takes place around this time of the year, with some juicy news items being released of some impeding big overseas sales order. In Aug 2006, the news item was the about the 'success' of proton in the order for 3,000 wiras to be used as taxis in indonesia with 'hopes' for similar orders for other cities in indonesia in the near future. Must 'hooh-haahs' was made regarding the setting up of PT Proton Edar International Indonesia and of course, of the plant in Cikarang with a capacity of 50,000 vehicles a year.
Before the end of 2006, the entire news about the 'success' in indonesia suddenly fizzled out and no longer news worthy, with proton suffering losses in Q4 2006 onwards.
So, the 'news' this year is their sudden 'success' in securing a deal to supply CBU vehicles AND original spares to a China company… hmmm
I would wait and see… sounds like yet another juicy bit of news to drive the share prices up again.
China's Auto Policy As Stated In US State Department Document
"Under China's regulations governing the import of auto parts, all vehicle manufacturers in China that use imported parts must register with China's Customs Administration and provide specific information about each vehicle assembled, including a list of the imported and domestic parts to be used and the value and supplier of each part. If the number or value of imported parts in an assembled vehicle exceeds specified thresholds, the regulations assess each of the imported parts a charge equal to the tariff on complete automobiles (typically 25 percent) rather than the tariff applicable to auto parts (typically 10 percent)."
proton CBU they says??? I really don't think so…
expect a new proton's own v6 supercharged engine soon.. ;)
not sure for which upcoming car
ezralimm said,
July 14, 2007 @ 1:42 pm
Joe:
RE: 30k price.
That was *hypothetical*. My point was, even if proton breaks even on the price of each car, the nation will stand to benifit due to the influx of chinese yen – a currency that is currently devalued and should rise in value in years to come. That said, I strongly doubt proton will sell cars for a loss in such numbers.
—————-
With P1 bad biz of selling high quality car at lowest price for export market, and selling low quality at highest price for local market. Currently P1 export less than 20K units per annum, the ratio for local vs export market is approx 9:1. In this kind of ratio, it is still possible to cross-subsidy for different geographycal locations.
I hypothesize P1 selling to rakyat at sucking high price, take RM out of country and subsidize export market, given the "logical" lowest price with highest quality if including logistics cost! So, any NETT influx of Chinese Yen, as in the case of GBP, Aus D, Sing D, etc? I have the benefit of doubt on this and it is likely nett out-flow of RM.
If EuropeStar is sell in Dragonland lower than our dometic market, it is better to offer it to local and benefits rakyat to boost sell and regain domestic market share, just like it stone age Iswara & Savvy Lite.
ezralimm said,
July 14, 2007 @ 1:54 pm
Full bias on all prices. You seem to think that cars elsewhere are so cheap. When in reality even without NAP, a car the size of the gen2 will be around RM70-80k otr.
———
Aiya, live in protonomic fantasy island! Give you one more specific links: –
http://www.customs.gov.my/html/cbu2006warta.htm
This is info from G custome dept, not "ask ah hua – ah lian opinion". Go take calculator and digest how much NAP suck from us if you use selling price minus AFTA 5% tax (G revenue) and industrial profit margin of say average 5% to 10% for manufacturers!
This Europstar news is just like another "hot air" news like selling Wira to Indon to be use as taxi just to goreng-goreng share (maybe VW talk no longer effective), after few month, quite again. In future, maybe another "hot air" news pop up again – if CBU to dragonland, it is more sensible export to Thailand as well since they already AFTA complied – 5% tax.
ezralimm
Full bias on all prices. You seem to think that cars elsewhere are so cheap. When in reality even without NAP, a car the size of the gen2 will be around RM70-80k otr.
—————–
http://www.customs.gov.my/html/cbu2006warta.htm
Without NAP,
Camry 2.0G(ACV41R-JEPEKE) Car 1998cc is RM 58,581
AFTA tax (up to 5%) = 2,929.05
Since this mid sedan car is consider "luxury" in bolehland, Toyota make handsome Profits, say 15% = 8,787.15
OK lah say insurance + roadtax say RM 3,000.
OK lah, add all other "miscellaneous" cost (e.g. agent commission, distributor profits, import encumbrances, other duty, etc), another 20% = 11,716.20
So, OTR selling price for CAMRY 2.0G under free market (without NAP) = RM 58,581 + RM 2,929.05 + RM 8,787.15 + RM 3,000.00 + RM 11,716.20 = RM 85,013.40
So, this is the fair price in open market, and you can get this price range in Langkawi/Labuan!
Click on below to proof my point:
http://www.toyota.com.my/
CAMRY 2.0G OTR selling price: –
Labuan = RM 85,478.40
Langkawi = RM 85,001.70
How much NAP suck? = RM 149,038.10 – RM 85,478.40 = RM 63,559.70.
Wah, if I am specificaly Langkawian (generally me is Kedahan) I got 1 Camry 2.0G come free with 1 Waja!
The above example is very specific and within bolehland territory! I don't mentioned "this-part-of-the-globe-and-that-part-of-the-moon" car prices!
This is not "hot air" talk but must be very specific with proper link to make objective justification!
STOP THE BUYING! STOP THE SUCKING!
wah!!! NAP suck that much kah. thats why so many poor ppl driving junk p1 while those man can drive merc. poor malaysian.
Sheesh, do ya have to label ppl all the time?
Ok, so I speaking from a "protonian" point of view with full bias supporting "protonomics":
RE: Subsidizing price of protons in other countries.
My point was, even if we break even, or loose a bit, ultimately we still get an influx of foreign currency.
RE: Camry for RM85k
Yeah, the price of a camry should be about RM95k after GST (n/a in Labuan).
RE: Price of light 4dr car (gen2, golf, corolla, tiida)
I hold my ground on this one. The Honda Jazz listed on the govt site was about RM40k pre tax. The Honda Jazz on the malaysian honda site stated it was about RM70k in Labuan despite not being protected by NAP.
Then again, I will not make the generalization that there is a 75% tax even in the FTZs. What im trying to say is that there are other costs involved and not just the baseline cost of a car. (eg. a gen2 is only 36k but ends up being 45k otr). Personally, I'd suspect that without NAP, a Camry or Accord class car would cost in the region of RM100k otr – killing the ageing perdana unless Proton comes up with a new revision.
Here in australia (with only GST), the (locally assembled) Camry ranges from about RM95k to RM140k OTR.
What im trying to say is: Spreading the idea that a Camry would cost only RM60k without NAP could be quite misleading if you base your prices on that govt site that does not include other costs.
RE: "I hypothesize P1 selling to rakyat at ___sucking high price___, take RM out of country and subsidize export market, given the “logical†lowest price with highest quality if including logistics cost! So, any NETT influx of Chinese Yen, as in the case of GBP, Aus D, Sing D, etc? I have the benefit of doubt on this and it is likely nett out-flow of RM."
________________________________________________________________
P1 is selling cars to Malaysians at very very reasonable prices by any standard.
Sure, proton is protected by NAP, but it still goes through GST. And even then, the OTR prices are very low.
A gen2 only costs RM45k OTR (RM36k non OTR).
Bottom line: a car of similar weight to the gen2, imported, will cost about RM60-80k without NAP.
A gen2 costs about RM55-60k OTR here in Australia.
Guys,,when you start to question the NAP, meaning that you are questioning our system as well..'our' means dat our country anyway..and you have to understand that each decision is made for some reasons..If we look for a while to NAP, the objective is clear-cut where to maintain and protect our car industry..thats why they came up with some add-on 'meals' worth a WAJA's price for each CAMRY you book in..i dont really understand these days, there are still unprofessional-car-driver aka enthusiast around, which keep on questioning and comparing price at labuan and langkawi..the price tag there is clear; where the tax already deducted..if you all want to have that kind of price, go and move there anyway..but, still you like to be in KL…dont you?so you just appearing like a man with no firm principle..you questioning the matter that happened with a very good intention..
For P1, i believe they already started to move further..just improve the quality and evrything would be very fine…for P1 engineers and the team, forget the past so that you can face the future very well..but, the past must be taken into account while making any move then..i believe you all do have visions..maybe tons of it..cos theres no way on earth, a person who dont know what he wants..
by the way, dont get me wrong..i'm not P1 engineer or politician in the MITI office..and i'm dedicating the above statement to all malaysian..just each time before you want to start questioning about this price-mathematical-problem, close your eyes and think, "at the end of the day, who else want to be the "bodyguard' for P1 and P2, if not ouself?"
ezralimm
"P1 is selling cars to Malaysians at very very reasonable prices by any standard"…
but we also wanted good quality. i don think the rakyat mind buying a imported proton for RM 80 k if it is as good as honda city!!
but looks at Gen-2 engine, door, air con vents, gear box and etc… all r crap quality compare with Honda City, VIOS, Jazz, n etc…
P1 cannot sell us at reasonable prices base on current quality. they shu sell us at dirt cheap price says below 20 K for a new low quality Gen-2!!
hmm if u see NAP as protecting proton, erm, y cant u see it as, G using local car company to "earn" more income? in this case, i mean joe ooi and any other ppl tat see NAP is protecting rather than in a bigger picture, government getting more income. But if you look at another perspective, NAP actually helps in reducing increase of new car in Malaysia isn't it? ;) With a twist, NAP devil turns to angel, ironic isnt it? XD
Do you think government care about cars? with their salary they can get any car. I bet even without proton around, NAP will still exist!
So stop typing all those info like you know what to do, and do you want to have lebel for yourself joe ooi? just stop labeling, stop disrespecting others and eventually yourself from acting like talking "hot air" without any action that I can see on the road like a strike, you are just another guy that talk "air" without actual action to change things.
As for gen2 case, at least they do CBU in China at that price is quite good, as China have lower pay for their workers. So why not any1 look at our own people? Keep asking for lower price but you keep indirectly asking for higher price! I believe many will not understand my meaning, so let me explain. You want better price, but on the other hand, you also ask for raise in salary, and not just you ask for it, every working malaysian ask for it. Then whose the worker? Malaysian. So, in the end, cycle comes back to you to have higher price as people do business rarely want to rugi. What do they do? Increase price for their product or look for alternative in raw material for lower cost.
Any1 can reply to my point. As for political reason, all above are solely my own opinion, has nothing related to paultan.org and Paul Tan. ;)
At least this will help Proton make Gen2 a profitable model. In China with LHD, Gen2 can sell a lot of units if priced correctly.
RE: "but we also wanted good quality. i don think the rakyat mind buying a imported proton for RM 80 k if it is as good as honda city!!
but looks at Gen-2 engine, door, air con vents, gear box and etc… all r crap quality compare with Honda City, VIOS, Jazz, n etc…"
___________________________________________________________________
Will malaysians be willing to pay say RM65k for a gen2 (currently RM45k) car with better interior and build? I dont know… But yeah, i think proton should give it a try. Put leather seats ABS/EBD like the UK version while at it.
My month old jazz already has a minor front dash creeking problem. :-( And the plastics inside are mostly quite hard. I got a feeling most new cars come with lots of hard plastics. I personally tried the Jazz, Yaris, Mazda2 (top of the line Genki variant), Swift and Getz before settling for the Jazz…wanted to try the savvy, but couldnt find the dealer by public transport. Anyway, the plastics on the Yaris looked and felt the cheapest (sure, the external design is nice, but inside closeup it's a diff story). The Mazda had the best interior but exterior design was awful. The swift's interior was also very plasticky but smooth expensive looking hard plastic that looked really nice but had bad FC. So i ended up with the Jazz. And yes, it's interior is mostly plastic. The area around the handbreak where the cupholder is can be depressed with a pinkie finger(!).
ezralimm,
i totally agree with you…in term of materials used..most car manufacturers use similar kinda plactics and etc…dont miss understand and compare leather seat ,fabrics and all…i mean plactics…the gred of plastic used in jazz,gen2,yaris,vios,city and many other cars is the same…they have same properties and realibity…in layman's term that is!!!but the design really matters…where proton engineering set the pins to hold the dashboard..where the screw shud be and many other thing included..the power window design for proton waja was a mistake…proton engineers realized that…because is it design with metal and plastic component where the metal will expand more in heat and plastic tend to deform during high temperature..so this combination cause it to break easily at then point where the electric motor and pulley is situated..and another flaw was because the load is distributed just to three force points..adding another to extra distribution point would have saved protons name alot…but what i am try to say is,this is where experience come in hand…proton waja was the very first model made by malaysian engineers..so when gen2 was lauched the design of this thing were improved alot if u compare it to waja but the mentality of certain malaysian never did change and this never help situation and u still can c many malaysian that are unhappy because proton is going to china!!!proton's campro engine is not a bad design at all..it has a good performance..yah the low end torque were not so good because it using the gearbox which is meant for mistsu engines..but when the auto version of gen2 roll out..the engineers have improve the problem by changing the ratio of the gearbox so even well know magazine writers like chips yap have said it is better than the manual version and low end torque problem have been solved but many people still complain even if they never driven a gen2..that the sad part!!some said vim and cps is upcoming campro engine doesnt impress him cause its a common technology now but the fact is the common tecnology was and still a selling point for honda(vtec),toyota(vvti) and all other car manufacturers..so credit should be given to proton since they manage to catch up with technology when all the car manufacturer are frm developed country with great engineers and experience…plus world class working standard and many more…we in the other end still a developing country..we are learning and will keep on learning..so please stop bashing proton blindly..if the quality is bad then the complain is acceptable..but pls dont come up with own conclusion and assumption..we are lack in design,innovation and technology..but effort wise we are not!!perodua is selling well because they are selling toyotas..bodywork modification and calling them manufacturers is a shame..there is no effort shown actually..same goes to naza…my opinion is..i dont mind trying things myself rather than copying others and getting things done,if i do so..end of the day i dont learn anything…
if chinese in china is gonna get a proton car..please let them atleast try..and voice their own opinion of their proton products..dont stop them from even considering a proton by bashing blindly…
Hopefully they don't go reverse engineering the car and make a new car called dragonstar…
mystvearn said,
July 15, 2007 @ 8:08 pm
Hopefully they don’t go reverse engineering the car and make a new car called dragonstar…
—————————————————————-
Dont worry to much, there is no engineering at all to be reversed, the last Proton I bought new, the reverse gear also got problem, what engineering?
Dont expect a cook suddenly do better overseas after 25 years of making lousy food locally.
They should change the name of EUROPESTAR to LUCKYSTAR!
Just Lucky to sell off the car in China. Good Luck Proton.
Let Proton sell in China. They need to increase their overseas sales. If they succeed, then we know Joe Ooi is wrong. If they failed, then Joe can belanja all of us teh tarik. Relak lah Joe, takkan hari2 mahu gaduh. This is Paultan.org, not autoworld.com.my yang bosan and nak kiok tu. takde pekdah wa cakap lu. jangan marah!!
Ada yang merah padam muka sambil hati membara depan pc ni ..hehehe..
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t232/POCUK/GTIs/402.jpg
Infinitt said,
July 16, 2007 @ 9:33 am
just luck auctioncenter2u borned without try..how is that ??
———–
Look at P1 previous try for several years, their sales never reach 20K units for all models from Savvy, Gen-2, Waja, etc. that are export to all over the world. To export at prorate 18,000 units of single Europestar (Gen-2) to single market in Dragonland is highly optimistic given their P1 past sales performance all over the world!
So, to say it is “luck” by auctioncenter2u is highly probable if P1 want to achieve their target sales. If they try, the actual sales figure is always below target, even in domestic market. So let P1 try in Dragonland, who know as the Malay proverb said, “the luck is in the leg of chicken!”
Bigfoot said,
July 16, 2007 @ 3:47 pm
Let Proton sell in China. They need to increase their overseas sales. If they succeed, then we know Joe Ooi is wrong.
——————
Perhaps this is part of P1 export drive as if not mistaken, when MD SZ take over the helm of P1, P1 set a target to export 100K units per annum by 2008!
To auctioncenter2u and your comment "Just Lucky to sell off the car in China."
if this is luck, then everyone can win the lottery la. i think its really sad that such comments are made so cheaply with not much intelligent thought gone into it.
to do business in china today is extremely difficult and challenging and not just for car manufacturers. Almost all of the largest manufacturers in the world have had countless problems even getting their foot in. Regardless of what others are saying in the comforts of their chair looking at their pc screen, I think Proton has done a great job in securing the business with youngman in china.
To BanyakMasukWorkshop said,
July 16, 2007 @ 9:15 am
Lucky means They had found YOUNGMAN joint with PROTON to help selling proton car at CHINA. Chinese are always good at BUSINESS.
LUCKYSTAR should be a better name than EUROPESTAR. Don’t you agree?
Hey mathew,
hahah….good one…..
Why cant we be optimistic………and have a decent opinion on all matters…whether agreed or not….
just luck auctioncenter2u borned without try..how is that ??
After this we can see chinese badge their cars with Proton emblems, just like ours do to their [email protected] & Proton = Mitsubishi.At least we put business ahead of our name. Discarded the Proton name is not a patriotic move but to make sure the national company profitable is very patrioritic.
I think Gen2 and the new Satria are pretty neat, design wise. Lots of foreigners told me they look very nice so they can be successful in the right market. Only problem is built quality and interior design. We are all familiar with the wonderful QC that Proton has and interior is a step backwards when everyone is building larger and more spacious cars. Now, if we are to compare Proton with the current Chinese cars we have here, I’m quite sure Gen2 will sell very well because Proton cars are higher quality! Not established giants like VW or Toyota but against Cherry, Geely and whatnot? I’ll put my money on Proton. The big question now would be whether Gen2 is going to be priced at Cherry/Geely or VW/Toyota level? That, would determine their success in China.
Prem3377, I find that many of your comments were made in a too generalised manner… so much so I have to respond in points.
1) Locals/Mechanics don’t know much about auto technology, especially ABS. I think you need to change your mechanic if he don’t know what an ABS is. Mine learned about it 10 years ago. Even girls nowadays knows more about cars. Maybe he specialise in fixing our favourite car?
2) Main distributor don’t bring in cars with high tech devices coz of Point 1. This is really laughable. Do you know that cars sold in Japan, US and Europe are always with basic system only? Everything else is optional. You have to select what you want. And why are basic fitted cars brought in? Because of G’s protection on Proton. Anything imported have higher taxes so distributors have to bring in cheaper models.
2-2) Don’t bring in high tech cars? If you check with most of those dealers who ship in Estima, Harrier and other Japanese imports, you’ll know that it’s always the G-spec or fully fitted units that sold the best. I don’t understand why you said they’re not brought in.
3) “if we cant produce good engineers,designers and etc how can we blame it on proton??” Haha!!! If we cannot produce good engineers, we just continue manufacturing Iswara until 2050? After 22 years, we still cannot get ANY good engineers? I know some brilliant Malay engineers working for Petronas in the Sauber team. I don’t know where Proton is searching for their engineers. OHHH, if we don’t blame proton, blame who then? My neighbour??? Ahh, I know, you mean to say the G… BUT PROTON IS THE G! Everyone knows that.
4) “proton’s campro engine is not a bad design at all..it has a good performance..”. So, if we can’t produce good engineers, who created the CAMPRO engine then??? Actually, the big question you should be asking is WHAT SORT OF EXPERIENCE AND KNOW-HOW does Proton have about engine design? Sauber engineering with Petronas funding was creating an engine for Proton use but when it’s almost completed, Proton rejected it and then went to work on their CAMPRO. Go figure.
5) “we in the other end still a developing country..we are learning and will keep on learning..so please stop bashing proton blindly”. Have you heard of Horacio Pagani? He’s an Argentinian. I don’t think Argentina is classified as developed. In 1992, he setup his own company in Italy with his OWN money and some funding from Juan Manuel Fangio. The 1st Pagani Zonda rolled out in 1999 and they are challenging Ferrari and Lamborgini in terms of performance and engineering excellence. He only had a few million dollars to start his company. Proton has used how many BILLION ringgit??? Money in the right hands can do a lot of things. So where is the problem with Proton?
6) “we are lack in design,innovation and technology..but effort wise we are not!!”. Effort ALONE is not enough, my friend. PUTTING THE RIGHT HEAD as the CEO is what we need. Someone with experience in the car industry. Someone like Carlos Ghosn. If only Proton can grow up and see that we are EMPLOYING a mat salleh instead of politicising that we will go back to collonial days.
7) “perodua is selling well because they are selling toyotas..bodywork modification and calling them manufacturers is a shame..”. Have you forgotten that PROTON IS ALSO DOING THE SAME??? Waja only came out in 2001… after how many years? 16 years of bodywork modification to Mitsubishi cars. Would you like to compare to say Geely? Manufactured their OWN DESIGNED CARS from DAY 1 in 1998?
Frankly, MOST MALAYSIANS are just plain frustrated with Proton because they have done MORE bad than good. Plain and simple. I know some bashes blindly but then again, can you blame them? Do you even know how many BILLIONS has been sunk into Proton??? And the many Billions we LOST because potential manufacturers decided to go Thailand BECAUSE OF PROTON??? Billions that can make Malaysia stronger but now, it’s weakening us?
yeah…taxstar or taxfree
KL-ATR, well said, actually Protonian support blindly, not bashers bash blindly!
Whatever, no matter etc. what Proton makes a move try to do better also some people will ??unhappy?? with it. Sigh………
Not doing will, they will say government using our money to help (that still can be accept)
They are trying hard to do better so that government no need to help them via our money also unhappy with Proton,???
first they need to do better inside before pursue outside country market. in bolehland oledi hv many bashers how bout others land. if dun wan assistant from G then NAP for what??? this baby p1 will always behave like a 5yrs kid even though over 20yrs in this industries.
bloody prince……..
no need to bash each other here..
come on…cool down…
europestar…
hehehe..sounds ambitious…
never heard that Gen2 is one of the popular cars in europe.hmm…
not even a glimps of a star for it…
europestar just sounds too much…
heheheh….
currently using satria neo and bmw e36,in fact have been using protons for more than 10 years,never experience major problems, only wear and tear which is normal,my satria neo already pass 5000km,only the first day the brakes felt wobbly,get it fix at proton service centre for free,enjoy driving it since..as for proton bashers..i’m a happy owner..
if there’s a perfect car,it wont’ be proton,toyota,bmw etc in fact non are perfect,every car is different in fact car reviews too are not perfect… Top gear gives a 5 star rating to Mini Cooper..!!!u guys figure out..and jeremy clarkson destroying a kelisa..i laughed because he really look stupid and claimed to be intelligent,thats what bashers do..try to be intelligent know it all and be popular..if proton xport gen 2 to china, why not?
MS -Muka Sotong comments all got deleted! He, he, he, he, …….. keh, keh, keh, ……….. so angry ah in front of computer screen with hot head, red eye like Gremlin punch the keyboard to release unrestraint geram-geram hate mail!
Let Gen-2 export to China is “genuine” commercial transaction. Not some sort like put up rosy news to goreng2 share or tie to China loan USD 800 million for Penang 2nd bridge!
emotional brings nothing man.. lets see what Proton can do. I believe SHe already wakeup from sleep.. hehe BRAVO PROTON. n dont let me down yah
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RM55k+ Proton in Australia? Within that amount you can buy quality oversea car in Aus. Proton in Australia's car magazine was rate the lowest in term of QUALITY. The lowest selling rate in Australia's newspaper. Even crashing test done by Engineers also show the most dangerous car. What else?
hmm….oh ya, car manufacturer in Aus are treating fare by government and you have freedom to choose your ideal car at reasonable price. Aussie always proud of their Ford and Holden car which are manufacture in Australia and widely used in government sector but Aus-G not came out with some tax to protect their local car manufacture when their selling rate is lower than Renault and Toyota.
Korean car such as Kia, hyundai and daewood cheaper than Proton and quality wise also better than proton. Even India car also better than Proton. So, what do you think proton can do? GTI is good? Come on, Can't even compare to Corolla TRD spec still dare to compare to VW? I had been driving many car from cheap to branded due to my job. So I experienced the difference in cars.
How long Proton established already? Still want to compare to those low budget China car? when you compare to the higher range quality China car, you know the difference.
You guys are not wrong for those Proton lover, is good Proton can enter international market but not only for short term. Proton must well use of their lotus engineers to improve Proton since lotus still well know in international market. Wondering why lotus still maintain their quality? Is it because of management team?
You think about it.