The Japanese are a long way behind Europe in diesel technology, but catching up has never been a big priority for them. Understandably so, since their major markets Japan, North America, China and ASEAN are petrol dominated, and they’re just bit part players in Europe.
But with high growth markets such as India embracing diesel in a big way, Japanese brands may lose out in the long term to rivals like Volkswagen. Market leader Maruti Suzuki buys oil burners from Fiat, and No.2 brand Hyundai has its own diesels, but companies like Honda have nothing in the bag at present. They realise this, and are doing something about it.
“The rapid dieselisation of the market has happened only in the last one year, as the price difference between diesel and petrol has gone up from Rs 10 to Rs 21. We had to prioritise our efforts to be a big brand with big volumes, which will come from Brio. We are developing a diesel engine in Japan to power City,” revealed Jnaneswar Sen, Senior VP Sales & Marketing at Honda Siel India.
A City Diesel won’t debut anytime soon, though. “It could take us more than two years,” Mr Sen added. Surely they’ll be hoping that not too much ground is lost in the process.
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About 3-4 years ago, Honda said they’ll introduce diesel cars to US by 2010. Haven’t heard any more news of that so far.
Now they say they need to catch up in India and it could take more than 2 years to introduce a diesel car. But Honda has the i-CTDi and i-DTEC engines in Europe, although not very good ones. So why do they need to take so long? Is it because they have trouble making good diesel engines smaller than 2.2l?
They should go and see how far Hyundai has gone with their diesel technology… The latest U2 and R-series diesel engine are fantastic!
i think the photo is misleading because after 2 years, there will be another new City.
Can you provide us a pic of the “next gen Honda City” from the future?
We promise to swap this pic with yours :)
Oh, snap!
Danny for the WIN!
when all this will happen in m’sia???? as petrol price going to hike soon…
Honda is lack in Diesel Engine Development as they do not have commercial vechicle & pick up truck like Toyota, Mitsubishi & Nissan.
Their current diesel lineup is actually inspired by Isuzu engines. At least those were the engines they stripped and tested to learn. :-)
I thought i-CTDi replaced those Isuzu engines?
Yes, they did. Designed by the same guy who gave ricer boys the VTEC – Nagahiro. A famous diesel engine hater. But they learned to build a cleaner diesel engine than Isuzu’s.
Honda is so far behind Hyundai in India market… With the latest Verna diesel being launched weeks ago, the City is going to have very hard time in India!
I’m not sure how japanese do things, but as far as I know, what hyundai do is that they bought engines from others like Mitsubishi, tear it all up, do research on it and improve the current engine, that is why they can improve so fast.
If they do it on ground 0, it can be done, but waste of time and money.
wow…hyundai got it?wheres honda?diesel not used in high rev v-tec…dats y they dont giv a damn~
if honda don’t get into the game (turbodiesel or turbocharge petrol engines), they will be left behind..
I don’t know why you journalists are so excited by diesel engines. The price of diesel in Malaysia isn’t much cheaper than petrol,then you have the black smoke and sulphur smell, dirty pumps…the ivtec petrol engine is already fuel efficient, quiet and smoother than diesel…
I don’t know why certain members of the public are so interested in spreading hatred against diesel.
The price of diesel in Malaysia is 10 sen cheaper than RON95 petrol currently, yes there’s the characteristic diesel smell but who asks you to stand outside your car and idle your car for very long?
SOME pumps are dirty but each liter of diesel brings you further than the equivalent petrol liter so you can cut down the amount of refuels you have to make a month as much as HALF.
You can have your ivtec engine while I enjoy my 2.0 liter turbodiesel that took me 930km with 63 liters of fuel during my last refuel with mixed 70% city 30% highway driving. On top of that, peak torque comes in at below 2,000rpm so it’s a real enjoyable drive… while you wait for your ivtec to kick in or whatever.
The problem in M’sia is we can’t even get a cheap diesel sedan, so not much point talking about it unless you are able to afford a 320d…
What are the choices we have? Shall we hate diesel or hate M’sia G? Probably the G will prefer us to hate diesel instead…
got focus tdci, twin clutch summore
Focus tdci is not a sedan, and it’s above 100k, so it’s not affordable…
Focus tdci available in both sedan and hatch.
What do u have against i-VTEC?I do knw that diesel is good.In Europe,most of the cars there are diesel.But why you comparison is on i-VTEC?
Nothing against ivtec, it was just in reference to his original comment where he was the one that brought up ivtec as a comparison in the first place.
Oops,sorry.Didn’t notice that.Haha,sorry,Paul.Btw,didn’t Honda used to have an i-Dtec diesel engine??Correct me if i’m wrong though.
the original poster mentioned ivtec, paul just respon
Paul, there is no spread of hatred, just reality. Has the Focus diesel been a runaway success? Is BMW selling more diesel X1/X3/X5 compared to petrol equivalent? The answer is NO, the facts speak for themselves. There are many reasons why consumers prefer petrol over diesel, and it isn’t because they feel such a need to reach peak torque at 2k rpm like how you so covert. Anyway, what mileage one gets depends as much on how one drives, his/her usage patterns…maybe for you, only a diesel would suffice, but not necessarily everyone else.
The beauty of diesel is that whether you drive slow or hard, you still save ALOT over petrol, just depends whether you save a modest amount or a huge difference. Harve once drove to Johor and back in 1 tank of his W211 diesel and he was touching 200km/h often.
(Typical diesel basher will ignore my above paragraph and repeat what you said that it depends on how you drive)
FYI I’ve only ever seen diesel X1 on the road, and the X3 is only available in diesel, so I’m not sure where you are quoting your petrol:diesel sales breakdown for the X1 and X3 from.
And you can’t equate sales figures to the quality of product, it only reflects the long long road to go in terms of consumer education and awareness, and everytime one step is taken forward, rumour mongers will push it one step back.
FACT (not hearsay) of the matter is whatever you consider is “fuel efficient enough” for a petrol engine is very far from what is “fuel efficient” for a diesel engine, you can easily go 30% to 50% further on each liter of diesel, but people aren’t educated enough on this.
FYI, in 1st quarter of 2011, BMW sold 54 units of X1 18i, 22 units of X1 20d, 13 units of X5 35i and…wait for this….a whopping TWO (2) units of X5 30d. As for X3, I refer to previous generation since new one only sold in diesel, however, I’ll bet every ringgit in my bank that when their new turbo petrol 4 cylinder is available, the petrol version will outsell the diesel. Maybe BMW isn’t advocating diesel hard enough, or maybe BMW owners aren’t as educated as you, must be the latter, Paul?
Like I said, higher sales figures doesn’t mean a certain product is better.
I don’t expect you to understand anyway since in your original comment you mentioned you think that ivtec’s fuel efficiency is good enough, especially for Honda in India. Only people who don’t know the fuel economy potential of diesel engines would think that.
And your reference to the last generation X3… since when was there a big push for diesel with the last generation X3? It was just a by the way launch towards the end of the lifecycle together with the rest of the sedan diesels.
I believe there’s a place for both petrol and diesel engines. No matter how advanced diesels become, there’s no replicating the pleasure of a sweet high revving petrol – Alfa Twin Spark and screaming VTECs come to mind.
But there’s no doubt that diesels are more efficient, even when compared to the modern DI + Turbo petrols. And since the average car buyer doesn’t care much about 7,000 rpm action, diesel’s low end torque and better mileage will serve them better.
It’s just that not many people have personally experienced a modern diesel engine to know its benefits. The lorry and old taxi stigma is deep. Doesn’t help that we don’t have many choices here either.
diesels are not just “more efficient”… they’re “much much much more efficient”…
Cleaner too.
I have to agree with Paul. Malaysians’ perception of diesel cars is still that of the old beat up Merc taxis spewing black smoke and killing every living creature behind it.
But in Europe, diesel cars are selling so fast that they go at a premium.
Try out the Focus TDCi for yourself. It’s a nice ride and the cheapest new diesel. Not as noisy as you think. And I believe Ford claims it can go 1000km per full tank. Even if you discount 30%, 700km is still good.
And more powerful Too…cc to cc vs a petrol
hahaha…good one Paul….
this ivtec are more suitable for race track, or unless that person drive wt 2nd gear all day long at 6,000rpm…..wow, will sure need to own an oil refinery for this, huge petrol bills
there u go…another ignorant…
and since u can see this blog…why dont u google up diesel n petrol….
If you have never drive a diesel powered car for at least a tank full, you are making a fool out of yourself. Any stock diesel cars on sale can smoke ur Honda stock cars and make barbecue. Excluding Isuzu and Toyota pickups.
This party of diesels would ended sooner or later.
The rule of thumb; supply vs demand
Once the demand for diesel increases (worldwide), the price of diesel will shoot up. Running petrol or diesel will cost the same. Yield for diesel from refinery wasnt that high especially for low sulphur, euro 5 type diesels. Chances of diesel price getting more expensive are high, like what happened in the UK.
Still diesel have their own advantage in term of power density per volume.
Folks in the UK are mixing in used cooking oil. :-)
Well, one word for Honda: being COMPLACENT. They’ve been too comfort that Koreans are catching up faster than they start to notice it.
My next car would be 2011 Kia Sportage.. No 2nd hand value, who cares!!
“Surely they’ll be hoping that not too much ground is lost in the process.”
That’d be completely wishful thinking on their part, Danny. Remember what happened when Chevrolet brought the Cruze to US, 2 years after its EU debut? It’s a great car, but lagged behind its rivals. Honda’s already at a disadvantage here, since Hyundai isn’t about to sit quietly and let Honda come in.
Yup. But since India is not completely “dieselised” yet, Honda’s current offerings still have much life in them. In any case, better late than never!
Being a diesel truck driver I can confirm that once you get into a diesel, there is little turning back. Its cheaper, its efficient, it has high torque and it has no black smoke like the good old chimney.
It is safer too as diesel does not burn when torched. It has to be compressed in high pressure and spark off the combustion, as a result, the engine is generally tougher to cater for the high pressure within.
I am now waiting to see how efficient a Hybrid Diesel will be ! Now thats next gen engine for fuel efficiency.
Hybrid diesel is no pipe dream:
http://paultan.org/2010/10/11/paris-2010-peugeot-3008-hybrid-4-worlds-first-diesel-hybrid/
the only good news from honda in the last 100 years…
keep it up…
at the end of the day its basically how a certain type of engine fits into ur lifestyle..diesel and petrol have thier places..so yea….but Honda is lagging in engine tech overall…the fact is after all these years they still brand and base thier marketing on an engine technology that is as common as air is kinda troubling….and on another note…i dunno about the rest here but i dun think everyone buys a car based on sales figures….but we malaysians do have a ‘monkey see monkey do’ attitude so i might be wrong….
Sad
Sad to say that the virtues of diesel power is still lost on average malaysians. Of only there were more affordable
Yeap agreed, based on those comment from ivtec/vvti/mivec worshipper….most Msian are still ignorant abt the modern diesels.
Diesel is really the way to go. Forget about hybrid when it comes to fuel efficient. I will rather drive a high torque car and still don’t guzzle the fuel than driving an underpowered pondan hybrid. It’s like u go for diet program, one needs u to cut down all your favourate foods another allows u to eat your favourate food and still stay slim.
And the diesel hybrid ala pug 3008 will be the ultimate hybrid….bigger…more power…but same fuel consumption compared to those “pondan” petrol hybrid (prius/insight)…hehehehehe
Of all Japanese car makers, I think Mazda is the most active in diesel engine development. They have always been very focus in European market.
Diesel torque is intoxicating…..power wt hybrid like FC
In my opinion, the best REAL WORLD petrol engined by Honda is the discontinued IDSI….Good peak torque at low 2,000 – 3,000 rpm for REAL WORLD usage…not the Peak torque of above 4,000 rpm of this i-vtec…
Come to think of it, those IDSI have DIESEL LIKE characteristic… hehehehehe
the PR department of japanese big three i.e. toyota , nissan and honda is so bad
nissan just sat on the fence for 5 years with overpriced imports of x trail and teanna
toyota spent 10 years with 2 models camry and corolla, and when the 3rd model was introduced the land cruiser prado it too was an import wiith a 4 liter PETROL engine.
honda saw good sales thanks 2 their good resale value, but they still suffer from huge cost in terms of spare and service, comparable 2 VW, and yes no diesel, damn it honda do what suzuki did, source from fiat or VW