Here is another short update from Thomson Financial, quoting Wolfsburger Allgemeine Zeitung, once again citing Volkswagen sources. According to the report, Volkswagen will only consider taking a large stake in Proton if the Malaysian government fully withdraws from the company, thus ending it’s Government Linked Company status. The report does not state a definition of what a large stake is. Is 20% considered a large stake or is the planned more than 51% in various stages considered a large stake?
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haiya.. why so very confusing one
me thinks this is one of those german tricks where they got all msian govt n ppl in proton so confused and desperate for alliance; to just hand proton over to them without strings attached.
might as well give them proton for free, in hope they will save the failing company.. padahal kite sume kena tipu, as proton worth waaaay more than it is currently being evaluated.
i tgk saja, curious to find out who will win at the end..
p/s: think win-win laaa.. baru baguss
I think our gov. not willing to give up their stake holder in our PROTON…..
So why not review our the PROTON internal audit and find out if there any ……… happen in their managements.
Anyway keep on the GOOD WORK to our PROTON management teams……
LOL……………………….
hope the government wont sell Proton 2 any foreign companies. we should be proud of our national car maker and keep it ours. look at our neighbours, who can proudly say that they have their own national car? like my nick stated, i’m proud to be Malaysian!! life’s full of ups and downs, give proton a chance to stand up on their own. by the way paul, do you have the latest number of persona bookings?
my fren jz got back from one of the showroom, pegi booking lah tuu. Proton Edar is declaring 10K, but undeclared sum has reached 14K.. not baaadd
i wonder how perodua is faring with its Myvi and Viva sales?
gd move vw…thy know that business controlled by politics wil never ever work…bcos individual interests always more important than the company…thats y proton nt doing wel…the only solution is to make it fully independent of the government….i hope the G considers it for the sake of proton
Our G has the history of calling off negotiation – like what happened to the proposed bridge linking JB and S’pore, don’t be surprise if this happen to the VW-Proton talk. At the moment we don’t know who is ‘jual mahal’, could be either side. But if it happened, I’ll take that its for our best interest.
It’s not time for Proton to jual mahal, Proton is in trouble now, not VW.
VW still have lots of oppurtunity in Indonesia, Thailand and Vietnam.
VW is smart in the sense that they know business and politics cannot mix.
Agreed ! Politic and businesss NO GO !
Volkswagen will only consider taking a large stake in Proton if the Malaysian government fully withdraws from the company, thus ending it’s Government Linked Company status.
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To be more exact, remove all the cronies and parasite from Proton. They have no place in biz.
The German government rarely got involved in business unless it happens to be a company of long stature and it affects the interest of their citizens and national security. I always wonder how come Malaysian government is running more companies and businesses instead of running the country. It’s the right move for VW to ensure that Proton can be operated as a profitable business instead of becoming another political story.
fingers crossed, hope right for both, looks like we have some homework to be completed,
VW with vast experience overseas especially in China knows all the pattern there is in the book if the company is GLC linked.
Being a veteran in their own home front too, VW have good experience dealing with unions and government alike.
Lets not say ‘in trouble’ – just going through hard time. The new management is trying hard to revive the business, look like things are getting better.
Germans are not stupid u know…doing business with GLC..especially with high stakes there is bound to be high bureaucracy.
Well better close shop loh.
Wasting tax payer’s money and suck them up again. Only benefit those involved in it but not the rakyat.
VW is simply smart…………without it..VW wouldn’t die. With the $$$ they can build one anywhere in the world.
Proton.in Indonesia and China………..there’s more manufacturer in China………so no long term. Indonesia……..we sold to them dirt cheap…..don’t forget Toyota and Nissan are already a force there……..why they should support Proton. We are merely TAXI there and nothing else.
since here ” Jalan mati ” and there too……close shop. RIP…………..
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Volkswagen will only consider taking a large stake in Proton if the Malaysian government fully withdraws from the company, thus ending it’s Government Linked Company status.
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I don’t think Malaysia Government will withdraws from the company
Because this will affect all the cronies rice bowl.
Do you think Malaysia Government is stupid? Cronies important or Business more important?
Of course, is Cronies lah
Remove Cronies = Cronies corruption in proton = less pocket money
The Germans are real business people and don’t like politics in their business. So, either the G back off or no deal. No deal = death to Proton.
move ! government
I’m sure is because Volkswagen found that it is very difficult to discuss an issue such as in this case between Volkswagen and Proton’s tie up when Malaysian government linked with Proton at the back. Decision making become a problem and that’s why the talks has delayed month after month.
Volkswagen might also worried even if they have controlled stake in Proton, when or every time there is a new ideas from Volkswagen have to discuss with Proton PLUS the Malaysian government again. For sure, decisions will always delay again and slow down their moves. Which is not good as TIME IS MONEY. Have to make right decisions fast!
Without government link with Proton, any discussion will be between Volkswagen and Proton alone. For sure, time to make the decision will be faster and much simpler.
Just my 2 cents. Cheers all and Happy motoring. Enjoy your ride but stay safe!!
Let say if no more gov links. Do u guys think there still be protection for Proton ?
WOw…a SLASH by the German at last. Haha yeah way to go.
There i said before…who’s incharge actually in this game.VW won’t give a shite to Malaysia Government – of course in this case it means the people who run the government and its parasites.
I like this.I like how the German sounds so direct, straight, clear and firm.They should teach those morons how to run a business.Ops sorry…no need to teach the morons because there are too damn arrogant and rotten deep into the core.
Again..VW has nothing to lose…nothing.But they sure lose if invest big in a company with maggots, morons and parasites clinging in it heavenly.And VW seems knew well about this sick phenomenon already.That’s why !!
I think vw also in trouble back there tats why they want to playing us some trick…i think we shud consider to talk with vw’s ‘godfather’, porsche
Everytime the political influence on business, it just make the business much complicated and too much bureaucracy is affect the decision and normal operation…
Or maybe VW afraid MY Gov will take over VW .. hahaha ..
hard to beleive why some people are still trying to support proton as having a good management and will improve. of course there will be improvement. but these meagre improvements cannot match the might of other automakers which are leap frogging ahead. it is clear that proton will never succeed already so best to quit trying. There was a window of opportunity back in 1980 when alot of companies were starting out. now the chances are no more. there are too many good car companies out there with a stronghold on the car industry across the world. it is clear that even the american big three with strong credit backup and local support cannot compete.
VW should show proton the finger. every other car company has.
proton is not malaysian. dont confuse proton with patriotism.
As espected, it is not easy to make win win decision. From our govt side, they never let Proton easily agreed with all the agreements deal Proton – VW because proton still profitable company to govt even how bad this company like some ppl talking here. But by current Proton performance now with new management team, maybe the 20% also will not happen, thats why dragging to Feb 2008 and will keep dragging. Unbelieve? hehe..just wait and see.
For Proton to close shop, this will never happen. So many reason to be explained. Guess you know all the reasons. Anyway, for those who wish proton to close/rip…actually what you all get ?? lower car prices?? no nap?? protected ?? you are just dreaming unless the current govt now is changing..so this coming election, pls vote carefully.
Proton marry with VW is not important. If they married, VW happy and proton also happy. Easy for them to produce cars..sharing platforms..no need to invest rnd..just rebadge etc..sama jadi macam P2, dll..senang kerja.
Between the Devil and the Deep blue sea…all the best proton !!
Does that mean Proton will not enjoy the protection anymore? What about Perodua? Will other makes be sold at proper AFTA prices then?
Can’t wait to drive a VolkSaga…
As a business entity, VW don’t want any politics or govt interference in doing their business. Yesterday Pak Lah already told us there is no official request or even suggestion on how to split their shares. The real thing is, VW want to ‘cuci tangan’ by giving our govt 3-4 years to turn Proton to black and at that time only they will take over Proton. If this gonna to be happened, duit rakyat will be used again to bail out. The real and main objective of Proton establishment almost 30 years ago not gonna achieve. Sad, but VW is doing business and that’s how they doing it. If VW takeover Proton, our Ringgit may weaken due to flow to German especially. This is the bad thing on this part of takeover. Other than that like removing all the politics and cronies vendor and decision maker is good.
No way G will let go, coz P1 is our national pride.
But for sure VW entry into P1 would be expansion business within SEA. As other mention, business + politic wont not workout.
If thing happen, i still don’t see any reasons for G remove high taxes on automotive industry. As its profitable income and badly affect second hand car value.
Protowagen, VolksProt, Prowagen, Volkston? Hahahaha cracks me up. No bashing intended, just a neutral thought :)
Do not ever think that Germans are much better than us. I work in one and I know. Malaysians are more flexible, durable and creative compared to them. Europeans in general are afraid that we take their jobs away. They revert to nationalistic pressures and archaic; ‘Im your boss, this is German company you shut up yellow man.’ top down management style. Germans do not accept performance linked appraisal system or competence training. Some of my bosses (matrix reporting) never heard of the 8 habits. My jaw just dropped.
If you have never heard of the MANNESSMAN political funding scandal or the Siemens ‘special fund’ this year, that you are katak bawah tempurung. Or quite simply blind. After!
Yeah yeahhh..Cant wait for proton to close shop.Hope VW will takeover Proton..
panzer said,
September 14, 2007 @ 9:47 am
Yeah yeahhh..Cant wait for proton to close shop.Hope VW will takeover Proton..
TIE UP doesn’t mean one party have to close shop. It means working together and take control particular department of the company. Just like Volvo is ‘under’ Ford. Skoda, Seat, Audi ‘under’ Volkswagen. Porche has stake in Volkswagen and many others. Do you see this brand name under other companies close shop?
These days many companies are collobrating with other companies to produce certain car models because they have same thing in mind…. costs cutting as now it is so competitive. They don’t want or can’t efford to burn too much money in R&D to produce a car model alone. So collobrating with company with the same thing in mind and as win-win situation able to archieve both parties, why not?
*yawn*….
takes forever…sudah potong stim and doesn’t matter anymore…
they can take whatever sweet time they want to negotiate…
one day…VW cannot tahan…just go somewhere else to setup new partnership… with other ppl and not proton…
:)
if they really want to collaborate on producing new models, i would agree but hope the government wont sell proton stakes to any foreigners. proton is malaysian, not like those japanese and koreans wearing malaysian mask (perodua, naza, inokom).
gogsard said,
September 13, 2007 @ 11:20 pm
Or maybe VW afraid MY Gov will take over VW .. hahaha ..
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Do you know how large is VW? Their 2006 financial figures shows that they have EU136Billion in assets. That’s RM680Billion. Do you know how much Cash Reserve they have? EU9.367Billion or RM46.835Billion! Do you know how much Cash Reserve the Malaysian government have now? With IDR, PGCC and God knows what other Mega projects, I’m not surprised if we’re in deficit.
Pull out? Impossible seems like an understatement here.
bobdbilder said,
September 14, 2007 @ 9:31 am
Do not ever think that Germans are much better than us. I work in one and I know. Malaysians are more flexible, durable and creative compared to them. Europeans in general are afraid that we take their jobs away. They revert to nationalistic pressures and archaic; ‘Im your boss, this is German company you shut up yellow man.’ top down management style. Germans do not accept performance linked appraisal system or competence training. Some of my bosses (matrix reporting) never heard of the 8 habits. My jaw just dropped.
—————————
Different people have different strength and weaknesses. I’ve worked with Germans for almost a decade and spent some time in Germany as well. Malaysians are obviously more flexible and creative owing to our unique blend of multi-racial and cultural tolerance but you cannot deny the superiority of the Germans in terms of technology and innovation. Their meticulous drive and desire for perfection can only be matched by perhaps the Japanese.
Being afraid of losing one’s job is human nature. Europeans with decades of Union protection obviously are afraid of Asians who generally work longer hours for free. After seeing so many VSS by European giants, do you blame them? And again, it’s human nature to feel superior of one’s race. Germans, French, Italians, Americans, Arabs, Chinese, Japanese, Indians, you name it. Heck, our southern neighbour is the best example. Work for any foreign company and you’ll get the same treatment. And come on, 8 Habits is American. Go and ask the Frenchies or Italians and you’ll get the same response.
The bottom line is, German government don’t dabble in businesses. Huge companies like Siemens, VW and Daimler are market driven, not political. Daimler can merge with Chrysler without political parties crying that Germans will lose their identity and be influenced by Americans.
Proton will not exist without help from Mitsubishi. Say what you want but Proton is more Japanese than Malaysian. All the designers spent so much time with Mitsubishi engineers. So, is Proton really Malaysian? Honestly, I don’t care except to see Proton remove all the leeches and be profitable. Now ask yourself, WHO can turn Proton around? Actually, the biggest question is do you prefer to see Proton DIE as a so called Malaysian company or do you wanna see Proton be profitable with a foreign partner? If you marry a German, you’re no longer Malaysian??? Do some of you even realise how stupid your argument sounds?
First…
Proton need to pay own debts without VW help….
Now…
Goverment share has to be release….
Then…
Close Proton, and all Malaysian dream (especially Tun M)
VW is one of world class automotive company is a free market driven enterprises! They know very well biz always mutual exclusive with politics.
What VW demand is purely commercial decision! Rakyat are free to buy Proton share but to let G have substantial shareholder with backup by cronies, it is destine to fail.
Case Study #1
Perodua- Started out as the 2nd national car manufacturer. Eventually taken over by Toyota (via Daihatsu) and still remain profitable, more than ever in fact. But insiders no longer describe Perodua as a car maker — it is more like an assembler now. All decisions go back to Japan. Most of the parts are made in Japan, and slowly local vendor could localize the parts. For certain critical items, the Japs were smart enough to let Proton develop the vendors before having the vendors to the parts for Perodua to minimize their risk and cost. However, there is no such thing as producing Perodua’s own car in Perodua. All the models are rebadged Toyotas/Daihatsus, with cosmetic changes. All the critical testings, designs, validation, simulations etc done in Japan. Perodua basically industrializes Toyota product. Period.
Case Study #2
SimeTyre . After years of developing and making their own tyre eventually the company was sold off by SimeDarby group to Continental AG. Now it is called ContinentalSime. Post Continental, all the design and testing guys suddenly found themselves without regular job to do. All they do now is, you guessed it — industrialize Continental’s products.
Right now, Proton enjoys much better freedom in deciding their product range. They are certainly not the best, but their level of the R&D work in this country is perhaps paralleled only by a few other companies (perhaps Measat, IRIS and a few electronic companies).
Post Volkswagen, if Proton is lucky they will be like Skoda. If not, they will be like Perodua, and surely be enslaved by the Germans. See what happened to Chrysler? At one time Toyota was worried of Chrysler’s vibrant product line up and vigorous development work. Then the Germans did a big favor for Toyota when they slowly remove all the key people in the Chrysler. Now even the Germans do not want to have anything to do with Chrysler.
I support VW to take over Proton from Malaysian government. The govenrment should not use patriotism as an excuse not to sell Proton, when the real reason is cronism and self-enrichment. People, you don’t have to be pro-government to be patriotic. At times, it’s patriotic not to support the government. Patriotic is about putting Malaysians’ interests first, not cronies’. If the government fails to manage Proton, it’s best to hand over to the more capable, in this case VW with good track records. We patriots would like to see a world class Proton benefiting Malaysians at large, not cornies. A Proton which contributes to Malaysians at large is then a true patriot.
tanasi … what is so wrong if there is no perodua own car but taking some other car and rebadge it? if the cost is lesser to take someone car and rebadge it compare with producing own car, then that’s good business.
u want perodua to produce own car just to proof that malaysia boleh? so that’s pride u want? if perodua produce cost effective car even they rebadge it, this will benefits consumer. we will have bigger purchase power!!
agreed with tanasi. i’ve been in perodua, all the designs are from toyota/daihatsu or must get the japanese approval. their r&d’s job is only to localize the parts but the designs are from japan. how can they get the national car status? even naza and inokom don’t deserve 2 be called national car, only 1 national car which is PROTON!
agreed with tanasi. i’ve been in perodua, all the designs are from toyota/daihatsu or must get the japanese approval. their r&d’s job is only to localize the parts but the designs are from japan. how can they get the national car status? even naza and inokom don’t deserve 2 be called national car, only 1 national car which is PROTON!
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In that case, better if all car assembler in Msia get national car status…..Cheaper Honda, Toyota,…etc…hehehehehehehehe
NoToLowQuality, what is wrong is that we are losing foreign exchange to japan. daihatsu/toyota can find a way around the tarriff barrier by sneaking in as a national car in the guise of perodua and reaping all the benefits from it.
and tommy73, i think the govt has already done a better job by installing new management into proton, of which after only less than 2 years, we can already read about some decent achievements from them. end of the day, i think we should ignore the past, and look at today, and hopefully, a better tommorow for proton. Don’t you think what the new management is doing today, has already made proton a better prospect in the eyes of a potential foreign partner? The company isn’t bankrupt, its introducing new improved models, its export market has grown in the last 2 years than it ever has, it has all the facilities..etc.
THATS THE ATTITUDE OF FOREIGN COMPANY…. TAMAK….SELLFISH…BODOH PUNYA COMPANY…BAGI BETIS NAK PEHA… NAK CONQUER 50% PROTON SHARES?? I NOT AGREE..TOTALLY DISDISDISDISAGREE….WE WILL LOOSE OUR PRIDE N JOY…
proton only need a partner.not the take over..VW is only want to take over proton like Dahaitsu/toyolta take over perodua…if that happen..It will bad for us..if proton did not exist..other car producer can easily inflate their car price..because of proton allowed all malaysian can own their own car even not perfect..if there is no proton in malaysia…i believe not all can afford to buy a car even small one..can you see the reason behind the exist of proton?????think logic..and don’t assume and believe that all the foreigner has a pure heart toward us….
Dear akshen_kamen,
What do you mean “..if proton did not exist..other car producer can easily inflate their car price..”? Manufacturers do not inflate their prices. It’s when their products enter a certain region, and local authorities start to dictate the cost of ownership. How old are you by the way?
” believe not all can afford to buy a car even small one..can you see the reason behind the exist of proton?????”
Have you been outside of Malaysia, and review their car prices? Don’t talk rubbish. In early 2000, a brand new Proton Waja costs exactly the same, if not more than a brand new Toyota Corolla. Tolong keluar dari tempurung nko….
akshen_kamen said,
September 14, 2007 @ 4:25 pm
proton only need a partner.not the take over..VW is only want to take over proton like Dahaitsu/toyolta take over perodua…if that happen..It will bad for us..if proton did not exist..other car producer can easily inflate their car price..because of proton allowed all malaysian can own their own car even not perfect..if there is no proton in malaysia…i believe not all can afford to buy a car even small one..can you see the reason behind the exist of proton?????think logic..and don’t assume and believe that all the foreigner has a pure heart toward us….
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Geez, do you even know what you’re talking about or you’re just 10 years old? If there is no Proton, everyone can afford to buy foreign cars. Proton was given special treatment with no taxes while all the rest have to pay high elevated taxes. It was only with the ASEAN initiative that we started seeing cheaper cars. What is the logic behind a government who keeps on putting citizen’s money into a company that is bleeding billions? If your own company is losing money every month, do you take your childrens money and put them into the company just because it’s your company?
Dear zack_keyme988,
Have you ever owned one of our ‘pride and joy’? I believe your comment is an emotional, rather than rational. Bila masa Proton nak bagi ‘betis’ diorang? Diorang TERPAKSA cari partner pasal mismanagement yg dulu2. And when you talk VW nak conquer just because of 50% share, aku nak tanya nko satu soalan dulu. LOAN KETER DAH ABIS BAYAR BELUM? Kalo belum maksudnye nko takde keter, sebab keter tu bank yang punya.
Do you guys see the picture now? Proton will always be Malaysian, because it satrted that way. It has that essence, and the rakyat will always be giving it their full attention because it involves their ‘pride’.
tanasi, I have no problem with Proton keeping the Malaysian dream alive by giving them the platform to design and innovate. However, it becomes a BIG PROBLEM when the government is taking the money you, me and all the tax paying citizens here to keep Proton afloat. All other car manufacturers use their profit for R&D. Proton use our taxes. Have you ever considered that if these money are not put into Proton, they can be used to build toll free highways? Think about it.
Proton must do everthing it can to be profitable. Then again, some just want it to be 100% Malaysian, even a bankrupt one. Only in success can you be proud. As it is, we are the laughing stock to the rest of the world.
razor_clawzz said
“Manufacturers do not inflate their prices. It’s when their products enter a certain region, and local authorities start to dictate the cost of ownership….”
how you know about this?have your working with G ah?do you have actual face??
i give u two choice..
1. u drive a foreign car but with petrol price rm 4 per liter
2. u drive local car but the price only 1.92
u are the person who want to drive import car but also want cheaper fuel right? how can know if proton not exist.toyolta corolla will have same price with waja..u hear you uncle said ke???give me a fact la..dont talk rubbish like you
this is funny, in the begining I always want Proton to close down or sell to VW, so the market can open and we all can have cheap car. But to see Proton fight so hard to gain back the rakyat, that earn my respect. Now I wish they continue to produce car, hopefully each time is better then ever, I do not wish they sell Proton. Maybe as a Malaysian, we should have a fighting spirit, don’t give up. Malaysia got many talent and wise people, I wish this people can help the country develope. Politic or not, no matter what is the decision, it must be a wise one. But for now, I wish they don’t sell proton, let proton come back, and fight back the market. Then it will really earn it true marks. Go, Proton! don’t let us down!
dear razor_clawzz,
im really emotional when saying bout proton..ofcourse they need a partnership..but the offer from vw is too much.. yes im owning a pride n joy baby now… we should know..if the vw wants to conquer more than 50% from proton shares..im disagree at all…
i open 100% ur comment bout this….thanx…
dear KL-ATR..
do you have a import car huh?or u cannot afford to buy that why u only can blablabla..i can afford to buy the import car but i dont want.what the advantage if u buy import car?can u explain detail?u think what the government use the tax that they collect.they use to subsidies our fuel lol.dont be so stupid.how you can say that proton sucks people money??can u explain huh..with fact..simply dont talk rubbish..everything has its own pro and contra..what small brain person
zack_keyme988 said,
im really emotional when saying bout proton..ofcourse they need a partnership..but the offer from vw is too much.. yes im owning a pride n joy baby now… we should know..if the vw wants to conquer more than 50% from proton shares..im disagree at all…
i open 100% ur comment bout this….thanx…
___________________________________________________________________
i totally agree with u..proton only need not more than partnership..they need to clean each parasites that haunted proton until today man..VW is to much..that we trully call “be betis nk pehe”..can u imagine if other company want to buy Petronas like that VW want to buy proton…our country will be disaster
Dearest akshen_kamen,
I’m afraid to tell you that I’m smart enough to notice that you are questioning my intelligence. And yes, I’d prefer to pay RM4 fuel per litre and buy car at a cheap price. Why? It keeps mat rempits off the road, and I know I’m aware that I’m destroying the environment.
And I always remind my friends that thefuel in Malaysia is cheap. I told them I can live with prices up to RM6.7 per litre, like in the U.K.
Sorry, only you talk rubbish and you are ignorant and silly enough not to realize that. And I make polite comments by the way, and it seems you’ve taken it personally. My uncle? Yes he’s a retired analyst, and what I said about price dictatorship applies to many countries too.
Jangan bagi mak bapak malu, nko ni kurang ajar betul.
zack_keyme988, thanks for being rational. Proton is a part of my pride too.
the point proton MUST make a good car, performance effcient, and sells good,
to ACCELERATE the process, getting an established giant partner is the way,
how they gonna do it?
some alternatives proposed,..
#
razor_clawzz said,
September 14, 2007 @ 5:32 pm
Dearest akshen_kamen,
I’m afraid to tell you that I’m smart enough to notice that you are questioning my intelligence. And yes, I’d prefer to pay RM4 fuel per litre and buy car at a cheap price. Why? It keeps mat rempits off the road, and I know I’m aware that I’m destroying the environment.
And I always remind my friends that thefuel in Malaysia is cheap. I told them I can live with prices up to RM6.7 per litre, like in the U.K.
Sorry, only you talk rubbish and you are ignorant and silly enough not to realize that. And I make polite comments by the way, and it seems you’ve taken it personally……….
_________________________________________________________________________
if u want to be like that.so u can move out your ass out this country..malaysian don’t need selfish person like u. dont thing all the malaysian can afford to pay the petrol like you.dont assume that every people in malaysia can afford to pay the price of petrol like u.so you better go to the other country lah.
dont get angry la bro..are u period?hahaha
anyway u still didnt answer my question huh?how can know if proton not exist.toyolta corolla will have same price with waja..u hear you uncle said ke???give me a fact la..dont talk rubbish like you..u afraid ke?or u just talk big?
Well.. in the 80′ before Proton Saga (RM18k) came out.. Nissan Sunny less then RM30k.. After came out proton saga, Nissan Sunny RM30k X 150% = RM75k to protect the national pride… So? If proton no came out? I think Sunny will still even cheaper… U want fact? Ask those old uncles who drive 120y, datsun, VW beetle, old volvo or merc.. I can bet all of them say that the car is cheap before the proton car came out…
Here is a story…
You raise a cat. You have been feeding him good food day in day out since small. You don’t know and you refuse to learn how to train the cat to do his usual business. Now the cat is fat, lazy, does not know how to catch a rat and worse still keeps shitting all over the house. Your family is thus suffering from foul smell and worse there are lots of rats in your house. A neighbour who is good at raising cats approaches you to take over the cat and promises that he will train up the cat into a healthy, competent cat for you. In return, you have to pay the neighbour some fees for his services. What do you think, will you do it?
LittleFire85 said,
September 14, 2007 @ 7:29 pm
Well.. in the 80′ before Proton Saga (RM18k) came out.. Nissan Sunny less then RM30k.. After came out proton saga, Nissan Sunny RM30k X 150% = RM75k to protect the national pride… So? If proton no came out? I think Sunny will still even cheaper… U want fact? Ask those old uncles who drive 120y, datsun, VW beetle, old volvo or merc.. I can bet all of them say that the car is cheap before the proton car came out…
————-
Come on LittleFire85, that was some 30yrs ago!! I wonder if you remember how much roti canai was back then, not just cars but everything else was cheaper. You can’t just blame because of Proton, other cars price hiked, there are alot of other factors influencing it.
The government have a dream of making Proton a world class car maker. VW have what it takes to make Proton a world class car maker.
The question is, do VW share that dream?
What are VW’s real intentions?
I say, take your time Proton. Be thorough and be careful. Let’s not make a mistake.
mzfnd…I like your style man. Like a wise man once said, ‘be patience and you will get the best…’
Agree with LittleFire85,before Proton,cars were much cheaper,but life was very different at that time and in the 70s,Malaysia is considered a poor nation,no need to to tell history lessons here…which one would you prefer 30years ago or now?
when i first heard that vw was going to take over proton a year ago(i think), i was happy and thought it was a good idea, proton can build even better quality cars, and we will ultimately benefit from it….but when i think deeper, i was wondering, will vw let proton produce their own cars? will proton end up rebadging VWs? this at first sounds good becoz we will be able to buy golfs at rock bottom prices…but after some thinking, i dont really want to sit or drive rebadged golfs or passats, i want original designs from proton….this is why evrytime proton has a new car, i will get kinda excited, and will sure drop by the showroom within the first week to check it out… which i do not do whenever perodua launches a new car…i guess i want somethng which is uniquely malaysian……….
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mzfnd said,
September 14, 2007 @ 8:03 pm
The government have a dream of making Proton a world class car maker. VW have what it takes to make Proton a world class car maker.
The question is, do VW share that dream?
What are VW’s real intentions?
I say, take your time Proton. Be thorough and be careful. Let’s not make a mistake.
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i totally agree..its looks like that VW have thier own agenda towards proton.i think la…that we didnt know…carefull proton..
proton of course will be profitable. few more years and people will have aging wiras, 15-20 year old japanese cars and continentals all will need replacing. all proton and khazanah needs to do is just to out wait u guys. since competition is non-existant in malaysia. the low-middle class will eventually cave into pressure to replace thier cars. everyone is forced to buy a car. and since proton is the cheapest. everyone will be forced to buy a proton.
5-10 years down the track….protons cars will still be 5-10 years behind everybody elses.
no place else in the world does a protected market like this exist nowadays even with globalization.
VW also knows this and they also know they have the industrial might to outpower alot of other motoring companies and governments.
Is gov have to use our money to bail out the project, then it is depend whether this project is worth to save, if the project still bleeding if we rakyat have to continue pump in money, then I will not agree…the thing is we malaysian are not rich, salary is not high, have to pay toll here, expense here and there, just hope at least we are able to drive some decent car with decent safety, decent size, and decent price…sign…
Why are you guys fighting about what Proton and VW decide on this issue? Patriotism? Don’t make me laugh. Not even one of you tried to argue in your national language. Malu ke menggunakan Bahasa Melayu?
Apa-apa pun keputusan yang akan dibuat, biarlah untuk kebaikkan semua pihak.
Anyway, whatever it is, I hope it’s for the better of Proton.
to akshen_kamen
you really cant get facts right isn’t it?
1)Manufactures dont inflate prices, its G’s protectionist regime that impose heavy taxes that cause the prices of cars to go up. If proton does not exist, competition still exists between cars from japan, korea and euro.So prices will be still competitive. Now that is logic.
2)How old are you seriously or do you even go to school?
3)What does working with G got to do with knowing whether the prices will be the same competitive level a not? Its pure basic economic sense.
4)I rather pay more for a safer car in terms of petrol. And the other thing, petrol consumption of most japanese car has better mileage then other local cars.
5)corolla Altis and waja same price? haha if taxes are 0% , corolla will be even more cheaper than waja.
6)If you can afford, so why not buy one? or maybe you want quantity rather than quality.
7) Proton is in the situation of “get rich or die tryin” – 50 cent
8)Your proton is also not truly malaysian.Once mistsubishi says bye-bye, p1 when into a chaotic state.
9)I believe most people in this forum has driven a proton before they switch to foreign cars and everyone hopes the best for proton as it has became part of our life before.Pride and joy, yes i notice strong nationalist spirits in Malaysians and im proud of it. Why not sacrifice some pride and joy for even better and bigger PRIDE n JOY in the future. Think again.
10)What is ‘Are you period’? Your english is so powDerfull.
correction on no 8
8)Mitsubishi said bye bye and p1 went into a chaotic state.
Dear KL-ATR,
Under Pak Lah deficit is at 3.1% and continue to be lessen. Our country’s reserved is at 98 billion right now. One of good managemnet by present government except for IKBN screwdriver RM300+- instead of RM40 and for car jack RM5k++ instead of RM50? Sigh.. ACA should intervene. Take action also.
akshen_kamen…
yo kid n joker of the year… i know u tak baca buku one.. but we forgive u. this is nothing to do with bashing proton but pure facts
http://paultan.org/archives/2006/03/25/customs-cbu-vehicle-gazetted-price-list/
goto this web site and click on the PDF file of pricelist. u will not find corola inside but u can see that toyota wish MPV is even cheaper than WAJA.
BanyakMasukWorkshop
“what is wrong is that we are losing foreign exchange to japan”
what u are saying is like we cannot but nokia, motorola hand phone.. or intel, amd cpu cause we are losing foreign exchange to the west. y don the G create their national computer processor, national hand phone maker ? it is not true of what u just mention and is total rubbish!!
just look at the technology industry in Malaysia. Top brand like intel invest heavily in Pg cause the G inpose no tax for them, thus create jobs for lots of people. they even setup a Design Center in Pg.
If toyota, honda can invest in Malaysia without heavy tax, they will one day setup their design team here as well if malaysian r truely capable of it. that’s the pride i would like !!
akshen_kamen said,
September 14, 2007 @ 5:13 pm
razor_clawzz said
“Manufacturers do not inflate their prices. It’s when their products enter a certain region, and local authorities start to dictate the cost of ownership….â€
how you know about this?have your working with G ah?do you have actual face??
i give u two choice..
1. u drive a foreign car but with petrol price rm 4 per liter
2. u drive local car but the price only 1.92
————-
You give those two freaking lousy choices? It is just like ask people to choose the human faeces or cow dung? What a moronic statement!
OK now I have third choice, that is drive foreign car with lowest price under free market but the petrol remain “subsidize” at RM 1.92 per litre. This is a fact of life in Langkawi, go and travel to Langkawi to find out this naked truth for yourself.
WHY and WHY: –
1. Why relate the price of imported car to the fuel price? NAP-compliance prohibitive tax structure just mentioned Excise Duty, Import Duty and Sales Tax. The fact is there is no tax related to “fuel tax” or the like that indicate this tax is to compensate the subsidy for fuel?
2. Why we deserve for fuel subsidy, it is simply because it is gov social obligation to give back the benefit of oil wealth to the rakyat. Malaysia is still nett oil exporting country, our fuel subsidy is the lowest among OPEC country. In Brunei or UAE, their petrol cost at most half of Malaysia fuel price only.
3. Also why related the subsidy of fuel to imported car only when we have our own so call “national car”? Fuel especially diesel is consume substantially in manufacturing industry like electronic, computer or electrical sector. Why don’t related the computer, TV, fridge, washing machine to fuel subsidy. Why imported electrical, electronic and computer stuff can sell under free market price without NAP-compliance tax? Because no “national computer or electrical maker”? Why and why?
4. Why sell Proton car lowest (some below cost) in oversea market like UAE?
http://www.drivearabia.com/proton/
The facts is there is no relationship between the gov subsidy for fuel and NAP-compliance prohibitive tax for imported car. We desrve better deal with lowest car price yet enjoy the subsidy of fuel.
Don’t be fool by those protonomic moronic assumption that without high tax for imported car, there is no fuel subsidy to enjoy! And of course don’t be “katak dibawah tempurung” saying that without Proton, majority of Proton car owner able to own motorbike or bicycle only. These two assumptions are freaking self confuse false statement that defy the basic economic knowledge!
i totally agree with u..proton only need not more than partnership..they need to clean each parasites that haunted proton until today man..VW is to much..that we trully call “be betis nk peheâ€..can u imagine if other company want to buy Petronas like that VW want to buy proton…our country will be disaster
…said akshen_kamen
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thanx bro..u need 2 know that PROTON is our pride..whi will defend it if its not us…like i said b4..dasar org barat punya attitude..never be grateful..
can anybody give their opinion the true reason for VW taking over proton?..from the VW point of view…i just your own opinion only..
The reason for VW interested in Proton is purely commercial basis, especially new spanking Tg. Malim plant for their market penetration in this part of the region. VW taking over is purely on commercial basis, non of it have any element of German’s patriotism or pride involve! So on the part of Proton fear of lost of national pride and should be in the hand of local purely the myth created by themselve (i.e. cronies) for the sake of their pocket.
If Proton fail in dealing with VW tie up, and to demonstrate it is truely Malaysia, it must at least kick out the cronies!
Lotus never lost it Britishness or look more Protoness by virtue of Proton have majority controling share over it!
akshen_kamen
“can anybody give their opinion the true reason for VW taking over proton?..from the VW point of view”
no need anybody to give.. Paul Tan will give u.
http://paultan.org/archives/2006/12/07/jmepa-the-reason-volkswagen-wants-proton/
if u r new in this proton issue, pls read more b4 give ur own opinion about proton n the G.
zack_keyme988
“dasar org barat punya attitude..never be grateful..”
i just wonder what kind of “GREAT FOOLS” u have about proton..
NoToLowQuality…do you think that Proton will receive sales aids and technology transfer from VW?or it will become what mitsubishi has done to proton?i just ask u opinion
I tot seat & skoda also have the newest engine in their car.. like the TDI diesel engine and also the TSI petrol head also in their cars… i don’t think VW will not transfer.. those cars with similar technology are already in our country selling… Even they don’t want give u, u can just buy 1VW golf GTi, strip all the engine and wiring down and analyze it by yourself.. If u say some of the cars like skoda are old technology, yup i admit coz in their country not all are rich ppl.. so in high line product, still they will use back VW platform + new technology…
http://www.seat.co.uk/generator/su/uk/newToledo/site/performance/power/main,lang=en,templateId=carspec-toledo,modelyear=2008,carname=toledo,eng=2.0+TDI+DSG.html
Seat have 2.0 TDI wif DSG gearbox also…
http://new.skoda-auto.com/COM/model/octavia/facts/Pages/OctaviaFacts.aspx
Skoda have 1.8TSi engine wif DSG gearbox also… They have 6-speed manual to choose…
So if u think VW will just dump old technology to Proton after buying i doubt it.. Coz VW want more company to use his new technology so when mass produce, the new technology will be cheaper.. Do u think VW will be so stupid? already doing it to skoda & seat but not us? Sure the G will be mad at VW!
I am hoping that the engine + gearbox of proton car can improve… in this era, at least a 6-speed manual or a 5-speed auto is a must to improve FC!
i think la the new proton mpv need to use VW engine if they want to compete with other…i hope proton learning from VW..not just follow…
akshen_kamen
“…do you think that Proton will receive sales aids and technology transfer from VW?or it will become what mitsubishi has done to proton?”
yo kid.. pls don be sooo naive.. in this world there is no such thing as free food. expecting VW to give in their technology is like asking them to give everything to proton. when VW taking over proton… they are expecting proton to perform just like the other car maker. For sure help will be given such as guide as VW is more experience.
if proton fail or cannot meet VW expectation, VW will just sell it off to cut lost. that’s business.
If proton fail again after VW come help… Mati loo proton… I think it’s branding + management need to totally change over…
As far as Proton existence for more than 2 decades, what are their endeavor that truely make them success! For sure the NAP, gov other policies that make Proton survive, non of Proton products from day one can survive and have significant impact in the open market! In the true spirit of free enterprise and sustainable long term auto sector growth, domestic market is not barometer of success as far as protectnism and NAP-compliance environment is concern.
I wonder how’s the condition if P1 only rebdge VW car. Is there any spyshots? I think the curiousity of new model from the ppl not encouraging….. Maybe the bashers become ‘growing’… Copycatlah, just chop the logolah & bla bla bla… Paul also have no idea how to describe about the car…. because the car is same VW model of 3-4 yrs before…. So, Paul also copycat the testdrive report of the car.. hahaha….
Sorry Mr Paul, just my imagination….
akshen_kamen said,
September 14, 2007 @ 5:20 pm
dear KL-ATR..
do you have a import car huh?or u cannot afford to buy that why u only can blablabla..i can afford to buy the import car but i dont want.what the advantage if u buy import car?can u explain detail?u think what the government use the tax that they collect.they use to subsidies our fuel lol.dont be so stupid.how you can say that proton sucks people money??can u explain huh..with fact..simply dont talk rubbish..everything has its own pro and contra..what small brain person
—————
Dear akshen_kamen, you want proof? You shall have it. Vios in Thailand is being sold at Thai Baht 509,000 or RM 55,326 at current low exchange of 9.2. How much is Vios here? 70k? That’s how much tax the government is taking. What else do you want to explain? Do you know how to read financial reports before you call others small brain? Proof of Vios cost in Thailand at link below:
http://www.toyota.co.th/red/th/model/vios/vios_home.htm
If you can’t see the HINT of what car I drive, so sorry la. And if you cannot tell the difference between a Proton and other cars, I feel even more sorry for you.
akshen_kamen said,
September 15, 2007 @ 6:13 pm
NoToLowQuality…do you think that Proton will receive sales aids and technology transfer from VW?or it will become what mitsubishi has done to proton?i just ask u opinion
—————–
OK, I’m really curious now. What has Mitsubishi done to Proton? It was TDM who asked the Japanese for help in creating Proton and Mitsubishi was willing to be the partner. Or maybe you’re still in diapers when that happened more than 20 years ago? Can Proton exist without Mitsubishi’s help? Think about it. Jangan senang-senang lupa kan jasa orang lain selepas mendapat agenda sendiri.
KL-ATR said,
September 17, 2007 @ 12:54 pm
OK, I’m really curious now. What has Mitsubishi done to Proton? It was TDM who asked the Japanese for help in creating Proton and Mitsubishi was willing to be the partner. Or maybe you’re still in diapers when that happened more than 20 years ago? Can Proton exist without Mitsubishi’s help? Think about it. Jangan senang-senang lupa kan jasa orang lain selepas mendapat agenda sendiri.
__________________________________________________________________________
in my opinion.mitsubishi teach proton how to assemble a car but they never teach protonn how to built a car..mitsubishi only give their old technology..i think u sendiri can understand.can u stat every technologies that proton get from mitsubishi?only start from waja only proton start proton their own car..proton and mitsubishi maybe not suitable partner because mistubishi kedekut ilmu sgt..so we have to wait n see how proton-VW partner will be
proton is already dead long ago. Look at the amount of unsold cars they have lying around. I would say their main customers are from the middle to low class people. So if you’re in this category, work harder and get yourself an imported car. Cause the ‘joys’ of owning a piece of junk is simply priceless.
Of course VW is trying to be the one of the major player in this region, but the situation now is that VW has the power to sqeeze proton’s balls. proton’s already rotting in the coffers and they need a saviour like VW. So business is business. A win win situation will arrive I guess, but more towards VW’s side.
Hah, proton = my national pride = my foot. 20 years down the road and still going backwards. Now that’s what I call a true malaysian jaguh kampung.
Firstly, one of the reasons the VW-G talk is prolonged might due to “sell and repurchase†arrangement. It’s like I let you manage the business for a while, say 5 to 7 years, then when it turns into black (i.e. profitable), you will have to hand over it to me. But during the time in your hand, you can squeeze whatever nickels you possibly could from the business, i.e. from us. It might sound like political conspiracy but who knows every hidden agenda between all the giant projects, right?
Secondly, P1 co-exist with NAP. It’s like egg and chick, we cannot differentiate which comes 1st, P1 or NAP 1st? Undeniably, P1 was an ambitious and daring project. During the glorious age back in the 90s, did anyone of us plead the G to revise car policy if not abolish it? Nope. Because we were so indulged in our fantasy that we did not foreseen the threat of globalization. With AFTA coming into picture, G has no alternative but to gradually being forced to reduce the duties. Ever since NAP in force in recent years, P1’s weaknesses and vulnerabilities are exposed. Well, the next happenings to P1 I do not need to further elaborate. This is the cruelty of commercial world, a company’s success is determined and even driven by market force, obviously P1 could not sustain the fierce competition of automotive industry.
P1 is in desperate and dire situation to partner up with foreign car makers. G and even us, Malaysian might concern and even hesitate on the partnership but how long do you think P1 could survive the globalization trend by itself? Without economy of scale, improvement in engine technology, management and quality (which was arguably improved recently), P1 long term viability and commercially feasibility is a huge question mark. Should P1 be G or even financial burden of Malaysia, I mean tax payers?
Please for the sake of everybody, i.e. G, P1 and us, let VW takes it over.
akshen_kamen said,
September 17, 2007 @ 6:40 pm
in my opinion.mitsubishi teach proton how to assemble a car but they never teach protonn how to built a car..mitsubishi only give their old technology..i think u sendiri can understand.can u stat every technologies that proton get from mitsubishi?only start from waja only proton start proton their own car..proton and mitsubishi maybe not suitable partner because mistubishi kedekut ilmu sgt..so we have to wait n see how proton-VW partner will be
———————————-
OK. Do you agree that everything has a cost? Do you agree that there is no such thing as free lunch? Now, let’s look at what happened. Back in 1985, Mitsubishi agreed to partner with Proton and offered 3 models. For this partnership, Mitsubishi is NOT ALLOWED to sell ANY of their cars for 15 years. That is why Mitsubishi was never in Malaysia until a few years ago. Now, when the 3 models (Saga, Wira & Perdana) project was completed, Proton decided not to continue with Mitsubishi and instead, went into an agreement with Citreon and came out with a junk called Tiara. So, what’s the conclusion?
Do not just look at the surface. Everything happens for a reason and the reason why Proton is rotting today is because of all the politicians who are only interested about making money for their own pocket. They are the ones who supply power windows that can only work for a few weeks. They are the ones who supply signal lights that will drop off over bumps. The list goes on.
I hear a lot who complained that foreigners tamak, nak telan Proton, etc etc. Kalau bukan Mitsubishi, Proton tak kan wujud. End of story. BUT Mitsubishi did help and Proton was borned. Whether you like it or not, Mitsubishi IS the FATHER of Proton.
With that, I want you to put YOURSELF into Mitsubishi’s position. As the technology partner you provide all the blueprint and components to Proton and Proton then pass them to local manufacturers who then fabricate the parts and supply them back to Proton. However, instead of quality products guarantee, they only guarantee HIGH PROFIT to these politically controlled suppliers but LOW QUALITY to Proton. Who lose? ALL THE PEOPLE WHO BUYS AN INFERIOR PROTON CAR. If you are Mitsubishi, will you be happy? A global standard Japanese manufacturer suddenly go into a partnership and end up creating cars with power windows that don’t work and signal lights that drops off after going over a pothole? Kalau kat Jepun, Mitsubishi dah buat recall dan beri public apology. Kat sini ada pe? Standard la, ni hal biasa. Semua Proton sama je. Memang cam tu. Bangga ke? Third world standard ni? Malaysia’s Pride and Joy? Comparable with Mexican cars?
Proton can only be Malaysia’s Pride and Joy WHEN they produce cars that is ON PAR with Japanese. Not when they are worse than Korean el cheapo. Can Proton be on par with Japanese? OF COURSE! If we can assemble Mercedes, BMW, Audi, WHY NOT? HOW? By removing ALL the politicians from Proton and let it run as a proper company. As simple as that.
Now do you understand why VW wants these conditions? Because VW wants to make sure that Proton WILL BE successful. They can turn Proton into a world class manufacturer! But how many Malaysians what that? No… they rather have non-working windows.
f**k proton. its place for inefficient people. come on. u guys know it. just kill proton. err…or sell it to people who can manage it better…
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gogo2 said,
September 18, 2007 @ 3:29 pm
f**k proton. its place for inefficient people. come on. u guys know it. just kill proton. err…or sell it to people who can manage it better…
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u think easily proton can close shop..it easier to kill u than kill proton..u are crazy man..what a mess
May I ask, It that the only VW conditions? .. Yet to find out more .. maybe next year 2008
VW + Proton + government (GLC) = ?
VW + Proton = GoodPartnership (WIN-WIN)
Never the less, GLC will not be so easily back down and furthermore as domestic sales and revenue coming in from new models. Maybe Proton survived this round, but it have to prove itself to be one of the leading international automaker..
So better luck next time VW. I’m sure you have bigger plans working with Proton if GLC not involved.