Greetings from England! We’re here braving the wet and cold weather to witness the RAC Future Car Challenge from Brighton to London. The challenge (it’s not a race, according to organisers Royal Automobile Club of Pall Mall London) happens this Saturday in the UK, one day before the RAC’s famous London to Brighton Veteran Car Run.
Just as the Veteran Car Run celebrates the great cars of yesterday, the Future Car Challenge seeks to promote, demo and challenge clean and green cars – the cars of the future. The FCC also runs the opposite direction of the veteran run, starting from the coastal town and heading to the capital city.
This is the second year of the RAC Future Car Challenge, which seeks to find the most efficient and least energy consuming cars in different categories. National carmaker Proton, which won the “Best Range Extender EV” award last year with the Exora REEV, is entering three cars this year – Saga EV, Exora REEV and Persona Elegance REEV, the latter a newly built car with the same drivetrain as the MPV.
These cars were developed in partnership with Frazer Nash Research Ltd, a British based R&D company specialising in electric vehicle powertrains. Earlier today, we visited FN’s headquarters in Surrey to learn more about the company and its relationship with Proton. We also got to sample the Exora REEV and Saga EV at a small test track. Having already driven the Exora REEV last year (click here to read our exclusive test drive report), I paid attention to the electric Saga.
Some might have heard of an electric Saga before, perhaps an older concept, or some university project. But this is the real thing, one that’s just been handed over to Malaysian government agencies for fleet testing, and one that Proton plans to sell to Malaysians for around RM70,000 come 2013. Out goes the Campro drivetrain, fuel tank and differential, and in comes a Frazer Nash created electric drivetrain.
This consists of a permanent magnet AC synchronous motor, powered by a lithium ion battery pack (15.9 kWh peak energy, 105 Wh/kg density) from a German company. Expect a 10-year warranty for the battery in the production car.
Output is rated at 52 kW (70 hp) and 198 Nm of torque. Typical of EVs, all that torque is available from rest or 0 rpm, so it feels very fast. While the target is 0-100 km/h below 10 seconds (Saga 1.6 AT does it in 14 secs), it feels a lot faster in the real world. They don’t have it, but an 0-40 km/h reading should prove the point well.
Of course, this is an EV and the main points should be zero tailpipe emissions and zero fuel consumption. The claimed range on a full charge is 120 km, but we’re told that 75 to 80 km of real world use is easily achievable. In the most recent test, the Saga EV on 91% charge did 93 km cruising with 20% charge left.
Some might doubt the level of engineering here – can a Proton EV be as good as one from Mitsubishi, Nissan or Renault? Others will ask whether a carmaker that doesn’t make the best conventional cars around can make advanced EVs work. Here’s the answer given: first, Frazer Nash has 20 years experience with EVs and has proprietary tech that’s best in the business. Secondly, the future is electric, and EVs are new to all, so Proton can start on the same line as the bigger companies, not play catch up like with its conventional cars.
A drive should be enough to kill the skepticism, as the other media personnel, EV virgins, found out. They were smiling ear to ear and gushing with praise for the Proton EVs after driving them on Frazer Nash’s mini test track. My turn came and I left truly impressed as well!
The interior is standard Saga except for the instrument panel and centre stack display, which are similar to that on the Exora REEV. This means that there’s no rpm meter, but an energy meter, and all EV info such as range and charge level are displayed on the touch screen central display.
Started the car silently and started of in D mode on the gear lever, and the Saga eased off without noise in typical EV fashion. There are no sounds apart from a faint whirr and road/tyre noise, the first things first timers will notice. In D, speed is capped at 30 mph (48 km/h) and my chaperone tells me that the Saga is using only 20% of its potential at this point. Maximising efficiency is great for city traffic, but I didn’t have much time…
So into S mode and the inner section of the wet and slippery track, which has some incredibly tight corners. Floored it and the stock tyres screeched a bit before the car thrust forward. The strong, effortless acceleration wasn’t surprising, and the experience not too different from what one will get in an i-MiEV. Then came the first corner.
It had gone in too fast, and the FWD Saga was understeering into the grass. But I remembered the “digital differential” Frazer Nash is very proud off, and instead of backing off the gas, gritted my teeth and powered on. And like magic, the car dug in and changed direction. From then on, I went into each corner faster than I would normally, and powered through the bends. Getting up to speed again was also instant thanks to the low down torque. Surreal in a Saga on a wet track!
The Goodyears made a lot of noise throughout, but the Saga EV continued to defy logic. But to get it in the zone, one must overcome the natural reaction of “back off when understeer” and ignore the mega body roll – this is no sports car and the comfort oriented suspension is stock. Basically, ignore all signs that you’re gonna crash and you’re gonna be rewarded with giggles. Time pasts faster when you’re having fun, so my two tight laps were over in a blink.
This “digital diff” is basically software that delegates torque to the wheel that has grip in corners, like how a limited slip differential (LSD) works in cars like the Megane Renaultsport. It’s also something like torque vectoring in mega SUVs. This means that there’s no mechanical diff at work, something Fraser Nash thinks is an outdated and inefficient solution.
The Saga EV as an autokhana hero? Sounds as absurd as asking a police officer to write ad copy, but I’m already imagining it with sports suspension and better tyres now – could be very tasty! But of course, the Saga EV is all about emissions free motoring and never needing to visit a petrol station again.
Along with the REEV powered Exora and Persona, it should do well in the RAC Future Car Challenge this Saturday. Stay tuned!
Looking to sell your car? Sell it with Carro.
Any videos to show the fast paced acceleration, paul?
I noticed that there’s “Adhan Quran” menu on the LCD display. Proton target to exports the Saga EV to arab countries? Its a good feature for muslims.
EV to arab countries? dont make sense, they drink oil there.
dude.. not all Arab are rich. many other Islamic countries have higher fuel price compared to Malaysia: Indonesia, Iran, Pakistan, Yemen, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Bosnia, and even Turkey which has among the highest fuel price in the world. Muslim in China also a lot more than the whole Malaysia population.
our oil reserve is around 4bil barrels, and if we continue to produce 900k barrels daily, our reserve will be depleted in 12 years. sooner or later, those oil-rich Arabs will be depleted too.
Agreed…and going EV or REEV is not simply because of fuel prices is getting expensive but to also moving towards greener environment. Even the oil rich arab nations will eventually use it.
Hehe 4bil barrels with 75% water cut…
much better than CR-Z?
bro… i said arab countries.
what you listed are countries with muslim majority.
Iran is one of the Arab countries. Their oil reserves is one of the largest in the world, 150bil barrels compared to Malaysia’s 4bil barrerls only, but fuel price in Iran is higher because their govt reduced/removed the subsidy about 1 year ago. my point is, proton isn’t necessarily aiming for Arab countries only, because many more Muslims live around the other parts of the world.
Iranian will scream at you if told them ‘they are Arab’…they are Persian
maybe it can explore like a suicide bomber
if they explore, they will be called “explorer”, not suicide bomber.
better change your name to neh bodoh.. it’s “explode” la, not “explore”.
sabo yop…
Looks like a good concerted effort on Proton’s part. With the EVs in, the next project that Proton should embark in is the SUV project. The SUV market is amongst the fastest growing and I was looking forward to seeing if Proton would offer a fresh and viable take on SUV design. But time and tide waits for no man so I have to make a purchase after some wait- the Toyota Harrier 240G.
Hope that Proton can have its SUV, and with EV would be a bonus, on the cards soon! Kudos Proton!
i believe they are currently building the SUV together with Youngman. try search around and you might find several pics of the prototype. the project codename, as told by some other people is “iguana”
i believe i believe, my friend say, my father say, my uncle say, my salesman say, my search show, my source claim… bla bla bla…
please don’t give misleading information friend
ayoo…. this katak aaa, info about Proton-Youngman SUV has been around for years. you don’t know because you’ve been living under coconut shell.
Mind you is not Proton, but is Youngman-Lotus SUV.
Proton didn’t involving yet else we should saw that car test drive in Malaysia road instead of China, get it clear friend.
whatever it is, Proton owns Lotus!
Youngman may claimed it’s Lotus, but everybody here knows that Europestar is originally is Proton Gen2 model, not Lotus. they may said the same about this SUV project.
WOW…. even wow is small word for SAGA… a new SAGA begins
Proton is going in the right direction with EV and REEV. If they can improve the technology or its efficiency (no doubt through FN), Proton definitely will be on par with other major manufacturer. I personally like the REEV concept. Proton should be able to push their REEV fleet into more emission regulated market such as Europe and US. Now I wonder if maybe in future Proton can come up with hydrogen cars. If California can do it, surely it can be done in Kuala Lumpur.
Proton is indeed going the right direction with the EV Saga. If one can get real world ranges of 100km, I think it would do well in malaysia. Perhaps not quite just yet for KL but for a place like Ipoh for example, it would be perfect where daily commute per day seldom exceed 50km.
Hydrogen is still difficult since there is no infrastructure. Just look at NGV and how slow its taking off. The baby steps will still be EV.
Any idea about the climate control in the Saga EV?
Hydrogen is a means to maintain the use of internal combustion engines where most advanced countries have their industries as an advantage. It is overladen with cost to generate, distribute AND to make it safe in consumer hands.
With electric cars, the dominant technology is the storage. It gives almost any developing country to develop their own system no matter how efficient it is. Each country will have the capability to reduce dependence on foreign products. Such is the threat to modern car companies that they are willing to throw any hindrance to the development of its adoption.
In Malaysia we have to reduce our dependence on Natural Gas and have its use reduced. In a few years time, with LEKAS being onstream, we will import gas. This will change us to become a Nett energy importer. It is imperative that that energy is used efficiently. No engine can be as efficient as an electric motor in converting energy into motion.
bravo proton.. hope the instrument cluster and the gui will improve drastically as well.
i mean yeah..! would luv… luvvvv it if the instrument cluster would be totally digital or like the CRZ…! n oh yeah… what happened to crossover / suv programme? (the lekiu me thinks) should put REEV into it too..! Now that would be something in my alley.
i can’t agree more..need to be more upmarket
*drool*
but.. for production, better interior pls… :)
wait for 2013 when totally new saga platform is introduce…. plus mini mpv.. plus suv.. plus global small car
d right time to purchase MPV…..
Still long way to go.
Proton said the latest production EV & hybrid car should be in 2013.
UK buyers hate saloons, so don’t expect Saga EV to be sold in UK.
they have Lotus City Car for UK market
Er, actually, Proton UK can’t wait to sell the Exora REEV and Saga EV.
Lots of incentives for EVs such as govt rebate, zero road tax, exemption from London congestion charge, free parking in the city etc
he’s indonesian, he doesn’t know anything.
Protong UK want to sell does not mean the market want to buy.
its a big ‘IF” as the EV and REEV requires major infrastructure overhaul. Imagine come 2013, you will be ‘charging’ your car at offices, hotels and car parks instead of petrol station (even at 30 mins per car it is not viable for a petrol station to be converted to ‘charging’ station).
then we as educated malaysian.. think of a ways to improve our own country infrastructure.. we have a year now to do RND.. think out ways to make this happened
1. Prepaid card for charging at shopping complex
2. Charging station at restaurant and RNR
3. charging station at aptments and condos
just imagine there is a business opportunities lurking when this is visualize..
wake up malaysian show the world that we can be as great as they are…
then we as educated malaysian.. think of a ways to improve our own country infrastructure.. we have a year now to do RND.. think out ways to make this happened
1. Prepaid card for charging at shopping complex
2. Charging station at restaurant and RNR
3. charging station at aptments and condos
4. Portable charging stations
just imagine there is a business opportunities lurking when this is visualize..
wake up malaysian show the world that we can be as great as they are…
Will those kind of infrastructure and facilities available in 2013?
Who will be responsible to provide the facilities?
Govt. can provide incentives and tax break etc. but no cash and expertise to create this business.
Proton is cash stretched as it is and I don’t think Petronas will be interested. TNB and Telekom, also incurring losses year after year.
Other monopoly comp. is the gaming industry (Magnum/Genting) but they are not interested to invest in Malaysia.
Maxis/Digi – their kind of business also changing year to year and I don’t think they have the capital to do this business.
At the end of the day, the infra will only be ready (after 1 yr) in Klang Valley and towards the end of the model lifespan then other part of the country will buy the car.
For Proton to make money they must try to get business in cash rich but densely populated country like Singapore and Japan.
Some people in Singapore may be cash rich, but the Singapore market is very small. Even if Proton completely takes over from the most popular brand Toyota, the volume is still only about 500 cars per month, similar to the volume of Satria Neo in Malaysia, which is only ten percent of the Persona volume. I doubt Proton is making much money from Satria Neo, if it is making money at all.
squeeze all malaysian is the only strategy for Protong.
haiyaaa..always thinking negative..
duduk la bwh tempurung until die… tak nak step foward langsung ke
we still have Dato TF and his fren
Not necessary for REEV i think since they have some sort of generator built in to continue charging the battery. The fuel in REEV is used to power up the generator. The main charging for the battery can be done at home so that should eliminates the need for charging station. It is said that with REEV, the range can be extended up to 700km per single charge.
Please correct me if I am wrong about this.
if im not mistaken, the distance is 140km on fully charged battery, and up too 1000km if include range extender, full tank for Exora REEV is 20litre only. so imagine a fully charge battery and 20litre of petrol could bring you from JB to Bkt Kayu Hitam!
we are talking about saga EV.. its a fully EV car… yes REEV will have small engine to charge the battery…. but if we already have all the infra, no doubt they will be variety of evs…. then vendor pouring in to open factory here for ev equipment… think outside the box guys…
Imagine if you can just stop at a refueling station and slap in a new fully charged battery in place of the depleted one. You can basically drive non-stop with such an infrastructure.
If viva comes with hybrid, i am sure the price will be similar or a bit higher than current due to tax waived. Viva is among lowest fc car in Malaysia, with hybrid, more jimat especially during traffic jammed.
Why not Perodua embark this project? The oil price will higher soon. Battery powered? Yes but there is long way to go here in Malaysia.
the don’t have the technology….
Not exactly.
In order to yield the best results from “hybridization”, one should start with a normal car or one that currently could use a boost (ie. the fuel hungry Exora – which could 1- use the extra torque, 2- cut down on fuel consumption)
Adding that much extra weight ( and the space needed for the electronics and battery pack) and complexity to an already frugal car like a Viva is really pointless, you are hitting diminishing returns. if you suggest P2 doing up a Alza Hybrid, then perhaps it makes a little more sense.
Perodua is just a ‘cut n paste’ + rebadge car. No rnd.. Haha
from what i heard from internal source, they already started…. design bumper and spoiler… hahaha
Satria neo EV sounds better
Better try with saloon car first because satria is small compared to saga, persona & Exora.. =)
No dude. Satria Neo EV only good for Drag Strip. Hooo YESSSS!!!!!
Coz weight distribution will kill the excellent driving dynamics.
Every thing look OK, but the looks…
P1 shall give it a little big more modern look…
i believe by the time they launch Saga EV in 2013, they would have totally new Saga replacement.
yada yada Saga replacement in 2013, but why the 7 years old Gen2/Persona haven’t been replace yet until now… 2013 as well?
wei katak.. duduk diam diam under your coconut shell la. Persona replacement is coming next year, probably around feb/march. Satria and Gen2 only serve small market, and usually those kind of car have longer selling period than sedans, perhaps 7-8 years until their replacement are introduced.
Why so rage? I just said the truth. Isn’t Gen2/Persona is 7 years old? Don’t forget next year is 2012 and Feb is just 4 month ahead.
Can’t you accept it? Pathetic loser heh
persona 7 years old?hmmm….
persona replacement just around the corner laa…
don’t u know?
just hope that it do not get worse
for proton, frazer nash is doing all these work
and back here proton appointed UTM as research centre somesort
so in a nutshell are proton telling me they dont have onboard expertise on EVs? and hybrids?
so they are not that well prepared to this new field?
come on. for this to come out for mass production, proton must be more prepared
services. emergencies. information. etc etc. cant expect the owners to tow the cars to nearest electrician.
i read somewhere about BMW getting their electric turbocharger out
dont tell me they also doing what proton is doing i.e getting sources from outside in this electric/hybrid thing?
however, this is a great news
come on come on
hurry uppppp
It will take times to build in house expertise. Plus it is cheaper to engage an experienced third party. If you read about Toyota and Nissan, they also engaged third party to do the R&D. Proton is not doing something backward, they are following what other manufacturer are doing.
Doing the R&D and servicing the car are two different things.
even engineer only specialized in certain sector only. automotive engineer shouldn’t be doing civil engineering, and so on… appoint or employ the right people for the right task.. let the Frazer Nash do what they do best, so proton could focus their resources to other matters. even Nissan is doing research work with university in Japan.
but i heard proton also sending their engineers to Frazer & Nash to learn and bring the tech into Proton. I heard similar thing when they appoint Italdesign Giugiaro last time.
i need them to learn as much as they can
and as fast as they can
i dont want what happened with lotus, to happen again
nevermind we shall bide our time
i do trust proton to come good in this ev, hybrid thing
because the playing field level again and no longer we are 100-50 years behind
its all new thing all round and all i can say with all these fantastic engineering capabilities, certainly proton can gain big
its good to have outside of car company to work for something that the car never had before… they would think outside the box in this case… for those who already work specialize in some area..sometimes the mind already made up with this is impossible and need convincing from outside world…
not only proton, not only malaysia.. its everywhere.
yes, car manufacturers in Germany did a same thing. they will have a meeting with all technical and research universities and discuss what is the tech they want in their car in next 10 years. then, they will give money/grant to those universities to do research for them. go and ask people who have studied in Germany especially master by research or phd students. they will give you exactly same answer as what i tell u now.
this type of industrial-university collaboration doesn’t exist or if any to small in Malaysia.
so it a good move when p1 set a lab in UTM for EV. some small brain citizen will say ‘what a waste”, but for long term, it will benefit manufacturer, universities and most important the students who then becoming a highly skills engineer.
In Malaysia, Proton is the one asking for the money/incentives/grant from the Rakyat. (Government)
That’s Proton Way!
dont you know many master/phd student, lecturer or any gov researcher asking grant from gov..that not include private institution or company…i have taste that grant money several yrs ago for research n pocket money(RA maa…)..bout RM80k for 1 team of researcher that im taking part..that only for small research..if u want to know how much proton get grant money just read their financial report
Bentley asked for grant from the UK govt and got it. Lotus asked for grant from the UK govt and got it. So what’s the difference?
PROTONG has been getting GRANT since day1!! with so many fake R&D project. I heard this from a Protong researcher himself. Nah, we just submit the paper and the purpose is to get the money. Period. That is PROTONG!! admit it.
as i am a researcher i have been getting govt grant from day 1 and I don’t work for Proton. Govt research grant in Malaysia as also in the rest of the world are available for everybody
I strongly feel that my next car will be an electric or hybrid=)
Pls stop teasing us n produce that shit ASAP!
Proud to be Malaysian – haha – May God Bless Proton and Perodua – Cheers
come on la proton …hurry up made it into production !
Proton has its work cut out on that excessive body roll.
they shud redesign the menu…looks dumb…
Better torque than Honda CR-Z Hybrid Malaysia
Hope to see a Satria EV tuned for sporty driving in the future.
i hope p1 would also make new arena ev with this tech. with the extra space at the back…maybe can install small portable elect. generator set powered by natural gas. that would be instant reev conversion :).
27 years in the ‘internal combustion engine’ sector is struggling to survive now want to make electric cars.
Power window issue also took 25 years to sort out even then to claim the warranty is almost imposible after reading the fine print.
Ni#mah
majority of the readers do know which info to extract dude…
Saga EV and Exora REEV plug in hybrid in 2013? We are waiting…
I would love to have an electric car for city use and just charge it at home. The ultimate goal? Get some solar panels on my roof hehehe……
For long distances just use a hybrid :), the future of safe, comfortable and efficient travelling..!!!
By 2013, there will be charging stations around Putrajaya and Cyberjaya.. I believe used by government officials.. More charging stations popping out in the future..
JANGAN SEMBANG JE LEBIH!! INVEST DUIT BINA CHARGING STATIONS SELURUH MALAYSIA!! JGN DOK KOMPLEN JE SEGALA2NYA KT MALAYSIA NI SERBA X KENA!!