Right from the start of Driven Web Series, you viewers have requested for us to settle the D-segment dilemma. Your wish is our command, as we present to you this week’s shootout – Toyota Camry 2.5V vs Honda Accord 2.4 VTi-L vs Mazda6 2.5. So which is the King of company cars?
The Camry enters the ring with not much to fight with, but plenty to fight for. On its side is its long-standing clout of being the default go-to vehicle for most middle management folks. But as we’ve proved in Driven Web Series, being the best seller doesn’t always mean it’s the best. Sometimes yes, but mostly no.
That’s where the rejuvenated Honda Accord and refreshed Mazda6 come in. Each has a host of new tech to take the fight to the old-fashioned but extremely successful Toyota. It’s a classic clash of young upstarts against the old hand. Battle royales don’t get any bigger than this.
Or perhaps it does, as we have lined up a special surprise entry from the land of the South. South Korea, that is. Watch the video above to find out which K-pop superstar it is that we have deemed worthy to take on the established Japanese trio. Can it fight its way to the top?
Time flies when you’re having fun, doesn’t it? With the fifth episode now out, we’ve come to the end of our series. Don’t worry though, Driven Web Series will be back. Enjoy the full series here, and thank you for watching. And of course, stay tuned to paultan.org for the latest automotive news and reviews. Till next time!
Ha, I like the insertion of Sam Loo !! Well, and that does not make Camry the worst of the field !!
I just lol’ed
Well done! You guys have covered B, C, D segments cars, hot hatches and SUVs, so I’m guessing for the next installment would be an A segment shootout when the Proton GSC is out. Btw you guys should have used the i40 sedan rather than the tourer cause is a D segment sedans shootout after all. Also my impression of Sam Loo is exactly the same as the “Sam Loo” appeared in the video! At first, I thought he got famous and became a guest just because of his RV bs but thank God that wasn’t him. Phew..
Thank you Paul Tan! Im famous! Anyway, i’m now kimchi salesman after this episode!
Toyota still the best car in term of RV. Support sam loo comment
http://www.facebook.com/SamLooRV
Hidden due to lowcomment rating. Click here to see.
Hey bro, can you PM me the number of those ToToJackpot winners, especially the RM$20 million one, coz I wanna sell their children Ferrari or Lambo!
you must be superlucky to know so many RM20 jackpot winner or super unlucky not to win any when so many of your friends win them.
I don hate Toyota, but whatever you wrote is beyond logic. Win Rm20 million liao but buy Camry for reliability? what kind of BS is that? When you have Rm20 million and your brand new BMW breaks down, what do you do? get a new BMW/Mercedez or complain? get a new BMW of course, if break down again, get a brand new one again.
i got 20 million i will go get myself a range rover lah, can run over your camry anytime.
And i sprint faster than your camry, even with ACIS or what ever you call it lah.
Taking about RELIABILITY your Toiyota Hilux car beat the Kancil. Not even close.
What a joke from Sam Loo…
Stupid SamShowedMeTheHilux!
Only idiots like SamShowedMeTheHilux trying to work hard and spend all the money for a Toyota!
Any other brand’s car, even P1 or P2 serve the same purpose, transporting people around…
Are you sure you are not someone who purposely make Camry look worse by using reverse psychology?
I rather buy a modern truck which is cheaper with same or better spec than camry….
Toyota reliable yes but prestige really? Toyota is the people’s car a lot of people can afford it look around their everywhere! Watch the video Toyota has RV and reliability not much else it’s not luxurious nor prestige they have Lexus for that.
people who knows car in and out and about technical stuff will not argue with people who has a big ego and small brain like you. the truth is that why do technical guys wanna even argue things with you when things u know is only like 10% of our knowledge?
This guy is just trying to provoke ppl with his silly comments. Absolute joker!
I still remember what Mr. Toyota once said:
“I dont care if Toyota is the no. 1 in the world, but I do care that Toyota is the no.1 to our customers”….
So please translate that to their business philosophy.
They dont care so many bashers/haters/fartkers here in Paul Tan that disapproves Toyota brands/models…..
as long as 1- existing customers continue to buy Toyota 2- New customers prefers Toyota over other brands 3- Other customers switch to Toyota brands…..
So now, compare this philosophy to P1: (normal respond from P1 if we complaint)
1- Idiot, why u buy P1, go buy other model
2- Standard la P1, of coz vendor installed low quality power window part
3- You are not our only customers, go fly kite la buy other brands
4- Factory QC guys no good, we at Sales Room got no choice to pass this car with this QC level. Why dont you take this car 1st, then you send back to our workshop back there and claim for warranty….
Hehehe, sounds familiar???? This is the bull rants for P1 buyers….10 years ago…..and still the same rants today….
P1 never improve….
You guys clever to use my name, but I forgive all of you in the spirit of good motoring and RV. I like the humour though, despite being at my expense. You guys are good motoring journalist who know how to give objective reviews.
However, Jonathan James, please lah, cut your hair. You beginning to look like David Arumugam!. Keep your hair neat, otherwise kutu will come.
I am happy to be quoted in your show. Remember, RV is also important and remember, Toyota is in the same league as Rolls Royce, Bentley and Jaguar. So, buying a Toyota, is buying prestige.
Infact, the Queen of England, with all her wealth and many Rolls Royces and Jaguars, secretly owns a Hilux. She import into UK to use.
Nice hari style James. Keep the hair. One day you can put C4 inside the hair and blast kow Sam Loo.
Toyota so reliable and efficient that after years of Hilux and Land cruiser diesel engines, they bought a BMW diesel to… wait for it… chase new customers in Europe… and what happened to Sam Loo’s Jaguar RR and bentley’s RV? Not in the same league as Toyota lah.. come on. And don’t forget the GM products rebadged as toyota such as Lexcen in Australia….
Sam Loo goes to Mollywood.
i lel at Sam Loo.
I salute that guy dare to act as Sorhai Sam Loo, not scare later get out let ppl Smack Down!
In the end, they write that he not the real Sam Loo ma ….. no worries XD
Who keep calling my name, I keep sniffing non-stop!
Do you mean ‘sneezing’?
Nah he meant it the first time he said it; sniffing. Dogs sniff… and bark about Resale Value.
I bet Sam Loo looks like a bulldog.
Sam Loo disliked your comment
madza 6 FTW! just throw the Toiyota in the trash lah..
HAHAHAHA, SAM LOO insertion is so damm kao funny
the 0-100km/h time for the Mazda 6 in the video is wrong I believe..
Nope, it’s true. Mazda6 is much slower than you thought
Actually, the Mazda6 2.6 gets to 100km/h from standstill in 7.9 seconds. And believe it or not, I can testify to that claim. The torque advantage the Mazda6 has over the others really helps it in a straight line.
ford fusion can go 0-100 km/h on 7.5 secs
tested at luar negara ..
Wargh so funneh! It’s just getting better every episodes. Keep up the good job. Well UMW how u feel now?
UMW dont care the Camry and Altis sales anymore. They are focusing on Vios and Hilux
If I was a Honda dealership I will copy this and play and my showroom with subtitles. Loop forever. OR to spite Toyota, play this in front of their shop
Edit:
If I was a Toiyota dealership I will copy this and play and my showroom with subtitles. Loop forever. So that this video can open the eyes of Tai Lan Ngong people that though RV is important than safety features.
So, Accord have pathetic RV is it?
SamLoo never say Honda got no RV.
SamLoo prefer Toyota. But he only deny Kimchi.
It’s ok if you buy Honda, Samloo wont argue.
REAL Samloo never condemn Honda at the first place.
Spot on.
I only love kimchi (Hyundai) owners that buys the cars brand new and sell them off a year later at 50% price
great episode! Fair verdict as well.
Lol…nice one on Sam loo! …. I 40 …pretty impressive … Time for Malaysian to break the honda, toyota trend … It’s a bigger ball game now.
If paultan bring in K5 in this video, all the rest of the car can park far far…far behind!!
Yes the k5 is a no RV car.
Even i drive korean car but k5 will not beat mazda 6 or passat or what so ever, every car has it own pro and con.
But at 145k range, k5 is indeed one of the best value for money option in D-seg market. Reason its not in this review i think because this round they are comparing top-spec of D-seg price at 180k+ which is not K5 target market.
K5 will be numero uno is Resale Value, from the bottom, if the used car fella accepts trade in
Eh idiot, stop talking about resell value already. Your time is a pass already. U buy car to sell or to drive. What a prick man u…. Go and get a life. If u like Toyota so much, shift to Japan and stay in Toyota city. U don’t need to come here and become a clown to everyone. Such a douchebag.
I was Driven to cover that sexy looking Kia Optima K5 which is looks good in D Segment. Kind of let down.
Hahaha. You guys deserve a big-ass round of applause for a season done well. What a way to end the season with the ‘appearance’ of Sam Loo. I LOL-ed when I saw the Hilux wording on his shirt. Great video work and entertainment value.
Maybe Hafriz could be a little more natural with the cameras. Other than that, bravo guys!
i wonder how many times the “Sam Loo” laughed while taking the video…LOL
It is finally out…Good job
Well said.The Honda ‘just” edges out against the Mazda.
Thanks for introducing Sam Loo!! (Although it’s fiction)
Yes, i agreed the Accord is the best D-segment car in Malaysia… So, Mr. Sam Loo, any comment you want to say because they said Camry is most worst, most boring car compare to the i40 Wagon (Kimchi) and Mazda6?? are the RV drops 75% after a year?? HAHAHA…
hahaha psycho Sam Loo is inside the driven. thank god Camry didnt win. Honestly speaking, the car body design looks so stressful, to many sharp edges.
Simple words. Camry is “As Hilux As Sorhai Sam Loo Face”!
omg, Sam69..
Get a Moral Session or Religion.
Mohd bro don’t bother about this butthurt Kimchi fanboy.Accepr the facts lah Kimchi is still miles behind these Sushi cars.
So, accept the fact that this guy is the biggest ignorant who thinks like this.
In other words, Camry ACV40 2.4V is still the best Camry ever made.
Good job man. Well done. At last Honda have won something lol
Best episode yet, mainly due to the Sam Loo parody. Looking forward to the next series. Just a point on the estate version of the Mazda. I thought the main reason for the big price difference compared to the sedan is the difference is the docket price.
Best comparison so far, couldve included the 508 and optima, honda accord is d best no doubt
if they include K5/508, japan sushi junk will hide far far far behind lah…
love this preview
Proton Perdana also D-segment leh. It will be no.1 in this comparison!
lol… are u f*cking kidding me ? lol
I saw much improvement in the review.
Informative, funny, fair, direct and clear.
Very nice. Keep it up!!
should add Peugeot 508GT which same price wit mazda 6 2.5. sure it wil be the winner for fuel efficient n HP & torque and in build quality :)
508 GT nw ony RM189k.
Peugeot??Are you kidding me,no RV and most important K5 and 508 is a junk.Hard to see one around Penang.
Then you should move out from Penang.
if all u wan is rv,then u better go buy a house. a car will never suit u ,even ur overprice toyota.
Sam Loo must be very proud to be featured in this episode. All his efforts in promoting his beloved Toyota finally bear fruits.
NOT !!!!
Fruits which bitter inside it..hahaha..
Looks like Brother Paul did take notice of my postings, and so did the thousands of surfers for used kimchis.
At the rate KIA is devaluating, I may have a business case to trade them soon.
So sam69 and those sorhai tai lan ngong, just hang on for a while
Where the hell is the real Sam Loo ?! I am curious to see how he react to this video ~ hahahaha
Finally he wish come true that he get people attention
Funny how Hafriz mentioned Accord has the most kit. What kit? Isn’t Mazda 6 has the most especially the safety features like brake support?
The Honda has LED headlamps, LaneWatch, Active Noise Control and Active Sound Control (though it’s still rather noisy in there), two colour screens and decent-looking (faux) wood trim, none of which the Mazda has. But yes, the Mazda counters with more airbags, larger wheels and a few extra safety systems.
So….you guys prefer those extra gadget on car rather than extra safety systems?
Sure, if u wanna compare based on spec sheet, no need to drive the car, can just record a video comparing the brochure side by side
Too much safety system may useless sometime.If the car is very controlable,then why we need those airbag.It may cause plenty of money when the airbag jump out.
In term of build quality, Mazda 6 should win the crown. When i sit inside the Accord, it looks plasticity, maybe slightly better than Jetta. Meanwhile when you sit inside the M6, you may feel the solidness and the refinement. It looks better than a Volvo.
eh, no matter how volvo is better ok. MAzda happen to share platform only.
BLIS, City Stop All belongs to volvo friend.
No, you are wrong. Ford already parted with Mazda. The new Mazda Skyactiv does not share any component with Ford/Volvo.
Are u sure the accord is plasticity?I found that the soft touch material are in everywhere inside the accord.
Do you know that Mazda 6 Bose sound system has noise compensation system from a mic? It’s far more advance. Honda lane watch only pop up a video for left side only which is weird. Don’t u think so? Meanwhile Mazda 6 has rear vehicle monitoring for both side with warning lights coming from both sides. Adaptive frontal light system, smart city brake system, high beam control, lane departure warning, high quality trimx etc. How Accord can have more kit is beyond me.
Bro, you a Mazda salesman ka? You seem very adept with the 6’s equipment list, like only a salesman would be :p
I’m familiar with the Mazda’s Bose Noise Compensation system myself and it’s hogwash! It’s still noisy inside, far noisier than it should be.
The Honda’s system may not have a fancy audio brand to shout about but it works the same way. Either way both cars are noise inside so maybe these systems aren’t all they’re hyped up to be.
I am. So? Did I exaggerate on all the equipment list?
lame pitt.
if you can judge a car based on the equipment list we wouldnt need car reviewers. anyone can claim specs can do this and that and this and that…
but when test drive, we find NONE of the supposed benefits.
i think he is definitely a mazda salesman. anyway, honda sound system also has the exact same noise compensation.
The mazda 6 is cramped at the back
and the interior is no different than the CX-5
Mazda build quality is nowhere near Honda’s , even if its CBU from japan..
and the color screen is small , low resolution
in this sense, the Accord feels more premium inside, better dash design , especially at the back, which includes sun blinds
The honda has a better ride, but still depends on driver’s and passenger’s taste..
The honda is cheaper and uses less fuel too
The mazda 6 needs a HMI interior update & revision for it to come up tops..
Mazda6 does have Bose sound system that include digital amplifier which processing :
1. AudioPilot Noise Compensation Technology
2. Centerpoint & SurroundStage signal processing circuitry.
AudioPilot microphone mounted inside the cabin to monitor interior noise level.
Anyone in their right mind will prefer the Lexus ES.
As long as its not a kimchi, you will not need to jump off Masalam
Sam, it is not nice to make fun of what happened at Masalam.
what’s the difference between active noise control & active sound control?
Luckily K5 was not included in the review because it would have had its butt kicked upside down.
Korean cars are nowhere near Jap cars.
I really LOL at ppl who buy korean cars thinking that they got a good deal with 9 airbags and all where in actual fact they r getting an inferior product which still have poor driving dynamics and interior quality.
wait wait wait, you want to be in the video for next series is it? don’t be so desperate la, you can take vids of yourself using your iphone ma.
He is sam loo, same person, maybe too ashamed of himself to use Sam loo to comment as everyone here laughing at him including driven+. But to be fair, he is a real joke here to contribute some additional entertainment here for everyone to laugh at. lol
Even Sam Loo dont dare to use his original name instead he use Sam Loo 2.. LMAO~~~~ He worried so much of his Hilux face!
He is only a junior sales man, talk cock, talk big, talk like he is the taukeh. Pity this guy. We used to work together at Toyota showroom, he was one joker with no integrity. Forgive this uncle lah.
I just trade kimchis (only Hyundai) coz they can be exported to 3rd world countries.
Used car market in Malaysia is dead for KIA, so need to drive trade in price lower for export
Where is the subaru LEGACY? jilaka..
Drive vol 5 feature Sam Lxx. He should rap so to increase entertainment value.
Toyota/UMW should be taught a lesson, their cars (or even senior managements) are so resist to change & self-improve. Every launching of new generation car come with controversial (negative part) design & same technology (if not less), YET the prices hike according to inflation values!
I have a feel that Toyota mngnt is like our elder parents who choose Toyota base on its past glories & … full stop … no arguing pls!
Resale values is a reality that need to be considered but while we’re suffering at it due our own distorted market, it dosen’t affect the the progressive values of Korean cars. Sam Loo is a typical bad example of consumers in our market, good body or dead body all he cares is to take adv of it and being a part of the problems rather than solving the prob.
keyword “past glories” must be liverpool fans ;P oops
Sam Loo got PWNED! :D:D
Hey guys lets be fair abit lah.. The i40 wagon should at least get 2nd place behind Mazda 6. Why no one mentioned that the new Accord looks like the one from the early 2000s? And that there’s no more wishbone suspension upfront?!
How can such blatant cost cutting car gets no 1? The Mazda 6 should be number 1 followed by the i40..
Yup the Camry is a total joke in today’s motoring scene…LOL
Sure, if u wanna compare based on spec sheet, no need to drive the car, can just record a video comparing the brochure side by side
now why dont u guys do a budget car/small car.. viva..myvi..saga..persona..gen-2..or anything that are related just i mentioned..hehee..;)
It would be more awesome if could compare with Volkswagen CC or Passat which could sprint 0 to 100 km/h in 8.5 seconds. But it’s a nice review anyway. I just love this show. Waited every Monday to watch this :D
I would laugh at those Volkswagen owner with their DSG will hailat in the middle on the road.
That’s funny, cause I mostly see Toyota’s broken down at the roadside.
Because out of 2000 Toyota, probably 10 breakdown, but out of 200 VW, 9 breakdown. So more Toyota breakdown la.
should add Peugeot 508GT in this video. sure easily can beat mazda6 2.5. GT better build quality, Nappa leather, gud fuel efficient, more power wit 450 torque. the most awesome luking sport rim. Price just RM189k.
Sat in the back seat of a 508 sedan. It’s so cramp in there. You can’t even put your legs under the front seat and the back seats are quite low too which makes it even worse. Don’t know about the GT though. Most probably the same.
TBH a Saga FLX has more legroom than a 508 sedan. And I’m not exaggerating.
I still doubt if 508 GT really has better built quality? A French car built better than a Japanese car is like Proton are more efficient than the Germans.
Bila nak buat pasal MPV Car. Like exora or etc..
ya maybe k5,sonata should have been included to to level the playing field…that i20 is of a smaller size n segment compare to those 3….
those 19′ on the mazda is an overkill…bt i think the passat wd have been perfect companion size and engineering wise…
The i40 is the same segment as the others in the test, it’s just that it was built for Europeans. And Europeans are usually smaller than Asians.
Har? Europeans are usually smaller than Asians? U sure not?
Some of them are but not all of them
Where is uncle sam?
Why not include the 155k Passat? Better drive, better build, better mileage….. and cheaper!
Because Passat junk no RV and its DSG will easily kwai tai especially at evening rush hour at Penang Bridge.
Exactly la bro, VW = Very Worried, suck balls car for poser who cant afford audi, but wants some fancy shit LED lights. low quality shit bag car
The gearbox is a bomb.I prefer passat is a nice car which is very powerful.But the maintain fee…………!!
Hahhaahhaahahhahahaa samloo. I think i need to go to the loo… anyway. I think the best looking car among all is the Hyundai but damn I have to agree with that rear el-cheapo screen.
well its a good thing SG market i40 doesn’t have such nonsense. Our i40 is fully loaded from the factory, including factory 18″ wheels..
The only local fitted items are the solar films and that dreaded ERP reader …:(
People, better be careful or we might be featured in the next episode.
sam loo in the video… LOLOLOLOL
Sorhai sam69 aka fake guy come to Penang you will see full of Toyota on the road.New Vios is blooming.New Altis is coming soon,looking forward to own one.
the new vios is looking better then the previous one. but still ugly ,like a mad person with their mouth open big, and the new altis also. all new toyota cars’ exterior are look same to me.
and instead of buying altis for 115000+ and above ,i better wait until the mazda 3 is available in malaysia.
new vios when look exactly from behind looks like a fat women terkangkang mau berak
The altis is very expensive!!!And the rear suspension is torshion beam.How can this car sell so expensive
Ya! Accord it memang tumbs up! tapi yang lama tu dah jadi Proton. Tak… tak… nak Proton lagi… kena fikir lama, lama ni, janganX2 proton ambil model ni tukar batch kemudian.
He mention jap cars not camry. Mazda 6, honda accord, nissan teana, toyota camry are all jap cars. And forgot to mention Mazda 6 is CBU from jap so it has pure jap blood. So stop saying people Tai Lang Ngong. You are making yourself looks like Tai Lang Ngong here. Poor sam69 :)
Jap Blood? LOL..I know they are all from japan, but still MOST of them made in Thailand. MOST sushi blood car doesn’t care about your life aka without VSC/Safety features like korean car has. So ppl who buy them actually are Tai Lan Ngong too.
Passat vs peugeot 508 vs camry vs accord vs sonata vs mazda 6 vs mondeo vs kia optima vs teana..rerun with this review please
i think thy should compare more cars in their video. prolong the video to 20+ mins or even 30 mins, we will like it.
brilliant!! the best so far!! :) haha esp for the Sam Loo introduction.. :)
yes,the mazda is the most expensive one. but comes with the most safety features here : i-stop,esp,6 airbags,the most fastest car among those 3.
and Driven ,u forgt to talk about the sensors which located on the rearview mirror …it consist of the sensor for auto braking when the distance between ur car with the front car is close.this is one of the good features tat accord and camry will never have.
don’t think so. An i40 gives 9 airbags. And the sedan i40 is even cheaper than the M6.
compare all the features,specs,material of interior,comfort, then u will know why M6 is expensive.
i’m not deny the quality of i40,but tis is the fact.
i think your speed test is wrong..
bmw320i 0 to 100 in 7.2
mazda 6 = 7.6
accord =7.8
camry = 8.3
i read the us version review with minimal difference on spec.i would say that the speed you state are about the same but camry clocked longer than 8.3 sec.around 8.8 i guess,toyota emphasize on comfort too much.
Why only him? How about the other 2 umw cronies maserati and hilux? Or are the 3 the same person?
Really good job this umw. Altis even we don’t bother compare it to other c segment anymore. Camry everybody know the result already.
Rip umw toyota and all the cronies hired to fake support it.
at 6.40min the two police sana cari makan..?
Hoi, want to buy a Toyota??? Hahaha… What a hilarious episode. And who is Sam Loo?
i40, K5 semua ni TEKSI kat singapore…
So? It is still better than Camry.
Camry, even pasar malam uncle owned them to use as trash collector.
Yup well one taxi company in SG used to have quite a few JDM XCV40 Camries in their inventory, but reliability was poor and the taxis broke down quite often. You can hardly see them on the road these days… In fact that taxi company has closed shop already. Their drivers transfered to NTUC comfort and SMART taxi.
NTUC comfort do deploy approx 10 units of ACV40 Camry Hybrid as taxis. But they’re for evaluation purpose and it never took off. Those 10 units are all they have on the roads right now
So does that mean its reliable and comfortable?
Comfort? yes. Reliability, I dunno…unlike here in mesia, customers r treated like b*ngla. Customers have no choice but to sit in the scary s*ga teksi…
E class is taxi too, so?
Hm, completely ignored the boots of the car? Doesn’t that matter?
The insertion of Sam Loo was brilliant.
It’s a shame that this wasn’t a 2 parter… the VW Passat, Ford Mondeo and Peugeot 508 (perhaps as diesel?) would have spiced things up (especially if the Citroen DS5 had been added too, like in the episode where suddenly a Mini appeared out of nowhere), and you rarely see comparisons between European and Japanese brands in Malaysia. Either reviewers compare the Japanese, or they compare the Europeans. But how do they stack up against each other?
As a premium choice I’d suggest the Skoda Superb. Massive amounts of space, good price, luxurious.
boots space is not a problem. such d-segment big car sure have very large boots space. tis is comment sense ,ok?
It was very informative to know that the Mazda 6 was lacking the zoom with its gearbox. Such a pity, great driving dynamics but a sluggish response drivetrain.
Kind of a mixed bag for the driver really.
The review of the Mazda 6 is a little biased here to be honest. I distinctly remember in their written review they were singing praises about the ride, but now they’re saying in relation to being better than the Hyundai’s, apparently “that’s not saying much”.
As for the response, I’ve driven all 3 cars and can safely say the M6 is NOT as sluggish as claimed. Just because it doesn’t throw you back in the seat like a turbocharged car doesn’t mean it lacks “zoom”. It is responsive, just in a more refined manner. But to each his own I guess. Overall, an amusing video.
Skyactive is tuned to put fuel efficiency as its overriding objective, at the expense of performance. That’s why u really need to floor the pedal for quite some time b4 the gearbox will downshift. Manual override will improve the responsiveness by a little bit, but hardly felt. So skyactive will give u an able chassis but the “heart” has no courage & it is even refusing to try.
It’s quite an exaggeration to say the heart of the M6 has no courage and refuses to try. But we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
How come the 0-100kmh for the Mazda6 is only 9.5? In US reviews, it does 0-60mph (96km/h) in 7.7 secs. Going an extra 4km/h should take around 8 secs tops. Anyways, I gotta agree with the review. I suspect it was the lower price of the Accord that made the difference over the Mazda6.
Ive sat in the Accord before, and have to say the backseats are quite luxurious and deep (leather is very soft). The Mazda6 is just slightly more spacious than a Honda Civic, which is a class lower. And the interior doesnt live up to the exterior. So, yeah, Honda wins it by not being best at anything, but being good at all areas. Like a word champion who only finished 2nd in each race, but no DNF.
Would be nice to see the Suzuki Kizashi being compared to these. Its probably the best handling, even better than the Mazda6.
Kizashi drives well but its no way close to Mazda. My cousin bought one Kizashi and I tried before. My dad’s car is the 6. No fight IMHO.
That was entertaining because of Sam Loo! LOL. However, it would have been more complete to include other D-segment cars such as K5, 508, Passat that are all within similar price range.
I like this one. Sam Loo should be in every episode!
KIA/Hyundai, TATA, Mahindra, Geely, Great Wall all belongs in the same category.
Reviewing them together makes perfect sense
Just like you are equivalent to a patient in tanjung rambutan.
Boss should wear coat in this video. Where is VW Passat?
cmonlah umw and honda malaysia. please give at least 6 airbags for your cars especially for camry and accord. Even preve can give 6 airbags and ESP for all range.
The forgotten child: VW Passat
the best comparison ever. with special apperance, sam loo make me laught sampai pecah perut…heeee
nod bad for this 3 car fuel consumption. mazda6 2.5-13.1km/L, h accord 2.4-12.2km/L and t camry 2.5v-11.0km/L, still ok and efficient, even have big cc.
if mazda6 price slightly lower, i think i will be no.1.
congratulation paultan team member.
Being tech Savvy.
I am getting myself luxury version Toyota Prius.
Spacious, Crash Test = 5 star.
7 air bags.
Traction Control = for running on slippery road.
VSC = for cornering.
So much of torque in this car.
Superb easy running uphill to genting highland.
bonus
= Reverse Camera
= JBL Sound System. 8 channel amplified + 8 speaker
= Best most quiet no engine noise.
Pity that the Prius is not a good looking car, no matter what angle you look at it. Even the cheaper prius c looks better proportioned.
I kind of like it design.
Unique + Modern Dashboard no car can provide.
Pity Sam Loo didn’t register the nick. Now everyone trying to imitate this Sam Loo persona.
After 5 episodes, this is the best episode ever. All presenters had improved significantly and very natural on screen. This episode is quite informative comparing to the other episode (especially the hatch reviews. Come on paul, no one buy a hatch for comfort – A250) Insertion of Sam Loo is epic and extremely funny. Thumbs up for the idea!! Great job guys.
When you rich enough to spend rm200k++ for small premium hatch, come back and tell me you want stiff, loud car, with questionable reliability, despised image of road menace and showoff.
What you want, will be comfort, safety, elegant style, refinement, comprehensive after sales support. A Volvo V40 T5.
Inb4 next season tokmoh cameo as Volvo salesman
nah, if one person can spend money on a sport hatch, they will not give a damn on comfort, or a quiet relaxing car. Hot Hatch means Sporty!!! Lets not take it to the RM200k+ mark, RM100-150k will do. If one passionate for hatches, they will go for a hyundai veloster, satria neo, or the focus hatch S+ rather than civic, camry or even the accord.
its because hatch lovers like us love hatches. looking for comfort nice sweet ride? sport hatches isn’t for you.
regarding people who can afford RM200k+ will only looking for comfort then you are wrong.
For me, i personally will go for a renault megane R.S 265 but i couldn’t afford it, so waiting for the new 1.6 turbo veloster to launch. =(
its funny you dont even mention the peugeot 208 gti in your list of cars that dont even drive all that well
I am making a point, do i needed to mention all the hatches for a single point?
Want sports but too pussy cannot drive manual meh? A-class, golf, 1series all auto, dafuq, damn poser bapok dunno drive manual, kills the fun and point of going sporty la wei.
Sporty should give more control to the driver, no matter how good the torque converter or twin clutch, it can never match freedom granted by manual. Period.
So yes I agree, if want performance, only consideration is Megane RS265, Focus ST, any other as long as must be proper MANUAL gearbox.
So if dun want drive manual, stop pretending. Don’t get Merc, BMW, VW. They’re not sporty enough, nor comfortable enough.
Just get the Volvo. With that sexy arse, might be able to pickup some ang moh chicks. And she’ll be impressed cuz she no need ride in tow truck cuz no DSG to break down.
TO SAM LOO : NOT A SINGLE FXXK WAS GIVEN
TQVM
another K5 owner shown the broomstick barking here
How about u, sam? You are just the pure brainless idiot that everyone sees.
You guys should read this as well.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1212_2012_2013_midsize_sedan_comparison/
It’s not always the quantity.
Quality = customer trust + customer satisfy.
This make the sales chart.
should have added Ford Mondeo and VW Passat cc
how come no mention of passat?
Don’t want, scared DSG
“The Toyota is in the same league as Bentley, Rolls Royce and Jaguar…”
The same league?! OMG!!
SamShowedMeTheHilux, are stupid or something…
“Those who have achieved real success through hard work always go for either Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar or Toyota. And more specific, a Camry or a Crown.”
SamShowedMeTheHilux, you’d get a Toyota for being successful?! You do have VERY LOW STANDARDS in life, are you..
what about camry 2.0 and accord 2.0?are they underpower?i wonder if u guys can help me choosing between civic 2.0s and accord 2.0 vti-L..which one is better?i am going to buy it soon..
How about considering a Toyota Prius? A Luxury version which costs RM145k now only costs RM 136k because of year end promotions.
You get awesome fuel economy without sacrificing power. You’re also doing a part to promote eco-conscious and green things in Malaysia. The dashboard design is quite cool too. JBL speakers with 7 airbags,ESC,TC and Hill Assist are a bonus.
Plus it’s a CBU from Japan! Better than an Accord or a Civic which is made in Melaka.
And I’m no salesman. :D
lol are you kidding, these cars for chauffeuring? more for rubbish collection i suppose
haha.. that harvinder guy sure is funny.. hope you guys will be back for a new season fast.
This is by far the best episode… really enjoyed it so much! That Sam Loo cameo really make lol’d hard…
Btw… stop making stupid people famous…
Comparing the C segment 3 series and C class with the D segment Lexus? nice try noobs. Dont even dare to pick on same segment fight ar? Lexus the over priced toyota.
No wonder so many bosses including my boss also end up from the old camry to the new camry. upgrade from a Camry to a Camry. What is that upgrade? i wonder. And surprising Camry fails in the fuel efficiency department, also comfort department. So sad, Later you bring in Passat, and K5, again the Camry will fall short again.
Anthony lim is an uncle lim oh, no wonder Lexus loh. very obvious choice. Pay through your nose for a even more cut throat Camry.
Now I40 comes with a GDI engine, so when will NAZA bring GDI in? Maybe they wanna keep the price low and maintain the MPI engine.
But i am never a fan of Hyundai, probably because of Sime Darby, But KIA, for its price, its ok.
To the boys who did this episode, you should not have added the i40 but the Sonata 2.4 instead because you are comparing cars that are targeted primarily towards the North American and general markets (not including European market).
In Europe, the Accord Euro is sold instead of Accord; the i40 instead of Sonata; and the Avensis instead of Camry. However, the Mazda6 is sold worldwide.
Just my 2 sen :)
and kudos to you boys for making this episode lively with “Sam Loo” included :D
Hahahahaha what can I say?! Thumbs up to ‘Sam Loo’! Well, it is quite expected Honda will be the best among the three Sushi. However, with the introduction of the rebadged-Accord by Proton, I would rather go for the Mazda. The new Camry is such a huge disappointment and I’ve no idea from where did they come up with such a design? I personally prefer the former generation than the latter. Nevertheless, it is undeniable that the Camry feels solid and good to be in. Tough competition though.
I like the most in this video is “if kimchi car give me free also I don’t want”
Only if its Elantra and Sonata
you guys never stop improving… and this one is worth a million thumbs up! great video! keep it up!
Hi all, I’m new here.
I have learn some”thing” or some”word” in Paultan forum web site since last month.
Some”thing” is Sam Loo
Some”word” are Sushi , kimchi, RV and Sorhai Tai Lan Gong.
To all paultan members who make the 5 DRIVEN episode.
“Salute”
Clap clap clap clap clap clap !!!!
Well done & stunning & hilarious.
Love watching….thank you all for making such fantastic automotive video ever in Malaysia.
Good Job!
You do have a fair review on different marques, much alike to what I have in mind, especially the Esp 3 hot hatches. Tested the same three hatches over a weekend, and I do have the same conclusion, minus the Bavarian.
Keep it up! Merry Xmas & a Blessed Happy New Year!
To all Toyota bashers, I don’t blame u for bashing their safety spec, aging drive train, dull look. Personality I felt it too, and how I wish for improvement. Aside fr reliability, durability, RV & ease of locating a spare part, there’s 1 thing I thk worthy of compliment for toyota. It’s the sales attitude and after sales service. I’m looking for my first car few yrs back and my 1st choice is honda city. I still rmb when i entered the sales gallery full of standing salesman & salesgirl, nobody gives me a stare and not bother to serve me. I hang ard for 10 mins, looking stupid and nothg changed. (Maybe I looked too poor to own a Honda). The next day I visited Toyota, and it’s a total different scenario. I was greeted on the door by an uncle salesman (looks so much diff than the Sam loo in the video), wf smiling n friendly attitude. Even the aunty serving coffee looks so pleasant. Its the hospitality tat made all the difference. Yes they give awful specs with least safety. I’ll nvr object tat. Pls dun bash me as it’s my personal opinion.
Have you been to Lexus show room? No other car company can even close to them. I don’t know about RR and Bentley of course.
Toyota = Damansara Height, Bangsar Tmn Tun, D.Jaya – V Good RV
Honda = Kepong, Cheras – Good RV
Mazda = Puchong Bt 15
Kimchi = Bkt Beruntong.
K5 = Tanjung Sepat.
Anthony, are you really that old?
No, I’m actually 25, but you know the camera, adds 20 years to your face. LOL! Hahaha, yeah, I’m ancient, having driven the Peugeot 205 GTi and Fiat Ritmo Abarth 130TC when they were new cars!
i love old men, they are like wine
Penny wise Pound foolish.
Your saving few cents on fuel but losses thousand in RV. The downpayment for your next car. The more d/p you have the more you save on interest. Camry the clear winner.
Talks very much about not going for RV. When trading in, less RM500 also want to bargain, press salesmen to offer and have to drive few a-round to get the best few hundreds more.
Try selling your car after 5 years. Your Kimchi will be all down the drain. Still keeping your car after 5 years. Look at your repair cost and repayment for 7-9 years loan.
was danny tan sam loo?
Yes, that was Danny Tan. 90% good impression of Sam Loo.
Except deduct 10% cuz he using what looks like kimchi phone. Real Sam Loo sure use ifag cuz high RV.
Nice video with Sam Loo cameo.
Accord maybe the best but later will become new Perdana..
Was expecting Sam Loo to be slightly older and rounder, nonetheless cool vid!
virtually a punch to sam loo’s face…. Ouch!
Best episode of the series so far!!Kudos to you guys! I was roflmao. Thumbs up if you watched more than once just to see “Sam Loo”.
Ini Kali Beli Lexus la.
Ada Kelas.
Just wondering why the VW passat was left out? Since you guys showed the 3 series and the lexsus as the step up.
If for company cars…. that’s always a NISSAN!
maybe in future driven episode we can see mondeo vs passat vs 508 or maybe legacy
To Paul, Harv and gang, great job on the new season. Like the new editing/format style… Top Gearish in a good way.
I guess with all the (non Sam Loo) comment, it’s quite clear that an European/American D segment review should seriously be considered. Even a wagon comparison would be interesting with automakers now bringing it back into the market.
Another segment that you may consider is perhaps a review on best used car in the market, with an emphasis on value-for-money and maintenanace.
Cant wait for the next season!
Also, the moment I spotted the ah beng in the Hilux t-shirt behind Jon…. cracked up laughing! It was legen… wait for it…. ;)
At last, we all know Sam Loo is part of Paul Tan org that’s why always commenting on the blog…. anyway not bad.
Logical upgrade for Camry to Lexus ES250 … good one
hello… they said its fake/parody la…
Did you study in Uitm or Mara? Because it clearly shows. I am not part of Paul Tan’s organisation lah!
Fake Fella
compare to Nissan Teana, Hyundai Sonata YF, Kia K5 or Passat..?
or maybe all of it loose to those 4 cars?
btw, Sam Loo really annoying even the paultan.org members.. eat that, LoL
Wow, its now a reality that my presence has influenced the Malaysian Car Owners and reinforced the fact that Korean Cars (Hyundai) has low resale value and KIA can no longer be traded in
You are lying thru your nose wor. My colleague just traded in his 3 yr old KIA forte for 48.5k.
Liar liar pants on fire!
Well, as long that there are tai lan ngong sorhais buying Hyundai, boss Sam will pay us big bonuses.
2nd batch of Hyundai just went out the country last week, looks like we will have a really good CNY ang pow.
Thanks to all Hyundai owners. Will thank KIA owners when the boss agrees to take in KIAs
good seeing u being so sarcastic towards Sam Loo… hahahahaaa
nice presentation. that new honda accord looks stunning.
Great job with the review guys. The (purely fictitious character) Sam Loo cameo was hilarious. Looking forward to more videos.
Really great video with the infamous Sam Loo show up ! LOL!
Thank You.
But the stage Sam Loo looks so nerdy.
Fair verdict, thou my favorite is in 2nd, my most sensible is at 1st. The I40 is a great car, it still look great thou and it certainly feels special/unique in Malaysia. but my time with it in KLIMS didn’t leave a good impression with the sitting position and button layout.
And as for the Lexus, weirdly the Koreans dig the Lexus as it is the 2nd most succesful import car after BMW. Sorry Sam Loo, there’s little love for Korean’s 2013 COTY.
I have seen many passat owners than camry nowadays. There are too many VW owners nowadays
Good job guys, the standard of your video is improving and the judgings are quite professional too…
Good review guys. Agreed with the result. However just for your future DRIVEN series (if still got sponsor hehe) I would recommend u to go into details according to segment. Like for D segment, ppl are looking for comfort, suspension at the back, noise and premium spec. Tell us more on the comfort level, cruising etc. C-segment would be different aspects. Just my 2cents
Everyone left the scene when Sam (the Hailat) Loo appeared. Damn funny. hahahaha
I havea Citroen C5 and IMO a Ford Mondeo or a C5 is better than these Japanese cars depending on what you are looking for. Power or comfort.
DANNY TAN, YOU ROCK!!!!!!!!!! LOL…….finally, thanks Paul Tan for making my wish come true….not exactly the way I want, but it’s wwwaaaayyyy more hillarious!!! Sam Loo is definitely THE LEGEND here already!!
I do hope you guys can make more episodes, but well……there’s always next time!
Well done again guys!! Sam Loo inclusion is touch of genius. Anyway Hafriz, i would really like to know which of these three cars has the quietest / relax cabin in various operating environments (city/highway driving)? Thanks
Thanks for the kind words :).
Overall, the most comfortable cabin is the new Accord’s (best ride comfort and seats), though the Camry is still a pinch quieter. The Mazda is the hardest riding and noisiest of the bunch, mostly due to the silly (but absolutely gorgeous) 19-inch wheels.
Thanks. Good luck and keep up the good works.
Hi Hafriz,
Agreed with most readers that you should compare with the Hyundai Sonata (i45) as its sedan vs sedan and also 2.4 range.
As for the Lexus ES, to be honest, had been eyeing on that car for a next change but torn between that and the VW CC. If you guys planning to do a review of that price range, please consider these cars.
May I suggest that for future car comparison in Driven, can you include the interior sound test which is similar to the test done comparing the old vs new vios? This should be done when cruising at 110km/h on the highway. This will give your readers a better idea on the sound insulation of each car.
Keep up the good work and best regards to all.
Lexus Luxury comes with peace of mind on durability, reliability and Resale Value.
If its a BMW/Benz/Audi, maintenance nightmare starts after 40,000kms
For kimchis, it it not only associated with low RV, but also tow truck operators
Episode 6 will feature K5, Sonata, Geely Emgrand, TaTa Indigo together. That will complete the review end to end, apple with apple
Why don’t Camry compare to 1996 optima. Its the same age and level. It has nothing what we call technology. A real people who knows car will know what is better. Only people like sam loo don’t have any knowledge and full stomach of ego.
Camly can compare with stone age cars like datsun 120y, ford cortina and 1986 proton saga together. That will make the review apple to apple.
Should compare with all the old boring cars around.
2012 Sonata is worth as much as a 2005 Camry
What does that tell you?
It tells you that Camry is a piece of crap. No money to buy other than Toyota, sad to hear that. I think u really have no knowledge in cars. Poor thing. I think the kindergarten kids know better than you.
It tells you that the ACV50 model is too pricey for the specs.
However, most companies with CFO/CEO’s that have better education than the people that did the review will opt for the Camry, as it will have a much lower TCO than the rest
Also, ACV50, being locally assembled by UMW is just nowhere equal to ACV40 that was imported from Thailand. Suspension used for the local ACV50 is too soft compared with the Thailand ACV50
hehehehe…gud episode, almost fell of the chair laughing..that Sam Loo, whoever the real guy is …his a cult fav!
Sam dem lansi today after being famous.
He asked his gurkha guard to stop me coming into his yard 50m meters before reaching.
I really jialat liao this time, can’t get rid of my K5 to get the new Accord
very nice video . keep it up . you guys did a very good job to help us malaysian to find and to know the best cars in their classes .
Well , to mr. samshowedmethehilux. .
why you are so arrogant ? if i got 20mill jackpot money , i would rather buy a private jet than buying a toyota camry . come on lah ,
Sam Loo to Paultan/Driven is like the Stig to Top Gear….. Absolutely brilliant, Joker Card for the show!
I think Driven trying to mimic Top Gear but the SAM Loo is hilarious. It would be good to add in more technical review which include these:
1) compare the drive in auto and semi auto modes
2) compare the cornering dynamics
3) brake feel and balance
4) acceleration and distance to stop
5) reliability and weight distribution
6) attractiveness
7) innovation
8) differentiation btw each car
Good luck..
And they have left the most important bit, Resale Value of the Camry, Accord and Mazda 6 based on track record
Resale value is not important anymore. My goodness, move on.
Revealing of trade in value is where most people gets a stroke.
TCO is the most important element of car ownership
I’m a new Camry owner, ‘upgraded’ from old Camry. Kinda regretted the purchase, should have gotten the Passat. The drive is superb, handling awesome compared to my new Camry. Passat is a conservative looking car but a monster under its hood. Was surprise it is a chick magnet after some of my gal pals kept complimenting the Passat at a traffic stop. Seems to be driven by younger men now compared to an “Uncle” in a Camry.
Passat is so plain and even more uncle than Camry, plus you will need to pay RM650 for the 1st service alone, plus the nightmare of the DSG.
Most importantly, when you sell 2 years later, OMG, 50% of purchase price will be lost
Hi there. 2011 Camry 2.4 RM 119,000
New Camry 2.4(2011) RM 170,000
170-119/170 x 100% = 30% loss
2011 Passat RM 125,000
New Passat RM 180,000
180-125/180 x 100% = approximately 30 %
So,it’s not 50 % of the purchase price. Get your facts right. I noticed that the RV of toyota and volkswagen almost the same :)
Agree with you. Sam loo is a pure idiot and don’t have any facts.
Trade in Value vs used car value for kimchi is around 40% gap. Its because used car dealer take a high risk of these cabbages taking a cliff edge devaluation, like the rupee and rupiah recently.
So, if the advertised price of a 2011 Sonata is RM90k, trade in price will be around RM54k
LOL someone does not know anything about conti service vs mileage. and only buy a car for RV. Car is all about safety, ride and handling, and not about resale value in 2 years lol.
“woiiiii…. want to buy toyota?” LOL…
I own a Passat 1.8 tsi Sportsline (CBU) as well as a Polo 1.2 tsi. Both are great cars …. Powerful and fuel economic. Yes, encountered the DSG problem with the Polo and rectified during the recall session. It’s really fun driving machines …. And at very competitive pricing as compared to those overpriced Japanese brands
Once you drive a continental car, you will never go back for a Japanese or Korean brand. VW comes with low cc but high hp and torque machines … having very good pick up. The thrill is something you will not get in a same class Japanese and/or Korean brand. German technology and engineering is superior. Just my personal opinion as I used to owned Honda and Toyota before.
Hello Hafriz :) If not my mistaken,I thought the honda accord has mic which lowers the frequency of noise to provide a quiet ride? It’s that true? Thank you :)
Yes, the Accord does have such a system, and so does the Mazda6. Funnily enough, we found that they are both noisier inside compared to the Camry, which doesn’t.
So bro, if you are the Managing Director of CEO of a SME whereby Benz and BMW are ruled out, would you not go for a Camry as the company vehicle of choice?
Hi sam69,
For now, I will go for accord 2.4. Camry and accord are both nice car, but Camry will bit boring. Just my own opinion
Either the Accord or Camry will be a great choice, if you choose to buy brand new.
If you choose pre-owned, a kimchi would give you a great bargain, especially K5
Those who bash Japan cars are the same vile lunatics that parade on Apple’s sales. Trying every means to justify purchasing weaker
Korean brand names of lower prestige – Samsung, LG Hyundai, Kia. A lot of theseanti-japanese comments are fueled by racism and the addiction to korean entertainment rather than a logical automotive opinion. Apple and Toyota commands a premium for their history in respective fields.
Something Samsung and Hyundai has NEVER achieved.
Where is Samsung when it comes to build quality and design? Oh, that’s right a 1billion law suit for shameless copy, piss poor plastic at high prices, dishonourable warranty and awful firmware support for lower end models. Compare that with
Apple’s complete ecosystem, quality screened apps, high build quality, iconic designs and fantastic customer service.
Same with Hyundai. The koreans couldn’t design a car to save their lives. That’s why a Caucasian was hired to do the job at Hyundai. So, technically these aren’t Korean designed cars at all. And if they can’t design one, they’ll rip them off like they did with the 7th gen Civic to Kia Forte. Real Korean designs are the god awful days of Daewoo, Sanyong, and granny looking hyundais. Great for kim jong ill, i’m sure. Go visit South Korea and you’ll witness even more
blatant Japanese ripoffs from Korean Hello Kitty merchandise (*called KITTY KITTY) to beverages Calbee, Pocky all used without license.
Japan has a century history of distinctive automotive design. While beauty is subjective,
most would agree JDM has churned tons of great looking coupes, sport vehicles, and daily drivers over the decades before hyundai was even born.
Back to Toyota-hyundai – where are the high tech class leading hybrids like Prius?
Heavy weight reliable pick up trucks, Hilux? Luxury division like Lexus that has earned
top ranks in JD Power and Consumer Reports year after year? Reliability, decent resale value, accessible spare parts? I could go on and on.
But i think you get the point. Brands like Toyota and Apple exists and commands a higher premium even if it comes with fewer accessories for a reason. Hyundai and Samsung make up for their deficits by offering a few more airbags or tech gimmicks in their overall piss poor products to overcompensate for their weaknesses.
If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. Buy your favourite ‘KOREAN’ designed JUNK. Migrate to a 1st world country where you can finally ride a continental luxury under $80k. Don’t go flaming the brands and forcing others to boycott them. It’s bad enough these korean pop loving morons rave about korean cars. To see the need to inflict personal tastes on others to validate their purchase is beyond pathetic. Oh, and Pegeout is god awful.
SK Lee “German technology and engineering is superior.”
Lol, typical inferior complex chinaman. Always thinking whatever a white man makes must be better. Yes, that’s why Japan is still leading the world in dSLRs, Bluray, 4k resolutions, IGZO displays. Oh, where are the german electronic brands? LOL, worse than even Koreans.
Yes, German makes are superior in LOW RELIABILITY, POOR HYBRID TECH, HIGH FUEL CONSUMPTION compared to Japanese brands. Handling? Try the GT86 or even the LXS series that has been getting rave reviews. Worth to note that Japan is also richer than all European countries. Ouch. That must hurt lol
boy u are really serious
I m planning to buy a car within 2 mths . My 2 favorites is the VW passat and the accord 2.4. Please advice on the pro and cons. VW great car to drive but may only be driveable 10 mths a year. Accord less exciting drive but more reliable.
Home town is in kedah planning to do a lot of outstation travel also