It seems that the talks between Khazanah Nasional and Volkswagen officials in New York last week on a Proton-Volkswagen partnership ended in a positive tone, and a follow-up meeting has been scheduled to be held somewhere in Bangkok, though there was no specific date reported anywhere in the press.
Anyway on a sidenote, I am beginning to wonder why most press insists on saying the talks are between Proton and Volkswagen when it is actually in fact between Khazanah Nasional and Volkswagen. That is a big difference.
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so Paul u set the tone lah, put ur header as "Khazanah-VW Partnership".. hehe..
I think mayb by putting Proton its more obvious, thts why…
Different. It is a Proton-VW partnership, but Khazanah-VW talks.
hmmm that makes sense.
i tink khazana -vw talks are concerning the equity stake n how much to sell to vw.if its a proton -vw talks means khazana- vw talks hav concluded so the next step is for proton -vw to start the technical aspects of the partership !
Maybe because the Khazanah guys who met VW in NY also the non-executive directors of Proton. They represent Proton, and the press also assume that they are Proton guys. Remember that Khazanah put some of its guys in Proton's board.
talk…talk..talk…talk……talk…..talk x1000. never ending story. always talk like cock until become rock and this rock drive proton saga on year 2080. it's not impossible.
Next news would be Proton-VW Partnership talks are off. No further talks until further notice. Like cancelling a game of cards.
finger cross for a cheaper toureg or a cheaper passat…
cheaper toureg & passat?..if the G still & will controlled over the car taxs & price in our country..that will not happens…in your dream
This will just go on & on forever.
Which fool would wanna deal with a company which goes constantly red in the accounting books.
PW- Proton Wagen…
No national cars pls..We want a free market!
I want u, I want u not, I want u, I want u not…
It's getting really tiring… just thinking abt this 'telenovela' will put u to sleep instantly, no need to count sheep
Another ROUND to Boost up the share Price!
First come First Serve.
Malaysia BOLEH! Kanazah Boleh! Semua Sokong …..Sokong apa….tak tahu lah…sokong sokong lah….nanti Share price akan jadi baik.
Untung Untung Untung……janji Untung.
hmm……..khazanah, i been to his office in klcc. deal with some of the big guys before. is a government company which also owns proton shares. so not much difference i guess talking to proton or khazanah. just wondering why talk so long yet so far?
Letz mambo and cha cha… Haiz… Always want to manipulate the share market.. Maybe after this talk say fail, market share fall like shyt.. then suddenly VW bought all the 51% of P1 share.. wa la! Worst scenario is… suddenly NAZA bought all the 51%.. WAH! I dont want a hyundai or kia to drive! I want a GOLF GT/GTI!
In the end, its the hardworking, ordinary, decent TAX PAYING rakyat that has to bear the burden… MALAYSIA BOLEH!
IMO…. i think paul's rite, talking to Khazanah is quite very different to talking to proton. why… lets put it this way.
Proton, being the national car company belongs to the country. It is a rightful Malaysian company, it is our pride and joy and losing it to foreign grubby hands would also cause many many "top" people to lose face.
Khazanah Nasional is also a crown jewel, it is the investment holding arm of the Government of Malaysia. And all investments go through, bingo, the ministry of finance, and the top dude in charge? No prizes for guessing the correct ans, but a nice wedding ang pow would be nice.
Now, assume this. VW buys proton.. damm malu man… dead people would even rise from their graves.. hehheh.. know what i mean..
BUT BUT BUT…. if, just if, proton sells/transfers/changes/*insert your own word here * its ownership over to Khazanah. and Khazanah then manages to merge/sell/transfers/JV/etc.. it ownership/equity to VW.. then it wouldn't be so malu for the stake holders of proton.
besides the stakeholders of proton will be well compensated for since khazanah will be assumed to buy proton back from the red using government funds… so maybe malu also nvm lah…. pocket got dough most important…otherwise go wedding how to give angpow..
sigh.. if i got some money… i sure go buy proton shares.. but then again im just wondering how much will VW actually pay…
hmm..
P.S: somebody should do a wiki on the term monetization in the great malaysian context. Many things going into something can turn in nothing, and over time with the right will and methods,absolutely trash can also be turned into many things.
They will only come out with a decision after trying out the best hotels and resorts in New York and Pangkor respectively… I'm sure the Malaysian delegates brought along a copy of the World' s Best Hotels Guide 2007 booklet with him/her… So, after Pangkor, the Bahamas maybe??
i tot i read it on berita harian today say the meeting will be held at Bangkok, not pangkor… Comfirm it can? i still confuce.. if really in bangkok. P1 will be feeling some heat, coz the VW may say if P1 cannot agree their terms, they just invest on bangkok or in indonesia…
It is Bangkok. Bernama corrected themselves yesterday.
Weird isn't it. Seems like every time there's a P1-VW talk, the G comes in to interfere, then the talk failed. Again and again ever since 2005. I think the G are incompetent and not P1.
Then when PM announce to the media that VW talk is over and ask P1 to do what ever they can to resurrect. Everything seems to work again. P1 really want to work with VW
I strongly believe that the G is the culprit for all the failure in negotiation between P1 and VW
It is Bangkok. Bernama corrected themselves yesterday.
Weird isn't it. Seems like every time there's a P1-VW talk, the G comes in to interfere, then the talk failed. Again and again ever since 2005. I think the G are incompetent and not P1.
Then when PM anounce to the media that VW talk is over and ask P1 to do what ever they can to resurrect. Everything seems to work again. P1 really want to work with VW
I strongly believe that the G is the culprit for all the failure in negotiation between P1 and VW
If i may add… the G is always there for supervisory purposes…. heard of the term "absolute power corrupts absolutely…" well… how can an entity be expected to perform at its best when its hands are cuffed.
This situation is worsen by the "croynism" tradition inherent in our governement systems… of course proton won't be able to perform. imagine if ur proton's mgmt, whose balls are you gonna suck…. your shareholders,your customers,or the ministry of Finance, or your vendors. evidence shows that your gonna suck up to everyone except your customers… coz we customers are still busy eating shit….
even if you or me were working top dog at proton, i doubt we could change anything. the point is… would you bite the hand that feeds you?
anyway.. proton must close down. but then again, whats the use… after the big hoohah circus…. when things die down abit…
we get hundreds of other proton "wannabes"…. all thinking of milking the cow dry…. my analysis, as long as we have the black gold, and as long as petronas is profitable, we shuold be ok, but if our oil runs out… man…. then the shit will start to surface.
fine. close down proton. but will that help malaysia?
what else must be change? think hard.
Well said, ossd. You read my mind.
But come to think about it, would it help if they close down P1? Will the G reduce the the price of vehicles?
AGREED. THINK HARD…
for some strange reason thats is definitely way beyond all of use here, especially the ones who continue to condemn proton and to say that its useless for nothing… Large foreign car companies continue to go against the odds and deal with Malaysian Govt. red tape to try to secure Proton as their very own..
isn't it weird? that somehow, these automotive giants see value in proton, when us Malaysians, do not see any value whatsoever.. i really start to wonder who are the stupid ones, them or us?
your welcome Ang8888,
just my 2 cents worth of rant. coz i'm so pissed that in order to buy a car… i need to pay for the car+import duty+excise tax+stamp duty+govt tax+service charge+JPJ "citizen's teabreak contribution" +TP "citizen's teabreak contribution"…. and then i kena charged extra for doormats and anti slip doorsils wtf thingys for yet dunno how much… and the day after realising my radiator fan not working.. then the stoopid sc charge me RM5 for documentation fees to claim my warranty and teling me to wait 3 weeks for a replacement, all the while looking at me with a "biasa wat! proton mah.. what you expect" look..
arghh….
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BanyakMasukWorkshop said,
June 13, 2007 @ 4:59 pm
for some strange reason thats is definitely way beyond all of use here, especially the ones who continue to condemn proton and to say that its useless for nothing… Large foreign car companies continue to go against the odds and deal with Malaysian Govt. red tape to try to secure Proton as their very own..
isn’t it weird? that somehow, these automotive giants see value in proton, when us Malaysians, do not see any value whatsoever.. i really start to wonder who are the stupid ones, them or us?
==hahaha. quite agree with u. but to let u know we are not stupid, just being bullied. somehow, we all did something that make this p1 losing money. just see what will come next.
a piece of advise, don't buy porton if u don't hv spare vehicle. hahahaha.
wahlaueh….
talk…..talk…still….talk……
absolute decisions power is always changing hand…. that's why just talk… new MD from P2 can't make any decision (i think)…. he may have the right objectives in the talk….
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BanyakMasukWorkshop said,
June 13, 2007 @ 4:59 pm
for some strange reason thats is definitely way beyond all of use here, especially the ones who continue to condemn proton and to say that its useless for nothing… Large foreign car companies continue to go against the odds and deal with Malaysian Govt. red tape to try to secure Proton as their very own..
isn’t it weird? that somehow, these automotive giants see value in proton, when us Malaysians, do not see any value whatsoever.. i really start to wonder who are the stupid ones, them or us?
———-
Heh its not like if they buy proton that they'll let it go on just as before, first thing they'll do is change the way it's run. They're interested in the production infrastructure and distribution networks, not in the oh-so-brilliant upper management. It's like a developer spotting a big house in a neighborhood they want to move into, where the current residents are idiots that have let it decay into such a poor state that they have to sell it cheaply. Just buy it up, fix it up and it will be great, just have to clear all the trash out first lol.
current residents = current management
cetait said,
Just buy it up, fix it up and it will be great, just have to clear all the trash out first lol.
I love the sound of it, at least they'll make it into a better company n oso produce better cars for us..hopefully with fair pirce tags too
hopefully…………..
woohoo .
not a japanese/local/american company take over.
smart move…
they only see value in proton because of a tax advantage that guarantees them sales…..regardless how lousy the car. do you honestly think that VW needs proton to penetrate markets worldwide? they only need proton to penetrate once again the guaranteed market that proton had in the 80's and 90's. they will not enter into an agreement with proton unless they are guaranteed by the government of this protectionism.
therefore u see why they are considering in. and you know that the government will not open up the market to other car makers, simply because if they do, nobody will buy vw/proton. by now u should realize that they will use the malaysian market as a cash cow for low grade cars (i.e polo quality but with premium price tag) simply because there is no competition from other makes (as long as they are 'taxed' out of the equation). vw is still a low volume seller worldwide and profits very little from each car sold. they will squeez as much out from the malaysian cash cow as they can.
while it is good that they may increase the quality of proton, but do not expect vw quality at an affordable price. simply because no competition will exist as long as proton is in the picture and they way i see it the government is proton…one way or the other.
the future of malaysia does not lie with proton breaking into the local or international market. but rather in retaining talent and attracting foreign investment within malaysia. not many people profit if proton succeeds anyway as history has taught us.
petronas is profitable. but comes mostly at expense of local people. if u have dealt with them in business then u will understand how they make thier money. its a bad company to do business with.
Well, i dont think is true VW will squeeze our people $$$ more then the G does…
I think u forget that the VW is one of the biggest company in Europe and no.4 in world ranking.. Audi, porche, seat, skoda, lamborgini, bently and buggati is under VW hands.. Even VW cars sells so little.. The royalty and share they get from his sub companies already can survive VW for such a long history.. I think VW already exits during the ages of Adolf Hitler in the 1930s and they survived so long… Well for a company who has so much exp in car industri, who do u want to trust a G who only knows talk, or a real VW company who know how to made "People's car" ? Think of you and your loves 1 before u purchase a new car next time…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen
Anywayz topgunthang.. Are u a P1 supporter? Well i think you should, but i forget to write above is that, VW is not only selling in Malaysia.. Do u remember the NAP issue? VW want to take P1 coz of the open market.. Our cars can sell to Japan and other asia country with less tax.. VW want to be Renault that take control over Nissan so that he can sell more his cars and technology to asia country… The main aim of VW taking P1 is to sell it around our neighbors or asia tenggara.. If u think his quality sucks, well his publicity will sure bad and people muse be sueing him for millions coz of unsafety car to drive… They have safety standarts more advance the P1 and engine technology like twincharge 1.4TSi engine.. If the recent P1 management can give u what? Campro with CPS? Safety? Lotus handling? Even now their $$$ is in trouble.. do u really think that without any help P1 will survive the global trend? Think again?
littlefire…
i believe you are a true P1 supporter. a patriot nonetheless. However, P1 has been given around what…20-30 years to grow and see what they have become. While your argument is correct that P1 will be much better off with VW as a partner, i think the problem is WHEN the become partners, the rakyat will not be better off due to the protectionist policies afforded to P1.
It justs common sense, if i were VW, of course i will have my long term plan to conquer the south east asian markets and world domination and all that stuff… but while i on my way there, why not setup base at some "friendly" and "willing" halfway points and see what opportunities i can get…what we have here is a foreign company that could take advantage of our G policies and milk the cash cow dry. and all at the expense of the people.
Now, I don't think thats right. Its not only wrong because VW are using such "lobangs" that are ethically wrong. It very very wrong because we have such a protectionist policy in the first place. Human nature perverts the course of such noble ideals.
But realisticly, of course proton will merge when the right conditions and terms are met. Of course proton share price will go up. Of course this is no good for us stoopid conusmers. But hey…. $$$ makes the world go round…
proton is 21 years old, and have always been led by a "national agenda".
Whoever becomes protons "partner" which is very clearly mentioned in all the quotes from govt. It is a partner, and not an "owner". I'm pretty sure no foreigner will never have a majority stake. Therefore, whoever who comes in as partner, will still need to meet the "national" agenda set by proton.
thats my 2 cents.
and no, I dont need a spare proton that has problems, I already drive a car with lots of problems LOL (its actually really very reliable, but people have the perception that it is not)
Talk complain, no talk also complain.
Positive meeting complain, negative meeting also complain.
Meeting now complain, prospone meeting also complain.
What action you want Proton to do?
Please stop this bashing.
Sorry, spelling correction:
complaint NOT complain
littlefire85
No. im not p1 supporter. i am pretty sure proton cars will not be getting the twincharged tsi engine or 2.0 fsi engine. even bu the odd chance it will be very high up in the range. considering proton's low end is already overpriced. then lets not think into poor man's sportscar territory i.e VW GTI.
proton is just waiting for a partner. it can be anybody that will give them a lifeline. basically they will depend on the other company to do most of the work. depending if the condition is right, the partner will accept the deal even though they will be doing most of the work but they will still profit a bit from this (as compared to proton…or government or a few individuals who will take most of the milk). Thats how they survived in the past(with mitsubishi), and thats how they will still run the company in the future. Why try to improve when u can make cheap lousy cars and still be guaranteed a fortune.
A merger only guarantees one thing. other car makes are taxed out of the competition. while if proton colapses at least there will be a chance for a fair playing field (in the motor industry of msia at least) and definitely a chance for us to move on to more productive ventures.
Yes. gen2, Savvy and neo are lousy cars. there is no doubt about it compared to the competition. i want proton to fold shop and leave. sell it to a dumb foreigner.
Paul, stick where you are good at, stay away from politics. I doubt you know who are the cabinet ministers (not that they any good knowing of anyway).
Media runs on hype. If u put Khazanah, nobody will even glance at it. Anyway, in a way, it is true. Do you think Khazanah will talk about Mara or Celcom or Tabung Haji or KWSP when they are meeting up with VW?
As for VW plans, I doubt they want to have another Skoda/Seat here. Proton has good platforms and the Tg Malim plant is also a bonus. What VW will do is to come out with a new range of cars based on Proton's platform (if you guys are smart enough, creating a platform is expensive and time consuming) and use it to penetrate the market here.
From here, they can also move into China. Proton, daft it may be, has a good R&D base, and if they have good mentors, they can come out with something good. As for vendors, we have some good vendors here who are already supplying DCM, UMW and others.
But then again, would the Hang Tuah and Hang Jebat in Proton's BOD willing to forgo their power (ie business) when the mat saleh comes in?
Who says Proton is for the rakyat? We are lucky they can mustler out nice cars (to drive) like the Neo and the SAvvy (they hell if u say these are rubbish, it can outcorner your blardy old Altis,Sentra, Civic anytime, in stock!). But we are all paying a premium to all our crappy cars, EXCEPT the Accent where you get nice Kajang-made bodykit, twin false-exhaust tailpipes and a wonderful anti-aerodynamics hood scoop.