Ferrari is back on the top of the F1 podium again, but the 1-2 finish led by Fernando Alonso at Hockenheim has attracted plenty of flak for “team orders”, which is banned. Indeed, the Scuderia was slapped with a $100,000 fine and the case is being referred to the World Motor Sport Council (WMSC). After the race, team boss Stefano Domenicali faced a press pack full of questions.
When asked to explain why this situation wasn’t illegal team orders, Domenicali said: “I don’t know if I have to explain to you what are team orders. What I can say from my side is that if you are referring to the situation we have in mind, we gave an information to Felipe about what was the situation.
“Because we have already seen in the past that certain situations could not give the best result to the team. That was the information we wanted to give and we leave the drivers to understand and take notice of it in order to make sure the team, in terms of the global results, gets the best.”
The hacks pressed on, asking the chief if yesterday’s situation was any different from Austria 2002, where Rubens Barrichello was infamously ordered to let Schumacher pass and go on to win the race. “Honestly, I don’t know. What we said to him today was an information about the situation behind. That is what we said today,” he replied.
But didn’t Massa’s engineer Rob Smedley apologise to him? “It was not an apology this way. You have to consider the fact, and you can check with his communication on the radio several times in the past, that Rob Smedley’s is correctly in a very good conjunction with Felipe. This is the key of their success. He gave the information to Felipe and he saw what happened and he was not happy about the situation of the car that was not so fast – sorry – was slower than the other one,” was the reply given.
What do you think of this incident? Was Ferrari wrong in giving Alonso, who has a better chance of challenging for the title than Massa, a shot at the main prize?
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i hate to say it… but Alonso had the faster car… or at least was driving faster than Massa…
nothing different from the 2 maclarens in Turkey… where the team boss said something to the effect “both of you are safe, conserve” which meant “do not overtake lewis”
its survival
If Alonso was faster, so there was a car and a track; He could come and overtake like a man not like a timid lier…
definitely not good…
Could be a tough decision, especially since Alonso is the one with higher standing points prior to the race. But honestly speaking, Ferarri is highly unlikely will win this year’s championship. It’s between Red Bulls and Mclarens.
to me, whatever u do,u have to work hard..
for alonso, he should have a natural fight with massa..
its not going to be a good relationship between both drivers for now..
common la..u want to win,work for it..
Ferrari oh Ferrari…. how about just leaving the racing to the race drivers?
Team orders sucks but it will never disappear from F1. As long as it’s a team event, there are bound to be team order.
It’s obvious… There is not need for explanation because the body language of the entire Ferrari team show there’s a team order. For Ferrari not being on podium in 1-2 finish for so long, you wouldn’t have celebrate in such a low profile way. No jumping and great cheering and shouting… The atmosphere feel so lame…
Read this article in Daily Mail & see Massa’s fed up look.
The post race interview was interesting, to say the least. Massa was asked to say in his own words the overtaking incident & all he said was “I was overtaken”. Normally, drivers would go into the details such as what gear, braking, racing line but Massa just stated the obvious, he was overtaken.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-1297585/Ferrari-pull-fast-Outrage-surprise-F1-hits-new-low-Fernando-Alonso-usurps-Felipe-Massa-Hockenheim.html
the prancing horse is back to its best!
Yeah, best at giving out ‘team orders’ .
other team also same…mclaren, bulls etc…
ferrari kuda tahi! how dare they shit on my beloved sport!
racing is all about strategies. what tyres to use, when to pit, how many times to stop in a race.. i dont see anything wrong about it.
Ferrari was known to be a master in planning strategies. This is the main reason it was Contructor’s champion from 1999 to 2005. after that, FIA changed many rules to prevent Ferrari from keep on winning. things like drivers must start a race with the exact same amount of fuel during qualifying and no tyre change during racing.
to me a race is a race. and to quote vin diesel from the first Fast And Furios movie – it doesnt matter whether you win by a mile or an inch, a win is a win. A racing team without commitment to strategies is a team without desire to win.
I think if you are a team supporter, you would not mind team orders. However if you’re a fan of the driver, in this case Massa, you’ll be pissed off. All depends what type of F1 fan you are
No instruction is allowed, just let your driver to decide by them self, USD100,000 is sap sap suit for ferrari, important is the championship point.
This regulation goes against the fundamental structure of a team contest. IT WILL NEVER WORKS.
just follow team order lo. you follow instruction from the one that is paying your salary. or affecting your salary.
IF this is to achieve best result for the team interest. .. . y not.
not happy then quit la
first
If Alonso’s car was faster then Felipe, why couldn’t he pass Felipe? He tried that once and he couldn’t, that proved his car was not that fast after all. So by asking Felipe whether he understood the situation, the engineer was basically implying to Felipe that he should let Alonso pass him and that was a team order although it was not explicably spelled out. Come on, what do you expect Felipe to respond to that question? By saying “I don’t understand” and proceed to claim the pole podium? F man, Ferrari was being chicken by not admitting to have given out a team order!!!
track time show that alonso faster than massa after they both change tyre n all fast time alonso made when he a bit far behind massa n stuck since than….if u see several races before…same situation occur..massa so slow that held up alonso until the end..the result very bad..passing in F1 is not easy as we say or saw in tv..not all corner or all straight road can overtaking especially traditional track in F1 not like sepang, china, qatar which r modern track
ya lor, overtaking nowadays v hard with the aero grip being affected by dirty behind the front car. but since when did the drivers afraid of crashing when trying to overtake? they were saying it dangerous to try and overtake?! wtf?! just coz alonso is lapping faster doesnt mean he should be allowed to pass, this is a race so he should overtake massa and not imply that he be let thru.
In view of the regulation, it is wrong for Ferrari to do so.
I believe Ferrari was looking at the incident where the Red Bull Racing team collided with each other when they are racing each other.
I believe Alonso showed to the team & Massa that he was faster when he slowed down to about 4s behind Massa and catches back within few laps. Alonso showed his intention of racing Massa, and Ferrari informed Massa about this.
In the end, Massa also allowed Alonso to overtake him, to any accident happens to avoid both of them (and Ferrai) from taking points from the race.
that lad got a point.
as far as the conversation during the race is concern, there is not a single word that form one kind of ‘asking’ or ‘directing’
the engineer said to massa that his car was slower. thats all. the so called ‘apology’ could be referring to they apologising to the kid that the car wasnt going to be able to give him (and the team) comfortable situation should he continue hanging on. in other word, the ‘apology’ didnt necessarily a word or feeling as consequenced by the earlier radio conversation
not a prancing horse fan, i am silver arrow now n forever. more specifically hakkinen’s silver arrow.
the one that involved barrichello and schumacher was clearer that it was a team order. so no point going there anymore. its done n dusted
No hard core F1 fans would like to see ‘team orders’ within a team, as it destroys genuine competition between the drivers. But when you do a quick reality check you will see that the manufacturers and the team sponsors comes first, actually. The teams would want to come first and get podium finishers at every race if possible, so that they get maximum exposure for their sponsers and their brands.
Team orders, explicit or otherwise, would enhance this possibility of winning for the team – for the drivers it’s a bonus. Even team Red Bull had indicated they would favour the driver who has the most points in the championship after the recent nose cone fiasco between Webber and Vettel.
Yes, unfortunately, it’s the ‘global results’ that counts, as explained by Stefano. The sooner F1 drivers understand this, the better. If you can’t take it, just leave, as there is a long queue waiting to take over.
You have to keep winning and stop whining, to be a top F1 driver.
I’m seeing a whole lot of arrogance from Ferrari.
Ferrari did the right thing. Others would have done the same.
Team Orders will never be eliminated in F1.
Ferrari was found guilty for being caught doing it. Nothing more, nothing less.
On the day I see the Ferrari come good in terms of performance, they turn around and do something stupid like this. I hope they get excluded from this year’s championship altogether.
That Stefano guy, twist and turn, it’s still team order la…. just say it like a man.
if u in massa position..knowing u slow that held up ur partner that is by far much quicker n other driver from other team r closing down wat will u do…
Any Team Sport require a team leader and Role Players, thats a fact.
Well if telling that your team mate behind you is faster than you consititute a team order then what about Mclaren asking Button to conserve his car when he was hassling Lewis? Isn’t that team orders?
Yesterday’s message was just a message: “Felipe, Fernando is faster than you”. I don’t think it can be a considered as a team order to move out. If it is then even McLaren’s communication is a team order
there are team orders and then there are team orders that affect the result of the race. if alonso was really faster then he should be able to overtake at the hairpin in turn 6.
That’s F1. It’s only a game not a real motorsport. ….Where’s the credibility of F1 !!!!
Thank heaven for motorcycle racing ( motogp, wsbk….).
motogp also have team order…who say no team order
Of coz they have team order . Teams give order all the times. But they never give order to cheat !!!
Where is your credibility when you get thropy from your team mate !!!! What a shame ….
In my opinion this was not a case of team orders: my engineer kept me constantly informed on what was going on behind me, especially when I was struggling a bit on the hard tyres: so I decided to do the best thing for the team, and a one-two finish is the best possible result, isn’t it?
watch your words felipe. i can easily replace you with another driver. if you want to be number one driver, go drive virgin racing.
do you ever read your contract? so stop whining and thats an order
yeah, why not choose Fairuz Fawzy instead?
As long he knows to…
1)how to read his contract.
2)not a whinner
3)not a cry baby
We will welcome him in our Stable.
porke Felipe porke…i’ve notice u’re really struggling in hard tires…u seems cannot get enough heat to make proper grip…that why i yelling “i’m the fastest, get me throught”…
i’m also notice u locking ur tires too much..it can make ur tires grinding too fast beyond ur expectations…but we still can race as a man…
porke Felipe porke…..why u make this sacrifice….i’ll never win this year’s WDC..it’s just unrealistic dream..porke!!
i suspect Mclaren and Ferrari is sandbagging this year and last year..and they’ll competitive at the mid-season…haha..so please RedBull stop their daydreaming on winning tittles!!!
Who wants to sandbag and lose out on points?
Mclaren was sandbagging last year after Ferrari failed to find rival’s pace in using KERS…Mclaren is totally in winner pace on GP Hungary last year…1st winner with KERS car…maybe they have secret agreement because F1 fans only want to see Mclaren and Ferrari only..
this yera, they have abide their ‘secret’ collateral aggrement…
competitive in Mid-season!!
be realistic lah;
a)Ferrari- 60years of experience
b)Mclaren- 44years of experience\
c)RedBull?!- 5years old…baby
don’t compared with BrawnGP last year…Ferrari and Mclaren with KERS in super heavy car…not suitable comparisons…..
and be realistic again-
a)Ferrari-sport car manufacturer
b)Mclaren- F1 team cum sports car manufacturer
c)RedBull??!- selling sport drinks..air tonik…aduyai!!
vettel let it slip again! dumbkoff!
Well, to be honest, its a team order. Like it or not, its a ‘team order’ in a lame way, just trying to be less obvious than what they did at the previous Barrichello and Schumacher incident. As I always believe, Ferrari is now in a desperate position, so to say, they just tried and half succeeded in exploiting the rules and regulations. I’m a Scarlet fans, but i think they have went too far in breaching their integrity. Massa to me is definitely in front and even he appear to suffer a bit on the hard compound, he has all the rights and the quality to defend till the end. So what if Vettel is right behind Alonso’s tail? Are people in Ferrari not confident of their driver or machine to keep the Bulls at bay? Conspiracy to protect not only who has the best point position, but fundamentally and importantly to conserve the rights of the Spaniard against the Brazilian. Santander is one of the Scarlet major sponsor, and look at how they discard the world champion Raikonnen and placed Alonso is already a clear cut conspiracy. Well, for the benefit of the team rather than the sports, they will have to clear a cockpit to fit Alonso and most importantly, to secure the sponsor that came along. F1 is about racing, and racing is not just a game of manipulation within the team. Poor Massa, deserve his wins right? All the more after fracturing his skull, the engineer now dent his ego as well. Don’t forget, he is also the driver that nearly win the title for Ferrari…as for the reason being that the decision is the best to ensure the team position, please wake up, alright? What god damn difference there is for the Constructor’s point if both car finish in a 1 and 2 position. The difference is only on the points between the 2 driver. That is favoritism and Ferrari just got away with a fine for team order? Ban them or cut points at least. They are a shame to the sports and I feel shameful to support them as well. Stefano should just quit and get lost from the arena. His directive has robbed Massa of his glory.
This is formula one, the top flight of motorsports, the battle ground of manufacturers which drivers are only their image model. Do you think it was Stefano’s call? I think not, or he should have been fired. Right? Of course its Luca de Montezomolo call, the big boss of Ferrari. We should remember, Alonso is ferrari’s new boy, like Hamilton to Mclaren. If you want real racing, watch GP2. Formula one will always be a two horse race.
Massa will not become WC with Ferrari!
massa will in ferrari n he is at ferrari since micheal shoemaker n than rekonen n now alonso coz of consistency…..butl not all track he fast than alonso n alonso not fast than massa in all track. in this particular track alonso better…n i dont like alonso in this team……but i wan ferrari win driver championship n constructor chapionship…..
Alonso is a bully. He tried to push his way through when he was in McLaren but Hamilton fought back and it resulted in Alonso moving out from McLaren. And now he is bullying his new team mate in Ferrari and luckily for him Massa is not the fighting type.
Pity Massa. After the near fatal accident one year ago, he would have thought that his luck will start to change from yesterdays race. I believe Ferrari will soon having Alonso in their team is a liability for their image and morale. Hope they can bring back Kimi next year!
alonso-hamilton is pure favoritism by mclaren..hamilton is grown as racer by former team principal of mclaren
althought he’s Mclaren’s prodigy..but in 2007 they got same treatment…clearly Hamilton is a born-racer…no doubt!!!
after alonso case goes on sport’s court..they decide it was Alonso’s ego..he as 2 times world champion but beaten rookie really badly..
he also can dominate the WDC at his rookie season..what a skill!!!
haha i think he couldnt handle being a driver on equal terms with his team mate lah. even at renault, he was no1 driver.
By hook or by crook, it is a team order. if it is a team event, such regulation will never works.
If FIA wanna ban team order, just don’t allow radio contact with the drivers. Team orders are given to drivers all the time during racing, eg. when to come into pit for change of tyres, etc, not just asking one driver to let other driver thru. Even if radio is taken away, there are other ways to give team order by signaling to drivers, eg. by sms, etc. F1 is now more of a show than a real racing, big money sport with a few people earning enormous profit & they just wanna make the sport more interesting. This 100,000 fine is just part of the show.
It is supposed to be a team sport. The one with the highest chance to win the title should be given the best support and the second car to act as the buffer. Although Massa may be considered as the number 2 driver… His role is just as important, which is not to let the other drivers get close to Alonso. So what if it is team orders? It is all part of the strategy to win. It is like football… Ideally the ball should be passed to the person who has the highest chance to score.
If Button can be told to ‘conserve his fuel’ so that he doesn’t overtake Hamilton… Why can’t Massa be told who is faster? That’s much better than the repeat of what Vettel and Webber did which almost took out both cars.
And if the Ferrari’s get excluded from the results, then hamilton should be black flagged at the Malaysian GP for excessive weaving or for being so agressive at the pitlane.
You have rised good points.
Formula 1 is a Team sport but remember this Team sport has rules and all participants must adhere to them. Otherwise all we’ll have is anarchy. At the moment team orders are illegal. As for comparing Lewis Hamilton insident with the Ferrari’s team order, please be reasonable. The punishment for what Ferrai did can not be compared to a punishment related to pit lane mishift!
agree…this is a team sport, it’s not about individuals
like that no need to award for best rookie driver lo, what for need to have drivers’ world champion?!since it is not about the drivers anymore right. bollocks!
I foresee in the coming years F1 will be so highly technical that you don’t even need a driver to pilot the car. Everything is calculated to the nth degree so might as well get a humaniform android to drive the car. Sure no gaduh2 and masam2 muka one.
who wants to pat good money to watch that?! lol!
Alonso = scandal
remember when he won at singapore… crashgate
it make the F1 less attractive
Agreed. Anywhere he went is problem.
au contraire! he spent many wonderful years at Renault where he became double world champion!
Are Ferrari only the team being punished for questionable “team orders”?
It was a sad day for Formula 1.
Team orders deprive us all of a good wheekl to wheel fight. I was looking forward to that, but It was not meant to be at least this time. if Alonso was really faster than Massa, he should be able to overtake him without help!
What many people have failed to see is that there is a patterrn developping here – Not long ago in Malasya, Alonso’s team mate at Renault was ordered to crush to give him a win! Now, another colleague was ordered to let him pass to give him a victory. What’s next? Alonso tried to pull the same rick when he was at Mclaren but it didn’t work because Mclaren management team were not going to have none of that because at Mclaren drivers are treated as equal. When he noticed that he was not going to have his way, he left. Thanks god for that…
Ferrari is again acting extremely arrogant. Everybody knows what happend, still they contionue to lie in our faces. I cannot possibly understand how they can live withthemselves. I really hope both drivers gets points taken away as penalty. And that Ferrari is made clear that if they ever to this again they get a 1 year ban from F1.
I used to think F1 would be nothing without Ferrari. But nowadays I feel F1 would do just fine without them…
I don’t care who is right or wrong. Now it is not the best man to win in every race anymore, it is the team that decides. SImilarly, Alex Ferguson can just tell his boys “You blokes better stay slow and don’t score because I have got 100 quids on MU losing this bloody game” Team Orders ….. Ha ha ha ha ha ……….
I have lost interest in F1 for now. Unless and until it is fair game.
stefano talks like kids…. if Alonso is faster, then overtake lah…what’s the fuss ??
the boring ferrari. ferrari is equal with team order… it make f1 soooooo boring.. huh.. also the regulation especially cannot refuel make f1 worst and boring.. this is race not the right time to save fuel. if f1 want to save the real budget make a race with same engine…
It’s a team sport. PERIOD!
No need to worry come to FIA-Ferrari Internationale Automotive…
Some are saying teams orders are part of a team sport. Fine enough. But there are also individual driver points. So its unfair for the drivers to surrender their hard earned points. If one was really faster and better, then race and overtake la. Spectators want to see racing, not drivers who simply let people through…
Well team orders, no team orders, people will react. If two team mates begins to race each other and for example, hit one another (like the redbulls), it will be an issue. People will say they should have not raced and the other car should be content with second place or they should have not raced because they are TEAMMATES. If two team mates are asked not to race each other, people call it a boring race. Mclaren at turkey, have you seen Whitmarsh face when Button started racing Hamilton? Yeah, there was panick at the Mclaren camp. It was also obvious that Button was asked to backed off. Well there goes the saying “you cannot please anyone” Well at least this is not a boring 2010 season, at least its is controversial and we have something to talk about. I remembered falling asleep while watching the first race this 2010!
After watching the aryton senna tribute done by top gear, i wonder when we will see F1 like how it used to be during the senna days. Bold but honorable drivers. This is not happening in modern F1, tainted recently by the team orders fiasco by red bull and ferrari.
Read the full press conference after the race (http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/07/25/ferrari-drivers-hounded-in-press-conference/) and my god it was brutal. Apart of driving skills, a good racing driver really need decent PR skills to survive the barrage from journalist.
My fav ques have to go as below:
Q. (Ian Gordon, News of the World) Fernando, you said after Valencia that the race had been manipulated in favour of Lewis. Those words seem a bit hollow now. Where will this victory rank in your career, is it up there with Singapore 2008?
Madness!!!!
can’t really understand the hoo hah about the whole affair. scuderia ferrari is a team, the team want to win, the drivers work for the team, team order drivers to win for the team. what is wrong with that? if you go to the LeMans series, the team is always at the forefront, drivers are just drivers. we read news like “Audi win at LeMans” not “so and so win at LeMans”. back in days of Enzo Ferrari, who regards the constructors title more important than drivers title, would have gave the same order. go look up the villeneuve and pironi feud and you will know what I mean. frank williams, ron dennis and colin chapman all gave team orders at different point of time, so what is new?
Can’t compare F1 with Le Mans. Le Mans is certainly more focused on the team/manufacturer. 3 drivers take turns to drive the car. no room for personal glory.
Contrast that to F1. One driver per car. The sport of F1 focuses so much on the driver, at least thats how the audience perceives it
agreed! even alonso cannot drive the Le Mans 24hours all by himself! so endurance racing is really about the team. in f1 its about the drivers bah.
In formula one, especially manufacturers, they use drivers as their image model to promote their product, especially the top paid driver. Love or hate Alonso, they don’t pay him 20million dollars per season to finish second. He is ferrari’s top man and Massa, he should know very much his role. When Alonso came, we are not naive to know that Massa will be second fiddle to Alonso. We know very much ferrari never practiced equal treatment to drivers. I always wondered why people react when it was practiced by Schumacher years ago. Ferrari were always the BADBOYS of motorsport.
denda $100,000 kepada Ferrari tidak menggugat langsung kewangan Ferrari.. If you work as a team, which priority come first, team or individually.. for me.. is team..
ferrari byt
Alonso is still the arrogant bastard as he was when in McLaren
If you can ‘t overtake Massa then be it – this shows that you are not good enough.
I bet he was whining over the radio that his car is faster
and Massa is holding him up etc.
Massa just speak up and don’t let this go by.
This will definately bring life to the lagging interest in F1.
KZM u write like you know so much abt Ferrari and motor racing.
Go put your worthless comment to Lotus on how they should run the team.
let him write lah! at the end if the day, for all their skulduggery, ferrari will win nothing! payback is a nasty female dog biting you in the balls! lol!
candu and dicky,
give me a time and venue. i can meet up with u 2 guys. Whack the hell out of u 2.
come come… email me or post here.
Dont give reason not to meet. no excuses. we settle it outside.
wei, fella u dont know how to read ker? i defended ur RIGHT to comment. and if you cannot hack criticism by other forummers then maybe you should not comment. oh by the way, i didnt even criticise you.
resorting to calling out ppl for a fight when you cannot win an argument by words is just so pathetic. so please, take a chill pill and go take a break at your favourite place.
TTDI Police Station… July 30, 2010… 10 a.m sharp…
What a sohai idiot this KZM is! what a stupid loser!! Hahahhaha!
yup.. such a loser.. btw, he didn’t show up either
such a silly boy, you may find him in the safety and comfort of the proton fanboys club. or maybe in the hungaroring F1 gp posts.