Proton is currently in talks with foreign parties on the development of higher displacement engines such as 1.8 litre and 2.0 litre to complement the existing Campro IAFM and Campro CPS range of 1.3 and 1.6 litre engines. Something will be announced by mid-2008 regarding this, and it will likely involve a tie-up with a foreign car manufacturer.
Proton is also looking into diesel engines for its cars, as diesels are important for new markets that Proton wants to enter such as the Indian market. A foreign partner will also be a part of this as it would be very costly to self-develop a diesel engine all by its own.
In India, the availability of a diesel engine can make or break a model. Lackluster sales of compact cars such as the Chevrolet Aveo notchback sedan are attributed to the lack of a diesel engine by many Indian automotive journalists.
Looking to sell your car? Sell it with Carro.
Can’t wait for new Waja/Perdana replacement with these engines…
Its in line with their MPV coming soon next year.
since they having a 2.0diesel in wira is a good starting y they stop it … maybe it is nice plan if 1.2TDI for savvy ~ 1.4TDI for Neo n 1.8TDI for Waja/Gen2 hehe … hope soon
ndmervin, do you mean the new MPV going to share same platform with new perdana/waja? I thought the new MPV is sharing platform with gen2/persona/neo…
for 1.8 & 2.0 engine, why not proton using petronas’s eo1 engine?…
sifu paultan, can u clarify this?
i thought the campro engine is capable to go up to 2.0 litres? what happened?
These larger engines are probably for future models and will not likely make it into the initial version of the MPV as I dont think there is enough time for testing. I think no one at Proton wants another Waja 1.8 case.
The Campro is maxed out or very near to maxed out at 1.6 – the bore and stroke cannot really be increased much further as the block is too small. If you look at the GEN2 Facelift post, there is a video showing a cut-away of a Campro engine – the space between combustion chambers is not very thick.
Please let it be a modern turbo diesel…
deal with BMW lah.. haha
1.8 and 2.0 CPS+ VIM or IAFM…for bigger model…maybe full scale of MPV. then, which proton engine can produce 170 hp as mentioned by si-fu earlier?
Its about time Proton develop diesel engine. Hopefully our government will reduce diesel engine road tax. I’m itching to own a turbodiesel car but the cost factor of the road tax sets me back. A turbodiesel Waja would be a very nice addition to the Proton family.
if they make a diesel engine, the benchmark should be the Honda 2.2 diesel and the BMW 320d…
Yes…hopefully P1 diesel will be as gud as those in the Santa Fe 2.2CRDi…..test ride recently the santa fe, excellent performance wt huge torque at low rpm, gud FC & quite cheap road tax at about RM600/yr…It will make Lots of Sense to put this diesel into the new MPV…now we’re torqueing…hahahaha (cam swift advert…)
Proton goin diesel again. The last time, Proton have wira in diesel it was aa failure. hopefully wit the new venture, we get better engine and our diesel quality will improve too. also, more diesel cars will make it here.
anyone looked at Proton shares lately?
This mean one thing for sure. The next year MPV will be fitted with 1.6 Campro engine. Maybe the two version same found in the new Gen2.
don’t you think that diesel might not be good for the environment?
Well if anything, diesel engines are much cleaner than petrol ones. Some manufacturers are turning to diesels now to lower their average emission across their whole range, so that they can comply to the forthcoming EU rule..
at least now proton has plans…
maybe another tie up with Renault and use their engine?
Paul, if any chance you happen to talk to any proton’s management, just ask them one quick question like bestofamat’s asked above : Why dont Proton & Petronas work together and use the EO1 instead of searching for outsider’s “help”?
Please dont repeat same “collaboration” like they did with mitsubishi…
“Why dont Proton & Petronas work together and use the EO1 instead of searching for outsider’s “helpâ€?”
that petronas and Eo1 story was over a long time ago. the EO1 is an engine thats not ready for production. Proton would have had to spend millions of RM still to get it to production stage, and even then, proton would not own the rights to the engine apparently. which is why they went the campro route where they would own all the rights to the engine.
i also think its a much better idea to work with a company thats already got plenty of experience producing massproduced engines, and who has engines of all variants and types rather than working with an oil company who has a prototype engine and nothing much else.
smell like Renault for petrol & diesel from Nissan(maybe)…
Proton is looking in the right direction, thankfully. Yes the CAMPRO engine family (originally called S-ENG) was only meant to cater to 1.3 to 1.6 cc size.
A 1.8 and 2.0 will fill up a missing segment. The NEO honestly could do with a 1.8 engine. Perhaps a 2.0 to drop into the perdana replacement and MPV. Not sure whether the 2.0 would be 4cyl or V6. I think a V6 would make sense for the benefit of refinement. I think by them saying that they need a technology partner for 1.8 and 2.0 means they want to ‘share’ an existing engine hopefully later designing their own. Designing a new engine family from scratch is very costly for Proton.
The Campro engine for instance took something like 8 or so years to come to fruition. Bloody long time.
mystvearn said,
March 4, 2008 @ 8:42 pm
maybe another tie up with Renault and use their engine?
———————————————————
I had the same thought as you. Renault and Citroens, well most European car manufacturers have a habit of coming out with hardy, modern and fuel efficient diesel engines. The question lies with which car manufacturer that Proton wants to source diesel engines from ? MB and BMW is out of the list due to cost factors, VW ? hmmmm maybe…my hunch could be either from Renault or PSA Group or from even from GM European Division..Opel..
Has there been news that Proton is talking to Renault/Nissan? Wondering why Renault is mentioned. The Renault 1.2 engine in Savvy is a one off deal.
Proton would be better off inmy opinion looking at europeans like VW group for technology partnership. The Germans got the lead in diesel technology using Bosch systems. Bosch is already a big supplier to Proton. Neo use Bosch brake pads among other Bosch components.
FYI Audi dominated and continues to dominate Le Mans with the Audi R10 TDi diesel. Nothing can catch it. To add insult to other cars the Audi R10 race with oxidation catalysts (catalytic converter for diesels) The Peugeot 908 HDi FAP diesels tried hard to keep up but couldn’t.
Wilfred said,
March 4, 2008 @ 6:22 pm
don’t you think that diesel might not be good for the environment?
—————————————————————-
No, in fact the diesel engines are cleaner and more efficient than our petrol engines.
Diesels cleaner? I think yes and no. It contains more soot(carbon) but I think less noxious gasses than petrol. The trump card is diesel engines have higher thermal efficiency(if I used the term correctly). More potential energy is in a litre of diesel than from a litre of petrol. Diesel engines work on compression-ignition. Petrol engines on spark-ignition. If we can operate a petrol engine using compression-ignition like diesel, efficiency would jump tremendously.
Mercedes is developing this I believe with their Blutec (unsure spelling) engine technology. A petrol engine that is able to vary it’s compression ratio and actually be able to operate under compression-ignition. If it works it would be quite remarkble possibly the most fuel eficient petrol engine in the world by leaps
My bad. The Mercedes technology I’m referringto is not Bluetec. It’s DiesOtto. It’s an engine that is able to operate both like petrol spark-ignition and diesel compression-ignition in one engine. Quite remarkable
i have a feeling that this new diesel engine will be fitted in the new MPV…
i think.. it’s the time proton to move forward.. they already have the experience… developing the engine… they not start from zero… not all the first thing it is the good thing… but can manage later… it’s kaisen style..
Right, make a diesel and sell it to the European market. Not here. Coz it doesn’t make sense to sell here. The stupid road tax scheme has got to be revamped. Instead of pricing it against the engine capacity, why not the FC and CO2? Yeah and review it every 3 years. Force us lowly peasants to fork out money for a car every 10 years. RX8 owners are gonna scream.
Think about it. Get back the petrodollars by taxing gas guzlers. Spend on alternative fuel studies. Truth is; those peeps in the House has got an S320 (or 750i) stashed somewhere. So you think they would sign on the dotted line?
Aw c’mon! We know how they work don’t we? Its the ‘What’s-In-It-For-Me?’ question. It would never happen.
Ferrucio. Its still a hydrocarbon. The NOX and SOx are there naturally from the oil well in the ground. More Sulphur from imported crude. You clean it up before it goes into the cracker tower. That’s bitumen at the bottom. Kerosene on top. Somehwere in the middle that’s Gasoline (mogas) and diesel below it. Below diesel is nasty fuel oil for ships.
That soot and Nox and Sox’s from incomplete combustion. Diesel burn more completely than gasoline. But dirty diesel does not burn completely.
Ooooh and that 1% benzene in gasoline is a known carcinogenic. Smell those fumes when you stop at the pump. Funny how they put it in really fine print at the pump. Go look and see.
2.0 turbodiesel, anyone?
i always thought sacking TM was a mistake…but this SZ is a better person…he keeps his word..he launch the cars as when he said he would..
and now diesel engines..thats actually a great news..in our country diesel is not so famous or widely use for cars and MPVs..in europe..almost 70 % of the new car buyers are switching to diesel…its cheaper,cleaner(now),better mileage..enough power and more than enough torque available..credit should be given to SZ and the team for working in such a rapid rate!!
the next best thing to do is supercharge or turbocharge the smaller campro engine to be fitter in the baseline model of the MPV for better fc like VW and fiat trying to do…bring in the all new proton waja to be in the same class as civic,lancer,focus and altis..so it would push perdana to an higher class like accord and camry..and use that platform to make larger MPV and SUVs…the make a super compact peoples car with two cylinder engine with a electric motor(hybrid) better refinement than TATA’s nano!!something like suzuki splash… and finally mix and match platforms and technology like toyota to create more models..proton should concentrate on ASIA..especially india and china cause these countries are the most rapidly growing once…forget Europe and australia for a while…
use piezo-injector for their diesel technology
hopefully~~
Wira diesel actually failed because of peoples perception on diesel engine… like emitting black smoke, loud engine and underpower… have a chance to ride in one… actually its a good car with a good engine only could help with better NVH
I am surprised only now….now only proton wants to relook at diesel powered vehicles.
What happened to the previous D2.0 version wira?
What happened to the Envo-diesel that was launched by the PM?
Instead of building one from scratch, maybe they should just take a ready made and put into a new model, just like the Renault engine for Savvy.
Such a venture could be an indication Proton is attempting to creep into the heavy vehicles market by studying more powerful powertrains intended for large lorries, pickups, commercial van and buses.
With a partner specialised in heavy vehicles, Proton could easy learn to produce these vehicles on their own (for a decade or two, at worst) and ditch them when the time comes, just like it did with Mitsubishi for passenger cars. From that point on, Proton could face off with Inokom’s CKD trucks.
It would be nice if they work on something readily available… like a STOCK NGV.
It would be very nice too if they can ever make a TDI, but I doubt it will be near future.
And take note that when we speak about diesel engine, it should be at least a commonrail “green” diesel engine with proper technology to reduce diesel particle soot and black smoke.
I still remember in the old days people think of diesel as a polluting source, nowadays this has changed, diesel being a cleaner and lower running cost! But it is only true that if its a latest technology diesel.
rexis,
The problem in Malaysia is our poor diesel quality. It ruins the best high tech green diesel engines the europeans make.
Good idea if Proton produce diesel models but aim for foreign market.
Hi,
This is my first comment in this site although I have followed Paul’s ranting since early 2007 (and feed subscriber).
Although Proton has made progress in going into black as far as their account is concern, its share price is still way below its NTA. It is now hovering around RM3.92 to RM4.00 which way below its high around RM9 before the leadership crisis.
I believe Proton may have made progress in producing saleable car such as Proton Saga but it still need to beef up its effort to launch new models at least 2 per year. Proton must also ensure its new model are priced much lower than other make as it still can’t compete on design and quality (or rather people’s confidence level of perceived quality).
Fred Chan
@ferruccio
The gud news is, gahmen hv started to improve diesel quality to Euro 2 since last year. They’ve also said that they plan to achieve Euro 4 std in 2009, which means this yr’s diesel ought to be Euro 3 std. And I doubt it’s “just an election gimmick”, cuz it was announced at a time when election was hardly spoken of.
That said, the oni thing left now is for the gahmen to restructure the ludicrous road tax for diesel engines. They’re usually in the region of more than 2.5L, so normally, the savings from using diesel is pretty much killed by the amt of road tax that needs to b paid.
So many people talking abaout the Diesel-Powered engine, and referring it to Wira 2.0D.
From my 2 cents, i still remember the review of this Proton Wira Diesel. It’s body is same as other wira, but the engine was outsource from Citroen, in coolaboration of development of Proton Tiara. And the review said it’s cost of running at that time was better tahn 1.5 Wira petrol (at that time diesel fuel just cost you 50cents per liter).
And from my 2cents also, the lack of development of Diesel engine in Malaysia is mostly caused by the Diesel fuel available. As I understand Malaysia’s Diesel grade is only comply with Euro2 (correct me if I wrong) where in Europe the fuel itself is already up to Euro5. That is the major problem in here, and most of diesel-engine based car owner over here are complaining on this fuel as i makes the engine unefficient and makes it faster to wear off.
As ferruccio said about Audi R10 TDi engine it actually abeit advanced from normal Diesel engine, but the real performance factor is the type of Diesel they using it. Some sort like V-Power fuel for diesel engine, it’s using a blended of Diesel-NGV, which if it’s sell in Malaysia rite now, it will cost as much as V-Power petrol fuel.
As on my behalf, I glad to hear that Proton is going into 1.8 and 2.0 liter engine capacity, and hopefully they also will developed Rear-Wheel Drivetrain…hmmm just like R3 Waja..
Europe diesel engine still costly..
Double cost from japanese.
Avoid VW renault etc.. but try get Nissan.
IMHO , the best one is ISUZU!.. imagine.. the isuzu Dmax (best FC engine and performance wise) in a new proton mpv diesel.. should be a bomb!.
Isuzu not sell well in other business.. dealing with proton might be better for both of them..
Regards.. :D
ya, really should, or else those nice diesel-powered cars like VW Touareg diesel model won’t make it here…..
Yeah, I hv absolute faith in Isuzu diesel.
Used one Isuzu diesel sedan for 3 years way back in late 80’s to use it to travel around the States.
Bravo Isuzu.
Too bad could not get a diesel sedan here, excluding Merc, BMW and Audi :)
Cheers.
hey
remember proton hav deal with youngman in china?
which specialise in making commercial truck that run diesel engine?
shuold it coloborates/partners/suppliers, id say 1.8 or 2.0 patrol engine shoud be from the east,
because even lotus know the best heart for its machine is from the east,
and even the eastern made modern diesel is not bad,
so for the quest for engine efficiency, the present engine will be futher made adaptable towards the race for the engine efficiency, and not to forget the performance as part of the proton spirit,
just a tought
got some news on the mpv… it a JV between proton & honda… engine would be 2.0 & 2.5… engine source from whom still unknown… keep on drooling… :)
Maybe proton can consider more powerful forced induction engines rather than increase the displacement. Revise the current campro and comes out with forced induction vers with different power output according to application…save cost what rather than develop new from scratch.
diesel selling rate in turkey now about 85%
it means no diesel=no sale
i also think that some of the campro especially 1.3 really trimmed for a batter torque biased engine, but lower hp ofcourse
how? reduced valve number..
impossibe then, the whole new valvetrain needed,
so with existing 16v campro valvetrain, they can introduce a short duration intake valve with slightly lower lift, that certainly more to increase bottom end, what the need is newer camshaft with newer calibration, and engine management,
but to take the opportunity of this torque biased new power curve CVT is advisable for fuel economy,
if it manual probaly it would be a bit of an issue, but work the best if the driver drive sedately or short shifting,
just a tought,
basically campro is a very potent engine looking hp,
even batter with iafm and higher performer vim cps,
not alone the performance, but the engine that really design specifically for fuel efficient, its like having a choice of idsi or vtech like honda,,,
so, how? ask me, i have a lot of suggestion,
to do it,,,,,??
but i still belive campro engine still can go for another valvetrain design , to serve some who are looking solely the importance of km/l.
Everybody is focusing on Proton new engines..
but rarely focusing on our diesel/gasoline quality.
I have been to UK before this.. rented a car with TDi..
rarely found black fume coming out of the exhaust (except during cols starts)…
I guess all o&g supplier should starts to look at their products as well, despite their eagerness to sell conventional quality fuel at premium price though…
Just my opinion..