It seems like today is spyshot day. Spyshots of three new Proton models all at once? We saw what could be the new Saga replacement model or Proton BLM earlier, and the GEN2 Hatchback with CPS too. The next model that we’re anticipating Proton to launch is the new C-Segment sedan that we’ve all been referring to as the Proton GEN2 Sedan, though the lack of badging on the rear does not confirm this until the car is launched.
This white sedan was spotted near the HICOM Proton traffic light by a reader’s friend, who was kind of enough to send it in to me. It’s a pretty high res photo, so you can see some portions that I’ve enlarged after the jump. Do let me know if you want any other section of the photo enlarged, I’ll add it to this post.
One thing that we can observe from the many spyshots that are being captured is all these Proton cars are hitting the road for test drives more and more frequently than before, which means the cars are nearing production… I’m excited. Are you?
A very clear look at the new wheel design. It’s a simple 7-spoke design, nothing strange or bling here. Tyres are Goodyear tyres.
Boot looks like it has potential to be fairly large, I’d say at about 400 to 450 litres.
bila kluar di pasaran ya….
loh…still the same taillight kah?
tyres looks more like a 60 profile tyres rather than 55 in the curent gen2..looks thicker than 55….safe to say the rear light doesnt need to be covered as its 100% same as the curent hatchback ! the seats are different since thy hav a seperate headrest rather than one piece like the curent gen2….im more interested in the interior since thy said it will hav improved interior
Cut paste cut paste cut paste cut paste…. fark~~~
if this one cut paste, then VW jetta also cut paste la… Focus also… talk c***…
i feel they shld have made the backlight abit different than Gen.2's… maybe abit more classier (uncle-ish? Paul shld like then.. hehe)
and referring to previous post, I hope the BLM, will be priced must lesser than this Gen.2 sedan, or both will end up competing against each other… Proton dealers have complained too, that Proton models pricing dont have enuff gap..
but maybe if the BLM is fully Proton made, & dont need to pay royalty, maybe can be much cheaper… but then again, a Savvy manual also is already 40k… *sigh*….
aiya potong cars like this one mah.
cheap things no good things
The rims look small, and the gap under the wheel arch is big. The car doesn't going to look sporty if proton use the small rims as standard.
Most important of all is still the pricing. If its priced at rm55-58K, it is still considered expensive for a extended version of the Gen2.
Readily accepted pricing would be around rm45-48K. Beyond that, I think it would be a hard sale.
Still a try for P1.. the point is P1 MUST improve its quality issue first.. or else any effort will not bear the fruit!!
new info from fren inside proton.. this car will be launch this end of july along with waja cps. but unfortunately, no cps in this sedan bcoz it will be sell cheaper than gen2 hatch(got cps).. but the cool features inside are no more complaint rear head room, no more old gear knob auto like previous one. also u can open ur bonnet with using the remote key like vios.new scheme colour, arm rest driver like waja(2 layer), the return of glove box etc. the waja cps will be price at around rm66k to rm 69 k. the powertrain will boost up to 127 hp. no more lagging or lower end torque or bla..bla.. wat ever pun, jus wait this july..
only 17hp increase in bhp???
look carefully, it seems that you can open your boot from the outside not like the current gen2.
i think this car will probably come out some where near year end or begining of next year. because my fren at toyota say there will be the new facelift of vios coming in at the end of the year
Please don't call the current Gen 2 a hatch. Its a fastback, just like the Aeroback is a fastback. Satria Neo is a hatch. Pug 205 GTi is a hatch. Note; I never mentioned both cars in the same sentence.
What is refreshing is to actually see activities in Proton which is shrugging off the current Merger/Acquisition issue. I've always thought the M&A is too long drawn and bogging down necessary Time to Market of their products, which they really need.
the 7 spoke rim look nice ^_^
if the bumper remain the black line at there , then it will look like perdana v6 bumper…… with the lining it will look nicer ^_^
2 cents comment
It's interesting to see that they still bothered to try and disguise/cover up the rear. It's as good as uncovered, lol.
What is refreshing in this new car is, like mentioned by prev commentors, return of glove box, improved rear headroom, and ability to open the boot from outside (there's a keyhole). So it's back to a 'proper' car with 'proper' features.
boot that can fit a suan?
the first pic shows a new seat for the Gen2 sedan too. I hope its more comfy den the current sporty-wannabe. I wud prefer the Neo seat. Looks better and a lot more comfy.
I wish Proton all the best with all the recent test mule. hopefully things turn for better with the release of all these cars.
I hv seen these two cars …both black GEN2 Sedan and BLM running around in Putra Heights, Subang Jaya. Couldn't give a damn since the design sucks. Maybe Volkswagen have to come in to give some P1 Designers idea how to desing cars.
Why G is taking so long is frustrating. Just settle it and sell it la.
it doesn't look nice if the gen 2 sedan …. erm … i think need recreate the rear part … not just only add on only … so ugly if look at spyshoot … like the new waja only change the front grill n rear lamp … that one not call new … i'm waiting the neo sedan
http://paultan.org/archives/2006/08/09/more-proto…
then when they produce neo sedan u will say "i prefer gen2 sedan".. wat a typical basher……
To w_lighter, other car manufacturers also "cut paste". For example, Volkswagen cars have almost the same grill on different model, front lights and so on. Toyota Camry Japanese model without bodykit…. then add some bodykits sell to other country as Toyota Camry. Our Malaysia Toyota Camry current model in Australia known as Toyota Aurion. Nothing wrong. All car manufacturers find ways to cut costs.
To PTAllTheBest, cheap things no good thing? What kind of perseption is that? No good thing, free one I also don't want. Cheap doesn't mean not good. Try to compare Mercedes Benz C-Class with Toyota Camry…. which one cheaper? Toyota right? However, they have better quality and more reliable then Mercedes Benz and now become top manufacturer of the world. Not Mercedes Benz and not General Motors.
No worries normaluser, rims and tyres easy to change. Hahah….
NiceCar, I agree with you.
Thanks mr.proton for the information. So we have CPS for Waja too. I'm sure the engine comes with VIM too. Cool.
pheonix_comet, it is new Toyota Vios NOT facelift. 3rd generation. Your friend gave you wrong information. Come with J, E and G variants.
Hope Proton improve and be competitive again.
Uninspiring design. The designer just made the tail longer and called it sedan.
To demio121. I agree with you.
To mr.proton. Those basher always a basher.
sxe10r said….like the new waja only change the front grill n rear lamp … that one not call new. Well, when Toyota Vios (current model) launched. They also call it new. Mercedes Benz also same when they facelifted their models and call it new. All the same. Get it. Not only Proton. So waht's wrong with that?
kenneth1985, nothing wrong. Even Aston Martin and other car manufacturers do that. Look at Aston Martin, all designs look alike. Put it different engine capacity and cosmetic changes…. call the models with different name.
Yee, why same rear lamps, make it different lah, we could use some variety. What's the fun when sedan and hatch look alike.
Boot is a nice addition, the car really needs that additional storage space. Would be nice if Proton can somehow improve internal leg and head space too.
Hmm… the marketing of P1 really makes me think weired.. They already got Waja and now going to lunch Gen.2 sedan.. The VIM technology seems to only inplement on 1.3 campro engine only… Maybe it is cheaper technology? Then the 1.6 engine will only be implemented with CPS not VIM both?!? The proton may hit him own market.. How gen.2 hatchback and sedan sell well with same engine with WAJA? They should come out like 1.3L & 1.5L Campro engine to fight with VOIS or City.. While WAJA came out with 1.6 & 1.8L Campro to fight with Civic, Altis & Sentra… The new saga can come out with only 1.3L Campro or with the 1.1L savvy engine to sell it cheaper to fight againts P2 and other K-car category… Haiz.. I think P1 marketing may goyang loo…
LittleFire85 said,
June 21, 2007 @ 10:56 am
Hmm… the marketing of P1 really makes me think weired.. They already got Waja and now going to lunch Gen.2 sedan..
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thats why in my previous post i told u that at 1st stage gen2 sedan doesnt have cps. only the fastback gen2.. this is bcos waja will be launch at d same time n will be sell at rm65k to rm 70k with more cool features. the gen2 sedan was produce to fulfill the needs of family man which wira done before.. the hot selling proton.. until now stil got buyer.
my friend told that this gen-2 sedan will launched in end july or early august..
wahh… waja with CPS…i'm definitely damn excited on this…
:)
Most of the complaint in Gen2 Hatchback is being counter in Gen2 Sedan. Glove box, Low torque (2nd stage), Head space, many more….
But for sure somewhere people will blame proton, creating new issue.
I wonder why…
So if the new Gen.2 sedan dont implement the 1.6L CPS do u think many ppl will buy it? It will just wasting the money in investing the engine model itself.. Even it is cheaper then WAJA, how much will it be? RM60k or 55k? Why our car each time got upgrade sure must up the price? U see the facelifted with new engine 3.2-3.6L VW toureg dont even up the price.. but why P1 want up until nearly 10k for the CPS model? Fishy! I dont think the Gen.2 sedan will fullfill the Wira place.. Most ppl think that the Waja is the replacement.. While Gen.2 is the model to fight againts other hatchback models..
Their first planning is like this, Waja for Family cars= Sedan, Gen.2/ Satria.neo for young people who want sportier looks= hatchback, Savvy for young students or start working people,sport=Small hatchback, SAGA for low budjet people who only want to drive an entry car=medium hatchback… I doubt the new replacement SAGA will only sell 30K, it will rise back maybe until RM35k-38K.. If new CPS Waja rise until 70k, i think many people will just buy Vois or City since almost near their range… if P1 want to sell good, Waja should be replace with new model, not facelifted again..
What P1 need it to come out with SUV or MPV car not another louzy sedan… Ask anyone here dont we bored enough always P1 only sedan, hatchback cars? Why not a new SUV or MPV? If come with a wagon car or family car like Stream or Wish, which can take 6-7 ppl inside should be better right? In Malaysian most malays family usually got more then 5 family members, how a sedan & hatchback hold them all? This is my thought, i am not saying u r wrong mr.proton.. just that i felt maybe is just "hangat-hangat tahi ayam" lagi… The sales may even have a great fight againts the rumoured launch of New Vois and Altis, Nissan coming Latio this month the price is out: The range is between RM82,700-RM99,900. Go and ask, even Vois new price also known already.
i agree with littlefire85 on that pricing part….if proton really want to make a comeback, besides QC issues…..they need to make their products be of good value to customers, same price with better specs tend to impress buyers more….if price increase still ppl gonna think twice coz if proton gonna hit 70k…plenty of choices within that region.
i'm very impressed when they gave airbags, ABS bla bla for Waja without price increase….thats a good move….but now judging from response….doesnt seem that good eh? not to mention although it gets a new engine…the design is pretty much old….7 years.
proton.com said,
June 21, 2007 @ 11:25 am
Most of the complaint in Gen2 Hatchback is being counter in Gen2 Sedan. Glove box, Low torque (2nd stage), Head space, many more….
But for sure somewhere people will blame proton, creating new issue.
I wonder why…
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Does this mean the Gen.2 Hatchback model will only have new engine but not counter the problem ppl complain? Hmm… P1 always so late on replaying ppl complains, the European car makers like Merc recently always fast on fixing ppl complain with better quality and not higher price.. Why p1 always up up the value? Can anyone list up the things P1 should be price higher? Maybe they might take some comission or royalty from the car value and put it in their high officer pocket when price high? Well i just want the P1 company to be good to all the rakyat living in Malaysia… We r really test rats for the company.. My friend works in London say they got quality control on P1 cars when imported to UK, He even told me that if anything spoilt, they immediately replace it with new 1 in UK when servicing their cars.. since their car volumn is low that why they are no complains.. Most of the spare parts sell over there are genuine not bogus.. I think maybe in our country a lot of Bogus stuff are mixed to earn extra money, that why this has made a lot of ppl scare of P1 cars… I supported P1 cars, just that my aim is to get the new Satria Neo GTI! Saving money now… $$$
LittleFire85
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bro.. u wrong man.. the reason why this gen2 sedan doesnt hav cps at the 1st stage is to sell it at the price below gen2 fast back.. tu pun xpaham ka… thats why waja cps pice at rm65k to rm 69k.. then this gen2 sedan will replace the aging wira sedan that always got a buyer… wat a basher u… im sure even proton produce a product like bmw .. a people like u jus know to bash .. but u dont even hav a saga….. haha
According to proton tech, there will be current gen2 using CAMPRO with CPS and gen2 sedan CAMPRO without CPS. For BLM using CAMPRO 1.3. So proton will slowly reduce buying engine from mitsu.
There will be WAJA MC3 with new gearbox. So stay tuned….
Well sorry i have a 1.6L wira.. so i know the problem of P1.. The cruise control, power window and trottle body is the worst hit by P1 cars… U went any work shop also got P1 cars inside fixing…
Mr-proton dont u think the new car should not be up the value? We working in private not up Gaji, if u work with G good loo… But not all people here gaji also naik! Minyak next year rumored also naik! tiap-tiap kali barang naik! Minyak+ spare part naik! Tepung naik! Why everything in Malaysia always naik harga?!? Our US dollar is gaining strong but still naik harga… If u want to impress the user to come back to buy P1 cars, the pricing should be stay but not up! I think u dont know maths 1, each time loan car how many money the banks earns from us? The more we loan, the more we have to burden.. now up harga lagi.. Quality issue must up, but not the price since P1 name is worst..
what i mean is what arcana said,
June 21, 2007 @ 11:48 am
i agree with littlefire85 on that pricing part….if proton really want to make a comeback, besides QC issues….. " they need to make their products be of good value to customers, same price with better specs tend to impress buyers more "….if price increase still ppl gonna think twice coz if proton gonna hit 70k…plenty of choices within that region.
little fire.. isaid this gen2 sedan will be price at below gen2 fastback. so it is cheaper than current gen2.. so why u said 'semua naik'.. jual gen2 sedan murah pun kate mahal.. dun la… well i worked with private.. owning a neo.. awesome…
i know what u mean.. Sedan sell cheap.. but what i mean is the new WAJA and Gen.2 hatchback! Aiyo! U tak faham apa saya cakap tadi meh! Mau cakap melayu! Saya support P1, jika saya tak support mana mau saya beli Satria neo!
uwaa… boleh cakap melayu… saya tau la… klau waja jual sama harga dgn itu waja… banyak susah la mau jual satu ploduct sama harga.. sulah tentu gen2 sedan tak ala olang beli kelana olang akan beli itu waja lengan cps… waa…. little fire.. dun ever dream of neo gti… the r3 division already produce prototype r3 neo but the parent company proton bhd is not interested to produce car with small volume cos it will took high expanses to produce it..
saya tau la… klau waja jual sama harga dgn itu waja… banyak susah la mau jual satu ploduct sama harga.. sulah tentu gen2
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sorry i mean the gen2 sedan with waja…
just to sum it…..proton is for our common rakyat who wants to own a decent car without burdening the pocket so much……these are price conscious buyers.
if keep naik harga then susah man…..if brand name good nvm la….still got loyal buyers……nama buruk macam ni of course need to do something to impress potential buyers by offering more for same or less rite? it doesnt only relate to waja of course…..should be across proton models.
drop in 40% sales is not a joke man……1 year sudah macam ni…..next turn another 20% hancur la……its getting much more competitive every year and even japs are fighting hard to keep market share.
side note: cheers to nissan for bi-xenon lamps, keyless entry and go, new CVTC engine as an upgrade from previous VTC and for the same price.
Oleh itu saya recommended that Waja should up to 1.6L-1.8L, Jika Gen.2 tak mau lumba sama Waja their engine put between 1.5L & 1.3L to fight againts City and Vois… Aiyo.. Ini P1 marketing pun confuse u with me.. Orang biasa tengok kereta CC dan segmen.. Saya perasan bahawa Gen.2 should lawan sama City dan Vois dalam segmen 1.5L.. Kalau 1.5L lagi murah engine compare 1.6L campro..
betul tu… waja shud be up to 1.6 – 1.8 L. bcos its an affordable executive car below perdana. gen2 to suit the sederhana people that cant afford waja..
I have not been the greatest fan of proton since my first car in 1994 (2nd hand magma 1.5S). I never come back on my decision to buy only non-proton, but this spyshot, IMHO, looks cool. Looks beauty from rear, tail not too short not too long. Just need the tail lamp to be more pronounced.
I wish proton all the best larr. And for goodness sake, AGAIN pls get your pricing right this time.
Sebab itu akan ada upgrade WAJA with new gearbox (tiptronic) and price will up skit. So current GEN2 CAMPRO with CPS will up price sikit juga. GEN2 sedan price between wira and current GEN2. and BLM price between current iswara and wira.
Still boleh pilih punya lah.
the crash.. u keje proton ker? btau diaorg upgrade tp jgn naik harga konfem proton get back their territory…
mr. proton and LittleFire85,
don't have to argue so much about it, will til the car be launched and see how it goes and how well it does. please also check out other automotives companies that offered few models with same segment, engines capacities etc within market. so don't see any problem to compete with each other. infact more options to offer is better to compete not within but to other manufacturers. please see further, mates. my goodness. hahaha.
mr. proton, if proton were to make cars like BMW, then we talk about it, otherwise is a whim and fancy story. am i rite? hahahaha.
Huh… is proton going to waste more money? just stick with your Proton Saga.. enuf to survive cukup la…
NoToLowQuality said,
Huh… is proton going to waste more money? just stick with your Proton Saga.. enuf to survive cukup la…
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When Proton can not comes out with new models, people bashing. When Proton guys try and work to improve the quality and safety, come out with new models and so on, you also want to complaint? If you want Proton to close factory, think about those who work in Proton…. locally and other countries.
Overall…I think people start to think positive about proton. With introduction of new model, technology,MC3,VIM,CPS etc…P1 is moving forward…
damn, so many new P1 variant coming out. but will you buy one?
Paul, how about a poll, and see who will buy these new Protons?
If the poll says nobody is buying, will be a good indicator for proton to stop producing and waste more of our money.
haiyaa…fr the very early should push out this model in order to produce the 'grand' wira( oledi 10yrs++), but the front headlamp still the same no vary r?? hope to give some challenge to the coming up japanese and korean model…
nice……….a poll u ask? great idea! paul., how bout accepting eantautjk idea?
actually, i like proton a lot… my family have been buying proton for all these years..and proton cars are quite a good car. I am anticipated and eager like bro paul tan about the new launches. I hope that proton can be as good as it is even though afta is implemented. Even car like toyota, honda, nissan also have defects…….. But proton is just unlucky to have More defects than them…. Believe Me proton will not wind up! Is our country reputation and our rakyat pride……
timber8115…..i like ur spirit! make's me happy!
Is it worth it to spend another hard earned 10K for CPS for an improvement of 17hp? thats almost RM590 per improvement per horsepower! spending a few thousands on aftermarket bolt ons could reach that mark probably with loads of spare cash to spend on a date.
1.6L DOHC @ 110hp is more than enough for daily drive unless it sucks at low end torque. I dun see Vios drivers complaining about their 1.5L DOHC @ 107hp engine.
At times like these ppl look into more fuel efficient cars. Though CPS+VIM is a welcomed addition, it debut probably is a bit late.
If CPS mechanism is similar to cam profile changing similar to VTEC, VVTL-i, MIVEC etc, then mileage wise should not be any different with the non CPS variant if you are cruising under 3K RPMS; assuming the CPS does not kick in at 3K RPMS that is.
CPS, if indeed similar to VTEC, VVTL-i, MIVEC etc i.e cam profile changeover at X RPMS, then it is definitely fun; but that fun does not come cheap.
VIM would be more sensible if coupled with CPS. If 1.3L CPS-less (if there is such rumoured engine) engines are fitted with VIM it would not be much use too as VIM is more usable for low to mid RPM range and will do nothing on the high end as the air flow at high end is already restrictive as it is unless CPS is there to take over.
Might as well keep the 1.3L as it is but intake manifold optimised for low to mid end RPMS. Would be more sensible and economical to produce.
CPS (VTEC) song anyone? lolz
I think this new Gen 2 Sedan facelift can tahan another 10 years or 20 years.
Gen2 Sedan is crucial for Proton future. Hopefully this model can turn around Proton into profit.
i'm sure this car will make an impact. This is the car everyone is waiting for. Something to replace the old WIra. Majority of people dont care about power. They just want an affordable sedan with a big boot. Power is a bonus.
As for the pricing, theoratically it will be cheaper than the Gen-2 Fastback. Look at Wira & wira Aerobak, Iswara & Iswara Aeroback. All the sedans are cheaper..
Just my 2 cents..!!!
mr. proton said,
the crash.. u keje proton ker? btau diaorg upgrade tp jgn naik harga konfem proton get back their territory…
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No lah… cuma very rapat dgn proton :-) BTW skrg ni VW tgh buat audit semua branch proton.. study market… so stay tuned…
I doubt it is going to go far. From the looks of it, it's an elongated back which normal marque would offer at the launch of their cars and not about 2 years later. The longer it takes to develop, the more costly it's going to be and need more time to recover.
Another irrelevance to the market. Still not targeting the market right.
eantautjk said,
June 21, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
damn, so many new P1 variant coming out. but will you buy one?
Paul, how about a poll, and see who will buy these new Protons?
If the poll says nobody is buying, will be a good indicator for proton to stop producing and waste more of our money.
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Lol, good idea, because PTBlog truely represent all kind of people that something to do with car. 1st and last question to ask is "will you buy one?"
But look at the link below: –
http://www.proton.com/about_proton/press/full_det…
"CONSUMERS VOTE PROTON AS A READER'S DIGEST TRUSTED BRAND FOR A SECOND YEAR RUNNING"
Look into more detail of the content: –
1. "Such an achievement represents a genuine recognition of consumers' approval, reflecting consumers' choice of their most trusted and favorite brands among the thousands available in the market."
– "brands among thousands ……" Hei, this is dubious claim, P1 don't be joking, the nos of car manufacturers and/or the brands in the world market I can fairly said is not more than 50 brands?
2. "In being named a trusted brand, consumers were asked to rate the brands they choose on six qualitative criteria: Trustworthiness, Credible Image, Quality, Value, Understanding of Customer Needs, and Innovation."
– Trustworthiness? – ask the general public!.
– Quality – "well understood open door pay toll"?
– Customer Needs – lawn mover Savvy, Juara, Tiara, stone age milo tin Iswara is still consider as meet customer needs?
Innovation – Ha, ha, ha, ha ….. they do a same tihing for Iswara for the last 20++ year is call innovation? Perhaps come out wit CPS, airbag, MME editions, Lotus handling already consider as "innnovation"?
3." …… the survey was carried out in seven markets across Asia (Malaysia, Hong Kong, India, Philippines, Singapore, Taiwan, and Thailand)"
– This is what academician term as limitation/scope of study and more specifically geographycal location to choose the sampling! Ha, ha, ha, ha, …….. Do P1 cars available in India, Philiphines and Thailand market?
So all sampling from this country tak boleh pakai?
4. "The survey was based on responses to questionnaires distributed via Reader's Digest copies as well as telephone interviews of randomly selected, upscale consumers."
– From telephone call, how do they know the person is "upscale consumers"? Or maybe if see the number start with 03-2XXX XXXX shall from KL city centre or 03-7XXX XXXX shall be Damansara area but remember within this area there are still more "less fortunate consumers" than "upscale consumers". How to define "upscale", P1 car by itself is not perceive as "upscale product" just like Beemer or Merc?
So, Paul Tan, eantautjk suggestion is a good one. I fully support this suggestion and if PT accepted, then it will once and for all prove whether P1 is the most trusted brand or "will you buy one?".
proton.com – read the above and "shut up" your mouth, too much sh*t spill out from your foul mouth!
same old car ! dum car as well. Low in quality !ugly design on a sedan !
– engine sluggish
– crampy seating position
– air cond system the worst among other proton (full blast seems lousy)
– maintanence costly
– consumption – high
– stereo – kaput
– handling only good ! what's the use ?
go ask your brother (perodua) how to succeedlah !
Hikaru said,
June 21, 2007 @ 4:13 pm
I doubt it is going to go far. From the looks of it, it’s an elongated back which normal marque would offer at the launch of their cars and not about 2 years later. The longer it takes to develop, the more costly it’s going to be and need more time to recover.
Another irrelevance to the market. Still not targeting the market right.
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Agreed. Even if it is under demand I doubt the CPS would give the wow factor it deserves.
Non CPS is already rated at a 110hp; with CPS from what I read here is 127hp. Thats a mere 17hp improvement. From its lauch at 2004 till now, they have achieved around 6hp of improvement per year assuming it will be launched this year.
They spent millions on R&D for an average improvement of 6hp per annum? If you were the Board of Directors would you accept that kind of result?
Furthermore so far I have not come across the patent document for CPS as if it never existed. Can anyone give me the link? I'd like to go through it.
Even MIVEC-less engines are rated at 145hp (here itself is already far greater than 127hp) and with MIVEC 175hp. The performance results from CPS is a far cry from what an optimised cam phasing engine can do.
Another 3 years of R&D down the drain; possibly more.
i also see one at taman tun..near graphic vision..but that one i've seen is on the lorry..with white color..and covered by white kain..
it's large enough for a sedan..same wheelbase with waja i think..it's cool what..
malaysian car..i'm very excited..it's not about quality..design..bla..bla..
but it's a new car..sure interesting..just see by a positive side guys..
Jay, to be fair, you havent seen the real car, havent driven the real car, dont even know whats inside.. i say lets wait and see.
hikaru, hypothetically, if this car is brought out as it is, at the price of the wira or slightly higher, why is it not targetted at the right market?
i think the wira today outsells all of the "new protons". I think the market is there.. what other car today can be at the RM50k mark with a 4 door sedan and a large boot?
mr. proton said,
June 21, 2007 @ 10:32 am
then when they produce neo sedan u will say “i prefer gen2 sedanâ€.. wat a typical basher……
Malay friends this gen2 sedan really ugly la … u think it can sell well ?? except it sell very cheep la … 60k to own the gen 2 … forget about it … better having a used vios la friend …
timber8115 said,
June 21, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
actually, i like proton a lot… my family have been buying proton for all these years..and proton cars are quite a good car. I am anticipated and eager like bro paul tan about the new launches. I hope that proton can be as good as it is even though afta is implemented. Even car like toyota, honda, nissan also have defects…….. But proton is just unlucky to have More defects than them…. Believe Me proton will not wind up! Is our country reputation and our rakyat pride……
Friend my self also own a proton … if compare with my fren used corolla year 92 … really diffrent so much leh …. ppl have EFI 4AT … mine one still Carb 3AT .. now i wanna sell also no ppl wan … if trade no value … bank no more loan …
mr. proton said,
June 21, 2007 @ 8:26 am
new info from fren inside proton.. this car will be launch this end of july along with waja cps. but unfortunately, no cps in this sedan bcoz it will be sell cheaper than gen2 hatch(got cps).. but the cool features inside are no more complaint rear head room, no more old gear knob auto like previous one. also u can open ur bonnet with using the remote key like vios.new scheme colour, arm rest driver like waja(2 layer), the return of glove box etc. the waja cps will be price at around rm66k to rm 69 k. the powertrain will boost up to 127 hp. no more lagging or lower end torque or bla..bla.. wat ever pun, jus wait this july..
…. my fren also have gen2 …. 1st buy they complaine the front absorber jump up … make the bonnet have a hole …. second complaine only one month the radio malfuction …. 3rd time complaine the exhaust mounting broken …. godbless it have warranty …. now he wanna trade in or sell also no ppl wan …. friends ?? u think how good is gen2 ?? the interior also east scratch … oh my fxxx god good cars?
Driven2020, i think your comments on power are extremely narrow viewed and unfairly biased against proton's CPS.
the engines you mentioned are first and foremost, performance driven engines.
why arent you quoting power figures from everyday bread and butter cars, like the vvti toyota engines in the vios and corrola, or the ivtec engines from honda? if what you say is true, in comparison with the 1.6mivec making 175hp, shouldnt the new ivtec civic 2.0 litre be making 280hp? does this mean honda has just poured down millions of R&D into the drain? What about BMW, their new 2.5 litre engine with magnesium alloy block and variable everything "only" makes 218hp. the iron block 2.5litre engine from 1992 made 192hp. thats a measly 26hp increase in the last 16 years. what a waste of money???
btw, which 1.6litre engine are you talking about that makes 145hp in production form?
the facts are, today, vvti, vtec..cps, vanos..etc. are designed to make everyday cars more driveable, clean, and with better fuel consumption. Of course, power is available with special high perfomance versions, like M-cars, or Type -R..etc. please compare apples with apples.
Joe Ooi,
the trusted brands awards was done by readers digest, and audited by nielsen ratings..
so what exactly are you blabbing about? if you have an issue with that, go and take it up with readers digest and nielsens.
BanyakMasukWorkshop,
The issues here are there is to much talk and dubious claimed by P1 to boost their ego and try to "deceive" the public at large!
ini tempat macam itu parlimen la… manyak orang gaduh gaduh…. semua manyak free kah? kerja la! hehehe… just kidding pplz…
Looks like Iran version of Peugeot 206 got backside. Should atleast change the rear door design to fit the body curve. Such a weird design
Hmmm, roofline looks like the rear customers get about the same headroom as Gen2 owners now, IMHO. What do you guys think?
maibatsu, Same same with you
BanyakMasukWorkshop,
Well if you read my previous entries in this thread, my comments are based on if you are a buyer you'll look into various aspects of your future car whether it is worth or not worth. If I'm going to bash, surely my writings would be much much different.
If I were to buy an economical car with reasonable amount of ponies and torque plus also reasonable mileage returns, I wouldn't be considering high displacement/power cars at the first place right?
My points are that I see no need for them to implement CPS+VIM at the first place. The engine's current output is more than suffice for normal driving needs. I reckon the R&D would be better put into good use for improving efficiency even further and probably do something about that noise during high rev.
The question is would you fork out another 10K (as what I read from this thread) to buy a car with CPS+VIM but has minimal improvement on FC? Honestly speaking I wouldn't know how much improvement on FC on this one.
Regarding various engines output, since you touched the word performance; Very well. Indeed the other engines I've stated according to you are "performance engines". Their version of cam phasing techniques were used primarily for astronomical RPMS and very high specific outputs at a typical 100PS/L minimum.
That is what to be expected from these type of engines. Being aware of it, suddenly CPS+VIM came to mind. Interesting. Would it reach astronomical RPMS and eye popping output? Apparently far fetched from the "performance engines".
How about Honda's D15B 1.5L SOHC 3 stage VTEC? it's got VTEC-E for mileage and 130ps of power. 130ps on a 1.5L is not really that common heck its in a SOHC configuration. Does it count as a "performance engine"? that 87PS/L engine is everywhere.
But since you labelled all the other engines I mentioned as "performance engines", does is it mean of all the hype on CPS & VIM which is clearly formula for high specific output are not dubbed "performance engines"? Then what are they?
Why not you decide and let's follow your concept. Fair?
Yes it is crude not compare against other engine of different configurations why the improvement is minimal and so on.
But how's about the 100PS/L on a straight 4 pot thingy? why not they make it 150PS/L? Sure they can but it won't be easy and undoubtedly costly. Why? you'll get all sorts of issues like heat, vibrations, block twists, balance and all sorts of stuff. Assuming all of that can be overcome and the straight 4 pot can now reach the 150PS/L mark. Question is would the problem faced on a straight 4 pot be the same on a V6 if so happen it wants to be 150PS/L as well? what about straight 6's, W12's and so on? are they the same as well?
Engine development these days would reach a saturated state and its a fine balancing act between cost, design, materials etc and it pretty much depends on where they want to go. Do you want to up the power or improve on the mileage, emmisions and so on?
Like the BMW engine you mentioned; 2.5L @ 218hp. Doesn't sound alot for a two point fiver right? but what if it's emissions is comparable to a 2.0L straight 4 engine? with that kind of result it's called cutting edge R&D. Best engines aren't exactly the most powerful ones.
Again it depends where the engine makers (and their shareholders) where they want to go.
Saying all that at the end of the day I do not know where CPS+VIM is going. So according to you that I'm potentially being narrow minded why not you if so kindly please tell me where they want to go coz I really wanna know. If you have the patent information as well feel free to post the link here so we can all read it.
I agree with BanyakMasukWorkshop. Jay you not even see the production car you already comment and bashing blindly. You said same old car. Really? Think again.
Please stop this. Let us wait and see.
nothing special…dun like the rear anyway…
should looks nice n make up 4 wat is lost .
Guys just my 2cents but I am just wondering why must every single post on Proton turn into bashing sessions? But to be fair this post is the mildest I have seen for some time but dont you think comments about how Proton is overpriced, requires protection, serves a government agenda etc should belong to political forums or blogs? Also shouldnt comments regarding supposed car quality be reserved for cars that are actually on the road?
I used to drive a Waja, changed my power windows 3 times , had to put up with sometimes erratic car behaviour but I have never hated Proton so much as to turn a motoring blog into a politically charged flame war.
Can someone leak the launch dates of this car? Or must find free time in Pak Lah's diary…
war…tolong lar ur comment…..
With all these CPS talk, my question is, are the improvements interiorly ? Sorry to say the interior of current Gen2 is too much of cheapo plastic feel.
Ya i'm excited too Paul!! Can't wait to see the Gen2 sedan on sale as well as the BLM launching… But dunno got chance to go to the showroom and see or not le…
By the way i think they'll improve on the plastic quality la… Since so many ppl complaint about it liao…
i think they will too..if not i'll kick their ass till it bleeds….kinda garang eh?
new seat, alloy just nice as standard to be,
cps vim means proton at par with other i suppose,
– as a car fan, this is exciting enough for me,
owh wow, reallly love to have it….just wondering when they let us put the booking moneyyy to have this car…
Another note to the PROTON Engineers/designers, the tail gate should be the LED like the modified Gen2s running on the streets now!!…
Gosh, I am excited!!!
25 years of hopes, 25 years of dissapointment, isn't that enough already?
Based on historical performances, you don't even need to waste your time going to the showroom.
The Unicons said,
To PTAllTheBest, cheap things no good thing? What kind of perseption is that? No good thing, free one I also don’t want. Cheap doesn’t mean not good. Try to compare Mercedes Benz C-Class with Toyota Camry…. which one cheaper? Toyota right? However, they have better quality and more reliable then Mercedes Benz and now become top manufacturer of the world.
– reliability yes …but better built quality? worst crap i've ever heard in my life….thats just a poor man's lame excuse for not being able to afford the MB. toyotas are just wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy overrated in malaysia.Next their fanboys will say a camry is better built quality than a bentley/ rolls royce/ maybach.
anyway, back to topic…hope this gen-2 sedan can be priced competitively so that we can see nicer looking cars on the road. really sick n tired of seeing myvis everywhere. priced in between 44k-48k and it will expose how terribly overpriced the viva 1.0 is.
Speaking from experience, i hope proton learn from the mistakes. The Gen2 sedan and that BML model should be their new image and hope. I say this because by now Proton knows how to build a car from scratch, unlike P2. However the problem with proton is that they fail to maintain the quality. Even though they learn it from Mitsubishi and gained knowledge from Lotus, how corrent and how close do they follow the procedures to maintain the standard and retain the quality? What about parts, the vendor, do they have or follow a correct system/ procedures/ process on maintaining the parts quality? – or the quality is purposely overlookd just so that the vendors can have business? By the frequent visits of many proton owners and complaints on the internet, obviously it shows that there's something missing the quality standard/ checking system which proton undertakes.
In the mean time I personally feel that if proton could stand on its own, it would be great, no need for VW to come. (Of course there is pros and cons on this) Now it's like proton or whoever the party concern, begging on its knees for VW's mercy. After all, it looks like VW is already taking over other marques and in the end the autoworld becomes VW-related and boring.
What is the fuss with how much CPS can improve the power of this car…even Nissan Latio with new HR16DE engine delivers only 109ps and that engine is with CVTC also its 1.8L version with MR18DE engine also with CVTC only delivers 126ps of power output…so its just about driveability, emission, people friendly (the pocket ofcourse) and not just merely power…not all people thinking abt going in a blink of an eye…how fast they can drive
King said… – reliability yes …but better built quality? worst crap i’ve ever heard in my life….thats just a poor man’s lame excuse for not being able to afford the MB. toyotas are just wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy overrated in malaysia.Next their fanboys will say a camry is better built quality than a bentley/ rolls royce/ maybach.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Anything you want to say. Toyota has proven it realiability and quality around the world.
To BW, why you said "but dunno got chance to go to the showroom and see or not le….?
To trifecta, well Proton basher always a Proton basher even if Proton can and will do well next time.
Cheers everyone.
True then it comes back to the question is it worth to spend an additional 10K to get the new Gen2 with CPS+VIM since 110hp is already quite usable for everyday driving?
What is more important now? power? Mileage? or Emissions?
All we know so far is CPS+VIM will improve top end output to 127hp as opposed to 110hp. Like what moha774 said the Latio engine is rated 107hp; then what for you need the extra 17hp on the CPS+VIM for? wuts the mileage improvement if any?
If you are a potential buyer dun tell me things like these never crossed your mind unless you are blind right? this is called consumer rights to know what is there to offer.
again is it worth an additional 10K to get CPS+VIM?
I think it will be better if we all wait what price are Proton going to offer for car with this engine, but for 1.6L CPS that can perform as good as 1.8L with CVTC (dont know abt its fuel efficiency for both engine) I do think its a step forward for Proton…although its reliability still not proven yet..on the road it is..to be fair, let we all just wait..
To Driven2020. The current 1.6 litre (model: S4PH) engine quite powerful at higher revs, its performance is reportedly sluggish at lower revs and this is proven by driving the Gen.2 uphills where drivers who drive the manual transmission version have to shift a lot between 2nd gear and 3rd gear. This is due to its torque dip between 3,000 ~ 3,500 rpm where the torque decreases slightly before picking up back to the maximum torque at 4,000 rpm.
With the new CAMPRO CPS, the problem could be solved (have to see after the real test drive). The usage of CPS tehnology will raise the maximum power up to about 127 bhp and will improve the low-end torque to its maximum value which will maintain until about 5,000 rpm. The Campro's Variable Intake Manifold (VIM) technology also to be introduced.
In the future, I'm sure Proton will stop the current engine production mainly the 1.6 litre S4PH or even 1.3 litre S4PE – known as basic Campro engines. Anyway, Proton might still develop and introduce newer basic Campro engines in the future along side with upcoming or future CPS / VIM engines to meet new emission regulations. It's call moving forward.
If the price extra RM10K with with features, qualities and safety that buyers want…. then I think still able to sell.
Unicons,
How would CPS improve low end torque? How did you relate CPS with torque?
How is VIM used? what is VIM anyway?
How would the VIM complement CPS combined?
Going up hill? sluggish? why not shed off excess weight off the car to improve the power to weight ratio? thats free power plus doesn't cost a cent.
Going up hill means air cond can be turned off summore the air is alot cooler as it gets higher. Colder air means higher oxygen density meaning more energy per cycle of combustion for fuel. Even that the current Gen2 has problems going uphill?
What is the usual RPM when driving the Gen2 up to Genting anyway? 4000RPMS? assuming CPS will engage at that point meaning you have to floor it at least 4000RPMS to go up to Genting? wouldn't that be wasting more fuel? engaging CPS is something like engaging MIVEC/VTEC?VVTL-i and by experience it won't be kind to fuel consumption.
you mentioned reportedly sluggish result going uphill plus dip in torque at certain RPMS. How much improvement would CPS+VIM make? where are the dyno curves? show us so that we can see coz I would really want to know.
I dun really believe that unless there is something really wrong with the whole package at the first place.
new JUNK TOO…
campro VIM:
http://paultan.org/archives/2006/10/09/new-air-fu…
hmm……..i thought i was supposed to read the comments on this model. instead of that i found out i was like inside a meeting seeing other banging each other, similar like in parliment house. hahaha. car lovers getting mentality illness……….really bad indeed.
Hi Paul Tan. Thanks for giving the link page to Driven2020.
Will they put in the 1.6 CPS into this sedan after some time? mayb they wan clear away their old campros…hehe
i just saw one black gen 2 sedan on the north south highway bound south.I saw it when i was travelling north in sungai dua toll in penang…..
Driven2020 said,
June 22, 2007 @ 11:51 am
Unicons,
How would CPS improve low end torque? How did you relate CPS with torque?
How is VIM used? what is VIM anyway?
How would the VIM complement CPS combined?
Going up hill? sluggish? why not shed off excess weight off the car to improve the power to weight ratio? thats free power plus doesn’t cost a cent.
Going up hill means air cond can be turned off summore the air is alot cooler as it gets higher. Colder air means higher oxygen density meaning more energy per cycle of combustion for fuel. Even that the current Gen2 has problems going uphill?
What is the usual RPM when driving the Gen2 up to Genting anyway? 4000RPMS? assuming CPS will engage at that point meaning you have to floor it at least 4000RPMS to go up to Genting? wouldn’t that be wasting more fuel? engaging CPS is something like engaging MIVEC/VTEC?VVTL-i and by experience it won’t be kind to fuel consumption.
you mentioned reportedly sluggish result going uphill plus dip in torque at certain RPMS. How much improvement would CPS+VIM make? where are the dyno curves? show us so that we can see coz I would really want to know.
I dun really believe that unless there is something really wrong with the whole package at the first place.
==eh………i m just wondering where r u from? an automotive engineer?
didn't u know CPS, VIM, the relation to hp, torque, did u?
mate, u think 110hp is enough doesn't mean other said so? bigger hp also doesn't mean lower fuel effiency.
to let u know every individual have its own taste, needs. is very subjective on money, power, mileage, emission, size, looks, etc. if so particular about emission, money and mileage, shouldn't all driver buying viva 660cc, should we?
that's big question mark! going up hill, shed up excess weight of the car? what, remove the spare tyre and tools? going up alone don't bring any passenger? just for the sake of improving power?
driving a car with aircond have to off it when going up hill, then what for having a car with aircond? colder air having more oxygen density, u sure? hmm……u forgotten something? is it higher ground having lower air density?
CPS or VIM are just part of the engine, the engine is just part of the whole car, what about the rest of it? just some advise, see wider and further! whahahaha………..
GUYS!! The Gen2 CPS & Sedan will be officially be launched on the 22nd July 07 the price is between RM46K to RM55K. Reasonable price I would say since they have added more features & improved all the previous complaints. Said it has Auto Cruise..is the old unit already equiped. The rest of features as what Mr Proton mentioned. I look for forward for its launched though I'm more interested in Waja CPS. Is the price above RM66K for Waja CPS, Mr Proton in view that Gen2 CPS didnt increase much??
Guys!! Gen 2 Sedan & CPS will be officially launched by 22nd July 07. The price will range between RM46K to RM55k. Reasonable pricing since it added features or sort.
Meantime u sure Waja CPS priced at RM66K above, Mr Proton since Gen2 CPS dont see much of price hike?? Interested in Waja CPS version.
Thanks for the extra input tec96248. Nothing much to say now. Hope Proton does well. All the best.
Always got "wars" in Proton comment page, haiz….
But this Gen2 sedan should be ok if the wheels are larger….
xstan said,
June 22, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
Guys!! Gen 2 Sedan & CPS will be officially launched by 22nd July 07. The price will range between RM46K to RM55k. Reasonable pricing since it added features or sort.
Meantime u sure Waja CPS priced at RM66K above, Mr Proton since Gen2 CPS dont see much of price hike?? Interested in Waja CPS version.
——————————–
this info got from people inside proton. dun worry.. the introductory price wont be above rm70k. rm 65 to rm68k for an enhancement of the engine n interior shud be fair i think. anyway.. wait till this end of july.. gen 2 cps will get an increased price to differentiate it from sedan.. for starter no cps for sedan but next year all of them will powered by cps.. cheers….
Thanks Paul for link back and it seems I've commented on that before. How time flies while long time waiting for this to materialise.
tec96248,
Since you mentioned air density and probably you went up to Genting more frequent as I do, what is the air density differences from sea level to say about 2000m at the peak of Genting? would you think the difference be great? why not you be the judge of that. If just 2000m the car would suffer from lack of oxygen due to thinner oxygen content wouldn't going up Genting means have to wear a breathing apparatus to go up there?
Plus Unicons was referring to going up Genting and from what you say I'm sure you're one of those ppl who keeps the air cond going while driving up hill to Genting. Well that's just you.
Why not you go and check the history of turbocharging at why and at what ALTITUDE they use it for warplanes during the old days.
Colder air does mean higher air density if not what for installing an intercooler before the intake manifold of a turbocharged car? that you also dunno? have you not thought about the power output differences of a turbo charged car with and without intercoolers? NA wise why bother to spend resources to develop CAI?
I personally do not think, of all the current Gen2 engine climbing up Genting would be problematic. If it so happen to be then it's just plain bad luck. You get for what you pay for.
Till date no patent documentation been cited unlike the new variable VVTL-i or the AVTEC that was posted by Paul here before. If anyone knows the link post it here. It would be useful for us to find out how this CPS+VIM is implemented am I'm sure many readers would like to know too. Don't you?
Yes Paul. I feel excited too. I too noticed the headrest for the front seats a different from the current GEN.2, and the dashboard is totally different. Don't u guys think so?
mitlanevo said,
June 22, 2007 @ 4:02 pm
Always got “wars†in Proton comment page, haiz….
But this Gen2 sedan should be ok if the wheels are larger….
…………………………………………………………………………………….
Because proton has many issue n news for us to read. If not this blog will be bored…Proton always come with lots of comments, complaint etc..hehe..think this blog should change to a place for proton basher to bash instead of it original automotive objective..anyway good luck to proton with their new models n engine enhancement…
Well if we got no basher, sure proton will die even faster! Basher is the one who criticize and to put pressure on the manufacturer to built more quality cars.. If we got no basher in the first place, either we all live in third world country (dictator country) or the P1 quality is really great! Every car manufacturer also got basher, that why manufacturer turn back and ask them where their weakness and fix it.. Our country quality control is not strong that why we got a lot of bogus, fake stuff around our market.. If the G is strict like the Singapore or EURO G, i think our spare part, car built quality might be even better! Even the BPR sucks in Malaysia.. How many people only get caught? In Singapore if u bribe the police u kena tangkap ,masuk lokap n saman 10 times ur bribe! In Malaysia… Haiz..
I'm curious. I've a feeling Proton will not be calling this car a GEN.2. Maybe a different name….
Driven2020 said,
June 22, 2007 @ 4:51 pm
==hmm………hahaha, pls don't u feel uneasy. i believe u still don't get the whole point. what i have questioned u, were indicated how much different will it make if the air is getting cooler when upto genting and also how much will increase in oxygen density? if u really wanna take count on this, u will also have to consider a lot things together too……..eg. temperate, humidity, pressure, etc. consider it, would u? u don't drive uphill with aircond on doesn't means others don't. huh………rite?
ah……..of course i know about the turbo charge, but do u know what are the disadvantages of it? know why not all the cars using it, instead using vvti, vtec, etc? another, is will turbocharge better fuel efficient and cost effective than a normal fuel injected feed engine? since u mentioned cost earlier. a question for u again….hahaha
my friend, engine is just a part of the whole car and these CPS, VIM is part of their advancement or improvement. and yet u said not necessary and later u mentioned the creation of turbocharged and intercooler. where r u heading? Don't drive urself into a corner. the understanding of engine (combustion) is very wide and a lot still can be developed that we have yet to see. just wanna let u know there's reason to upgrade and improve the output and performance, if not, we all will stuck in the old days with 1.6 having below 90hp or worst. get the whole picture?? hahahaha.
just a basic principle,
8 valve engine is normally very good at low end,(start stop or city driving)
but how 16 valver to act like 8 valver for a good lower end torque ?,
the key is to restrict the air, either allow intake through smaller diameter intake or make it hard travelling by in long intake path, therefore the a little extra effort of suction makes the air swirl entering the chamber for batter fuel mixture, burn nicey resulting batter torque, (good torque mean unnecessary flooring of the right food that cost some fuel)
at higher rpm VIM allow, the shorter parth or with bigger diameter intake, for freer intake, enough for higher rpm breathing,
for more higher rpm for more horse power ,definitely alteration valve timing or phasing will only make possible by CPS,
anyway this is not bad,,
The sedan version look kinda classy.
Hope they export this version to Australia coz they appeciate bigger boots.
tec96248,
Uneasy? Hmm why would you think so?
The air density relating to turbocharging was in response to your statement whether colder air would benefit engine output nothing more.
Additions to the base engine will only mean cost increase. Whom ever said forced induction was cheap? The VW's 1.4L TSI is a wonderful example. Loads of power but reasonable mileage. Biggest downside is cost and complexity.
Pros and cons or not that's just you. You want to branch out of the conversation you're welcomed to.
Proton GL description is correct relating to CPS+VIM. Long runners benefit for the low end RPM spectrum. When the engine starts to suffocate at higher RPMS the CPS will engage to change the cam profile to allow better breathing. At the same time the VIM will engage to route the air to the shorter runner.
Assuming the CPS changeover and the VIM shorter runner does not engages until it reaches 5000RPMS; then what's the difference with a VIM+CPSless engine with the intake runner the same length as the longer runner in the VIM if you are running below 5000RPMs which is more than enough for daily use? Can't you see the point I'm making? Why not use the R&D to refine the engine even further whilst keeping the production cost low? Wouldn't you personally think that be nicer? That's my opinion.
Of course I do not know what RPM that CPS+VIM operates is because I've said many times there has not been alot of patent info on this. If you have it does not hurt to share it right? There is nothing wrong trying to understand what CPS+VIM has to offer.
Everyone has the right to get whatever they want. It's your own hard earn money anyway right?
Driven2020, I didn't say or refer I'm going up Genting. You think only Genting known as hill. Malaysia so "big". It can refer to multi level car parks (which I think can not be found in KL – go up "hill" about 45 degree) and so many places got hill slopes. In UK, middle east etc where Proton cars available. Many test car drivers and car owners (even from other countries) already complained about these issue. By the way, I don't own Proton Gen.2. I don't say I do drive Proton Gen.2. Please stop guessing. Hahaha….
I can call myself a "little" test car driver and now in my very late 20s. I drove my aunt. Mercedes Benz C-Class 1st generation for 3 years (later sold) at the same time with Proton Saga 1.3(M) 1st generation 7 to 8 years – the car served my parents and me for 15 years or so, aunt. let me drive Honda Civic Sedan 1.6 i-VTEC 6th Generation for nearly 4 years (after she sold her Merz), now Honda also sold currently driving my dad's (when he asks me to take over wheels) and my own one plus one time BMW 3 Series (E46) with many other test drive when new cars launch. Anyway, never test drive pick-up and 4×4 before because personally I prefer passenger car.
Well, Mr. Paul Tan. Please help on these. Driven2020 seems still doesn't understand all these normal car engines…. always talk about turbo charged engines etc.
To tec96248, I'm tired to explain to Driven2020. hahaha….
Unicons,
Nobody is underminding anybody. Since this is an open blog for us to discuss no harm chatting about it right? Who knows you might know something I don't and this can be a good place to share info. If not no point having an automotive blog anyway.
Genting to me is just an example nothing more. Good day and happy motoring.
improve the rear look…nt solid looking at d rear…
raybrig85, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY NOT SOLID??
imo…jz looks plain..mbe nt muscular i think…hhmmm…mbe d rear dsg is nt suited wit d whole body…it reminds me of renault megane classic…yala…same case with the renault megane classic…btw…still can improve…
Err… i think both the VW 1.4 TSI engine with P1 campro with CPS+VIM also complex n expensive to built.. But in term of power/cc the VW 1.4 TSI win the day.. coz u can save fuel+roadtax and it already good for both the environment+user save $$$. Dont forget, turbocharged engine have more torque at lower RPM. Just imagine the new Satria.neo with 1.4TSI.. Wow.. Fly loo… VW engine should be cheaper compare to P1 engine coz they produce more and being used by its own sub companies like SEAT & Skoda.. If u ask those racer, they prefer turbocharged engine more then N/A engines coz is more flexibility on modifying more power on it… Change the Turbo, piston, injectors, better engine management and u can get more then 100% power from the normal turbo engine…
Driven2020 said,
June 22, 2007 @ 8:12 pm
tec96248,
Uneasy? Hmm why would you think so?
The air density relating to turbocharging was in response to your statement whether colder air would benefit engine output nothing more.
==just my assumption since u were arguing most of it.
the mentioned items, density oxygen and cold air was brought out by u. my friend, please read again of what u have commented earlier then u will know why i questioned u and trying to tell u.
a car lovers or drivers will always hope and ask for more. even other things like home appliances a lot to be expected from human living life. engine performance is just part of it. if u think so much about cost, then the whole idea of improvement or upgrading will be stuck and way back to the starting point. additional cost is required of course for additional items, u have to calculate it like an accounter, then u know why toyota still can be sell even the prices are expensive compared to proton. if u wanna know more detail about it, please check out basic of engineering history or automotive history. please do look at a whole thing. do enjoy it, cars is part of life….hahaha.
The Unicons said,
June 22, 2007 @ 9:57 pm
To tec96248, I’m tired to explain to Driven2020. hahaha….
i hope so, this is a last time to let him get the whole picture. the rest to be, forget it. i will enjoy the rest………..hahaha.
To Driven2020. Did I underminding you? I didn't say it, I didn't bash you and why you keep thinking or guessing things?
On June 22, 2007 @ 4:51 pm, you said:
….Plus Unicons was referring to going up Genting and from what you say I’m sure you’re one of those ppl who keeps the air cond going while driving up hill to Genting. Well that’s just you….. AND
….I personally do not think, of all the current Gen2 engine climbing up Genting would be problematic. If it so happen to be then it’s just plain bad luck. You get for what you pay for….
now you said is an example from you. That day you were the one who said I'm referring to going up Genting. Anyway, forget about it.
Driven2020. Well, I hope you can find your friend(s) or other people here in this forum or other places to give you more info. Sorry if I'm too harsh with you. Happy motoring to you.
i drove a satria 1.3 for a few years. it was a hand-me-down from my bro. it worked just fine for me for all those years…nothing major happened or broke…my family also has a proton iswara….it worked fairly well as well…i find that it sucks too much petrol and the windows couldn't really wind up ….maybe after 4-5 years?….but all in all…protons cars are preety good….i'm overseas at the moment…which is why…i regularly check Paul's site for updates on malaysian cars….to see a proton overseas reminds me of home…and i like that…
i'm excited for the new models coming out…the gen2 sedan looks preety good…..hahah….any comments on the compro engines though??? anyone having one?? the protons i used to drive didnt have the campros…
wah !
long time no login, soo many spy photos of potong upcoming models?
whatever potong offers, they won't be able to reverse the steady and surely declining sales of their products. nearly 2 years of almost constant month over months of declining sales…. is a clear-cut indicator of going to hell.
too late already. but if vw come into the picture, then maybe people will cheer up, forgive potong past sins (many of their sins are very great) and buy their products. just because vw own some of their shares. the best part, when that happened, vw car technology are yet to be incorporated in potong car. sigh…
intermilan….welcome back……
sheridansulik said,
June 22, 2007 @ 1:01 am
owh wow, reallly love to have it….just wondering when they let us put the booking moneyyy to have this car…
Another note to the PROTON Engineers/designers, the tail gate should be the LED like the modified Gen2s running on the streets now!!…
Gosh, I am excited!!!
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sounds like one of those sales pitch they used while trying to promote the savvy.
CPS is hardly anything exciting. to makes things worse they again reused an old car.
every news about proton will invite bad criticsm.. why not jus wait till this car launch along with waja cps, gen2 cps then bash anthing that not goes well.. we dont even see the interior of the sedan or even drive it.. so any bashing jus wasting ur time….
true mr. proton…. leave all comments for the launching then can have our true opinoins…..
DESTROY(BASHERS)
PROTECT(LOVERS)
BASHERS Vs. LOVERS – Let see who get destroy when
STOP THE BUYING, STOP THE SUCKING!
in traansformers term…..
PROTECT VS DESTROY
transformers fever!!!!!
Emm.. then VW is consider in what group? Protect or destroy or just watching above.. watch both side fight until die then come in invade.. LOL! Anywayz saw the news today mention that VW will continue to meet khazanah ppl in bangkok.. hope they sign it!
Yeah, Transformers fever hot again after my so call creation in this blog. Hahaha…. Sorry mr. proton, kei9, tec96248 and for all the protectors. Too busy so no time to online. But now I'm here. Not only about PROTECT vs DESTROY or LOVERS vs BASHERS or WIN vs LOSE.
To become a successful person we must always think WIN WIN. You win, I win everybody wins. So if Volkswagen and Proton's meeting successful, then they think WIN WIN. Volkswagen gets the facilities from Proton to assemble their cars for Asean markets as Proton factory = Toyota factory. Then Proton gets technological supports from Volkswagen.
If you don't want Proton or our government using the tax payers' money to help them, you must think WIN WIN, that is make sure Proton success so our government NO NEED TO PROTECT Proton anymore.
LittleFire85, if VW buy Proton, VW = Protect as what VW did to Skoda and Seat. Now both companies which under VW management doing well, so much better than before.
However, if the meeting between Proton and VW end without any understanding then is because one or two parties don't agree in something. Both parties get nothing so it's more like a LOSE LOSE and not WIN LOSE or WIN WIN.
The Unicons said,
June 26, 2007 @ 8:24 pm
"However, if the meeting between Proton and VW end without any understanding then is because one or two parties don’t agree in something. Both parties get nothing so it’s more like a LOSE LOSE and not WIN LOSE or WIN WIN."
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If the meeting is fail, it is indeed P1 GET LOSE situation! VW still moving on!
got some real life picture at my blog.
:) got it in the mail from a friend.
http://opstupe.blogspot.com/2007/07/proton-gen2-sedan.html
dunno eh wazzup with the car. but love it though. cuz looks cool type… i dunno if similar with the others but it does have its own difference. maybe slightly :)